Batusalen
Batusalen
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289897#Comment_3289897
So you want to camp your gens, not commit to chases and when all the gens are regressed you want to be able to then start the chase. If that doesn't work, you would just return and regress all gens again.
Basically you want killers to win if they are good enough to eventually win or at least to never loose, because they could hold the game hostage.
This is killer holding the game hostage. Very unhealthy for the game. It's the same thing as survivors hiding in obscure parts of map not working on generator. Bad for a game.
Survivors should be able to always progress gens, but it should take long enough for killer to be able to go for chases and if he succeeds at them, he will win (and if he fails those chases, he should loose instead of holding it forever).
And that is precisely the problem, even when the killer go for a chase, success or not and more so if he commits to it, he is losing. In fact and as I said, he is losing whenever he commit to the chase or if he decide to camp the gens, as someone would just tap the gen and undo the kicking the moment he just turn around.
And you are making a lot of assumptions here. There is 7 generators at the start of the game, because one or two were incapacitated won't take the game hostage, just force survivors to not gangbang one generator until is done and have to move to the next or waste time by waiting close to the one you just broke down (in fact, would help with the 3 gen "hostage" situation as the killer would have the opportunity to not care about the gens for a short time and go for the chasing instead of only having the safe and good option of patrolling them). And my other suggestion, the start-up time, technically would make repair times longer as you say with the added benefit of preventing the "tap and hide", also giving killers the possibility to commit even more to chasing survivors and not having to drop it after 20 seconds because "sure they are repairing that almost done gen again" and having to go kicking it for the 5º time to gain a couple of seconds more.
So what I want is precisely to be able to commit to survivors chases and not having to scare them off the same gens every 5 seconds, so I don't fully understand what is your complain here.
BTW, "you want killers to win if they are good enough to eventually win" lol yeah, I want killers good enough to win win and not lose because survivors abuse game mechanics... crazy, I know.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289244#Comment_3289244
It can really add up if they keep trying to stop the regression you can take 10% off in a very short time if they keep tapping it.
As @Simfeliz said you would only be wasting time, get grounded to that one generator and the moment you start chasing one of the survivors they will only keep fixing it or just tap to stop regression and go elsewhere,and before you know it 2-3 gens done or almost done. In fact, when I started playing I didn't even notice kicking the gen removed progress until I saw it was something they added in the last patch.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289370#Comment_3289370
gen rushing isnt a problem. How come i win almost all matches with meme perks? even when survivors run BNP? its all about the perks you choose, killer map (plays some part sure) but most importantly HOW YOU CHASE... You need to choose your chases wisely if a survior is really good DONT CHASE THEM. If you dont get a hit or pallet within 15 - 20 sec you've mad a mistake... (unless its like shack). Record your gameplay take time to analyze it what did you do wrong? what did the survivors do right? etc... You know when i started playing brand new parts INSTANTLY finished a generator so you could have 4 generators done before you even start your first chase THATS GEN RUSHING SURE!!! but you chasing a survivor for 2 minutes isnt gen rushing
https://youtu.be/q69cj8pKXRU take a look yourself
I agree, chasing a survivor for 2 minutes isn't gen rushing... now, explain to me how that is relevant or contradicts what I'm saying.
Again, gen rushing isn't a thing (didn't we agree on that? Now you say it is a thing, but not a problem?), what is a thing and it is the core to much of the things survivors and killers complain alike is what the game allow survivors do and abuse which leads to the previously mentioned situations (one of the big ones, if not the biggest there is right now, again, is what I already said many times including my first comment and a post I made earlier) , which forces killers to tunnel to get a survivor out of the picture as soon as posible, force them to slug them if they can't reach a hook because it is better to have them bleeding on the ground and lose points if they don't get back up that making you lose more time, and unless you can do any of this things forces you to keep an eye on the generators and hope you get an easy kill instead of going after the survivors because every second a generator get progress is a second you are more close to lose, which again, leads to lose / lose situations for the killer the majority of the time, including what people call "gen rushing".
And all you said about "what makes a good killer" is true and that's how it has to be in theory (again, Iridescent Rank 1 killer here! I didn't get it by not getting people in loops!)... that doesn't mean the game isn't unbalanced by design, and the way the game works right now all the pressure and all the odds are against the killer. And all of this without taking in count perks, tools and map generation, which only makes things worst and/or directly allows survivors to nullify killers good doing.
And answering your question, you won most of your games the same I won most of mine: Not all players are good, not all players have the right build, not all the players are coordinated full SWF with voice talk, and all players sooner or later will make a mistake no matter how skillful they are. This doesn't means that there isn't core game mechanics that maybe worked fine in the past, but right now only let survivors abuse them and get an unfair advantage. And just for the sake of being on-topic, @BlueHorkew suggestion would only exacerbate the problems he wants to fix with it.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289333#Comment_3289333
However if you feel like youre being "gen rushed" there is somethings you can do
(old) but should still be somewhat relevant
(old) should be somewhat relevant
(old) mostly relevant
(old videos but still pretty relevant)
Thanks for the videos, it's always good to learn for more experienced people... but it doesn't change my point 🤣
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Double post... 😓
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@BlueHorkew said:
The big problem that want bhvr to solve is to make the games more consistent.
