DjEnderFox107
DjEnderFox107
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@_Onyx_ said:
What would be the point in hitting a Deep Wounded Survivor with Frenzy to give them a status effect when you can go for an M1 and down them?
And how would trying to repeatedly hit someone to give them status effects give them skill expression.
With legion it’s not as simple as getting a down by hitting M1. The exhaustion would help for people with lithe, balance landing, dead hard, etc. Incapacitated So when survivors decide to not mend in legions power they are forced to mend. Hindered so if a chase is lasting too long there is a better chance to down them especially if they have made for this. And finally Oblivious if the chase last longer than expected for more assistance.
Yes I agree with this change there wouldn’t be much of a skill difference to the present legion, but with BHVR not doing anything to make any changes to bad killers, I’ve dumbed it down to smaller changes, I’ve post other discussions with bigger changes to legion.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
and it still can. Of course, there will need to be something to differentiate them and maintain their identity. Chucky will have his stealth and to not alienate the current Legion userbase, I propose that instead of Legion having the stealth component like Chucky's Hidey-Ho, Legion will return to being 4.4m/s (like way back in the day) and when entering into Frenzy, you have 14 seconds like the original to vault over pallets and windows. Then you can dash to hit a survivor. Along with vaults resetting the dash, hitting a survivor will reset the dash unless you aren't holding m2 which is when the power will prematurely end. This can be used to chain injuries and EVEN downs should they all be grouped up. (Theoretically if they're all together and all injured, you could down every single one of them if they don't scatter immediately like they should.) We lost out heavily on what they could've been and this would be what forever cements Legion as a fun killer with insane potential (even more so than Chucky as Legion has the capability to chain dash hits).
Facts😂
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595920#Comment_3595920
In that case the whole thing sounds like a big nerf... The whole split up thing still counters him, his mend is faster, he needs to spend more time for even getting someone into mending and then maybe not even more out of it. Sure he gets longer mend in a higher tier, but also becomes slower with vaulting windows, so just hugging a good window probably just makes him run out of his power.
Yeah I heard something similar so I wouldn’t make it 50% slower vaulting speed to 30% or 25%. I was only being generous with the negatives so legion didn’t seem overpower like how burger king myers exist. I made the mend time quick so it didn’t become a mending sim like it always is currently.Also I’m pretty sure vaulting passes the power so he wouldn’t lose it after vaulting unless you did it last minute
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@Devil_hit11 said:
apparently in his develop, Legion was said to have Michael tier's where he had to stalk you to get his ability. I think that stalking/build-up mechanic are bad design for killers because it add time-sink to the killer who is already had time disadvantage.
The only time you can justify time sinks like that is on killer that have mori's such Tombstone Myer's and Sadako. This is because Mori inherently is time-save so it makes sense for character with mori to have time-sinks into their kit.
Note : Legion would need to find the perfect time to frenzy the survivor otherwise he could get looped and get pushed off into cooldown. If he does get his first hit easily said by just hugging the survivor he then gets only half to time to stab the survivor again to apply mending which if the survivor has lithe or other methods in getting away legion ends up going into cooldown. So the survivor has to learn how to mind game the legion by 360, confusing him by vaulting, make him miss of even just running a good loop.
Legion's fundamental problem is that there is no way to counter-play his feral frenzy to not get hit because of his ability to vault pallets and m1 after vaulting a pallet. A good killer will not miss and will not get mind-gamed by 360 or anything wiggle that a survivor does at base-kit. You can't make a good killer m1 swings. If killer m1 swing, they made huge error in gameplay.
this leaves legion with fundamental problem. With no ability to down survivors in feral frenzy, he becomes a weak m1 killer that get defeated by regular loop tactics. My suggestion would be to make it that survivor can activate an on-demand 25% haste bonus to wiggle his m1 attack by acquiring an item from a trial. This item has 10 second cooldown to be used. After that, you can buff legion by making him decrease deep wound timer by 1/4 per feral slash. I outline a rework at one point which involved make each feral frenzy slash reducing deep wound timer by 1/4, 2/4, 3/4 and 4/4 for each consecutive initial slash. A follow-up slash reduces timer by 1/4. This means that you can hit Survivor 1, Survivor 2, and then hit 2 times for survivor 3 to go down OR hit survivor 4. The item that provides 25% add counter-play for survivor to wiggle while buffed feral frenzy gives legion anti-loop.
