AJStyIez
AJStyIez
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
No, it’s even more frustrating because it provides even less information about whether or not you’re getting matched with players at your skill level. And just stop it with the “grades are no indicator of skill” nonsense. The red grade survivors and killers I’ve played with/against are far better (in general) than the low-grade players. There’s absolutely a correlation
Here's a very valuable life lesson:
**Correlation does not imply causation**
Just because people you match with are red grades and happen to be semi-decent doesn't mean that one caused the other. There are literally thousands of DBD players that rotate their Iridecent Grade 1 on a monthly basis with each other simply due to how much they play DBD and how little they invest in any other video games on their free time. A lot of them are somewhat OKAY, they're nothing special and there's a large portion of them that are legitimately dogcrap boosted by a grade system that isn't based on skilled play. I legit feel bad for people that still believe in 2022 that the grades indicate your skill level when the Devs themselves even said on the day it was announced that its meant to reward people based off their monthly play-time, NOT for their skill. Literally the worst players in the world get to Grade 1 now as long as they mostly play DBD for the month or they get a streak of easy matches which is quite common in the SBMM era.
How could you ever take the grade system to heart as an indicator of skill when its virtually impossible for you to 'derank'?? LOL. You can get carried by randoms or friends in a SWF to a certain grade and then go on a 500 game losing streak and you won't get punished for this at all like you would in any other scenario. You will NEVER go from rank 1 back to 2 like you could before..All it takes is a few good players to carry a lobby and the other players will benefit and get free pips as long as they hold 1 button for 1-3 minutes which doesn't require any type of skill-cap.
TLDR: IDK how many times people have to explain this including the Developers themselves, but grades indicate how much you play the game not how good you are
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Yeah I'm sorry but I don't really respect anybody's thoughts on the topic that haven't mastered Nurse themselves but want to sit on the internet saying she's broken. It gets even more laughable when you put into context that base-kit she's average and they want to nerf an entire killer just because of specific addon/perk combinations just like people cried about Spirit instead of just Stridor
If she's so broken then her kill-rate would be the highest in the game, If she's so broken she would have a higher pick rate than Huntress does at the top of the list. If she was so broken Blight and Spirit wouldn't be WIDELY considered S tier right next to her. She's hard to win against when you master her macro/micro, aka players are salty that they can't use the same easy gameplay they'd use against the majority of the roster
This is like me saying the Sniper in Halo is overpowered because if a veteran Sniper picks it up its a guaranteed 5-7 one shot kills...Yeah, that's the trade off for taking the time to gain the experience/skill required to reach that level. I don't understand, people are basically asking to punish players that went out of their way to put themselves on a different level
The real reason is that they're butthurt that they were on vacation-mode when she was disabled and now that she's back in the game they were dunked on by a decent Nurse for a reality check. She's not broken, you guys just felt comfortable while she was away and you're salty you have to readjust to actually going against a killer that entry-level tactics don't work against. I have never struggled to mind-game and outplay old Spirit or Nurse and I have gameplay to back it up.
The same crowd that repeatedly tells players "You're not supposed to 4k 100 percent of your matches" are now salty that they apparently can't escape 100% of their Nurse chases. Make better reads, be more unpredictable
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2858785#Comment_2858785
I mean we had a tournament where Survivors used the best of the best items and perks and same thing for killers and guess what? The kills on average were a bit over 2.
You can write whole paragraphs all you want but killer isnt nearly as hard as you make it out to be and it quite literally is in most cases the killers fault when they end up losing. There are scenarios where the odds are simply stacked against you, such as playing a killer on a bad map specifically for that killer while having perks to counter that specific killer. But this doesnt happen NEARLY as often as people claim.
And wanna know what else happens EVEN less? Facing Survivors who actually take advantage of that and play on that level.
