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Batusalen
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@BlueHorkew said:
I will just save you the trouble.
They probably won't do it. Endurance right now is the mechanic used for base kit BT.
So i doubt bhvr will want to introduce any way to buff tunneling, they already get enough flag for that.
They might introduce something to deal with DH, being a perk that counters DH or a nerf to DH. But something that counters endurance i feel like it is very unlikely.
I saying this, but \pinhead has a purple add-on that allows him to do this. If something like that was brought for every killer. The rage in this forum would be really something else.
Because it will be so hard for them to create a new buff for basekit BT and change Endurance for everything else, of course...
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373924#Comment_3373924
we only talk about extremes in these forums buddy. Every survivor match is against comp wannabe blight/nurse with broke addons and every killer match is against seal team 6 swf who communicate with each other via hivemind
You said it like it is the wrong thing to do. Games need to be balanced around the "extreme" end of the bar, because if you balance it taking in count the bottom of the barrel those who are above that would crush the other side. So, the talk should be around those "extremes", not the "casual 99%" that don't have any intention to be better at the game and blames anything but themselves when they lose.
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@Severing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373883#Comment_3373883
They are able to do it. You can currently elevate the FPS limit by inserting a line of text into the Engine.ini file and modifying settings in the GameUserSettings.ini file. If I recall correctly, you used to be able to do so without the Engine.ini file but that changed for some reason. Given that raising the FPS cap is already something possible by altering the files, all they have to do is grant us the hability of changing these configurations from within the game menu.
Really, the only reason they have not done so is because someone somewhere does not want to.
If that's the case, another QoL thing that is not already in the game just because they just not want to do it, apparently.
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@HugTechLover said:
Disconnecting during the EGC is so goofy. 😂 JUST. PUSH. THEM. OUT.
It is seriously as easy as that. If you’re so easily triggered by them indulging in their victory over you, then don’t play PVP games.
The problem is not the indulging, the problem is they will extend it to the extreme by getting hits if they aren't injured or staying in the gates for almost the whole two minutes if they see you won't go to "push them out" and grant them their "indulgement". Doesn't matter if they are the whole squad, or is just that one lucky survivor that waited in front of the door for you to close the hatch that appeared at the other side of the map. If the match is over and I consider there is no probability for a comeback, why I have to keep wasting my time?
Also, the most funny thing about this topic for me is this:
Waiting 2 minutes on the exit gates tbaggin to "indulge" in their victory: Totally fine. Killers need to just suck it up for losing.
Slugging them for less than 2 minutes trying for the 4k: Unacceptable! BHVR should stop killers from doing this right now! It's so toxic!!!
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I think one solution would be for DCs penalties to not apply when someone disconnects during the Endgame Collapse. If the killer disconnect, all survivors still alive are considered to have escaped through the exit gate in all terms, and if a survivor disconnect it should be considered like it was fully hooked at all terms whatever his state was, including BP, emblems and pip.
It doesn't address the "slugging for the 4k" problem, but I think that should be solved with a hatch rework more than allowing people to just disconnect, as it would benefit that last survivor even more as now you don't even have to wait to be hooked to just suicide yourself as fast as you can to give him the hatch, to put an example of the many problems that allowing it can generate.
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Well, there is only one reason to not being able to do it: The game is designed to have a constant FPS. This is pretty common to do in console exclusive games as normally a console have limited hardware that only allows for a certain number of FPS and it is technically easier to calculate certain things like physics, collisions and such this way.
If I'm right and DbD was designed this way, changing it would mean changing all the base logic of the game so I don't think this is happening.
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I don't think the problem is the max 90 seconds at base kit progression, I think the problem is all the ways survivors can shave off up to 60 seconds from that. The other day I saw a video of a build that allows just one survivor to do a gen in 35 seconds by himself. So, the solution would be to simply nerf gen progression bonuses so the min time to do a gen is not 30 seconds, which can be done by using just 1 perk (Prove Thyself) with 3 survivors.
Another solution could be to simply reduce chase time by nerfing "second chances" perks, AKA nerf Endurance so it is not practically a 3º health state, but somehow I don't see this happening.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373579#Comment_3373579
they can do what they want which is why i didn't comment on the Playstyle but what's the point of choosing a killer just so they can camp and cheese some kills with specific addons like they're playing for a tourney or smth it's like playing huntress ( a strong and fun killer) but running oak haft and standing in front of the hook yes you're guaranteed Survivors probably can't save but like that's a huge waste of the killer's potential which was my complaint
knight is a fun and decent killer imo especially after the buffs long range patrols are rewarding so just picking him to camp kinda hurts my soul haha.
"The killer's potential"... alright, first of all? Why do you think you can even complain about how others use a killer? Second, why do you care about how people use the killer in the first place? The reason to "pick a killer to do x" is to win and / or have MY fun. Not your fun, not survivors fun. My fun, playing the way I want to play. Not your way. Fun is not objective, is all the contrary and what you find fun doesn't have to be what I find fun.
