AngyKiller
AngyKiller
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724665#Comment_2724665
Basement mori counts as 2 kills, for the purposes of a Survivor's life pool?
I'm not completely sold on your thematic vision, but mechanically the respawn timer sounds worthwile.
Maybe even set it up so if all survivors are dead at the same time the Killer wins instantly. I know people are not in love with Slugging, but it suddenly makes slugging a viable strategy for winning quickly, rather than waiting for everyone's 4 minute bleedout timer to expire. And then perks revolving around anti-slug can circle into more use.
Also; I was stupid and did not remember your first question. I'd say...no.
Instead, basement kills add some extra time to the killed Survivor's respawn timer. And that perk for making Basement better could just add more time, too. Or speed up sacrifice animations in the basement.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724665#Comment_2724665
Basement mori counts as 2 kills, for the purposes of a Survivor's life pool?
I'm not completely sold on your thematic vision, but mechanically the respawn timer sounds worthwile.
Maybe even set it up so if all survivors are dead at the same time the Killer wins instantly. I know people are not in love with Slugging, but it suddenly makes slugging a viable strategy for winning quickly, rather than waiting for everyone's 4 minute bleedout timer to expire. And then perks revolving around anti-slug can circle into more use.
I'd say you could allow an insta-win if, and only if, Survivors could pick themselves back up. To prevent mass slugging & waiting for the Killer to kill you.
I mean, granted; a Survivor will probably respawn if the Killer has to carry people one at a time to designated sacrifice areas, then kill them one at a time, but we don't want to encourage slugging too much.
Maybe Survivors have to fill the bar, then hit 3 hard skillchecks when near walls or objects to pick themselves up? Every hit makes them stand up a little more, but a miss lowers them back 1 stage with a noise notification.
There can even be perks to make getting up faster a thing.
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Why, pray tell? Any real, balance reason why? Or just 'I don't like it'?
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How to fix camping (And I may have posted this already):
- Remove hooks
- Make the Killer have to bring Survivors to special areas where they can drop them and perform a Mori. This allows for Flashlight & Pallet saves. Plus perks like DStrike still work, and so does wriggling free & body blocking to allow said wriggling free.
- Change 'self unhook' perks to 'escape the mori animation' perks.
- Make sure the kill animations take, on average, the same time, so there's no 'kill animation meta'.
- Allow Survivors to run around as a ghost. They do not see traps, killers, pallets, generators, or living Survivors. So no death-spectating.
- When a timer has ended (Say, oh, 60 seconds), the Survivor can now respawn where he/she is standing. But this is a choice; they can put it off and move elsewhere. They just have to wait 60 seconds before they CAN spawn.
- Survivors have 3 'deaths', same as 3 hooks.
This also fixes tunneling off the hook, since the Killer has no idea where or when a Survivor respawned. it also makes Moris more impactful, because they are used as the way to kill, not hooks.
So less tunneling, and 0 camping.
Hell, if you really wanted to go wild; add interactive shrines, where living Survivors can channel for a few seconds to cut down on dead Survivor's respawn timers. Basically; giving up gen time to bring back a friend & try to make it up in gen stacking.
Boom; Killers are a literal threat, camping can not exist, and tunneling is down. 😁
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Yeah, modding made it a bit too easy to cheat, so please don't bring it back.
'I'm going to reskin the trappers traps to have a bright orange skin!'
or
'I'm going to reskin the lockers transparent so I can see if a Survivor is inside!'
or
'I'm going to reskin the Killer/Survivors so I can see them across even the largest, darkest levels!'
All are just other methods of cheating.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302201/you-dont-need-a-4k-the-toxic-mindset
dude. chill. if you want the 4k then go play for the 4k, why open a thread that serves no purpose? a game should not affect you this much mentally.
You're kind of ignoring the undercurrent of toxicity in the game, with a reply like that.
Who cares if it affects me or not. Who cares if the insults actually affect anyone or not. They should still be discouraged. But this game seems to have this undercurrent of 'It's okay to be an #########' coupled with 'Why do the Killers do things I don't find fun?' and/or 'Why is the Killer not thinking of MY fun?'
There was a reply either today or yesterday in another thread where someone literally said 'I get sweaty killers going for the 4K instead of trying to have fun'. And that is the mindset I'm referring too; this idea that Killers are responsible for Survivor fun, and should stop 'sweating for the 4K'. IE: They should stop trying to win, because it makes Survivors sad.
Again; this is the only PvP game I've ever played where one side thinks the other side should consider their fun, and play accordingly.
I've never heard of this excuse in LoL, Fortnite, Overwatch, Planetside 2, PUBG, Dark Souls PvP circles, CSGO, TF2, Armello, DBFZ, Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, etc. etc.
But in DBD, for some unholy reason, each side seems to think 'My fun' is an excuse for balance. They also think it's an excuse to shame the 'other side' for how they play, and demand the 'other side' play according to their own 'fun'.
You what to know something, readers? DBD is known for having one of the most toxic player bases in current gaming.
When New World launched, and PvP players were demanding PvE players be forced to PvP, or PvP players be allowed to push PvE players off gathering nodes, and PvP players literally claiming they're just better human beings than 'scrubby PvE players'; I actually saw someone say 'This community is horrible' and one of the first replies was 'No way. You want a horrible community? Play DBD.'
You don't counter toxicity by ignoring it & letting the spewers continue to act this way to other people.
You stop these mindsets, from both sides, at the bud. You punish toxicity by confronting it and removing it, not ignoring it. And since the developers have said they don't care, and anything short of racism and death threats is fine; it's up to the community to be the adults that the devs are too lazy to be.
We, the players, need to tell our teammates that it's not cool to insult the Killers.
We, the players, need to not insult Survivors AS the Killer.
We, the players, need to be good sports, win or lose, regardless of what perks and tactics are used. It does not matter if you, I, or Bill or Dwight and Ghostface think a perk is 'cheap' or 'OP' or 'unfair'; that is no excuse to treat another human being like garbage.
And part of that is to stop this toxic mindset that you (royal 'you'; not the person I quoted or anyone specific) are owed fun. Or you expect the other team to consider your fun over their attempt to win.
