APoipleTurtle
APoipleTurtle
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@Dr_Trauts said:
i think the doors progression should decay progressively once the survivors stops opening it. The 3 lights can act as check-points as to when the decay will stop
This is what I would like to see, because I think it forces a more dynamic choice on the survivors at the end of a trial. Though I do think that gate progress should not regress if a survivor is within 2m of the switchbox.
Say a survivor is caught and about to be hooked, but 2 of their teammates remain. Do they:
A: 3-Light (75%) the door and use both survivors to save? The door would only need 5 seconds to be fully opened from 75%, but that gives killer some opportunity to interfere.
B: Open the door and use both survivors to save? They are now vulnerable to Blood Warden plays, but can otherwise focus on pure rescue and escape.
C: 99% the door, but leave one survivor at the switch to prevent it from regressing? Allows the 99% strategy as we know it, but survivors have to coordinate and trade off some manpower for the rescue.
They don't need to be nasty about door regression, but I think adding in a little bit of it would spice up end-of-trial strategies.
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Some quick tips that might help:
-Terror Radius Music becomes more intense when within about 12m of the killer. If it's becoming brash and spooky, but hasn't transitioned over to chase, you're likely close enough to count.
-Stake Out (and Diversion to a lesser degree) is really great for roughly tracking your progress. It gives you 15-second intervals that can help you more accurately guess when you've been near the killer long enough. Works even better on killers with smaller terror radii (but not at all against undetectable killers, who usually suck to do this challenge against anyway).
-Other perks/items that help you roughly track the killer (maybe excluding Object of Obsession) or stay stealthy will help.
-Do everything you can figure out where the killer is and avoid being caught first. If you get chased, be a jerk and try to unload them on some other sap so that you can progress the challenge.
-If the killer is chasing someone else, follow them. It's usually pretty easy to hide right near the killer when they are picking up, transporting, and hooking a survivor. That adds up to a lot of time towards Dwight the Brave, plus you can get the save for free altruism.
-As has been pointed out, The Game is an easy map to do this on. Of course, any of the other stealth-friendly maps (like Swamp, Yamaoka Estate, and Dead Dawg Saloon) are also pretty easy. I managed it on MacMillan (Suffocation Pit). You can try your luck with offerings that increase the fog too. They aren't much, but every little bit helps right?
The hardest part of Dwight the Brave is probably just that you need Dwight. I got lucky that he was one of my more preferred survivors and so actually had some useful perks for this (whereas Kate mostly had zilch for her challenges).
And then just wait til you try to do the killer challenge for getting two gen-grabs in one match...
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...don't push the button so fast. You don't even really need to button mash for the Struggle State, it's more like a rhythmic button press. If you're roughly in time with the flashing prompt on-screen, you should be fine.
Plus you can always re-map whatever button is used to struggle onto something that is more comfortable to "button mash" anyway.
I agree I'd be fine with the struggle state being automated a little more at the cost of its 'immersion', but I don't see it as a high-priority issue.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@Rydog this is an idea to help with an issue that begrudges a lot of players. I struggle to see how it isn't a QOL change, enlighten me?
@APoipleTurtle still gotta contend with the crazy placements on screen. But what would you have Tier2 do to skill-checks instead/differently, since the reverse function has been extended out to base-gameplay in this scenario?
Madness II isn't really about changing skill checks, it just makes erratic skill checks happen more frequently (66% chance over the 33% chance from Tier I). Instead, it is when survivors begin to suffer various hallucinations depending on Doc's add-ons (Fake Doctor's, Illusionary Pallets, Red Stain tricks, and the distant terror radius). Survivors don't hallucinate in Madness I.
Tier II doesn't need to add more skill check effects. It simply increases the frequency of the crazy ones from Tier I and compounds it with the hallucinations. My concern was that you wanted to make survivors "guaranteed to receive reverse skill-checks" while in Madness II. This consistency would make madness skill checks more predictable (even with the zany screen placements) and ultimately be a nerf to the Madness Status Effect. Madness doesn't really need to be made weaker.
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Making Doc's counter-clockwise skillchecks consistent for Madness II would probably be a general nerf to his power. Madness skillchecks are effective only because they are unpredictable. While counter-clockwise skillchecks are a bit of an underused feature, I don't think they should be a base game mechanic. Though the devs could consider implementing perks that would allow other killers to temporarily inflict the Madness status on survivors (maybe even through failing Overcharge skill checks). Only Doc could get the full extent out of Madness, but then other killers could gain light benefits from it too.
I can get behind the "repair skillcheck" for regressing gens. It should not be so easy for survivors to instantly undo gen regression. Though a standard skillcheck is probably enough to prevent this from being done in chase.
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346418#Comment_1346418
Are there exceptions to that? Like exhaustion perks and BBQ?