And now you say "they can do what they want", but even in the last part of this comment it is obvious that you think it is fine to recriminate someone because he doesn't play him the way you think is the "correct and fun way", and then proceeded to question his skill in your next response because of it.
So, you maybe really believe that you have the right to "make a complaint" about others way to play or that using the "is my opinion" card automatically made it a valid argument, but the only thing you did was show your entitlement, my guy 🤣
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373415#Comment_3373415
what can I say? Play lame wins games.
No no no no no! Dude! You must play by the Survivor's Morals Rulebook! You must not play to win, you must play for the fun and joy of the survivors! What are you doing being "as boring as possible"?
It is unacceptable! The Knight should be nerfed, and you should be banned for being an unfun sinner!!!
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373294#Comment_3373294
win win win win win win win win win. NO. AGAIN. COMPARE LOSSES!
I already did, and I already told you why you can't have it your way and equalizing it by the amount of loses. In fact, just revert everything I said about wins so they are loses and it will stand the same.
At this point, you are either trolling or just in pure denial.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373069#Comment_3373069
Autodidact is not a hex or boon perk. It is a killer perk.
BHVR, this powerful perk is balanced and needs for me to work it out by simply doing what I was going to do anyways even if I didn't use it... What gives? How you dare to make me have to work to gain an advantage in the game? What am I, a killer player!?
By the Holy Survivor's Morals Rulebook, I command you to overpower this undercover killer perk so I can counter any health speed debuff effect without any effort!
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372469#Comment_3372469
Again. You are deliberately ignoring things. Killer DOES NOT loose 60% of games. Killer DOES NOT LOOSE MMR when he kills 2. So one more time. Killer looses 40% of games, while survivor 60%. Explain to me WHY THIS IS FAIR? I still haven't got 1 sensible reply ABOUT LOOSING. I am not saying WINNING. So again. Why 60% losses vs 40% losses is fair in your eyes. And how do you still not get that killer loss rate is NOT 60%? Ignore everything else and try to answer this 1 point I wrote you like million times.
Because it is an asymmetric game where the rankings don't work equally for both sides, where the killer needs to do his job (kill at least 3) to win versus a team of 4 without exception, and even if he won he will lose their accessories. Survivors, even if one of them didn't do any single objective in all the match only need to escape himself to be considered a win for him, he will keep the items he brought or the ones that took on the map, and if it is the last survivor left he will be granted a free chance to escape.
And if all that didn't convince you, the biggest one: Because mathematically speaking it is the fairest it will ever be because the asymmetric nature of the game. If like you said they make it so killrates would be 40% it would be 160 survivors killed in 100 games, or 1.6 survivors per game, meaning killers would always lose or tie their MMR matches while survivors would have a 60% winrate.
How that sounds fairest to you than both sides winning the same on average? In fact, sorry, but only caring about loses when both sides are balanced in winnings only makes you sound extremely resentful.
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They have no intention (as far as I know) to put DbD Mobile's Moris in the PC version and technically they already have those done. Imagine having to invest time in doing some new flavor animations.
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Anime fan here, and I already think that Shingeki no Kyojin was a miss as it didn't fit the game theme too much. Naruto? Even less.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373055#Comment_3373055
Sorry, but I want a perk to be a PERK, not a BURDEN.
Funny, that is what I think everytime I use an Hex perk.
But no, it is obvious that you want an useful perk to be an overpowered perk. And the best part is that you want to do it so you can counter not one, but two killer perks.
I guess that killer perks don't need to be PERKS and give killers an advantage if survivors can't completely nullify them, eh?
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372972#Comment_3372972
The perk's unbalanced right now. It favors the killer because of the penalty it starts with.
The RNG is bad.
Others just run to the Circle of Healing and point away, telling you to do gens instead while they heal.
If they do let you heal them, the increased heal speed from CoH means less time (chances) to get skillchecks.
On average, I end the game with maybe 3 tokens if I'm lucky. Which means that all the perk did was regress heal progress the majority of the time.
The "ez" skill checks are the only way to counter obnoxious Coulrophobia/Sloppy builds, and no one runs the perk anyway.
It is a token perk because it's only condition is doing something that you would already do in the first place, and that something is as easy as just good skill checks. Imagine if it didn't depend on RNGesus blessing you. And by the way, 3 of them means a free +20% of current progress to the healing, it's not even added speed.
And you want to not only remove the penalty for being basically a free healing perk with a light dependency in RNG, but not add any kind of condition or difficulty to it to balance... yeah, what about no?
Funny enough, CoH is a direct counter to Coulrophobia as it add the 50% of healing speed that Coulrophobia removes, and if the killer is not running that build (Coulrophobia has 1.63% usage according to nightlight.gg) both CoH and Autodidact are a huge advantage. Also, Coulrophobia has the condition of the survivor having to be inside the terror radius for it to be effective, which is a more demanding one that just doing good skill check.
