Apple2o
Apple2o
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@SirFloofington said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903025#Comment_903025
A killer is oppressive when they can capitalize on a single mistake and start to snowball the game from there, making a mistake against almost any killer guarantees a hit which is the usual reward for capitalizing on a mistake. Billy may chainsaw you but the degree of mistake made by that compared to an M1 is significantly different. Oni on the other hand gains the benefit of getting the hit (the usual reward of a killer) but ontop of that gaining half of his power instantly and now either filling the map with blood orbs or forcing a survivor to heal them taking 16 seconds out of gen time. Alternatively the Oni chases them for 40 seconds (If the survivor does literally nothing else but running, any actions such as vaulting,dropping pallets,crouching and entering lockers increase the blood orbs drop, significantly reducing the time it takes to get his power) at minimum and has his power. Also assuming he can't catch people in structures is dumb, maybe disgusting ones like Rancid Abbitor or Coal tower. Also hiding for 45 seconds when most of the time his power is popped after hooking someone is pretty catastrophic. Essentially making his ability "Survivors may not work on gens or hook rescue for 45 seconds" which is pretty ridiculous. So that leaves 15 seconds to save a survivor after his power ends,no gens being worked on during those 45 seconds and this also assumes he didn't go back to the hook to ensure a phase 2 on a survivor. All of this because of 2 healthy survivor hits or 1 hit and 20-40 seconds of blood orb collecting, yeah I think that's the definition of a oppressive killer. If you can argue against that scenario then please do because it's very common for Oni to still have his power and come back to the hook to someone being rescued and down the other person quickly or losing his power and getting a free hit on someone, getting him 40% there to another "Do nothing for 45 seconds" power.
That sums it up pretty well. Once he gets his first power activation, he's probably going to down someone and continue the blood collection cycle. So really, it's only those two M1s at the start that make or break him, and two M1s isn't a very high requirement for such a powerful ability.
Add in things like SWFs brining in a rank 16 noob or two, or unsafe maps like Hawkins, and there's usually no way your team will be able to deny those M1s very long.
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I don't like him personally. He punishes me for having a bad team more than any other killer to date. It is always an awful match if my potato team feeds him his overpowered ability for free.
Those two first M1s at the start of the game are the main counterplay to oni, and it's kinda dumb.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903880#Comment_903880
Yes exactly. I'm not sure what this means exactly, but my guess is that it refers to the insane flick Oni can do at the moment.
He can curve around some insanely tight objects currently. I've seen Oni's who can curve around the entire cow tree and it's honestly stupid. Nothing you can do about it if the pallet is gone.
I'm not sure how they are doing it though because I don't play him. But I've seen some pretty absurd curves so far, with basically nothing the survivor can do about them except die. The only thing keeping him balanced is how he is super weak at the start and needs 2 M1s to get rolling.
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I don't think he is overpowered, but is definitely annoying to play against.
When your team feeds him some easy M1s and you are the recipient of his power it feels bad, similar to your team being able to feed myers stalk and then you are the one who eats the 99% tier 3 even though you haven't seen him the entire game.
It's super hard to avoid his power unless you have a safe pallet nearby.
That's why I am not liking him so far, he is way too pub-stompy. Good survivors who can loop and stop his M1 and he will get dunked but if your team is feeding him? There's very little you can do about it.
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Why run urban when you can run spine chill, the best stealth perk in the game? I always gotta laugh when I smack some urban evading Claudette with ghostface and their whole immersed build is useless.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903638#Comment_903638
This was in early 2018. Mori's were still after one hook. This was more or less right before killers got some sorely needed QOL changes that put them anywhere near where they are today. He did the same thing with perkless, addonless Freddy at around that time as well. You going to tell me he got terrible survivors every single game? Perks and addons have no place in your argument here - cause he did it perkless and addonless.
Killers, while still grossly underpowered, are in the most balanced placed they have ever been in this game. Just because you're not good enough to do it doesn't make it impossible.
I'm just saying that in 2018 you could still 1v1 the killer as a survivor, and pretty easily as well. Up until the BL nerf you could still 1v1 the killer this whole year.
If marth was 4king all the time they were probably just bad, doesn't matter what rank it was at.
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Key Features
• Survive Together… Or Not - Survivors can either cooperate with the others or be selfish. Your chance of survival will vary depending on whether you work together as a team or if you go at it alone. Will you be able to outwit the Killer and escape their Killing Ground?
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Don't ever make the assumption that rank = skill. Rank = playtime for survivors.
There's rank 1 survivors I see who can barely run a basic loop, never look behind them, and basically just hold W in chase. There's also rank 1 survivors who have every single tile memorized and you will literally not be able to M1 them until you have burned through every safe pallet in the area.
