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@Steakdabait said:
39% escapel rate.
Which means 2k with ocassional 3k for killers if we distribute the survivors killed across all games. As killers MMR only go up with more than 2 survivors dead because how it works, killers are doing just fine.
Stop throwing the 61% killrate without even understanding it as an argument, please.
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And do the same with killer's offerings, please!
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Because as many things survivors complain in this forum, you can not limit the way others play to win because you don't like it or it is frustrating to you.
If they have 4 flashlights, use Lightborn or do proxy camping / slugging when you down someone so they can't go for the save.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307301#Comment_3307301
The comment was about multiplayer games and I gave an example where bullying/griefing is not possible and to succeed takes skill alone. Sportsmanship and skill in a nutshell. Why else would you play a multiplayer game? You can grief and bully in DBD, though. That's the problem. And it doesn't even take skill.
As far as META vs solo queue, there are a lot of ways to skin that cat. Knockout and Third Seal is a META build against Solos if you want to win and grief in the process.
Why else would you play a competitive multiplayer game? To compete and try to win, simple as that. Again, you are doing a false correlation between two games that has nothing to do with each other in any way.
And I don't know what you understand by "meta" and griefing, but using perks that aren't the ones that allow to play the most efficient and competitive way possible (hence, the most used perks) or just having a synergy that can be frustrating to play against are either of those things. And dude, TTS is an hex, you can literally turn it off.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307096#Comment_3307096
I play Fortnite as well and the complaint I have here doesn't exist there. It doesn't have anything equivalent to bully squads or slugging against Solos (with the benefit/crutch of perks) because skill can still allow you a way out and the only way to overwhelm an opponent is with said skill. DBD is not like that. Perks and depending on whether or not Survivors are on comms makes the difference.
The complain don't exist there for the simple reason of Fortnite not being an asymmetrical game, meaning all players have the sames tools to win and objectives to complete, and you have literally a mode where every player is a solo. Not only that, but you are comparing DbD to a game that doesn't even have perk loadouts (to be fair technically now it has, but they are randomly given through the match and the impact of those "perks" are not comparable to the ones in DbD). So, I don't get what point you are trying to make, much less taking in count the context behind my answer to you.
Either way, you are not only complaining about an specific no-meta perk loadout that I have yet to see in game, but claiming that anybody that uses it should be ban without even give reasons of why it is such a problem. No, just no.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306911#Comment_3306911
Again. 60% kr is 60% wr. At least by MMR. But also from surv perspective and win perspective (2k being rare outcome). So no. Killers are OP and it shows. And it's not just soloQ. It's killers overall
No, it is not 60% winrate for the killer for the simple reason a killer needs at least 3k for it to count positive toward MMR. The "1v1/1/1/1" only works for the survivors as it doesn't matter if their teammates survives or not, if you can escape you have "won" against the killer and are awarded positive MMR. For the killers, the MMR at the end of the match would be the sum of all the kills or escapes, so doing a 1k or 2k in a game is not a win. But let's do the math again:
100 games = 400 survivors, 60% = 240 survivors killed. Being generous and saying all killers did a 4k in 50% of their games, that would be 200 survivors, meaning the last 40 survivor in the other 50 games would be "0.8 survivors" killed per game, meaning 0 to 1k in all that other games. In fact, 240 survivors in 100 games are 2,4 survivors, so, 2k in most games with 3k occasionally in the best hypothetical case.
Of course, and again, this is without even considering against who the killer got those kills. Were they in a SWF? Were they using metaperks? Were they pilling on a hook to do try to pull off an almost impossible save instead of doing gens? We don't know, because BHVR never said under what circumstances those kills happened, just that they at last succeeded in take the average killrates of killers to the point they wanted.
But hey, at least I'm happy you finally recognized that your true interest is to nerf killers as you think they are OP and not really balancing the game. Again, if SoloQ players are in so much disadvantage compared to SWF, give them the advantages SWF have, and then make changes to both sides to balance the current meta taking in count the most competitive way of playing as it is how it should be done.
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Killers being able to chase survivors is OP, nerf it.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306160#Comment_3306160
I see you live pre-patch 6.1. As was proven by Hens. You can hold 3gen until server shuts down and survivors get auto-sacrificed. It just works now with 4 regression perks. Especially against solo players. The only possibility for this to NOT be true, is taking 4 BNP's and proof and all the other genrush things. Then sure - killer can't hold his 3gen. Otherwise it's always killers that hold all the cards.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306245#Comment_3306245
60% kill rate. Today I played 15 games. I got out 3 times. In 4man SWF where average hours are about 3000. Sure killers have very hard time. They stand no chance at all. Especially soloQ outperfoms it all.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306201#Comment_3306201
I play more killer then survivor, because soloQ sucks so hard right now I refuse to play it ever. For a very strong 3gen - you can play saloon, haddonfield - main, one touching the main just outside it and 2 gen-spawns a bit farther in the open (I have never seen less then 1 of those 2 gens spawn) - that can have anything between 0-3 pallets, both RPDs (2 in main with one connected to one of neighboring rooms - and all neighboring rooms can have gen in it), azarovs (just pick side), suffocation pit (just pick side), wretched shop (main and 2 behind main), eyrie of crows (main, next to main and behind the main), ormond (main and 2 next to it from any side) + all the random 3gen spawns. That's quite a list of maps with strong 3gens
Again with the 60% killrate? Again I have to explain to you why that doesn't mean 60% of win games for the killer and even in terms of MMR a 60% killrate only means killer are doing just fine and that is why that was the percentage BHVR wanted to obtain?
And let's not forget to use personal experiences and specific situations to argue about something that affects a bigger picture, of course. But you know what? This time, get mine as well: Started playing Wraith again with no meta perks. Result: Everytime I got a game with SWF or well coordinated survivors I got destroyed, a 1k as much. So, being forced to, got a loadout with meta and who would know, now I can compete against SWF and do something in the games.
The funny thing here is that I don't even say they shouldn't do something about the current state of the game, but what you people pretend is to just address the killer side of this using SoloQ as an argument. That is not wanting balance, that is wanting to nerf killers for the sake of it. You want balance? Then both sides should be changed in tandem so one side don't get advantage over the other. Are SWF doing fine while SoloQ players don't? Then you should be asking for SoloQ players to have the same tools that allow SWF to do that good so they are at the same level, not pretend for BHVR to balance not taking in count the most efficient way to play the game competitively.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
It's really not absurd. I read an idea here once where there would be a system of tunnels in each map the killer could traverse on a cooldown to help out killers without mobility.
I think it, like yours is a rough idea with a lot of potential and good merit. Yours also incentivizes leaving the hook which is very nice
A system of tunnels that only the killer can use to traverse the map? That sounds kinda sus...
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The idea is cool, but we have to be reasonable here. People are complaining about 25 seconds without being able to heal or repair from the result of a perk that need the killer to spent time kicking a gen and downing a survivor. Now just imagine how they would react if they lose total control of their character because they got hit once...
Maybe if it worked kinda like Onryo or Pyramid Head Mori, when if they are in second phase and had some "infection" bar full instead of hooking them you can spawn the wolf from the already dead survivor would be better.
But like @Stabby_Widdershins said, let's BHVR finish figuring out how pathfinding works before they try to implement any more "minion" powers 🤣
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Killers being able to hear, have common sense and spatial-temporal perception is OP, nerf it...
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"Most players who genuinely care about game balance"... do you mean survivor mains that can't see or don't want to acknowledge that Eruption is one of the best weapons killer have to counter the current Gen rushing + WoO meta, right? The same ones that just ask for the nerf of the perk without even considering that a nerfing of survivor perks and change on mechanics is needed to be done in tandem if you don't want to unbalance the game even more, right? Right...
SWF are doing fine with 3 gens situations, they simply do middle gens so the last three gens aren't close to each other and use loopers with WoO to waste as much time of the killer as possible while doing the gens at max speed thanks to perks like PT, hence the use of Eruption + CoB to counter it. Fix the first, and we can talk about fixing the second.
Also, what @Blueberry said is the way to go.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306008#Comment_3306008
If you remove camping, it will be not an intention of the game to camp anymore xD this is not an argument. This is not why cheaters are disaprove.
And yes. Ignoring all factors, yes, this is my fault i got hooked in the first place. but i have 3 hook stages for some reason, i have 60 seconds on each stage for some reason. Camping is also abusing those two mechanics AND is ruining the game for one person. If you love to hang on hook, then good for you.
And i dont mind for loosing. I dont care about loosing. But i care about playing the game, and being hooked 2 mins is neither fun, nor playing the game.
Yes, gen rushing and bodybloking is not fun either, but why you are talking about this? This is not an argument against camping, its not even related to this.
And no. Im frustrated, because im not survivor main. I play surv only with friends or if there is daily/challange to be done, and iritates me that for 3/5 games i hang on hook being camped, 1/5 games killer is afk, and only 1/5 games is actual playing the game.
And i can see a bigger picture. Playing survivors its just unfun, and anti-game. Its non interactive, non fun, to hang on a hook for 2 mins, this is difference if my team is unwilling to unhook me, or the killer camp. From killer perspective, its easy way to secure 1k, its nobrain, and also non interactive.
Why you can't remove camping and why camping is not such a problem as it has a lot of downsides has being explained to you multiple times, you are just choosing to ignore all those facts because you have the false sense that you have the right to "have fun" at any cost, without taking in consideration the way you are playing the game (because again, most of the time the killer get a 4k camping is because survivors doing in that situation) or if it cost the fun of your opponents.