Exhaustion perks are inherently self-limiting through the status they inflict (Exhaustion). They are intended to be usable roughly once in a chase and otherwise require an extensive cooldown (or failure in the form of being hooked) in order to be used again. Many of these can be run in tandem with other perks to be better though (Lithe + Q&Q and/or Dance with Me, Dead Hard + Resiliance + Spine Chill, or Sprint Burst + Urban Evasion/Fixated, as examples). That does mean potentially sacrificing more perk slots to bolster your limited-use perk, however.
BBQ & Chili is only briefly active after killer hooks a survivor, meaning it can only be used up to 11 times maximum in a trial. There are a LOT of counterplay options to BBQ anyway. It's in a balanced state and mainly popular because of its BP bonus. It doesn't really specifically combo with other perks so much as it combos with killer powers (provided they have the mobility or range to immediately act upon its aura reading).
The only big BIG exceptions that come to mind are DS and Unbreakable. They are both great perks individually, but can unleash some ridiculous levels of self-recovery when thrown together (hence why most survivors do just that). Most other incredibly powerful perks are balanced by being very situational (like Adrenaline and Devour Hope).
Anyway, I'm with the people that say Self Care is balanced as it is now. It is a self-sufficiency perk that is helpful when playing solo survivor (like Deliverance). It gives the benefits of a med-kit while healing a bit slower and being unlimited in use. I don't think it needs an adjustment.
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@PalletsAndHooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1345671#Comment_1345671
For the Ebony, how about 1 possible Mori for each generator completed ?
I'm going to politely refrain from discussing the Ivory or Ebony mori. Even as someone who pretty actively plays both roles (something I apparently have to mention on these forums to not be auto-disqualified as a "Survivor/Killer Main"), I find both to be very disruptive to standard gameplay.
I don't feel like offerings this strong could ever be balanced in a way that both sides will be okay with.
It's why I think they should instead be flat-out replaced with more perks that bring mori's. Perks can be designed with creative counterplay or constraints to balance them out (like how you have to ditch a different useful perk to bring one of these). Mori's have no counter unless the other role has a direct opposite (like hook spacing, fog, and amount of chests). I personally don't like that any offering could be this powerful on its own merit.
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They could just create a similar looking skin INSPIRED by Lara Croft. Zarina is not Lara, plus she's Lebanese-American, not British, with a different established back-story. This outfit would probably be classified as a "derivative work" of the original idea.
Lara herself has had to deal with many supernatural forces across her legacy of games, so I'd say her likeness wouldn't be out of place within the Entity's realms.
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I like the idea of making the Cypress basekit, been kind of hoping that one mori would be granted to the killer at the end of a match for playing well. Though I personally don't like what the mori offerings bring to the game and would rather see them replaced with more perks that awarded them, I do think there should be a base mechanic for earning one mori in any match.
However, might I suggest making it take effect on the last ACTIVE survivor after the EGC has begun? As in, last survivor not sacrificed, killed, escaped, or struggling on hook (last survivor who has any kind of movement control over their character).
Just streamlines the process so that everyone's time doesn't have to be wasted when the penultimate survivor is struggling and the final survivor has been caught (and both are otherwise doomed). Plus the possibility of this reward only occurring during the EGC would hopefully help to increase killer's incentive to play the hatch game at the end of a winning match. Beat the survivor to the hatch? Congrats, have a mori animation.
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Interesting idea, but I don't think it should cancel out/negate whichever survivor offerings that it paired with.
Most offerings are just for BP gains, and most people just run these BP offerings anyway. Imagine getting "Tannised" because you wanted to get 50% more BP in the objective category or something.
I think the idea that it could apply some brief effect to affected survivors (or give some sort early-game benefit to killer like aura reading) could be fun, but I know I would be annoyed if one or both of the roles had some kind of potential 'catch all' negation to my offerings purely because their rarities matched. It's fine with the offerings that are specific opposites to each other (like with hook distances, amount of chests, or fog offerings), but I'd be careful given cancellation powers to offerings with such a broad application through color/rarity.
Basically, I'd say tweak your suggestion to apply whatever effect/ability that you intend, but remove the offering-negation aspect of it. That will only breed frustration.
Also, just a thought, but what happens if you use a Tannis Root and none of the survivors burn offerings (or none match)? Does it just go to waste like fog offerings do on The Game? Or would it affect a survivor (or survivors) at random?
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This all stems back to a wording issue on these achievements.
-Survivors have only ever had to "escape with X while using their three personal perks".
-Killers have always had to achieve "merciless victory with their three personal perks".
The problem is that the definition of a "merciless victory" has changed. Where it used to just mean the killer successfully sacrificed all four survivors, it now means the killer has to double-pip (which is roughly equivalent to earning 4 iridescent emblems in one match).
I believe for them to rework these achievements would require doing some extensive coordination with Steam, Microsoft, Sony, etc, which will all have varying degrees of difficulty. As an alternative, it might be easier for them to simply change the victory definitions:
*Make "Merciless Killer" a post-match bonus earned for sacrificing (not just killing) four survivors in one Trial. Then replace it's former double-pip victory condition with a new title (maybe like "Devout Disciple" or something cheesily evil-sounding). Killers' would get their old Adept requirements back without utterly breaking these achievements (or the game itself, hopefully).
