Basement_Bubba420
Basement_Bubba420
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i had a similar game where one survivor dced at 5 gens.
i slugged the other 3 and let them bleed out.
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i noticed the game stutters alot more after 5.7.0
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@AnubisG0dlike22 said:
They'll announce to sell their company to the highest bidder.
EA will buy them
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Yes David could get pregnant with Feng's son.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
That's a nerf to boon perks that does not actually fix the issue with them at all.
the point is to offer different ways to counter boons.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2936220#Comment_2936220
“Woman”
Now, I’m not too familiar with Left for Dead, but I’m fairly sure Bill doesn’t identify as a woman.
In my head canon she does.
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How could you forget about Bill?
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@selflessnea said:
How would you catch them if they have the power of God and anime on there side
I'll play Nurse
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BHvR won't remove the grind as it's a business solution for them.
Grinding increases player engagement which increases play time which increases MTX sales.
BHvR doesn't care about making the game fun to increase player engagement, they just want your money in the lowest effort form possible.
There is a reason they have a litany of failed launches and games in their resume.
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Decisive Strike should kill the killer.
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For vs. Pig, Ghostface, Myers, Clown, Freddy.
For play Bubba, Blight, Spirit, Nurse, Hag
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BHvR is a small indie company. They are trying their bestest.
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No there isn't.
The devs don't want to show you either.
If you play killer late at night or prime time, expect imbalanced matches. It's the result when the surv/killer ratio is 1:12, 1:30, and 1:50.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927206#Comment_2927206
Sprint burst is a massive problem for Ghostface. Being able to negate it partially is an amazing addon. Literally spending 10-20 seconds marking someone and then they sprint burst / lithe / BL / etc to safety and start a regular chase is actually one of the worst things that can happen to you as ghostface. Doing the mark and then just downing them with your 5 seconds of exhaustion is huge. I actually consider ghostface one of the best fearmonger users purely because of how hard sprint burst hurts him.
With Night vision monocular you can probably bait dead hard too. Even if you mess up the stalk. M1 them, catch back up, and then reshroud and let them reveal you to get rid of the dead hard lmao.
Lasting perfume will probably be really good for camping. Knife belt I guess you could get to a 16m terror radius while crouched with monitor, though not 100% sure what the point of that would be yet.
Drivers License will probably be really good on a big map. Only being able to be revealed at 24m is a pretty close range, and should mean you can stalk with impunity from a distance, even if they know you are there.
Yeah SB is a big problem for GF. Typically this is resolved by figuring out who has SB, and just 99ing them. Start the chase, wait out the SB, expose and swing. The 5 seconds of exhaustion is kinda the inverse of this strategy, get as close as possible, expose them, and then go for the chase. Seems to be quite situational but its better than nothing.
The Night Vision strat is actually pretty good and I hadn't thought of it.
Perfume + belt are just bad overall.
DL is just meh. You still have to 99 and close the distance to get value.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927193#Comment_2927193
Probably because their update process is weird. They updated every Legion add-on, presumably during a 6 month period and NEVER noticed Stab Wound Study wasn't changed?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YNRC430HVJR0/stab-wound-study-png.png
dunno why they never changed Resurgence or Solidarity. Maybe because it would be a nightmare to code?
It's just laziness and incompetence at this point.
You would think there would be a thorough review process in effect so such things don't go unnoticed.
Perhaps something called a checklist. The designer assigned to the Legion changes could make this checklist and it could be reviewed by the Release Manager and a Senior Designer.
The designer assigned to the Hemorrhage change could literally grep "heal" in the file that contains all the perks. Make a checklist, and present the checklist to the team with suggested changes.
Solidarity and Resurgence are useless against hemorrhage. The very least they could have done was instead of healing progress, if you are mangled or have hemorrhage it will remove both effects.
The fact that this was missed eithers shows gross incompetence in regard to the development process at BHvR or a complete lack of understanding of the game from the team.
It's most likely a literal dumpster fire at BHvR with how poor of a showing this mid chapter update is. It's like this for every update.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926465#Comment_2926465
What? The reworked addons are a ~huge~ buff. They literally took some of his old best addons, like his iri and his green recovery, and made them browns
Olsen's wallet is nuts. Drop-leg Knife sheath is nuts. Outdoor security camera is nuts. He even has exhaust addons! Nothing was worse than sneaking up on someone, marking them, and then they sprint burst away. Now you can be the one sprint bursting towards them instead!
Crazy that people think M1 ghostface is the way to go when Wraith exists. Stalking is 100% how to play him, and he's got the addons to do it so much better now
Huge, huge buffs were had
Two brown addons are good now. The rest are bad.
Some of the yellow addons are good like Olsen's Address Book and Telephoto Lens. The rest suck.
Olsen's Wallet is good. I think it's the only good green addon but its situational.
His purps and Iris suck though. Only good one is as you stated Drop-leg.