The rework also included other buffs such as lowering his feral frenzy recharge rate(12 seconds), lowering his TR per injured survivor to encourage people to heal and reworking his killer instinct to be static 40 meters that is unaffected by TR perks, Oblivious and Undetectable.
If you want to play a version legion that similar, you can play Chucky. Chucky is Legion 2.0 but with special attack balanced around wiggling gameplay. Legion can be something similar but needs rework+a lot of fine-tuning to get there.
Oh trust me I know chucky is just a better legion😂thanks for the feedback! I might make a new discussion with something similar!
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595859#Comment_3595859
But Legions power is not really that interesting in that sense, and it does not become more interesting if you have to stab the same person more than once. Do you still need to hit 3 different survivors or the same survivor 3 times? Because if you have to hit the same person twice just for mending then this whole thing sounds just awful.
It is completely fine for legion to use his m1 to get a down and not always get a down with his power as it currently is... But if you can just hit the same survivor over and over again then we are basically at OG Legion, which was the worst thing they ever created.
Well no? If you read hitting the same survivor would only get you half the time of frenzy. Give his power more use when there is only one or two survivors instead of relying on multiple survivors being in one place, the survivor would gain the mending effect after two frenzy stab and again if you read hitting the same survivor gains you stacks which after 2 stabs you gain two stacks and after that you get a down. Getting into cool down loses all stacks. What I didn’t mention which I take all the blame is I guess I would make it to when trying to hit multiple survivors the first survivor gains no mending effect but the survivor after does.
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@poppylilly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595745#Comment_3595745
I honestly don’t think legion needs a rework its more based on what are his perks and add ons that make it a easy or hard game so reworking them around the frenzy would cause me to throw them aside because then i have to chase everyone in frenzy and thats not fun for anyone most people already dislike Leigon for the frenzy mending
Well yeah that why I decreased the time of mending and didn’t make it easy to apply. But I don’t blame you, legion is not going to get work on in a long time or at all even based on Behaviors new road map
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595745#Comment_3595745
Because his power does not get complicated in execution, just in explaining how it works... This is why it is overly complicated. Also I don't really see an advantage of this thing over the current version, like what exactly is the goal?
The goal is the make legion able to end chase without have to M1 survivors. To make where is viable I added a tier system. If I made it to be like old legion, you would pretty much have a Michael myers that can pop his ability anytime he wants with no counter play. You can also look at nemesis, he’s don’t given tier 3 at the beginning of the match others he would be too powerful!
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@Archol123 said:
I really don't see how this would make him more interesting to go against or play... It is still just the same old power but with extra steps that make him way to complicated for such an easy concept.
Well yeah, that’s kinda the point😅 His power isn’t suppose to be overly changed and those extra steps give him an acceptable way to down survivors while not making super easy. Yeah he’s known as an easy killer but that doesn’t mean he has to be, other killers have complex abilities and also techs so why not legion ?
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@bjorksnas said:
I think it might be more interesting to give legion different kinds of frenzies instead of tiers of frenzies which this seems to be going more towards
also 5.2m/s + gain 0.3m/s + stab 3 times to down someone + 15s duration + you can stab the same survivor twice to deep wound so you can hit them a third time any way would mean you can down a single survivor independent of others very quickly even with the normal vault speed in frenzy
I Could make another discussion about legion having different frenzies. With the current discussion you left out the negatives of tier 3 would make downing a survivor viable. The reason why he can’t down a survivor is because how easily you could do it back then. And downing a survivor isn’t any easier when you are just left with M1 killer. Trust me I appreciate the feedback!