It's an unreasonable expectation. Both sides are trying to win and, short of cheats or unintended exploits; they have a right to try to win however they want. And it gets frustrating, as a Killer, when Survivors bring 4 meta perks each, play as hard as they can (and have a right too), and then scream at me over the perks I chose & the tactics I employed, because 'my fun' is an accepted excuse to be a miserable human being to someone else.
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All they need to do is add an invisible timer that begins counting down from 60 when the EGC hits 0.
Once it hits 0, anyone in the match can exit & keep all their BP.
If they want to be sneaky; they could make sure it does not write to the same memory address each time, which makes it so much harder to hack, because it changes every match.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Just delete the ######### endgame chat already
A-men!
Now, I mostly play Killer, so most my stories will be of toxic Survivors, but that's just my common PoV; not an Us vs Them thing:
I had one game where I was playing Trapper, and people were just falling into my traps. I have no clue how these people were this unobservant. I had trap that each person stepped in once. I never moved it; they just kept stepping in it. No one could learn, and they had the object permanence of a 3 month old. I got a 4K, no surprise.
So, of course, endgame chat was filled with 'Uninstall', 'Scrub Trapper'. and '######### for picking Trapper'.
Or the time I played as Hag, and would put my Hag traps in chokepoints. Never next to the hook. You never had to crouch WHILE unhooking someone. You just had to be alert going in for the save.
Again; these people never learned that my traps were in obvious chokepoints and funnels. So I have 3 kills, going for 4th. Hit him while he vaults, and before he even hits thr ground after the vault animation; he DCs. He must have had one hand on the modem to DC in less than a second from the hit.
Of course, even though he 'DC'd; he was in endgame chat. Showing he probably had a setup to do this, and did it frequently. His first comment 'Campers don't deserve a 4K'. I streamed, back then, and my chat (It was a whopping 15 people, most just watching for fun, not already-set fans) was nearly peeing themselves laughing at this Survivors excuse. Not a single viewer agreed with his take.
One of the few times I played Survivor, I had this happen. It was back when I was VERY new to streaming. I had maybe 5-ish viewers.
My screen name did not have 'TTV' in it, as I consider that a form of e-begging for views, and in bad taste if done on someone else's stream. So no one had any way to know I streamed.
It's a Billy. This was back in the first year, maybe second, of DBD. Down to me and another streamer. I can recall DBD being new, because I was explaining to my viewers 'I COULD go in and try to save him, but the Billy is camping, and I'm wounded; he could just M1 me before I can save the other guy. I'm looking for an opening, but...'
While I'm in the middle of saying this, my chat gets FLOODED with 'Lil #########' from about 30 people. Apparently the other player looked at my screen name, googled it to see if I was a streamer (because nothing in my profile mentioned streaming), and told his viewer-base to attack me, on stream, for not trading.
His words, as best I can remember them 'I have more viewers, so I'm the better streamer and deserve to get away'.
The real kicker? I got away and, in the chat, the Billy told the streamer 'I stream sniped you after you lead me to another player on purpose, and after how you treated the Dwight (me): I let him get away & camped you because f- you, toxic a-hole.'
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723651#Comment_2723651
Why even mention the harrssment is that the part that brings your group fun
I think, by 'harass' he meant 'draw the Killer's attention'. Not 'be toxic and anger the Killer'.
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Betty White fact:
In 1954, Betty White was criticized after having Arthur Duncan, a Black tap dancer, on her show. Her response: "I'm sorry. Live with it."
She then gave Duncan even more airtime.
Given she was literally older than sliced bread; that kind of viewpoint was (sadly, still is, in some places) incredibly progressive.
Betty White was the world's cool grandma.
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@dictep said:
We need new killers that play to have fun, and get 2k on average. Not this old killers that used to 4k and think they deserved it.
🤣🤣🤣
'We need Killers that don't try to win! If Killers TRY to win, I don't think they don't deserve the 4K they got!'
or
'Killers should be happy with a 2K, because Survivors find it fun!'
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@dugman said:
I’d love to see the devs have a system in the background that monitors for impossible results like unreachable movement speeds and too many instant heals and recoveries and blindness lasting too long, etc. Have the servers watching for red flag events, temporarily automatically suspend accounts flagged for likely cheating, save a game review file for customer support and automatically put it in a ticket. The customer service can review and decide if the ban should become permanent or be lifted.
It’s like you don’t need to know all the details of how a car is built to know it’s speeding, you just need to monitor its speed while its driving. Similarly you don’t need to know how a hack is programmed to know it’s letting a survivor instantly heal over and over, you just need to monitor the health states and time it takes to heal.
This would be nice. Like if it could monitor A Survivors X & Y axis, and if it's above or below a certain amount for too long; it does the same.
But it won't happen.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723171#Comment_2723171
Ok... but those "whiny survivors" who complain about face camping do it for a reason. Its not like were trying to make the game unplayable for killer mains or anything. Obviously there would need to be some kind of proof provided before anything is done if they ever recognized it as reportable. You shouldn't want to uninstall the game over this if its done fairly. Don't you think face camping might make survivor mains want to uninstall the game too? It sure has for me. I have stopped playing this game a lot in the past few months over toxic killers. Toxic play styles is the most frustrating thing about this game for me. This is a problem with the community and players of this game. Not everyone does it, but those that do have done it enough to bring light to the issue and make aware that it is in fact a problem in this game.
'Ok... but those "whiny survivors" who complain about face camping do it for a reason'
No, no they don't. You missed the part where I've been accused of 'proxy facecamping' by Survivors too stupid to crouch over my Hag traps, I guess? Proxy facecamping. Which means I somehow facecamped while not being near the hook. Literally impossible.
I'll give another story, again as Hag:
I DO NOT put my traps near the hook. I find that cheap. I always put them in obvious chokepoints. Like where the pallets usually are. If Survivors would crouch-walk for 3 bloody seconds; they would be fine. I did NOT stop moving the entire match. I never stayed within 30 meters of a hook after hooking someone. In short; I never camped.
