Basement_Bubba420
Basement_Bubba420
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2900680#Comment_2900680
Remember, MMR places new players with new players and experienced players with experienced players. So new players are getting a 50% escape rate, just like experience players.
Yes, with the MMR expectations. We haven't seen kill rates since MMR has taken effect but I expect noobies vs noobies to result in 50% kill rate.
The problem is that during peak hours there just aren't enough killers.
It's inevitable that new survivors will be placed with experienced killers and noobie killers with experienced survivors.
The thing is there are far more survivors than killers 12:1, 30:1, 50:1 at various times during peak hours and late at night. So more survivors will be placed with more experienced killers resulting in more 4Ks.
If BHvR would just stop being lazy and provide an API then we could look at stuff at escape rates and make our conclusions without them drip feeding and cherry picking information they want to show because they're afraid of their own ineptitude.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/318399/dead-hard-nerf-when-it-ruins-this-game
A nerf to a perk that is used by 50% of the survivors while the average kill rate is hovering slight above 50% would require a massive nerf to all killers to balance out the massive change in the kill rate.
I don't use Dead Hard but, when you are talking about game balance, that perk is a corner stone perk of 50% of survivor builds.
The game shouldn't be balanced around noobies. There is a learning curve. There is MMR to pair noobies with other noobies.
Average kill rate is 2 because most noobies die resulting in a 4K. BHVR doesn't release kill rates at high MMR levels because they don't want us to know the truth.
In the six years they've spent "working" on this game - and lets be honest the biggest improvements are to the graphical fidelity - they haven't added an API for players to use to look at stats. They simply don't care about balance or aren't good enough to make the game more balanced.
They do nothing and expect us to be happy. I've seen more done in two years from indie devs in early access than BHvR with 800 employees working on DbD.
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Hopefully the dev who came up with Dead Hard has left or will leave the company. They made the most overloaded perk in the game.
@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2897745#Comment_2897745
I was just about to say this.
Notice how it is always “distance to a pallet”, never the other 300 different scenarios in which DH sucked.
The other 300 scenarios in which DH sucks is because the player is a potato who ran into a wall. Lol, get real.
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Do whatever it takes to get off the rink. It doesn't matter if you have the most SOG, G, A, beat up the entire other team single handedly, bribe the ref, melt the ice with your speed, make a goal while doing a triple backflip 1080 with a blindfold and your arms tied behind your back, or get nominated MVP by your team.
You still suck if you don't get off the rink and be deranked in the listings.
Never, ever, forget this.
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@MetaBuildSurvivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2897388#Comment_2897388
First of all, you would only post this to discredit BHVR. If the player count had incrased I really doubt you would have made a post about it.
Yes you are cherrypicking. Sure steam is dropping, but how can you say that consoles, or epic count isn't increasing? You don't exactly have access to those, and lets be honest, I doubt that even 50% of the player base uses steam to play.
I didn't make the OP. What the heck are you talking about? Maybe read the name of the guy who wrote the OP. If you would have simply read the OP than I really doubt you would have made a post about it.
Yes, you are cherry picking. You literally just made some stuff up. Sure, the games Steam population is decreasing, but how can you say that consoles or epic count isn't decreasing? You don't have to accept those, and lets be honest, I doubt that even 50% of the player base plays more than a couple games a week.
Why do you think BHVR deserves any credit when they hide so much information from the player base?
The games population is dropping, the ratio is terrible, the balance is terrible, the QoL is terrible, the grind is terrible, and the overall throughput from the Devs is terrible.
People keep bringing up how survs that die early enter the queue early. Okay... so if the entire population ratio is 5:1 why do we have 12:1, 30:1, 50:1 ratios for 15 hours....
If the ratio was as even as these people mention we would NEVER see a queue this bad. The largest amount of survivors that can die "early" is 3. If the ratio is 4:1 and in every game 3 survivors die early the queue SPIKES until the games end, after which it drops back down. It only goes up to those huge ratios when there just aren't many killers playing the game.