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Oh and old DS so you had a completely free extra life as well.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903638#Comment_903638
This was in early 2018. Mori's were still after one hook. This was more or less right before killers got some sorely needed QOL changes that put them anywhere near where they are today. He did the same thing with perkless, addonless Freddy at around that time as well. You going to tell me he got terrible survivors every single game? Perks and addons have no place in your argument here - cause he did it perkless and addonless.
Killers, while still grossly underpowered, are in the most balanced placed they have ever been in this game. Just because you're not good enough to do it doesn't make it impossible.
Yes. If you were dying in 2018 to old freddy you were just terrible. I think that's when all the maps had double the (vaccum) pallets and was before the exhaustion nerf as well so you had multiple sprints bursts during chase.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903621#Comment_903621
This was a specific challenge, to 4K every game. So he did it the easiest way possible. Different situation entirely and the comparison means nothing.
As for his previous challenge - while pipping up to rank 1 was easier back then, playing Wraith, and killer as a whole was SIGNIFICANTLY harder at that time. So no, not impossible "bud". Stop trying to make excuses.
Back in the day killers had some ridiculously overpowered things as well. Like mori's from first down. Old dying light + remember me was the best and most toxic combo in the game.
You could also AFK all game, NOED 4 people at the end, and that was a pip up.
I stand by that you can only win without doing it if the survivors are bad, when the game is played as close to a stock M1 killer as possible. Fortunately, most survivors are, even at red ranks. But when you hit those 3-4k hour survivors who have every tile memorized? Yeah, no. M1 killer isn't good enough for that.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903612#Comment_903612
Again, even good survivors make mistakes. It is not in any sense of the word impossible. Unbelievably and ridiculously difficult? Definitely. Not impossible.
In fact, we all watched Marth do an iron wraith challenge a couple years back (when killer life was even more difficult than now, and Wraith was even less powerful than he is now), with no perks or addons from rank 20 to rank 1. Without camping or tunneling.
Uhhh Marth camps, slugs, and tunnels religiously in his new "hardcore" dbd challenge. So I don't buy it bud. BTW, rank 1 was much easier to get a few years ago.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/903604#Comment_903604
It is not impossible. Even with addonless Wraith.
You are right. The survivors could just be terrible. But i'm talking about good survivors who actually know how to loop, know all the infinities, rocking every second chance perk available, etc etc.
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@Nutty_Professor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902975#Comment_902975
As I mentioned in my original post I personally wasn't the one being camped, and in the image you the see the person being facecamped by the P3 trapper did have kindred. I personally hold an expectation that rank 2 killers shouldn't be camping. Does a rank 2 really need to camp in a 3v1 or with an ebony mori?
And I have already mentioned I'm a big believer in that the killer can do whatever they like as long as they find it fun. I personally facecamp every Elvis Hair Nea (Nea with the close cut) I go against. I'm not saying that every red rank killer is a camper, this post is about matchmaking putting against a killer that wanted to play in that way.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902216#Comment_902216
You have point bond is useful in that aspect but I'll sometimes forget what areas where pallets have been. Yes, my build is mainly to help me in prolonged chases, and I mainly use bond to help me avoid running to jungle gyms and areas where people are working on generators.
I've been doing a lot of perkless, addonless wraith games at rank 1 and I can confidently say it is IMPOSSIBLE to 4k without camping, slugging, or tunneling. There is literally no time to do 12 chases, when even 1 chase through a strong area can cost you 2+ gens. You have to clear out some pallets near the gens you want, hook someone near it, and camp that area. That's the only way I have been able to consistently win with it.
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@beatddb said:
The best camping killer is The Doctor, you can grab unhooking people even in treatment mode, 99% of the survivors don't know it.
As opposed to one shot killers who can just deny survivors even getting near the hook to begin with? Or they get slugged next to the hook for even more pressure? Doctor is trash at everything.
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People get so salty over this game and it's hilarious.
I did some super sweaty perkless, add-onless wraith games and people were still crying when I was slugging, tunneling, camping, etc etc. It's like bruh, you just got beat down by a terrible killer when you were running every crutch in this game, suck it up and move on.
I never moan when killers camp or tunnel me because I run perks that help counter it. You won't ever catch me without at least deliverance+DS, I hate having to rely on my team to save me. Good luck camping that combo in the endgame.
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The best way to derank is tombstone myers. Change my mind.
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902170#Comment_902170
iridescent gatekeeper
camped all game
Literally how? Did all the survivors dive for the hook? Why can't my survivors be so useless?