For a rework this was really lackluster.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926784#Comment_2926784
for one don't make him easily reveal like now and don't make him hard to reveal there got to be middle ground here right now like he got no power on most maps.
also get rid of his chase music.
His chase music is way too loud
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It's cause he's still a garbage killer.
The "rework" didn't really fix any of his problems, just made his brown addons much better than iri/purps.
Huge waste of effort imo, which is amazing because BHvR will make statements about not wanting to reduce the grind until they have a permanent solution in place to avoid wasting effort.
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@Vlarian said:
Dead Hard, iron Will. I've counted 153 dead hards since grade reset. This is absoultely absurd. Theres no thrill in the chase anymore for "will they make the pallet?", "if I get them down now I could win the game!", "He's injured, he's vulnerable" etc. Whenever a survivor wants they can just get a free 20 extra seconds of chase, whenever a survivor messes up it doesn't matter.
Please BHVR, do something, NOW, not in 8 months.
They've had 5 years since Dead Hard release to do something.
8 months is not enough time for them. They need another 5 years. Look at GFs "rework" for goodness sake, they spent all that time and HE IS WORSE!
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BHvR should just shadow ban cheaters instead of explicitly banning them.
Place them in lobbies with other cheaters or bot killers/survivors. Don't tell them anything and slowly phase in the frequency at which they are placed in these lobbies so its really hard to tell the difference.
After a few months of them being placed in such lobbies issue the ban wave.
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And make all survivors and killer spawn in the basement.
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I couldn't read them so I asked them to change
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Don't worry Pig is getting another nerf because of the pig on Hemorrhage.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920531#Comment_2920531
- no, I didnt miss your point. Your point was that killers tunnel more because of the second chance perks, when before second chance perks, all killers did was tunnel. Right now, killers dont always tunnel unless they have to, and they are forced to endure punishing mechanics to force through it. Like, how is killers tunneling out 1 survivor maybe 70% of the matches "incentiviced" by second chance perks, when prior to second chance perks 3 survivors were tunneled out 100% of the time. So you're simply plain wrong. You might still feel like you need to tunnel because of them, but what are the odds that you would proxy camp and tunnel someone if you knew no one had a second chance perk. Remember when DS was changed and people ran it less often, and there was no obsession when there was no DS? With your logic, that means less reason to tunnel right? Well, the opposite ended up happening. People were tunneled harder in games with no obsession than in games with obsession to the point that obsession was made basekit to stop tunneling in games where there was no DS. You're just objectively wrong that second chance perks incentivize tunnelling, when the opposite has been proven to be true on multiple occasions.
- Very shortly after the EGC changes, and even then was she still better due to having a basekit slowdown mechanic. The only argument people have for Myers being not the worst killer is basically the existance of Tombstone Piece. But with that logic, Pig isnt the worst killer because of the Tape addon and her being able to camp one of the boxes. That doesnt make sense. Pig has one of the strongest killer potentials by bouncing off objects. And yeah, that might take a lot of skill and time to even learn where those spots are, but if you're going to put the best Pig up vs the best Ghostface, odds are likely that Pig will win. If you play her Ambush normally and rely on her traps, then she's not really amazing, but use her Ambush to bounce off pallets or even into jungle gyms and most of your games will end up in hatch games. Thats not something Myers can say, most of Myers games end with all 5 gens done. Legion absolutely needed a nerf, he wasnt just OP, he was broken, busted, no counterplay available. Even the most OP builds have counterplay, and that is often why they havent been nerfed yet, because they have counterplay. Otherwise Nurse her 3-blink addon would have been nerfed again to compensate for recharge addons(if recharge addons themselves arent going to be reworked, that is).
- Not really, only when SWF is having fun, but those are the kind of SWF where you often dont even feel the need to tunnel in the first place. Randoms are objectively worse when it comes to that, SWF who intent to win would never even give you the oppertunity to tunnel someone out, especially if they havent been hooked yet. Most of the games I play with my friends where we intent to win are games where we have 1 person always doing gens and at least 1 person always standing in the way of the killer when someone might be tunneled and we win in most cases as the last remaining person bounces inbetween doing totems and healing up the person who gets in the way. When we dont care about the win, it's often not altruism causing our defeat, it's simply that doing gens is boring. Technically it is altruism since we only do altruistic stuff, but the alternative would be holding m1 and sometimes pressing spacebar.
