Apple2o
Apple2o
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Then it would be called corrupt intervention.
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Don't even bother going for grabs on dedicated servers. It's not worth being robbed out of a hit. I complained about this the day they came out but it's clear by now it's not going to be fixed.
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@Pulsar said:
I have zero wait time for Killer and about 10 minutes for Survivor at Rank 1 NA.
It sounds like you, from your post, play at a sub rank 10 level. The fact that Killers slug everyone before hooking any sounds like a very low rank strat, additionally, it is hilarious that no one managed to loop long enough to pick someone else up.
Slugging is a low level strat? omegalul
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918761#Comment_918761
Link your steam I'll take a look.
That's all you gonna get from me. In before you jump on the fact that rank reset was today.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918753#Comment_918753
The only way the scenario you are describing is happening consistently is if you are playing against extremely bad survivors at low ranks. That scenario is not happening against even semi decent players.
Except I do it all the time at rank 1, and even posted a video of me doing it at rank 1. So whatever, i'm not arguing about it anymore.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918686#Comment_918686
"If you can't see the value in MYC for tunneling I don't know what to say."
Tunneling is going after the same guy repeatedly. MYC quite LITERALLY only affects the guy that is rescuing. It's ENTIRE purpose is to encourage you to NOT tunnel. I don't think you understand what the perk actually does. It has zero effect on the person that was saved.
If you are coming back to the hook after being at least 32m away and hitting BOTH people then you are playing against complete potatoes at low ranks. That scenario is not happening against even semi competent survivors.
"You must have missed the part where I said this is typically done with movespeed spirit; who returns to the hook from 32m in less than 3 seconds"
We are talking about tunneling in general and you keep referencing one singular killer. That is not what OP's topic was about.
"It's like a hag if someone triggers your traps, you are effectively already back at the hook the second someone is saved."
Or they just crouch save and she gets nothing.
"I don't think its possible to even get out of the basement before a spirit can be at the top of the stairs from 32m away. It is insane for tunneling. If you don't believe me try it yourself."
Why are we still talking about Spirit? This has nothing to do with what the original topic was about. One killer being "insane for tunneling" has nothing to do with the topic at all.
Ok. What is the counter to tunneling? Someone who isn't being tunneled doing gens. MYC lets you get a slug in addition to being able to tunnel the guy who came off the hook on a multitude of killers who can quickly return to the hook.
Then someone has to save the slug, and it's 3 survivors off gens while you tunnel. As opposed to 3 survivors on gens while you tunnel. It is as simple as that. If you get back too late and lose the person you wanted to tunnel, then you have a backup in the MYC target.
I don't know how to put it any clearer than that.
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@Xerge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918155#Comment_918155
I watched a bit, that guy sounds like he really hates survivor mains and their meta perks. Made me chuckle listening to him.
You can't deny the effectiveness of his methods though. I wish I could use him as an example to everyone who keeps saying slugging, camping, and tunneling don't work at rank 1.
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/520750636@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918686#Comment_918686
I understand what you are saying. Not many people take into account the power or camping/tunneling in whatever manner you're using it in. That's why I don't cry about DS if I happen to get greedy and want to go "camp" a hook or unintentionally "tunnel" someone.
It's just common knowledge, but the problem is many people on here seem to want to nit pick only the parts that mostly puts them at a disadvantage.
"Well it was only 50% tunnel but I also saw scratch marks so I went back" Who cares? The perk itself doesn't state "You can only tunnel ___% this much or else the perk won't activate". It is literally taken from Laurie Strode's lore in her stabbing Michael Myers, it is meant to be an offensive/defensive perk.
Watch the last game of that stream. It starts at around 4 hours and 4 minutes in. That is me playing spirit in this manner at rank 1. I was not specifically tunneling though but could have been.
It is super tilting for the survivors. Them remarking with comments like "THIS SHOULD BE BANNABLE"
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917989#Comment_917989
MYC makes the rescuer able to be one shot, not the person being saved. If you are going back to the hook to hit the person rescuing, that is camping, that is not tunneling. Even then, that is a very loose interpretation of camping since you are going at least 32 meters away which most people wouldn't even consider proxy camping.
If you can't see the value in MYC for tunneling I don't know what to say. What else is going to get you totally free slugs while you tunnel someone? You must have missed the part where I said this is typically done with movespeed spirit; who returns to the hook from 32m in less than 3 seconds. It's like a hag if someone triggers your traps, you are effectively already back at the hook the second someone is saved.
I don't think its possible to even get out of the basement before a spirit can be at the top of the stairs from 32m away. It is insane for tunneling. If you don't believe me try it yourself.