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@Raconteurminator said:
I've read this three times now, and I can't see it as anything other than a massive nerf. I admire your commitment to this and the thought you've put into it, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. I guess look into the vaulting nerfs; 50% is an insane reduction. A fast vault is 0.5 seconds, Legion's vault in Frenzy is 0.9 seconds, while a normal Killer vault is 1.7 seconds. That nerf would being his vault speed in Frenzy to just faster than a slow vault (1.5 seconds).
Oh okay thank you ! I was being really generous and tried to put in nerfs and buffs in at the same time but if that’s the case then I would probably can the vault speed to be a bit quicker like in Tier 2 10% and Tier 3 20%. And probably remove the whole animation increase. Thanks for the feedback!
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594155#Comment_3594155
The point is legions mending basically slows the game down, but infected survivors usually don't want to cleanse to not give plague her power. The point is to heal against legion is a bad call because he can injure you really easy, so unless you want to unhook or something you should not heal. Plague however gains more power through her fountains and people need to be strategic about where to cleanse as to not give her a fountain Ina good position. So there you have a skill full component for the survivors: knowing when to cleanse and where to do it. And as Plague the skill lies in using the power and when to get it. Legion basically does not have a power that is that masterfully, just look at what wild hits some plagues tend to get. The trajectory is really something else.
Yeah trust me I completely get that! I have heard from a lot of people with how legion frenzy since you can easily control him until blight with his ping pong, Wesker with just a straight dash, And chunky with his dash ability which I don’t know the name of. That’s why for me I can’t decide if legion would need the mending ability to do something more or remove it all together for a different ability. I’ll post another idea which I thought of which would be like nemesis and I’ll see how others think about that! Thanks for the feedback!
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@Archol123 said:
So he can only ever hit one person in frenzy but that person has to go even more out of their way to mend? So basically people are annoyed because Legion is mending simulator and you increase the length of the whole mending thing + make it item reliable therefore risking running into the killer when going for the item? Nah dude, not a good plan... Think of something that actually gives Legion something skillfully to do, but I don't know what because his kit is rather simple and if a killer is that easy I think it is fine that he is only around average..
Yeah you’re right! I didn’t think of it that way. I thought with how easy plague has to infect people and make them broken then push them to need to cure themselves putting the risk into running into her while not being able to heal themselves would be something legion could also acquire similarly
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@Avo said:
Guys lmao, what do you think for real? Making your character p100 then get those bloodpoints back? That consider as cheating
I mean how much BP do you really think you would get from a p100? For commons only 1000bp each, that’s nothing? You have over 1000 commons all you will get is 1 million bp which doesn’t get you even one prestige, maybe if you get just commoms and no ultra rares? If that doesn’t tickle your fancy behavior could do a trade up system instead where you trade 5 commoms for 1 uncommon etc etc
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@Nos37 said:
The whole point is that killers can camp and tunnel without needing any perk slots AND can throw on NOED to do more damage should the survivors actually try to do the right thing when the killer camps / tunnels.
This shouldn't be defended.
Not that any of you are; you're just here to prove me wrong and call me a loser. The description for the Feedback & Suggestion category should be changed from "Our team will be happy to read these!" to "Our forum users would love to tear these up."
Feels bad but truthfully honest that how everyone is, read all my post, nothing is positive everyone call the other dumb this this and that. You never end up getting behavior actually commenting on the issue until enough people complain and they start losing revenue. If it doesn’t make behavior they will put it aside until the next couple of years. Never was trying to be mean but it ends up happening anyways with how toxic we all can be in this community
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593483#Comment_3593483
You want me to use 3 perk slots to counter the killer's 1 perk (on top of the camping / tunneling they can do for free)?
Noted.
Yeah? That’s what perks are for? You don’t get a 3 in 1 like shampoo, it’s just the same way you see killers using all 4 perks slots on gen regression instead of chase perks or other fun perks because survivors have gotten good at the game and gen rushed. There is a thing called synergy get that noted instead
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@roundpitt said:
Does anyone know why Blight's addons have not been nerfed? Has Behavior said anything about it? Also, when is Blight "Hug Tech" getting fixed?
Why not just learn on how to counter blight?
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/398047/selling-items-from-bloodweb
We should be able to resell items for iri shards.