Sure killers can have a hard time, sure you can have a series of bad games. But it aint something exclusive to DbD and it especially isnt something exclusive to killers
Lol your whole point is irrelevant though because look at the example you had to use.. Its funny how there's dozens and dozens of tournaments showing the opposite of everything you said but you conveniently choose the ONE tournament they've done where they allow both sides to use whatever they want. I have a news flash for you but in pubs the majority of people don't have every single perk/addon/offering unlocked on every single character like they do in custom games so that's terrible logic. Your point is a strawman at best and doesn't really speak to anything other than that small sample size in that tournament
Like wow, I never knew that a Spirit running Blossom and MDR on a small map would have the potential to 3-4k even good players! What a shocking discovery, its almost as if you're proving that players need to stack meta in order to be competent against good players and anything less results in a hard fought tie or a L more often than not
If this wasn't true then please provide evidence and logic to explain why even when given access to everything in the game in a private tournament people still leaned towards the strongest characters in the game with the strongest addons/perks. If it was so balanced people would bring yellow addons with Trapper and non-slowdown or oppressive perks 💡
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These are the players that somehow believe they're not boosted and that their teammates are the problem meanwhile they're crawling around with Urban not doing s### the whole game
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I've played both sides for over 4k hours now and I want to see the game improve on both sides
I personally tend to get really irritated by people on the forums, reddit or facebook groups that carry themselves as bigger fans of the game/community than even me (when I have way more experience/playtime than a lot of them) but then they have terribly biased perspectives that leans too far in either direction. I can admit I personally have less respect for the opinions of people that only play Killer or Survivor instead of mastering both which might be harsh on my end. IMO though how can you truly know a game if you only play 50% of it? That doesn't make you a bad person or player but I don't see how you can really debate balance or game health with people that play a lot of both at the medium-highest level.
This makes balance discussions an endless circle of pointlessness because people with limited information and perspectives are trying to speak down on people that have played in tournaments, stream DBD for a living or just have a legitimate amount of experience required to form objective thoughts on the state of the game. On the flipside, there's a lot of disgruntled vets like me that don't fully remember how to put ourselves in the shoes of brand new players that don't have the well of knowledge that we do. We lost touch because we've been around so long that we can't see not everybody knows the history. This forms a roadblock in communication and we gotta do better
I think both sides of the coin (myself included) should do better to bridge the gap and try to make discussions or debates more of a universal thing instead of an echo chamber for either side. If I had to pick which side is a bit more frustrating and harder to work with though I'd say casual/low-skilled players are harder to communicate with
Example: I recently saw a DBD FB group post about how Ghostface is unfair and OP because he can turn his terror radius off. According to the OP and a few dozen commenters he's broken because he can be silent and also one-shot people with his stalk. I explained in an extremely polite way that its more of a lack of experience than him being broken and even left great advice on how to counter him considering I mained him for over a year...
I got met with multiple laugh reacts, taunting and insults from literal rookies that are convinced they know more on the topic and that I'M the one being biased towards Killer because I don't see the issue with him. Its kinda hard to take the community serious when this happens on both sides on a daily basis... This is literally the only PvP community I've seen in my life where people at the lowest rating with less than several hundred hours will legit speak down in nasty ways to players with 2-15,000 hours that have mastered most or all aspects of macro/micro
I don't think we're gods for playing a video game for a long time or mastering it, We're also wrong on a lot of topics too but yeah. I don't see how a community can get anywhere where people at the entry level view themselves as equal to those who have been here from the start 5 years ago to see all the ups and downs. Its kind of insulting in a way, however we also shouldn't forget that newer players should be welcomed and encouraged to get better at their craft so they too can reach the point where they can be considered a vet. We should all do better and I personally have to try harder at being more patient. Its admittedly hard though with some people that are desperate to be a victim or too whiny
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I mean the positivity is dope but remember a forum is specifically designed for people to voice their thoughts on a public platform. Honesty and feedback shouldn't be conflated because simply observing or pointing stuff out isn't necessarily being negative. Also, the majority of posts I see are actually warranted and very quickly disappear the few recent times where good patches were released and BHVR was open/honest with everybody. People aren't mindlessly being negative, they're telling it like it is.
