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@Brimp said:
They're literally planning to buff it back to 100% heal speed. 8 second heals even altruistic ones are still VERY powerful with being able to reset an entire team in less than 15 seconds while all regression is nerfed besides pain res which even with 25% its still limited to 4 uses so still not really that good.
Do you really expect for survivors to have enough even after changes that would just unbalance the game and was made only because of their cries? Nah man, bring self healing back to CoH and revert the changes to DH. Not to make it like before this PTB, but to the old DH.
And even then, this game would be killer sided and the only thing BHVR do is making them more OP in every patch.
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Yeah BHVR! Keep listening to the cries of the masses and give each side it's candy so they shut up instead of balancing the game!
Reverting the altruistic heal changes and buffing CoH while maintaining the nerfs to regression would probably just unbalance the game even more, but hey! You also reverted Billy's changes, so we got a candy after the colonoscopy! Thanks for all the good decisions you make, BHVR! I'm a masochist, so I will keep playing killer no matter what you do (as long as you don't nerf Billy, of course)...
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@Yffriium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392831#Comment_3392831
You're discounting several things to make this argument. You say it takes 3 survivors 12 seconds to reset, which lacks a lot of nuance. For one, it requires all three survivors to first run to the same location, which takes time. Also, you neglect the amount of time it takes to set up the boon (14 seconds booning + 40 minutes finding a dull totem). To be conservative, we really should double the time you say: 24 seconds for 3 survivors to reset. 12 seconds spent running to each other, 12 seconds spent healing. Even still, we are neglecting the time it takes for survivors to run back to whatever they were doing after healing, but we will ignore that for now.
Making 3 survivors take 24 seconds is the equivalent of 72 man-seconds. That's almost a full generator, spent on healing. Meanwhile, your gens are regressing, you've kicked some pallets, & you're almost certainly chasing the last survivor or have their hook timer ticking down. If not, then you can always walk over to the 75% of the team healing and interrupt, applying pressure to all but one survivor, forcing either a down on one survivor who was yet to full heal, or causing other survivors to take hits & waste all that time running and healing.
Oh, now we have to take in count all of those things? It is not simply "altruistic should be lower because self healing make us waste the double of the time amount healing because my favorite streamer said so" and the point is made? Now we have to take in count walking times, finding another person to do the healing and real scenarios instead of just the mathematical theory?
Anyway, to answer your points: Perks or map to see totem auras and now CoH would show the auras of the injured survivor inside of it. Taking in count the 14 seconds of booning should not be necessary because the survivor bringing it would bless a totem with it whatever someone need healing or not and in any case that time spent blessing is "paid" with time lost doing other things like repairing gens, so is not related to the healing itself. But even forgetting that and taking it in count you would only have lost 2 seconds for those 3 heals (3 x 8 = 24 seconds without boon, 3 x 4 = 12 with boon, 12 + 14 = 26 taking in count booning, 24 - 26 = -2 seconds lost) in exchange for the next to be faster, so if the killer doesn't snuff it that 14 seconds would not only pay themselves, they would make profits. And if a survivor was injured he most than probably was running in front of the killer and doing anything else before being injured, so I don't think they would come back to that after healing. Not that SWF would have any of those problems like I said, as they just need for the killer to be chasing their looper, coordinate and go to the CoH range to reset all the pressure. Then, try to change the killer target, heal the other, and repeat.
Making 3 survivors take 24 seconds are not 72 because two survivors heal at 2 c/s, so each survivor would take 12 seconds making it 36 seconds. And they could just maintained the 24 seconds base and just give the buff to CoH, making altruistic 12 seconds and with 2 healers, 6 seconds, and made the medkits go from 50% speed (1.5 c/s = 16) to 100% (2 c/s = 12 seconds) and not only make to even try to bring a rare medkit worth it but it would have the same effect, as now doing altruistic with the best medkit would give you a healthy survivor in 12 seconds and 20.4 charges in a gen in the other 12, making it a better option than making that other survivor self heal with the medkit by simply dropping it (something that people seems to conveniently forget you can do).
But the new change wasn't because altruistic really needed to be lower, or the new base healing was wrong in any way, or altruistic wasn't a problem before. They made the new changes because of the crying, because the fog forbid they nerf the survivors without them having a tantrum and review bombing the game, so papa BHVR would give them a candy so they shut up. And that's it.
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Only when the self healing is equal or less than altruistic and a medkit is in play it is true that is more effective to self heal than do altruistic, which is not a problem as you have the ability to just drop your medkit and let him do the healing while you repair.
The problem was never that self healing is more efficient that altruistic, on the contrary. With the new changes, now healing another survivor with the best medkit would grant you a healed survivor and 22.67 charges done in a gen in the time that survivor would spent just healing while the other would do 24 charges on a gen.
This was the big lie survivors fed BHVR, that altruistic healing was not the problem. It is, and it will be worst with the CoH buff as now a SWF squad can reset the damage of 3 survivors in 12 seconds.
But people cried, so the cries must be silenced.
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If your "random team" want to be altruistic, then the problem is your random team. As you said, I don't know how anyone are not aware that being over altruistic against a Bubba is a bad idea at this time.
