AsherFrost
AsherFrost
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2075010#Comment_2075010
But I'm not suggesting it. I'm affirming it. That's the reason solo queue is unplayable and will continue to decline until the majority of the survivors is basically SWF only. I would like to see the increase of SWF vs solo from the beginning of the game to now. I wanna bet money solo queue has been on the decline dramatically. Updates like last one push the playerbase either out of the game or into SWF.
I disagree then. I think when the sbmmr is fully implemented, we will see players teamed with those that match their skill better. I believe that because it was my experience during the 24 hour test they did. All my teammates during that test were good. None were amazing, but then neither am I. They did all know the game and played well, and overall it was one of my best experiences in the solo queue.
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@FattiePoobum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074515#Comment_2074515
Like I have tried to tell the other person and now I have to try and tell you
You dont know that, you are speculating
There has never been an official tournament so how would you know what rules or stipulations there will be?
You like the person are just assuming that's what will happen.
maybe it will, maybe it wont
All other e sports I know have the same rules in their game as well as their tournaments. So why would this be any different.
This is where you are wrong
Take overwatch as an example
The OWL has played many times on a different patch from the regular season comp
They actually played the whole of last years finals on a different patch.
You get that playing a different patch, and playing by completely different rules aren't the same thing, right? If one team in the OWL decided their best shot at winning was keeping the other teams' supports out of the match, and effectively tunneled them every time they could, nobody would stop the match and call foul. Yes they played with the older patch, so that the abilities of each character matched the practice each league team put in, they didn't change the rules in any fundamental way.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074970#Comment_2074970
So basically that translates into, you need no skill to kill 99,99% of the survivors in this game. Yeah, I agree.
There I would disagree. I don't believe that 99% of the player base are unskilled, as you seem to suggest. Probably closer to like 20%, which is more in line with every other multiplayer game.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074959#Comment_2074959
Would you say it takes skill to play killer in this game?
Against skilled Survivors, yes. Like every multiplayer game the amount of skill required varies by the skill level of your opponents in the match.
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@Oreo7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074954#Comment_2074954
Right? Thank you! They assumed I haven't played killer bc I find camping a strategy. I do play killer, not very often, but I try not to camp or tunnel bc I know how it feels and my killer stays at grey ranks bc I dont play often. I don't want to deter new people from playing the game, you know?
Absolutely.
Honestly while I don't care for being camped, I am beginning to love being tunneled. The chase is the best part of Survivor, imo and much more fun than fixing gens and breaking totems. Even if I am camped I know if my team is decent they'll "punish" the killer by winning the match and escaping.
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074933#Comment_2074933
99,99% of survivors in DBD then. Especially considering how the match making works here and how rank doesnt matter, you have 2 red ranks in a match (and even a toddler can rank up in this game) together with 1 rank 20 and 1 rank 10, versus whatever.
So yes, even a husky could successfully use NOED, for example.
Then the issue is too many unskilled Survivors, not the perk. Balancing around unskilled players does nothing but encourage brain-dead playstyles.
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Unfortunately it is a prevalent thought pattern here. People tend to believe that they are entitled to have a great time every second of the match, but losing isn't fun, so they get upset. Glad to see Survivor mains out there that understand it's just a game and both sides are trying to win :)
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Because they hate NOED. Even if everyone is killed before the gens are done, you'll get complaints if your build included NOED, despite the fact that you beat them without it ever being a factor, and 1 perk slot down.
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@Breque said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073508#Comment_2073508
DS remove now a lot of options that you could do while in chase, you cannot heal yourself with an speed medkit either get your friend up when he is 99% on the ground, if your teammate decide to heal you for 0.01 seconds you loose the ds and you cant do anything about it
If the killer hook you and kick your generator, and them you get unhooked and the killer are already on your ass, you cant even gen tap cuz, hey u are gonna loose your ds
the play that most ######### the killer for tunneling was when 2 guys are hooked, you was one of the guys, and the killer goes for you, if your other teammate are gonna die, you should go to the save if you are probably going down, even if you dont have DS, assuming that this is your 2 hook, this can bassically save the match, this would turn an situation of 1 guy dead/almost dead, and 1 on the hook, to only you on the hook
Resume: DS with good players now remove a lot of options that could save the game while in chase, It has literally no reason to bring an perk that will desactivate in normal situations ( that situations happen once per match and if dont happen in one match it will occour in the next ) DS now is now so usseles that for tunneling some other perks like DH SB Iron will started to be better to a lot better
"if your teammate decide to heal you for 0.01 seconds you loose the ds and you cant do anything about it"
Literally not how the perk works, have you actually been using the new ds, or do you prefer to just complain about it instead?