You have 3 hooks stages because you can also heal from damage and be saved, if you didn't have them one survivor could stay in the game at infinitum as every-time he got saved and healed would undo all the time the killer has spent to hook. In fact, removing the insta sacrifice at 3º hook would only encourage camping as now is more important than ever for that hook to complete. Camping is not abusing any mechanic, you are securing one kill at exchange of letting survivors do their objectives without your intervention.
And I didn't pretend to do an argument against camping mentioning that as there is no more argument to be made after all what had being said (funny that then you started to complain about things totally unrelated to camping just after saying that, tho) but that people would do "unfun" things for the sake of winning, both survivors and killers. Should survivors stop doing all that to win so killers can have their "fun"? If your answer is no, then apply the same to camping.
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The problem with hex perks is the placement of the totems themselves. Many totems are just at plain sight or even close to generators, where it's impossible to miss them even if you are not looking for them. And the game has the bad tendency of just putting the hex in the most visible totem the map could have spawned.
So, either rework the totem placement in map generation where they are in places hard to see, or show killers the aura of dull totems at the start of the match and let the killers place the hex where they want as survivor can do with their boons.
Also, purple? Aren't they orange? 😅
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Ah, the old "SoloQ players are not doing as great as SWF, break the killer knees so they can overperform as well" argument. Never gets old.
If you are so much worried about SoloQ players what you should be asking is for an in-game voicechat so SoloQ players can communicate and coordinate as well as an SWF group in a Discord server. Then we can talk about changing mechanics to address how both sides are playing in the current meta, not only to basically make killers unable to counter how survivors are playing right now.
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@Archael said:
Its not only about the team - do your gens, and 3 escapes. Its also about single survivor. Being hooked for 2 minutes is not fun at all, its not interactive, and contribute nothing even if all other survivors manage to escape. Its bad mechanic.
In other words, as there is people like you that don't like to lose they need to add (more) abusable mechanics to the game so you can have the "fun" do you deserve at all costs. Sorry, but at this point of the conversation is how you sound right now.
And being hooked for 2 minutes (something that can happen with or without camping, but whatever) is not fun as being body blocked when you are trying to hook someone is not fun, or getting gen-rushed is not fun, or survivors going to zones with no hooks close the moment they got hit once is not fun, and a lot of other things that survivors abuse in a per game basis that unlike camping has little to no downside and create lose/lose situations for the killer.
So, seeing you don't want to understand it after all the explanation has being given to you I will just proceed to apply to you the survivor main answer-to-go: If you can't avoid to getting hooked and your friends can't save you from a camping killer is a skill issue, git good.
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@Archael said:
If killer hooked survivor, its already a pressure, 3 hooks means death, i would love to see a mechanic that automatically teleport survivor far from killer the moment they are hooked. Its not fun to hang on a hook for 2 ministra straight the moment You started the game. Someday people frustration will met the end, and there will be no survivor to play with.
Especially that unhooked survivor is still one hook more, and one hook less to kill. If someone cant handle chases its their fault.
And no "let people play how they want". Why we disaprove cheaters? They play as
Dude, you are talking like you started the match hooked already. The funny thing is you don't realize your logic can be used in reverse: "If someone can't handle being hooked to death it's their fault". It's your fault for letting the killer get you downed, more so taking in count survivors have a lot of tools in their hand to avoid this, alone or with help of others.
And it pains me to address that fallacy you used as poor attempt of having a point, but we disapprove cheaters for the same reason we disapprove the "Stop hook timer" mechanic: They give the chance to abuse game mechanics in a way that wasn't the real intention giving the user an unfair advantage that doesn't have any downsides. And before you say it yes, camping has a lot of downsides as not only me, but multiple people told you by now.
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@Yoshirama said:
I just want the incapacitation effect to go, is a bad design and is not healthy.
Or they could just reduce the range like jolt, so at least a survivor could get downed far from the affected gen
The incapacitation is precisely what is allowing killers to do something right now with the current gen-rushing meta. Something that should not apply to survivors but to the gen itself on kicking as basekit as I said almost a month ago (block the gen to be able to be repaired for a fixed time or survivors needing to fix for an added time before stopping the regression and continue repairing it).
Add a basekit mechanic to the killer so they can stop the progression of a gen for a time, and then you can remove the Incapacitated state from Eruption and even nerf it to the ground if you feel like it. Because right now, with games where survivors do the 5 gens in 4-5 minutes or less and instead of looping they use WoO to go from pallet to pallet so not even Bloodlust can activate no wonder of why Eruption + CoB is so much used.
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What they should do is implement an in-game voice chat to level SWF with SoloQ so people stop complaining about how a much needed change in mechanics "would be worst to solo players" and start balancing the game taking in count the 4 survivors can talk and coordinate, because the truth is going against a SWF of more than 2 people is unbearable right now with the current "Gen Rush - WoO pallet to pallet" meta.
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@Jungles23 said:
It's insanely broken right now, flashlights never come on when you need them to. And yes this was a nerf, because flashlighting after a pallet stun is almost impossible now. Every time I hold the button it doesn't come on, so I need to release it and hold it again and then the killer has already turned away. Do the devs even playtest before updates? I mean they're not even listing this as a bug? I can't be the only one with this problem.
Oh and why did they buff flashlight saves? I never heard anyone complain about them, other than the killer mains being mad it exists.
Then I must have dreamed this happened...
https://imgur.com/iXoFmd7 -
@Katzengott said:
And still ppl don't get it because BHVR is too scared to communicate it the right way, for whatever reason.
All surv changes, buffs or nerfs will ALWAYS effect ALL survivors, not just solos or SWFs. The game doesn't make a difference here, never has and never will do. Because since crossplay, the system can't even tell 100% who's playing with friends. Or why do you think we don't even have SWFs icons in the endgame screen for a better understandment? Because the system can't track it 100%.
That is not just true, if you can have a friend list across multiple platforms you can have a way to know who are in a SFW and who not. It has nothing to do with "the system can't track it", they just didn't implemented it for any reason.
@DudelPuma said:
Gene repair duration to 100-110 sec (or higher, you have to see what the right amount is), increase standard heal speed to 20 sec, nerf items, med kits last 32 sec for a whole heal (yes, med kits are much too strong with 16 sec self-healing) and much more ...
HUH? and where please does that help the solo q? now comes the point, killers have a lot more time and are not more under high pressure just because it's a swf, so here comes an "action buff" for everyone who enters the queue alone (i.e. solo), here too you have to look and be played with the numbers, 10% faster gen speed 20% faster heal speed
that would also motivate people to play solo q again without getting frustrated, or rather look for a swf or play killer "everything but no solo q because that's the worst way to play dbd" or let it be dbd altogether , which is also understandable to leave dbd behind, because after bhvr has waited so long with any answer, a lot of people have left the solo q almost only beginners and some people who have no idea about dbd (these are most of the high mmr players at the moment )
Something have to be done with full SWF doing genrush, yes... but what you are suggesting is just nuts.
I think BHVR have started to do the right thing, equalize the level of comunication a SWF team have as that is the main advantage of a squad (even tho, in-game voice chat would be a better option that status icons and would really put SoloQ at the same level of SWF, but whatever) and then start balancing against SWF as nobody can say "But what about SoLo PlAyErS?" then, as they aren't in a "coordination disadvantage" anymore.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305290#Comment_3305290
So, mechanic was meant to encourage hunting and sidcurage camping, but survivors was using it to "force" killer to hunting and not camping, and this is an abuse?
Okay, get it.
I have a question tho.
Why killer could not go for a chase with ONE of those 2-3 starring survivors, hook them, and repeat untill all was hooked 3 times? Why they had to camp, even tho it was to prevent camping?
Because you should not be able to force the killer to do anything, much less in a way that allows you to do it without any pressure as you can stop the hook timer and put him in a lose/lose situation. It had being explained many times by now.
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305409#Comment_3305409
Sounds like camping
Only if you are one of those survivors that try the unhook 3 meters away of the killer and believes the only right thing for the killer to do is just ignore it and go away. If I have the intention to not camping but you come to the rescue not a second after I hook, why I should leave and let you do the save for free? Because your survivor's morals guidebook?
What if I didn't camp but the hook timer is just seconds away to be completed and I see two of you are going to rescue, should I just start chasing one and let the other unhook because that was your plan and killer should make survivor feel good and don't play to win? Should the game stop the timer in that moment so you are guaranteed to do the save without harm or pressure even if you didn't come to do it earlier?
Seriously, both of you sound at this point like you want to have the right to do the save or be saved with the killer being unable to do something to stop it, because I think @Stabby_Widdershins explained pretty well that this was what happened when they implemented that mechanic and survivors abused it.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305255#Comment_3305255
Sorry, I have a hard time understanding this
The abuse is that the killer cannot leave the hooked survivor area?
I am so confused
I don't see what is so hard to understand. By how it is described, there would be only three possible outcomes:
- Killer stays facecamping without moving. Hooking time would not going down as North and South survivors are there. The 4º survivor is free to do all 5 gens and open gates by his own.
- Killer decides to go after either North or South survivor. The other one not being chased would go to the rescue and free the other. They got a guaranteed unhook without the pressure of time running out to do the save and now three survivors are free to do gens while either North or South loop the killer.
