Aven_Fallen
Aven_Fallen
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I dont think Stake Out needs any changes. I mean, you mention Fogwise and Corrective Actions as part of your argument and this already shows that your argument is not really strong. Those are super niche Perks and are completely fine, even with Stake Out.
The actual value Perk is Hyperfocus. And I think at this point a Survivor is investing two Perk Slots into their Build for this AND Stake Out does not really grant consistent value IMO. The Combo Stake Out/Hyperfocus was really popular when Wesker released, simply because RPD was boosted (after its Rework a small map) and he has 40m Terror Radius. But once you did not go against Wesker every game and did not end up on RPD that often, the Perk value dropped.
And I think the current userate is ok and shows that it is a Perk Combination worth taking without being too good. Simply because the value you gain is not consistent. It depends on the Killer and the map you are on. And that it is better against the Killer with huge Terror Radius is actually a good thing.
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@UnicornMedal said:
There are a lot of naysayers, but it all went downhill when they added anime and Kpop. Nobody would've bat an eyelash at Junji Ito, but everything else? You can write it as "disturbing" as you want—it's still out of place and it shows. It's also around the same time they really started playing into fanservice, which also kills the horror vibe.
Granted, all that being said, I would love things like a Scooby-Doo collab and I think FNAF was a good addition. Call me biased, but I don't believe those IPs kill the vibe.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077242#Comment_4077242
It's still so crazy to me how decent the models look in Left 4 Dead 2 versus the game they originate from. 💀
I think if you want to pinpoint it to characters, the moment they brought Nicolas Cage into the game was the moment where it was clear that basically everyone can join the cast of characters, as long as it brings BHVR money. Because this was probably the latest points where something does not need to be Horror anymore to be added.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077262#Comment_4077262
How they are balancing bottle necks: Some killer powers simply aren't built around survivors being efficient. So when survivors are efficient and have on average longer chases it creates a sisyphus scenario where it quite literally it would take the survivors throwing for you to have a chance to win. And given the skill floor of survivors keeps getting lower and lower because of basekit changes or nerfs to killer in general some changes DO need to be made.
Back when survivors were just running around doing nothing or the general rank system and not MMR exhaustion would have seemed fine but giving free distance for doing nothing to the role that has more players is just not healthy game design.lol, no. Not even compareable, lol.
If you would nerf Sprint Burst and Lithe, those Killers would still be bad. Because it is their own power which is the issue, not anything Survivors have. Meanwhile, Nurse and Blight are balancing bottleneck because they hold back things like Perks for Killers (even if this is not really the case, the Devs just dont care too much about those being overtuned).
But really, at some point - can people like you stop trying to blame the game for losing? Now you are losing games because of Sprint Burst and Lithe, before you were losing games for different reasons. Maybe instead of moving the goal post all the time, accept those two things:
- You cannot win every game
- You might not be as good as you are and you lose games because you make mistakes and not because the Survivor has Perk X.
I know, it is hard to do this.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077238#Comment_4077238
Sprint Burst and Lithe are DEFINTIELY over tuned. We call Nurse and Blight balancing bottle necks. When SB and Lithe specifically and to some lesser degree Dramaturgy do the exact same. These perks existing is my sole reason of not playing low tiers because it just incentivizes boring gameplay on both sides.
Yet those exist for years and did not get complained about. Complaints only started when so many other things for Killer got improved, as I said, the goalpost got moved. Now it is "We will stop tunneling if Exhaustion Perks are nerfed". Before it was many other things.
How the Perks are balancing bottle necks or compareable to Nurse and Blight needs an explanation for me.
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@Mooks said:
i mostly miss the horror aesthetik.
Sure, the Visual upgrades are nice and models and textures look better. And gameplay-wise i get why they were stepping away from too much darkness as it was too easy for survivors to play stealthy without progressing the objective.
But imo these issues are now resolved with how the afk crows work. There is no real Need for players to be able to see across the whole map from anywhere and also see the edges of the maps.
Please bring back the original atmosphere, with the fog, horror aesthetic, lighting, this can work on Daylight maps as well.
Exactly, the horror aesthetic is gone and this is the biggest problem. But the game turned into a fashion show with a bunch of skins and I guess a more horror-like atmosphäre would be the total opposite. And honestly, it is not even that the game looks awesome graphics wise. The graphics dont look that good for a somewhat modern game and I would honestly prefer the old aesthetic, because the maps looked better and more unique, even if they were not as pretty and polished as they are now.