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074482#Comment_2074482
"Input" Pressing M1 for you equally as hitting a skillcheck.
I'm guessing it takes tremendous amount of effort for you to left click?
So then, you don't actually have an example? Left click is about as hard to press as the spacebar. Of course, to hit the Survivor, I have to catch them first, and that only takes little skill against Survivors who have little skill.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074599#Comment_2074599
I would say a good reason why a lot of those players left is because of the bugs. The game was littered with them. It was so much worse in the bug compartment compared to DBD.
I would probably see at least 1 bug every match, compared to DBD where I could go several without seeing a single one.
I may be biased yes, but I just can't understand why more people played DBD. The gameplay, especially for counselor was so much more engaging then DBD's survivor side.
I love DBD, but sitting on a generator for 80 seconds 5 times just gets boring. I wish there was some other objective. Like searching the map for parts or something.
I absolutely loved Friday's aspect of looking for gas, a battery, and car keys to start the car and escape. Working as a team truly mattered and counselor just felt so engaging and alive (until you were killed lol). Plus, the kills were so much cooler to watch then the boring sacrifice animation I've seen a thousand times with little to no actual gore involved. And there was always the chance to come back as Tommy, so you really had the urge to stay and spectate on the chance you would come back, compared to DBD where you're done no matter what.
The community as well, while no angels, were far less toxic then this community. I've learned to ignore most of it at this point though.
Sorry, was a bit of a rant. 🥴
Pretty much this. F13 made me like the assymetric game genre, but it was buggier than an old mattress behind the no-tell motel. Everything from cars that would drive right through Jason without collision, doors that you could break down and not be able o walk through, and my personal favorite, kill animations that take place after the counselor already escaped.
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How does a worldwide pandemic relate to celebrating Chinese New Year being a "slap in the face"? And, since the pandemic is still ongoing in many countries, how would celebrating Easter not also be a "slap in the face"?
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I love the idea being put forth that something is only a tactic if you win with it. That's a revolutionary thought pattern that will change how literally all of history is seen.
Q: What tactics did the British employ at the battle of Bunker Hill?
A: None, they lost!
Will definitely make those college history courses much easier for those still in school.
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How many of these matches did you see through to the end, given your often repeated statements of the many, many things that make you disconnect from matches early?
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@CustomerService said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073249#Comment_2073249
Fully passive, takes no skill... sounds like most of the strongest killer perks.
I guess skill is only reserved for when you’re playing survivor!
Which Perk is it that automatically downs Survivors without any input from the killer exactly?
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New ds takes thought and planning to be effective. Old ds essentially let you make bad decisions without a care because it protected you. Where before you may have just hopped on a heal or gen, you now have to actually weigh your options, which I feel is more appropriate for a survival game.
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@Nullclines said:
Why is Yun- Jin Lee censored?
Because they went with the lowest cost provider for their chat filter.
Seriously, it's #########' dogshite.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073381#Comment_2073381
BHVR has been aware of how much mediocre players being camped and tunneled and have been asking you to shut up about it since 2016 because its such an integral part of the game that removing it would be like removing flashbangs and smokes from CS:GO or the wall from Street Fighter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr1i_zXOlxw&ab_channel=%E1%85%9A%E1%85%9A
Like this was basically addressed in EVERY Dev diary.
However, just because you lose to something, or you don't like it, or don't feel good about it, doesn't mean its unfair, or needs to leave the game. That is what we in the gaming world call a scrub:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
Basically, by trying to create artificial rules on the game enviroment that limit intricate, dynamic, and interesting behaviors (and yes, tunneling and camping DOES lead to lots of interesting game states, again, its SUPER interesting for the 4 other players in the game and low key interesting for you, the WORST era in the game's history for survivor enjoyment was arguably the slug meta brought about by old Borrowed Time that made defending the hook legitimately impossible, the game became super boring and the playerbase dropped off pretty hard, like the peak playerbase dipped under 18,000 because the game was SO FREAKING BORING), you are A: Making yourself much worse at the game because your convincing yourself that it isn't on you to learn to beat these strategies, and B: Making it so you understand the game less, because you refuse to engage with the logic of these strategies and why they are (sometimes) optimal and exist in the game.