- Only on a very basic level has the meta always been do gens and get kills. But in that sense, League of Legends never changed meta, it has always been take down the enemy nexus. Overwatch never changed meta, it was always take over the objective and hold. Among Us never changed meta, it was always kill the crewmembers vs finishing tasks/voting impostors out. But going a bit deeper than the basic level, the DBD meta has changed a lot. I played from the beginning and quit when the meta became obnoxious, by the time I came back, I skipped over at least 3 meta's. Tunneling has always been a viable strat, camping has always been viable, doing gens as fast as possible is pretty much the only goal survivors have. But calling it the meta strat? Nah. Meta for survivors switched from hiding and secretly doing gens to running into the open on and off. Again, I could pull up an entire list of things that have changed. Just because multiple other strategy existed and were being used doesnt make certain things any less meta. I have gone months without seeing Nurse and Blight running both Ruin and Pop. They might have been running 1 of the 2, but never both. Nowadays, its hard to find a Nurse and Blight that dont run both. What is the difference? The meta. With all that explained, I am going to try and rush through the rest: a. not patrolling gens, you're prioritizing the hook over gens. Camping someone on second hook is a different strat than camping. The main camping complaint is killers camping from stage 1. b. nope, it was even switched up quite recently. Going from tile to tile was always possible, short loops were also quite possible. A lot of killers gained anti-loop abilities which are effectively reducing the strenght of single tile loops, because that was what players complained about a lot, forcing survivors into a more tile to tile loop, which was responded with a lot of killers gaining more mobility instead, forcing survivors back into single tile loops. You have mixes of both, ofcourse, but the main course of action has switched. There was even a time where single tile loops were impossible against doc, and times where single tile loops were the only real reason of preventing being hit by doc. And Doc was the first true anti-loop killer. c. nope, what the community has called a genrush, aka, 4 toolboxes(which now no longer exist btw), with bnp, wirespool, old prove thyself and old leader, only took 3 minutes for all survivors to get out even despite all the efforts of the killer. Nowadays, even with the most efficient way of doing gens is still at least 4 minutes for survivors to get out, and that is assuming the killer is focussing on 1 survivor only, never checks gens and would camp the survivor to death. If the same efforts are given, the game tends to last 7-8 minutes. Genrushing no longer exists. Even with the best team and the best tools, it takes much, much longer than 3 minutes. Nowadays, its just survivors doing their job. Would you call any killer that is camping a "killrusher"? Ofcourse not, that would be ridiculous. But there was a day where killrushing existed, back when Ebony Mori's werent yet nerfed. That no longer exists, so neither does killrushing. With that same logic, genrushing no longer exists. Camping has issues with the fun of games, not the balance of games. Same is true for tunneling. Which is why they are called out, because it is super boring, and in some cases coughcoughbubbacoughcough uncounterable. d. even when you didnt know, it was quite a good option. If there was a survivor nearby even without you knowing, they would give themselves away. And if they were SWF, you would know the other 2 wouldnt even be close enough to rescue, forcing 1 off a gen. As for BNP costing the killer the game? Only if you're oblivious. 2 Pop's fully negate 3 BNP's. 1 Pain Resonance fully negates an entire BNP. Ruin, on average, removes the worth of 8 BNP's per match. Saying BNP causes killers to lose is like saying Ruin is the instawin for a killer. Neither are true. e. Kicking gens was introduced earlier, which was also the first 3-gen meta for killers like Billy, as hiding from the killer was still survivor meta. Before, that wasnt even considered since survivors could be doing any gens and Billy could zoom around the map without preventing gens from progressing. My whole point is that new stuff and changes change the meta. Sometimes a bit slower than you think. Some meta's are shortlived, sure. In fact, there wasnt really a gen regression meta for a bit after the Undying nerf. It took almost an entire month for gen regression perks becoming more common again.
- it's not always as easy with self-care, but yeah, your last sentence pretty much supports my entire claim "the frequency and ease is what makes it meta". There was a very long anti-healing meta between a gen-regression meta and tunnel meta. I have seen gen regression builds in the anti-healing meta, and I have seen anti-healing builds in gen-regression meta, but that doesnt mean both were consistently meta. Right now, it's only a matter of days before killers remember that Sloppy Butcher is super powerful against CoH. Even before its nerf. I dont think CoH needed to be reduced to 50%, now its gonna be objectively worse than running self-care. Especially once killers realize that Sloppy Butcher practically negates any positive effect from CoH.
- Second chance perks incentivize tunneling because of the time wasted during a chase. Survivor Dead Hards during a chase to extend it by 30 seconds when they reach a pallet or safe tile? The killer needs a return on their investment in this chase. The investment has been increased, the return must increase. Tunnel this person out of the game to see your return. Same things with Unbreakable, FTP, DS, etc... Losing time, must get better return. Must tunnel. Also where did you get the 70/100% from?
- The same killers have been in bottom garbage tier for years. Your point is that some garbage tier killer is better than another garbage tier killer? I don't understand.
- So the majority of SWFs dont play the game to have fun? What is your point here? Mine is that SWFs tend to be more altruistic than solo. Thus, tunneling is more effective against them. If a SWF competes against an equal skill Killer, the SWF will win the vast majority of the time. The game isn't balanced around comms.
- Meta for survivors has never been just hiding. Someone needs to waste the killers time. In the era of infinite loops that was how time was wasted. The meta has been the same for years. Please tell me your version of the meta over the years. I know you mentioned this before, but that really seemed like a bunch of things that you separated (short looping meta vs long looping meta) to make it seem like there have been multiple metas. The only time the looping meta was different was in the age of infinite loops.