Sorry, but the only thing you want is to unbalance a pretty powerful high risk, high reward perk.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372622#Comment_3372622
Nah. Keep the difficulty the same for healing others and make the self heal skill checks high difficulty but can also grant tokens.
Nah, to much an advantage for not any kind of balancing sacrifice. Unless you are super distracted anyone can do a normal skill check. If you are going to gain the 50% progress of total healing by doing just one of them without any kind of penalty or other condition they should be high difficulty to balance it. That's why the perk start with a -25% right now and you only need two of them to start gaining benefits.
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They could just show your personal MMR rating in the menu and the rest after the match if lobby dodge is such a problem. Yet again, DbD is one of the few games I can remember not giving the other players the ratings of their partners / rivals in ranked modes. Because even if DbD don't have a "ranked queue" by name it is technically ranked.
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@Nos37 said:
Bad enough that this perk favors the killer, on average, but with the Circle of Healing meta, it's very hard to get tokens from injured survivors.
Remove the first 2 tokens/penalties. Make it start with the weakest (positive) bonus and earn tokens from there.
Sure, but make it so all healing skill checks are high difficulty ones now.
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@Severing said:
So, it actually was approved and this was it, so I just edited it into nothing. Will do the same if any of the others also are. Again, sorry.
Don't worry, it also happened to me when I started posting in the forums. A mod told me that until you get a hundred post made on the forum the "anti spam" filter would sometimes hold your posts to review until you are "trustful". More so if you try to edit your post after it being "accepted". If you see your post disappear just be patient as it would probably just be shown later.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372148#Comment_3372148
And again - considering YOUR take on it that I don't agree with (again - killer playing 4 games in 1 trial - something devs said when explaining MMR).
Even in your case I will repeat it once again. Killer looses 40% of games (because 2 kills is NOT loosing the game). Survivors loose 60% of games. Reread your own response and tell me it ain't so. And again - loosing more for one side is according to you fair? Why? Why should one side loose more and consider it fair?
Killer looses 40% of games (because 2 kills is NOT loosing the game). Survivors loose 60% of games. Reread your own response and tell me it ain't so.
Sorry but no, it ain't so because again, killers and survivors aren't playing the same kind of match. Killers are playing against an squad of 4 and needs to kill at least 3 people to get his MMR up. Survivors are playing each one an individual battle against the killer and doesn't matters how many of their partners dies, if he survives alone he won and his MMR would go up. So:
Killers = 1vs4, needs to kill 3 to win.
Survivors = 1/1/1/1vs1, needs to just escape itself to win.
That's why, again, a 60% killrate is 40% winrate for survivors, but not 60% of winrate for killers.
[...] considering YOUR take on it that I don't agree with.
This is not "MY" take, it is how the ranking system of the game works (and I know that it works this way because you told me and I looked up what the devs said). So what you are not agreeing to is to math. Stop the copium and accept the math, my friend.
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@Gandor said:
Killer plays 4 matches in 1 trial. 60% killrate equals 60% winrate.
In your argument it's still unfair. Survivors loose 60% while killer just 40% (btw this is bad math approximation, because combination numbers + interdependences, but so be it).
One way or another, 60% kr is just not fair
Are you really going to make me say it again? Fine:
In MMR terms, a victory for the killer is 3 kills in one match. 60% killrate means 240 survivors killed in 100 games (400 survivors total) or 2.4 survivors per trial, meaning killers wins and gain MMR in 40% of their matches.
As you said, in the case of the survivors each individual have it's own match against the killer. So, 40% escapes means 40% wins and MMR gaining for the survivors, as even if just 1 of them escapes that one won against the killer.
So, 60% killrate means 40% winrate for killers, 40% winrate for survivors. And unless they change the way the game works and start treating the 4 survivors as a team (it would be fun to see the saltiness generated by someone losing MMR because of the other survivors getting killed) it is the fairest it can mathematically be. Accept it already.
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@Gandor said:
I believe u that there are such people. I just don't hear about them. And don't take me wrong - I think they have some cool people in the program - like Spookyloops. But still. Those people that are a bit more known - all play just killer. And there will always be some inherent bias toward "your side".
Like in example saying it's fair in multiplayer game for one side to have 60% wins and other 40% making it THE goal.
Dude, we already talked about it. 60% killrate is 40% winrate for both sides in terms of MMR. I can't believe you still keep saying that 🤣
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@TragicSolitude said:
The ability to disable it isn't in the game because it's not for us. "Auto aim" helps players get hits they otherwise wouldn't; that's not in the game. What DbD has is "aim dressing," which adjusts a killer's hit to make hits that connect look like they connect. Unfortunately, the way it works, it can screw up a hit. The difference between "aim dressing" and "auto aim" is that aim dressing will never help a killer get a hit they otherwise wouldn't. That's why we can't disable it.