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@killeriseasy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388774#Comment_3388774
Because I'm good against some and not against other... pretty simple. And the next patch would destroy the game for a lot of people even if it's not you. Killer mains are the worst part of the game. You get everything you want but complain about DH instead of learning to play against ONE perk Well BHVR to your rescue again. POS
Why I'm not surprised that you don't even understand what the patch was about or that you see "balancing the game" as "making it killer sided", either!
And don't tell me, you aren't good against the killers that you can't avoid simply by dropping pallets and pressing W like Nurse, would assume?
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@killeriseasy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372034#Comment_3372034
Well the game is about to get nuked. Only survivors that will play will be expert teams. Instead of just balancing the game by skill level they have just decided you kill it altogether for a lot of people.
Why it don't surprise me the "killers OP" guy just think the next patch would be the end of it because he just prefer to have a "block button" than learning how to play against some killers.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Compensation is not near enough. Self, altruistic and recovery healing need to stay as it is now. Terrible changes.
That PTB is a recipe of how gaming companies ruining their own games.
You are right. In any other game there would be people mad, but most of the community would see the changes as what they are: A balancing change for both sides to solve base mechanics problems of the game. Too bad BHVR have to deal with people that aren't able to see the big picture because "they are killing the game" just because they nerfed "their side", so all this became a "recipe for disaster".
@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3387544#Comment_3387544
I'm being serious with wanting Self Care to be viable, but don't test me child. My name is SelfCaringInACorner and I WILL spend the entire match in that corner if that's what it takes to use my favorite perk.
That's the spirit!... but no, really, they should buff it to 50-60% healing at least.
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@AnaElie said:
I didn't use it, I just used a translator
Next time, paste the text "without format". You can also change it by editing the post and changing it to paragraph at the left side of the editor with the text selected.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388203#Comment_3388203
You know how there are categories in this game, altruism, bold, survival, brutal, chase, sacrifice?
Those categories help determine how many points you earn in the dbd, well there are no categories specifically for slugging, camping, tunneling.
Someone needs to learn the differences between "game mechanics" and "ways to play". There isn't categories for sabotage, flashlights blinds or Endurance stack either and that doesn't stop survivors to use those "bully strategies" (you can even argue that unlike the ones killers use, those ones are not even with the purpose of winning but make the killer have a bad time).
Either way, I would be thankful if you can explain what anything of that have to do with what I said, because I can't see the correlation.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388190#Comment_3388190
My point was always about gameplay and how Killers had options you changed your point
You also have the option to not buy orange and red streets in Monopoly. Doesn't change the fact that those are statistically the most landed on streets and by buying them you have more possibilities to win.
Instead of complaining about people using the best strategies, learn how to counter play them (like you did against survivors as you explained in your other post). Simple as that.
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They killswitched it not long ago, but they took it back (because it was fixed, in theory). The question is, the bug is happening in the PTB or in the live version as well?
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388072#Comment_3388072
Not every Survivor brings flashlights, flash bangs or toolboxes ( for sabotaging )
When I started having a problem with flashlights and flash bangs I brought in a lightborn to counter it. On top of that I brought lethal pursuer because it gives life born an additional 2 seconds of seeing the Survivor.
To stop survivors from taking protection hits I brought in StarStruck, that also helps with sabotaging survivors sure the one I'm carrying will probably wiggle off but at least I knocked another one down and can hook them instead.
Also remember that flashlights and toolboxes will eventually run out of charges and Flash bangs are only available for as long as that Survivor is able to charge it by working on a gen.
So, what you are saying right now is that you adapted to the strategies survivors was using against you instead of pretending for the survivors to simply play the way you wanted so you have it easy to win and have your fun? Crazy!
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@piplup55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3387654#Comment_3387654
Well, to be honest I'm not against punishing killers for resorting to these strategies. If they are removed completely or very unincentivized then they can give killers what they need to maintain pressure like base tracking for hiding survivors or generators being worked on, rewards on hooking different survivors consecutively, some form of travelling around the map, more accessible exposed status effects without the need of addons...
And that's the problem, you are not punishing killers, you are giving survivors an advantage.
Most of the things you said would basically become the next mechanic that survivor will abuse in a per game basis, like it happened with every single mechanic they tried to implement to "solve" camping and tunneling.
Even the basekit Endurance and Haste they added to alleviate tunneling is most of the time used as a free body block instead of use it to get the hell out of the hook and reach a loop. Then they get killed again, and then complains about being tunneled.
Also, start adapting to the changes to healing. Hook healing is now more dangerous that it was before (because fresh news: Healing in hook never was a good idea, less so if you want to avoid getting tunneled). So, stop healing under the hook.
The only thing I think you are right is about the recovery time. They should buff it up to 75% so it is 32 seconds as before, with the last 5% being 1.2 seconds to avoid bully squads to simply body block the killer as they know one of them would get up with Unbreakable and just recover everyone else.
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@CBT137 said:
because netease doesnt let them (probably)
Well, who knows how the deal went between BHVR and NetEase, but the logic dictates here that BHVR should have the rights to anything related to the game as owners of the IP.
Let's hope the visual heartbeat is not the only thing they bring from the mobile version of the game, because it would be cool (and another income source for BHVR) to have more Mori animations, and the ones in the mobile version are so good.
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"IMO the issues wasn't healing it was more the healing speed."
I'm so confused right now...