This team would NOT crouch walk, and did not have flashlights, and set off every trap. As I was downing the final survivor, literally less than a second after I hit him; he DC'd. He had his hand on his modem cord or something. He was READY to DC. But he was in the end-game chat afterwards with a 'Campers don't deserve a 4K!' I assume he proceeded to pat himself on the back for his wit while wiping the dribble off his chin with his baby bib.
Once again; I did not camp. My traps were obvious. Even if they were not obvious; you'd think the team would have learned after the first 3 times they went through a chokepoint & triggered one.
But, of course; if was all my fault. I was a filthy camper because Survivors said I was a filthy camper; reality & facts be damned.
Those are the type of people who would abuse reports for camping; Whiny Survivors incapable of admitting THEY made mistakes. It's always the Killer's fault. It's always <insert tactic they claim is 'OP'> fault. It's never them being out-played or stupid.
I've been called a camper when I never camped.
I've been called a tunneler because I found the unhooked Survivor 2 minutes after he was unhooked, because he decided to pop a gen before healing, and decided I was not allowed to ever hit him before he healed up. If he did not heal; I was apparently supposed to ignore him while he popped gens.
I've been called a Slugger by Survivors using that perk that mutes grunts of pain. Then I have to chase off 2 Survivors going to flashy-saves, and can't find the mute Survivor because he crawled into a corner. But it's my fault he crawled away in order to hide from me.
In short: Whiny, angry Survivors upset they lost should not be able to report Killers for a valid tactic just because their feelings are hurt over losing. Because they will, and do, blame Killers for every misstep they, themselves, make.
Suck it up if you get camped, because they day camping of any kind becomes reportable is the day Killers are reported for BS just for winning.
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No. This would allow non-cheaters to just DC whenever they wanted. Matches would never complete because everyone would have an excuse to ragequit for free.
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@ChurchofPig said:
Can they? Of course they can.
Will they? Depends, what their definition of "fix" is
'To fix the Ghostface not being revealed when looked at, we increased the size of that hitbox by 500%. It's now the size of one of the trucks on Autohaven, and can be activated through walls when it clips. We feel this balances Ghostface perfectly.' -BHVR 😁
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@Akumakaji said:
Bro, I really like your attitude and sharp wits in the other topics, but I have to ask this, because I am not entirely sure: do you actually own Nemesis and have you played him any amount of time?
When I read up about him, and during my first two games with him, I kinda thought the same and was miffed at how much he sucked. But by game 4 I was landing my tentacle strikes from way further then I would with my fists, and the whip strikes fast, once ylu execute it. 5m, is 1.25s of survivor movement if you stand still. Really, it's a ranged attack that hits fast, rather reliable and needs no reload. Its held in check by needing to hit survivors one extra time. In the entire trial!
Its Nemesis snowball: it starts a bit slow, but once it gets rolling, boi oh boi, do you have an avalanche heading for the poor survivors. Once you are at Infection 3 survivors are utterly at your mercy and you will be mowing them down left and right, with no time for then to get to a window, because your whip will get to then faster.
I am neither a Nemesis main, nor a RE fanboy, but Nemesis is super strong and oppressive once he gets the ball running, and I will defend this position.
And the zombies are just the icing on the cake. He is strong without them, and you can't rely at them at all, but they are free map pressure and every now and then, when you are not sure were to go next, you notice a zombie chasing someone. I get a lot of value out of the zombie radar every game. Not reliable, but even once or twice can easily nudge the game on your favor.
I also wanted to thank you for saying you enjoy my posts, but did not want to edit it, in case it goes for review. 😁
@IWFreak said:
My turn to join the fray!
I personally think that Noomsoos is really fun to play as and against, for the most part. His whip is super satisfying when you hit a survivor with it, and trying to loop him is also really fun, since he can create more 50/50 situations than most killers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2707691#Comment_2707691
As to the points given:
I 100% agree with making his zombies more consistent. Make em stand around gens. Make em (re)spawn around survivors.
Zombies already react to noise notifications l, if I understood correctly. I haven't tested it thoroughly, but using Discordance should make a zombie walk up to those survivors.
I also agree that infecting survivors should interrupt their actions.
But I don't agree with the tentacle being able to hit crouching survivors behind a window or loop. I think this is part of the interesting side of Noomsoos.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723750#Comment_2723750
I have given you one option you can try out for the zombies, use perks that create noise notifications.
RELYING on the zombies to find someone is indeed not the best idea, but it is a really good idea to check them from time to time, cuz you WILL see if they spotted a survivor or not. You don't even need to react to that info, just knowing a survivor was in a general area is HUGE info.
I dont agree with your argument against using the tentacle in chase. Yes, of course, if you can M1, you should M1, cuz it is faster. But the fact that you can use your whip on, over and through windows and pallets is huge. Depending on the loop, there is VERY little a survivor can do. Every loop has basically been made a 50/50. Do they keep running, risking the M1, or drop the pallet, risking a tentacle to the face. The only thing a survivor can do against a good Nemesis in this situation is stunning the killer with the pallet, or pre-dropping it.
And pre-dropping only works against Tier 1 infection. Doing it against a Tier 2 or 3 Nemesis will melt pallets.
Basically, if you use your tentacles correctly, and you actually hit them, you hit survivors much faster than using normal M1 exclusively.
Also, their are a limited amount of vaccines. Once those are used, EVERY survivor is a 2 hit, even with tentacles. That is MASSIVE pressure. It also takes time to get to a vaccine and use it, together with the information the killer gets.
Lastly, yes, the tentacle is really hard to hit in open spaces. It gives you this weird boost in the direction you're walking and I feel like it does something weird with my mouse, maybe...? But you should be using M1 already if you can. I use tentacle strike exclusively on loops and windows, where the survivor can be animation locked, which are ez hits. I have also hit multiple survivors through their Dead Hard with it, cuz for some reason the timing is off, so I hit them as their Dead Hard runs out. This is mostly luck, tho...
What I forgot to mention...:
The time needed to get your tentacle out is NOTHING. If you whip out your tentacle at around the same time a survivor drops/vaults a window or pallet, you can hit them with it before their animation has ended. So if you win the 50/50 mindgames, those are pretty eazy hits too. And these WILL add up!