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New chapters with two characters are usually about $8-$10 in the US.
Each individual character costs about $5, but the "chapter bundle" usually saves you about $1 per character.
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If the Entity doesn't progress, then facecamping will become an even more literal hostage situation. Will probably result in more survivors sacrificing themselves just to go find a different match where they'll actually get to play the game, which then screws their team.
Another problem with this is that survivors would no longer be punished for looping near their hooked teammates (it would actually become more beneficial to do so due to stopping the sacrifice from progressing).
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I agree, using some sort of sacrifice animation for DC's would balance out this tactic. The remaining survivor doesn't get an instant hatch escape, but also isn't unfairly punished if some random decides to tactical disconnect for them (or just straight-up rage quits).
Killer gets the advantage of being able to immediately hunt for the last survivor during the animation, but also isn't necessarily guaranteed a free 4th kill because of a penultimate DC.
Basically, it makes the game progress as though the second-to-last survivor was sacrificed on hook, which is probably the most mutually fair way for this scenario to play out.
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If it ever did work with NOED, then I assure you it was a bug. Corrupt Purge is considered a special attack. The one-shot potential of the Exposed status effect that NOED enacts is only realized through the killers' basic attacks.
Other perks that "Expose" survivors (Make Your Choice, Haunted Grounds, Devour Hope, etc) operate under this same restriction.
So no, Corrupt Purge does not, and was not, intended to benefit from the effects of NOED. Same as with any other attacks inflicted from killer powers (like Huntress Hatchets or Demogorgon's Shred).
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Minor nitpick, but does this character have to be a Wendigo? We already have this mythical archetype in DbD (Hag).
Despite the fact that it got its name from the Dungeons and Dragons monster, the Demogorgon also fits quite closely with many of the more contemporary takes on the Wendigo, despite it never having been human.
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I'd actually made a similar post about this a week or two back, so I'm onboard with adding in first person perspectives for the mori's that are camera locked. I really want to get the dynamic (killer vs survivor) perspectives of these animations back. For me personally, it's jarring to be forced outside my character when doing a mori (not that I really use the offerings much) and I'd rather continue to view the animation from my character's view.
For the players who prefer the cinematic nature of these animations in 3rd person, they could just add an option in settings (or somewhere in killer selection) where the player could select their preference. Something as simple as toggling a switch between one option or the other. Meaning, for example, that you could always see Legion's mori in first person or you could always see Trapper's in 3rd person, whichever the player wants.
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Clown has always been a pretty one-dimensional character. Hoping that some of these suggestions may one day make it into his kit, because this would certainly help to remedy that.
However, going this in-depth with updating his power, I also think it would be nice for his "fun" factor to get a boost too. Because quite frankly, his gas just isn't fun to play with or play around.
What I would love to see in this regard is a significant increase in the actual dizzying + hindered effects that intoxicated survivors would suffer from his bottles (your gas traps would still work more like the current gas does), but that the actual cloud would be much smaller and not linger for very long. Maybe with a bonus penalty applied if Clown can actually hit survivors directly with the bottle (possibly also preventing them from vaulting or dropping pallets during the intoxication effect).
Basically, Clown could get more direct benefit out of using his bottles well in chase, but survivors would have more lee-way to try and dodge around them. An increase in what player skill offers for either side in this interaction, which would hopefully make him feel more fun for everyone (in a similar manner to Huntress).
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I think the best reason why mori offerings are bad for the game (even worse than keys and BNPs) is that they are all too likely to lead to survivor players being prematurely "ejected" from a match.
BNP's and Keys can be frustrating to play against as killer for sure, but you do still get to actually PLAY an entire match where they are used. Mori offerings can easily lead to an unlucky survivor getting killed off early after being downed once, especially if their team fails to make a good save or killer feels like tunneling for an easy kill. Waiting a potential 5-10 min in the matchmaking queue just to have your playtime cut short like this is frustrating; your match is basically over after only 1-2 mistakes.
This is why I think the mori offerings should be removed, BUT we should get more perks that can activate them (imagine if a previously-underwhelming perk like Monstrous Shrine was buffed with some kind of mori-bonus). Devour Hope and Rancor are great examples of how to do mori's right: as a REWARD for good play (or getting lucky at the end of a rough match), not a true off-the-bat advantage. If you've gotten to use a mori through either perk, everyone will have had plenty of time to actually play the match which I think makes being killed by these feel far less frustrating (more satisfying as killer, too).
I believe mori's truly get complained about for the same reason that camping and tunneling are viewed so negatively: if a survivor gets put into any kind of "first-hook-death-hook" situation, it means that they have basically been denied the opportunity to continue to even participate in the match after getting caught a single time. It kind of creates the same "perfection is mandatory" idea that killers have previously struggled with (often due to unfair map designs and weak powers). It's an ideal that I think would be better to balance out of the game, rather than push it from one role to another.
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Play With Your Food is fine as it is.