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3386879#Comment_3386879
No I mean people will use those sites to look up people in their lobby, and back out saying "oh you are bad I'm out". The DBDstats sourcecode was still available last I was aware, just no site is utilizing it (that I know of). People already do that looking up in Riot's games, (League and Valorant) and I abandoned that sinking ship long ago. I don't want this game to take the bad of any other game.
Again I am fine with personal stats being available, just as long as it requires you to be logged-in to the game to check, and no one else is made aware of your stats.
You make less sense with every post. Even if someone would still use DBDstats (which isn't used and there is nothing like it as AFAIK the anticheat of the game would detect it and ban you, as it literally works as any hack by reading the memory of the game) you still need to be the one using it, so it shows your stats in app or upload it to some page.
Other games that have full stat pages with usernames included is because the game has an official API from where to get this data, or people have "hacked" the official API used to access the official stats servers and used it to create a database with all that info. It didn't happened with DbD because DbD don't have any kind of API, public or "private but exposed", for people to use or hack. That's why every DbD stats page works by volunteer user input, like Nightlight.gg that uses image recognition to read your match results screenshots to build it's database.
Either way, no body is talking about having available any stat outside of the game, or for BHVR to do an API to being able to access that data outside of the game, or for even show any stat in game that isn't your MMR (even if it would be nice).
People want to see their MMR in game as I and my rivals can see that I have the "Mighty Ruler" rank in Tekken 7 or are "Silver" rank in Overwatch. Nothing more, nothing else.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385231#Comment_3385231
I do think matchmaking numbers should be shared in a ranked queue, but not when you aren't expressly signing up for it. Since we don't have 2 queues, ranked and unranked, I think it is a bad idea to show them. Maybe if only you could see your own #, but outside sites don't have access to it (like how currently we have stats available for different killers and main gen completion+escapes).
I think the notepad method is still the best, as you can clearly discount games that shouldn't have counted by your own rules/mindset.
Who talked about "showing it in outside sites against your will"? They should be shown in game. Also, all the sites of stats we have right now are based on user input, as there is no API to access official data. So, it won't be shown against your will as we won't have those stats right now if it wasn't for willing people uploading them.
Don't having an "unranked" queue have nothing to do with it. In fact, many games also shows your ranked rating in those unraked modes.
And again, you do you. I and many people want to know their actual MMR as that is how the game evaluate us. Having it shown won't prevent you from keep opening your notepad and keep your own record.
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@Khastrx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3386757#Comment_3386757
I think if you get kicked from a match and it literally gives you the error message "Lost Connection to Host" or whatever it is, I'm pretty sure that's different to someone manually choosing to "Leave Match", any internal match logs would show that. And yeah, it may be difficult to distinguish sometimes, but if there is a whole weekend of suspicious DDoS activity, asking for penalties to be refreshed isn't unreasonable.
You are right in what you say, but the problem is that a "Lost Connection to Host" can be any type of disconnection, including intentional. Meaning, you only need to pull off the lan cable and that would be a "Lost Connection" and not a "Leave Match".
@MrSlayer said:
As title says, I see no reason why people disconnecting (either out of spite or technical problems) shouldn't be automatically counted as a completed sacrifice.
As far as I know it technically does. The problem is it only counts as a sacrifice, meaning you would get your points for a full sacrifice, but not the rest of the points related to the sacrfice itself (chase, damage, etc.). So, if they disconnect when you are grabbing them to make the third hook they would only save you the time to hook them, as you would get your full points and emblem ratings. Again, as far as I know. I may be wrong.
Maybe they could also add some bonus BP and rating to the other emblems to compensate for the disconnect, too.
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@Beezyyyyyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3386257#Comment_3386257
Idk what that is. I'm on Xbox and I don't see an option for it.
Yeah, only in Steam. So they only get real feedback of that part of the community that have the game there, something that I don't understand.
Anyway, PTB stands for "Public Test Build", and is a "beta" version of the game to test new features before they release it in the main game. One of those features is being able to buy a whole path of the Bloodweb with just one click, and to "random buy" the rest of the Bloodweb when you only want to level up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR0FrvAFziw&ab_channel=DStrike -
@LostSpirit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381921#Comment_3381921
maybe because we all are so against this changes that we are creating accounts to complain
The thing is, most of the people that are against the changes have something in common: They only care about the changes of one side. In other words, they are not mad about the balance of the game, they are mad because they "nerfed" their side. That, and they don't realize why this changes are needed.
I don't think that anybody is saying they are perfect and don't need some revision, but crying about it even before the PTB was up to see how the changes will work or complaining about all of it without realizing the changes are going to solve many problems isn't the way and said a lot about "you all".
So speak for yourself, I and many people like the changes even if they nerfed "our side", because we can see why they did it.
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That's literally in the PTB right now.
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I would post the "Another one" meme again, but then some mod would remove my comment without any warning again, so... both sides got nerfed? And people won't just stop playing the game because of that? Better said, anyone that doesn't simply want for the game to make it easy for them, at least?
Constructive enough?
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And another post that doesn't goes against the rules of the forum erased without any warning. This forum is getting better and better everyday between the ghost editing and the crying post bombing.
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@paddyy said:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009899623621595136/1090658316381855784/image.png
BHVR already has had a solution rdy for that "problem"
Interesting. Is that an UI for the prototyping of the anticamp, or the new system would come with a new UI element?
Someone should see what that file have inside.