If you pretend killers only camp and tunnel because they are big meanies, you are, in fact, a scrub. Likewise if you refuse to recognize what tunneling and camping add to the game, even if you don't think it is worth it, and the potential costs for removing them, you are a scrub. That isn't me trying to insult you, that is me trying to rescue you from the scrub mindset. You are refusing to understand the game and your opponent, and that is limiting how deeply you can engage with the game, and thus enjoy it.
Because the best part is that tunneling and camping is HIGHLY counterable. It is EXTREMELY punishable behavior. It exists as a PSYCHOLOGICAL strategy. The fact it infuriates you is the 'point' and if you turn it around on the killer and THEY lose THEIR cool, listening to them 'throw a tantrum' is... divine.
This all day and night
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073223#Comment_2073223
First off i don’t think anything that guy said is toxic except slugging but only when the killer slugs all 4 survivors and then leaves them to bleed out without hooking. Also that guy is a known troll so please don’t listen to him. All he does is go on to discussion and get angry at people before trying to blame them for everything he said.
Your post history shows that is a lie, you can get the screenshot deleted (apparently) but your history is there for all to see.
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@alaenyia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072286#Comment_2072286
Because they should know this is unacceptable, if enough people make it clear that this is unacceptable I would assume that eventually changes will be made. Unfortunately, they really just continue to make either killer sided buffs or changes no one wanted or asked for. No one wanted a change to the UI, no one asked for breakable doors all over every map, or Midwich (self-explanatory). So I assume there won't be many positive changes until another game comes out that draws people away from this one. I am patiently waiting for a comparable option, but there aren't many viable competitors currently.
It's unacceptable to you.
You don't decide the rules, the devs do, they have stated it isn't unacceptable. Should I report Survivors for using BNP just because I don't like it?
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@Taiga said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073264#Comment_2073264
For the little it does now it really shouldn’t require a skill check anymore just in order to not get tunneled. The original DS was added with a skill check because it was a very powerful perk that could be used in many ways and not just as a anti tunnel perk. I also don’t really agree with what you said about noed, since downing someone with noed takes probably as much skill as opening the exit gate as a survivor, if not even less.
That all depends on the Survivor
Properly executed DS gives you 20-30 seconds before the killer can catch up, a health state, and saves you from the hook. That's quite a bit of an advantage to gain back.
As far as NOED, again, depends on the Survivor. If they freeze up then sure, it's pretty easy, if they have any skill at looping it will take effort and skill to beat.
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@Taiga said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073249#Comment_2073249
Does noed take skill? :)
Absolutely. The Survivors don't just drop dead the moment it activates, the killer still has to find and catch them. It makes it a bit easier, but still takes skill and effort. Also it can be removed by Survivors before it even activates, which is not true of any Survivor perk
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So you want it to be a fully passive perk that takes absolutely no skill, even the small amount needed to hit a skill check in this game?
I don't think it needs that.
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I currently run
Inner Strength, Decisive Strike, Kindred and WGLF. I don't run spine chill, honestly my weakness is definitely stealth killers, but I am worried if I run Spine Chill I'd come to depend on it too much, and also I just don't want to drop anything from my build to run it.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073195#Comment_2073195
It doesn't matter if it's considered throwing the game or not. Seeking out a survivor seconds (literally) after they have been unhooked is still deemed as tunneling. Especially if like I said, they walk past by someone and don't even bother.
It's a clear indicator that they have one purpose, to tunnel.
Ok, so they tunneled. If your teammates are even half decent that tunneling will cost him the match. Then your team wins.
So he's punished for his tactics in the only really valid way there is in a game, by losing the game.
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@codebibi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073157#Comment_2073157
that is true that rank is meaningless. i've been camped and tunneled by purple and red rank all night by players playing like rank 20 before posting messages so i agree with that .
So by now you should have worked out the fairly straightforward counterplay to both situations, if not please search this forum, where those suggestions can be found in abundance.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073157#Comment_2073157
So is it fair that the other 3 survivors also depip because they are not allowed to get their benevolent emblem or evader emblem since the killer refuses to interact with them? The pip/rank system needs to be reworked or camping/tunneling needs to go and personally I don’t care which one happens but one needs to.
