AlwaysInAGoodShape
AlwaysInAGoodShape
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@AetherBytes said:
Can I suggest this, which I posted in another thread:"Perhaps, depending on how fast the gens were done, one exit would be permanently locked (behind the gate, so opening the gate is required to see). Opening one gate regresses the others progress (unless already opened) as fast as the other opens, and both cannot be opening simultaneously (showing by the bar turning a solid red and slowly regressing). This means that SWF can be temporarily blocked if they were too effective, and can cause confusion among split survivors, meaning that instead of needing to kill one you need to release another, you have a chance to catch up."
This is clearly a mechanic against gen-rushing right? Did you mean this as 1 of the 4 topics listed at the bottom of the post?
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Is Mark Desmarais a beacon of hope?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnFD5yAVV_M&feature=youtu.beMark Desmarais correctly applied the principle from Chapter 2, Section 1 for the creation of the upcoming event!
The mechanic used to gain Event-Points (lunar vessels) will have a competitive axis!We are making progress (:
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Great work on that one! I really liked sites that showed the syntax directly by using he "Ignore" syntax. Sadly on the forums the xmp/div/pre don't work for all I know.
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@weirdkid5 said:
I see you using my HTML/Markdown guide to good use ;P (I hope kek)https://pbar.fnal.gov/htmlref.html
(:
Really love HTML/Markdown. It's the best. -
@mimzy630 said:
@AntiJelly said:
I don't even think it's rigged, they just made the algorithm pure RNG. There is a chance we'll never have some perks on the shrine. It needs to be pseudo random, like @AlwaysInAGoodShape said.If it is random, then what a timeline we occupy. Very anomalyous indeed.
Nothing strange about it. The more recent the characters, the less often their perks have appeared.
Some perks see overappearance, some see under appearance and there's no deducable pattern.Thats what you asked for in your OP. Sadly the Devs listened to you and not to me (:
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mimzy630
The data shows exactly that it is truly random.
Depending on when they were released, their perks on average show up less as the pool simultaneously increases.
The most recent killers have their perks on the shrine the least. The oldest killers have their perks on the shrine the most. Everything indicates randomness.
And to be purely theoretical: pure randomness can produce any possible results, meaning that you cannot say that "the data suggests that it is not completely random".
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@JanTheMan said:
Remember it's a 1v4 game not a 1v1 and oh yeah there's 3 other people too.
Because it once was therefore it should be? That's a terrible philosophy. Think of all the bugs we would've kept.
Here is my philosophy: If it creates healthy gameplay we should keep it. It it doesn't, we get rid of it.Being reliant on teammates:
-Your own contribution is less significant; You don't really control your game
-You become more SWF dependant
-Matchmaking problems become exacerbated
-DC'ing becomes a great issueBeing Self-reliant:
-You get rewarded for your skill
-Having bad teammates is less frustrating
-Not having a strict matchmaking system is less of a problem
-Even if there's a DC, no reason to put your controller awayNot even do my changes get rid of teamwork at all, or reasons to play as a team.
As survivors you should have to rely on your teammates for these actions.
In the solo environment, this is the same as suggesting: Your win should be more reliant on RNG.
And to address the "should"; Did Laurie Strode in halloween automatically lose after Michael Myers stabbed her friends? Did she become a victim of Death-Efficiency in the movies? I really doubt she did, and I really doubt she should.
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Then why did you make a post complaining about the shrine? It is already completely random. lol
That is the whole issue. -
@DocOctober said:
And you still expect the devs to read this monstrosity of a thread?Since it covers over 50% of the most prevalent problems in just 1 post, I'd say yes.
We solve: Keeping the game hostage by survivors.
We solve: Gen rushing frustrations on the killers side
We solve: 4k spiral frustration on the survivors side
We solve: The premise for making the Hatch a fair mechanic
We solve: Anger caused by slugging
We solve: Lack of real perk-choice for solo's, by unlocking self-care for everyone and indirectly close part of the Solo vs SWF gap
We solve: Boredom with Hide-And-Seek games
We solve: Significance of the teammate DC problem
We solve: The degree of need for a proper ranking system thanks to self-sufficiencyWith just this tiny of a post for all of that.