Being able to gain a 5-15% basic speed increase is a strong advantage. Faster killers can patrol more quickly, shorten chases, and make some loops or tile-combos non-viable for survivors. Some killers also have a very easy time building up these stacks or retaining them through insta-down attacks (plus Nemesis/Furtive Chase allow for more Obsession-swapping).
By allowing it to continue to punish mis-plays (missed attacks), survivors have a counterplay to its stacks and killer has an incentive to avoid being baited into bad attacks. It makes skilled and thoughtful decisions an important factor of the perk for both roles. Killer still gets a good advantage, but there is room for either side to outplay the other.
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Some survivors will use it to actively aggravate the killer. They usually want to be chased, and this is an easier way to convince the killer to oblige.
Plus if these survivors can make the killer angry, looping will get easier; angry players have clouded judgement and make worse decisions.
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I don't think they need to do too much to Unbreakable. At the end of the day, it is pretty situational; if killer doesn't slug (or only briefly slugs to scare off altruistic teammates), then it can't be used.
However, I would be okay with it being treated more as a full "One and Done" perk. Ie, if a survivor healed themselves out of the Dying State using Unbreakable's effect, then the perk would completely deactivate (their recovery speed would revert to normal from that point forward).
Basically, this survivor could choose whether to wait for help (or a hook) and retain the enhanced recovery factor for later use, or they could save themselves for the sake of efficiency/convenience, but lose the benefits of this perk for the remainder of the Trial.
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Ironically, anything "Ultra Rare" is actually more common than several Rare/Very Rare (Green/Purple) items due to their scarcity. Survivors only have 4 UR options to possibly get (Skeleton Key, Rainbow Map, BNP, Syringe), and all killers only get 1-3 max (dependent on if they get 0/1/2 UR add-ons). High levels in the bloodweb nearly guarantee 1 UR node per web too. I would argue the Purple Flashlight is a rarer item than anything in the Ultra Rare category. I certainly find it in chests and the Bloodweb less often.
That said, I think Keys could be reworked into a less frustrating item class if their main focus was shifted to their aura reading capability instead of their "open the hatch" gimmick. Would also mean the Broken Key could finally stop being so laughably useless.
I agree that I think mori offerings are rapidly outstaying their welcome. Mori's tend to have a big effect on a Trial, which seems rather powerful for an OFFERING. I hate playing against them as survivor because I could be prematurely tunneled out of a game after a long matchmaking queue. I don't use them much as killer because I like getting BP and drawing out the match (two things their use generally discourages). I just feel rather unsporting running them as killer too (I avoid using NOED outside of challenges for a similar reason). Mori's rewarded through perks are fine though, and I would like to see a few more perks added which could activate them.
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Just throwing this out there as a consideration for improving the "slug" experience, what if an Unbreakable-esque effect was made into a base-game mechanic but EXTREMELY situational?
Basically, a survivor who had recovered to their max (95%) would activate a "Persistence" timer that would tick down from... let's say 60 seconds as a starting point (this is in addition to the recovery time). If this timer managed to run out without the survivor being interacted with by another survivor or the killer, the dying survivor would be able to automatically pick themselves up into the injured state.
HOWEVER, if they were to consider something like this, I think they would also need to look at nerfing Unbreakable a bit too. My suggestion in this regard would simply be to have that perk completely deactivate after its single self-recovery was used (meaning that its enhanced recovery speed would not be in effect after a survivor used it to un-slug themselves through the perk's ability).
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Neat concept, though I'd imagine this would deeply confuse the game's context sensitivity. It will probably struggle to understand whether you want to vault the window or smash it open (like trying to pick up a survivor while facing a locker/vault/pallet).
That said, I wouldn't necessarily be against them restoring some of the old "super-loops" but turn their new doorways into breakable walls that shorten the loop.
Or more importantly: adding breakable sections to the infamous Haddonfield Fences.
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@luvcraft said:
If I feel overwhelmed I give myself a time-out in the corner of the basement, and then when the gens are all done I open the gate for them. Sometimes killers just gotta take some "you" time.
That's just swapping over to the perfectly-legitimate "Chest Defense" strategy. Even if the survivors escape, at least they couldn't steal from your special basement box, right?
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Out of curiosity, a friend and I went and did some experiments with Flashlights, Blinds, and Pallets (since I can't find any official stats in-game or on the wiki). Did several tests using David, Hillbilly, and the Yellow Flashlight (with only battery add-ons) on The Game and took the rough averages.
Did not have enough time to properly test Blinds against Lightborn itself, but hoping to return to it later when we both have the free time. For now, I'm factoring times using its blind-resistance of 80% as listed on the perk.
Based on our results:
It takes approximately 1 second to stun a killer with the base flashlight (not factoring in time needed to aim). About 0.85 seconds with a Purple Flashlight (Moderately/15% more effective, so this makes sense).
Unmodified Flashlight Blinds last for about 2.3 seconds (Yellow) or 2.6 seconds (Purple).
Breaking a pallet takes roughly 2.4-2.5 seconds. The pallet breaks at 2 seconds, but the killer needs a little extra time to revert to their standing position and exit the animation. This animation appears to play out significantly faster from the survivor's perspective than from the killer's (at least in Kill Your Friends).