Absolutely, and as I already said in an earlier reply to you, the pip/rank system is already being overhauled with the new matchmaking system. So instead of de-pipping, they can just be matched with other players who don't understand what counterplay is. It's win-win
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@codebibi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073105#Comment_2073105
do you think it is fair for survivors to play with green or yellow rank on their team because they loose 3 or 4 rank after being camp and tunneled more than 10 game in a row ?
Absolutely. There are lots of in game counters to both, if the Survivors can't figure them out after 10 straight matches that's on them. Also rank is meaningless, it's more a sign of how often you play, not how well you play
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072886#Comment_2072886
Tapping a gen does not indicate you're not being tunneled. Being slugged on the ground until DS runs out does not indicate you're not being tunneled. Conversely, jumping into a locker does not indicate that you are being tunneled.
They're trying to narrow down its activation to only activate when you're being tunneled off of the hook, but they used the wrong indicators and didn't fix the plethora of other issues it had.
Tapping a gen indicates you have higher priorities than running from the killer, which you should be focused on if you are actually being tunneled.
Being Slugged and timed is the counterplay for ds, no more, no less. I understand you may not believe ds should have counterplay, but literally every perk does. The counter to that counter is jumping into a locker where you can't be slugged, which is why ds stays up.
Tunneling, despite what you may believe, isn't inherently wrong, toxic, bad, or whatever other synonym you want to use. It's a tactic that against good players rarely works in the killers favor, and against bad players almost always wins. Tunneling is a mechanic in the game intentionally, and unlike camping, you don't lose points for it, which shows that it isn't meant to be discouraged by the game itself, but only by players who counter the gameplay.
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@Slickstyles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072976#Comment_2072976
If other people have the time to fully heal you, you aren't being tunneled. Therefore, DS should be deactivated if it's a strictly anti-tunnel perk. You're juggling between the perk deactivating through personal contribution or being an antitunneling perk. I don't have to try harder than I want to lol. I don't know how people get off by telling people this rather than just having a civil conversation.
Pretty sure they left it alone if someone else heals you as a way to ensure troll Survivors don't "tap" a teammate to remove ds on them while they still need it. As far as full health, it's going to take a bit to find someone and get fully healed by them, likely close to if not over 60 seconds from when you got off hook, so I'm ok with it staying.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072711#Comment_2072711
You can't tunnel a survivor on the hook. So you might as well go do something else. If you're at work, and your computer is busy updating something, you might as well go through your inbox or something instead of sitting there and waiting for it to finish. Now, the moment that survivor is unhooked, or the moment you get better WiFi, you can go back to tunneling the ever-loving hell out of them.
And after the second time they've been hooked, if they don't see the pattern, it's on them.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072698#Comment_2072698
They clearly do. You again, you don't just see 4 man SWFs with keys, DS/DH/BT/Iron Will, you only see them occasionally. And the reason you see them occasionally is because they are considered "toxic" and "unfun," and since I can pull out the stridor/NOED/Knockout/Devour Hope Spirit with yamuyoke amulet and mother daughter ring at any time, or the facecamping Bubba. Again, there's a subtle agreement that we all want to have fun, and that means considering the fact that the other side could be infinitely more toxic than they are right now. Toxicity begets toxicity.
And it is perfectly right and just for survivors to complain about you getting 4ks, since all that matters is the pursuit of wins. Their goal is to win, and so you can't criticize them for wanting to win. Their win is your loss, meaning that all toxicity is deserved.
(Note the sarcasm).
Honestly the reason you see them occasionally is more likely the difficulty in getting 4 people together to play the game as a team who all have the best possible loadout. Toxicity doesn't have much to do with it.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072638#Comment_2072638
Getting tunneled off hook is one specific occurrence of tunneling. If the killer is playing at maximum efficiency (which means maximum tunneling), they won't patrol your hook. They'll go harass another survivor, but the moment you are unhooked the will prioritize you. If the survivors are playing well and are spread apart, the recently unhooked survivor will be unaware that the killer is coming straight back, and probably do something to contribute to the game (like an objective). Then, the killer comes back, downs the recently hooked survivor, and DS is gone. If they just sat around, anticipating that this would happen, they get slugged for the remainder of their DS. If they have unbreakable, they use their one token, and don't get to use DS.
The cycle of unfun gameplay for both sides continues (nobody likes to be slugged, and nobody likes slugging), the end.
So to you tunneling means when the killer also goes after other Survivors?