Only less prevalent things are not addressed here, like Hex totem spawns, flashlight frustration, etc.
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There is a problem with increasing communication and that is that;
The majority likes the immersed experienced more.
That aside, I really like the Chase HUD and the 95% indicator.
I'd say make their aura yellow at 95%, and make the obsession icon the same, while removing the 2 smaller fingers from the non-obsession. -
I next did a full analysis week-by-week to see if the chance of paid and chance of free perks on the Shrine was proportional to what was expected by statistics.
It isn't. By the results you can quite clearly see it's RNG. Just look at all the newer killers and to the degree that they are new, their perks have appeared less than others.
Make the Shrine of Secrets truly random
Be careful with what you wish for, because this exactly is the problem. You don't want pure randomness. You want a rotation of perks mixed in with some minor randomness.
Similar to games like Heartstone, for every card pack you open there's a chance of getting a legendary. The longer you haven't gotten a legendary, the higher the chance is that you get one. In about every so 50 card packs you open you get a guaranteed legendary.
It's exactly this type of pseudo-randomness that you want.If you want pure randomness than there's a possibility of a perk never appearing (Surveillance), which from a point of randomness isn't a problem, but from a point of your ability to get it, it is. Randomness is just a concept. If it doesn't appear then you didn't really have a "chance" to get it. You just didn't have a chance. There is only 1 universe and you only experience 1 timeline.
If pure randomness produced let say the same 8 perks for the full lifespan of DBD (highly improbably), then this would be absolutely a shame, rendering the Shrine useless.You should ask for Pseudo-Randomness instead.
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While i dont mind the new chest spawn too much for most items its definately a problem that it can drop Skeleton Keys and Dull Keys. Both allow up to your entire team to leave the game early via hatch.
This is not a problem with the fact that you can get them out of chests.
It's more of a problem with the item itself and getting them from blood-webs is even worse. -
Something like this has already been proposed to the Devs. Sadly we haven't heard anything about it since.
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I want to point out 1 mayor problem with completely abandoning "rank". Despite rank not working, matching players based on a seasonal grind still gives some degree of skill-based matching, or at least more so than none.
Since survivors have 4 players and killers have 1;
Killers having 100% power and every survivor having 25% power.With a perfect matchmaking the above would be true, resulting in a 100% vs 100% power distribution.
If there is no matchmaking then if you are a great killer, playing against a great survivor, the chance of that survivor having good teammates is vastly decreased;You'd have 27% (thus 4 of you being stronger than the killer) but the rest of your teammates are: 15%, 17%, 5% resulting in a total of 64%. Despite survivors being the stronger side, due to the lack of any matchmaking, a good killer will nearly always dominate against the survivors.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMfNF8xf8zoA low Maximum sensitivity together with a low FPS. We're highly aware of this issue.
and maybe to ask if anyone knows a way to help counteract this problem in-game somehow.
An increased Hit-Detection range could solve this problem on consoles without having to address the performance of the game;
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You actually bring up some really good points;
You mention that you want to buff killers through something that has to be utilised by the killer and will not damage the already unequal learning curve between killer and survivors at a lower rank.
You mention something that incentivises leaving the hook, thus creating more exciting gameplay for both sides.So I highly agree with both your design philosophy and intentions.
Now here is why I think making PgtW straight up baseline is not a good idea;
in order for PgtW to trigger, you must have hooked someone. This means that this mechanic is significantly stronger on killers that are already stronger as they'll be better at hooking survivors.
Because PgtW does flat out damage with no other variables, it's also utilised better on killers with great map presence. (Typically already strong killers as well).But as our design philosophy and intentions are so similar, it's not surprising that both of us came up with a very similar solution;
The only part that is missing in the PgtW solution is what I believe to make it time-based and not hooked based, meaning that it's utilised by every type of killer equally, and in order for survivors to have a fair chance to deal with such increased regression, that regression should be lowered based on the amount of people alive.
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But I do wish we had more Obsession perks because it's one-sided, if the Survivor has an Obsession perk it's 99% D-Strike
Yes please! You are completely right.