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@LemeTheMeme said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918644#Comment_918644
Mega disagree. She definitely can snowball games if survivors don't know when or not to cleanse, but she is really addon, perk, AND map dependant.
I love playing as her lately, but damn, she is so easily countered by basic game sense.
I'm sorry, if you can't get hits as an M1 killer that's not a problem with the killer. She is probably the best M1 killer in the game currently.
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It blows my mind that people consider her weak in any way.
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@LemeTheMeme said:
But, in all honesty, I know you forgot Plague, but she is probably harder than Huntress.
Plague rarely sees her power, and can be easily looped. She's really good at locating survivors, but most of the time when you play Plague, you NEED good map awareness.
Even with the slight chance you do get your power, it's super inaccurate, unless in dead zones. Jungle gyms destroy her power if the survivor knows how to run it.
Plague has gotta be one of if not the most mechanically simple killer in the game. You just barely even splash every survivor once with her power, then she is perma tier 3 myers all game.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918416#Comment_918416
Tried it out and I can see why it appeals to you. I would recommend dropping the Bamboozle. If you lack the confidence then the only way to really learn is to remove it and get that confidence in looping.
Still I spent most of the time stalking and getting instadowns pretty easily. (Didn't realize TrU3Ta1ent made it so easy to stalk now since people expect a hit and run style) Problem was when I could sneak on some survivors I didn't have my power ready. Other than keeping people on there toes and wounded about 80% of the match. I downed with instadowns the first half while the other half I probably woulda been able to if I had my power.
Best mind game GF had with my playstyle is literally let someone run a corner and pop his power letting the survivor guess where you are for a moment while I went back to the other survivor I saw so I can instadown them. Nurses Calling might be better than Bamboozle if you do this as well.
Overall I think I would of done better as Pig, but that's based on my experience with her. I still saw minor flaws in his kit that Pig didn't have while I still wish Pig crouched faster and moved faster while crouched overall. His down time is what kills him for me. If I can only be a stealth killer once in awhile then if I didn't have experience stealthing up to survivors I probably would of been in trouble.
I ran both recovery addons because I honestly couldn't stand him otherwise. He really needs to gain his power back faster. A killer without a power is ridiculous and stupid.
Things I learned in built deer stalker is hilarious when looking for that survivor who crawled off because you saw the last survivor. Also ironworks you can stalk through windows upstairs and watching 4 survivors on a gen panic is unbelievably funny. Also why do they always run to you? Seriously its fantastic.
Bamboozle gives you more value the better the survivors are. It's not needed in most games, but when you run into the survivors that abuse the crap out of the god windows it is worth its weight in gold. I don't like being forced to drop chase just because someone ran to a safe window on the map. All the extra utility it gives in shutting down jungle gyms, shack, etc are a bonus to me.
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@RepliCant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918456#Comment_918456
Wow, look, a comment that does nothing to contribute but offer a glimpse of your stupid petty in which has no real input whatsoever. Useful!
Not sure why ebony's are being ignored along with keys.
I had a game earlier today where I walked to ruin, stalked it as ghostface, got a 4 man exposed into a 4 man slug and the game was literally over in the first minute. My best ghostface game I have ever had.
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@savevatznick said:
Ghostface's stealth is what makes him good since his stalk is only very situationally better than just hitting someone outright from shroud.
Absolutely not. A stalk takes 2.5 seconds when leaning. Even if you perfectly M1 into another M1, that's still going to take longer than a stalk into an M1 instadown. But that's usually not how it pans out, the M1 gives them a ton of distance and enables them to use dead hard, so there's a good chance you will need to chase them through safe pallets if it's the start of the game.
A ghostface instadown into a pop goes gen regression with sloppy butcher is some of the most damage you can do in the shortest amount of time in the game.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918323#Comment_918323
You say that, but I've done incredibly well with that build. It has Slowdown and Situational awareness while letting me see better and hide longer when I know people are around. So you may see it as a waste, but its let's me know where I'm going and what I'm doing.
I think the biggest difference is I can't be bothered to use Ruin at any rank. It limits build variety too much for my taste. While imho a few killers could definitely use ruin normally I would throw on Corrupt Intervention instead because it does what I want 100% more consistently.
I'll be honest I don't waste time doing 60 second chases. If you can't get a pallet or a hit within the first 10 to 15 seconds I would highly advise finding someone else. Especially as a stealth killer.
While since I'm doing killer currently pass me your Ghostface build I'll test it out. Not cause I'm bored or anything. While I'm not the best GF I do agree that the anti heal is a gimmick at best with a good strategy behind it.