As killer no body likes to get two hooks and you are already in last 2 gens, or a gen across the map that gets done before you could go there and stop it because survivors had toolboxes and prove ad stuff like that. It removes gameplay for both, just stresses the killer because it seems like you running against time its awful.
But what has become more pronounced with the new killer meta, is that the killer keeps the game in a hostage mode, constantly patrolling the same gens and using its perks in a war of attrition. Making the game last for way too long and no one is advancing, there are no hooks or gens being done.
And for people saying that its impossible, there is a new video from Hens where he purposely did a 3 gen strat on dead dawg with the Knight. Result, the server shutdown because it went over the 60 minute timer. No survivor was killed, just 50 mins of a stalemate
But that's only another symptom of the same desease: Why I would try to go chase someone, even less with just 1 gen to go, when that is giving them the chance to start a gen with me not being able to stop them to be repaired even for a second? Even if two survivors are left, the moment I chase one the other would repair, I stop the chase, patrol gens, see one is being repaired, kick it, and again, the lose / lose situation: Go search for the one I was chasing and give the one that is probably hiding close to the gen to keep repairing, or stay, search around the gen, find and chase the one hiding, pray he doesn't tap the gen in his run away, and while all this is happening give the other survivor the chance to start repairing other gen or come to the one I was and continue repairing, either way is back to the same situation as before... hell no, if I get to have 3 close up gen I will keep patroling them even if I see a survivor in the distance, and if they make a mistake and I'm able to hook them great, if not, 1 hour game and I didn't win, but I didn't lose either.
It's shifting the pressure back to the survivors and is the smart thing to do and because how the game works right now, it's the only safe choice to make for the killer here. Even if I wanted to go after someone in that situation, doing it would only give them a chance to win. This is also the reason perks like CoB is so much used, because it give me the option to not having to care about the gens for a while at least.
That's why your suggestion, at least for itself, won't work: You would only make them do all the tactics and game mechanics abuse that makes killers believe they are being "gen rush" longer, not punish survivors for not being smart and repair close up gens first, and making even more a necessity for the killer to just guard the last 3 gens as now they would do them a lot faster so I can't take an eye out of them in any moment as every second I let them repair would punish me more and more.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289333#Comment_3289333
Gen rushing well isnt a thing. I mean sure if survivors bring bnp and Commodious maybe. But doing gens isnt gen rushing its doing the objective... There are also perks to prevent that eruption, pain res, surge. You can also 3 gen or try to get a 3 gen, run no way out...
Its a skill issue not a game issue killers have already recieved buffs compared. Its not even fun to play killer anymore because its way too easy...
Doing gens isn't gen rushing, getting two or more people to one gen and putting the killer in a lose / lose situation over and over until a gen is done is "gen rushing", as you would be able to complete / advance 2 or 3 generators at the same time while the killer only option is "lose time in a chase the guy with 150% speed and second chances perks or lose time camping a gen and try to catch the guy who only need less of a second to undo the kicking". And while this is less of a problem with a less coordinates group, mix this with 3-4 SWF squad with voicetalk and as a Rank 1 Iridescent killer I can guarantee you that you would be lucky to be able to facecamp one as a consolation price before they just go through the exit gates.
Again, what people perceive as "gen rushing" is just a symptom of how the game mechanics allow survivors to put killers in a situation where all the options are bad for him. And when this happens is when killers usually resort to things like facecamping and tunneling and survivors get mad at him. It's not easy to play killer, is frustrating, and you either play against a SoloQ "hero squad" where 3 people get around a hook and you kill them in one go, or the moment you play agains a 3-4 coordinated SWF you can say thanks if you can kill someone.
So, again, I don't think @BlueHorkew suggestion would really solve the problems, but BHVR need to look deeply in the "gen rush" problem without doubt.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/357381/gen-speed-sugestion
gen rushing isnt a thing... Then we would just hide at the start... 3 gen can be prevented by survivors in 99.9% of the cases so everything here is skill issue
Gen rushing is a thing, but despite what people think it is just a symptom, not the disease. The real problem is there isn't anything you can really do to stop someone to just keep fixing and fixing the same gen without losing a lot of time: Kick it, survivor get away. Chase him, the moment you aren't looking other survivor will come and at minimum stop the regression. Camp it, and then you are letting the others to just do whatever they want while you are trying to hunt one guy. Are you a survivor alone in one gen? Loop the killer and just tap the broken gen before you keep running, forcing the killer to stop to kick it again or keep losing time with you.
@BlueHorkew said:
So what if gen speeds started slower at the beginning and became faster the longer a match goes on.
Basically trying to nerf early gen rush and holding the game hostage/ 3 gens
Would that concept be good for the game or bad?
So even if I don't think it is a bad idea (any survivor nerf is welcome) this won't really stop "gen rushing", it would more than probably just make it more painfully slow and not punish survivors for letting the killer have the most close up, easy to patrol gens.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
Gen tapping was already nerfed with a base instant gen regression on kicks that was added
A 2.5% progression lost is nothing, and the problem is the fact that a survivor needs less of a second to stop the regression, not the amount of progress loss itself.