- Killer try to fend of the hook, so start chasing either North or South survivor for a short time then come to the hook to defend it from the other. We are back to outcome 1.
In other words, what survivors are doing today with gens but with a hooked survivor instead. Why don't surprise me that survivors abused mechanics that put the killer in lose/lose situations 🤣
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Double post...
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That balance is easy to achieve, give killers some basekit way to battle gen rushing (more insta progress lost on kicking, survivors needing more than just half a second tapping on a kicked gen to stop regression [this is my personal preference as doesn't nerf or buff anything directly], or make one of the regression perk basekit as they did with BT), nerf all the regression perks and pum, all it's left is wait for another meta that anybody would like to settle so we can start complaining about what the other side do again.
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@barsw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304839#Comment_3304839
Seems you are playing on the lowest MMR
And you in one to high for you. That doesn't make what I said less true 🤣
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@ThePhoenixx said:
What is a cd?
A round object with a hole in the middle that was the standard format for data storage for music, movies and games before the DVD and later USB pendrives with digital formats was the preferred mainstream method...
Alright, bad boomer level jokes apart, is the abbreviated form of "Cool Down", meaning the time that has to pass for an ability to be used again.
@barsw said:
When you are going to do something with this two killers ?They really need hard nerfs and a lot of people who have enough experience in the game would agree with that .Nurse needs her cd and lenght addons rework and cd for ability inrease same to blight and cut his ability to destroy the pallets .
I'm not going to talk about Blight as I didn't play with him or against him as survivor, but Nurse is a high skill - high reward killer, meaning someone picking her for the first time won't be able to do anything with her. Nerfing her to the ground as you suggest would only punish killer mains who employed the time to learn how to play with her and make more difficult to master her for people that want to.
So she either stays the way she is now (she is only 5.36% of the pickrate after all) or they reduce the skillgap needed for her to be viable with the nerfs making her easy to play with. Either way, you are going to still get mad as your problem seems to be you think her power is OP when in reality you need a lot of practice to use it effectively.
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Funny to me to see how this is considered a "buff" when it's basically just a quality of life improvement that should be already in the game. In fact it shouldn't just be for scourge hooks, but show you the auras of all hooks when you are at grabbing distance of the downed survivor so you can plan ahead instead of just do the grabbing to realize you don't have any nearby hook or that hook that looked close is behind a wall with the door at the other side of the building while the timer for the survivor to escape is running.
Looks like survivors should get all the free info they can for free but killers should go blind unless they spend a perk slot. If they are going to implement an status icon system so survivors can get info from across the map killers can get a little help to make situational awareness a little easier for them.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304230#Comment_3304230
That vid is also a bit disingenuous (as in camping is even worse than shown, even with Reassurance). That is, if people actually watched the full matches he used for the numbers. In the Reassurance re-attempt matches he actively let people use Reassurance and let them get away without taking free m1/m2s the Survivors gave him by getting within range to use the perk (only 1 or 2 matches there was a meaningful separate story Reassurance if I recall correctly). He wasn't trying to win with a heavy emphasis on camping, he was trying to exclusively camp to see the effectiveness of facecamping only. Also two of the matches in the re-attempt he straight up got juiced (one on Ormond), and that would happen Reassurance or no. Again, compared to the test sample where he never got juiced.
If you do that same test now, you will find only 10-50% of matches with even a single Reassurance compared to the average of ~1-3 Reassurances per match at the timing of the video (either the end of week of the chapter release or the week after). If you would focus on winning soloq with a heavy emphasis on camping then it would probably only drop to 80-90% win rate (from 100%), with still no meaningful skill expression. You can still easily work around Kinship/Reassurance by leaving the hook and chasing and facecamping your next victim, then tunneling the Reassured survivor if rescued.
It is a "bit disingenuous" but not for the reasons you give, but because he is talking (at least from the games he is showing in the video) exclusively about one of the few killers that benefits most from facecamping as I said. You can't center your argument to the one killer that most benefits from that strategy and then apply your result to all the others 30 killers of the game.
The video @Archael posted is a bit more enlightening in that at least he uses multiple killers without instadowns and as you said the main objective is to camp the first hooked survivor and get the most kills after that, but again, if you watch what is shown it's clearly obvious that as I said, many time camping works because even when the save seems impossible 3 survivors will try to pull it off at all cost and end paying the price of their actions.
The best way to stop camping is punishing the killers who does it by repairing gens while he is doing and make his chases as long as possible. That's all it needs.
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What about it? Because it only proves that if you have the right perks and addons camping is viable for some of killers if you only want one guaranteed kill, and when they get more is because the survivors doing (my favorite is minute 7:04, like dude... you don't only go to the rescue while he is right there, he is throwing knifes at you and you would stay still until you got downed! Big brain move 😂) so I think it proves my point.
If in every match survivors would do what they did to eliminate Bubba from the "tournament" (and it took them 6 minutes to do all gens, way far for the fastest time 3 survivors can do the 5 gens by Otz own words [I had survivors doing 3 gens in less than 3 minutes] and the two he killed didn't even had their perks at lvl 3) or what they did to trickster where 3 survivors escaped many of those games would end differently. Not only that, but by his own words, the moment he started getting higher MMR what was easy wins started to become so hard fought games (minute 15:28). Seriously, watch the video again and tell me in most of the footage he shows wasn't the survivors doing what allowed him to do a 2/3/4k.
So, yeah... unless you are saying that the way survivors acted in the majority of those cases against killers with specifics perks and addons (all of them being 22.23% of the pickrate, so the probability of finding one of those killers with those builds are minimal) was the right way to go, I reaffirm again my point: Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price and most of the times it works is because survivors doing and mistakes.
BTW, that video is before 6.1.0 patch was online and the BT basekit was implemented, which by the tournaments rules he auto imposed would made a lot more difficult to camp that first hooked survivor if someone would get a save as he wouldn't be able to down him again like he did in many parts of the video and would be forced to tunnel him, allowing others to bodyblock an all the survivors things they do.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303433#Comment_3303433
Your laboratory numbers do not hold to real world scruttiny. Also you would need 4man SWF to know what's actually happening. You want to know how it really holds up? Survivors have reassurance, or you get at minimum 2K. See:
Do you realize the video basically agree with my statement, right? Literally the first phrase I said, "Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown"? Obviously a killer that can instadown 3 survivors with one swing would benefit from camping (and Hero Mode x 3) but again, for killers without instadowns camping is not a viable strategy in the majority of situations. And the numbers add up, as I'm talking about 3 gens done and trying to go to a save and he is talking about 5 gens and exit gates done (in fact, unlike me he is just taking total time to fully hook and 5 gen repair without taking in count chasing time, moment gens are started to be repaired and how many survivors per gen, but meh).
And if we want to do a "real world scruttiny", by the time the killer hook the survivor he is going to camp the other survivors can have a lot of progress in their respective generator (or even have done 1 or 2), taking in count chasing time and such by the time the killer down his second survivor the other 2 could have finished the last gens and try to save or get out of there, two survivors on the same gen take about 53 seconds to finish it without perks or great checks so they would have even more time to go to do the save, and in a real world scenario there is progression perks, great skillchecks, toolboxes, chasing time, Reassurance, etc. Just to name a few real world situations.
On top of it, the 3 killers he is talking about in his fixes (with Bubba being the one that most benefits from camping, obviously) only compose the 7.06% of the pickrate in all MMRs by September data, and we are assuming that one of them is using an specific addon everytime it is picked, so even if 100% of those killers would do camping it will still be a minimum amount of the games where that strategy is used in a viable way at the start of the match.
So doesn't matter how you look at it, I reaffirm what I said: Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price (and this last one is really hard to pull off with other 2 - 3 survivors body blocking).
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303663#Comment_3303663
I believe Fortnite, as with most other games, had Cross Progression deals in place when they were released to a platform. But DBD was just on Steam in the beginning, and it's success later allowed them to port it on over to the consoles, sadly with no Cross Progression in place. Much harder to negotiate deals later, ones that both Sony and Microsoft would agree to.
That is not true, even more, Fortnite didn't come with crossplay and was the first game to "implement it" the way we know it this day by accident.
Yes, the feature that now everybody expects in a multiplatform game was a bug. The key was that Fortnite, AKA Epic Games used their own account system and their own servers. What happened is that they made a mistake and matched PS4 and Xbox players in the same game (something that people noticed because some names had an underscore in it and IIRC that wasn't allowed in Xbox) and so crossplay was born, something that Sony was totally against at first (they only allowed to play with PC users at first)and took many time of popular demand and other companies doing it for them to allow it not only in Fortnite, but other games like Minecraft (fun fact, Nintendo and Microsoft made jokes about how Switch and Xbox player would be able to play together but Playstation players won't because of Sony not allowing it on twitter). So yeah, Fortnite didn't launch with crossplay, cross progression came later, and now is allowed by all platforms.
So, there is no reason for Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft being cool with crossplay but not cross progression, but I found something interesting while searching: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/sony-is-the-only-platform-holder-that-charges-for-cross-play-epic-ceo-claims/
So maybe is a little mix of everything: BHVR not wanting to pay Sony royalties for DLC not sold in PSN, they get more money for the same content as players have to buy it multiple times in multiple platforms, and they are using the native authentication systems of each platform and don't have the infrastructure to manage the linking of each platform account to their own "universal" one to keep progress or handle how each platform do DLCs (which again, would mean a total rework of that systems, which means lot of work and resources). Who knows... what I know is that it has nothing to do with the respective platform holders "not wanting them to do it".