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This would require them to do actual work that isn't centered around MTX. We don't even have match history. They are just too lazy.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895617#Comment_2895617
I think your reasoning is off on the queue times. Matches take 10-15 minutes or longer typically (unless they’re a total blowout). One side or the other will be short on players, for the sake of argument let’s say we have fewer killers than we need. While that’s the case all killers will essentially be getting into lobbies pretty much instantly, so they’ll be in a game within about 60-70 seconds. Meanwhile the excess survivors have to wait for matches to finish for new spots to open up, so they’re only getting into a new game about every 10-15 minutes. So if killers are the short side the killers in queue will always be nearly zero while the survivors in queue will be proportional to the wait time difference which is the ratio of the match time to the minute timer in the lobby basically (10-15 to 1 at peak times). And at off peak times, which that blog article inexplicably focussed on (it’s primary headline went with something like 3 AM for some reason) you will have an even longer wait because there will be times when no killer is waiting for a match simply by chance since there are fewer players to begin with. (That 50 to 1 ratio was the extreme off peak hours figure, not the peak hours number which is obviously the better value to look at since the great majority of players in the overall population play at peak times.)
P.S. It’s easy to actually add up the numbers in the blog plus the numbers on Steamcharts to get what should be the actual ratios. In another thread we did that and at around 4 PM it was something like 1000 people in queue at something like 900 to 100 ratio I think it was and around 41,000 players total on Steam in matches and queue combine. So when you work it out the ratio at peak times was around 32900 survivors to 8100 killers.
The example you proposed assumes that matches end in discrete intervals (i.e. every 10-15 minutes a set of matches ends) and killers thusly enter the queue in these intervals. So survivors who died early wait 10-15 minutes, a bunch of killers end the matches and enter queue, and then those survivors enter a new set of matches.
This isn't the case. Matches are constantly ending and survivors/killers are constantly entering the queue. The 4:1 ratio you described overall should never, ever, allow for queue ratios to get to 12:1 or 30:1 or 50:1 given a large population. If that were the case, how do we see a ratio of 6:1 in the morning, do the intervals just magically stop?
BTW, the peak hours was 12:1 at the start of prime time, and within an hour goes to 30:1 which it stays there for a while before going to 50:1.
I understand what your saying with the example and I can see how it causes spikes in the ratio/queue times. However, there is no way that the disproportionate ratio will maintain for 15 hours if the overall ratio was 4:1 or 5:1.
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@hiken said:
are they that incompetent they can just not black list words in especific and thats it? and all possible "variations" people want to create so they can get used? literally, bhvr always doing the bare minimum... banning words like that is unnaceptable, u cant even speak.
Yes. They really are that incompetent. 0 thought went into the chat censor design and implementation. Like most of the game.
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I'll join you. Anyone I see laying down CoH is getting face camped.
Tell me your in game name and I'll give you hatch.
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@Pulsar said:
Dead Hard does require skill to use it to its maximum effect.
That's why nobody complains about people who DH into walls.
The people who dead hard into walls could complain about object permanence which if you think about is very OP.
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@SuzuKR said:
I think your title should be less combative. I think using it to dodge attacks is good design and healthy. It can be baited. It being used for distance to a loop is unhealthy, which BHVR correctly realized. It cannot be baited. Not a survivor main. I play both sides evenly.
Thank god they realized this after 5 years
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892776#Comment_2892776
"it's problem is when it is used to extend a chase by dashing o a pallet or vault. This is uncounterable" well so is ALL OTHER EXHAUSTION PERKS besides head on
"if you think DH is counterable i seriously question your overall skill as a gamer"
it is counterable now the i frames is unnecessary in my opinion but you can bait it out with most killers isnt it weird how otz, d3ad and basically everyone else can pretty reliably bait out dead hard besides you? if your pyramid head you can press m2 quick, flick your camera if you walk close enoughyou can press m1 and its almost impossible to react its a guessing game...
Yes, that is the problem.
SB, Lithe, Balanced, all have specific conditions to be able to use to dash to the safe zone. Dead Hard is press E.
Again, it's possible to counter DH out in the open. In fact, that survivor is probably dead anyway even with DH. Just like how the other exhaustion perks won't help you in the open.
The problem is that it's an instant 3.8m of distance activatable on command.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894457#Comment_2894457
The blog article I saw had misleading numbers, it was listing lobby ratios which is just players waiting in a lobby for a game and doesn’t include players actually in a game. Lobby counts are significantly smaller than actual players in matches and all matches have exactly four survivors and one killer. So the real ratio is much closer to a a bit under 20% of players are killers than “50 to 1”. (In other words when you have 2 people in a lobby waiting as a killer and 100 people waiting as survivors, but you also have 10,000 matches going, there isn’t a “50 to 1” ratio of killers)
The numbers aren't misleading imo, although they might be straight up wrong.