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Dude, healing is going to be nerfed hard. This perk would become useful in altruist healing as it should be, and it already begin with a -25% progress loss for balance, which will be even more of a punishment when the changes comes live, and it depends on RNGesus blessing you with skillchecks.
It will probably become meta, but I think it is already balanced enough.
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@MrFirbyll said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385016#Comment_3385016
„And then what would happen is survivors would simply stop doing generators when someone is hooked and dedicate to heal”
It might happen, and that time can be useful for the killer to regress the generators or try to stop the survivors healing.
„forcing the killer to do even more camping”
„If someone is hooked, 99% generators and go for the save over and over again. The moment no survivor is hooked, start completing gens in less than a second until the 5 of them are done and escape.”
So why would anyone camp with a competitive mindset? Camping would make you lose all of your time as a killer and give a huge boost to the Survivor team. My whole point is to make camping unprofitable to force the killer to play in ways that are ideally more fun for both sides. Currently, if done right, camping has a huge boost on the killer's winning chance without much skill involvement.
„they nerfed to the ground regression, too.”
but the Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Eruption combo was way too strong, so they needed to nerf that, but they did it in a weird way instead of just limiting the stacking on them or something less severe. But we still have other ways to regress generators, and some killers do well with only chasing perks too, so you don’t need to crutch on them all the time.
It might happen, and that time can be useful for the killer to regress the generators or try to stop the survivors healing.
Yeah, about that... do you still don't get that max regression now is 4:30 minutes to fully regress a gen, don't you? Regression is dead. Regression have always being not enough even with CoB+OC on his prime and only was useful thanks to pile it up with insta-regression loss, Eruption and camping gens. Now, 30 seconds at max regression (155%, -0.3875 c/s) can be recovered by just one survivor in 11.62 seconds. Two survivors, in 6.83 seconds. And that's basekit progression.
but the Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Eruption combo was way too strong, so they needed to nerf that
The point is not if they needed a nerf or not (spoilers: For your example of "kick regression build", they didn't. They already "nerfed" the main culprit of that build, Eruption. And I say "nerfed" because in reality they destroyed it by giving it an useless effect unless you have an slugging build). The point is, with them nerfed (which they did to both solve 3 genning being so strong and to compensate for the healing nerf, something you still fail to see) there is regression no more.
But we still have other ways to regress generators
What other ways? Because I think you are confusing "regression" with "slowdown" and insta-progress lost effects. Without any kind of regression buffing, a gen would take 6 minutes to fully regress. CoB+OC was the regression. Insta progress lost like PR (also nerfed) or Jolt was a help to regress those gens, but one makes the gen lose just 13.5 charges and the other 7.2 charges. That's you patrolling 3 gens in most maps with a 4.6 m/s killer, as from gen to gen it would take you around 10 seconds walking. And again, that is if we only take in count one survivor with just basekit progression. So no, the killer would not regress any generators.
And to respond to the rest of your post regarding your "anti-camping system", let's do an hypothetical case:
After the first chase, the killer hook somebody. With your system in place, the killer have two options:
- Leaving to chase somebody else.
- Stay and camp the hook.
First option:
If the killer leaves to find somebody else, he will leave the hook free to some survivor to come and do the save. Not that they have any urgency in doing that, as now until they complete a full gen the clock isn't advancing, so no pressure in having one of their partners hooked.
So, instead of unhooking right away, survivors would keep doing gens until they are at 99% or the killer comes to stop them. When the killer is in chase with another survivor (something they would know thanks to the Status HUD Icons), one of them will just go to do the unhook. If the killer downs another survivor, they will do exactly the same they did with an optional heal (because again, there is no rush in having someone hooked anymore, so doesn't matters how many times the killer down you). If the killer decide to kick one of the gens it would not matter as now the regression is so low that they would be able to recover what is lost in no time, and even if that wasn't the case they have plenty of time to do it again as there is no pressure in having someone hooked.
And everytime the killer hooks somebody, it will be back to the beginning: Leave, or stay.
Second option:
If he stays, all the time he is in the hook the survivors are free to just do gens until 99%, and keep doing it. In fact, one or two of them can go to the hook not with the intention of unhooking, but for the killer to stay in the hook to avoid it. Get close, when the killer start chase move to the closest loop, the other come close, and now again, the same dilemma: come back and stay by the hook, scaring off the other survivor, or continue the chase and leave it so they can get the free unhook. In other words, back to the beginning again! But if he decide to keep staying there, the survivors would simply 99% 5 gens, start doing them one after another in a matter of seconds, leaving them with their objectives done and 2 whole minutes to open the gates and go for the save before the first hooked survivors is sacrificed.
Whatever the killer chooses:
Survivors only need to keep this cycle of "do gens till 99% or complete if there is no hooked survivors at that moment, unhook if having the chance or more than one survivor is downed, repeat until all gens are done" to be able to enjoy their rightful victory by tbagging the killer that won't be able to hook anybody at the exit gates. GG Ez baby killer!
To tell the truth, there is another possible case and probably the only chance for the killer to maybe get some kills: Try to slug somebody until bleed. But this would force him to camp the downed survivor for 4 minutes, allowing the others to again complete gens one by one. So, again, he is screwed, but if he is lucky and the other survivors aren't able to do the save maybe he can get a 1 or 2 bleed out to death.