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Tell me you don't play as killer without telling me you don't play as killer.
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I mean, other games like Fortnite have cross progression on all platforms, meaning if I log in any of the consoles version I would have all my progress and cosmetics I had in my account on PC and it is a F2P game. Taking in count the game already has crossplay I don't see any reason of why it shouldn't have cross progression unless BHVR managed the accounts for different platforms separately and unifying them would need an infrastructure rework (and that is like rebuilding a house from the ground up). That, or they use it as an excuse so you would have to buy the same DLC 3 times for 3 different platforms.
But seeing that the forum now lies on the BHVR page instead of a dedicated DbD, I think they are already working on doing that (unifying their accounts systems). It won't be a surprise that sooner or later you would need a BHVR account instead of an specific DbD account so they can save your progress on all platforms and such... I just won't expect it soon, tho.
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I don't really thing the way the perk work is the problem, but how Endurance works as it is to all effects a third health state with all that it entails, including an speed boost for survivor and slow down for the killer (meaning, longer chase time) with the only cost of not being able to stop running until you have 10 seconds to mend yourself. Combine this with another survivor body blocking and this can literally nullify all the time invested in a chase that the killer won at all effects.
So, I think the way to go is to rework Endurance, either by removing the speed boost to the survivor, make it to not slow down the killer, or deep wound having a fixed timer that runs out even when running. This would made DH and all other second chances perks what they should be, an aid to give survivors a little more time to escape (or get help to) from the killer, and not a literal third state that punish the killer by having to waste more time for being able to down survivors.
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@igotskiz said:
-Can only be used once per game
-Can be missed
-Disabled once the Exit Gates are powered
-Had the stun duration reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
-60 second perk timer that can be soft-bypassed by slugging
-Perk timer can be disabled by performing Conspicuous Actions
At some point you have to throw a dog a bone. We can all agree that Decisive Strike was broken in the past. But there's a point where the pendulum swings too far and right now it's full swing in the opposite direction. If a Killer eats a Decisive Strike as it is right now then they 100% deserve it, and it's doing what it intends to do: deter (not prevent) Killers from tunneling. But now it's barely a hindrance. A perk slot should be more powerful than what basically equates to a pallet save with an insane amount of conditions applied.
Because a pallet save doesn't have an insane amount of conditions applied unless you are in a SWF with voicechat, of course.
A 63 second max waste in a chase is not only a "hindrance" for a killer, it is 2/3 of a gen done without great skillchecks, prevents you for getting a second hook and now they would even waste more of your time without any help, as at least with a flashlight or pallet save at least one more survivors is not progressing any gen.
As you just said, it's doing what it intends to do and is doing it strong enough. It doesn't need any swing to any direction.
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And why we don't just remove the killer ability to attack by this point? Something like:
New Mechanic: Killer M1 is so OP
- If the killer get to hook someone before 4 gens are done, killer can not attack for the rest of the match.
This would solve all the "abuse" killers do in their games...
Now talking seriously, I had a game tonight against a SWF where they did 3 gens in less than 60 seconds each and even if it wasn't my best play no, I didn't overcommit to chases (to be fair, I didn't even had the chance to). Great skill check hacks? Godly skill? I don't know, but even if not as fast this is the new normality in this game, having 3 gens done by the time you hook for the second time.
So doing tunneling or slugging is not only the "optimal" way, is the only way for most matches right now. Let's solve the gen problem first so taking a survivor from the game ASAP is not a necessity, and then we can talk about punishing tunneling even more.
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I just copy-paste an answer I gave to another comment as it is the exact same topic:
Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price (and taking in count how bad grabbing unhooking survivors works, if there are 3 survivors left not even for this as they will unhook and start the body blocking parade to the exit gate with a little stop for the tbagging).
And this is not just an opinion, it is a mathematical fact:
120 seconds to fully hook survivor, lets say killer spent 10 second patrolling 3 gens, 30 seconds to down (being soooo generous here) and another 10 seconds to hook the survivor. 120 + 30 + 30 + 10 = 190 seconds.
A generator take 90 seconds without great skillchecks to complete. Now, lets suppose the other 3 survivors got to a generator by the time the killer downed who would suffer the camping: They can not just complete their respective generators, but also have an extra 40 seconds for the three of them to try the save.
And this in the hypothetical worst case scenario, if any of the other survivors had a gen with progress already even before the killer got to his first gen in his patrol, they would have even more time to do the save. Add tools, perks, body blocking, godly great skillcheck accuracy and all the paraphernalia to the mix and camping is not a good strategy to follow in the majority of cases for the majority of killers.
To be honest, many times camping work because the survivors doing, the moment someone get hooked or grabbed they just leave their generators flashlights and toolboxes in hand and go to the rescue in that instant without completing the generator they were doing. More so, even if the save seems impossible, they will still try even if they see that not only they can't save the first survivor, one or two more are downed.
So the lesson is, there is already an anti-camping system, is called "Don't get to Hero Squad Mode and do the gens unless the situation allows it".
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Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price (and taking in count how bad grabbing unhooking survivors works, if there are 3 survivors left not even for this as they will unhook and start the body blocking parade to the exit gate with a little stop for the tbagging).
And this is not just an opinion, it is a mathematical fact:
120 seconds to fully hook survivor, lets say killer spent 10 second patrolling 3 gens, 30 seconds to down (being soooo generous here) and another 10 seconds to hook the survivor. 120 + 30 + 30 + 10 = 190 seconds.
A generator take 90 seconds without great skillchecks to complete. Now, lets suppose the other 3 survivors got to a generator by the time the killer downed who would suffer the camping: They can not just complete their respective generators, but also have an extra 40 seconds for the three of them to try the save.
And this in the hypothetical worst case scenario, if any of the other survivors had a gen with progress already even before the killer got to his first gen in his patrol, they would have even more time to do the save. Add tools, perks, body blocking, godly great skillcheck accuracy and all the paraphernalia to the mix and camping is not a good strategy to follow in the majority of cases for the majority of killers.
To be honest, many times camping work because the survivors doing, the moment someone get hooked or grabbed they just leave their generators flashlights and toolboxes in hand and go to the rescue in that instant without completing the generator they were doing. More so, even if the save seems impossible, they will still try even if they see that not only they can't save the first survivor, one or two more are downed.
So the lesson is, there is already an anti-camping system, is called "Don't get to Hero Squad Mode and do the gens unless the situation allows it".
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If we use the survivor rhetoric here, the only answer to this will be "If you can't do a simple skill check then is a skill issue and you should lose".
You say "missing a skill check" make it useless, but in reality it grant you the ability to totally waste up to 60 seconds of the killer's time and give you another chance to keep wasting it with a distance advantage of 3 seconds with just a skill check. All this on top of the basekit "mini borrowed time" + other second chances perks like DH.
If it really needed a change it wouldn't be a buff, and even then it won't stop the tunneling for the reason @Stabby_Widdershins already said: Right now, even tunneling a survivor you can end with 3-4 gens done by the time you fully sacrifice him.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303301#Comment_3303301
Breakdown isn't usually the main culprit behind 4-man sabo squads, it's just an accomplice to throw salt into the would. Resorting to slugging is a perfectly reasonable response then, and no amount of hashtags in the postgame chat can invalidate that
I totally agree and I'm not saying it should be nerfed, just that I understand there is some situations where it can seem excessive and frustrating.
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Eruption it's only most effective by endgame and if the last 3 gens are close together with few survivors left, it requires the killer to stop kicking the generator giving time to survivors to hide or run away, and if the killer don't get to down someone before the kicked gen is done it completely nullifies it's usefulness, including the Incapacitated debuff.
Yes, the perk is good in combination with other regression / kick gen perks and can be frustrating with 3 close gens and only two survivors, but by itself it's not that much. If they change it to affect only one gen they should add some benefit like kicking speed boost or something, because then it would be useless.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
On paper 180 seconds might seem excessive, but when you actually load into the game it's rarely too much of a nuisance. You'll get two activations max per survivor, and unless you've got two or three broken hooks close together, it's very rare for it to create hook dead zones.
Unless they are a SWF squad who also have a saboteur or two, Boiled Up, a couple of Petrified Oaks and they go to the "dead zones" on purpose the moment they got hit once. Those are the people that usually complain about the slugging at the end of the match.
It's not on paper where 180 seconds seems excessive, is excessive in the way and the context survivors use that perk.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291236#Comment_3291236
You really are funny one.
You say killers are weak and survivors are OP. I show you that they in fact win 60% of games (what do you call win if not kill rate? That is PRECISELY WIN/LOOSE). So "my side" winning just ~60% of games (all games everywhere) is being weaker role. = YOU ARE ENTITLED!
"LOL In what other situation that isn't "Killer has NOED or miraculously succeed to evade all the body blocking and get a second hit on an injured survivor, hook it, and then the other 3 survivors decides to become the hero of the game and start gathering in the hook because every single one of them have the absolute need to pass through the exit gates happily hopping and holding hands with the other 3" that can happen?"
Have you ever seen basement in this game? Also you said mistake done by survivor can't loose the game. I just showed how stupid your arguments are. Yet you again conveniently don't see it. 1 mistake by survivor can end up by 4K. Just get downed next to basement and it's very possible 1 hooked in basement and 3-man slugged on ground. Even if killer did not get single hook before all those 5 gens are completed and both gates are prepared. So false on your false.