I wish, put since ire shards are a counter to behavior to make money off of cosmetics. I made a post to add ire shards to daily rituals but didn’t get much of a response out of it
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593462#Comment_3593462
You misread. I said hook the same survivor twice in a row.
At that point behavior might as well make the survivor rule book a real thing. Plus to your comment there’s off the record, made for this, hope. If you are struggling so bad either use perks to help or just get better at running from NOED
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593459#Comment_3593459
Did you genuinely just forget that you already responded to this?
I think what he’s getting at is that noed should still be a hex, but deactivate when near a hook or when you down 1 survivor 😂
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@Ink_Eyes said:
I would love to be able to chose killer/survivor rituals, sometimes I get a ritual like ''be chased by the killer' and I play mostly killer. Those rituals usually stay there until I can recycle them..
True ! They could easily implement 6 daily challenges, always giving out 3 for survivors and Killers. I always play both sides so I would love to challenges for both sides so I’m not forced to play one side mainly for blood points
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@codebibi said:
i'm facing more and more legion recently and the ability spam mending simulator combine with thanatophobia is a nightmare for survivors. her cooldown duration is the same time it take for a survivor to mend and this really need to be adress, and with how thanatophobia is right now this is impossible to heal and it takes at least 2:30 to 3 minutes to do a gen with all 4 survivors injured. the 12% bonus when all survivors are injured is to big and make this perk way to overpowered on legion. her ability cooldown should at least be doubled or tripled.
For how weak legion is, no . You have more worse gen slowdowns like Hex pentimento. All you need to do is work on gens, yeah it’s gonna take longer but someone on your team can just run him around a loop before he gets frustrated and leaves
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@Waksnap said:
I completely agree! As a seasoned survivor there’s ways out of almost any situation for survivors where as killers have select options. Killers should be able to tunnel/camp etc. and the survivors need to learn how to play against it instead of getting so toxic! Playing with friends helps in these situations whereas in solo ques, nobody helps their teammates, a key reason why people get irritated at tunneling and camping etc. Yes its hard to communicate with your team but you can tell a lot about where people are by just looking for crows or having info perks!
If communication is one of the issues of the match why have a scroll wheel ( Like Apex Legends) with quotes so you can relay to you’re team during the match. That could be one of many easy solutions for solo ques
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@dwight444 said:
but let's be honest, most play this way because they know they will struggle otherwise. Not cause the survivors are so good , the killer is just inherently bad at the game
Yeah you’re absolutely right. Skill is a need to win a game and some people don’t want to use skill. It depends on how people want to play the game. Some people want to play casually and don’t play like try hards, Mixing those two types of styles ends up with someone getting mad.
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@dwight444 said:
op made a post and then 2 burner acc 💀
? I’m confused 🤣
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544524#Comment_3544524
Why do you keep doing this with people's posts? It doesn't make their statement look bad, it just makes you look weird.
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@CookieBaws said:
This perk is way too good. We need some limits to its power or something.
Made for this is way too good. We need some limits to its power or something.
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Just give killers built in bloodlust 1, brutal strength, and enduring and we will be all gooodddd
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/391510/make-legion-great-again
I think it is fine that he is a low tier killer, he has very little killer specific things to learn about him and basically with a few hours and some tutorial videos there is barely a difference between good and bad players. It would need a full rework to justify making him stronger. Because currently what is there to learn about him? The Legion "tech" where you get blinded in your power mid vault and then m1 the guy blinding you so he gets downed, maybe decision making whether to follow someone with your power or change targets or whatever, but I already don't really see that as killer specific but more general killer gameplay, basically the overall macro game.
Well yeah that’s why I would love a rework on him, I even made a post about making his add-ons stronger atleast to make him playable. What I’m mainly saying is to add some skill and tech to legion. For me vaulting isn’t something to make him strong especially when killers such as blight, oni, hillbilly, leatherface, demongorgon, nemesis, and singularity can easily remove them.
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@Emeal said:
bHVR is generally against gutting killers who have fans for no reason
I want him gutted like salmon and served on a golden plater
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@KaTo1337 said:
Your boy was touched last year.