With Lighborn's extra 80% resistance to being blinded:
-Basic blinds should take ~1.8 seconds (Yellow) or ~1.5 seconds (Purple)
-Killer should recover from blindness after 1.15 seconds (Yellow) or 1.3 seconds (Purple).
*Didn't test anything with the Green Flashlight because it's just a more efficient version of the yellow one with a bit better accuracy.
So in theory, you actually SHOULD be able to blind a killer at a pallet with a flashlight, regardless of if they have Lightborn or not. It's just that the extra time needed to actually aim and begin the blind (especially with the less-accurate purple flashlight) means that you will need to be spot-on with blinding them throughout their ENTIRE pallet-break animation. You could still blind them, but you will lose a lot of distance in the process (especially because they'll almost immediately recover from it).
Like I said, we haven't had time to test the perk itself yet. Could be the "human factor" of aiming flashlights making blinds take too long. Could be that Lightborn is stronger than its values suggest. Or could just be a latency/server issue. Regardless, trying to blind a Lightborn killer at pallets is probably not something you'd want to do in practice.
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Okay, so we're going to nerf a perk that exists to counter a single type of item, isn't particularly popular, and is generally regarded as weak by many killers?
I'm listening, but how would you propose reworking the perk into what you would deem a more balanced state? If you want it changed, please share some suggestions on how you would like to see it adjusted.
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Based on the much earlier information provided to us by Benedict Baker, they retain skills and knowledge learned from earlier trials, but may have some missing pieces to their memories (such as how they get to a certain map or return to the campfire). A lot of survivors and killers also seem to have been somewhat aware of when the Entity claimed them.
To quote him: "Sometimes I escape and sometimes I stare the Entity in the eye and wake up at the never ending fire."
"Is it hope that drives you on? Hoping that the next time will bring your actual death, or hope that the next exit reveals a way back home. I yearn for some kind of escape. Be it death or life."
I'm pretty sure the "slate being wiped clean" is actually the Entity restoring any escaped/sacrificed survivors to a healthy state in preparation for the next Trial. The whole point is that they need to have hope that they can either finally escape (and leave) or help free others from the Entity's Limbo.
Of course, Benedict Baker's exposition has largely been replaced by The Observer with his Archives and some of the really old lore may have been ret-conned a little bit (for example, Huntress is implied to have taken down several WWI-Era German soldiers in her character info to gather her equipment, but this was changed in the Collection to be Russian soldiers. Though they can be seen wearing the German/Prussian Picklehaube helmet in her cinematic).
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@animalmak said:
I wouldn't say bannable because that's extreme for something that's a legit tactic (even if not a good one). And killers already lose points in the Chaser category for doing it.
However, if I'm the survivor on hook, I would love Distraction or Assist BP events if I'm being facecamped. At least give me something if I'm not going to be able to get off the hook.
I think this would be the best immediate course of action. Give the survivor some consolation points for getting camped out of the match to at least partially make up for the fact that they probably only got to play for a small percent of it (and likely helped 2-3 teammates escape for free). It's still not great for the survivor getting sacrificed like this, but it's better than they currently have it.
Something else I'd like in this regard is a BP multiplier/bonus that all survivors receive based on how many of them escaped a trial. The more survivors who are able to escape, the more bonus BP that EVERYONE on the team gets (even if they didn't make it out).
Camping is an available in-game tactic that does not take a match hostage, so it cannot (and will not) become a bannable offense. All the devs can really do is increase the incentives for a killer NOT to camp and to give the hooked survivor a few extra benefits to increase their odds of being able to be unhooked in this situation.
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I'd actually really like for them to make some new maps in existing realms. Personally, I'd love for all 15 currently-existing Realms to eventually reach the 5-map set that MacMillan, Autohaven, and Coldwind Farm do. So far, 1 down (Springwood), 11 to go.
Though I do understand that this could limit creative freedom by forcing the devs to use pre-existing assets/designs/tiles already native to these realms. But it would cut down on that element of the work too...
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Lightborn is sort of the intended counter to flashlights. If you make it no longer work as a hard counter to them, then the perk will have lost most of its value. It's already not a particularly popular perk. I fail to see how crouching would suddenly prevent this perk from working effectively either.
This is one of those things where I'm not really against a change like this, but I also don't feel like there's any point to it. Most survivors are going to be standing or walking while trying to blind a killer; crouching would generally leave them with a worse angle to blind from and/or lower their movement speed.
This feels more like a nerf to Hag, since you don't have to worry about accidentally triggering her traps if you can crouch while flashlight-burning them. Aside from screwing with Hag, Wraith, and Nurse (the killers whose powers are "burn-able"), I can't come up with many situations where I'd want to be crouched while using flashlights.
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Still really hoping they'll make the BP multipliers from BBQ & Chili and We're Gonna Live Forever into base game bonuses. With both of those in place, a decent amount of hooks/altruism would net you double BP on every match. I think it would be the easiest way to raise the average BP gains per match close to the amount you're hoping for.