- When was this anti healing meta and what were the core perks/builds/strategies around it? I'm not familiar with what you're talking about.
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@Dustin said:
The Ghostface changes were a good start at in the very least making his addons suitable - Basekit could use some more love but I'm just glad he got a looking at. I feel the changes were the right ones I just feel he needs a bit more.
I'm very happy with the changes The Legion received - A lot of great changes the community has been asking for from BHVR for a very long time plus Legion has one of the most unique addons in the game now and I would love to see more addons like that in the future.
Yes I know - It's easier to reveal Ghostface now. I feel the changes make a great starting point where he can get another change. I remember it took Trapper several big patches before he got to the point where he is now and admittedly while he could still use changes I feel it shows BHVR isn't done with Ghostface. The main issue I see is when Ghostface is revealed he's essentially neutered of his power. I feel giving him some sort of utility outside of that would help him a lot. Maybe for example striking survivors with the knife reducing the cooldown on his shroud and downing a survivor instantly recovers it.
Also one thing I'm keeping in mind with these changes - I don't look at these changes as "Do they bring this killer up a tier" on the meta chart. I more so look at them as "Do they make this killer more fun or easier to play?". When I say easy it's not difficulty per se but more quality of life and less clunky. Something for example The Twins desperately needs addressed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2924900#Comment_2924900
I do like this concept admittedly.
What addons do you like using? Most of them are pretty bad imo.
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CoH is only part of the problem. It emphasized the need to tunnel to be competitive for most players.
Killers with 1000s of hours don't need to tunnel all the time but against an equivalent SWF they will need to.
Just because CoH got nerfed doesn't meant tunneling will go away. All the other problems are still there and CoH is still very very very powerful.
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Agreed.
If it's ordered left to right in terms of ranking within the tier I think B tier is:
Bubba, Demo, Nemesis, Pinhead, Gunslinger, Legion, Trickster.
Trickster may even be in C tier because he does so bad in certain maps.
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@The_Grim_Reaper99 said:
Overall this was disappointing; his base kit is practically unintentionally nerfed no thanks to reveal being easier for survivors. The real focus was on the add ons which at least are good but now he was and is still add on reliant, which is a bad thing. I expected more out of the rework for Ghostface.
I would’ve given him the ability to enter lockers and teleport to another one as mobility. He can exit them quietly to stay in his nightshroud or ambush out of them similar to pigs ambush, instantly downing a survivor if Ghostface hits them.
I think the teleport is a good idea.
I think his addons are still pretty bad for the most part. Some of his brown addons are ironically the best imo.
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@ukenicky said:
What would you propose for buffing him then?
GF is a killer that is stuck in the 90s. We just had a new Scream movie where they use technology to their advantage.
- Add cameras to the map at fixed locations. These cameras are stationary and have a fixed view.
- Survivors who are in view of the camera trigger a notification at the camera. The notification takes 1 second to go off. Additionally, the camera will give an audible noise to alert the survivor they are in view. There can be addons that affect the camera.
- GF has the ability to take control of the camera so that they are able to move the camera across a wider angle and stalk survivors who are in view.
- Survivors can disable the camera for several seconds with a flash light or similar. This will disable that camera for several seconds.
- Now GF has map wide pressure being able to stalk without having to physically establish a LoS. Also, they can stalk without being spotted from behind a wall.
- Hitting a survivor will no longer reset stalk.
- Stalk is still reset upon downs.
- Resetting the stalk is archaic at this point. With the buff to the exposed effect stalking can be used mid chase when the survivor is injured to give GF undetectable thus increasing the utility of their power.
- GF should reset their power upon hook.
- This tends to happen naturally anyway because of the time it takes to pick up the survivor, carry them, hook them, and then walk out of LoS.
- Just make it a passive as a baseline and emphasize hooking survivors over slugging.
- Change some of the addons that are still garbage.
- For instance, Knife Belt Clip reduces terror radius by 8m when crouching. This is garbage.
- Instead, change it so that survivors who reveal ghost face are blinded for 40 seconds.
- Buff the perks.
- Remove the cooldown on thrilling tremors.
- Have it apply only the first time you pick up a survivor and reset upon hook so GF can't just drop the survivor repeatedly to keep the gens blocked.
- Reduce the cooldown on I'm All Ears to 20 seconds.
- Furitive Chase is kinda cool but needs a buff. Make it so that it also hides your red stain for the first 3/6/9/12 seconds in a chase depending on token count.
- This synergies well with GF's power of being an ambush one shot killer.
There are so many more things that can be done. GF just still sucks and its really sad. Maybe GF could interact with lockers, like stalking survivors from them and popping out of them. In the movies GF is scary cause they could be anywhere! In game, we don't really have that and GF just walks around everywhere like a peon.
- Add cameras to the map at fixed locations. These cameras are stationary and have a fixed view.
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@GreenDemo said:
Bro, all stealth killers suffer from swf (well, maybe not wraith with add-ons).