Thank you for listening to my TED Talk.
As with everyone else; fair enough. It seems my view is indeed the odd one out. I just feel he was nerfed before he saw the light of day, when his zombies were reduced, and it feels they were central to his power, leaving him much weaker than he should have been.
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@Akumakaji said:
Bro, I really like your attitude and sharp wits in the other topics, but I have to ask this, because I am not entirely sure: do you actually own Nemesis and have you played him any amount of time?
When I read up about him, and during my first two games with him, I kinda thought the same and was miffed at how much he sucked. But by game 4 I was landing my tentacle strikes from way further then I would with my fists, and the whip strikes fast, once ylu execute it. 5m, is 1.25s of survivor movement if you stand still. Really, it's a ranged attack that hits fast, rather reliable and needs no reload. Its held in check by needing to hit survivors one extra time. In the entire trial!
Its Nemesis snowball: it starts a bit slow, but once it gets rolling, boi oh boi, do you have an avalanche heading for the poor survivors. Once you are at Infection 3 survivors are utterly at your mercy and you will be mowing them down left and right, with no time for then to get to a window, because your whip will get to then faster.
I am neither a Nemesis main, nor a RE fanboy, but Nemesis is super strong and oppressive once he gets the ball running, and I will defend this position.
And the zombies are just the icing on the cake. He is strong without them, and you can't rely at them at all, but they are free map pressure and every now and then, when you are not sure were to go next, you notice a zombie chasing someone. I get a lot of value out of the zombie radar every game. Not reliable, but even once or twice can easily nudge the game on your favor.
I do have him, yes.
You say it snowballs but they can shut down that snowball with the vaccine.
And the match does not last long enough to except everyone's chases by 30 seconds, each, across 4 people, PLUS rebuild that snowball if they vax themselves.
I respect everyone else's opinions on Nemesis. Maybe he's just not the Killer for me.
But I have to say; other than using hyperbole about the width of his tentacle attack; everything I said is how his power works on paper. Does it sound at all strong when it's plotted down to the numbers?
- Only 0.1 second faster breaking speed.
- His tentacle is the same length as a lunge (albeit faster, so it can hit vaults you'd miss with an M1).
- He extends chases when gen speeds are already a problem. And being Contaminated is not nearly as dangerous as being Asleep or being Infected; You're not suffering slower action speeds, or being Broken, respectively. This means a Survivor can capitalize on the extended time his 3-hit-cheses give without any more danger than just being M1'd, if they just do gens instead of using a vaccine.
- Again; his virus effect lacks the threat of Plague or Freddy, so there's no reason to vaccine up, unlike wanting to Cleanse or Wake Up due to their drawbacks. You're basically being M1-able at a slightly longer range. And that's if you can't dodge! Being Contaminated does NOTHING passively.
And look at how many of his Add-Ons boost the zombies. It's plainly clear that they were meant to play a bigger role, and nothing was re-balanced when they could not.
Most his add-ons don't even affect his tentacle attack. It REALLY feels like zombies were to play a bigger role when more than half his add-ons affect the zombies and (not counting 'gives you more infection points' add-ons) TWO perks affect Contaminating Survivors; one gives you .2 seconds more Hindered, and one gives Obliviousness for 60 seconds.
Ok; THREE: One makes you Undetectable for 15 seconds when destroying a zombie. But this can be done with a punch, too.
So, out of TWENTY perks; 2.5 (Undetectable can be used with a punch) affect the Tentacle.
And 6 affect zombies movement, respawn, or attack in some way.
The other 12 affect mutation rate gain or vaccine use in some way.
Tell me that does not show that the ZOMBIES were supposed to be the draw of his power, before they were nerfed with 0 boosts made to his Tentacle.
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NoED. It's bleeping hilarious to watch Survivors rant at me, even if it never procced.
I once had a match where I got called a 'Noob Killer' for 'relying on NoED'. Except I got the final kill with 1 gen left. NoED never saw use in the match. But apparently I was a noob for even equipping it. 🙃
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Why not just show your teammate's perks when you press tab? You could even mouse over them to get a blurb on what they do, in case they use perks you don't know the images for.
Less clutter on your HUD unless you call it up via the Tab key.
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@KingJaea said:
Ya lots of camping. And sweaty killers. At least at my MMR. I think some of it comes down to killers feeling they have to play that way/ Killers that just want to win and don't care if the game is fun for anyone else.
Why should the Killer care about your fun over his attempt to win? Do you care about his? Do you slow down on gens if you have popped 3 and he has 0 hooks?
This is seriously the only game I've ever played where one side thinks 'You don't care about my fun!' is a valid statement to make to his opponent.
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@NOEDENJOYER said:
Yup, it's a game-breaking bug but they won't fix it because it affects killers and not survivors.
Remember when Enduring was bugged to affect DS, making the perk practically useless and tunnelling unstoppable? Fixed ASAP.
A bug where slugging is isn't viable? zzzz
Remember how they changed the stun duration of DS to counter Enduring, and then made enduring not affect DS without changing the stun duration back? Over two years ago?
They really just ignore anything that helps Survivors.
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@Goreh0wl said:
Is their "balance department" undermanned, underpaid or down right inexperience to address this?
Maybe they don't know how to do it...
Otherwise I would have a few things to say about their moral compass.
Nah, it's just because it helps Survivors, so they don't care.
Imagine if a Killer's TR randomly disappeared for the entire match; that would be patched within a day, tops. 🙃
Actually, that DID happen for a bit, at one time. How long did it take for them to fix it?
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I canmp at times because I know, the second that Survivor is free, I'm going to hear Circle Of OPealing pop, and he's going to be healed in 0.000000000000000045 seconds.
And now I have to spend time finding the totem, because anyone I hit will be able to literally stop behind a pre-dropped pallet and, using a medkit, self-heal before I can spend the 2.6 seconds breaking the pallet.
So blame Circle of OPealing; Killers basically can't win if it's in play, so we have to secure the kill instead of letting Survivors get infinite turbo-heals with a totem they can infinitely replace. (Thanks BHVR, for giving Survivors better totem perks than Killers! Really shows your priority! 🤡 )
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@WesCravenFan said:
We are actually complaining about Ghostface? Seriously?