With the actual BP cap, I feel like it's an arbitrary system. If I understood correctly, the devs don't want players to be able to "instantly max-out" new characters when they are released. Though considering reaching level 50 doesn't even guarantee a player will get the perks they want, I do think it's a cap that should be raised or removed.
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Fun Fact: There is an unused game value for Fatigued Running (you can find it on the official wiki under "Movement Speeds"), so a stamina meter was planned, and later scrapped, as an early mechanic. Looks like much of this fatigue system was probably converted into the Exhaustion status effect (lots of similar functions and timers in place).
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If I was going to dump all the killers into "fun" categories based on my experiences:
Golden Ratio (Usually fun to play and play against)
-Nurse
-Huntress
-Myers (Shape)
-Demogorgon
Average Joe (Fine to play against, but not usually as exciting/interesting as the Golden Ratio killers)
-Hillbilly
-Oni
-Wraith
-Leatherface (Cannibal)
-Trapper
-Pig
Has Potential (Have interesting mechanics/counters, but often feel more frustrating than fun)
-Doctor
-Freddy (Nightmare)
-Hag
-Ghost Face
One-Sided (Fun for killer, not usually fun for survivors)
-Spirit
-Deathslinger
Fun for None (Kind of annoying/boring to play as or against)
-Plague
-Legion
-Clown
This is all my opinion of course. Also not based on the power of the killers, just how fun I've found them to be in practice from either side.
I didn't get to try Pyramid Head on the PTB, but based on what I've seen of him, I'd probably put his current state in the Average Joe or Has Potential categories (from a survivor perspective).
A couple killers were almost in other categories, but wound up where I put them due to certain 'quirks' of their abilities. Freddy would be in One-Sided, but I find his passive awake-v- asleep mechanics to be interesting in spite of his irritating power (which, by the way, was basically stolen from Clown, Hag, and Doc). Ghost Face would be in Average Joe with a shot at Golden Ratio if only his Reveal mechanic felt like it worked with any consistency.
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It's wishful thinking, but this is another one of those things that makes me want a community workshop for DbD.
Imagine if the community had the basic tools to alter character/cosmetic models into new cosmetics that they wanted to see. The art team could select designs they liked (or highly rated ones) and adjust them for inclusion in the game. Basically the same concept as the "design-your-own-cosmetic" contest from 2019, but where dedicated fans could create a more proper 'rough draft' of the cosmetic pieces to help save the devs some time and effort.
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I forget which thread it was, but I had a suggestion about this idea somewhere else. General gist was this:
Gates would have Five Milestones:
-0%
-25% (First light turns on)
-50% (Second light)
-75% (Third light and buzzer) *If the gate ever returns to 75%, the buzzer will re-activate*
-100% (Gate Opens)
If a gate's switch is not being used and a survivor is not within 2m (or ~6ft) of the switchbox, the gate will regress to the previous milestone. For example, a survivor 99%'s the gate and runs off to help a teammate, the gate begins to regress when they leave until it returns to 75% (meaning survivors will need 5 seconds to open the gate).
This would mean survivors going for risky end-game saves have different choices over the optimal "99 the gate and conga-line out" strategy:
-Open the gate and use all remaining survivors to help with the save (but risk perks like Bloodwarden interfering).
-75% the gate and use all remaining survivors to help save (Risk comes from the perk Remember Me and/or the extra time needed to open the gate).
-99% the gate, but leave a survivor to camp the switch, preventing regression (leaving less man-power to help make the save).
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@Saitamfed said:
I do believe that we don't need old insta- heals because they were extremelly powerful, specially on SWF but If we changed the time for the syringe from 16 to 8 seconds that wouldn't be broken. Would it?
I really don't think the time needs to be (or should be) lowered.
There's a reason why they made it take 16 seconds: that's how long a normal heal takes. The syringe is a free heal that occurs passively while the survivor does other things (being chased, doing objectives, healing someone else, etc). Because this time limit is fixed it also counters any perks/add-ons which apply the Mangled status effect.
I've admittedly thought it would be funny if this syringe-heal wasn't cancelled by a successful attack from the killer (where it could potentially revive you by one state during killer's weapon wipe), but that would probably still be too close to being "discount Adrenaline" like this add-on used to be.
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I think it's long been known that Plague has issues with earning BP and Emblems. Her score events related to her power offer very small rewards, and her common strategy of keeping all survivors in a broken status means that she also tends to earn less hits towards Brutality/Malicious (something that the one-shot killers occasionally have trouble with).
I think the brief cooldown she faces on canceling her power is fine; I don't like when killers are able to completely 'fake' the use of their power with no penalty to zone survivors (though the only really irritating cases of this are Deathslinger and sometimes Billy). However, I do think that pressing the button to use Vile/Corrupt Purge at all should automatically charge it to the minimum point where the action would go through, regardless of if the player let go of the button early (though they could cancel it before this like normal). At the very least, I'd like some kind of indicator in the charge bar for the minimum time necessary to not have the power auto-cancel.