Also, for a game which has the slogan "See you in the Fog", there is awfully little fog around. It is basically non-existent at this point.
And they should try to work on the aesthethic. The Feeling of a Horrorgame is gone after a while and does not really come back, simply because you cannot experience it when subjected to it for too long. Like, I could watch the scariest Horrorfilm and would be terrified. If I watch it 100 times, I would not bother at all anymore. Same is with playing DBD for quite some time.
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No Exhaustion-Perk is overtuned. You see how much better the game for Killer has become if we are now at the point where they complain about Exhaustion-Perks, which are the same for YEARS. But all other things got better and better and now the bar moved to that.
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@DNS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077092#Comment_4077092
i guess then i just wait for bleedout every time when i get my juicy 4 down slug.
So you would rather waste your own time, because you care so much about an invisible number (MMR) which is basically completely irrelevant at this point?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077038#Comment_4077038
Anti-3-gen perk in the sense you can block your teammates from clearing the wrong gen. Repressed Alliance in boon form.
Yeah. But considering that I have seen teammates who finish my 99% Gen (as if this was not left on 99% for a reason), I am very sure there will be people who sit at the Gen next to the Boon someone put there so that this Gen does not get repaired, just to do it anyway for 3 minutes…
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077004#Comment_4077004
Plus it only works if you hit great skill checks so unless you run a skillcheck triggers faster build it's not even worth it even if you remove the slowdown
Yeah, this is basically the cherry on top that the benefit you get from this Perk is pure RNG.
The only usecase I can see is to put the Boon on Gens which should not be repaired, lol.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077022#Comment_4077022
I voted for the crows too. They are way too underutilised. Boons are considered so hit and miss that i was surprised it won
IMO Boons are only miss at this point. Sure, I have seen games where a good Exponential was really helpful or where a CoH helped to reset quickly, but those were really the exceptions. Most of the time Survivors are wasting time setting up something which is not worth the time they spent on it. So this alone was a reason to not vote for that Perk for me. But also it said it will give Gen Progression and I just knew it will not be good, because we dont get good Gen Progression Perks. And while those Perks are only concepts so far, the recent Drama on Fast Track lets me doubt that they will buff the Perk.
The Crow Perk on the other hand had more positives for me:
- Crows are underused, there is only a handful of Perks which somewhat interact with Crows (and this is counting Calm Spirit, which basically removes Crows from that one Survivor)
- A Crow Perk overall sound way more interesting than a Gen Progression Perk or a Boon Perk
- There was more potential that it was actually good.
So a Perk which might have been good and most likely would at least have been more fun. But I am not surprised that people voted for Gen Progression, but IMO it should have been clear that it will not be a good Perk.
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@KingKongBubba said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/466896/killer-meta
You should thank the brilliant minds from BHVR approving diminishing returns for that one.
Nah man, this has nothing to do with Diminishing Returns. The simple thing is that running 4 Slowdowns is possible on any Killer without exception. Some Perks work better on some Killers and not really on others (e.g. BBQ is good on a Blight or Billy, but way worse on a Myers or Deathslinger). But Slowdowns work equally as good on any Killer, with slight variations. But there are enough Slowdown-Perks to have 4 for every Killer.
Plus stacking slowdowns and tunneling are just the easiest ways to play the game. Obviously this will be done.
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If I remember correctly, you could vote for the Boon-Perk or the Crow-Perk. I voted for the Crow-Perk, simply because I thought that Crows are underused and Boon-Perks are terrible anyway. But I was not prepared for THAT Boon-Perk, this is a Killer Perk, without a doubt. Even tho I have seen people saying that the Perk is strong because of the Perma Gen Progression, which just shows that some people dont think too much about things like that.
I am not really blown away by either of those Perks, the Killer Perks are overall better than the Survivor Perks, but I dont think any of those will be used. E.g. even if the Cooldown would not be as big as it is on Lay Waste, PGTW is just better without any doubt (even pre-Buff PGTW would be better).
But Steadfast is a new low when creating Survivor Perks.
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@Elan said:
I think that the main issue was how easily you can injure whole team as legion and paired with Oni it's quite overkill. I don't truly understand why people tend to get him back into 2v8 so much. Some killers just can't work in that way. It's the same why I don't think Plague or twins would ever be good to add into 2v8.