He is one of the most easily ruined M1 killers in the game. You can literally just expose him by looking over your shoulder and then his entire kit gets shut off.
Actually, if you read OP's post, he's complaining about how buggy the revealing mechanic is.
And, even though I'm a MASSIVE Survivor main; I agree. It needs to be fixed.
It's just sad fixing it will render him trash. 😁
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This has been a bug for a long while. But since it benefits Survivors, BHVR is 'looking into it'. 🤡
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723724#Comment_2723724
I already mentioned the built in cross map pressure (which idk about your matches but in mine, the zombies always end up in my way on loops or near critical gens.
On top of that, Nemesis can constantly see the zombies and when zombies are chasing someone, Nemesis can see the change in the zombies walking animation which also means he has built in tracking 2nd to the Doc.
His tentacle destroys pallets AND can hit over obstacles which makes looping him very difficult
'I already mentioned the built in cross map pressure (which idk about your matches but in mine, the zombies always end up in my way on loops or near critical gens.'
Not for me. 9 times out of 10, they stand in one place and pick their noses. Or walk into a large rock.
'On top of that, Nemesis can constantly see the zombies and when zombies are chasing someone, Nemesis can see the change in the zombies walking animation which also means he has built in tracking 2nd to the Doc'
That's when they find someone. As I've pointed out; relying on a zombie to find someone is only slightly more reliable than the Spring weather here in Massachusetts.
Hint: There's a reason our motto is 'If you don't like the weather; wait a few minutes'.
'His tentacle destroys pallets AND can hit over obstacles which makes looping him very difficult'
Oh boy! Except for the times it does not. Or the times Survivors insta-juke the pencil-thin hurtbox.
And again; Hitting someone with the tentacle accomplishes nothing except giving Survivors a free speed boost to run to the next loop. Which means I've extended my chase with 0 benefits. Oh wait; my tentacle gets ONE piddly meter longer if I extend chases or slowdown to eat zombies, which means I can extend chases from 3.2 feet further away!
Nemesis does not even get a faster tentacle attack/recovery at higher tiers. He just goes from 95% movespeed to...100% movespeed when charging it. What blazing speed! It's still better to be 115% by not using it, and hit Survivors TWICE with my fist instead of THREE TIMES with my tentacle.
His power does EVERYTHING to make him suck; it slows him down, it does not damage uninfected Survivors, it gives them an 'injured' speed boost, the recovery never changes, it's thin & hard to aim if Survivors aren't as stupid as the AI zombies, and it extends chases.
What are the up-sides to his tentacle? The garbage 5 meter (6 at T3) range? The breaking pallets/doors? Did you know it takes him 2.5 seconds to recover from breaking a pallet/door?
Guess how long it takes to break a pallet/door normally? 2.6 seconds.
That's right; he's 1/1th of a second faster than your average break...Unless you use perks to break pallets faster. Then he's just got nothing.
Also; Lunge attacks go 6 meters; the length of his T3 tentacle. Again; why would I hit with my tentacle and extend a chase, when I can just PUNCH and do a health state?
So I say again; To me, Nemesis is utter garbage and his power does everything it can to work against him. It's laughable BHVR put him in the game in such a state, and it's also clear they did it just to cash in on the RE franchise. Once they scaled back the zombies; they stopped caring about how he worked, shoved him out the door, and rolled in the cash he brought in.
He's an M1 Killer because his power has everything against it and nothing FOR it:
- It does not anti-loop
- It actually EXTENDS chases, instead of ending them
- It can't even break doors/pallets faster to any useful amount
- It has no range to speak of (Whoo, 5 to 6 whole meters! Guess what? A lunge attack goes 6 meters!)
- It's hurtbox width is about as narrow as a hummingbird's beak, so it's easy to dodge.
And yeah; I'm a bit angry. I love RE, and Nemesis fights Legion for 'Greatest disappointment in DBD'. Just a big ol' sissy-slapfight for the bottom of the pile.
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@RakimSockem said:
If 99ing exit gates is an issue and people think there should be regression, I'm assuming you all also support Myers and Ghostface stalk regression so they can't just pop their power at will. You also should support Doc madness regression because if I'm not being shocked, why should my madness stay at a certain level. totally unfair.
Yes my counter argument is dumb because the original argument is dumb as well.
A couple of reasons to not fully open a gate
- Killer may have Blood Warden
- You want to search for a possible or confirmed NOED totem before going to save someone on hook
- You want to save a teammate and want to make sure there's enough time to heal everyone and coordinate
Nowhere near the same thing, but you do you.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/301004/how-to-fix-nemesis
So you want to either steal the Plague's gimmick of spreading infection
Or Freddy's gimmick of everyone slowly going to sleep overtime (or for the OGs, the original Doc mechanic where madness built overtime without you being shocked if you were in his terror radius)
How..... original.
Counter proposal, Nemesis is already strong and a pain in the ass to go against due to him having cross map built in pressure from stupid zombies patrolling areas which is ESPECIALLY strong on indoor maps with narrow hallways
I'd rather have a power that works over a power that's original. Who cares of Plague and Freddy have something like it; his power is trash at the moment because it gives players a free speed boost with 0 real damage. They're not even Broken when infected, so you're just adding a 3rd hit when you can down them with 2 punches.
And his zombies are trash. They get stuck on rocks and walls, and don't work 99% of the time. It's common knowledge he was supposed to have more than 2 broken trashbag-AI zombies, but the game could not handle this. So they were scaled back with 0 change made to his power.
Look at how it works; it's obvious the zombies were supposed to be the main infectors, not Nemesis himself. No Killer wants a Killer that extends chases by an extra hit, each. A hit, ight I add, that can be removed with a vaccine. There goes that tentacle you applied to a Survivor! They got a free chase extender AND removed the infection so you can do it all over again! Confetti!
So I don't get what you mean by 'already strong' when relying on his whopping 2 braindead zombies means watching 2 AI wander aimlessly on 80% of the maps and maybe sometimes, possibly, if the stars align, they walk towards a Survivor...Who walks away. Because there were supposed to be more than 2, to make dodging them difficult.