I usually do ruin + pop + sloppy + bamboozle. Sometimes I will switch out sloppy or bamboozle for make your choice, but I don't actually feel very confident going into red ranks without bamboozle on M1 killers these days. Too many survivors know all the god windows, and you can still get caught up in nasty chases at shack, cow tree, double window setups, etc without it.
And im saying the chases are ~60 seconds because you get your first free stealth hit, then typically need to get through a dead hard and a few safe pallets before you can actually get the down. Especially if you get a map like the game where there is literally a safe pallet in every room and there's nothing you can do except run the loops.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918259#Comment_918259
I would say RBT waste on average about 45 to 55 seconds from my personal experience. 12 seconds plus Travel time. I included great skill checks into travel time because then we can debate RNG all day, but Travel time is pretty RNG anyways. Addons are meh, but I'll include this picture of some math Peanits did awhile back
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/998/AHBQGUFIWZ3G.jpg
My current favorite build I use is Monitor and Abuse, Whispers, Thrilling Tremors, and Surge. I can play any perk though so i can switch if I get bored. Sometimes I might trade Surge out for Ruin if I see 3 or more toolboxes. The Addons dont really both me I kinda just use whatever anymore. I'm more prone to worse addons like skillcheck ones at lower ranks.
While I like the theory about GF the real issue is his cool down. At certain points of the game your a lot more obvious then Pig could ever be because when you could stealth or instadown you dont have a power. Also most people just use GF as a inferior Pig with the Hit and Run tactic TrU3Ta1ent has developed.
While many still actually stalk if they are skilled at GF. Just because someone can instadown doesn't mean anything if they either can't do it or cant get the opportunity. What if you mark someone and they run you the entire duration? From what I have seen is quite a common occurrence.
As for faster movement it's not a big issue as Pig Players just crouch outside the Heart Beat radius not all over the map unless they are just foolish or memeing.
Like I said it comes to playstyle. Ghostface instadown while more useful than a Ambush Dash has been mostly thrown to the side as a after feature by a lot of people just like it.
Also addon wise. Ghostface needs his to be viable while Pigs are generally bad and she can do the same level of play without them.
On a side note I think Myers is worse then both of these Killers xD
I actually think ghostfaces add-ons are some of the most irrelevant in the game. Even his purples don't take him much further from his base kit. Pigs add-ons are far more deadly, with an extra box + reduced timer or gears being the equivalent to an RNG mori.
And yeah, that build, you are literally wasting 2 perk slots to be a stealth killer. Ghostface doesn't need to use a single one. He can stack chase perks or slowdown perks depending how confident you are in chase. I know ruin + pop will get you a million times more value than monitor and whispers.
So when it comes to pig vs ghostface; you can waste 60 seconds of your time to waste 60 seconds of a survivors time, I don't think that is a good trade. I always stalk when I can as ghostface and think the anti-heal build is a gimmick.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918048#Comment_918048
I think GF is worse personally. It mostly just comes down to how you play though. If I played GF like i would play Pig than i would be severely handicapped by the cool down on his stealth mechanics even with double recovery addons. Yet if I play Pig like I did GF I would still do well while only missing the instadown.
Then again I have a core concept how I play the game and after that I have a playstyle for each killer I play a bit of on a semi regular basis.
Pig pretty much requires a tracking perk if you want to play her as a stealth killer, otherwise you are wasting loads of time crouching around at low speeds for nothing. Ghostface is moving full speed at stealth with a significantly better field of view. Ghostface also gets 1 shots for a successful ambush, pig gets an M1.
The traps are little more than time wasters without multiple rare add-ons. I think being able to end a chase instantly is better than having to go on 40-50 second chases with pig to get that second M1 in exchange for disabling them for like 60 seconds with an RBT. It ends up being roughly the same amount of time "lost" but one you are instantly getting your pop goes to regress a gen.
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@Hag.is.Dtier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917948#Comment_917948
"Hag is super easy", said no one who's put time into Hag.
Yeah mashing left control when someone is getting near a trap and then having your screen automatically pointed to the survivor for an easy lunge attack is rough. Literally the only skillful part of hag is using an extended duration trap and then mindgaming if you are going to take it or not at pallets. Spamming down traps at hooks is pretty braindead easy dude.
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@28_stabs said:
Survivors may play the game, may not play it. As a solo player in the most cases I farm. Getting my 4 WGLF stacks is the top priority to me. I dont like to end with 10k after playing a full match. I may not do generators alone. I will break totems, open chests, heal, do anything but generators, because Prove Thyself in co-op will get me all the Objective bp for doing only 2-3 of them.