First, its finally time for my FREDDY to receive... something... or so
That’s reasonable, I think with Freddy he should send people to the nightmare dimension instead of hooking survivors, something like pyramid head. While I’m this dimension they have to get snapped out by a survivor or they will die
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@blithes said:
i'm talking specifically about the sloppy butcher addons, especially since medkits have been gutted so heavily. n even worse some addons have both debuffs in one addon. i really don't see how this is fair as where some killers only have 4 perks and 1 addon, some killers have essentially 5 perks, and another addon. i don't think particularly think the blindness and exhaustion addons are that bad because from the top of my head i don't think they can be applied at the same time (except for maybe huntress, but even then they only last for a period of time), or at the very least they have a timer on them.
Why not just remove killer add-ons that apply debuffs and then give killers a fifth perk slot
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@TheTom20 said:
There is also a basment challenge which has been bugged for a think a few weeks now
Yo I thought it was just me? I got so many basement hooks but no update.
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I take her home
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Remove add-ons all together
Make killers weak so all survivors can escape
Truth be told, Most killer require skill, you give a new player Blight with his powerful add-ons, you gonna escape. If you know killers have a certain add-ons just learn ways to counter it. You can say well how do you counter my era with his infinite tier three, just do gens and hide as much as possible without helping him to get to tier three.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6HG8LSHBMF9Y/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6DJN4CC6UFSY/image.png
Will the flashlight issue be fixed before the tome closes? Or will we just not be able to do this challenge?
Can’t you still get a flashlight from the secret chest on the new alien map?
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Buff legion and we will be all good
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542533#Comment_3542533
I can get behind this...
Let's make it as lasers, so we get some star wars vibes.
Dang I was just joking but if you were to take it seriously you could make drone shoot something at the survivors and would function like trickers knifes to injury them, could be very powerful on looks and to leave them on gens. I would for sure make it to were you can get rid of them with flashlights instead of interacting with them
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Drones roaming around...
How is that exactly new idea? It's probably most spammed and really bad for merchant rework idea.
When I want to play with weird AI, I will play Knight. I hate this copy/paste ideas.
It's just 100% nerf and makes it simply worse version of killer we have.
Make drone shoot pebbles at people like trickers knifes
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/391491/quiting-this-game
It’s not fun, it’s not scary
So it's fun when you get to escape for you...
But how would any buff for survivors make it scarier? Oh no, it's easy to escape, so scary....
No terror radius add extra spook
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@Zokenay said:
Never Sleep Pills are essentially the combo addon, alongside that other one that increases movement speed (forgot the name)
With this combo, if you arent dealing on a huge map, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a Frenzy down.
Also, Iri Button is pretty damn strong, if used alongside Julie's Mixtape and Enduring, you straight up have an anti pallet build, add Spirt Fury into the mix and pallets are essentially a non issue.
Anyway, Legion isnt meant to consistently get high combos, that would just be dumb, and it shows with the combo i mentioned earlier, the game just becomes boring for both sides.
Yeah Never sleep pills with mural Sketch doesn’t necessarily give you a down, It’s not the craziest combo, it’s a combo that sometimes works and can also be counter by survivors very easily who know how to deal with a legion. I don’t want a killer that is super map dependent.
With your ire Build, even that isn’t super strong as you have blight, nemesis, hillbilly, leatherface and singularity that eat pallets like it’s nothing. Then you also have nurse and pyramid head who can easily ignore pallets very easily.
Legion is weak in the current state as he is and making his add-ons help with what he’s power is actually suppose to do would make him more playable
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@Alice_pbg said:
honestly... I just want susie's mix tape to be a brown so I can have more of it. that guitar is everything. kinda wish the chase music was tied to the character and not the add-on.
and big maps are quite annoying... yes. had quite the bad match on borgo yesterday.
Yeah with Susie’s mix tape definitely could easily switch it with something like scratches ruler or mischief list as those are pretty good add ons. But I would love to see some more buffs for these add-ons
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@Cynwale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/373598/remove-the-killers-terror-radius
I hard disagree, Survivors need it, even the best SWF would get raped if Terror Radius didn't exist.