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@Akumakaji said:
I recently got Nemesis and played a few games with him, so I can now give some feedback to this topic.
At first I thought similar to you, and yes, the power at first can feel a bit tedious and cumbersome to use, but it's actually cleverly done.
The infection is important for the long game. You need to hit survivors with your tentacle whip to build up your own infection level. Once you learn how to time and aim the whip, you can hit survivors pretty reliable from some distance and become very lethal in chases. Dropped pallets become little more then short distractions and you can deal damage to survivors from quite a bit away. Once you get to infection level 3 you can dish out the hurt like a whirlwind of destruction and clever survivors will try to keep the vaccines for the endgame, so that you can't attack then with impunity.
So I feel that his power is far from weal or an "I wanna lose" button. The infection stage is the thing that keeps Nemesis power in check.
Your opinion is a fair one, but I can't shake that I'm making the game harder for myself when I tentacle someone.
Instead of hitting someone in 20 seconds, I'm tentacling someone in 20 seconds, now extending the chase without having wounded them, chasing them for another 30 seconds, now tentacling them, which extends the chase ANOTHER 30 seconds, and NOW I've downed them.
Whereas, if I just mindlessly M1: I hit someone in 20 seconds, extend the chase 30 seconds, hit them again, and they're down.
And this happens for every Survivor: even if I'm at Tier 3, my power does not get any stronger. If someone's not infected, it will still take 3 hits to down them via tentacle, instead of 2 hits via punching.
My thought is that Nemesis' power depended on his zombies to bite people, which got scaled back to 2 utterly useless NPCs (The devs had a plan for more zombies bit the game could not handle it), and they, in normal lazy BHVR fashion, never altered his power to compensate for this change. Remember: He had an addon that made zombies spawn in the exit gates. That was CLEARLY meant for more than 2 zombies.
So now you have a Killer who's power relies on HIM hitting people to infect them more than the zombies (instead of relying on the zombies), which just extends chases by 30 seconds per chase, per Survivor. Which can add up to 4 minutes, on average, a map.
In games where gens can fly by in 5-7 minutes.
I'm sorry; his power is just utterly trash to me. He's an M1 Killer because his power actively works against him by extending chases in a game where Killers can't afford to extend chases.
BHVR need to rework him. No Killer should be punished for using their power. But since it's BHVR, and a licensed Killer (meaning any and all changes need to be approved by the IP holder); this will never happen.
Sorry, but to me, Nemesis is just an M1 Killer who's not worth the price of admission. The zombies were changed late in development and his power was never altered to take this into account.
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No. DS is fine.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723640#Comment_2723640
Yeah like killers like Myers can 99 thier power and it’s awful to be on the receiving end of it but it’s not a problem. Way to many people complain about nothing. And now complaints about self unhooking😑
Oh please, like Survivors are any better; whining about White Ward not doing something it's never done.
Or how about the guy who felt Killers should lose BP for slugging?
Oh! Or the guy who said facecamping should be reportable!
But the issues of gen speeds comes up? 'Lol, no.'
Survivors also whine about the lamest crap and demand Killers not be allowed to actually do their intended goal. So don't pretend it's only one sided.
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@clarissamjarrett said:
That’s stupid? Why would they change that?
Because old hatch as a skill-less 'I win' even for 1-3 Survivors that the Killer could do almost nothing about. And that lead to the following:
- Survivors would sacrifice themselves on hook to give their SWF buddies the hatch
- The hatch spawning after the 5th gen was done, and 3 people just forming a conga-line out
- Survivors letting other Survivors die while they humped the hatch for an easy exit
All felt unfair for the Killer and, in some cases, the Survivors left to die by someone greedy for a free escape. So it's FINALLY been changed. I just wish they'd get rid of the offerings that let people chose where the hatch spawns.
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While he does need fixing; it's pretty telling of BHVR that his power will be next to useless once fixed.
Think about it; Survivors can look around corners that GF can't. Survivors can look behind themselves while working on gens.
Once he can be reliably revealed; he will never get use out of his stalking ever again. I'm not saying 'Don't fix him'; by all means, fix him. Fix every buggy mechanic, for good or ill.
I'm just saying, don't be surprised when he sucks because Survivors can now reveal him while hiding around a corner, when looking behind themselves, or in the middle of a chase. 😁
I played Ghostface when he released, and I HATED him. Every match, Survivors were revealing me in under 5 seconds. I could never stalk because a Survivor hiding around a corner was 'looking' at me with their psychic third eye (aka; their normal third-person camera). I could NOT get even 1 Survivor in 7 matches to 100% stalk.
And I have a major feeling that is what will happen once he is properly fixed. It's just the built-in problem with a power that is countered by looking at him by players with a 360 degree 3rd person camera.
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Rofl. Whatever. I'm not the one who has to cope with bloodlust not being a hand-holding mechanic.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723387#Comment_2723387
Right, let's pretend bloodlust doesn't exist
Imagine thinking bloodlust is a 'hand holding mechanic' 5 years into the game's life.
It exists to ensure Survivors can't infinite, since they're literally, not supposed to be able too.
But I guess, if some folks scream 'NoED rewards failure' others will scream 'Bloodlust is handholding'. It's like some people don't understand game design and just think 'This prevents me from winning, therefore it's to be shunned'
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Kicking a gen should take 1 frame of animation, just like gen tapping.
I've watched Survivors run past a gen, and it stops sparking. Only by slowing down the footage, did I see the Survivor literally flicker for 1 frame of animation mid-sprint, then keep running.
So if the devs are too lazy to actually make gen tapping take skill or at least time by preventing 1-frame taps; Killers should get the same consideration. If Survivors can 1-frame tap; Killers should be able to 1-frame kick.
But it will never happen. I bet, just by suggesting this, a few Survivors are going to scree into the thread and claim I'm a 'biased Killer main', which seems to be a theme on these forums & had already happened multiple times.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720962#Comment_2720962
Not the entitled killer main post.
Do you just love calling anything and everything that nerfs Survivors or bulls Killers 'entitled Killer main' posts?