Starting to think the perk isn't the problem here
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@onemind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072565#Comment_2072565
He can be fun but how long is that going to last when every game you get 1 or 2 kills and a entity displeased
Guess I'll find out for myself this weekend :)
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072605#Comment_2072605
Right, and that second chance is only applicable when you're being tunneled off of the hook, if you don't get slugged, and as long as your chase lasts shorter than 60 seconds. That's very much situational, and still ripe for its old modes of counterplay. As annoying as being tunneled off of hook is, it's pretty rare, and it's a heavy burden to require one perk for one out of a million possibilities.
And then there's the whole reason I started this thread, being that DS was not consistent with its description. Getting hooked once and jumping into a locker is not the "ultimate attempt to escape."
Yeah, it works if you are being tunneled off hook. That's what tunneling is. It lasts 60 seconds. That's a lot of time in this game. If you are chasing a survivor for 60 seconds and a single gen doesn't pop, much less 2 or 3, then the Survivor team is probably following you around.
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I would honestly prefer they completely rework and rename self-care, keep the boost to healing items (if not raise it), remove the ability to heal yourself (hence rename) and call it a day. As it stands the perk is only useful for identifying newbies.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072580#Comment_2072580
Assumptive today, are we.
There's a difference between saying "Give survivors 24/7 infinite mettle of man lol gg ez get good" and "DS doesn't address tunneling." Quite a big one. Least among those differences is that nobody is asking for complete immunity. DS is supposed to be a second chance, and tunneling is an unhealthy part of the game that should probably get addressed, despite how rare it is. That's all I'm saying. I don't know how you take that and see "immunity," but I would see an optometrist for that.
It currently gives you a second chance.
Free health state, damn near half a minute to find a way out. That's by definition a second chance. Instead of losing 4 chases to die, you have to lose 5. That's a second chance perk if ever there was one.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072555#Comment_2072555
Not necessarily, it doesn't address and prevent tunneling. It's just a slap on the wrist of the killer in case they hard-tunnel you, but won't block them from tunneling.
There are some things that no amount of "get good" can do. No amount of mechanical precision will prevent the killer from tunneling you or camping you because you have no agency in that regard. If they tunnel you, they'll eventually camp you out (god forbid it's a Bubba). These are things that no amount of "the skill you are bringing" can fix. Old Brand New Parts? 6 blink Nurse with 50 million macros can't fix that. Old DS? Tier 500 NOED can't fix that. Ironworks infinite? No amount of stridor Spirit can fix that. No amount of brilliant looping will fix getting camped (especially since you can't loop while impaled on a hook).
So then, you want immunity, nothing less will work for you. Just say so. You want to completely prevent tunneling? I can do that easy, no more 3 hook states, we do it F13 style and you die as soon as you're on the first hook. Voila, no more tunneling.
Every game with multiple "lives" has some form of tunneling. Only in DbD is it so completely misunderstood and complained about.
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@valvarez4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072539#Comment_2072539
yesterday one person, probably a surv ask for don't remove DS if you tap a gen, and he received a lot of complaints and negative comments. And you have comments asking for nerfing press W or nerfing tapping, and they all are so well welcome. Today someone ask for a 5th perk slot giving survs a totem counter. If you don't think this is a killer forum I don't know what to say. This is a 90-99% killers forum
So your evidence is that people don't agree with opinions you do. You have no real data, you've just decided everyone who disagrees with you is a killer main. I disagreed with both of those suggestions, so I must be a killer main, right? But I also disagreed with giving killers a 5th perk slot to deal with swf, and disagreed with removing Dead Hard so by your logic that must make me a survivor main... Oh no, logic fail.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072155#Comment_2072155
I'm surprised this opinion is so uncommon on the forum. I 100% agree. It's inefficient and sometimes even counterproductive to make sweeping balance changes based on PTB feedback. I'd much rather they take that feedback into consideration and address any glaring issues before launch, then make sensible improvements once they have a chance to see how the killer is performing in the wild.
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I have not played Trickster yet myself (still saving up shards), but my impression from playing against him is that he's very map dependent, but not powerless. He's actually pretty solid on maps with a large percentage of loops he can throw over. He's even stronger than Huntress in those loops, as the sheer amount of blades he has means he has a huge margin for error and will almost certainly land enough blades to do damage (especially given that he has Main Event). Against Trickster, if the survivor is unable to use the injured speed boost to get to a tile with higher walls, they're dead. Against Huntress you could probably even stay at that tile and dodge unless the Huntress is really good.