The add-on overhaul is great tho. I hope it becomes a trend (as in overhauling add-ons)
Truth.
Wraith + Pig suffer the least from comms but both are terrible at looping, especially Wraith.
GF + Myers require stalking to use their kit which is easily countered by comms. It's why they needed buffs. Unfortunately GF just got an addon rework so I'm sure we all know what Myers "rework" will look like.
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@Hanzo_Hasashi7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2924614#Comment_2924614
mk isn't negative? robocop stands over there and keeps shooting and if you don't have the right character you're officially FOOKED
But he's robocop and its lore accurate.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
So i took a break for acouple of months from DbD.
Pursued some other hobbies, joined another community that i'm really happy with. Overall i was a lot happier.
Now recently i started going back to play some dbd and not much changed. I still was happy, and while there are still problems with the game i could brush them aside and pretty much enjoy all the games i played. Win or loss didn't matter.
Then i started going back to the forums. Not even talking that much, just reading what people had to say.
It didn't take long untill suddenly i started getting annoyed at the game sometimes and i felt my mood going down.
I always knew this community wasen't the best but now after being part of an actuall positive one i start to realise just how bad it is.
Now i realise this is probably mostly me being very easilly influenced by such things but i'm it applies in some degree to everyone.
If you are someone who visits the forums dailly and the game is wearing down on you or your overal mood isn't well.
Quit the forums before you quit the game.
You would be surprised just how much this constant barrage of negativity can influence how you feel about the game and outside of it.
Oddly enough there are many games where the community isn't negative.
Maybe it has something to do with the game itself rather than the community that forms around it.
Even in hyper competitive games like MK or SF aren't as negative as this.
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@Sepex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320510/bring-back-sbmm
Stopped reading after 'used to escape literally every single game'
He escaped via entity picking him up from hook every game.
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Dead Hard gives you 3.8m in a chase. This if used in a straight line away from the killer, you used it an angle.
Default lunge is 6m. T3 Myers has a longer lunge
You look to be about 7-8m at most away from Myers when he exists the window. You lose .6m of distance per second while in chase with a 115% killer. The chase went for around 4 seconds before Dead Hard was popped, so the distance between you and Myers after those 4 seconds was 4.6-5.6m. Well within lunge range.
Using DH would give you 3.8m or about six seconds of distance but again, it was used at an angle so it was probably alot less. So even with the max 3.8m you'd be at 8.4-9.4m. Myers hits you about 2 seconds after the DH so thats around 7.2-8.2m of distance when he starts his lunge.
Myers T3 lunge range is around 8m I think, so your just barely within the range if everything went your way.
So this looks like one of those outliers where Myers just barely got you. I think even if you played perfectly you couldn't have made the pallet.
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I like it.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920763#Comment_2920763
I've seen the video - and I'm not completely disagreeing with you at all.
But these are not ALL the employees, nor are these the people that actually slave day in and day out chewing through code and wrangling engine renders.
I honestly think that the company has a vast issue with top-down leadership, from the looks of it, which is sad, because there is a lot of passion that is put into the work that makes up Dead By Daylight.
There are tons of systems where the grunts who do the legwork are teeming with great ideas and ambition, but poor leadership choices from the executive levels and strangling pipeline inefficiencies mixed with chaotic production changes from all sides can smother the good willed and hard working employees under a blanket of antipathy.
It is not to say that this is a thing that is happening for sure in the company. But my years in the production field give me the gut feeling that this may be one of those tragic instances.
This could be the case but I think there are some foundational technical issues with the game.
For instance, back during release you could change your bloodpoints by editing a file.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
and yet the game continues to be alive…
I know it must really make some of you miserable knowing that the game you hate so much is still here.
Battlefield 2042 is also alive.
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Yeah I've noticed alot of chinese players as well lately.
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Nurse + Bubba.
Blink towards a survivor and chainsaw them.
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Basement Bubba.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2920440#Comment_2920440
- No, tunneling meta existed before. Second chance perks were introduced because of a tunneling meta. CoH doesnt even incentivise tunneling at all. You just chase a survivor, down them, hook them, chase another survivor, down them, hook them. Odds are that the survivor getting unhooked was getting healed by the survivor who unhooked them anyway.
- Objectively wrong. Myers has been there for a long time, but there were times where Legion was worse, where Pig was worse. There was a time where Myers was B-tier. Nurse has been the only consistent killer who has always been S-tier. The rest of killers have fluctuated based on available maps, perks, etc.
- It's not incentivized. Tunneling and camping often leads to only 1 kill. It's only when the lobby has random players who cannot communicate that tunneling and camping leads to victory.