I don't know how people would perceive it (probably negatively), but it could be possible to turn current perks like sprintburst into obsession perks to balance things out. Something as simple as increasing the exhaustion timer for non-obsessions etc.
Since people don't like nerfs the safest way would just be to introduce them as new perks.Regardless new obsession perks are really needed!
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Unless im to innocent to see the faults of this?
If they had 2 totems then there wouldn't be enough if you ran 3 or more hex perks.
We do know that the Draw-A-Line to check if a hex totem spawns in the FOV doesn't really work as you'll still be able to walk right into in.
Truetalent made a statement about it:
Someone's complaint about token based hex perks softly suggested that a Hex Perk should only become a Hex the moment it has started to take effect.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/283400/p1
What could be a solution for the Hex Perk problem is to make them all work like NOED. They only become a Hex the moment they start taking effect. That's when they'll be bound to a dull totem if there is still one on the map.
-Hex Ruin would only turn on the moment someone gets their first skillcheck.
-Hex Lullaby would only turn on when someone gets a skillcheck after the first hook etc.
-Hex: Devour Hope would only turn on the moment you first get your movement speed bonues (or in lower tiers the moment you first insta-down someone. Tier issue is a separate issue with Hex: DH)This would mean that every Hex perk would at least be able to minimal value before being destroyed and that at the start or the first few seconds, you'll rarely ever encounter a Hex totem.
Even in the case of Ruin in the worst possible scenario spawning right next to a Gen and getting your skillcheck the first 5 seconds, will you less frequently encounter a Hex totem then with the system the devs are working on.That's just my 2 cents on the perk issue.
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1 killer following the survivor and the other one walking to the other side of the loop. As that the "dynamic" gameplay we're talking about? Just to make sure.Master said:@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@MasterWell there wont be a navy seal duo of killers every game too. It wont happen frequently that a team of 2 skilled killers do go through the effort of utilising high lvl strategies which would break the chase gameplay.
So its still fine, just like 4 man navy seals are
There doesn't need to be a navy seal due every game. You barely need a brain or proper execution to utilise the broken part about the 2 killer mode, unlike in swf, you do actually still need skill, contrary to popular belief.
There doesn't need to be a navy seal due every game. You barely need a brain or proper execution to utilise the broken part about the SWF coordination, unlike in killermode, you do actually still need skill, contrary to popular belief.
Now lets use some actual arguments instead of just using empty words as you did.
A duo of killers will have to act together dynamically in a chase (assuming this is even the best strategy), they are both two moving targets and have to chase another moving target.Then there is SWF, you have 3 stationary targets and a survivor being chased by the killer. Everything is really predictable and there is no dynamical interaction
I don't know uow long you expect to survive in a 2 killer chase, but let me tell you; the duration is more than halved. -
I think people who believe DBD has a ranking system should play Dota 2 for a month and see if they can manage to reach the higher ranks there as well. Maybe that'll teach them what a ranking system is.
It's really mind-blowing that if so many bad people reach rank 1 and admit not understanding the game fully yet, others still deny this experience, and if not that the facts.
DBD has the most deceitful seasonal grinding system there is.
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I think the reason is:
When you work alone you work at a 100% speed.
When you work together you work at a 90% speed.
With Prove Thyself you get +10% over that 90%
Thus you work at 99% the speed, meaning less than 100, as indicated in red.(multiplication factors in the code: X * 0.9 * 1.1 = 0.99X)
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Apparently some other things were changed, like self-care's item efficiency.
Either they went out of their way to change it or for patch related reasons, they replaced their current scripts with older scripts, which may have allowed for certain secret changes to slip through. -
Dude, you literally agreed that SWF breaks the balance of the game due to its instantaneous, map-wide communication. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.
Yes. I said that a bug is bad, but because the bug barely appears it's not a gamebreaking bug, where as the bug being discussed is gamebreaking.
You keep saying, well the first bug we didn't solve, so why should we fix the 2nd?
I said frequency matters. You denied it.
You thought the gamecrashing bug should be treated the same as the occasional hook animation bug and I keep objecting to that principle.