Here's the source of my info (from a game dev):
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/1026216#Comment_1026216
Is this okay? No, it sucks, it shouldn't screw up hits and I hate that this is a thing.
They can call it whatever they want. If it moves my "crosshair" to somewhere I didn't pretend to hit and he himself is admiting it can cause failed hits they should allow us to disable it. I'm not even asking for them to just turn it off, I just want to be able to toggle it on and off, so anyone that want to use it does and those who not, don't. There isn't any reason to not do it.
BTW, that's not what "Auto aim" or "Aim assist" do at all. You can still miss your shots with aim assist, and the "advantage" it provides in terms of "missed shots" depend a lot on how it is programmed.
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https://youtu.be/7WJ4FgD0wYo?t=175@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370753#Comment_3370753
Again not true. There are niche situations/killers that don't have working perk. Like exactly the example - you want to get rid of a chance that you get skull merchant religiously guarding his 3gen - so you take what perk? By design it should be potential energy - but the perk is so bad, that it will actually not help you at all against it. Not really, because regression perks are far stronger then those 20% you could get after charging the perk for eternity.
So again - no survivors have only a few good perks. Then they have some perks that do provide something in some niche, but are not even that good. And then there are perks like buckle up, no mither, technician and so on. So yes. There are just 10 cool perks, 20 SWF-usable perks, 10 niche perks and a lot of garbage...
And even without the toolbox, in a gen with one or two more people in it, imagine how fast that gen would be done.
So, again, there is a lot of perks and things survivors can do but they don't. There are plenty of "gen rushing" builds on the internet, but I only see the same "looping" builds with flashlight or medikit in the game because again, everybody want to be the hero.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371093#Comment_3371093
In fact, I think BHVR should stop listening to the community all that much and dig deeper in the real problems of the game.
This is a awful idea, but a well argued point, except bHVR does not do robotically what the Community asks for. They take their (sweet) time, look at the numbers and evaluate the performance. There is nothing wrong with looking at what the community thinks tho, useful things might come of it.
Like I think DH is too strong so I try to be constructive and give good critique, I know bHVR heard me, but they may have the numbers to prove me wrong so they wont use that idea, that is fine. But bHVR needs to know what we think of the game so they can make changes to fix the problem, even if what we ask for is bad and wrong.
That is why I said they need to hear the community, but not listen to the community. And even if I don't agree with the "They take their time" part and still thinks they are listening to the community a little too much right now, I agree with you.
In fact, after rewatching the video I posted it really surprise me how well the situation he described with the KI community can be applied to the current state of the "entitled" part of the DbD community as well.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370753#Comment_3370753
What good is Deja Vu if the killer has decided to sit in that 3 gen, defend those gens with regression perks, and never take a chase outside of it? For what it's worth, I'm not in favor of "removing" 3 gens, but the idea that Deja Vu or any other survivor perk is the hidden gem that is key to overcome a Skull Merchant camping a tight 3 gen that she's been guarding the entire game is laughable. This is a product of poor killer design, plain and simple.
Now, to get back on topic.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370551#Comment_3370551
You say that survivors have a perk that can be countered by a killer perk, and that's just fine in your head. Cool. So why do killers get to have a counter to a survivor perk, but survivors aren't allowed to have a chance at countering part of a killer's perk with a perk of their own? Seems a little biased to me.
The point of perks is to have fun, unique interactions with not only your other perks, but your teammates' perks AND the killer's perks. Your philosophy on how perks should be designed seems anathema to the very idea of perks to begin with. Under your logic Vigil must be an abomination since it can cause Haunted Ground's exposed status effect to end earlier than the minute "promised" by the perk.
Please, specify where I said that "Deja Vu or any other survivor perk is the hidden gem that is key to overcome a Skull Merchant camping". I said what I said, that survivors have useful perks that nobody uses in response to the claim that survivors only have a handful of good perks and the rest are garbage.
[...] but survivors aren't allowed to have a chance at countering part of a killer's perk with a perk of their own?
You are joking, right? You must be joking, as you even gave an example. But if you want a lot of them: Every single Hex perk, that doesn't need any perk to be countered in the first 30 seconds of the match, but there is Counterforce for maximum and direct counter effect. And no, perks should give you an advantage over the other side and / or be helpful to you or your teammates, "fun" is not a factor here as if using one perk is fun or not is totally subjective (in fact, you people need to stop using it as an argument for everything). And even if you were right, tell me what interaction with your teammates or the killer perks Dead Hard provides, for example.
Under your logic Vigil must be an abomination [...]
I'm not the one here asking to nerf all debuffs available and the killer perks associated with it just because a survivor perk have a direct counter in the other side. Seriously, I think you don't even completely understood what the argument was about.