Kinda hoping they'll implement something similar for Leatherface's chainsaw, but at the top 25% of his rev bar. I've had so many occasions of trying to use his power just after the bar filled only to have him cancel the Frenzy instead.
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The 5th point in particular is one that I've been fond of. Just have the "Kick Gen" action instantly remove 5% progress (4 seconds of total gen-repair time) per-kick and begin regressing as normal. If survivors keep stopping the regression, killer could actually have a viable choice to keep smacking it to further inflict this repair penalty.
I also know that the 2nd point (Restart-Gen Channel) has become a popular consensus in the community. I've most often seen it suggested that survivors should be forced to complete a skill check to stop regression and continue repairs, but failing the skillcheck would remove more progress (I believe it's about 10% lost per failure), meanining gen-tapping in chases is still possible, but a much riskier choice.
Honestly, I think these are great suggestions and most of them could probably be implemented together to improve killer's quality of life without making things miserable for the survivor team. The only one's that I might not make base mechanics would be your 3rd and 4th suggestions (the 4th could instead be used to improve Brutal Strength and Surge).
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@Scourge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1325817#Comment_1325817
As i said the Axe automatically returns after 20 seconds no matter what happens just in case it gets chucked somewhere, where you can't reach it.
The axe is probably slower has not nessacerly a wieder hitbox but more of a taller one if that makes any sence.
Behavior had a headshot mechanic before, however i will be honest thats the feature i just didn't even agree on with myself if its reasonable or not.
They actually did not. The "headshot" was a bug from early dedicated server tests where her Hatchet hits would accidentally register twice (resulting in an insta-down). There never was any kind of "head" to be hit.
Regardless, I'd leave that part out. If the hitbox is tall instead of wide, the Axe would probably just register this "Headshot" every time it hits due to its height.
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If they were going to change Dying Light again, I'd rather they just had it apply a large global de-buff for X seconds after a survivor is rescued from the hook.
Killer could apply some serious stall power shortly after getting their first hook, and potentially keep stringing it throughout the match if they won chases efficiently. Survivors would have to choose if objectives or the save are more valuable in the moment, and killer would be less incentivized to camp as they want the survivor to be saved. Also achieves a similar late-game limitation as sacrificed/mori'd survivors wouldn't generate the debuff.
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Okay, so what happens when Huntress gets her Axe lodged somewhere she can't reach? Or what if it clears the walls of the map? Is she just screwed with no attack for the remainder of the trial?
How fast does the Axe move? (Since it IS much larger than a hatchet). How big is its hitbox in comparison to her normal power? How far does it penetrate through survivors?
And how are you going to define what counts as a "headshot" when her Axe is nearly as large as a survivor?
No offense, but this just sounds like Iridescent Head with a lot more convoluted steps. I'm sure you intended this as a cool new way to play Huntress that would ideally reward skill, but the reality is that most players would likely just use this as a one-shot melee attack in chase (like how Iri-hatchets are already used). The fact that you could combine the two to gain a ranged one-shot with a potentially massive hitbox and penetrating power would definitely lead to some frustrated survivor mains.
Plus, this would require a lot of Dev time from BHVR. They would need to add in new animations and mechanics for Huntress to be able to do this, as it doesn't adjust her power, it replaces it (with the Axe). Freddy is the only current killer with two powers, but the devs got away with using his old animations (and similar mechanics) between both of them.
Their hitbox models would also have to be changed, as they are currently "Pills" with no "head" for the killer to specifically hit.
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So I have my own opinions on keys (mainly that their primary focus should be on their aura reading and less on opening the hatch), but I'm not against the suggestion you've presented for them here either.
I'm of mixed opinion in regard to these changes for moris though. I will say that I do really like the idea of the extra BP bonus and how the Ebony and Ivory mori's would be adjusted to feel marginally more 'fair'.
However, this new idea for the Cypress mori is the one I don't like. This is not a nerf to this mori by any means. This would be an incredibly useful effect which is actually probably stronger than the Ivory mori as you've laid them both out. My fear with this working like a stronger version of Pyramid Head's "Cage" power is that this could heavily reward tunneling survivors off hooks. You wouldn't have to worry about DS because you aren't picking them up, and Borrowed Time only lasts for 15 seconds at best. Yes you would need to have hooked that survivor twice, but this just feels like it would turn the struggle phase into the true "death hook" of any match where this mori is involved.
But in the end, I still just really don't like the fact that these offerings can have such a drastic impact on the match. Mori's are frowned upon by survivors because they usually result in survivors being ejected from a match early, which feels distinctly "un-fun" after the lengthy matchmaking queues. Killers also tend to treat them as gaining an early advantage, often using them as a tool for easier wins. What I'd prefer is if they were provided as a reward for skilled play. It's why Devour Hope mori's don't bother me; either the killer had to play very well, or the survivors had to play poorly for those to come into effect. At least for me, they don't come off feeling like a cheap or unfair mechanic; especially since they cannot occur until later in a match when everyone has had plenty of time to actually play the game and they are preventable/avoidable, as the totem can always be cleansed.