You're the type of player that's strangling this game; you want everything on the 'other side' to be as weak as possible, and whip out the personal attacks the second anyone is not asking for Survivor buffs or Killer nerfs.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722334#Comment_2722334
If the Killer wants to start the EGC, they can open the Gates. The EGC should not give the Killer any advantages, it is not another hand-holding mechanic for Killers. And despite that, it is killer-sided, since the Survivors will die in EGC.
The Devs also said multiple times that they were thinking about making the Exit Gates regress, but decided against it. So any further discussion is pretty pointless IMO.
BUT we can change everything into what Killers want (regressing Exit Gates, etc.), in an exchange that Survivors dont die but escape when EGC runs out. And Boom, you wont have 99ing Exit Gates anymore. Sounds great, eh?
We don't need an exchange to change a mechanic that renders another mechanic irrelevant.
Also; no. Survivors should die when EGC ends. The last thing I want is immersed jerks hiding for the entire EGC. Don't know WHERE you got Survivors getting a literal free escape is a good thing from. Otehr than this flawed idea that Survivors always need something in their favor.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723355#Comment_2723355
It's not only removing 4% killer main idea.
I read posts. You're new to the game you'll learn.
Yes, yes. I'm an evil Killer main, out to destroy Survivors.
This is what every Survivor main screams any time anyone says anything that's not 'Survivors are golden gods who should have an I Win button'.
Want to talk about gen speeds? Filthy killer main!
Kobes are basically useless and allow cheating and DC dodging? How dare you, killer main!
Flashlight macros are out of control? Only killer mains say that!
It's the war cry of Survivor mains too scared that their bully simulator will actually be balanced someday.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723316#Comment_2723316
BHVR should hire you for buffing killers and nerfing survivors.
In one day you will bury the game.
Oh no! Not your 4% kobe chance! That's SO MUCH against people who exploit it to DC early, and against cheaters who can yeet off the hook with 100% chance!
Removing this 4% chance would completely bury the game! 😨
In case you missed it; my fix is based on the view that people cheating (script-babies who can yeet off the hook infinitely), and people who use it to rage-quit without a DC penalty, is more important than a stupid base 4% chance to kobe.
Heaven forbid. Such an idea will bury this game! BURY, I say! We NEED that 4% chance; cheaters and exploiters be darned! 🙃
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Today on "What can we complain about today" we have...
*pulls hand out of hat*
KOBEING! How can we make this into a "devs hate killers" post.
Congrats on trying to force the discussion into an us vs them for absolutely no reason. Have anything useful to say?
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Honestly; Kobeing should be removed:
- Survivors use it to 'DC on hook' faster against maps/Killers/perks they don't like. This is clearly NOT what it was meant for, and is thus an exploit.
- Script-babies can cheat and have a 100% Kobe rate.
It's a paltry 4% chance; just remove it.
No more 'hook DCers' and no more 'infinite Kobe' cheaters.
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@drakonukaris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723235#Comment_2723235
That's a good point, I used to play R6S pretty big time and kinda forgot that you do indeed get punished for leaving a match on casual but if I remember correctly you can still surrender?.
Also with all due respect it doesn't make sense to have casual and ranked and punish players for playing casually on casual. I think it's wrong because that's the entire point of a casual mode. It's for people who want to play for fun or for people who are busy or have a terrible connection and don't want to incur DC penalties, but hey that's just my opinion.
If you (a hypthetical 'you', not you in particular, drakonukaris) have 'a terrible connection'; you should not be playing a game where you have teammates and opponents (depending on if you play Survivor or Killer) who rely on you not dropping to enjoy a full match.
Someone logging into a small-scale PvP-only game, where one drop can upset the game, while they KNOW they drop allot, is being incredibly selfish. They are ruining the game for 4 others people because they want to play, and only what they want matters to them, so the people they are paired with can 'deal with it' when they disconnect due to bad internet.
And that's WHY disconnects need to be in casual games; because no one else is having fun when someone who disconnects every 2 minutes is ruining round after round. Even if it's not ranked.
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@drakonukaris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722879#Comment_2722879
Survivors forfeiting immediately at the start of the game should be absolutely not allowed, but I think if the killer is holding the game hostage or there is a 3 gen with genuinely no hope of repairing or progressing it would be a nice option to have.
I play a lot of Rocket League and that game is toxic asf. Rocket League has a forfeit option that appears after about a minute and a half into the match and it works well, obviously it would have to be longer for DBD.
It's up to the devs though to decide how much time has to pass and what sort of conditions have to be met for you to be allowed to forfeit.
In my opinion this is urgently needed as this game is not being balanced at a reasonable pace and rather seems to get more unbalanced with every new survivor and killer release. I think you have to realize that this game is being turned into something most people don't care for, a sweaty broken mess. This game doesn't work competitively and most matches aren't fair, yet I have to see a casual game with DC penalties and yet I have to see a competitive game without a forfeit option. This in between a casual and competitive game stance ain't working.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723215#Comment_2723215
"We've lost, the Killer doesn't get to kill anyone" is a terrible stance to take.
Having to actually go through with it and put up with a brief bout of boredom for someone else's sake is the pilot thing to do. What if they brought Moris and stuff? It's not exactly far-fetched to see that "quitting when you think you've lost" is going to just steadily rob people of actually getting to... you know, do the thing they're here for.
I also have to agree with @RainehDaze here; Survivors being able to forfeit would just screw Killers out of BP.
BP lost for each chase, hit, pallet break, generator kicked, survivor found, survivor hooked, traps set, traps triggered, stalking done, etc. that he no longer gets to do.
Survivors being able to say 'We're losing; screw the Killer' and vote to end the match would never work in DBD. And what if Killers are losing and want to quit? Do they get to override 4 Survivors? Can Survivors override his vote to forfeit & force him to play the match? If so; why can't the Killer override the Survivors & force THEM to finish the match?
This idea is so skewed towards Survivors screwing over Killers the second they start to lose. It would never work.
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@drakonukaris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722879#Comment_2722879
Survivors forfeiting immediately at the start of the game should be absolutely not allowed, but I think if the killer is holding the game hostage or there is a 3 gen with genuinely no hope of repairing or progressing it would be a nice option to have.