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You just need to take a look at this forum to see this is a horrible idea.
Streamers, no matter how good they are at the game are still players. Not game designers, not programmers. And there are plenty of good reason for not listening to the playerbase directly (because one thing is hearing what people says, other thing is listening and take for granted every single word they say, something I think BHVR should have learn when they nerfed Freddy).
In fact, I think BHVR should stop listening to the community all that much and dig deeper in the real problems of the game. Maybe they can learn a thing or two on how Iron Galaxy do (did) balance:
https://youtu.be/ks4eZoG94Vs?t=46681:17:49 to 1:21:40 if the video don't start in the precise moment.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367649#Comment_3367649
I'm hitting the 1 hour cap really reliably if they do not DC or straight up give up, if you still argue that she's weak and easily beatable, idk what to tell you man
I didn't say she is easily beatable, I said her power is weak and easily counterable, which it is. Of course you still need to know what you are doing to win the game, something that the more I play as survivor it's clearer that people don't know. And this is from a total noob that still doesn't know how to properly loop in most maps.
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@qwertyuiopz66 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370939#Comment_3370939
Well let’s add the distance back then and remove the health state then it will be back to getting used to get to pallets and windows which is arguably just as strong but does not require the killer to actually hit them to get it like if a survivor dh with old dead hard you could just leave them but if you know a survivor has dead hard you need to bait them don’t do 50/50 mind games most survivors will panic dead hard I’ve only just got good at using my dh in a very consistent way it takes practice and timing and patience it does seem unfair on the killer side but as a survivor the perk is balanced imo it also helps with getting tunnelled my dh does not work every time even the best players won’t be able to hit dh every time if a surv dead hards leave them that’s my advice you have already lost enough pressure during the chase
Funny enough, people still use DH in pallets and windows. But you are avoiding the main point of the argument: Endurance is a 3º health state. It's not how DH works that is a problem, the problem is that it doubles the chase time by punishing the killer for getting a second hit in a survivor, hence for doing good in a chase. And that is what needs a change.
@qwertyuiopz66 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370939#Comment_3370939
And you got to admit killers have some annoying af perks but I don’t care I put up with it cause I know my perks can be equally as annoying the only thing that annoys me now a days is hard tunnelling and camping use whatever build you want
And we can talk about them also if you want. Make a post, and we discuss them. But that doesn't change the facts about the problems of DH / Endurance.
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@qwertyuiopz66 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370864#Comment_3370864
Yeah you got out played if you time the dh right and the killer hits you then good for you ya think I’m not sick of pain res dms cob overcharge but am I sat demanding all these perks need a nerf no equally as annoying to sit on a gen just to have it blow up and block in your face or maybes camping and tunnelling yeah that’s also very very annoying but ya know dead hard is so unhealthy for the game typical killer mains lol
When any of those perks just reset an already completed gen by "getting lucky" and you have to spent double the time repairing it by yourself you could compare it with DH, because that's precisely the problem with DH: It punish the killer for doing good by negating all what they have done to get that second hit and having to spend the same time and effort to recover it.
It is fine if it was just a second chance perk but it isn't, it's literally a 3º health state. In fact what they should nerf is not DH per se, but Endurance. And the nerf is just remove the speed boost gained on hit. It will still do it's job, it will still give you a second chance to continue the chase or get free, but it won't be as punishing.
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@martinj97 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370775#Comment_3370775
Wasn't the burst removed in 6.1.0?
It still gives the survivor the speed boost from being hit, like it is hit when not injured. It is what makes DH a pseudo 3º health state and it is why it is a problem, as it can effectively extend a chase to double the amount needed.
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@qwertyuiopz66 said:
Nope dead hard is here to stay you don’t deserve the kill if they hit the dead hard you have been out played it’s been nerfed so you guys are really asking for something that will never ever happen
"You have being outplayed" Yeah, the strategic mind needed to push the button and be lucky that the killer do the hit in that moment and don't wait it out. I even heard that the army is looking for their next generals in the survivor main DbD community!...
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370599#Comment_3370599
Again. "Nobody" (sure you will find someone unreasonable everywhere - but most ppl just don't care) is complaining about survivors that fix all the gens but 3 middle ones - forcing killer into 3gen play. That one is fully OK and should not be nerfed.
The thing that everyone is complaining about is killer forgoing any chases and 3-4 other gens and just focusing his 3-4gen. In this case - where survivors DO complain your perks do nothing - the way I already said (so again - dejavu technically gives 5% speed bonus for limited time). The only "cool" perk for this one is that PT that is actually being complained about by killers, because it makes gen pop in 46s instead of 52s....
You are missing the point. Survivors already have good and useful that perks aren't total garbage that nobody use because they want to just use the "cool meta perks". This was in response to your "Do we really want to have just 10 perks used on each side and the rest should be total garbage?".