When the game has less bugs and better balance, better communication between the community and the Devs they will see nothing but positive posts covering all the pages. Its happened already in the past, the first 3 pages were nothing but extremely positive with only 3-4 neutral/troll posts
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If he doesn't run this tile against me correctly in our first chase then I already know this game is over, easy money for us
or
Oh no another Bubba with BBQ or Franklins, I'm so shocked... almost as shocked as seeing a Plague with Corrupt Intervention
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2827287#Comment_2827287
"That's how English works"... You mean that's how LANGUAGE works. Of course things change over time including definitions of certain words but I'm not arguing about the phenomenon here.
CAUSATION not correlation.People just sound stupid that's all. It's like the word "#########". People used it wrong and now it's taboo to even use it. Same logic goes for toxic and now greedy. SMH.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2827350#Comment_2827350
"For people like you and the OP that talk about others being rude, biased or projecting subjective thoughts you sure do always come off as a hypocrite"
When have I ever ridiculed or was rude to someone for not agreeing with me? I literally said we'll agree to disagree on this very topic.
"Greeding is any time a player makes a sub-optimal decision for the sake of getting a neglectable set of extra points, being flashy or just for the sake of being bold regardless of the risk it comes with."
That is neither the definition nor is it even an actual word for that matter regarding the word "greeding". That seems like a newly coined term for DBD players. And by the by, I was not "mak[ing] a sub-optimal decision for the sake of getting a neglectable set of extra points" nor was I "being flashy or just for the sake of being bold regardless of the risk it comes with".
I don't get what's so difficult for you to understand.
Here's a definition of the word "altruistic"
"Showing a disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others; unselfish."
Maybe this will clear your mind a little.
There's nothing complex you've said that's hard to understand though so there's no need to keep saying that. Most of your comments have only been personal feelings because you're not really adding any good facts other than playing a human dictionary as if this is a classroom. Its DBD my friend not a dissertation.. Perhaps its your first time being involved in a PvP game's community or modern internet culture but buzzwords and terminology changing is extremely common so this is really a non-debate. You're simply arguing the semantics portion with real life context (for a cartoonish video game) and being sarcastic in an attempt to have a point but you're not really saying anything valuable other than you don't agree with it which respectfully doesn't matter in this convo. Your only talking point is the semantics and being technical just to say 'gotcha!'
I explained like 4 times why its called greeding/greeded/greedy and provided proof that this has been the case for a while as players have used this phrase for over 5 years in DBD. I literally heard Otzdarva say it himself in one of his recent DBD streams for example so I guess he's stupid just like me and the rest of us because we're not being gramatically correct in a video game 😂 My bad Professor please don't tank my grade - Since you're clearly grading our language though I took 2 minutes to research only 1 channel of the many in DBD Discord and found 100 pages worth of comments that talk about greeding (Screenshots above as far back as 2016 above) Idk why you guys speak as if its MY personal opinion when its really an objective observation. If you don't like the terminology for DBD that's fine, but to argue facts with feelings is stupid and so is trying to play professor just for using a word you don't want them to use
It was my fault too because I was talking to both of you at once. You weren't calling people rude that part was for Deklaw; You did call me biased towards Killer though when I'm literally a Survivor main that plays a lot of both sides 😎 Deklaw basically called anybody that doesn't play with the same ideology idiots which is funny because if I called somebody here dogshite for dying while trying to be Superman across the map it would be considered rude. Play how you want, I know I do. I just played 10 matches straight last night with 0 perks or items and still escaped enough to get the Power Moves achievement (8 times with at least 1 full gen done and escape without using anything). I greeded a couple of hooks and got punished, could've easily ran out the doors or used others as bait but I took fatal hits and traded so that my friend could escape. Show me where I'm bias or not understanding
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2827094#Comment_2827094
It's not terrible logic, it's how English works and how things get added to the dictionary in the first place. If enough people within a group use a word to mean something, then that's an acceptable use of the word, and no matter how much people will insist that it shouldn't be used this way. And enough DBD streamers and players will use greed to stand in for risk-taking that it's an understood term within the DBD player base. Will it spread to other games? Did it start in another game? I don't know or really care, but it is what it is.