In conclusion, that's what your "anti-camping system" would do. Not "making camping unprofitable", but make the game unplayable for killers.
Start understanding what the new changes would do in paper (as we still have to see how things would go when they release the PTB) and try to give a little more thought to your next idea before posting. And I say it in the most constructive way possible.
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@MrFirbyll said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385254#Comment_3385254
„It would affect SoloQ”
„DbD is dying, people would stop playing”
Never said these.
„No, really, are you a bunch of guys that have coordinated to create new accounts and bomb the forum with the exact same claims over and over again, or are you just one dude with a lot of free time? I'm so curious now.”
I’m a decently old account, as you can see, and I’m older than yours. It seems to me you are a new player with not much experience, or someone else's alt account... Your opinion is pretty close to a guy from the UK... I have actually played the game since 2016 and so far haven't taken a break as big as I’m currently taking in 2023. I have seen a lot with this game, and the direction we are going is not making me want to come back, so that's why I shared my opinion. Developers might find it useful, but it's up to them to decide what they do in the future.
„And you already put your "hook mechanic" suggestion in another post„
This is the original post, I just highlighted that part in a different one. I responded to your „answer" on that post.
I'm from Spain so... you are wrong.
And the problem with your (and every other that says the same things) claims and opinions about the new PTB changes is that you seems to conveniently forget they also nerfed the killer side by literally killing regression perks. You see this as a nerf to survivors when if you see all the changes as a whole is a balancing change affecting both sides to try to solve many problems.
Hope this criticism is constructive enough.
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@Rizzo said:
Let's try to keep the discussion civil and constructive, thank you.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385254#Comment_3385254
Just to clarify here, @MrFirbyll account was made in 2020, yours in 2022, they are not a new user and even if they were, their opinions still matter and they have all the rights to share them here.
I never said he doesn't have the right to said them, I said he sounds exactly as the other unconfirmed, no avatar, 1-2 posts total accounts post that has being poping in the feedback forum since the changes were announced claiming the exact same things. His 11 post in the forums mislead me to think it was a new account, so sorry for that.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Generator auras blocking survivor auras is intentional.
Once upon a time they changed it so that survivor auras were clearly visible through gen auras. At the time BBQ was one of the most used perks and lockers also didn't prevent aura reading so people asked for it to be changed as a way to counterplay BBQ. The devs changed it so that gen auras would block survivor auras and its been that way since.
Someone told me something like this before, and I wasn't able to find any proof of this being true. In fact, the only thing about changing the aura colors I found is in the wiki, that says they were "attempts at standardizing Aura-colours for specific meanings."
In fact, both survivors and generators have the "red" aura as they are the "main objective" of the killer. Which I see the logic behind it, but I don't know why they use that when there is an "Enemy" aura color, AKA the pink one that survivors see when revealing the killer's aura. That, and why survivors / killer auras don't renders above everything else.
And even if you were right, that's a free counter for survivors without using any perk or downside, so, more reason to change it.
By the way, they should change the Hex totem's aura color for the killer for the sames reasons, too.
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They should change the survivor aura color (i.e. the same as they use for the killer as it is the "enemy" aura color) and make it so it draws on top of everything else, including any other visual cue.
I don't know how many times the "unhook" visual sound effect has blocked me from seeing where the survivors were going, aura reading or not.
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- "Healing would benefit the killer side".
- "It will make camping and tunneling worst".
- "It would affect SoloQ".
- "DbD is dying, people would stop playing".
No, really, are you a bunch of guys that have coordinated to create new accounts and bomb the forum with the exact same claims over and over again, or are you just one dude with a lot of free time? I'm so curious now.
And you already put your "hook mechanic" suggestion in another post and you just copy pasted it here, because I suppose you didn't get the response you wanted:
So, I will also just copy-paste my answer to it here:
"And then what would happen is survivors would simply stop doing generators when someone is hooked and dedicate to heal and going for the save, forcing the killer to do even more camping to try to prevent the hooked survivor to being unhooked, which would lead to either the killer not getting any kills or games ending by time out after one hour.
In fact, you just gave the perfect way of abusing this system yourself: If someone is hooked, 99% generators and go for the save over and over again. The moment no survivor is hooked, start completing gens in less than a second until the 5 of them are done and escape.
Horrible idea. Also, remember they nerfed to the ground regression, too. There is no way a killer would be able to regress a gen for survivors to not recover it fast enough, more so without any other type of pressure."
For the rest? Equally or more afoul and less though than the hook one with a pinch of survivor bias on top.
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Regression is dead. Let's kick its corpse and bring down slowdown perks, too.
Now max regression is 155% instead of 300% for the 60 seconds CoB works and OC get to it's max, which means that using both perks now would take 271 seconds, or 4:30 minutes to fully regress a gen.
Regression, including insta-regression perks doesn't need any more rework, and slowdown perks are fine as there is.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384956#Comment_3384956
No BHVR is making this game easier for low skill players, but punishing good ones with nerfs they literally said it themselves.
BHVR instead of nerfing whats commonly used because its common should ask them selves why are these perks commonly used instead of other ones what makes them more appealing.
The truth is BHVR needs buff all the weaker perks that people pass over for better ones in order to increase variety. Not nerf whats popular because its popular unless it very well is properly unfair and OP the perks I mentioned we're not.