- Perkwise maybe, but strategy-wise? There was a time where unhooking survivors ASAP was more beneficial than leaving them on hook for example, unless there was an ebony mori. As for the rest: a. as opposed to camping, yes. There is 2 main activities when you hook a survivor: 1. camp. 2. patrol gens. b. There is a difference between long loop(aka, holding w, going from tile to tile ASAP to save on resources) and short loops(pre-dropping pallets the moment you get to a tile to get the most of the tile before moving on). There have been days where pre-dropping pallets and sticking in the same area was much more beneficial than going from tile to tile. We are now in a tile to tile meta due to a lot of killers punishing survivors for being at a single area, while back in the day, survivors were punished much more harshly for going from tile to tile than otherwise. c. Genrush doesnt exist anymore, even with toolboxes, killers recieve plenty of time to cause a ruckus. Healing, well, duh, its a core mechanic, not meta. d. As shown in A, no, its not been. There was a long time where going away from the hook ASAP to cause survivors to unhook even faster was much more beneficial than camping. That was right after the introduction of BT in fact. e. well, 100% wrong, because there has been a long time where killers couldnt even regress gens. Let alone that Ruin didnt exist for an entire year and Pop didnt exist for at least another year. The meta was downing people as quickly as possible, learn things like moonwalking asap(I've seen players with 1000 hours who dont even bother moonwalking, it's quite beneficial and could have easily given them 5 more hooks than they ended up with). So no, objectively wrong, and I am talking from experience. Maybe what you say is true starting from late 2018/early 2019, but prior to that, the worst you would encounter was Billy with Ebony/Ivory Mori and Dying Light proxy-camping the obsession, when the rest of killers actually tended to be quite far away from the hook and rarely tunneled unless they were Bubba.
- Again, there isnt a lack of variety, its simply that there is a "best build". Nerfing all current meta perks isnt going to create more variety, its just gonna swap out the best builds with the second best builds. And the meta has bounced, it tends to follow which ever meta gets stirred up the most. If camping is the best strat, survivors will default to sitting on gens. If doing gens is the best strat, then killers will camp. If looping is better, survivors will actively search killers to distract, and patrolling gens would be the best strat.
Now, you can easily say that games will have a mixture of each, but that's not meta, that's simply mechanics. Healing is a mechanic, survivors being able to heal up isnt going to be meta. Whether or not survivors prioritize healing over anything else dictates whether it is meta or not. If survivors rather sit injured on a gen than heal up, would you really call healing meta? You do, but how is it even meta? If survivors heal up before doing gens, is genrushing meta? Obviously not, because they are healing up. You cannot have genrushing and healing both being meta at the same time, it's one or the other. Either they sit on gens injured, or they heal up before doing anything else. Just like patrolling gens and camping are seperate meta's. Either you're camping the hooks, or you're not. Different meta's can exist for/against different killers sure. Like how it's never been meta to heal up against a Legion unless he was actively coming for you. But that doesnt mean the meta doesnt change overall.
- What? You didn't even address my point. Tunneling existed before, sure. Tunneling is even more incentivized by BHvR because of the lost time from all the second chance perks. At least before the second chance perks you could go for 12 hooks without worrying that the 30 seconds you spent in chase will be wasted because of a Dead Hard or CoH.
- How is it objectively wrong? Pig was worse at one point, she is still bad. Still awful. Legion was OP on release but quickly nerfed into awfulness. The rest of the killers have a general rating based on their performance across all maps. This performance has been the same for years.
- No. Tunneling against SWFs is even more effective because of altruism. Tunneling against SWFs is also effective because they lack the coordination to realize tunneling is occurring and work on gens effectively. Getting a kill before 3 gens are completed greatly swings things in favor of the killer.
- In terms of strategy the meta has always been the same.
- You can patrol the gens around the hook. Also, killing someone early has always been a huge power boost for the killer. Maybe back when BNPs were OP gen patrolling was preferred over camping/tunneling but camping immediately after the first hook isn't preferred anyway. It's when the survivor is somewhat close to reaching second stage when camping gets juicy. SoloQ will at least be near to try and get the save and SWF are even more inclined to save. SWFs may stand a chance because they're on comms and can focus gens but even then an early kill is a huge boon to the killer.
- This was when infinite loops and uber loops were common. These were terrible from a design standpoint and removed. They should have never existed. Since their removal, the optimal strategy is to not be greedy, drop the pallet to be safe, and go to the next tile.
- Genrush does exist. It's the objective of the game for survivors. It's literally how they win.
- Going away from the hook to attract survivors to unhook because of no DS/BT was suitable if you knew another survivor was close by. Other than that, again, proxy camp the hook. BNPs pretty much cost killers the game anyways.
- You're right. Hex: Ruin wasn't added until about 6 months after release. So regression hasn't been meta for the whole six years. Just 5.5 years.
- Healing is meta because of how easy it is do with CoH, Self Care, SWF prevalence, and info perks like Empathy. Healing is always beneficial but the ease of it is and the frequency that it occurs is what makes it meta.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919092#Comment_2919092
Seeing what good players do with Sadako compared to what they can do with killers like Myers, Trapper and Clown without too much effort, pretty much is a huge counterclaim to her being dumpster tier.
She's heavily reliant on being the better mindgamer, which is actually refreshing, where other killers like Blight and Nurse often are brute force killers where survivors have to mindgame hard.