His relative stealth is another advantage over Huntress. Especially with M&A he can punish people repairing unsafe gens pretty well, whereas she has the lullaby to contend with. It's probably easier to land eight "melee knives" than a melee hatchet as huntress too; the fact that missing knives isn't punishing in the slightest does tilt the engagement in his favor, and like Huntress or Plague he can follow that up with a quick M1 for fast downs.
That said, though, if you're on a map with lots of loops that he can't throw over, he's in trouble. That map-dependent-ness is similar to Huntress too, but his is even more extreme because Huntress can definitely handle loops that can't be thrown over better than he can. At least she has the 50/50 at pallets where she can either swing through or pull back to throw her hatchet in anticipation of a pallet drop. If Trickster pulls back to throw knives and the survivor drops the pallet he still won't be able to land enough knives to do damage. Without that possibility for a 50/50 he's at a huge disadvantage in that situation, especially at 110% speed. I don't think there's a worse killer at loops like that.
As far as I know he can't charge up Main Event and then save it for later, though, which is a shame - that way he could at least be opportunistic to ratchet up pressure. It'd also be cool if he could ricochet knives in his base kit. That way he might be able to make his own sorts of 50/50s if he's good; like, let's say you pull back and start throwing knives as a survivor is dropping a pallet. You might only land a few knives right away before the survivor breaks line of sight, but if you could ricochet knives you could land additional hits when they're around the corner. It also just feels like it would raise his skill ceiling, which is great.
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As is he's still fun to play against, he looks fun to play as, anyway, and he's alright on some maps. Plus, until MMR is settled and performing well, matchmaking is probably going to be a bigger factor in whether you win with him than how strong he is. So @Moxie, while I'm surprised to hear that, even a few month delay before changes doesn't seem like it'll be the end of the world, assuming they're prioritizing changes that will improve the game more. If Trickster is performing extremely and unreasonably poorly on the aggregate, though, I wouldn't be surprised if they re-prioritize making changes.
I'm going to be trying him out this weekend when I get back home. I guess people are impatient and/or don't remember the first reactions to spirit, deathslinger and nurse. Sometimes a killer seems weak until people learn how to play him. Sometimes the killer is weak and time is needed to find the best way to fix him without overcorrecting. Either way, a few weeks, even 2 months of watching and gathering information seems fair. Hell, Shammies in WoW destroyed battlegrounds for years before that got fixed. Watching Ohmwrecker play him, he seems like a lot of fun.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072459#Comment_2072459
I was referring more to the survivor aspect of it. The 5 second stun might as well be non-existent, as it's only there to give the survivor a head start (we all remember when enduring affected DS). Beyond that 5 second stun, it's a killer grasp escape, like a flashlight save. The blinding and stun are a minor hindrance compared to the fact that the survivor is free from the killer and able to live again.
Survivors move at 4.0 m/s, so they make 16 meters in that 4 seconds (because falling from a killer's shoulder causes tends to knock the wind out of you). Killers move at 4.6 m/s if you're playing the good ones. Using 4x+16=4.6x, It'll be about 26 seconds until the killer catches up to you again. Sounds great until you realize that holding w is a very inefficient way to loop, and depending on how good you are at looping, that can be a few seconds to a minute or two. Either way, that opportunity was afforded by the killer grasp escape. It's not going to discourage tunneling, but it'll give you that ticket to try again.
DS was never "abusable," it was just really, really strong. To abuse something implies you're using it in a way it wasn't intended. The perk description of DS was literally, "if the killer picks you up than you can stab them and get away for free lol." Even lockers weren't really "abuse." It was a creative way to force a grab, but nothing like tractor totems or survivor dribbling.
So it takes you off the killer, gives you back a health state and gives you a reasonable head start to make it to a loop or teammate, even against the fastest killers.
That certainly all sounds like things that help you escape being tunneled. Aside from just giving you immunity to being hooked twice in a row, what else could they do? At some point you have to be responsible for the skill you are bringing, and not expect the perk to do all the work for you.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072478#Comment_2072478
The issue is not so much the killer forcibly taking a survivor out of the game, it’s the fact that all 4 survivors get their ranks and pips screwed over because the killer doesn’t want to interact with any of the except the guy he is camping/tunneling. Camping and tunneling would probably not be cared about nearly as much if the ranking/pip system was reworked but the devs don’t want to see to do that either.