Its pointless to use certain perks when you know they're only useful in niche situations that rarely happen.
No BHVR is making this game easier for low skill players, but punishing good ones with nerfs they literally said it themselves.
LOL yeah, keep saying it to yourself if that makes you sleep better at night.
The changes they are doing are precisely the contrary. With the healing change, now good survivors that are good at looping or playing stealthy would be more benefited as they would stay healthy longer, while the bad survivors that were making mistakes or playing without any care as they had 3 medkits and 2 CoH and could just reset all injures in no time would get punished. In other words, now you have to be good at not getting caught as the game is no longer having your back.
The same goes for killers, as know their only method to make real pressure to survivors is hurting them, so know every killer would have to learn how to mindgame and learning the maps, not just pushing W and regress gens.
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@mizark3 said:
Only you know your own skill level, but many people fall prey to Dunning-Kruger.
When we get a skill based system, I too would like to know my number. The problem is we have a kill/escape based system.
When I 2-hook tango as Killer since the Survivors brought BPS, I get punished for giving them each the 7k (boosted to 14k) Survival BP. When my teammates leave me to die on first hook from a Killer that isn't even camping, I get punished. Heck, even when a killer facecamps me from the start, I get punished. If I hook trade in endgame, I get punished.
As long as we have a jank and inaccurate system, you won't have an accurate number. Even then, they have said multiple times they prioritize replacement slots over MMR accuracy. So even if you get an 'accurate' match, if someone backs out it throws that into whack.
If you really want to know how good you've been doing, keep track. Open up notepad or write on a sticky note and track did you win or lose, kill or escape (through gate, remember hatch is a tie). If your kill rate is above 60%, you are doing good. If your escape rate is above 40%, you are doing good. (Since those are the numbers they balance around.) You know if you won or not, the escape/kill doesn't always track that. I know I won if I got the clean snipe as Huntress, or ran the Bubba until I got out or he facecamped me as his only kill. The game doesn't track that. So you need to.
Everybody have an MMR. We are rated and matched against other taking in count our MMR. We want to know our MMR, and I'm pretty sure OP was refering to it too.
Whatever you think your MMR represents or not your "real and current skill" because you made a Bubba drop it's game to make sure you lose yours, it's on you.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385025#Comment_3385025
Well, yes, but the number used for your Quick Play matches in those games is also MMR. It's the same system, just with slightly different parameters for the ranked mode- alongside ranked mode also having more game restrictions to enforce more competitive and 'serious' play. DBD doesn't have a ranked mode, it has a regular queue, and that's not the kind of queue that typically shows your matchmaking numbers.
And while I agree with you in broad strokes, I don't think "this bad thing happens already sometimes so it happening more is fine" is really a great direction to go in. People shouldn't lobby dodge based on prestige, partially because it isn't a reliable indicator of anything but mostly because lobby dodging is bad for the matchmaking system.
Sorry, but you are wrong. Usually, the only difference between what you call "Quick Play" and "Ranked" in matchmaking terms is that in "Quick play" you are simply matched against any player that also want to play, and in "ranked" you are matched against others players taking in count the "ranking" system that developers have come up with (some uses their own system, like DbD, others uses their own implementation of established ranking systems like ELO, etc.).
DbD, by own definition, only has a "Ranked" mode as even if we don't know what our rating is, the matchmaking system uses our MMR to match us with others with a similar rating. Not only that, but depending of how good we do in the match we will lose or win MMR. So, it can't be more literally a ranked queue. The only difference with the ranked mode in other games is that, again, we don't really know what is our ranking.
And I didn't say lobby dodging would happen more, I said it would keep happening regardless. I don't think it really happens so frequently to be that of a problem to begin with, and I don't think it will be worst with MMR being shown.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384954#Comment_3384954
Most games don't show you the inner workings of their matchmaker, is the thing, so it's not that I'm against something expected, I just don't see a reason to do something *un*expected, if that makes sense.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384994#Comment_3384994
I suppose, though I think in practice that's going to result in a lot less preparation and a lot more 'leave lobby'. There is some limited application in preparing for a tough match, but in general your matches shouldn't have enough variance in your opponent's skill for that to matter all that much, I feel.
It's funny you say DBD is the only game you can think of that doesn't show you your matchmaker number, because I can't think of any game that does. Usually that's the domain of ranked mode ladders, regular matchmaking systems don't really show you that kind of data.
"Ranked mode" ratings are usually what the matchmaking system uses to match you against others when playing ranked matches. So yeah, it is showed to you. Other thing is that what it is showed to you and what the matchmaking system really uses isn't exactly the same, or that the system take more things in count unknown to you. But any PvP competitive game I can think of in many genres (Overwatch, MTG Arena, Tekken, etc.) shows your current "rank". That rank in DbD right now would be MMR.
And the funny thing with "lobby dodging" is that it already happens by something that should not only not be important, but doesn't means anything more that you play the game a lot: The prestige level. So, if the problems would be the same, why not show the MMR instead of or at the same time?
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And then what would happen is survivors would simply stop doing generators when someone is hooked and dedicate to heal and going for the save, forcing the killer to do even more camping to try to prevent the hooked survivor to being unhooked, which would lead to either the killer not getting any kills or games ending by time out after one hour.