People want Legion back because they were in the mode before. They are also a very popular Killer.
IMO if BHVR would have never added Legion (because it is clear that they dont fit in 2v8) we would have less people asking for them to be added. That Legion was added in 2v8 in the first place makes no sense at all. But at least the Devs realized that and also dont add other Killers which might cause similar issues.
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@Crowman said:
BVHR is just very slow to kill switch problematic broken stuff on the survivor side. I remember the last time it was Streetwise causing infinite item charges and they really dug their heels before they finally killswitched it only a day or two before the patch. It's just weird when they'll killswitch killers quite quickly.
Not really. BHVR just does two things when it comes to Killswitching:
- They are inconsistent
- They are too sparse with the Killswitch
I think the second point got better since the Streetwise-Drama. And the person communicating back then is also not here anymore, so they probably learned from it.
But what they killswitch is inconsistent. I remember one time that there were Maps which had uncleansable Totems, those were fine. Unsnuffable Totems were not fine, this got killswitched. Then you had things which were really minor and got killswitched and more broken Things were not killswitched (e.g. the Doctor and Merciless Storm-thing back in the day where it could reset a complete Gen… And killswitchting Merciless Storm would not have been an issue at all).
Nemesis and STBFL took also long to killswitch. And well, Streetwise obviously as well.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076631#Comment_4076631
Didn’t BHVR at one point had DS at 5 seconds? I would love for it to be 5 seconds again.
I can’t remember if this was true or not, but I hope they make adjustments to the perk since they have all but scrapped the anti tunnel changes.
The last time it was at 5 seconds it was only for a short time, because they also added a new stunning animation, which took longer than the old one, meaning that the Killer was stunned for 5 seconds, but the distance gained for the Survivor was roughly the same, because the animation was longer. They scrapped the animation and put the old one in and then changed DS to 4 seconds in a Hotfix shortly after.
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10 seconds is too long, but it should be at least 5 seconds. And honestly, some other things as well. Like working twice (DS is a mild inconvenience for most Killers anways and the tunnel is free after the second unhook), giving Haste or better ways to hide after using it, not running out while chased (this one is especially funny, because all people say it should not be used aggressively, since it is an Anti-Tunnel Perk, but when someone gets tunneled for too long, it runs out…).
Obviously not all at once, but it is pretty bad for what it is supposed to do. (Not saying that DS overall is a bad Perk, but an Anti-Tunnel Perk should be a middlefinger towards the Killer, not a slight annoyance)
EDIT: Since the title says "against high mobility S-Tier Killers" - I would not mind if DS works better against strong Killers than weak Killers. A Ghoul should be stunned longer than a Trapper for example. But then someone needs to balance this and I dont know if BHVR would be able to do this. I remember their difficulty ratings back in the day with Billy being classified as Easy and Wraith being classified as Intermediate for example… So not sure if they would be able to balance a Stun Timer based on the Killer player properly.
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@RizeKagune said:
Horrible change, revert asap please. I'm sorry but if new players couldn't understand a loading bar progressing I really don't know what to say.
I dont even think that the progress bar arrows are helpful for new players in the slightest.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076478#Comment_4076478
Is there any evidence they lied about Distortion?
The stated reason about 'rat play' doesn't work with Distortion, as Distortion only allowed rats to help the team while playing safe. It didn't enable ratting since lockers still exist.
Yeah, the Distortion change did nothing against Rat behavior, since those people are just spending more times in Lockers. Let alone that I have almost never seen actual Rat behavior and both times I can remember, Distortion was not involved (one somewhat recently, another one I think even before it was buffed).
But yeah, Rat behavior was the communicated reason why the Perk got nuked, but it was not the actual reason.
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@Skillfulstone said:
I don't get it...
I think OP means that instead of the Survivor the community voted for, BHVR should make an attractive female Survivor. Which does not even make sense, since the attractive female Survivor people could vote for looks totally different than the image OP is using.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076239#Comment_4076239
Agreed! Doesn’t these types of skins usually come with unique Mori’s?
I bought my first one with Houndmaster the ultimate Houndmaster, but it kinda felt like I didn’t get much with it.It is different from skin to skin. E.g. the MiNA-Skin has a custom Mori (and IMO this is how a skin with that prize tag should be).