The rest you said is irrelevant for this specific discussion.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370631#Comment_3370631
2 words "game sense". Keep track of your tools and survivors tools.
Somethings the survivor has access to info some they don't. Some info killers get access, some they don't.
If the hub was supposed to help level the playing field with SWF, then balance changes for killer will happen after the killrates stabelized, just like the devs said. As the HUB isn't supposed to buff the best survivor teams. So buffing killers is only necessary if the killrates went down.
Keep track of your tools and survivors tools.
That's the problem, in many cases you can't. A couple of real examples that happened to me while playing with Nemesis using Iridescent Umbrella Badge :
- I get the notification someone used the vaccine, got to where it comes... there's 3 survivors, two of them the same, non of them with Contamination. "Hell, I think it was Feng who was contaminated... but now, what of the two?". Start chasing one, I hit her before the 60 seconds has passed... it wasn't her.
- Another one, a Dwight used the vaccine, I lost him, and later found him when chasing another injured survivor. "Has 60 seconds already past? Because if it don't, maybe it is more convenient to me to chase Dwight as he is not in a loop instead of keeping my current chase". I decide to bet, get Dwight, hit it... he wasn't Exposed anymore.
So, the question is: Why survivors can make decisions taking in count info they shouldn't have whatever it is from the Status HUD or someone telling them in a voicecomm, like how many people is in a gen, if the killer is chasing someone or if some other survivor is already trying to unhook, but I can not have the info of an effect that I produced so I can make decisions based on it?
It is illogical, and DbD is the only game that I can recall this is a thing. In any other PvP game you would have at minimum some visual effect that indicates your rival is suffering from the debuff you used, or even from buffs they got. Overwatch, WoW, LoL, any shooter that have any kind of DoT like incendiary grenades... you name it.
But not DbD. Not for killers, at least.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370562#Comment_3370562
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how HUD indicator helps me in 4man SWF more then information given to me by my buddies.
Keep in mind - other survivors give you full information while HUD gives you data (AKA clutter you need to actively filter out and so you are not watching for other important parts of the game). So no - having HUD does not lessen even a single word I will get from my friends and in 4man SWF it could be outright hidden - providing a very negligible benefit by not overloading me with "garbage" redundant information.
Someone argued to me that voicecomms are not as advantageous as many think because not all 4man SWF shares all the info they can because not all of them are tryhards that communicates like a SWAT team. So, there you go.
And before you say anything, I agree with you in this one 🤣
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@Mandy said:
Showing what survivor has a debuff on them, is far more than a quality of life feature - that would affect balance greatly, as if you knew that survivor has a debuff you would go for them. That would be akin to giving survivors notifications that a killer is in stealth mode for example - which is something I am sure no killer wants.
Spine Chill already do that and the surprise factor is effective until the survivors knows it is a stealth killer, and most killer perks and powers are notified to survivors through icons, notifications, auras or sound cues sooner or later. (NOED and any hex perk, Thanatophobia, DMS, Huntress starting to and throwing a hatchet, Wraith going in or out of stealth and his grunting, Nemesis getting ready his whip, Plague's sickness progression when she can't know how much it has applied to a survivor, etc.).
Survivors get all the audio and visual info they can get for free, but killers can't get a hook count or know when someone is Exposed or Exhausted it seems. And with the recent changes you can't even know what survivors are hit by some perks as if you are 19m away you won't hear them scream. And let's not forget that some powers don't even have a visual help to use them and you have to muscle memory it by practice. And many other things like the chase music and ambient sounds of some maps don't allowing you to hear the survivor steps to keep following him and such, but that is another topic.
So, we can conclude that all QoL, HUD and visual advantages are reserved exclusively to survivors?
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@Gandor said:
now you sound 100% unreasonable. Make killer 90% base speed. There's bloodlust and mind games. Good killer can get hit every now and again even with this speed so there is counter play. Problem solved
It is because I'm tired of being reasonable on some topics. First, everything the killer does needs to have a counter for it to be "interactive" and "fun" for the survivors. Then, we don't like the counter or is hard to pull off because killer's perks and accessories need to be primarily an advantage to him so we then complains that the counter is not enough, so we have to nerf the killer. And if a killer complains about the same problem with survivors, let's go for a classic here: DH, the answer is simply "bait it off".
So yeah, it has a counter, problem solved. Get better at pulling it off.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370551#Comment_3370551
Might be because DejaVu and situational awareness do exactly 0 about 3gens that are complained about? (sorry, DejaVu gives limited-time 5% speed boost on repair speed).
Deja Vu shows you the 3 most close by gens, Situational Awareness allows you to show other survivors what gen you are repairing so you have more chance of getting more people in it without using voice comms. Pair it with PT and like you know already 2 survivor would do the gen in 46 seconds and reduce the effectiveness of any regression made to that gen.