In fact, you just gave the perfect way of abusing this system yourself: If someone is hooked, 99% generators and go for the save over and over again. The moment no survivor is hooked, start completing gens in less than a second until the 5 of them are done and escape.
Horrible idea. Also, remember they nerfed to the ground regression, too. There is no way a killer would be able to regress a gen for survivors to not recover it fast enough, more so without any other type of pressure.
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@jesterkind said:
Can I ask why?
I've never really seen a good argument for it beyond a general curiosity or explicit desire to be mad at perceived mismatches, neither of which are really compelling. However, that doesn't mean no such arguments exist!
There is good reasons to show not only to us, but in lobbies before the game the MMR of players.
Seeing your MMR could help you understand how good are you in the game and to do things to improve based on it. If you get your MMR to go up, then you are doing well. If it is going down, you are doing something wrong. If you can't rise it more, it is time to really learn the ropes and see where you are failing. And as you said, maybe you don't really mind how much is it, but want to simply know.
If it is shown in the lobbies, it can help have an idea of what to expect from your partners / rivals and prepare for it. It's not the same to confront 4 low MMR than a team with 3 high ranked survivors. If the killer your going against have high MMR, you can expect him to be hard to loop. If one of your survivors have low MMR, you know you can't expect him to do some advanced things like coordinate to do an unhook.
In short, it is an useful information to have that can help you get better and / or know what you can expect in a match. In fact, DbD is one of the few games with ranking systems I can think of that doesn't show you and your rivals ranking and I don't really know why.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384719#Comment_3384719
i am fine with the other killers i mean leather face wears peoples skins (and then was censored when those face masks were used for other things) but freddy is not culturally sensitive and sends out the wrong representation about dead by daylight to other videogame communities
@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384725#Comment_3384725
it is more for the presentation of the game...people get offended by the dumbest things in this game such as the aforementioned bubba skin mask fiasco; just because the masks are gone doesn't make those same people all of a sudden stop tunneling certain survivors
Alright, you are definitely trolling now 🤣
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@MeanieDeeny said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384421#Comment_3384421
I don’t know why you seem so angry.
Sorry but I feel being a pedophile (Freddy) is far worse than a standard killer. You won’t change my mind, so I’m not going to debate all you wish to debate.
I don’t think he should be removed from the game, idk how OP feels.
If you wan't to feel better or worst about what unmoral fictional characters do, you do you. Whatever makes you sleep at night. But OP asked to discuss if he should be on the game or not based on those feelings.
And I'm not angry, but like I said, I think all this topic is pretty ridiculous. Simple as that.
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To be short: This game has being survivor sided since the beginning. Now that they are solving problems killers also have to balance the game, you all see this as "side with killers" instead of what it is: Making the game fair. Simple as that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384445#Comment_3384445
Just nerfing camping by itself is just a matter of increasing the hook timer. That's it. That's all it takes to make standing in front of a hook less efficient is to make it take longer.
And how many survivors are going to complain about "being hooked 3/4/5 minutes" or wanting even more a suicide button if hook times are longer, then? Did you not remember that "being hooked" and "doing gens" are the most boring things for survivors as their own words? Full post in this forum have being talked about those exact topics. That's why the nerfed the healing along the regression and not hook or gens times, because is an indirect way of dealing with those problems without making those time longer.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384464#Comment_3384464
I have seen killer mains do the same thing. Except they cry about the slowdown nerfs and do not consider the healing nerfs at all. People just in general aren't seeing the big picture with this update quite yet.
I hope telling yourself that will make you feel better about the long queue times if camping doesn't get touched at all.
Not touching camping would make the queues longer, as this game has being dead for years now if you ask some kind of people around here. This changes won't affect camping for good or bad, camping would be as viable as survivors let it to be, as has always being. In fact, and again, it would make camping less appealing as now the only way to make pressure on survivors is by hurting them.
And nobody is saying that the entitlement is exclusive of the survivor's side, but I think the number of post dedicated to complain about just the healing speak for itself.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384088#Comment_3384088
The majority of people are against slower altruistic healing, because the majority of the people don't want survivors to get nerfed, and this seems like the easiest thing to latch onto. This has nothing to do with what is fair and balanced. People are just trying to get a nerf reverted due to popular opinion.
I think Ardetha's last video about old bully squads indirectly explained it so well: Survivors have being in a power trip for so long that now even a balancing patch affecting both sides and making the game fair is seen as "killer sided" and a nerf to only survivors. And of course, nerfing survivors is going against their rightful fun, so that is a no-no.
That's why so many people is crying about the healing and want it reverted even before they put the patch in the PTB, but have no problem with the nerfs done to the killer side and want them to stay even if it was to compensate the other changes and all those changes are to solve many problems with the game.
They don't want to see all the changes as a whole and understand why BHVR have done those things because they simply don't care, they want the game to guarantee "their fun" at cost of anything else, including balance, and that's about it.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383895#Comment_3383895
The devs can nerf it so it is less effective. And with the healing nerf buffing camping indirectly, that's exactly what they are going to need to do if they don't want a clear decrease in survivor players.
BTW, they tried many times before to do something against "camping", because people don't stop crying about it. Every single time they implemented a new mechanic to avoid camping, survivors would take advantage of it and start abusing it.