If I only were to answer your question just for you to get a wrong conclusion out of it, then maybe it does need explanation after all.
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Your post is too long for me to read it in full, so I'll just address this bit.
It's an established fact that SWF breaks the game by providing information that Survivors are not meant to have. To say that my comment should include an argument for that is to say that I should include an argument as to why water is H2O. Some things have already been established a priori. They do not need arguments or proofs every single time you address the subject.As pre-established as that God created the universe? That Zeus is the god of the sky and thunder? I'll skip out on that thought fallacy if you will.
SWF only break the game insofar; Blindness is irrelevant. Dynamic planning (planning in general is available to anyone). Communicating perks after dying (has been eliminated)
Almost all of what actually contributes to the stomps against killers is actually not game-breaking. It's just high level cooperation, achievable through a functional ranking system for solo's as well. -
To answer in the way that you would, I'm dismissing the OP's concerns due to the low frequency of his completely made-up scenario because it's the same argument used to dismiss any and all concerns about SWF.
He names a very specific example to prove it and puts the generalised version above and at the bottom.
You do see how
Unless the devs were to add invincibility and no killer collision after a hit to combat two killers cornering a healthy survivor I cannot fathom how to the devs would balance the gamemode a number of us crave.
is not something very specific or particularly demanding, and how it effectively kills of the chase mechanic as it currently stands, don't you?
I also don't think that his specified example will be the main trouble. But the general principle he mentions after will.
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To ask you a simple question, since you discard that frequency is a factor here:
Is a gamebreaking bug also gamebreaking if it rarely happens?
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because however the game is broken by SWF or a hypothetical KWF has no bearing on the fact that they both break the game if used in certain ways. It also has no bearing on the fact that SWF is used to break the game a lot, often to the detriment of Killers and solo Survivors.
Stating that something IS, doesn't make it true. Maybe your comment should be longer so that it actually included an argument as to why it actually is?
not an essay on why everything everyone knows about SWF is wrong.
Is that really how you handle my TED reference?
OP made a very legit complains about the disfunctionality of having multiple killers and demonstrated it with a specific example. All the factors play a role here; frequency of being abused. Ease of being abused. The degree to which that power directly related to abuse. Everything.
2 killers simply break the chasing mechanics. Pallets don't have a 4 split way where you can jump to. 2 killers means:
Run to the left side of the pallet (where there is a killer) or run to the right side of the pallet (where there is a killer).the fact that SWF is used to break the game a lot
To me it's comical that you still inflate my 2nd comment swf power with the 3rd comment swf power. The 3rd comment discusses a version of SWF power that is barely ever utilised/relevant.
The majority sticks to comment 2 type of strategies, all of which aren't broken and all of which are the ones that the majority complains about.The only time that people actually talk about the broken part about SWF's is when they proposed killer perks to be hidden.
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I am angry you did not include a Dwight in there.
It's aldwight. I'll come up with a way to put him into a sentence at a later point.
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Indeed, it doesn't. Instead, it achieves a much more essential goal in the context of a conversation and/or debate: it answers the question that was asked.
I can't find the questionmark.
The OP reminded us that there are ways the killers can highly abuse the fact that there are 2 killers and mentions a very specific example.
You said that this wouldn't matter because; look at SWF's. (delegitimising his concern)
Then I rebutted and legitimised his concern, preventing it from being ignored.Isn't that the more essential goal?
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The thing is that answering your question doesn't prove a point.
Yeah, but this would just be a small percentage of players, so it's OK.
Nah, this doesn't need addressing. If SWF concerns can be hand-waved away, so can this.
My 2nd comment was explaining why the majority of the SWF power doesn't come from being an SWF but from being customarily matched together. (With explanation and evidence)
The 3rd comment was about the exact part about the "broken" aspect and why the broken aspect of swf rarely comes into fruition. (and again, this side of the broken aspect not to be inflated with the strength discussed in comment 2)
and the 2nd sentence in my 1st comment was the summary of my second comment. the 3rd sentence in my 1st comment was the summary of the 2nd, but you weren't convinced by the summary.