The Houndmaster-Skin has a unique looking Power. The issue I have here is simply that I think those should be sold separately. Because to have a different Dog you also need to like the rest of the Skin. I play her very rarely, so I did not buy the skin anyway, but if for example Billy would get a Skin with a different Chainsaw-Model, I would be disappointed if I dont like the rest of the Skin and would not get it for example.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076093#Comment_4076093
I'm using killer examples because this outcry was about a survivor perk, but yeah, those perks as well. And if the issue is being rewarded for your opponenent's successes—or just normal actions—then we need to look at 2/3 of this game's perks.
If the problem was that you could sit on a gen while your team traded hooks and instafinish halfway through, solely from the killer doing their objective, that's what the perk already did for years. If the problem was the permanent progress, it still has that. If the problem was stacking, they should have made it so the tokens only go to one randomly-chosen user. They should have just reverted it really, and not doing so just feels stubborn. To top it off, Mandy called this a side grade. It's not. It's a massive nerf. Not just to the last iteration, but to the one before.
And all of this happened over the course of a couple weeks. It used to take long (often excessively so) periods for things like this to happen. DH, MfT, stacking Vigil, Blight's recent nerfs. These had long runs. But there's been a trend in the last year or so of things getting instanuked, and the increasing loudness of CCs seems to be the sole reason. Every time they get mad about something en masse, you'll see people on social media parroting their exact words. The amplification of a handful of people's views has become insanely influential, and it seems like BHVR will decimate anything that gets any of that negative traction. Fog vials made it, what, less than 2 weeks? Pallet denstity got a similar treatment.The anti-tunnnel ptb was a few days, not enough time to gather data on so many large changes, many of which could have gone through with adjustments. But they walked it back completely. All of these share the same common thread of hyperbolic complaining on various platforms.
So my issue isn't that it happened, it's the real reasons it happened.
Fog vials made it, what, less than 2 weeks? Pallet denstity got a similar treatment.The anti-tunnnel ptb was a few days, not enough time to gather data on so many large changes, many of which could have gone through with adjustments. But they walked it back completely. All of these share the same common thread of hyperbolic complaining on various platforms.
Fog Vials were dead after one week on Live. Mass complaints about a new useable Item were enough to get them killed immediatly (just so that people can go back about complaining that healing speeds are so fast because many Survivors bring Medkits..).
I wrote something similar under a Youtube video today, for me this is a very concerning trend. Four times now (2 times for Anti-Tunnel/Anti-Camp, Fog Vials and Fast Track) things got changed so quickly instead of just waiting a bit. I think all of those things could have been resolved better, Fog Vials with making them consistent on all Maps (and waiting until new toy syndrome is gone) and the other things with meaningful tweaks which keep the ground idea, but more balanced.
And we have to consider that other things move at a snailspace. Like, Blight and Nurse got small Nerfs after YEARS and those dont change much on their strength. Meanwhile, other Killers got Buffs so small that they might not even exist. Like, nobody can tell me that it takes years to figure out that the Detonation Delay from Doctor can be buffed by shaving off 0,05 seconds of it. And on the other hand, when enough people (CCs at the front) complain, then things get changed in kneejerk reactions.
Since this happened 4 times already, I know it will happen again and again. And personally, I am not excited for any positive Survivor-changes anymore, simply because you always have to fear that they get reverted immediatly. Because those Content Creators and their loud followers have had success 4 times, they will do that again and again.
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@Good_Pancake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076302#Comment_4076302
thanks, I was wondering since it would make progressive perks much worse if it was the case. Also, does it work on items? Can I still make a super speed sabo toolbox or it is gonna be meh speed?
Survivor Add Ons and Killer Add Ons are not included in Diminishing Returns. So you can still equip a Toolbox with Double Sabo-Speed and get full value. Same you can run Double Speed on Blight and get the full value.
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A) is wrong. Each Fire Up Token grants consistent 6% Increase.
Now it comes to how many Tokens Fire Up has. Fire Up grants 6% increase per Token, Brutal Strength has a fixed 20% increase in Pallet Break Speed. So until you have at max 3 Tokens, Fire Up will be affected by Diminishing Returns, from 4 Tokens onwards, Brutal Strength will be affected.