So, I join @Technature question: What would you do to "nerf" camping without survivors abusing that new mechanic?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383917#Comment_3383917
No, a killer has the potential to end chases quickly even if the survivor does not make a mistake. Often it's about winning mindgames. There are enough strong killers that can do this.
I do get that killers will have less regression to work with once the first survivor is dead, but they will also have longer healing times to work with now. No, camping will surely have to be nerfed, so survivors can heal and still have a chance to counterplay camping. Because just doing gens isn't the best option. You want to go for hook trades, but you can't while you are injured. And incrased healing times means you spend more time healing, and less on gens, while the killer is camping.
If camping doesn't get addressed as well, I do believe many survivor players will take a break from the game. I don't know about you but I do not want 10 minute queue times for killers.
Mindgames are bets. Sometimes you trick the other, sometimes you don't. Doesn't have anything to do with the strength of the killer or the skill of the player. By your same logic, we could say "survivors can make chases longer than they should because they win a lot of mindgames".
If someone is camping, healing is not a factor unless you mess up. If the killer is camping, you won't get hurt unless you come close to the hook, as the killer is camping. So, what you are talking about is not "survivors need to get healed to try the impossible save because the killer is camping", what you are saying is "survivors would get hurt trying to do an impossible save so they need time to reset the save, AKA healing again to have another try". In other words, what you people are asking is for the game to allow you to literally reset your mistakes over and over again.
And sorry but yes, doing gens when a killer is camping is an effective way of punishing him, more so if that first survivor waste a good amount of the killer's time. Yesterday, I had a game and survivors literally did 4 gens in 3:45 minutes. If the survivor that is going to be camped loop the killer good and waste his time, the rest have time to do most of the gens and try to go for a save. And the keyword is try, as now the game won't "have your back" if you failed the save and want to try another 3 times.
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@MeanieDeeny said:
I think if I'm understanding what OP is saying, it's not because Freddy is some bad psychopath, but that the lore implications of bad things involving children, crosses a line. I agree. I like the older Freddy movies and the idea of him in general, scare-wise, I just wish his backstory would have been something better...less icky.
I think using Huntress as a comparison is poor. She has the mental capacity of a child and her intent was genuinely to have a daughter of her own to care for, she didn't understand what she was doing was wrong and why and why the girls were dying etc. whereas, Freddy intentionally sought out to destroy children.
You said it yourself, he is a bad psychopath that would do bad psychopath things. The whole point of my argument is that trying to draw a moral line of what a fictional bad psychopath do to fictional people in their fictional world is dumb. Super dumb. They are killers, they are more monster than person to the point some of them, like Freddy, became a literal monster. They have no morals.
"But getting physical with children is wrong and unacceptable" Yeah! We know! That's the whole point! That's why when the fathers burn him to the bones no one feels sad for him and we are all the movie wanting for the protagonist to kill him for good! He is a horrible monster that does horrible monster things. Trying to cancel a fictional killer monster for doing unforgivable things when that's the whole point of a fictional killer monster, again, is ridiculous.
And as you seem to have the moral scale of "unacceptable things a fictional killer should not fictionally do" figured out, please enlighten me of why what Huntress did (whatever her intentions was) is much less severe that what Freddy did at a moral level. More so when the results are the same: Multiple children dead. And don't forget Huntress also killed the whole family of the girls probably in front of them. And while you are at it, compare both cases to The Trapper, that most than probably killed hundreds and that's just in "the worst mass murder in modern history", as his real number of victims "is unknown".
@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382660#Comment_3382660
but jason didn't do anything to anyone that wasnt an adult
They were "teenagers", maybe is a cultural / language thing but from where I am that is around the 16 years of age, from 13 to 18 approx. Should we start the hashtag know? Also, just because he did what he did to adults then everything's fine?
More also, you know what a joke is?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383876#Comment_3383876
Killers don't get to use regression perks when they are camping anyways.
The problem is that now, with healing taking longer, survivors will have even less time to hook trade against a camping killer, and will also have less time to do gens while doing so, because they will be spending more time healing.
Just doing gens and nothing else isn't a viable option if the killer is good and gets his first down quick enough. Camping will 100% have to be nerfed if the healing nerfs go live, no doubt. Or we'll see a big spike in killer queue times, I am certain of that.
They will have to increase the hook phase duration from 60 seconds to at least 75 seconds, that's for sure.
Killers use regression perks after they have camped so the remaining survivors won't escape, unless your only prupouse is to camp 1 or 2 survivors and lose the game. Now, they will lose the game as they can not start gaining time at the end of the game as now pressure is not done by regressing gens, is done by hurting survivors.
To trade hooks, you don't need more than one non injured survivor and healing is not a factor here, because as you said, it will be hooked. If the killer is camping, usually, he will be too busy standing in front of the first hook to hurt anybody else, so, there is no "spending more time healing" because technically he would not hurt much anybody.
"If the killer is good and gets his first down quick enough" I know it is not what you meant for sure, but what I read there is "the survivor wasn't good enough and didn't looped the killer for long". You made a mistake, luck wasn't by your side, you don't know how to loop, or in fact the killer was better and outplayed you. Whatever the reason you got down, and you would be punished for it. Don't like it? Get better and accept that things are not always going your way.
And I already said it but again, the changes won't "buff" camping because now every gen done is a bigger punish for the killer, and spent 2 minutes in front of the hook only allows survivor to pressure him more.