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Well there wont be a navy seal duo of killers every game too. It wont happen frequently that a team of 2 skilled killers do go through the effort of utilising high lvl strategies which would break the chase gameplay.
So its still fine, just like 4 man navy seals are
There doesn't need to be a navy seal due every game. You barely need a brain or proper execution to utilise the broken part about the 2 killer mode, unlike in swf, you do actually still need skill, contrary to popular belief.
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Then the answer is yes. SWF's create very unintended effects, as evidence by perk designs like Hex: The Third Seal.
And this is undeniably problematic.The bonus of this however; It doesn't happen frequently that a team of 4 skilled survivors do go through the effort of utilising high level strategies that would otherwise make the game problematic since they can win normally;
the principle of low effort reigns supreme.Things that get rendered useless, like Hex The Third Seal are also not parts of the core gameplay.
Now with 2 killers the 2 points made above are both false:
It doesn't take high level strategies to just chase the same survivor with 2 killers and second;
This mechanic unlike SWF doesn't break perks like The Third Seal; it breaks the entire chasing mechanic.
That is the point.
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@Orion said:
SWF has instantaneous, map-wide communication, which is almost as good as literal wallhacks. Are you telling me that doesn't break the game?What I'm saying is that more between the power balance between solo's and SWF's can be negated through a real ranking based trust system than you think.
Marth88 already showed us that the power wasn't in the comms.
A lot of the power of SWF has been falsely attributed to the SWF's. Most of that power actually comes from being matched with players of exactly the same skill level;
Currently; let's say that killers have 100% power and 4 survivors need 25% power, meaning that they are all equally skilled.
In DBD's ranking system, there is no rank domain. Everyone that grinds well enough gets to rank 1, meaning it's a pool from bad to highly skilled. So here is what happens:
If you are a really good killer, let's say you get 100%. Now imagine you are a really good survivor against that really good killer, you get 27%.
Because there are more bad survivors and highly skilled survivors in rank 1, your other random teammates are going to be say: 20%, 15%, 17%, resulting in a loss.
SWF's not by the virtue of voice coms, but by the virtue of being in charge of custom matchmaking gain a lot of power through this.
Most of the power of SWF's would be solvable through a functioning ranking system. So there really isn't a gap.
Now here is the difference; a double killer can literally break the chasing concept of the game as the premise of a chasing mechanic is that you have somewhere else to run and thus almost all places at least give you 2 directions. (1 occupied by the killer.)
The power that double killers offers is literally gamebreaking, where as SWF's gameplay is mostly just the result of a functional matchmaking system and not voice coms.
There is no real comparison here.
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@Orion said:
Nah, this doesn't need addressing. If SWF concerns can be hand-waved away, so can this.This is only a fair comparison in rhetoric though. SWF's mainly increase the team's efficiency.
2 Killers on the other-hand break the otherwise chasing dynamics. -
I know this is a troll thread, but I'm still trying to interpret the graph (I have no life, I know), and it really doesn't make sense... So DBD was released in 2016, but according to what little notations are written in the graph, DBD has been around for 10 years.
Because Y explicitly state 'compared to previous year', then the unit of X can be assumed to be year (i.e. each dot represent a year). So the first dot to second dot is the launch to first anniv point (hence why it increases from 0 to 100%) This indicate where the 100% point of the Y axis is, hence the final dot is at about 50%. The problem is that the final dot does not indicate 50% compared to the first year, but 50% compated to the previous year (second to last dot), which make the graph very tedious to interpret... Not to mention, given the non-linear nature of the Y axis, it should've been kept as a scatter plot and not a line graph. Hence, the Y axis should've been something simpler.
I'm way overthinking this...
Haha
To be honest, this type of (economic) graph is something they pester highschool/uni students with.
Since it's a percentage in comparison to the previous period, the decline doesn't actually mean that the playerbase is declining. Neither does it mean that the player-base is increasing at a slower rate.The "official graph" shows that the player-base is growing faster every year, because the % increase of new players is bigger than 0, meaning that "the increase is increasing" as long as Y is higher than 0!
but according to what little notations are written in the graph, DBD has been around for 10 years.