But nobody does that because again, everyone wants to be the cool kid in the fog and loop killers with a flashlight, not be the stealthy support.
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@Karmiana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329541#Comment_3329541
You kinda missed the point didn't you, if I am new player and my games are miserable as I am being tunnelled why should I invest more time in the game? Also, I have seen PLENTY of good survivors getting tunneled out so hard they don't have any chance. Look at all the streamer survivor main videos about it. So reality is killer mains need to learn how to win fair instead of going after new players or tunnel strong player for ego boost. I actually play as killer and I NEVER Tunnel. I don't need to. I get satisfaction of actually player a fair game and still get kills and yes even 4k.
I don't know... because you like the game and want to get good at it? It's unbelievable for me you don't see the hypocrisy of talking about egos when you made clear that what you want to do is not make the effort to be good but make everybody sacrifice their fun so they play how you like to make sure you are having your good time and win, whatever you deserve it or not. DbD is the only game where people are so entitled to having fun they would say things like this and be taken seriously.
No, nobody needs to learn to "win fair", YOU need to learn to win. YOU need to get better at the game if your fun is winning it. YOU need to make your fun. And if you don't find fun in getting better and winning by your own merits, or can't make your fun in any other way, it's your damn problem.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370215#Comment_3370215
Are you really complaining someone would use perk that has 0,77% and after such buff would still be MISERABLY WORSE then even self-care (killer perk on it's own considering time), because it would barely nerf a little perk that has 10,59% usage rate (stats according to nightlight, because we have no better source)? Did I understand your comment right? Do we really want to have just 10 perks used on each side and the rest should be total garbage?
Is OP really complaining about having the chance to use a perk and the killer having the counter to it?
Also, they didn't just asked for the perk to be buffed, they asked to rework it so it is not longer countered by Hemorrhage or for any debuff to be removed for free on hook. And I say they, because there is other people that agreed with that last part.
And sorry, but survivors already have a pretty good selection of perks that nobody uses because all they want is having the "cool kids builds" and loop the killer for 5 gens straight. The perfect example of this is the sheer amount of SoloQ players complaining about 3gens, but perks like Situational Awareness and Deja Vu are at 0.75% and 0.94% usage, respectively.
So don't throw a strawman to me, I said what I said: Another post of survivors wanting to be able to counter things for free, because is what it is.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370159#Comment_3370159
No you can't. The pallets are not that close together and legion can create deadzones insanely quickly this way + any legion worth their salt would disable their power so that they partly bodyblock you from next pallet (and you can't go back - the map has only pallets) - meaning the "chases" will be very short no matter what.
Someone will be very miserable again, but try it yourself and then talk. There's like close to 0 counterplay against this one.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370174#Comment_3370174
The problem isn't, that you can't stun him. Removing single thing from survivors is fine. Overall bamboozle does this against windows. There's a problem if you can remove everything. That starts to become something like DH that can be used again (like reset bleeding+exhausted statuses) if survivor vaults a window or use a pallet. Now this is close to what legion can do right now (and yes - there's still some counterplay. "bait it out before he can throw pallet or vault window or kill him with exposed while healthy").
Well, you said it yourself: it has a counter play. Problem solved.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370181#Comment_3370181
I wouldn't say closed the gap but definitely shortened it.
Imo if you threw some version of kindred on for solo they would have about 90% the info swf have.
If we are going to be that way, then what they should do is simply put voicecomms in game like any other squad-based PVP game out there. Of course, for that to happen BHVR needs to be willing to spend some of that DLC and cosmetic money in "voice chat" server processing, which I doubt.
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Oh look! Another killer thing survivors want to be able to counter for free! Nobody expected that!
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@TigerSnake said:
Parry mechanics aren’t fun in pvp games.
Parry mechanics that invalidate all the work done by your opponent with just the push of a button aren't, for sure. Imagine if in SF3 you would only need to parry the first hit of a whole combo. Too much reward for so little, and in the case of DH you have half a second to parry, not 1/6 of it.
But it is simple to fix. Just remove the speed boost on hit for it so it doesn't work like a literal 3º health state, for example.
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The solution to "SWF" is simple: Start
nerfingbalancing survivors taking in count SWF with voicescoms instead of balancing them around SoloQ survivors. Simple as that.They already closed the gap between the two, it is time to stop all the "WoN't SoMbOdY pLeAsE ThInK oF SoLoQ?" and treat all survivor squads like they were SWF.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Tbh I think it’s more that Julie’s Mixtape is a dumb addon and shouldn’t exist. Your reward for stunning Legion out of frenzy is…getting hit anyway because they get frenzy back instantly? Never liked it.