The point I'm making is that this is a change that has already happened, there's no point fighting it to try and stop linguistic drift. It's going to happen no matter how insistent you are that it's the wrong use of the word. That's what they meant, enough players know what it means that it's not exactly uncommon, if someone says you made a greedy play or whatever in future you know what they mean.
Thank you for pointing out the silliness. They're trying to argue the word greed because it makes them feel bad when its already been labeled as such a long time ago. Its a very weird hill to die on and doesn't change anything
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826263#Comment_2826263
This is so silly. There is nothing greedy about wanting to help another teammate. I do this a lot because I don't like leaving my teammates behind and it sucks getting left to die on hook. It's not being greedy.
"Greeding is any time a player makes a sub-optimal decision for the sake of getting a neglectable set of extra points, being flashy or just for the sake of being bold regardless of the risk it comes with" - Please prove or explain how this is incorrect, I'll wait
You guys are really on a video-game forum using semantics and the technicalities in textbook definitions just to prove a moot point instead of accep
ting that greeding has been around in DBD for years. It doesn't matter what you 'feel', it doesn't change the fact that it's currently the term used to describe the OP's play. You guys are really trying to debate this as the best content creators, tournament players, hundreds of average players use it publicly on a daily basis. Refer to the timestamps below to see how its not new
@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826990#Comment_2826990
Just ignore him you did the right thing. I would love to have you as my teammate. Definitely better than the idiots that leave immediately
For people like you and the OP that talk about others being rude, biased or projecting subjective thoughts you sure do always come off as a hypocrite in the few threads I've seen you going back and forth with people in 😂 'Ignore him, anybody that doesn't think exactly like me and play the same style as me is an idiot for leaving' when in reality that's the smartest decision you can make if you're trying to win. I bet if we called you idiots for forcing a save and then dying that would be called immature though
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826986#Comment_2826986
LMFAO, the very attitude of your statement speaks more volume than your words alone.
You say you provided objective examples? I don't think so. You may THINK you did, but you haven't. That's why I'm struggling here. Your examples are subjective and pretty unlettered if you ask me.
The killer's message is not a problem. I know my mistakes as any responsible players should and I own up to it. The killer had no business whatsoever to lecture regarding my actions though. It was not his place.
THAT's what I was criticizing. Not that the killer was right or wrong.
It was always about his attitude, sweetie. Maybe you missed that.
Nahh I'm pretty confident that I did, there's a reason it was upvoted 5 times and nobody else besides you is questioning me about how altruism at the wrong times is considered greedy. If it was solely about the killer's attitude here then you wouldn't be trying to debate something that the community around you agrees with despite a handful of people claiming its wrong
I already said the killer was an #########, all I said besides that was that it's considered a greedy play by a lot of people to force a save when it can get others killed especially when you have a free win right in front of you. I do it all the time myself, it is what it is. I'm willing to bet a poll would support my stance too on whether or not altruism at the wrong times is greedy. Remember greeding is 'subjective' though the next time your teammate farms you off the hook with no BT and you die immediately afterwards because they don't think its a bad play
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826969#Comment_2826969
"Greeding" is completely subjective.
Your point in and of itself is pretty moot since you project a subjective stance on the matter and can't provide any objective narrative that substantiates that an act of altruism is considered "greedy".
You sound like a very opinionated person already and it is no surprise you side more with the killers than altruistic survivors and can't resonate with us for sharing such values.
There's no point in conversing with people like you who hold no common ground. sorry.