I dont say everyone is farming, but judging deaths and rank numbers is meaningless. Survivors view on the game can be completely different from killers view on the game. Killer only count kills.
Also, if you dont see farming perks - they may be trying out something.
Another thing to think about is skill requiremet to play good. Survivors must know a lot more than killer to survive a game. A single mistake can lead to death. You went to the basement without DS and nobody has BT? - Congratulations. You can stay there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bix44C1EzY
Also, I dont say that survivors are harder, Im just saying that deaths can mean many things.
As a survivor you can also never see the killer the whole game and get carried by your team. That will never happen as a killer.
In fact you can play super selfish with the goal of getting the hatch each game and hide all game and just hold M1 on gens. I'd say that playstyle is significantly easier than killer.
Sure chases can be hard, but at the same time, it's the only skillful part of the game for survivors. Everything else is holding M1.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918146#Comment_918146
They loop me so hard I can't even get the one hit needed to down with NOED I am that out classed. I have no business being up against 2000+ hour experienced survivors yet.
There's plenty of mechanics in the game to give killers free hits. Spirit fury + enduring is about as free as they get. Play with your food + nemesis will get you to 130% movespeed for completely unavoidable hits. With the BL nerf, bamboozle now shuts down every infinite in the game. Long term looping doesn't really exist anymore unless you are getting seriously outplayed. I would say the game is now more killer favored than it has ever been.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918100#Comment_918100
Nonsense, in practice it most definitely does not work unless the survivors are inexperienced; though yes if you run a solely dedicated tunneling killer with tunneling focused build I imagine you could, but even then for what, a low blood point 1 or maybe 2k? Still no point in doing it.
It's a waste of time for killer and is generally more work than just playing; and far far less effective.
Uhhh that's not how it goes down. I typically 4k every game, and 3ks are because of hatch of course. Maybe not as much bloodpoints but I have full builds on my favorite killers and don't care about it much.
That build is the peak of tunneling but it's not like you can't get away with it on the M1 killers as well. It's strengths are that you can protect and doctor the nearby gens with pop goes in between phasing back to the hook for 1 shots or tunnels.
Maybe watch some of this guy: https://mixer.com/ProVengeance_
He is who I watched to learn how to play mean. All the other streamers play very nice but this guy has no problems tunneling and camping when it's advantageous to do so.
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@[Deleted User] said:
3 more losses.
Survivors sure don't like actually challenging matches, I'm about one more loss from just uninstalling. I just want to play a game I feel like MAYBE I MIGHT get one person or at least a few hooks.
I've had ZERO HOOKS THE PAST 7 GAMES. Because it keeps putting me against red rank SWF who are way WAY more experienced in this game than I am.
Like what am I supposed to do with this? This isn't a game at this point, it's just unplayable. I'm not even getting any bloodpoints, if they made it so that at least I could get a lot of bloodpoints even on a hard loss somehow, I would still enjoy it, but no can't even have that.
I think this matchmaker really shows the devs inexperience honestly, it's such a blatant problem but they don't seem to care about doing anything about it.
How is that even possible? Slap on some more crutches.
You should be able to AFK with wraith all game and at least get a hook at the end with NOED.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918075#Comment_918075
They will just run to the next pallet, drop it, and repeat and by the time you clear every pallet on the map, the game is over. It's basically killer suicide.
I know I've tried out of frustration- tunneling doesn't work unless the survivors are already kinda bad, if they know what they are doing, tunneling will not work ever. Period.
Yet I do it all the time at rank 1. Same with camping. And people will sit here and argue to death with me that it doesn't work, even if I can provide literally endless examples of it working because it works almost every single game when done properly.
If you are getting looped for that many gens, you need to run more chase perks, simple as that really. The game is about stacking as many slowdown perks as humanely possible while still being able to get downs in a reasonable amount of time.
My favorite, make your choice spirit, camps and tunnels from 32m away.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Tunneling instantly loses you the game, and you often won't get a kill out of it. So okay.
People haven't been complaining about tunneling and camping since this games inception because they don't work. Making the game a 3v1 as fast as possible is probably the most effective strategy a killer has.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917895#Comment_917895
You...you know she sings right?
People know she's coming way before they hear the terror radious.
Her lullaby radius is 45m. If people are moving away from gens when you are 45m away that is a win, because it's really foolish to stop gen work by being in the lullaby radius. Some maps you can probably cover 4+ gens in that 50m.