So:
1 Token —> Brutal Strength 20%, Fire Up 3% —> 23% Total
2 Token —> Brutal Strength 20%, Fire Up 6% —> 26% Total
3 Token —> Brutal Strength 20%, Fire Up 9% —> 29% Total
4 Token —> Fire Up 24%, Brutal Strength 10% —> 34% Total
5 Token —> Fire Up 30%, Brutal Strength 10% —> 40% Total
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Can we have Windows of Opportunity partly Basekit as well? You know, because it is the most used Survivor Perk.
Furthermore, Pain Res does not do anything to incentive not to tunnel, it is still always the best to tunnel one person out and then get the rest of your Pain Res-Stacks on the three other BP-Pinatas you have left.
Borrowed Time was mainly made Basekit because it is stupid Perk Design that you have to rely on someone else having a specific Perk when they farm you. Something you cannot control.
IMO Pain Res is way beyond good enough as a Perk to invest a Perk Slot in and there is not really a need to make it Basekit. You have a strong Perk, use that strong Perk. It is a good investment.
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To add to what @Starrseed already pointed out correctly:
If you get a 15min penalty, you already DCed a few times before. Usually the first DC is free, so if your PC crashed, you would have no penalty when you are back online. Then you get a five minute penalty and then 15 minutes. So you would have already DCed twice before your PC crashed.
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The main problem with Nurse is that Nurse is allowed to exist like she is in the first place. Not that she is in 2v8. This is different from Legion, who is fine power-wise, but not suited for 2v8.
If you remove Nurse from 2v8, you would still have that character that does not play DBD. Even tho it would be nice to have a mode where you would not face Nurse, IMO all Killers which can be added without causing problems should be added to 2v8. And Nurse is one of them.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076177#Comment_4076177
You hit the nail on the head. BHVR could have done so much more and should have for the price tag. They need to fix this asap.
Yeah. Either by adding stuff to the Skin or by adjusting the price (and compensate those who already bought it).
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076177#Comment_4076177
I mean, it's not like the skin had any unique features on mobile either to begin with. I'm also not sure why you expected a unique terror radius, when none of the existing skins on core has such a feature in the first place.
Plus anyone who expected additional features from a mobile skin, regardless of if it had or didn't have any additional features on mobile in the first place, quite honestly set themselves up for disappointment. As every mobile skin ported into core are all treated the same regardless of rarity, with previous ported mobile skins being proof of it.
If we consider all of what you just said, then BHVR should have just put the Skin to 1080 ACs instead of 1485 ACs. With 1080 ACs you would see way less complaints.
And I dont think that any of the previously ported Mobile Skins has the same rarity, so your arguments dont really fit. Because Ascended Rarity (or whatever it is called) for 1485 ACs should give more than Ultra Rare for 1080 ACs.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I feel like a joke, the quality here is quite sad. not even chase music either. is this how Daryl made you feel @Aven_Fallen?
Yeah pretty much.
But I would say the Attack Titan Skin is even worse. I did not buy it, but even seeing it got me upset for several reasons:
- They are pure Ports from Mobile
- They are 3 Recolors which dont differ much from each other for the full price… IMO if you buy one, the others should drop to 1080 ACs
- The Skin is not worth the price tag of 1485, since it does not have enough unique features for it… No unique Mori, not even a unique Terror Radius (THIS is cheap!)
- And the worst part is - we have Naughty Bear who is the same price but features so much more
I dont blame anyone who buys the Skin because they like Trapper or Attack on Titan. But it is such a lazy work from BHVR that they dont deserve any bit of money for it. Even if the License Holders were against anything which would make the Skin unique (like new Chase music or a Mori), then BHVR should have put the Skin at 1080 ACs and not 1485.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075813#Comment_4075813
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075816#Comment_4075816
It already is a Survivor sided mode we could completely Skullmerchant treatment the killer side and their still wouldn't be enough survivor players. Toss aside your survivor bias for one sec to recognize how atrocious gen speeds has gotten in 2v8 I get you want survivors to be the dominant side but this is not how it should be with matches ending so fast
This has nothing to do with Survivor Bias, lol. I dont even play 2v8, so I dont care what is going on there.
But it is a fact that there are too less Survivor players. I mean, you can make the game super hard in 2v8 for Survivor, as I said, I dont play it, I dont care. But then you will come to a point where all Survivors you face are Killer Players who are waiting for their turn while doing play while you wait.