Translation: I'm going to pull the 'you're biased for Killers card' and tell you what you 'sound' like because you don't agree with me even though you're a Survivor main with 4k hours that was mostly spent on playing Survivor at a reasonably high level
I literally provided objective examples so if you struggle to understand still then that's not on me. Clearly the Killer got you bent out of shape because you're still here taking 'greed' as a personal slight to your character when in reality even if they were being an ######### to you they still had a point. Did they have to tell you you messed up and what you should've done? No, but did the Killer lie? No
You secured a free win for yourself and the team, you denied said free win to go across the map for a save with way more risk than reward so you got punished and the Killer got a tie out of it. If you don't care about winning and rather save people that's fine and Iclearly said I'm not judging you for that, I simply explained what greeding is and how its looked at as a greedy play
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826600#Comment_2826600
Yeah, not like you just used to most obviously bad scenario to make your case or anything.
And besides debating a moot point like the OP what exactly is your case? You're really going to sit here and argue that greeding isn't a thing? 😂
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826326#Comment_2826326
Or, and this is just a theory, people may just do what they feel is right. I'm not leaving someone behind if I think I can save them.
Cool story bro. If you wanna get your team snowballed because you 'felt' its right to travel across the map to force a save against a face-camping basement Bubba be my guest. You're free to do so and enjoy it as well, doesn't change the fact that making overly-altruistic plays at bad times so your teammates get punished for it is one of the things in DBD that can be considered greeding
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2826263#Comment_2826263
What constitutes a "greedy" play? There wasn't even a hint of greed in my body when I went for Meg.
If altruism is considered greedy then I have nothing to say anymore.
The point eludes you then even when the Killer and I just explained it to you. You're looking way too deep at this.. Greeding is any time a player makes a sub-optimal decision for the sake of getting a neglectable set of extra points, being flashy or just for the sake of being bold regardless of the risk it comes with. It doesn't make you a bad person or a bad teammate either but its as simple as that. Altruism even by other Survivors has always been looked at as greedy in the wrong scenarios for a long time
Example of Greed: You're running a killer with 5 gens remaining and you go down unnecessarily early because you wanted to loop the safe pallet an extra 2 times which led to a bloodlust...that's greeding a pallet. If you just threw it down as you normally would you would be safe and probably alter the outcome of the game, instead the killer now has a fast first hook and can go pressure your teammates
Example 2 of Greed: A killer slugs a survivor with unbreakable/medkit to go attempt a down on the last survivor thats across the map. Survivor #1 gets up and opens the gate and then takes a protection hit to save the other person. The killer greeded and gets punished for chasing the 4k instead of securing the 3rd kill first
You willingly turned a 1k loss for the killer into a tie because you wanted to force a save across the map with little to no time left and also ignored the risk of BW... you went out of your way in a lose/lose scenario when you already had the W. I do it myself sometimes so I'm not judging you I'm just letting you know what people consider that
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UKJQJYAB61DH/lol.png
[Context: Meg at Exit Gate #1 me at Exit Gate #2. Killer got Meg at Exit Gate 1, I ran to get her.]
I went for a last minute save for Meg, but BW got both of us killed. lol.
I laughed it off and said gg but the killer started going off about us just leaving instead of BMing. I said that I was there to keep my teammates alive and he told me that I was trying to greed a save.
Why have that attitude, killer? Leave the preaching to the pastor and just play the game. haha
Its not BM but that's the epitome of a greedy play so I don't understand why you're surprised at that. If you're both at the gates unharmed and Meg isn't in your party to communicate AND she's across the map then you're being greedy by going to attempt the save when there's barely time left. In reality, a lot of people attempt to save regardless of the scenario, but by technicality the optimal play is to just leave and let him 1k. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're a good teammate, its literally just a greedy play that led to an unnecessary death
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@Thusly_Boned said:
Telling that it's the "it doesn't make a difference" crowd that are in mourning over it being removed.
@[Deleted User] said:
This again? People aren't going to read what you wrote. It's a pointless topic. It doesn't matter how many informative posts are made showing that the advantages are wildly exaggerated. You're going to have a ton of bots saying it "removes all mindgames". Plus, it's going away anyway. Better to just leave it.