I play a lot of Rocket League and that game is toxic asf. Rocket League has a forfeit option that appears after about a minute and a half into the match and it works well, obviously it would have to be longer for DBD.
It's up to the devs though to decide how much time has to pass and what sort of conditions have to be met for you to be allowed to forfeit.
In my opinion this is urgently needed as this game is not being balanced at a reasonable pace and rather seems to get more unbalanced with every new survivor and killer release. I think you have to realize that this game is being turned into something most people don't care for, a sweaty broken mess. This game doesn't work competitively and most matches aren't fair, yet I have to see a casual game with DC penalties and yet I have to see a competitive game without a forfeit option. This in between a casual and competitive game stance ain't working.
'yet I have to see a casual game with DC penalties'
IIRC: Overwatch will punish you for DCing too much, evne in casual modes.
Rainbow 6: Siege will also punish you for leaving casual matches.
League of Legends also punishes for leaving casual play, IIRC.
Seriously; even casual games punish leaving, because devs don't want babies ruining the game for others.
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@selflessnea said:
I'm pretty sure the cheaters can just stop the egc timer but know that they don't need to
I don't think they can. Some things are client side, some are server side, and some are host side.
I'm not big into the hacking scene, but I'd imagine telling the server to stop the timer for everyone would be next to impossible. At best; they could stop the graphic of the EGC timer going down on their screen, but the server will keep actually counting down.
This is what leads me to believe the end-game-trigger is based on 'SurvivorsAlive <0' instead of any timer; it's a quick, clean way to end a match. But it also leads to problems when a Survivor can cheat infinite health. Which makes me think health-states are client-sided. Thus, the server asks what health the Survivor is at, and the Survivor says 'healthy'.
I could be way off; I'm not even skilled enough in coding to have a job. But this just feels like it's the right idea.
@AnneBonny said:
i think dc penalties shouldn't apply if the egc timer has ended
Yes, this was also in my idea. Turning off DC penalties if the EGC hits 0. I set it to a timer (Say, 30 seconds after EGC hits 0) to prevent any sort of frame-perfect disconnects right at 0.
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They waste a Killer's time, in a game where Killers have to fight and claw for every second needed to kill Survivors. Such great game design. 🙃
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@KateMain86 said:
Face camping is something that simply ruins the game for me and from my experience a lot of other survivor players too. It happened to me again today and that fine thread that still has me attached to this game gets a little thinner every time it happens. A killer standing in front of you to face camp and even worse when they decide to hit you over and over on the hook is simply unsportsmanlike and it needs to be recognized as disrupting normal game play. Its toxic and something needs to be done to greatly discourage it from happening. Proximity camping is toxic too and I don't care what anyone says about that. If it happens in the end game collapse that is one thing but before that is just toxic.
In my opinion the simple solution to this is just to make it reportable with levels of punishment for doing it. The first can be a warning so they know not to do it again. The next can be a 1 day suspension, then 3 day, then a week and then if they still keep doing it then just keep adding time to it. It doesn't have to be a ban so there can always be that chance that they get it and stop doing it. If there is any concern that it would deter people from playing killer or the game then wouldn't that be a good thing to have less killer players doing this? If steps are being taken to address it then isn't it something that is seen as problematic in the game? I do hope something can finally be done soon to put an end to face camping and hopefully other things as well such as tunneling and slugging in hopeless situations for the survivors.
'In my opinion the simple solution to this is just to make it reportable with levels of punishment for doing it. The first can be a warning so they know not to do it again. The next can be a 1 day suspension, then 3 day, then a week and then if they still keep doing it then just keep adding time to it.'
No? Just..no?
There's no set definition to what even face-camping is. Do you know how many BS reports for a Killer 'facecamping' when they were not doing so? Also; do you expect the devs to just take angry-they-lost Survivor's words on it?
Do you know how many times I've had salty Survivors accuse me of 'proxy facecamping' because I put my Hag/Trapper traps NEAR the hook? IE: In obvious chokepoints, not next to the hook itself). Now imagine 'facecamping' becomes reportable; Survivors who lost fair & square would report Killers for facecamping, just as as 'screw you'.
SWFs would group-report. Play Doctor? Reported for facecamping. Used NoED? Reported for facecamping. Managed to down everyone before 3 gens popped? Reported for facecamping.
The day the devs punish a tactic on behalf of whiny Survivors who can't stand losing is the day I uninstall this game, downvote it to oblivion, and never look back. This is a horrible, biased idea based on nothing more than 'I don't like facecamping, thus Killers should be punished so I can feel better'.
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Devs can fix infinite Endgame Collapse pretty easily:
When EGC hits 0, a hidden timer comes into play; It lasts however long the death animation from EGC takes, then forces everyone to the results screen, while giving the Killer the points he would earn from each Survivor still in the match.
It basically adds a new 'game end' trigger, since the current one is based off 'If Survivors Alive <1: End Match' (This is simplified, but you get my point). So Survivors with infinite health prevent the EGC from killing them, which prevents the match from ending.
By adding a NEW timer that just shuts down the match after EGC; this exploit/cheat is bypassed.
And if they want to be REALLY sneaky; they add the ability to quit out of a match 30 seconds after EGC hits 0; so if script-babies manage to dodge around this; Killers can leave without punishment.
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@drakonukaris said:
Seeing as many people are resistant to DC penalties being re-introduced, despite it making only a small difference as survivors will kill themselves on hook and killers will go AFK, and ultimately still quite a few will take the penalty and DC anyways.
Just add a forfeit option, much like Scott Jund has suggested, very easy. 3/4 survivors vote forfeit, then the game ends and if killer hasn't got a certain amount of hooks within a certain time limit the killer gets the option to surrender also.
No. I can see it now:
I get a 3 or 4-man SWF; I hook one of them, and they all vote to concede. I now did not get to play. Nor did the 1 SoloQ.
Or it's a 3 or 4-man SWF who don't bring in items, wait for the match to load, and promptly vote to concede, so the Killer does not get BP.
This idea is way too ripe for abuse.