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@ThatRyanB said:
One thing I want to make sure is clear about diminishing returns is that we're not looking at this as a one-and-done change. We're looking at diminishing returns as an ongoing process. This is why it's not being paired with wider perk changes, as I've seen some folks request. When making a broader systems change like this, it's often important to limit the number of simultaneous, linked changes so you can better monitor and understand the impact of the bigger-picture change. Then, equipped with that knowledge, it can help inform whether more granular changes (i.e. perk adjustments) are needed.
We're actively monitoring feedback, so please, play around with diminishing returns and continue to stretch and prod at it. If there are specific things that are causing friction (i.e. perks that feel particularly impacted by this change), let us know and we'll bring it back to the team.
That is the thing I dont understand. You already have data, you are just not using it.
You have the Data that Perk A and Perk B combined are a bit too good, which is the reason why you introduce Diminishing Returns. But you can easily check Perk A and Perk B separately by looking how they perform when only Perk A OR Perk B is used, but not together.
Then you will most likely notice two things:
- Their Pickrate is very low and/or
- Alone they dont really do much
Which then would mean that you can already buff them. Because as I said, you have the Data. But in general, since development is usually done in snail pace (except if there are complaints, then you can suddenly revert or change things without waiting for actual data or feedback, because then suddenly the loud people are enough…), we are probably looking at a ton of destroyed builds for many years before some garbage Perks get a slight Buff.
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2v8 HAS to be survivor-sided. It is quite clear that there are still not enough Survivors playing the mode, simply because the gameplay for Survivor is the same as before. Killer has a new experience with playing with a friend, but thats about it. If you start to increase the time you have to spend on Gens, you will just move more Survivors away from 2v8, which then makes it harder for Killers to find games. I mean, sure, there is play while you wait, but I think most people who queue for Killer rather endure playing a few Survivor games to get into a Killer game than actually wanting to play those Survivor games.
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@vol4r said:
I've been wanting this since Lara introduction.
I like the character, I bought some skins but the talking just doesn't work for me.
Yeah, Lara is one of the prime examples for me why I dont like voicelines. I just think they were done really poorly. E.g. her voiceline when she gets picked up sounds more like an annoyed "put me down" like my sister would say when I would pick her up, but not like someone who is just picked up by a murderous Killer who will carry you to a Meathook.
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Crazy to think that you really said that the game was more fun for Killer in the first 3 years of the game.
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@Elan said:
Revealed Springtrap now gets TR back for 10s but no longer shows aura. Then he gets permanent stealth back.
When Springtrap is not revealed his axe can't be removed, he moves at base speed when wielding axe, gets stun immunity and any generator he damages loses half it's progress.
So according to your idea, someone has to reveal him every 10 seconds?
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@jayoshi said:
legion wasn’t fun to go against as survivor so you removed it. On demand sprint burst is not fun for killer - when is that getting removed?
The problem is more that Legions Power just does not work with 2v8. Legions Power is built around getting fast injuries, but having to be a M1-Killer to get downs (aside from the rare occasions where you get 5 Frenzy Hits). But if you add another Killer who then gets to down the Survivors who got injured by an easy first Hit does not work.
They honestly should have never added Legion in 2v8 in the first place.
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@OmegaXII said:
Because Fast Track PERMANENTLY speeds up Survivor's Objective by doing NOTHING.
This is a serious problem because the faster the Gens, the higher the chance you escape. So bring Fast Track = More Escape.
All those perks you mentioned do not speed up your progress to win the game, that's why they're fine.
PS: Seriously, I can't imagine anyone with decent hours actually defend Fast Track.
And Deadlock permanently slows down Gen Progression by doing nothing. And this is fine?
I guess someone who is proud of having chases which "only" last 90 seconds should know that…
@Topic:
We even have Basekit mechanics which reward failing. Bloodlust. Just get run around an unsafe Pallet, even if you miss a few times, after you reach Bloodlust 2 you will be guaranteed to get a Hit.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075508#Comment_4075508
Yes, they should have. But they didn't, hence why I say that what we have here now on Live is not good.
Seriously questioning why when a killer main says that a survivor perk got overnerfed, ya'll still want to argue? I'm literally on your side here.You are certainly not on my side. I dont care about Fast Track in the slightest, the Perk was not good enough to be used for me and it certainly isnt now. Fast Track could instantly kill the Survivor when they hit a Great Skill Check and I would not care.