Getting punished for playing good because the other side have something that nullifies all your work? Crazy... you should play killer.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369784#Comment_3369784
idk if you want me to repeat it every single post but again: "I wouldn't even mind if Eruption was the exception to the rule and applied incapacitated for a few seconds. But I also said I doubt that would make anyone happy because that short duration is likely not useful enough." - You seem very hellbent on only accepting your own line of thought and absolutely refuse to entertain any other train of thought. As such I doubt it makes sense to discuss further. Let's leave it at a diplomatical: agree to disagree on Eruption.
As for killer: I don't play a whole lot of killer, true, compared to survivor anyhow. - But I got about 800 killer hours over the past year - half of which - or even more - is on one killer. I dare say: if you have 400 hours on one killer you're out of the newb pool. Prestiges and hours don't mean too much but I do think it's still safe to assume that P50+ and 2k+ hours survs aren't exactly new to the game either. But yes, I often do have my first hook right around the time the first one or two gens pop - and I don't sweat it. And neither do I camp or tunnel - I still average out at around 65-70% killrate - and that is while leaving the last surv to go and find hatch nine out of ten times. I play extremely chill and sometimes I can tell survivors can tell and they play rather chill too. - I'm tempted to say that's the secret; to just be chill and not sweat it.... but i am very well aware that many - if not most - people playing dbd beg to differ. So it's just what I do and it works for me and that's all i care about <3
It's you who is stuck in taking this personally. I'm talking about the community as a whole, and you didn't have anything to do with the reason behind the change. It's you who still keep arguing that you personally won't mind... great for you! Doesn't change my point in any way and doesn't makes you be more right about everything else.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369775#Comment_3369775
It's not survivor friendly no matter how you look at it. Survivor friendly power is something that engages. Something that brings challenge, but is possible to play around. Wesker is arguably good example. This? Sorry no. You discredited yourself. And "strength" of ability means nothing in face of being "survivor friendly"
I think you and me have a different definition of "survivor friendly". When I said "survivor friendly" I mean it is extremely easy to counter or avoid. But by your own definition, SM power don't bring any challenge to survivors as it is not a challenge at all to avoid or counter it. And I'm assuming that you meant "challenge" in "fun" for the survivor, but it should be a challenge for them because it gives an advantage to the killer. If you can completely nullify his power with ease, it's not an advantage.
To put it as an example, it's like putting a rocket launcher in a shooting game that everytime you use it everyone would get a shield they can use by just holding a button to not being damage by it. Why the hell would I want to use the rocket launcher in the first place? What advantage would I get from something that doesn't matter how much damage it does, it would be countered easily by anyone? Well, that's SM power.
So, I agree with you, but not in the way you meant.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369390#Comment_3369390
..... You are the one who made the argument that it is the same. I wasn't convinced because it is not the same; survivor and killer have fundamentally different mechanics. But I'll humour you: If anything a survivor stun is of the same category as the doctor's shock. A stun lasts 2 seconds - not 25. And since I didn't actually change my opinion or anything: I wouldn't even mind if Eruption was the exception to the rule and applied incapacitated for a few seconds. But I also said I doubt that would make anyone happy because that short duration is likely not useful enough. Again: the degree matters. A degree of incapacitated that is long enough to be useful is also unhealthy for the game because it prevents the survs from doing anything to progress the match in a disproportionate way, aka is way too oppressive.
Since the rest is even more off topic I won't address it. If you feel so strongly about it, I recommend starting a thread. I would actually like to join you in that thread cause it is an interesting argument.
You are making assumptions what the dev's intention/rationale was. Granted, so am I - but personally I think the devs trying to find a way to make slowdown perks more diverse seems more plausible. Another perk that blocks a gen isn't exactly adding to diversity. The incapacitated was something else and new in relation to perks --- and it missed the mark. And like I said I doubt the aura reading is gonna hit it either. Putting Eruption in with the chapter also means it could receive further changes together with other perks in the midchapter. I really hope they do that.
And I agree, there should be different flavours of 'this gen can't be progressed' - but I don't think we need more iterations of 'this gen is blocked'. There are other ways to keep a gen from being progressed right away.
On a side note: I would really love to see what kind of matches you play that are over in 4-5 minutes on average. And can I have some of those? Cause safe for a face camping insta down killer, someone overcommitting way too much to the wrong person or someone being plain afk... this hasn't happened in ages for me. Neither does this happen on killer for me - not on a regular basis anyhow.
I have easy this time to awnser you: If you were right in anything you said, they would just reduce the Incapacitation effect of Eruption to 2-5 seconds instead of 25, not changing the effect to something not even related to the original or that is not useful in any way unless you have a slugging build. Simple as that.
And I'm going to guess you don't play killer enough. The moment you start getting the good survivors that know what they are doing you would have 2 gens pop up by the time you do your first hook. And as someone that have started playing survivor as much as killer, I could say to you the times this didn't happen is because the survivors itself. I don't know how many times I would finish a whole generator by myself while my partners have their status icon empty. Those are the people that then complains about not be able to coordinate being SoloQ players.