As for your points:
the grind (which they created); technically yes, but at the time of creation, DBD didnt have the expectation it has now. Fixing it isnt that simple, takes time and resources. Should they have looked in it earlier? Yeah, definitely, Pyramid Head was the last killer where it was somewhat fine, it should have been looked at from that moment. But before that? Not really that big of a grind.
tunneling meta (which they created); Nope, killers created it, you might claim there has been a lack of interest in fixing this meta, as perks arent really fixes, but BT and DS did have a big impact on that meta for a while.
half of killers being awful (which they created); Not all killers can be S-tier, half the killers arent awful, they simply are not gonna be capable of facing S-tier survivors. If all killers were equally good, then all survivors you face should be equally capable of countering those killers. Thats not really the case. The healthiest balance is a bell-curve. The current balance is close to a bell-curve. It's not neccesarily the killers being awful, its survivors you face being too good for the killer you're playing.
toxicity (which they created); You cannot create toxicity
MMR(which they created); Yeah, but its being worked on.
Meta being the same for five years(which they created); Objectively wrong, because there was a camping meta, a tunneling meta, a chasing meta and a genpatrol meta. That's just the killer side. Then there was a long loop meta, short loop meta, healing meta, genrush meta and even a flashlight meta. The meta has switched a lot, it just bounces between a tunnel meta and a gen regression meta right now depending on whether there are killers who can tunnel hard or not(if killers get nerfed, its often due to their massive power to tunnel).
lack of variety (which they created); There is a huge amount of variety, but that variety wont be used in higher MMR, even if all current meta perks are nerfed. Thing is, once there is a "best build" for a certain killer, that build will practically be static and only really vary with different addons. Same would be for a best build for solo surv, or a best build for SWF. There might be slight variance between certain combinations, but there is always going to be a list of 24 perks(out of 100) that would practically cover all possible strong combinations.
So out of all your points, 1 is fully legit, but being worked on, 1 that is semi-legit, but only because the game lived to be 5 years in the first place, the rest is what the players have created with the tools that the devs have given. Are those tools perfect? No, but thats more because the players are like toddlers. They run around with scissors, stabbing hundreds of people while laughing their asses off only to be stabbed by another toddler with scissors and then crying that that one toddler shouldnt be running with scissors.
- The tunneling meta is created by BhVR because of the numerous second chance perks survivors get, numerous escape options they have, and the fact that the killer is always operating on a time constraint. Perks like CoH incentivize tunneling because of the abundance of healing, thus increasing the time it takes to down a survivor and penalizing the killer significantly for allowing anyone to heal. The meta is created based on the rules of the game. The players don't make the rules for optimal strategies, they come up with the strategies based on the rules.
- Yes, not all killers can be S tier. We've had the same killers at S tier for years. The same killers at garbage tier for years. Certain killers just have no play making abilities. The survivor is the playmaker and these killers rely on the survivor messing up. There should be basic killers for sure but not so many.
- Toxicity is created by incentivizing toxic gameplay like tunneling and camping.
- Survivor meta has been the same for years. DH/SB, DS, BT, UB/IW. Killer meta has more variety but for the most part has always relied on regression perks heavily. As for your description of metas, I have no idea what you're talking about. on many of them
- Gen patrolling as meta? As opposed to what, standing still? It's literally the objective of the game.
- Long/short loop meta? You mean looping? Another core objective of the game. This is opposed to what, standing still again? TBH, looping isn't even really meta and never has been. Just predrop and run.
- Genrush/healing has always been meta for survivor. That's the meta you nailed it.
- Camping/tunneling has always been meta for killer. That's the meta you nailed it.
- Regression has been meta for killers as well. You nailed it. So that's the meta for killers. Camp/tunnel and regress. For years. There aren't even any good camping/tunneling perks!!! Yet devs keep adding survivor perks which incentivize these things!!
- There is a lack of variety. The meta (tunnel/camp genrush/heal) has been the same. Seeing the same perks over and over again contributes to the lack of variety. The same game mode for years is a lack of variety.
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HOOOOOOOYAAAAAH
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Pls give Bubba a hat too.
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@Mandy said:
Being completely realistic here, we had daily complaints over the old matchmaking system as well.
Most players would end up at Red Ranks - same as they end up at Iri Grade now (although right now, a bit more time is involved due to everyone being reset to the beginning), especially as you only dropped a colour ranking section on the 13th of each month so more and more players ended up in red ranks and there was a massive mix of skills at that level. Players were matched with other ranks around the same rank system (depending on queue times etc) and still the matches were unbalanced, we'd have players complain they got stomped or they did stomp.
I think we naturally (as humans I mean) look back on things more favourably with nostalgia rather than the reality of the situation in general.
I agree that most players ended up at red ranks.
However, I think that has more to do with implementation of the grading system than how skill is calculated.
In a single trial a player had the following options
Depip - colloquially considered a very bad game, someone got tunneled or the killer just couldn't compete. this was fairly hard to do but did happen.