What I care about is that the complaints (which you were also part of) came once again before properly testing changes. And as I said, this is the fourth time it happened that it is followed by a kneejerk reaction from BHVR. So unless you stop participating in mindless mass complaints, I dont really care if you said before that it was too strong or are now saying it is too weak, you are part of the problem.
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@Mrpugalug916 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075499#Comment_4075499
Not the point. They can like AOT and not trapper but still buy it because this community is full of whales that buy all FOMO cosmetics man
But is it bad if they like the Franchise and buy something from it? Obviously Trapper is not a good Killer, but I dont think many people expect the entry level Killer to be one of the best.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075504#Comment_4075504
They made further nerfs to the perk AFTER the PTB. That's what this thread is about. There is a difference between not pushing changes from the PTB to live as was done in the past, and what was done here, which is further untested nerfs on top of the PTB changes.
I AND MOST KILLER MAINS i KNOW LIKED THE PERK ON THE RECENT PTB. IT WAS GREAT. THIS PERK THAT WENT LIVE IS NOT THE SAME.Using Capslock does not change the fact that the PTB-Version of the Perk was never supposed to be on Live. When the PTB went online they already said that this is not the final version.
So any feedback at this point was not really meaningful.
They should have just waited longer and then put it on the next PTB (with the actual changes and not a placeholder), if there would be still complaints about a Perk which was not even that good. But complaining that they butchered a Perk while doing mass complaints to get the Perk nerfed is quite strange. (Yeah, yeah, you did not want this version, I understood. Doesnt change the fact that you participating in those mass complaints resulted in this outcome)
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075495#Comment_4075495
When things are broken, they need to be called out. Fast Track was broken. But, BHVR tested some changes on the PTB…. then when those changes were liked…. they pushed live something completely different. Trust me, if this version had been on the PTB I and every other killer main in my friend circle would have told them NOT to push this live.
I mean, what is on the PTB is mostly irrelevant anyway, since they dont have much time to do changes anyway.
And honestly, having Fast Track on the PTB was nonsense anyway if it was already clear that the PTB-version will not come to Live.
However, you people can chill a bit instead of calling things broken Day 1 after release. It is not like BHVR had any significant data on the PTB change (despite them claiming they have), because the Perk was overused because it was changed. You did not even get a realistic picture of the Perk, because BHVR is so quick with their kneejerk reactions based on Killer complaints that what you see in this "Feedback" is nothing more than a bunch of people complaining instead of shutting the ######### up and waiting until things have settled a bit.
This is now the fourth time it has happened and since you keep doing this, there will be no other result, lol.
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I guess people buy Cosmetics for Killers they like. I dont see anyone buying a Cosmetic for a Killer they will not play or dont like to play.
So not sure what the purpose of this Thread is.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075465#Comment_4075465
No, I am a P100 Pig Main and this is NOT what I wanted. What was on PTB was fair. Not OP, but still useful. But the change from it being when a survivor is unhooked to when you personally unhook the survivor? That absolutely guts the perk. Spend 30 seconds running across the map to get the unhook (if you are not in a SWF good luck someone else not beating you to it) just to save 10 seconds on a generator? Wothless. I say again, this is NOT what most of us wanted.
Sure there are likely killer mains out there that want survivors to just come on perkless and stand there and not touch generators, but most of us just want a fair game.but most of us just want a fair game.
Then maybe dont do mass complaints for once and wait until things are settled before you force BHVR to do bad kneejerk reactions.
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@The_Count said:
It's even better than what we got in PTB.
Thanks guys. Rewarding ALL SURVS for their failure (losing a chase) with that amount of perma gen progress was nuts.
I'm not being ironic BTW.This would be true if the number would be bigger. But 5% per Unhook is just too low. I mean, how often do you realistically unhook someone in the match? 2 times? Maybe 3? And this is a full Perk Slot, which is not that much better than a BNP, which is an Add On and therefore way less investment.
You are probably better off running Dramaturgy hoping for a BNP.
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@VilerOfCool said:
The only way this would be acceptable is if several perks got buffed in an actually meaningful way so that you don't need to stack. Cuz like 5% haste SOMETIMES isn't really that good on it's own. It can be good and get hits that you wouldn't have gotten, but even then it just feels so small.
Also diminishing returns feels a bit too HARSH, I guess. 100%, to 50%, to 25% feels like too much. But I haven't tried it myself.The only way this would be acceptable is if several perks got buffed in an actually meaningful way so that you don't need to stack.