@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917965#Comment_917965
Nah I want to play the game as I'm sure the survivors would too. I dont need to act like that to win definitely not fun for me or that survivor. If I need to force a free win then I just wasn't capable enough to win anyways and I need to improve my game.
I don't see the point of playing pig unless you are going for RBT kills but that's just me. Ghostface is a far superior stealth killer.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917440#Comment_917440
'Spirit is probably the best tunneler in the game, borderline ignoring DS in the hands of a skilled player. I can go into a match and focus people down 1 by 1, straight through DS/BT, and still win. She could eat all 4 DS's and still be totally fine."
Can we get off the Spirit talk? I am not referring to Spirit whatsoever in what I'm talking about in this conversation. It's also terrible to balance around 1 killer. Old Nurse was godlike and could deal with anything. Does that mean old DS was totally fine because just she could handle it? No, clearly not.
'Make your choice specifically, lets you tunnel incredibly hard on her."
No, make your choice is literally the complete opposite of tunneling. It gives you a reason to target the rescuer instead of the rescued.
Why is your entire post about Spirit? I've said nothing about Spirit at all and Spirit has nothing to do with this posts conversation.
Make your choice is the best tunneling perk in the entire game. It gives you a reason to go straight back to the hook, every time. From there you don't have to pick which target to hit. You can slug the savior, and go back to tunneling; or you can slug the unhooked survivor and then go after the savior.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/112680/difficulty-rating-of-killers-list
Pigs really great against solo to trios. Once you realize her RBT is your Ruin and you drop ruin to make room you can start using combo builds and she becomes incredibly brutal.
Or once you realize that with ruin, if you get an early down you can afford to just crouch walk behind a RBT'd survivor until their head explodes and the game is a practically a free win.
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@Hag.is.Dtier said:
Hag is harder than solo survivor and I play both.
Hag is super easy and probably one of the best killers in the game, her kill rate being a statistical outlier proves this. Lay trap, get a free hit, and she camps harder than nearly anyone else in the game. "Mindgames" at pallets involve slapping down a trap and then just porting to it after you run them into it, or they mindgame themselves.
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@aazimuth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/914844#Comment_914844
Yes, nice game design you guys got here. Maybe your game would be better if you just brought back p2p instead of forcing people to test on your servers that hardly work for over 2 months!
I was about to post a ton of completely BS hits but that video sums it up nicely.
As a killer these days, I ALWAYS swing at pallets and windows now because sometimes dedicated servers will just give me a free easy down. It's bad when it looks like it doesn't hit as the survivor, but when you are the killer and it doesn't even look like a hit it's hilarious.
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@TheRoyalOwl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917687#Comment_917687
Because you have to learn mindgames on most titles. With other killers you learn their ability more than mindgames.
Like nurse you don't need m1 killer mindgames you only need to learn nurse's power, which happens to be more complicated.
M1 killers don't need to mindgame depending on what perks you run. Spirit fury + enduring? Just hold W in chase.
@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917730#Comment_917730
There’s a difference between aim and tracking sound... spirit fundamentally doesn’t do much more than that... and any “mindgames” are so fast to shut down with her speed that you don’t need as great a reaction time to do so.
Huntress takes aim, patience, being in the right place at the right time because she’s slow in order to aim etc. She’s like a nurse that doesn’t get to catch up... Nurse’s downside can be seen as pretty large though compared due to after 1 miss you do have to wait now... but still say huntress is harder... there’s a timing to wind up her hatches etc.
Huntress is really easy to play, a lot can go wrong with her but the hatchets have HUGE hitboxes compared to the projectile and you just need to get it in their general area for it to hit. Toss on like monitor and abuse and you are already up at 12m before you even have to start throwing hatchets at people.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917835#Comment_917835
Relay the fact that it has no real counter to the dev team then.
It's more of the opportunity cost of using a toolbox over another item. I always viewed the toolbox as a very altruistic item because it helps the team much more than yourself.
Instead of a toolbox you could have a near guaranteed free escape with a key, a medkit for multiple selfcares and potentially a syringe, or the flashlight which can be used to save teammates or juke the killer during chase.
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3 socket swivel commodious toolboxes and a key.
Most people who use flashlights are just blinding me at pallets with them which basically does nothing because I am in the pallet kicking animation for 80% of it anyways. And half the people don't even use it with iron will, making it completely useless when injured.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917769#Comment_917769
I'm not saying it's not worth it, it's more of a "not needed." If you can consistently pip or even black pip while in rank one you will stay in red ranks like that.