If there are 10,000 matches going on, and the overall ratio of survivors to killers is 5:1, then there are matches constantly ending and survivors/killers rejoining the queue. The queue ratio will never blossom to 50:1 for hours. It may spike up there a couple times but for it to be this ratio for hours indicates that the ratio is a correct representation.
Now if the numbers are entirely incorrect, that is they are not representative of the Eastern US region at all and only a single server from the sources local region the situation you described may be correct. In this case the numbers aren't the queue at all and just a local server. If the former case is true than I don't think scenarios that you've described can exist for hours.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894488#Comment_2894488
Even if the ratio between killers and survivors were even. 1 killer for 4 survivors. Survivors get killed and can queue up for another game when they die. Killers have to have all 4 survivors dead or out of the exit gates before they can queue up for another match.
Let's do the math with just 4 matches with killers. At the start there are 4 killers and 16 survivors. They get into a match and each of the games 1 survivor is killed. The survivors leave the match and queue up again. Now we have 1 party waiting for a match. Then the second survivor is killed in each group and we have a second survivor group waiting for a killer match, the 3rd survivor is killed and we have 3 survivor groups waiting for a match, and then we have 4 survivors killed. The 4 killers are able to get out of their match and instantly queue up because 3 out of 4 survivor groups have been waiting.
This is a simplified example of what is going on with killer and survivor queue times. For killers and survivors to both have fast queues I suspect that the ratio of killer to survivor players needs to be 3:1 not 4:1
Sure. Games last on average 10 minutes. With an estimate of 2-5 minutes from the first kill to the end of the game. Average is a 2K per game.
There is no way the ratio is going to 1:50 unless killers disappear from the queue entirely after playing a game. Survivors who die early will queue up with other survivors who died early. There needs to be four survivors per killer. Once one killer finishes their game and enters the queue those 4 survivors are matched. If games are ending at a constant rate there is a constant cycle of killers and survivors entering the queue and the ratio will never grow to be so disproportionate.
The situation you described can account for spikes at a single time, but they don't describe why the queue is 1:50 late at night for hours. This indicates something is terribly wrong. A ratio of 1:6 like what is seen in the morning isn't that bad. In fact it's quite good considering the balance in the game. It's probably what is to be expected if there are slightly less killers than survivors and the situation you described plays out repeatedly.
However, again, the queue quickly blossoms to 1:12 in prime time and within an hour goes to 1:30. This just doesn't make sense unless there is a serious shortage of killers.
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Bubba
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894457#Comment_2894457
This is really interesting (and not surprising) data. Do you have a link to these blogs where the data are available? I’d be super interested to read. If I’m BHVR, those killer to survivor ratios are alarming but yet we see they remain hesitant to make any quality of life improvements for killers (actually have done the opposite with things like adding boons to the game). It’s not surprising at all that they are seriously looking at adding bots to the public matches. Pretty soon that’s the only way survivors will be able to play without horrendously long queue times.
Supposedly BHVR is deleting posts that provide the link. They deleted my post on steam that contained the link with no explanation of course. Google "DBD player populations and network traffic" and you should be able to find the blog.
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@Ghoste said:
Do you mostly play Survivor? Don't quote me on this, but I thought I heard it tends to give you dailies for whichever side you play less.
I mostly play Bubba
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894488#Comment_2894488
Survivors leave a match quicker, meaning there will be more within the queue. Killer queues are also much faster, meaning less of then will be in the queue as they are much more likely to find a lobby, thus removing them from the queue.
Therefore, the ratio is no where near as serious as 1:50 because it doesn't account for people within lobbies, the endgame screen, or in a match itself. Simply just the amount of people queuing within that second. And the very fast killer queues make the numbers seem substantially worse than they actually are.
Source: the original poster of the statistics.
Some survivors leave the match quicker. The average kill count is 2 per game. The last kill most likely occurs during the last minute or so in the game if it's not a 4K. There isn't much here that would describe such a disparity in the ratio.
Certainly, a small drop in the number of killers can produce a large disparity in the queue ratio but nothing like 1:50. Again, the previous poster provided a good example with numbers indicating a 1:5.45 ratio being possible overall and 1:50 queue ratio existing.
However, my question still remains. If players are exiting matches and requeueing at a constant rate (in near parity, I estimate the avg difference between the first survivor exiting the match and the killer exiting the match at about 5 minutes at most) how do queue times get so large? It's like killers leave the match and disappear.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894463#Comment_2894463
The people in matches were in queues before.