They literally are doing that though, reworking the pip/rank system is part of the sbmmr changes. It's been mentioned several times by devs and mods.
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@valvarez4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072103#Comment_2072103
Lol. Do you really think this forum is not killer sided? Review the comments and votes and you'll see it's probably 1/10 survs and 9/10 killers or higher.
I mean, if you define a killer main as anyone who disagrees with your opinion, then yeah, it will look a lot higher. If you go by the very large amount of people who play both sides however, a different picture emerges.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2072286#Comment_2072286
I do the same thing because these strategies are insanely toxic and unfun and deserve to be removed. Maybe if the devs see all these people being reported for this they will actually do something about tunneling and camping
They are far more likely to punish the person making all the false reports, but that's on you.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2068936#Comment_2068936
Where is the skill in tunneling?
In winning 4 chases with the Survivor. Same as the skill in hooking any Survivor.
@Nicotinhaltig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2068308#Comment_2068308
A situation I just had: Was hooked beside a generator that was regressing. My teammate rescues me. The killer is really close, but I go ahead and tap the generator before immediately running away. The killer (obviously tunneling) catches me 5 seconds later, but DS is gone because I touched the generator for like 1 second. I do think DS needed some kind of rework. But the current state its in is just kinda frustrating.
Why couldn't your teammate tap the gen before rescuing you? You knew the killer was close, you could have waited, used ds when he grabbed you again, and tapped the gen while he was stunned. 2 options that wouldn't have made you lose ds before you needed it.
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@alaenyia said:
I submit reports all the time about this and am convinced no one read them. So it is probably just for my own peace of mind. But yea, Camping and Tunneling are a real problem in this game. There should be real consequences to a killer who insists on ruining people's games with these cheap and lazy tactics. I think BT should be base kit for all survivors to discourage tunnels. I find camping to be a problem to a slightly lesser degree because this at least has some counter to it in the form of doing gens and objectives while the killer dinks around with one person on a hook. It is sad for the person who didn't get to play and depipped because the killer decided he didn't really want to bother playing and would rather stand next to the hooked guy. But the rest of the team
So you repeatedly report people for behavior the mods and devs have repeatedly stated isn't reportable behavior? Why do you want to waste the time of the employees of BHVR?
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@Moxie said:
Because a certain dev said in a stream lately they will not even be looking at Trickster for 2 months.
Get comfy.
Imagine wanting to have time to wait and see where improvements would do the most good, instead of just randomly buffing ######### in the hopes it works.
I mean, they could have kept him in the ptb 2 months longer, and he would come out perfectly optimized... For PC. Then in 2 months or so they'd still have to adjust for consoles.
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@valvarez4 said:
Do you know this is a killer forum? So no, it's not a problem. But gen tapping yes, of course, it's a massive problem for killers
Do you know it really isn't? I mean, I understand it's easier to pretend everyone who disagrees with you is just biased, but the data doesn't bear it out.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/239138/how-many-of-you-play-both-sides#latest
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2069773#Comment_2069773
Just because the game has been like this for a while doesn't mean there is a problem. Decisive Strike was in the game for a while and it was a problem for years.
***Camping is a problem because it allows one player to completely stop another player from being able to play the game. A solo player has absolutely nothing they can do against camping.
One of the ways you could fix camping is to stop hook progress if the killer is not in a chase and is within 32 meters of the hook, this would be disabled during end game collapse. This would keep survivors from abusing this and it would force killers to find other survivors instead of standing in front of a survivor all match.
This fix would be good for survivors for obvious reasons and it would actually be good for killers because it would encourage them to stop using camping as a crutch to prop up bad game play.
You keep suggesting this, and never reply when people point out that 32 meters is 1/4th of the map on some maps. It's way too large an area. If you want to encourage slugging, this will do it, because if my choices are hooking someone and denying myself 1/4th of the map, or slugging them and keeping watch on the slug until they bleed out, it's option b every time. And that's coming from someone who doesn't even slug to find the hatch, I never let Survivors bleed out unless I can't find them, but I sure would the moment this change was implemented.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2071976#Comment_2071976
Because it's not an immunity perk. DS doesn't make you immune to tunneling. The rest of it is on you to waste the tunneling killer's time before and after the DS.
At least someone finally admitted it.
He doesn't want a perk that will help you get away from being tunneled, he wants something to give out complete immunity at the push if a button. It's not going to happen.