Yes as mentioned in the discussion i mention just reducing the terror radius could make the game a little more scarier
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@Cynwale said:
I think, there should be a rarity/addon system.
For exemple, yellow medkit = 1 addon, brown medkit no addon, green medkit 2 addon, purple medkit 3 addons.
And for Bloodweb, add a random factor of getting more units into the same case, like 2 or 3.
For Killers, 3 addons could be cool, it would give more speed movement and we would less use Tunneling as Gens won't pop that often.
These are the ideas I love to see☺️
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@SeaFlower said:
I think this would be too complicated to balance
Yes and I completely understand!! The more killers that are added to the game the more it becomes difficult to add any changes that adds a true balance to the game. They could put it in a PTB and see how the community makes of it and see which killers become the most powerful and try to balance those add ons. You could even make it to were you can only put on one ire add on but that would just limit the killers even more.
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@SeaFlower said:
Terror Radius size doesn’t need a change.
Oh yes sorry about that!😂 I forgot to put in the discussion that these are more of a want then a needed change, I put that down for each one of my post, my bad!
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Hey and that’s completely fine ! No one needs to agree with me and everyone has their beliefs but what I’m trying to say if before anyone should make a statement you should at least listen to what the other person has to say😂 this is what discussions are made for after all.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410070#Comment_3410070
That's what you get for using a click bait title.
Yeah but this just proves that some people in the community don’t care about what you say or what your argument is.
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@CursedPerson said:
No Terror radius is one of the balancing mechanisms. Imagine if Huntress had no terror radius/lullaby, you could walk up to them and surprise hit them and hatchet them in 5 seconds. if you want to sneak up on survivors use perks or addons that hide or reduce your terror radius.
I’m assuming that you just read the title and nothing that I discussed 😅
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/373598/remove-the-killers-terror-radius
All killers down to 16m? With M&A equipped down to 8m? Because all would run that as well with this.
Nope nope nope.
😂😂 Like I mentioned some perks would have to be adjusted to fit this change more.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Lately there was a lot of posts about this game dying, as always.
I have seen lots of complaining about tunneling and camping. Even tho my experience was quite good even as soloQ, but that's anecdotal.
Funny to me is that I don't think there is a way to play killer except losing that survivors wouldn't complain about.
I would just like to find out what you see as a playstyle, which would be managable to balance for 60% kill rate, but also acceptable to play against.
So what killer can do:
Tunnel?
Best way currently to win, survivors hate it
Camping?
Also good way to win, got nerfed (by perk) and survivors hate it a lot
Slugging?
Hate it almost as much as camping. Three killers basically have to do it.
3-gen?
Another good way to win, got nerfed hard and survivors hate it. Even tho some killers are really bad without this.
End-game build?
It allowed more friendly playstyle with chance of comeback later, got nerfed (NOED). Most survivors hate it.
Hit&run?
This was really bad for long time, because of CoH. It got comeback this patch. I have already seen complains on it. Most players also don't like Legion, who is one of best killers for this. Survivors want to chase, but killer won't do it.
Slow-down stacking?
Got nerfed probably most, you could basically do whatever you wanted, because you had time for it. There was lot of complaining on slow-down perks. Most of them were nerfed significantly.
Zoning / anti-loop?
Not sure if this should be single category, but we can see how much hate Knight get. Also lot of complaining about all new anti-loop killers. Survivors don't like hold W, but neither do killers.
Playing top tier killer?
Yeah, Nurse and Blight are so popular between survivors...
So far only acceptable way would be 12 hooking, without top tier killer, without stacking slow-downs.
How the hell you want to balance for that...
Not really no😅 Most survivors will get salty no matter what you do or what build you have. As long as you the killer lose and they get to tea bag you at the end that’s all that matters for them. That’s why most survivors cried over Deadhard being nerfed😂. I would just say play the game how you want to play. It’s 2023 so make this year even the survivors rule book doesn’t exist the year you don’t follow anybodys rules