You mean the two things for which they already have taken action more than once in form of perks or the modification and addition of base game mechanics
Sure they did. By nerfing DS so that nobody cares and everyone tunnels. OTR does nothing as it's canceled by getting hit right after unhook. And DS at most resets your deep wound state, because those 2 seconds (yes it's not 3. You are locked in animation for 1 second) will give you just enough time until 1 blink or 1 blight rush downs you again. Cool design. Very good change indeed. That's also the reason why so many more killers tunnel.
But yet again, care to explain how camping or tunneling is an abuse of the game mechanics.
The game was designed and balanced around playing 4v1. It does not take genius how it's abusing the game design when you change it to 3v1 or 2v1. Are you really so "intelligent" that you need this explained further? Also I am 99% sure there will be no antislug mechanics. Or at least nothing that even resembles the state that was in PTB.
And your point is? Apart from it being like me saying "Economy is f up right now for this reasons" and you responding "You should have lived the 1929 crisis, that was really bad!"...
Wait what? The game was NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER more killer sided as is now after patch 6.1. The queue times were ALWAYS longer for killer. Always. Show me one patch where it was more in favor of killers EVER. Now you even have incentives for less used side and it's almost always on survivors. And yet queue times are still always shorter for them as there's not enough masochists to play against 59/61% kill rate. So no. It's not 1929 crisis. This is more like you live in 2007 and complain that you want to go back to better times of 1929. Just stupid. Yet again it shows how little you know about the game.
in comparation to be a team of 4 able to coordinate as you believe then killers should be winning all the games.
Yes exactly you showed your true colors. You will never be happy until your side has chance to loose. Again ~60% win rate is just not enough. Give me all the games every time. Doesn't matter if they are just better players with 10x the experience or stuff. I want to be able to win against them. I want them to not be able to do anything. Only then the game will be "fair". Well. Enjoy your queue times, because nobody will want to play the game if the game had it your way.
but if this is "how it should be" then why are you non-stop complaining about how much OP killers are?
I know this might come as a surprise to you, but I am not complaining about the fact that killers have powers. I complain about how buffed killer interactions have become. Again ~60% kill rate. Make it 50% all around (solo vs killer, swf vs killer, noob killer vs noob survivors and pro killer vs pro survivors) and I will have 0 complaints. Unlike you that things even 60% is survivor sided. Again. I want balance. You want easy games. That's why I call you biased. And again. You had nothing to say against that you play 0 survivor. I play both sides. I see how I easily win as killer. I know how very different it was before patch 6.1 (where kill rate was 49% on average). But it doesn't matter. Devs will realize when they see how all the numbers are slowly going nonstop down and how it's almost always not enough survivors. Nobody wants to nonstop tryhard to at least see a chance to escape 2 out of 5 games.
If I begin fighting in 1v4 fights against toddlers, I think we can all agree that I and most people will have a guaranteed 99% winrate across all fights. Using your bs logic, I'm OP and someone should break my legs to make it fair. But if I started doing 1v4 against heavyweight boxers I will be lucky if I get out of the first fight alive, more so if you finally broke my legs so toddlers have a chance against me.
Even if it does not work all the time, there is MMR system in game. So if you play X games against toddlers and win them all, then you are guaranteed to get better players. Basically all you need to do is have more then 2K on average and your MMR will go up - which means you will get harder survivors. So no toddlers if you play more then single hour in the game (except when the game can't find anyone in your skill level or if you reched peak MMR). In fact as your MMR rises when your killrate is over 50% and we have sustained kill rate of 59/61%, it just shows that even heavy boxer survivors can't compete against mediocre killers. That's how OP killers have become.
Also it shows your understanding of game balancing. If one side looses more then they win they are the strong side that needs nerfs. You need to "remove things they abuse for win to have fair games". Really? So that they loose even more? Make it impossible for survivors to finish game? Because killer can hold the game objective indefinitely? Because that's how the game should be? How stupid is that? Imagine it going the othert side - imagine survivors were able to sabotage all hooks in a game and there was no bleed time limit. Would that be fair to killer? For survivors to be able to become truly invincible? That's what you are asking for killer side and this NOT BEING POSSIBLE is "abuse". Is there anything more stupid then that? Because I can't think of something more stupid then that.
that those graphs show kill rates, no win rates
That's where you are wrong. Kill rate IS win rate. Killer plays 4 games in a single match. For each kill/win he gets, he is awarded some MMR (also BP and progress towards emblems if you care about those). And this is from killer's POW. From survivor's POW it's even clearer. You escape or you don't. If you escape in 40% chance, then it means you loose more then you win. It's as easy as that. They also said as much when they explained MMR (sure you can consider win/loose anything you want. But MMR that determines your actual match making is VERY clear on it and your definition of win will have 0 consequences on it). So pay attention next time.
WON AGAINST WHO?
Against 5% of best players. What it means is killer is able to win against tryhards (who can become 5% best without trying? So no. It's not against babies. Only if you say more then 97.5% of survivors are babies - which would also indicate that the game is in a bad spot if virtually nobody can become at least average good)
If the kill/win rate of killers were 30%,
I would ask for killer buffs for sure. The game would be twice as easy for survivors at that point as it is easy for killers right now. But I would not ask for buffing tunneling. I would suggest buffing chases. Tunneling is very much not fun to survivor and on the other hand is not exactly that much more fun for killer to offset it. Chases are fun for both sides. So chases would have needed buffs. But as it stands, killers have 60% killrate...
"killer op, nerf m1"
Show me where I genuinely said that. I want to balance the game by giving soloQ enough information so that there would not be such a huge gap between solo vs 4man SWF. Because right now playing solo is just slaughterhouse always loses with 0 fun. If providing extra info to soloQ would actually balance kill rate to fair 50% (especially if it worked across all skill groups), I would be happy with the state of the game.
"Why is every killer using Eruption right now?"
That's easy. Because killers want easy wins (same as you). So they use strong perks that give them +40.25s gen time every time they hit at lest 1 survivor. Why nurses use starstruck with agitation? Because they want to loose the game? Don't make me laugh.
I'm not saying they should be nerfed, I'm not crying because I can't win games, I don't want to win 1000% of the games I play. I'm just saying that how the game is designed right now there are game mechanics being abused by survivors that gives them an unfair advantage and are provoking a lot of other things that make playing the game awful for everybody and should be changed.
How to contradict yourself in 2 consecutive sentences. Congratulations. You have done it!
Killers have ~60% kill rate yet survivors abuse stuff and need to loose things they are able to do, but I don't want to win all the games. Trust me. LOL. All I want is for killer to have possibility for survivor to ever finish gens if I decide it. Because that would NOT make me win 1000% of all games and make the games more enjoyable for everyone. "Really smart". And I am biased for calling YOU biased to even suggest unfixable 3gen buff. Are you for real? Locking every gen after kick IS creating unfixable 3gens and it IS killer buff. And if you don't see this then yet again. It just shows you play just 1 side AND you are entitled killer main.
You say killers are weak and survivors are OP.
Tell me exactly when and where I had said that in all the comments we have exchanged until now. Please, do. Because in any case, what I said is "Killers are not OP, and survivors aren't as defenseless as many survivors main says", and unlike you, I did so with facts of all the base advantages survivors have against the killer, not just "In one game Bubba with his OP perks and OP addons sneezed with almost no effort and killed 3 survivors doing perfectly as they always do because survivors are all pros, so all killers are OP by design".
So "my side" winning just ~60% of games (all games everywhere) is being weaker role. = YOU ARE ENTITLED!
Oh, and who have said killers are winning 60% of games, if you don't mind? Again, killrate ≠ winrate. 60% of survivors killed is not 60% of won games. A game won for a killer is 4 survivors, 61% of killrate means in 100 games (400 survivors), 244 survivors are killed in average. 50 games are 200 survivors, so lets be generous and say that on average killers won 50% of their games, and in the others kills from 0 to 3 survivors to reach that 44 left, which means he lost those games. See now why killrate and winrate are not the same and what you are saying around that average percentage is wrong? Even more taking in count it is an average of all killers rate, as most killers have a killrate lower than that.
Have you ever seen basement in this game?
You mean that place that rarely come handy to use because normally you would be getting survivors downed too far from it? Yeah, I have seen it, even use it from time to time if the situation allows me. What is your point?
Also you said mistake done by survivor can't loose the game.
Saying that while conveniently forgetting to address the last part of my post you copied there ("Because that was my point, that killer mistakes also punish him and punish him hard, not that mistake survivors do can't throw a game.") is just marvelous, I love it 🤣
Just get downed next to basement and it's very possible 1 hooked in basement and 3-man slugged on ground.
Again, explain me how a game can end like that, more so when exit gates are opened, if it isn't because the snowball of mistakes and failures that start with "Hero mode x 3". That is not making a single mistake and throwing the game, that is almost giving the killer the game on purpose because you have the need to be 4 crossing the exit gates and not only you have failed to save 1 survivor, you gave the killer the opportunity to kill another 3.
By nerfing DS so that nobody cares and everyone tunnels.