Safety Pip - no change. killer/surv did okayish, maybe got some hooks or gens and rescues/
Pip - +1 to progress. killer maybe got a kill or two, survivor did gens and got rescues and got chased
Double Pip - +2 to progress. killer probably got a 4k with short chases, only a few gens done, multiple hooks. survivor went ham and got multiple gens, multiple chases, totems, multiple saves/heals.
So the natural progression of things was a slow march forward. If the scoring for pips were reworked, making the safety pip range smaller, adding a -2 pip, I think the old grades would have been fine. They at least seemed to measure the correct things when it came to skill.
The reset further complicated things, but this seems to be a result of the intended monthly rewards as opposed to a reset for ranking purposes.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919406#Comment_2919406
You're focusing just on basic attack hits you dodge not the numerous antiloop abilities.
Yes avoiding a basic attack wont give you huge distance but on smaller loops it will still help and in the end the perk shouldn't counter everything
I get people always go to dodging basic attacks (which all killers can do) and say you wont get much distance but just keeping the iframes turns DH into a perk used to avoid special attacks of antiloop killers.
So it still has a very strong and good use, it's just situational and a specific use. So good against the already strong antiloop, weaker against basic attacks (but still possible if the killer misses on a small loop)
So the ability should focus on countering anti-loop abilities?
I think this would be useful against certain killers as you've stated and it would make it much more niche.
This would bring it more in line with the other exhaustion perks which are also fairly niche (except Overcome which is very strong imo).
I don't think it would be strong enough to take though. Sure, you can iFrame through the Huntresses hatchet, but she has four more waiting for you.
I think it may need a buff or additional effect to be useful.
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@Necronl0rd said:
With Grade-matchmaking, as a killer I got with back then ca. 200h and Iri 3 or 4, 8 out of 10 Games multiple Players per game with way over 1000h-3000h of playtime and you saw that obviously in game, with the new mmr, it became like 2 out of 10 games, with 1 person over 1000h, who wasnt so far ahead of me. ( And here and there some backfill-lobbies :( )
So For me as casual gamer (I think mid-mmr), yes the new balance isnt optimal, but it feels way better then before.
But of course this is just my personal experience.
This is interesting. Do you think the difference can be attributed to the differentiation between Killers MMR?
That is, killers you have less experience with will have lower MMR and thusly you'll be placed with lower hour survivors (generally speaking ofc).
Previously, you had one grade and it didn't matter if it was your first time playing clown, if you were rank 1 you were probally playing against survivors with alot of hours. Now, because the clowns mmr is fresh for you, it is unlikely you will.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919362#Comment_2919362
Yeah I dont want survivors to have a 3rd health state just for running a perk, that's like the old MOM.
Being broken or even put in mending means nothing, the issue with DH is it corrects mistakes (like you said) but then you have gone and said they can get another health state...
Itd be better to just have the distance gone and keep the iframes so a player has to time their dodge to get the value, it gives DH a skill cap.
Iframes can be baited out with antiloop killers you just hold your ability but the distance cant be baited out as they arent doing it to avoid a hit its purely just for free distance.
If you get outplayed at a loop by a basic attack killer the survivor should go down. No perk should correct a mistake or give another free health state.
I agree that a 3rd health state is bad but I also think that just iFrames is too much of a nerf. The killer has a 1.5 sec cooldown after a basic attack and whiff, so the survivor can get at most 6m of distance (depending on if the killer lunged, continues walking in the direction of the survivor, where the survivor is headed, etc...).
The 6m of distance gained (at most) is the exact length of a killer lunge. Killer can chase for about 2 additional seconds - again assuming max distance was gained - to reduce the difference to 4.8m which is well within the lunge range and provides exactly 25% clearance (rotations by the survivor can easily be covered by the killer).
So this, imo, would make Dead Hard pretty useless even when it works. This is why I think there should be some sort of speed boost involved.
Killer successful attack cooldown is 3sec.
1 sec of speed boost is 6m
2 sec of normal speed is 8m.
Killer barely moves after landing a hit so it's around 14m of distance.
14-6 (killer lunge attack range) = 8m
8/.6 = 13.333 seconds to make the difference.
Maybe the 13.333 seconds is too long for m1 killers so the speed boost should be reduced, or the killer should recover from the basic hit faster.
One would have to consider the avg distance between tiles and whether its acceptable to cover around 52m as a third health state, but that's why the drawback is there.
On the other hand maybe the penalties should be increased, but it still requires precise timing and can be baited out.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Just curious, where did you find the exact player count on consoles and epic?
My girlfriends uncle works at Microsoft and she works at Sony.
IDC about Epic.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919094#Comment_2919094
I have seen less of it TBH in past week. More self unhooks than usual though without the perks or offerings.
This can't be proven and might just be coincidence.
Yeah I've been noticing alot of self unhooks when everyone is slugged.
Also seen some unbreakables without actually have the perk or the boon.
They're already back.