You can win games running no perks at red ranks if you are good enough, but the games will probably involve copious amounts slugging, tunneling, and camping depending on what killer you are playing.
It buys me a good minute or two usually, and that's all you need from it. It also prevents survivors from stacking on gens with toolboxes and prove thyself, stopping those super early gen pops before you have even found a survivor.
Overall, I don't see any reason to ever take it off. There's nothing that is going to give you more gen regression value for that same slot, except maybe pop but I always use both.
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Nothing will get you more gatekeeper than ruin. Ruin protects your gens at the most critical point of the game, at the start when all 4 survivors are alive, healthy, and potentially doing gens. That alone makes it worth using.
Without it, people spawn directly on top of your generators and can mindlessly hold M1 right from the start of the game.
The survivors I see complaining about ruin are typically running the full 4 crutch perk build anyways.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/917320#Comment_917320
4 DS stuns, yeah. Anyone who plays killer at red ranks would agree with that. I also am not referring to Spirit specifically at all.
Spirit is probably the best tunneler in the game, borderline ignoring DS in the hands of a skilled player. I can go into a match and focus people down 1 by 1, straight through DS/BT, and still win. She could eat all 4 DS's and still be totally fine.
Make your choice specifically, lets you tunnel incredibly hard on her. Just toss on some movespeed add-ons and sit at 32m from the hook, and phase back the second they get unhooked. Depending on the hook, it might actually be impossible for the unhooker to break LOS before you get back.
Then you either get a 1 shot on the savoir, or get the injured person, just depending on who is closest when you come out of phase. Combined with pop goes the weasel you can pressure nearby gens as well while still camping out waiting for an unhook.
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@csandman1977 said:
Deliverance means you have to be a team player and rescue someone first. No team, no deliverance. As for keys, i have my own issue with them but yes they get you out regardless of your team. In this game the key is an insurance policy against your teams failure.
1 safe hook rescue is a relatively trivial task to accomplish in my opinion, as long as you stay relatively immersed at the start of the game (which you should, there is no reason to ever give out a chase to a killer for free). If you combine it with things like spine chill, you should pretty much never be the first one on hook.
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@csandman1977 said:
I play solo. And while highest rank I've made is rank 4, I think it would be impossible for me to singlehandedly complete 5 generators and open a door against even a mediocre killer.
The game isn't set up for a single survivor to complete all the objectives solo. You can do gens and be stealthy, but once you are found if you make a mistake you aren't getting away. Conversely you can run the killer around for 20 minutes but without a team to do gens you aren't escaping.
By design this game is set up as a team game there's no way around that. That's why coordinated teams have such an advantage over most killers.
As I stated previously, perk and item combinations can make you bordeline totally independent of your team as a survivor. Deliverance? You don't need anyone to save you from your first real mistake. Key? You won't bat an eye if your entire team is getting slaughtered.
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@Falkner09 said:
It's now well established that survivor mains can get any killer nerfed just by bitching really hard for about 2 months, and challenges within a week.
Once they learned this, they set their sights on nurse first, then Spirit, then the tome challenges, so now they're targeting Billy and Freddy. It's very transparent.
Omegalul if you think nurse or spirit pre-nerf were fine. Freddy and Billy are statistically some of the highest performing killers in the game. And it's not because someone like Freddy is hard to play......
Rank 1 killer main before you throw shade at me for being a survivor.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/111427/some-killers-need-a-run-button
Three of the killers you mentioned are best at mid to late game. They give up early game pressure for strong mid and late game pressure. The doctor is already getting his changes soon and the clown and bubba are probs getting them in the near future, especially bubba. Not all killers need insane mobility to get map pressure.
Wrong. Every new killer needs either a 1 shot or insane mobility, or both.
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Of course it is still useful.
Is it as useful as an effective 3rd health state? Absolutely not. Toss it in the trash along with head on, because dead hard is the new king.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/904119#Comment_904119
Yeah I know, it's because he can strafe. So you can move in one direction but look in another direction 90 degrees to your side, which allows him to do 90 degree turns. I'm sorry but without this he would be rather bad. That's what makes his chase potential good, but I've attempted to explain how you can still counterplay him in my thread.
For example, you can move and turn your camera seperately as Oni when he is dashing. So I could run in one direction while slowly turning my camera to another direction, up to 90 degrees. But that turning is slow, that's why Oni can only turn this much if he has enough distance he covers while dashing before turning. Once he turned 90 degree for example, he can't turn another 90 degree right away, which means any additional turn you make forces him out of his dash, unless he's already close enough to hit his lunge.