Oh, here we go again! Again talking perks when the argument is about base game mechanics. But fine, have it your way:
- Getting hit just after being unhooked is unlikely unless someone unhook you with the killer 5 meters away of the hook, and even then normally the game would register the hit for the unhooker unless you are aligned perfectly and wait for the right moment (and there isn't someone body blocking, of course). And if by any reason that supposedly and specific situation you describe is not what happens most of the time, it grants Endurance with other bonuses for 80 seconds after being unhooked. Totally useless perk, no doubt.
- DS was nerfed at the same time they added a free 7% speed boost and Endurance for 5 seconds just from being unhooked and I see a lot of survivor not only using it, but even baiting the killer with it (is one of the reasons I never follow a survivor eager to be chased / downed). Also, you are yet again trying to use something that just specific killers have to make a point in an argument of something that affects all the games and not just those killers. In fact, for Blight and Nurse that would be 8.63% of all games in all MMRs. So, even with the supposition that 100% of survivors would have DS in that 8.63% of games against that killers, you are basically complaining about how DS is less effective in those games while it still remain strong in the other 91.37%.
The game was designed and balanced around playing 4v1. It does not take genius how it's abusing the game design when you change it to 3v1 or 2v1.
So, now killing survivors out of the game is abusing the game design? Sorry, but you said it like if tunneling was the killer snapping his fingers and suddenly 1 or 2 survivors become dust, Thanos style. Even when tunneling the killer can lose a lot of time allowing the other 3 do what they need. The time the killer is tunneling, is time free of killer for the other 3, so it is still a 4v1 game.
So no. It's not 1929 crisis. This is more like you live in 2007 and complain that you want to go back to better times of 1929.
Explain to me rationally how anything of what I said would make the game regress to how it was before (a time when it was so much worst for killers as you yourself have said, so you should be agreeing with me then) and I will never post in this forum again. It doesn't have anything to do not just with what I said, but what you said here either. How is this related to the fact that your answer to fixing mechanics that survivors abuse in the game today was "before was worst", and what has queue times to do with it?
Yes exactly you showed your true colors. You will never be happy until your side has chance to loose. Again ~60% win rate is just not enough. Give me all the games every time.
Are you serious? I can't not believe you don't understand that what I was saying is "If you were right and killers abilities were such and advantage over survivors as you said, then killers would win every game" with it being an hypothetical situation using your logic in response to you basically saying "Killers abilities nullifies the advantages survivors has for being 4, and that makes them OP and survivors totally defenseless". I don't believe anymore that even you believe what you say seriously. It can't be.
Again ~60% kill rate. Make it 50% all around (solo vs killer, swf vs killer, noob killer vs noob survivors and pro killer vs pro survivors) and I will have 0 complaints.
I already explained not only why that 60% killrate by itself doesn't mean anything, also that it isn't winrates and doesn't means that killers win even a 50% of their games, so go read it again. And you want balance, but not to address anything that affects how survivors abuse the game mechanics. And btw, I'm still waiting for a response of why anything of what I said indicates that I want is easy games or why my suggestion would do so.
In fact as your MMR rises when your killrate is over 50% and we have sustained kill rate of 59/61%, it just shows that even heavy boxer survivors can't compete against mediocre killers. That's how OP killers have become.
That's doesn't make any sense, as by what you just said the game should couple heavy boxers survivors with great killers, not mediocre ones. And again, killers are OP because a number that doesn't mean anything more that what the number says is high?
If one side looses more then they win they are the strong side that needs nerfs. You need to "remove things they abuse for win to have fair games". Really? So that they loose even more?
Again, that killrate means nothing by itself, and you are talking like they would just implement a change to a game mechanic and leave the rest of the game just as it is right now. Of course if they do it they should also rebalance the rest of the game to accommodate this change AND I SAID IT MULTIPLE TIMES BY NOW.
Because killer can hold the game objective indefinitely? Because that's how the game should be? How stupid is that?
Again, waiting for you to justify this claim with something that makes sense, as you made one time after another this claim that what I said would lead to killer taking game hostage and doesn't matter how I explain it to you it won't, you keep saying it without giving good reasons why!
That's where you are wrong. Kill rate IS win rate. Killer plays 4 games in a single match.
False, that is a misconception of how MMR works. I get where you are coming from with this, but even if that's the way they explained MMR in the day it's just really an individual match for the survivor. For the killer, after the match, the final MMR would take in count if you killed or don't the 4 survivors, effectively making it a lost game if you don't hook at least 3 survivors in terms of MMR (in theory). But if you want to stick to that 61%, again, that would be 2.44 survivors per game killed (244 survivors killed in 100 games). So, even in terms of the MMR, killer are doing just fine to maintain their rating on average in top MMR, and that is the key here, average, because there would be survivors that win most of their "individual battles" against the killers, others that will lose more, killers that kills most of the survivors, others that would lose more games, and that is why they stated that killrate alone is not what they use to balance things like killer perks and such.
imagine survivors were able to sabotage all hooks in a game and there was no bleed time limit. Would that be fair to killer? For survivors to be able to become truly invincible? That's what you are asking for killer
Again, if you can say when and where I said that is what I want for killer or explain to me rationally how what I suggested will have that effect I will stop talking here. More so after the explanation I gave you in my own post about how it would work and your claim that it would aggravate facecamping. And if anyone is curious about it: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291609
Against 5% of best players.
No. Sorry but no. You can't know they are the best players when the MMR supposedly just tracks how many times you are killed or not as equally you can't know who are overpowered or not by just kill or winrates and that's being a discussion since they implemented this system.
That's easy. Because killers want easy wins (same as you).
And you don't. That's why you don't like a suggestion to fix a mechanic survivors abuse which makes the use of perks like Eruption a need.
Show me where I genuinely said that.
In all your comments, implicitly and literally more than one time. Not nerf m1 of course, but that killers are OP, which is what I meant using an exaggeration.
How to contradict yourself in 2 consecutive sentences.
Like here. You really believe that me wanting an abusable game mechanic being fixed is me wanting killers to be OP (or stay OP, as you think they already are) when it is not. It's simple as it sounds, I want abusable game mechanics to being changed so the game can be better for everyone, whoever is killers or survivors abusing them.
And I would address the rest of your comment, but I would be here all day and if you don't understand it by now, is because you simply don't want to understand it. So have a nice day, and I hope we see in the fog... I will have a nice hook just waiting for you.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291236#Comment_3291236
who is entitled? even otz agrees on the 1 survivor mistake throws the whole match... He is a killer main id say that im a survivor main and seems like the other guy in here also agrees so... I mean if you miss a swing at worst its a much longer chase but as he said if you mess up in the endgame it can easily snowball into a 4k...
(and no just because otz agrees doesnt mean its true) My point was that he plays more killer and tends to be more on the killer side and im more on the survivor side and basically everyone i play with also agrees. But i mean thats my opinion u can have your.
First, I don't know who otz is. Second, I was responding to @Gandor, who in another post literally said that in a 3gen situation killer should simply let survivors win, and then proceeded to come here and call me entitled and blind while proving one time after another that is he who has a clearly survivor main "killer op" mentality.
Also, from my comment you are responding to:
Because that was my point, that killer mistakes also punish him and punish him hard, not that mistake survivors do can't throw a game.
So I don't know exactly what is the problem here.
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While it's true it would make the game easier to balance for the devs, it would remove the fun of making your build, it would force devs to basically have to also rebalance every single survivor and killer in the game and looking at it from the monetization perspective you would remove a reason to buy paid DLC characters so I don't thing it is a good idea or something they would do.
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What can you expect from a system that censors "serial killer" in a game about serial killers...
At least they should add an option to deactivate it in the settings.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290371#Comment_3290371
I am iri1 killer for 2 weeks now. What's that supposed to mean? Being iri1 is easy. Especially if you don't play soloQ (because in solo you can depip when your team decides to throw, not unhook you or you are tunneled from the 1st second of game). You can be straight up bad and still be iri1. Because it mostly depends on how much you play (sure if you are really bad and just facecamp all games, you will not get to iri ranks, but if you have at least mediocre-to-bad skill, you will eventually reach it). And "couple of times" means I still have about 50hrs on killer for this month only.
Your argument is, all odds are against killer, because I said so ™. From what I can see from my games, it's the other way around. Survivors sweat their asses off. There's never been so many BNP's and violet medkit+styptic/syringe since patch 6.1. And still killers have 60% kill rate. And if this does not work, then let's camp and tunnel - because anyone can do that and it's sure fire way how to quickly win it all. And suddenly you can encounter a pig that has no clue what "mindgame" is, killer players that say looping is impossible, requests to nerf survivors because they can win all the chases. Sure thing - if you got to play against survivors with multiple hours/skill/reflexes to yours because you "lerned" how to camp and tunnel instead of how to win chases, then yes. Those specific survivors are OP. And yet they will still probably loose the game in the end.
About you camping 3gen - because you should have been able to apply pressure before you got into that situation. Because you should have been good enough to create pressure at 3-5 gens. Because all you want is to hold the game hostage. There used to be the same situation in game in past. It was called hatch standoff. If both killer and survivor got to hatch, none could move, because the other one would win the game. You are asking for same thing now - survivors can't go to your 3gen, because it's pointless and you don't want to move away from it, because you are convinced, that you are bad enough to not be able to down anyone in time. So to cut this off the correct solution would be to delete such standoff - make holding 3gen indefinitely impossible. It used to be this way in the past, but after meta shakeup + a few new killers, this holding 3gen is going so much into territory of it being impossible to break, that some killer players have the audacity to ask for it to be even easier. No. The game should be designed so, that it always progresses. That's the reason why EGC was created. Before it, survivors were able to hide indefinitely. This got changed (thanks god). Would you like to go back in time and have survivors be able to hide until server cancels the game again?