Yes, but the there are two problems here:
First Diminishing Returns basically set a cap on how much certain Perks can be buffed. For example Power of Two (5%) and Bloodpact (7%) were used together. So apparently 12% Haste was too much, now it would be 9,5% Haste. However, you cannot really buff those Perks much, because if you stack them again you might end up at 12% again. Hard caps would have been better, this would allow individiually strong Perks without the fear of them getting too strong. (Even tho this example is outdated, since it only really worked on Midwich and you cannot get there reliably anymore)
Hope is another example, at 5% the Perk is not really used, at 7% it was used. And 7% was a justified value for a Perk you only get when you survive until Endgame. But I doubt that it will be buffed, since it was not stacked with other Perks anymore.
And the second problem is that the Devs did not buff any of the Perks which are affected by Diminishing Returns. We know that those are mainly Perks which are not worth taking alone so the only data the Devs will get is "People are not using this Perk anymore"… Which was already clear before. They should have buffed many Perks which are affected by Diminishing Returns just to see if they are fine now, still too good or still too weak. But just slapping Diminishing Returns on and do nothing else is the wrong move.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075465#Comment_4075465
Classic.
The second a new survivor perk makes it into the meta, it is complained about until an overnerf happens and the perk gets sent to oblivion. And I'm not saying Fast Track didn't need changes, but it is tiring to see the same thing happening over and over again.
DBD was shaped by the original survivor meta and those perks are the only ones allowed to be decent. Nothing else can join them without backlash.
Yeah. I tested Fast Track and for me it was worse than any of the regular Perks I run. I just think it is a shame that we have a Survivor Meta from 2018 or so, simply because newer Perks or changed Perks are either not good or when they become better it gets complained about them.
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This is what Killers wanted, an overnerf. And this is what happened. So where is the issue now?
I mean, BHVR even did "a period of observation and assessment" in their own words. They forgot a "short" or "too short" in front of it, but this is what you get if you complain just enough. A Perk which was somewhat decent is now useless again, because people could not wait with their complaints until new toy syndrome wears off and BHVR listens to the loud parts of the community, like always.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Chat isnt the only thing oddly censored. We havent had actual underwear under skirts since the game's first skirt cosmetic lol just painted on black stuff. Yet ace gets a speedo. Meanwhile several licenses in the game come from movies with full nudity, so the players themselves have alredy seen adult stuff but sex appeal in the game is very rare. Along with gore always being toned down when most of the licenses are quite gory.
Eh, if you want sexy lingerie on your characters, play a different game. I think it is fine if they do underwear this way.
Gore is mainly toned down because otherwise it would be difficult to advertise the game in certain countries. And to be honest, I personally think that even the more gory Moris look rather goofy and cringe instead of actually cool.
@Topic:
That people playing this game are supposed to be adults (if anything, most are only on paper) should not be a justification for a looser chat filter. Someone can be well above 18 and still be triggered by certain words, so it is good that they are censored. E.g. you can throw any slur at me and I dont care, but this does not mean that someone else might not have a big issue with being called the F-Slur or something similar. Since you never know what someone experienced to be affected by certain words.
However, I think the Chat Filter should be optional. It should be activated by default, but people should be able to opt-out of it. Simply because I think it is pretty silly how much it censors (since it does not only censor problematic words) and I would rather read a slur here and there than someone telling me the most normal thing in chat which then gets censored for no reason.
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@cogsturning said:
These are mostly crap but more than half are on licensed characters, so less people will have them if they don't check the Shrine regularly. Many are recent too, and a lot of people are pretty secure in their perk choices.
Many are recent too, and a lot of people are pretty secure in their perk choices.
Exactly. This is the problem with Survivors not really getting new good Perks because they either have stupid activation conditions and/or are just too weak. So whenever a new Survivor is released, the question is "Is one of those Perks better than one of the Perks I run since 2018?"… And the answer is almost always "No".
Sure, there is the person who just has more fun with a specific Perk, but the bottom 20 are neither fun nor good.
Killers have it better, because they either get actual useful Perks or at least useful with specific Builds or on specific Killers (Vecna even has 3 Perks which see use: Turn Back the Clock: #17, Secret Project #48, Hive Mind #62, all are in the top half with Turn Back the Clock even in the Top 20).
Granted, being able to be used by specific Killers is an advantage and makes it easier for a Killer Perk to see use.