I personally would like to see the mori offerings removed, but instead gain more killer perks which can award them (this could even be used to add more value to currently-unpopular perks like Monstrous Shrine). I also think it would be fine if they implemented a base-game mechanic where the final functional survivor in a trial (as in, not dead, sacrificed, escaped, or in struggle phase) could be mori'd by the killer for additional sacrifice points, provided the killer achieved a certain score threshold during the match (maybe at least 8 hooks, enough for a Gold Devout emblem). Sort of like a final option to "Finish Him".
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1323811#Comment_1323811
Wait, I thought the whole point of Undetectable was that it does counter survivor aura perks. The change to tier 1 Myers is that he used to be immune to Spine Chill, but after the update to the "Undetectable" status he lost the immunity to Spine Chill. What he gained was zero terror radius, so Myers no longer has to run M&A, but not being immune to Spine Chill anymore does hurt him. It was a nice feature of his tier 1 EW and I miss it.
Edit: Yeah, Undetectable is listed here as preventing the killer from having their aura revealed https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Status_HUD
Undetectable doesn't counter most of the detection perks that survivors have access to (though it does counter Terror Radius perks like Borrowed Time and Stake Out). The one's that don't read auras aren't countered, but in practice I've found that some perks will ignore the supposed "no aura reading" that Undetectable provides (I've noticed this most with Alert, Dark Sense, and Object of Obsession, though it's probably a bug).
It gives the killer is no terror radius and no red stain.
I don't think the status itself needs to be buffed to counter the many perks that survivors can find the killer with, but I do really want for this "your perks can't see me" ability to be restored to Tier I Myers (and Tier II while using Vanity Mirror). It would be a good QoL improvement to help Myers shape up.
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With the Scratched Mirror, you force yourself into playing purely as a stealth/jumpscare killer, Scratched Mirror Myers isn't intended to ever be very capable in a chase. It's part of why add-ons like this make him so unique; they completely change the way he has to play and use his power.
Before they add Bloodlust to his Scratched Mirror kit (which would probably make the Vanity Mirror obsolete), there is a different buff I'd like to see return:
Myers is permanently in the Undetectable status while in EW I. However, he no longer counteracts survivor detection/killer aura perks like he used to before that status was added and implemented (as Undetectable doesn't counter perks). I think the Scratched Mirror (and maybe the Vanity Mirror too) should return this aspect to Myer's wheelhouse. He would be horrid in a chase, but extremely competent at sneaking up on survivors for free hits and grabs. It was this element of Perma-Tier I Myers that could actually make him threatening to go against and fun to play, especially on maps with poor sightlines.
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This is a known issue on Console and PC, though possibly worse on console because our total player population is lower. They are working on a new system for determining rank (through MMR) and will likely make an effort to address this problem once that system is ready to go (not much use in adjusting the current system when it's about to be replaced, after all).
The sooner the better though, because the current matchmaking probably isn't creating a lot of positive experiences for newer players.
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I also wish that a killer kicking the gen would instantly remove a small percentage of its progress before regression begins (probably around 5% lost per kick).
As it currently is, kicking gens is almost never the right choice unless the killer has PGtW active or it's part of a tight-knit 3-gen tactic.
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It's definitely an interesting change to what has long been one of the most pointless survivor perks.
However, it sounds like it would be so incredibly situational to pull off this once-in-a-trial mechanic that I can't imagine most (or any) survivors are going to run it. Deliverance itself is already somewhat situational to use (and significantly easier than this to prep), and I don't see it in play very often.
For proof of this likely outcome, just look to Mettle of Man. Almost no one uses it because of the effort needed to gain enough protection stacks to endure a single extra hit in the trial. That's a very strong ability, but it's clear that the cost of MoM is too high for most survivors.
It's a well laid out idea, but maybe the perk could offer a little bit more to the unhooked survivor (not conditional on them freeing themselves)? Perhaps such as a temporary reduction in grunts of pain and/or a reduction in blood trails on the ground? With that, you could turn it into a survivor QoL perk (like Self-Care) that could situationally have a very useful super-benefit, especially for solo survivors.
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Surge is a great perk idea that feels woefully underwhelming (at least to me).
I do question why Surge only applies an 8% regression on gens, when failed skill checks cause a 10% loss in progress. I don't think it truly needs to do more instant regression than that, but it should really be bumped up to at least match the standard game mechanic.
I'd also like for them to experiment with removing the cooldown from it, as I've never felt that it was a strong enough effect to warrant having one (at least not such a long cooldown).
I've always liked to think of Surge as treading the line between being a gen-stall perk (like Ruin and PGtW) or a gen-detection perk (like Surveillance and Thrilling Tremors); ie, if I down someone and a generator pops, then now I know that somebody else is nearby AND I've caused them to lose some repair progress. Would be awesome for it to get some buffs/QoL improvements to make it a more viable choice, as its ability is certainly more interesting than Pop Goes the Weasel.