That's why his counterplay can be loop dependent. If you've got multiple objects around you, you can run around them taking multiple sharp turns, and often that means Oni would have to make multiple sharp turns to keep up with you, which is why he is forced out of his dash in those cases. You do have to be very cautious when he has his power active, since it can go very fast. But that's what makes him viable.
Don't forget, if you can outrun a killer for a long time no matter the skill of the killer, the killer is not viable. If there was a 50/50 chance that Oni would not down a survivor during one use of his power, he'd be pretty damn bad, because Oni is extremely weak when he doesn't have his power active.
I think you would get a better understanding of how to counter him if you understand how he works, so playing him yourself or watching others play him to understand how exactly his power works can be really helpful to understand how to counterplay him.
Yeah, his counterplay is humping safe pallets and not getting M1'd. I can only control one of those in solo Q. And depending on the map RNG, there might not even be that many safe pallets. Oni on shelter woods is kind of a joke.
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@Avilgus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/904155#Comment_904155
Why oni can not be better than Myers?
Just be honest with yourself. He was released overpowered so everyone will buy him. He will get nerfed down the line once everyone has already bought him. Same crap with killers like legion.
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@S_Panda said:
You could always try stealthing when he's oni mode. without perks he has 0 tracking beyond normal killers and while dashing he can't turn fast so unless you leave tracks for him to follow he's just running around randomly. If he hooks someone and goes oni that's when you ditch your current location after a few seconds (since it takes 3 seconds by default to oni up and 1 to dash). When he's dashing towards you go around the object you're 3rd personing behind and there you go no chase and he doesn't know you were even there. Rinse and repeat 1-2 times and he's out of oni mode without anyone extra down. If the person on the hook has to eat a hook state, I'd say it's worth it over giving him an extra 1-2 downed players. If you treat him like a regularly loopable killer then he'll eat pallets for the first 1-2 oni modes then eat the entire team on the next one.
So you are basically saying he is so overpowered in his ability that the only counterplay is to hide in a locker? I agree.
Or alternatively, you can burn like 5+ safe pallets and get wrecked on the next time he pops it.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/904153#Comment_904153
"It doesn't matter slugging "costs you nothing" if it's creating massive pressure and also giving away the locations of the other survivors through IF."
That's literally the entire point. So you hate it for no other reason than that it's a strong play for the killer and creates pressure. That's WHY he does it. There's nothing wrong with that.
"It also doesn't matter that downing someone costs a fraction of his power bar because if they are in IF range the next survivor is like 1/2 a second away with a demon dash."
And easily loopable like almost every other killer.
"And yes, you can absolutely hook 1 person at a time and go chase-to-chase with an M1 killer and still win at rank 1. Pop goes the weasel ensures this."
Ensures? No. Helps? yes.
Playing that way is how you lose against GOOD survivors. We aren't talking about low rank potatoes.
"And any killer will win against bad survivors, but Oni does it particularly fast and brutal through a series of slugs with a power that's impossible to avoid without safe pallets."
He's a noob stomper that's weak against actually competent survivors. His power is extremely easy to avoid if you know how to loop.
None of this has even touched on the fact that you have multiple anti-slug perks available to use if you really find slugging that annoying.
His power basically means you have to be humping a safe pallet at all times, or you are liable to get 1 shot with 0 counterplay. Combined with the extreme mobility you are basically locked into whatever location you are at once it goes off.
No other killer can slug like Oni. Billy comes close but his power actually takes a lot of skill to use and is significantly easier to juke. Oni's power? Not so much. It's a friggin AOE 1 shot. Any time Oni's power goes off your team is liable to get 4 man slugged, especially later in the game when there are less pallets.
So sure he is weak if you can deny those initial M1's. But as a solo Q player I can't make that happen.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/904131#Comment_904131
"Hooking you can instantly rescue the survivor,"
And it cost you one of you 3 hooks, slugging costs you nothing
"slugging you have to sit there for like 30 seconds healing them"
No, the survivor on the ground can recover himself quite quickly and then only needs a tap to get up. Not 30 seconds.
"It also takes 0 time from the killer to slug, where-as hooking is a relatively lengthy process."
That's entirely the reason killers choose to slug.
"His power turns off when you hook as well."
He also loses power bar on each hit.
"There's a reason literally every oni is running IF right now."
Because that's how you win with any killer, PRESSURE. Downing 1 survivor, hooking them and then repeating this without slugging at all is how you lose the game unless the survivors are just low rank potatoes. Against any competent team you will need to slug if you want to win. This is like complaining that the killers don't choose to willingly play dumb.