Because if it's solo Q, every single survivor has to come over to the hook to realize a camp is happening. Add in a particularly nasty hook in the middle of the open and it is going to take all 3 survivors to make the save, and they are probably all going to eat hits doing it.
They did get the first down off the hook, at the expense of her hitting half, 3 sloppy butcher hits and another survivor down. But I just tunneled her straight to dead through DS in 20 seconds anyways because lolspirit. From there hooked the other downed survivor and facecamped him to dead, I think 4 gens were up at this point so I knew I could proper facecamp him down and didn't move at all.
Nobody saved him, found the next survivor, facecamped them to dead (they struggled and hit half first) then found the hatch and nailed the last survivor with NOED right before she got out the gate.
EZ-PZ.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902053#Comment_902053
I don't believe those survivors did the "Just Do Gens" strategy. By the looks of it they ran around the hook trying to save their friend. The -46 should be proof enough. If you camped one survivor to death you would have a min of -330 (16 meters) and a max of -825 (8 meters). Maybe you weren't going for the face camp strategy but the walk away and phase back to the hook strategy.
No way. Here's another one I just did. I camped as much as possible, stayed as close to the hooks as I possibly could while maintaining pressure on the camp. This is at least a solid ~3-4 minutes of being at 1m from the hook.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902111#Comment_902111
I find you lucky then, I am constantly running into survivors who do nothing but hold M1 and the games over in 5 mins.
Even if they weren't common, why CAN a game end in 5 mins? It shouldn't even be a thing. No one enjoys a game lasting 5 mins and no one pips because it ended too fast.
Probably because a camping killer can kill a survivor in two minutes. Sure there are games where as killer I get gen rushed and it's over in 5 min, but there's also the games where 2 people go into the basement at the start and it's over in 30 seconds.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902007#Comment_902007
I guess. Running add-ons just gets so expensive. Most matches it's either I do well and get bored so that I just let the survivors go or I do terrible and get like 8k points. (Unless I just farm the survivors, but I haven't been doing that as much lately. It's gotten kinda old.) Either way, I don't earn enough BP to keep up with burning through add-ons. But that's my own problem, changing the Yakuyoke Amulet won't fix that. I just personally think they changed it in a weird way. Purple add-ons usually don't have a negative; that's normally reserved for the pink add-ons.
Do you use BBQ? I can still get 30-40k with BBQ even in a lost game, assuming you get all 4 stacks.
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@Mister_xD said:
uhm...
no.
thats been tested and heavily abused by survivors already.
it could also lead to a game hostage situation - and there are already counters to facecamping.
namingly not killing yourself on the hook (if you are the hooked one) / doing gens (if you are not the hooked one).
and bam! there will ba a maximum of 2 kills that game - unless you feed the killer more kills that is.
I hate it when people say "just do gens". I will repost this here as an example. Facecamping has almost 0 counterplay when done by the 1 shot killers (only deliverance+DS+unbreakable) and can still be an absolute nightmare even when done by traditional killers. I can 3-4k with facecamping at rank 1 very easily.
It is mindless to do, and isn't even punished particularly hard by the emblem system. What is the counter? Don't go down in the first place? Good luck against spirit.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901989#Comment_901989
I rarely play with add-ons, anyway. But when I do, I'm used to her normal movement speed, so going slower than her base Haunting movement speed feels like I'm walking through molasses, even if I am still faster than survivors. Going by that, I'll continue to choose no add-ons over that add-on.
You know you could also put another one on to counter the movement speed slow and in fact go faster and have a longer duration?
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@GrootDude said:
No collision has actually been a lot of fun for me since it has opened up new tricks for me, I rarely used purple rarity add ons anyway so those changes don’t bother me and adding a vault animation just means that I will have to put more skill into it, which I enjoy.
How are the changes treating everyone else?
I actually like the no collision. I had a SWF try to bodyblock me from a wounded survivor earlier and I just phased straight through them to get the down anyways, lol.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Her speed coming out of phase is ridiculous. It feels like hitting a brick wall. I hope it's a bug and it gets fixed, because it feels really awkward.
The Yakuyoke Amulet should've just had the recharge speed increase removed, instead of messing with her movement speed. Decreasing her base Haunting movement speed makes the add-on useless.
I don't think so, because you are still way faster than the survivors while phasing. It gives you a much longer window to catch up to a survivor or make more elaborate moves at pallets.