Lets make the math, just as an example:
40 Killer in Queue and 2000 Survivors in Queue. This is a ratio of 1:50.
Now we have 20000 players in matches. This is a 1:4 ratio, so we have 16000 Survivors and 4000 Killers playing.
This means, at this point, 22000 Survivors and 4040 Killers are online. So the actual ratio of players playing is around 1:5,45, so for each Killer, 5,45 Survivors are playing. Which is not bad.
You can do that with actual numbers and you will notice that the result is not even close to something like 1:50 or even 1:30 or 1:12. Looking only on the players queuing up is wrong, you have to keep in mind those who are playing, because those who are playing are in the ideal 1:4-ratio.
(Obviously, you have some other things to keep in mind like players just having their game open and not queuing or playing or Survivors requeuing because they died in a game, but there is no way to calculate that)
I see what you are saying.
How is it possible that the overall game population has a ratio of 1:5.45 and yet the queue is 1:50. That doesn't make any sense. Do Killers just drop out of the game after their match that night?
Sure, some survivors die early and enter the queue sooner but in my experience any death that occurs before exit gates or 1 maybe 2 gens remaining is followed quickly by the deaths of the rest of the survivors (2-3 minutes avg unless killer is being nice).
The queue is a reflection of the ratio overall. Survivors wouldn't be waiting 4-5 minutes on average late at night if the actual ratio was 1:5.45.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894457#Comment_2894457
This Data only showed players in queue, but there were fare more (8-10 times as many, if I recall correctly) players in matches. Which does not add up to a 50:1-ratio.
How do you think players get into matches?
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Love doing that and camping in the basement.
No one escapes basement.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894447#Comment_2894447
Ringu is not a "significant licensed chapter".
But this discussion is pointless. Players WANT to see this game dying. They always ignore the fact that the RE-Chapter caused an anomaly with way more players playing than usually. The numbers are basically corrected to the normal number of players in this game.
Other games are also not dying when their big hype is over. They just adjust to a normal value.
If you look at certain blogs that analyze queue populations you'll see that survivor to killer ratio is 6:1 in the morning (EASTERN USA) and quickly goes to 12:1 and 30:1 during prime time. At night it can reach upwards of 50:1.
This would seem like the game is dying. Only a few people left that actually play killer.
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BHVR doesn't care about the surveys. They just want $$$. If everyone was miserable playing DBD and they were making record profits they wouldn't change a thing. $$$ is the only thing they have ever cared about.
It took them 5 years to add colorblind support and that only occurred after negative media coverage. They even lied and said "ITS BEEN IN DEVELOPMENT FOR MONTHS!!" but they only had a few screenshots to show. It still took them months after their announcement.
The surveys are intended to make players feel good. That's it. If they wanted to act on the surveys they would have released the results on the previous surveys and mentioned design decisions they were making with explanations as the result of the survey. They don't do this.
If they wanted to they could release full stats on the game or just provide an API the community could use to datamine information. Kind of like popular games like League of Legends or Smite. They don't this.
They know that people keep playing because of the skinner box mentality of the grind. That's why it's gotten so huge over time. Their comments about fixing the grind and wanting to do it "right" to not waste effort are ridiculous. They just want the oxytocin to be released in our little brains everytime we RNG a perk we want and hope that we keep playing and buying MTX.
Look at BHVRs track record. They got lucky with this game.
Warhammer Eternal Crusade - dropped after a failed release.
West World - killed by lawsuit after copying and pasting code from work they did for Bethesda.
Deathgarden - dropped after a failed release.
Deathgarden was actually a fun game that was marred by bugs and balance issues but it could have been sorted out. They just didn't have the talent to do so and it wasn't making enough $$$ so they shuttered it.
If DBD goes through a rough patch I don't think they'll tough it out. They'll close the game and move back to contract work.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892717#Comment_2892717
Comparing it to other perks does not make it OP.
You wrote that entire paragraph and it shows nothing about why you think it is OP. All I see if comparison to other exhaustion perks, even though they are suppose to be different and strong in their own way.
Keep trying though. I am sure the more you complain about DH the more it will stick.
"Comparing it to other perks does not make it OP".
What should we compare it to then? How is the power level of any perk supposed to be measured if we do not compare them to..... the other perks?
There is a litany of reasons why DH is better than the other exhaustion perks. Sure some might be better in very specific situations but for the overwhelming majority of situations DH is simply better.