And if you don't accept game design's POW why you should leave 3gen when chase opportunity arises. Your personal reason should be very clear. Because camping and not moving the game an inch is boring (and I will say for both sides). At least go down with dignity. Don't be like those last 2 survivors at 3 uncompleted gens that will just hide until the other one is found in hopes of finding a hatch. That's super boring. Enjoy the chases instead. Even if it means you will loose. As a survivor I will rather hop on a gen even if 5 are left to go before I would start to hide. Even if I know I will die precisely because of this. I will at least die after a fun chase. Not standing on a spot like a total sore looser.
And what your suggestion actually "help with" is making sure EVERY killer is able to be in this standoff. That's the EXACT opposite of what the game designers should do with the game. So no. It's not survivors abusing gen tapping. It's you abusing gen kicking perks that are overtuned right now.
Also your suggestion would do exactly NOTHING to reduce camp and tunnel. The only thing it would do is make camping easier and more rewarding = more people doing it. Do you know the time when killers camped in the game the most? It was at patches 6.1 (where camping got buffed) before patch 6.2 (where camping got countered by reassurence). In 6.1 good 50% of killers suddenly turned into face campers, because they could and they knew they just WILL win the game. Right after the patch where survivors got nerfed hard in chases. Right at the patch where killer win rate skirocketed for a few days. At this exact time camping was at it's peak usage. And you say that making camping and tunneling safer because you can block gen even better will deminish it? Don't make me laugh now. You don't believe it yourself.
An abstract of your whole post: "Killer op, killer should let survivors win by design or for personal reasons"... k
But I want to mention a couple of things:
'Your argument is, all odds are against killer, because I said so' I already gave plenty of reasons of why this is a fact, but if you need more here is a comment I did in another post, go and read it as I don't even feel like take the effort to copypaste it here for you: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290569#Comment_3290569
'And what your suggestion actually "help with" is making sure EVERY killer is able to be in this standoff.' 'The only thing it would do is make camping easier and more rewarding = more people doing it.' 'Also your suggestion would do exactly NOTHING to reduce camp and tunnel.' Care to explain how reworking a game mechanic so it explicitly remove the necessity to camp would not only not reduce camping, but make more people do it? And the same logic for the tunneling, as if I don't have the need to take out one survivor ASAP I won't be obligated to target that one survivor I just hooked.
And for the patches part... I have read all the patch notes of that patches and I don't see any instance of camping being buffed... or any other claim you made, in fact. So I will guess that you are sitting down right now in the source of all that included that well rounded, scientifically obtained, totally documented and true percentage of "face camping killers" you used there. But I wasn't playing the game back then, so if I'm wrong you are free to indicate me in which part of the patch notes says any of that (apart of the Reassurance perk)
'And you say that making camping and tunneling safer because you can block gen even better will deminish it?' And yet again, you fail to clarify how and why adding a cooldown to broken generators would make camping and tunneling safer.
Keep trying.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289885#Comment_3289885
No i mean that gen rushing was a thing when brand new part insta did gens. But i could say that its a thing if survivors bring 2 prove, hyperfocus and 4bnps sure...
iri 1 killer isnt a thing anymore... Either way as killer its really important to not give a single F about the first 2 gens maybe even 3 gens... Those gens are gonna get done. It doesnt matter how good or bad you are the only thing that can change that is if the survivors are bad. Yes i dont think this is a good solution because strong killer = guaranteed win... I mean i run bubba with meme perks no addons... Now i used to play a lot of nurse and twins and i mean sure i could go in with double recharge nurse, starstruck, pain res, etc. and win 99.9% of my matches.
So here is where i think we have split opinions...
"right now all the pressure and all the odds are against the killer" - it has always been like that... However a survivor mistake can throw the whole match a killer mistake isnt as punishing and most of the time you can recover. Not only that you can also tunnel people out, slug or camp which isnt a "bad" strategy and i dont really see anything wrong with it. I mean its kinda boring to get camped but whatever. There are also perks to prevent this. Eruption, pain res, surge/jolt, deadlock, chilling trem, corrupt intervention, dead mans switch. If you need more time at the end run no way out etc. So im summary there are tons of things you can do and if you do play all your chases correctly you will win without any problem i mean some people get 300 winstreaks (this also depends on which killer you play but they cant balance each killer to be at the same strength)
Is gen rushing a thing?
As i understood it you think that gen rushing is a thing or well you thought but now you said we agreed it wasnt. I dont think gen rushing is a thing. I could settle with 4 bnps and like provethyself being gen rushing if i had too. I mean sure we can talk about it then. Back in the days gen rushing was a thing i mean before patch 1.5.3 (july 2017 or something like that) bnp insta did generators :p
what the game allow survivors do and abuse?
Abuse what... Killers are the ones who can abuse since most game breaking bugs happens for the killers. Tunneling, doing gens fast isnt abusing.
+ The thing you said with perks that can nullify killers good doings... Which perks? dead hard can be baited, off the record can be dealt with especially if youre close to the hook then its a easy tunnel... DS can be avoided and it sucks now so you catch up really quick, ooo is nerfed, prove thyself makes gens faster sure but if survivors sit with prove thyself they wont split up the pressure. COH can be a little problematic when combined with medkits sure... Reassurance countered by not camping, SB run mindbreaker/fearmonger or just bait it out and chase someone else or ignore them completely... "gen rushing" well run deadlock, pain res or perhaps no way out to buy yourself some extra time at the end...
"However a survivor mistake can throw the whole match a killer mistake isn't as punishing and most of the time you can recover." False. Every hit not done, every DH not baited, every loop failed, pallet hit or survivor missed is time that gen you just kicked is being repaired to completion, and a game where 2-3 gens are done without having fully hooked at least a survivor is almost a lost game unless they f up in some way (and right now survivors are doing that amount after having kicked 2 gens, hurting 2 of them and hooked one for the first time without even bloodlust activating). And you saying this and that you can win "99.9%" of games with any killer, I don't care how much "op" you think some killer or addons are makes me think you don't play as killer as much as you say you do.
And I'm talking about core game mechanics, but you don't stop bringing perks and addons to the mix, which of course, if game mechanics are changed would need to be rebalanced, but again, without taking in count perks, tools, map generation or anything else, some base game mechanics need a change because yes, survivor abuse them and is provoking a lot of things that people complain about. It is a fact.
But hey, if you want to talk about perks and all the things on top of the abusable game mechanics fine, let's talk about them: Killers being against the clock "has always been like that", the thing is people don't play the game now as they played it then, and survivors didn't have the plethora of speed boost, second chances, self healing and anti-tunneling protection they have now. Things that even if a killer play in the most perfect way possible, can throw away it's accomplishments with the push of a button. On top of that and even more importantly, something that survivors seems to forget, it's that they have the biggest advantage there is as "base kits": Numbers. Numbers, coordination and even communication. Let's break them down like a gen:
· Numbers: Self explanatory. 4 people * 4 perks per person + 4 tools = 32 things that can get in the way of the killer and nullify his efforts. Even without the other two, being 4 is the main advantage of survivors (and how the game is designed right now, even more) as even if they are not organized or even good players they can do a lot together. Hell, even the noobiest noob with a flashlight or Prove Thyself can do a lot for their team. Add skilled players with good perk builds to the equation and doesn't matters who the killer decide to chase, they would make that chase a nightmare, hopping from pallet to pallet, window to window, to the end of times while his other 3 partners are doing whatever they feel like. And when there is only one of those, well, just go for the weak, but when there is 4 people like that, with flashlights to blind you or sabotage the hook you where going to, makes every chase a gamble against all odds and waist of time even when you succeed, even more if you have to drop that chase.
· Coordination: Again, self explanatory. And no, I'm not talking just about SWF squad with Discord, that's the next part. Even 4 SoloQ players that know what they are doing can coordinate to f the killer. Some examples: If I am with another survivor in a gen, the killer comes and start chasing the other guy, I will just hide beside the generator and continue fixing it had the killer kicked it or not and putting him in a lose / lose situation whatever he do. If I see a survivor being downed I will stay close and if there is a hook close, I will sabotage it, or if I'm not injured I will try to block the killer so him can escape. And no, I'm not complaining of survivors helping each other and cooperating, that's the main fun of the game... but I think you would agree that this is still an advantage survivors have.
· Communication: This is the big one. This is the one and main advantage that every survivor main I have seen in this forums ignore at the scream of "Won't somebody pLeAsE think of the SoloQ players?". It's so much an advantage that I think any killer can notice when even a two SFW with voicetalk are in the game. SWF using meta communications allow survivors to not only make use of the other advantages to perfection using perk builds, tools and roles to transform their squad in an "killer time losing Swiss knife" prepared to deal with anything the killer can throw at them, they can do the most unfair thing for the killer and most advantageous thing for survivors... TALK. They can literally pinpoint the killer position to their friends, warn them when him is going their direction, told them where the gens are, when the killer is or isn't chasing them, when to cross paths so one of the others takes a hit for them, when and where to be prepared to drop a pallet or flashlight the killer to prevent a grabbing... etc, etc, and etc.