I should've said period instead of year. You got me there! Sharp mind (:
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Did they misjudge how much they could carry when they roofied you?
Don't flood the thread with unrelated comments to the OP please (:
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@azazer said:
Hey didn't you say you were gone in that post a couple hours ago? What are you doing here?Must have been something weird in my drink.
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Ruin is a trash perk anyway. Stop relying on it.
That sounds contradictory.
Honestly, the problem with ruin is mainly that it affects newer player the hardest where as it punishes higher tier players the least.
In a perfect world, this disparity would've been addressed. -
as there is no definitive definition of what being toxic actually is
Toxic:
Playing in Your strategic interests. -
You only derank when your teammates are bad.
Right on the head
I've read your reddit post, but your suggestion wouldn't solve anything.
The problem is really easy to understand;The Emblem system is the win-condition.
A win-condition must be to opposite of the opponent. If X wins, Y loses. This is simply not the case.
Because this isn't the case in DBD, Survivors and Killers are teammates, not opponents.What needs to happen is that the emblem system DOES become opposite of that of their opponents, allowing for 0 type of farming. Everything survivors gain comes at the cost of the killer and vice versa.
Both the killers and survivors have their separate ranking list and are ranked based on how good they perform for their faction.
That is all we would need. It would be impossible for killers to be "OP" or survivors to be "OP", since they are matched against each other during the match, but are ranked relative to the performance of others in their faction in their rank.
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Do address your complaint:
Would allowing a bird to fly away once while not allowing it to return if the player is still in that trigger area solve it?
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There are ultra rate perks.
Looking at you BBQ&Chili. Still waiting for that one in the shrine.
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The Devs said they are creating a system in which they draw lines between every player and every totem to make sure they can't spawn within your vision.
However, someone softly suggested or brought me on the idea;
that they'd only make totems light up THE MOMENT they start to Have an effect.
This would mean that;
Hex: Ruin can only be bound to a dull totem once a skillcheck has appread,
Hex: Lullaby would only turn on after you've hooked someone once and and some received a skillcheck.
Hex: Devour Hope would only turn on the moment it has started to take effect. (tier system for DH needs to be reworked)Perks like NOED would normally only turn on after you've gotten your first exposed hit, but since NOED also grants movement-speed, that perk turns on the moment the generators are powered as usual.
That would be better than the Dev's LOS solution, because in their solution you can still run into a totem 2 seconds later.
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If used properly, camping can work. The Cannibal in that comic is a dumb*ss who camped at the wrong time.
The only real problem with camping is that's it un fun (: but that's a different type of problem.
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If I get you correctly here, you still split up the queue's from a 1v4 to 2 separate queue's but propose that if future game-modes were added, they would rotate on the choice of that second queue?
Hey, if DBD has enough players to maintain 2 separate queue's, then you indeed have a safe gate-way to infinitely more game-modes. Then, more power to it.
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@NekoGamerX said:
lot of new game mode@weirdkid5 I like the idea of solo ranked mode and a team based ranked mode.but I hate ranks in game as a whole @PhantomMask20763 like 2 vs 8 sounds fun but I want a casual /free mode where we could get bloodpoint and just have fun with it no ranking.I'm not sure if DBD can afford to split their audience into several queue's. It might be better not to.
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Boil Over:
While on the killer's shoulder, your struggling effects are increased by 25/50/75%. You obscure the killer's ability to see hooks by 10/12/14 meters. You increase your wiggle speed by 0/0/1%.Would you in any circumstance use this perk?
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Camping when most/if not all people try to get the unhook is the only sane thing to do. I don't blame you;
Camping, Tunneling, Gen Pressuring, Slugging. All of them are situational. It's just your job to utilise them at the right time.
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As someone who has repeatedly hit Rank 1, it doesn't really show skill. Maybe it did before they made Emblems easier to get, but it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to get there.
The problem isn't in how quickly you get your emblems.
The problem is that both you and your opponent can get them at the same time and they aren't opposites of each other.It's like a game of football where both teams can win as long as they score more than 2 goals. It's possible to lose in this system, but this surely isn't a competitive match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXdt8Fv46kw&t=26s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY9DcIMGxMs