SB gives 4.2m in a chase. Over 3 seconds.
DH gives 3.8m in a chase. Instantly.
SB gives no iFrames.
DH gives iFrames.
SB maintains collision as the killer swings.
DH removes collision as the killer swings.
SB is used automatically if the survivor isn't exhausted.
DH is used whenever the player wants.
One of these perks completely outclasses the other. Which one do you think it is?
Or you could just keep ignoring the evidence and advocating for DH in it's current state. I'm sure the more you make up faulty reasons the more it will stick.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890392#Comment_2890392
Yet, there is those of us that DH does not have that same effect because we know how to deal with it.
If you are losing games simply because of DH then I have to question your overall skill as a killer.
You can't deal with DH.
It's problem is when it is used to extend a chase by dashing to a pallet or vault. This is uncounterable.
If someone is caught out in the open and you wait for them to DH before the swing that's not you countering them. You would get them even if you missed. That's them being caught out in the open.
If you think DH is counterable I seriously question your overall skill as a gamer.
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BHVR refuses to balance around SWF despite it being a problem for years.
You just gotta accept the fact that you will probably lose if they play to win and not altruistic.
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Maybe if the ratio of survivors to killers was 4:1 like the game intended we could consider the game to be balanced.
Instead with ratios like 50:1 during late night and 12:1 - 30:1 during prime time we know which side is preferred by the majority of players and BHvR will cater to this side.
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Here is my suggestion for a rework.
Survivors should be able to "watch" the T.V. The T.V. can be synced with Youtube and can function exactly like Youtube.
While watching "T.V." survivors accumulate bloodpoints at the rate of 300 BP/S. There is no limit to the bloodpoints earned in this manner.
The T.V. does not have adblock and displays an ad every 15 seconds (free money for BHvR). After completing an ad the survivor receives 3k bloodpoint bonus. There is no cap to ad BP.
While watching the T.V. the survivor suffers from exposed, oblivious, blindness, and exhaustion.
The T.V. is very loud and can be heard from 64m away.
Survivors can take a tape from T.V. and put it another T.V. This will force that T.V. with the tape to play the most recently watched video from the T.V. where the tape was taken. Only Sadako teleporting to the condemned T.V. will reset the video.
Survivors who manage to watch 8 ads get a free hatch that only they can use. They also get a free item with two free addons (completely random). If they do this for 10 matches they also unlock a free random cosmetic (any character) and this repeats there after.
Survivors who stop watching ads are instantly exposed and moriable for the remainder of the match, cannot use hatch, and cannot use the exit gates.
The incentive here is to watch ads for free stuff and an easy escape while some poor sod loops Sadako (easy pz) for 4 minutes. Also BHvR gets money from the ad revenue which they can use to make new killers and maps. Everyone wins.
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but if they ban all the cheaters then I can't blame my losses on subtle cheaters.
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It's still a fun game despite BHvR.
Devs definitely seem to be on auto pilot for the last several years.
The only time they actually worked efficiently on something was the colorblindness debacle where they lied about it having worked on it for months yet only had a few "screenshots" to show for it and then rushed to actually get it out.
Of course the most major changes have been the well received MMR, more MTX, and the revolutionary wiggle mechanics.
Still waiting for major QoL improvements like a hotkey that lets me buy nodes in the blood web faster, bloodpoint cap increase, match history, perk search bar, etc...
But every so often the devs will randomly decide to work on one of these features and it's just enough crumbs to keep me going.
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@Dionysus42 said:
I guarantee it. So its gonna be the new meta and people are going to complain that he's in every match. There is always going to be a complaint about strong killers.
And then devs will nerf Pig.
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Why not just give the killer free informational perks like Spies From the Shadows, I'm All Ears, Nurse, BBQ, etc... dependent on the SWF size.
SWF already gets 30+ free perks just for being in voice chat.
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Mass slug or if possible bring them to the basement and facecamp.
I always run Agitation + Iron Grasp, maybe throw in Starstruck if I see 4 toolboxes.
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ITT people who don't wanna do math.
Dead Hard usage in a chase allows the survivor to gain 3.8m on the killer. In an instant.
SB allows for 4.2m over 3 seconds.
Dead Hard can be used if the survivor is injured whenever they want.
SB is used immediately upon sprinting.
Dead Hard provides iFrames and the ability to ignore collision if the killer swings.
SB provides no iFrames and still has collision.
One of these perks is extremely overloaded and poorly designed.