"Unsafe map or bad team? Biggest pub stomper in the game I would wager."
This applies to almost all killers. Lots of killers have maps they suck on and maps they are very strong on. This isn't unique to Oni at all. Oni on a good map is no different than Ghostface on Hawkins, it's strong, but not OP.
"Once he gets those two M1s he is a god tier killer,"
Even once he gets them he's not even remotely close to god tier lol. He's literally still completely loopable and extremely loud to avoid in the first place.
"Basically, a badly designed killer."
Not a single thing you have said has categorized him as badly designed, literally nothing. You've just made a lot of exagerations about how deadly things about him are and failing to know how to loop.
It doesn't matter slugging "costs you nothing" if it's creating massive pressure and also giving away the locations of the other survivors through IF.
It also doesn't matter that downing someone costs a fraction of his power bar because if they are in IF range the next survivor is like 1/2 a second away with a demon dash.
And yes, you can absolutely hook 1 person at a time and go chase-to-chase with an M1 killer and still win at rank 1. Pop goes the weasel ensures this.
And any killer will win against bad survivors, but Oni does it particularly fast and brutal through a series of slugs with a power that's impossible to avoid without safe pallets.
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@snozer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881229#Comment_881229
If he is able to chainsaw you around a loop, that is on you for being greedy.
If he catches you out of position, YOU made the mistake and for once YOU are punished for it.
He has zero ability to land a chainsaw from a distance unless you are a potato.
Tired of survivors wanting to sleep during the game and have zero threats...
Clearly you don't know how to curve with billy. Billy has tons of opportunities to saw at loops if you know what you are doing.
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@Blueberry said:
There are already tons of counters to slugging available to you. Oni also isn't even that strong.
There's also no difference between you sitting on the ground and on the hook besides getting to live longer on the ground.
These complaints don't make any sense.
Uhh, there's a huge difference between slugging and hooking. Hooking you can instantly rescue the survivor, slugging you have to sit there for like 30 seconds healing them. It also takes 0 time from the killer to slug, where-as hooking is a relatively lengthy process. His power turns off when you hook as well. Hooking also procs BT / DS / etc etc. There's a reason literally every oni is running IF right now.
And Oni isn't strong if you get a good map and have a good team. Unsafe map or bad team? Biggest pub stomper in the game I would wager. Once he gets those two M1s he is a god tier killer, but a really good team or a really safe map can deny him those for a long time.
Basically, a badly designed killer.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903924#Comment_903924
Wait curving around the entire cow tree? I mean with his dash he can probably go around the entire tree, though he won't be turning very tight. I think the turning of his dash is perfectly fine and should not be changed in any way. Unless you can also turn tighter during your dash when using left and right by binding those two actions to e and q. But I haven't noticed that myself. Also, Cow Tree isn't very useful against any killer once the pallet is gone, and that shouldn't be any other way. Him being a bit better at Cow Tree than other killers is definitely not a problem, he needs to be good in chases because his power is on a time limit, otherwise he's useless.
It's the flick with his lunge that he can do that will probably be nerfed. At least that's what can be made much better when binding left and right to q and e. Turning with mouse and q and e can stack, which I guess is the problem that's being fixed. Not sure about that though.
I don't know how they are doing it, I should record one the next time I see it. But I've seen oni's do like complete 90+ degree turns mid demon dash, basically totally changing direction and being able to get around a ton of objects.
From what I have seen you are basically boned if there is no safe pallet nearby. Sort of like billy but at least billy you can juke the saw much easier and there's no insane curves without add-ons and a lot of skill.
And yes cow tree isn't safe once the pallet is gone, but with Oni you can see him far off the distance and 2 seconds later he curves around the cow tree and nails you for the 1 shot. No other killer is going to do that.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903697#Comment_903697
Wherever you go it alone or with someone else your survival is still dependent on others.
I normally run a lone wolf build when I'm playing survivor which means I typically do things by myself doesn't mean I could get myself off hook if I'm in struggle stage.
And if I'm being chased I still need to rely on people to do generators or open exit Gates.
As somebody who plays a lot of Lone Wolf while I primarily focus on myself I still kind of need other people to be alive and not potatoes
I mean that's just the description of the game from Steam. I always do lone wolf as well, but bring a key any time I can. Paired with deliverance, that completely separates my performance from my team in most cases.
It's helpful to have them alive of course, but you won't catch me dying for any of them. The goal of the game is to survive, however you can. I let people die for hatch all the time. But honestly you should be killing yourself anyways if it's down to the last 2 survivors and there's like 4 gens left.