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@Cable2486 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/900735#Comment_900735
You're playing a game in which killers are trying to murder you, any means necessary. Given that several of the Killers are from horror titles that capitalize on the 'Jump Scare' as a means of terrifying their audience, and you actually have the nerve to say a perk which allows them to do that should be deleted? It's a trade perk. You can use it to set traps for survivors in a number of ways, in exchange for allowing them unimpeded repair time. Granted, it might seem silly for a Wraith to use it, it's an amazingly useful perk for his toolkit. Any situation in which a Wraith can fake a bell ring, then slip into stealth and ambush a survivor is a beyond viable strategy. Yes, it loses pressure, but when you get those annoying savior-types that rescue like clockwork, it's a great way to punish them for being overly predictable.
Besides, many perks are abused by both sides. Pre-nerf DS, for example. You couldn't even find swf teams that didn't run it in concert with borrowed time on EVERY. SINGLE. MEMBER.
I can't take anyone serious who is promoting insidious wraith. That is such a waste of a perk slot on him. You may as well just play ghostface if you wanna attack immediately from stealth.
Now insidious nurse? I can get behind that, because it actually gives you some new tools to work with, and is super effective at letting her tunnel-mori since you can just sit looking at the hook until someone saves and then teleport straight onto them.
BTW I still see DS/BT on like 50% of survivors at high ranks. Typically I see 2-3 DS per game, sometimes all 4.
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@concious_consumer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901949#Comment_901949
True. Completely forgot because I almost don't see them nowdays
I see oni like every other game right now lol, and he's an S tier facecamper. I see plenty of ghostface as well, but usually they don't stalk.
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@tetsuo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901907#Comment_901907
A survivor can cancel Ghostface’s terror radius just by looking at him, which isn’t hard if he’s camping
A good ghostface can directly stalk the hook without being revealed. One of the cheapest tactics I do on him is run a mori, hook someone, and sit right next to the hook behind a bush or something. When you hear someone coming for the save, you pop out and instantly stab the guy being unhooked for the mori. Can't stop it with BT, DS, or any other way really. If you do it well they won't even know you are there, it's one of my best tactics for quickly defeating a SWF.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901094#Comment_901094
Exactly. The best killers can apply pressure to multiple survivors at once, not just focus one and let the others do whatever they like.
But ironically, they are also the best killers for focusing someone down. I feel like spirit especially doesn't care much about DS because you can immediately phase walk back onto them and continue to tunnel. Then DS is gone and they can be freely tunneled to death.
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@Rasinbran said:
It's funny how getting a high rank provides no reward but people are so finicky about getting it like why? What's wrong with playing the game for fun? I personally enjoy see a rank 10 drop a pallet on themselves and get downed while I have bond on.
Because if it's a good killer, the next thing that probably happens is they come over and pop your gen. And every time that rank 10 goes down in ~15 seconds to the rank 1, the killer comes back to delete your gen until they are dead. Now its 3v1. Maybe they just fed 3x dying light stacks.
It's awful having such an imbalanced team. I was dodging like there was no tomorrow with the system and I was actually having way more fun as a solo Q survivor because I would get proper matches.
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Good
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/900097#Comment_900097
True that MYC does give you indication sometimes... but don’t think killers should need a perk to out-time BT and DS personally. Also if you’re trying to catch a blatant survivor making a save then MYC won’t proc.
I mean I use them either way, because they are some of the best killer perks in the game. The built-in DS timer is just a bonus.
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@Acromio said:
People still saying DS has anything resembling counterplay, lol.
The counterplay is camping them to dead so they can't use it. Same with keys. It's an unfortunate part of the game.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/898867#Comment_898867
They could just add a mini-timer under people’s names to fix that?
Pop goes the weasel and make your choice are the best anti-DS perks. They encourage you to not tunnel to begin with, but if you can't make use of them they are the best DS timer.
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It counters tunneling but also counters you just killing the survivors too fast. Is it my fault the survivors are terrible and go down from full hp twice within a minute?
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Just stop assuming you have three lives when you are playing survivor and you will be fine. Assume going down once = death unless your god combo of perks is ready to go. Because that's how it is going to play out in solo Q most of the time. The killer won't even be camping and your team will still let you hit half sometimes.
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And while it's true the survivor "failed" by not getting the gens done by then, you also have to consider they could have just had a potato team that got stomped or the killer was running overpowered items / offering.
Especially when the lousy matchmaking puts you into unwinnable games. I will get games where, as a rank 1, my team is a SWF that consists of another rank 1 and two rank 15's. We get a rank 1 killer and it's literally a 2v1 at that point. I "failed" by joining that lobby, not by playing poorly. And thinking about it, it's probably even worse than a 2v1 because the rank 15's will be feeding the killer all his snowball perks as well.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/900016#Comment_900016
Ok. But it did count with the Tome challenge, so that's fine with me.