So, unless you are a person with the survivor mentality of "killer being able to attack is so op, nerf m1", any other guy would say that survivors start with some great base advantages over the "Not-so-unstoppable killer", even when comparing the utilities both have at his disposal. Because yes, killers has some really good and strong perks (let's take aside the fact that many of this perks have being nerfed or reworked so they are easily avoidable and survivors can effectively make a perk slot of the killer totally useless), but for strong they are, they are still just 4 perks. Doesn't matters what advantage they give the killer, the amount of advantages survivors perks gives them on top of the base advantages they have by design are abysmal. Oh, but we are not done yet! Now is time to awnser your question...
"what the game allow survivors do and abuse? Abuse what..."
Well, just to name a few of the things, from less advantageous to god tier:
· Locker spamming: You are chasing a survivor, the survivor get to a locker in front of your face and start spamming space trying to stun you if you are fool enough to get close and avoid getting hit in the process. Easy avoidable, more a nuance than anything, but makes you waste a couple of your precious seconds to stop it, even more if you hit them just when getting in again, what locks the survivor in the animation and takes a couple of seconds more for them to get out in dying state.
· Body blocking: Getting in the way of the killer to make him run out the time for hook someone, putting the killer in the situation to have to hit him, being even more slowed down and losing more time, or walk in zigzag to avoid them at the same time you suffer the grabbed survivor struggle (combine this with Boil Over for the most fun experience). This usually don't work, but some times do, and even if it doesn't is annoying like hell.
· Map positions with no hooks: Sometimes, map generation don't put hooks close to some part of the maps. This is still a thing just as infinite loops whatever anybody says. It happens less, but it still happens. Survivors, when knowing they are going down, will just go to this places knowing that if you try to hook them you won't have enough time to do so. Even better, get to a high place while having Boil Over and it would be impossible for you to hook them, bad map generation or not. This have a simple solution, but then they would cry "slugging" when the game is over...
· Generator tapping: This is what is making play as a killer feel bad, because is what survivors are abusing like hell every single game right now (at least the ones I play) and is the core to a lot of things all people complains as it only generates lose / lose situations for the killer forcing him to tunnel, to 3gen camp or equip NOED so he can try to do something at the end game and makes him feel being "gen rushed" as I already said. The main case of this abuse is up to 2 or 3 survivors will gangbang a generator no matters what, and if the killer comes the moment he he turns around one would at minimum tap it and revert the break down before keep running, if the killer even bothers to kick it in a situation like that. But that is just one! Survivors would tap stop the break down mid-chase, would hide close to the gen and not one second after the killer isn't looking tap it and hide again, hell, they will even get a hit if they aren't injured to tap it and even finish it mid chase if they know there is little progress left to go, because they know that whatever the killer do, in that situation, he loses.
So yeah, there is some abuse of game mechanics survivors do in a per game basis. Hell, even me have done the gen tapping thing as a survivors in almost every game I have the chance and I just play survivor for farming BP and getting challenges / dailys done.
And just for fun... "Killers are the ones who can abuse since most game breaking bugs happens for the killers" lol I don't know what bugs killers had, but I can told you two that survivors have right now and was done to me: One guy hopped on top of the ladder's railing in Backwater swamp, making me impossible to grab him. He will just stay there waiting for his friend to come and heal him... to bad for him I dropped the game and dedicated my time to make sure he just died by slowly and painful bleeding. And the other (even tho I don't know if it was a bug or hacks) survivors can open the lockers's doors without even stoping or hopping it mid chase, making them open, make the noise, but keep running, which is distracting and annoying as hell, apart of allowing them to confuse the killer and make him wast time because he is sure the survivor went to a locker.
So, taking all this in count we can conclude that: all this game mechanics abuse + base advantages survivors have specially the ability to voicetalk and coordinate + perks that a good player would use with godly precision making killer lose time even for baiting it + not avoidable perks like speedboost + base speed boost and slow down for killer on hit + tools savings = playing this game as killer against 4 skilled survivors full tryhard perk build (even worst if SWF with voicechat) is like playing basketball 1 vs 4 while you are wearing an ankle weight, you can only score alley hoops to yourself, there are 8 balls in game and if someone wears some kind of shoes can take the ball out of your hands without you being able to resist, and if you somehow beat all the odds and win, someone would be mad because "You holded the ball for 30 seconds straight!"... is bs, is frustrating and many times feels like the game is designed for killers to make survivors feel good, something that many survivors seems to really believe.
Now, what I'm saying is "Hey, I'm fine with all the other stuff, but can we at least change some of the outdated basic and abusable rules, like allowing me to take out of the game a couple of balls for a short time so you can't rapid fire me before I can even do a proper alley hoop and I don't have to resort to tactics nobody likes for winning?" and all I hear is "survivors are defenseless, playing killer is easy, git good".
So again, is not about perks, is not about bugs, is not even about skill, it's about removing one of the game mechanics that survivors abuse so the game can be better for everybody, including survivors, as right now is the main disease that is provoking much of the symptoms people complain about. And if you don't understand it by now, well, I have nothing more to say, so have a nice day and we'll met in the fog.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289946#Comment_3289946
No I said you want win or possibility to take the game hostage but never loose. That is problem. You are problem as you want such an interactions.
Also in my killer games (which is something that I do much more now than survivor, because survivor now got crazy tryhard stressful to actually have a chance to open a gate every 3rd game at best) I have no problem commiting to chase and wining the game if I chase correctly. To be frank it's quite easy from 6.1 onwards. And to fully clarify - now I am getting survivors which play survivor better then I do - even if I have 1/5th of my survivor hours on killers (and play multiple killers). And I still win more then I loose - even though I don't camp or tunnel. Even if I can't use every subtle mechanics of the game (like noticing all the crows that flew back and chasing accordingly). Killers are dead easy right now. Because holding 3gen (not indefinitely, but long enough to hook someone multiple times) is so easy. But then again I understand that I will not win every game with 7 unrepaired gens. I don't mind that in first chase there's a very good possibility 1 gen will pop. I know that the game will get much slower when 1 person will be in chase, 1 would be slugged or healing, 1 would be hooked and only 1 would be on a generator. And I know that if my chase takes 2 minutes to down a survivor, then I am loosing and it's normal for survivors to actually earn that win. But it's rare that they are able to do something with all the killer buffs developers are silently doing
I want those interactions... because you say I want those interactions even after explaining in detail how I don't want them and how what I suggest would not have that effect? Please, explain to me how do you come to that conclusion even after explaining it in detail to you and how what I'm proposing is going to provoke "such an interactions". It would be great if you can also even try to contra-argument any of the things I have said to you in my response to your assumptions instead of just trying to lecture an Iridescent Rank 1 killer on how to be a good one with "I play as killer couple of times, killer op not buff".
Being killer is not easy, is stressful and frustrating, and as I have the same conversation with someone in another post I'm going to copypaste my answers to you because you are making exactly the same arguments (survivor mentality, I guess):
'And all you said about "what makes a good killer" is true and that's how it has to be in theory (again, Iridescent Rank 1 killer here! I didn't get it by not getting people in loops!)... that doesn't mean the game isn't unbalanced by design, and the way the game works right now all the pressure and all the odds are against the killer. And all of this without taking in count perks, tools and map generation, which only makes things worst and/or directly allows survivors to nullify killers good doing."
"You win most your games as I win mine: Not all players are good, not all players have the right build, not all the players are coordinated full SWF with voice talk, and all players sooner or later will make a mistake no matter how skillful they are. This doesn't means that there isn't core game mechanics that maybe worked fine in the past, but right now only let survivors abuse them and get an unfair advantage.'
And about the 3gen "hostage" situation:
'Why I would try to go chase someone, even less with just 1 gen to go, when that is giving them the chance to start a gen with me not being able to stop them to be repaired even for a second? Even if two survivors are left, the moment I chase one the other would repair, I stop the chase, patrol gens, see one is being repaired, kick it, and again, the lose / lose situation: Go search for the one I was chasing and give the one that is probably hiding close to the gen to keep repairing, or stay, search around the gen, find and chase the one hiding, pray he doesn't tap the gen in his run away, and while all this is happening give the other survivor the chance to start repairing other gen or come to the one I was and continue repairing, either way is back to the same situation as before... hell no, if I get to have 3 close up gen I will keep patrolling them even if I see a survivor in the distance, and if they make a mistake and I'm able to hook them great, if not, 1 hour game and I didn't win, but I didn't lose either. It's shifting the pressure back to the survivors and is the smart thing to do and because how the game works right now, it's the only safe choice to make for the killer here. Even if I wanted to go after someone in that situation, doing it would only give them a chance to win. This is also the reason perks like CoB is so much used, because it give me the option to not having to care about the gens for a while at least.'
And it is why my suggestion would help even with the 3gen holding situation, because... :
'[...] what is a thing and it is the core to much of the things survivors and killers complain alike is what the game allow survivors do and abuse which leads to the previously mentioned situations (one of the big ones, if not the biggest there is right now, again, is what I already said many times including my first comment and a post I made earlier) , which forces killers to tunnel to get a survivor out of the picture as soon as possible, force them to slug them if they can't reach a hook because it is better to have them bleeding on the ground and lose points if they don't get back up that making you lose more time, and unless you can do any of this things forces you to keep an eye on the generators and hope you get an easy kill instead of going after the survivors because every second a generator get progress is a second you are more close to lose, which again, leads to lose / lose situations for the killer the majority of the time, including what people call "gen rushing".'
Now, I hope your next answer has some more argumentation.