At one point they made it so that an early flashlight save would cause the survivor to drop, and it ended up being so easy to do that it was borderline overpowered and these forums were filled to the brim with killer tears. That's why it doesn't work without good timing.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/899999#Comment_899999
Yes it counted and I got the challenge.
The Wraith was picking up the survivor, as he got them on his shoulder...I flashed him.
A "Killer Blinded" notification then popped up but he kept hold of the survivor.
Well you did it too early then. The killer has to exit the animation and be blinded for the flashlight save to work. L2P, etc etc.
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She's still probably the strongest killer in the game. I can go into a game using 0 slowdown perks, run devour hope, and just start ruining people. Your devour can spawn on top of a gen and it will still work half the time because you apply so much pressure they don't even touch the gens sometimes. Can't do that on most killers.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896129#Comment_896129
No comment. (future me insert comment about toxicity and hypocrites)
You can go onto any of the major streamers like tru3 or otz and see some examples of typical post game chat.
Otz playing nice, not camping, not tunneling, etc etc all game. Still gets BM'd and a middle finger half the time. After a while of that, you wonder why you are handicapping yourself following the survivors rulebook to begin with, because you are gonna get BM'd no matter what.
Then, you begin to play "toxic" and are impressed with the much better results. Eventually, you start to enjoy taking an iri head ebony noed bamboozle huntress down to the salt mines.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896112#Comment_896112
Maybe because the game is supposed to be fun and not a facecamp simulator. I feel sorry for you.
Play killer at red ranks for a while and you will understand. I don't feel sorry for any of the salty, teabagging, flashlight clicking, BMing survivors I usually see.
And don't get me started on the toxic SWFs, rocking literally everything under the sun and a key for their free escape to boot. Then talking smack like SWF is balanced.
I play to win, winning is fun, and there is no better way to win in this game then making it a 3v1 as soon as possible.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896078#Comment_896078
Camping and tunneling should be discouraged because of DS and BT. Not justified
As someone who religiously camps and tunnels, the overwhelming majority of the complaints are completely unjustified. There is a huge difference between maliciously 1 hooking someone with 5 gens left (which I do) and camping someone to death in the middle of a 3 gen when they went down next to ruin (which I also do). But survivors will complain about both equally.
DS and BT need to be as good as they are to stop the strong competent killers from camping, but a side effect is they dunk on the weaker/newer killers by being so incredibly powerful. Combined, both are more than enough to deal with most campers.
Then you add in things like deliverance, unbreakable, etc etc and the survivors are basically at a 100% escape rate from the hook as long as the perks are still available. Only very seasoned killers are usually able to hard camp down a competent team of survivors running those perks.
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@Sign_Spinner said:
I'm curious, why would you like to avoid playing against someone especifically?
I've seen:
-They don't like your killer (tons of blocked spirits, freddies, etc). You could get blocked permanently for doing a daily and not even know it.
-They don't like your playstyle (blah blah camping / tunneling when BT and DS exist)
-They don't like what you say at the endgame
Basically, anyone you beat was liable to block you so they didn't have to face you again, and potentially get beat by you again. Plenty of people only want to enter games they will win, not games with competent killers who will challenge them.
Luckily dedicated servers got rid of it. It was annoying at high ranks and let you stream snipe like a GOD.
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It already existed before dedicated servers in the form of DBD lobbies, and was pretty annoying. Just tons of people entitle blocking everything. Oh, you play a killer I don't like? BLOCKED!
Then once you were blocked, they would constantly sit in your lobby until 59 seconds passed and then dodge with 1 second left.
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Probably using up dedicated server bandwidth.
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@Venom368 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/895761#Comment_895761
If a nurse runs no perks or add-ons, they can definitely lose on a very large map, like you mentioned. She definitely would need something to help her out on those type of maps. But, I think you underestimate how long 1k hours is compared to how many options survivors have as far as juking her goes.
Time played has nothing to do with skill. It only implies game knowledge, which is still an advantage, but there's a reason you can go to CS:GO and watch lifetime players get dunked on by like 14 year old E-sports kids.....some people are just naturally better at video games.
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Well, jump on over to killer then.
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Depends on the killer lol.
I never use spirit fury or enduring personally, I think it's too many wasted perk slots for a handful of easy hits; hard countered by early throws once they know you have it. Though to be fair, by the time they know you have it, it's usually because they were already downed by it.
I find significantly more M1 chasing utility in brutal strength + bamboozle for those same slots. So I would lean towards pop goes.
Pop is probably my favorite perk in the game. Nothing deletes those gens faster, and it will quickly carry you to whatever rank you should really be at. It's the best snowball perk there is, besides the unreliable devour hope.