It’s funny how anybody against blatant cheating is a ‘bot’ but the people crying over the cheat that supposedly doesn’t make that much of a difference are “good” players with or without it.
If you guys are so great then why are you gaslighting people into thinking they’re bad for not supporting cheaters? It’s not against the law, stretch your Rez for 7 extra FPS all you want but stop acting as if you’re doing it with pure intentions. You’re doing it because it provides advantages, if it didn’t then there would be no reason to cry over it
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This is legit the only PvP game I've ever played in my life where players hold the other side responsible for their personal sense of fun. I struggle to see why tunneling is still Confusing for people to understand especially with the current meta. Is it always 'fun'? No, but so what
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Others will pretend it doesn't exist or they've never experienced it but this has literally costed me kills/pivotal hooks by giving somebody enough distance to get to the next pallet or vault. When I get outplayed fair and square its whatever, but I personally can't help but feel robbed when somebody escapes or gets bailed out from a clear hook because the game decided I can't control my cursor by myself so it wants to
sabotageI mean 'help' me by dragging my weapon into a wall or debris on its own even though I was aiming directly at the survivor -
Isn't it ironic how more people are saying that people will need copium or other excuses when they lose now instead of "Yes, finally a good change. Good job devs!"
I criticize them all the time but this is a good look on their part and I give them credit when they deserve. If you're going out of your way to post about 'stretched res copium' on multiple posts I think its safe to assume you're a stretched user that won't admit it but the bitterness still shows. Its funny how people say it doesn't provide any advantages yet they're so salty over it. If it doesn't provide any advantages or difference then surely you wouldn't feel the need to defend it or comment on it, you'd just play native and be good at the game
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Soon
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812288#Comment_2812288
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812177#Comment_2812177
I'm well aware what his point is. Are you aware of my point? That at the end of the day, the outcome that you expect makes no sense from an algorithmic perspective. And I'm saying this as a professional in the industry for 20+ years.
If you think it makes sense, then please explain it. As yet, no-one has, and I daresay it's because you cannot explain it, and therein is the problem.
To boil it down into logic terms, he's saying X1. I'm saying X->Y (i.e. X leads to Y) and Y is undesireable. He then clarifies with X2. It's the same thing, X->Y. Y is undesireable, and X leads to Y, so how can you advocate for any flavour of X when it leads to Y which you don't want.
You can step to me with any flavour of X, but if it all leads to Y, and you don't want Y, then it's the same problem which you guys are failing to see (whilst at the same time so sure of yourselves that you see everything clearly despite clearly not being able to understand it).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812193#Comment_2812193
If you understood what he said, then it makes sense. His point was that if you are that skilled, you'd be escaping more often and thus your ratings would rise. There's always be anomalous games for whatever reason, but for skilled players that won't buck the trend.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812288#Comment_2812288
What an insightful observation. Did it take both of your brain cells to work that out?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812533#Comment_2812533
The devs don't believe it works? Interesting... because the last update from the devs that I recall was that it works exactly as designed. The escape/death ratio is 50/50 which is exactly the outcome the system was designed to produce.
So please enlighten us to how this isn't working when the numbers demonstrate that it very definitely is?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812554#Comment_2812554
aka "I can't answer your simple question because my own logic makes no sense to me, so I'll look for the first excuse to escape from having to explain myself"
Yup... common trait of the ignorant.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812321#Comment_2812321
The pips only rank how you did in terms of objectives in the game, and has nothing to do with your correlation with your opponent, hence it makes little sense to use them to determine who your opponent should be. Should a 2-pip vs a killer you were expected to escape from the same as a 2-pip vs a killer you were expected to die to be considered the same?
"the Devs themselves in their own quotes over the past 2 years don't even believe that it works but they invested into it so they have to play along to save face."
My guy either you're either being willfully ignorant or you're just that blind to the facts. You guys constantly try to pass this off as people 'not understanding' the formula when the formula has never been the focal point. People aren't upset because they don't understand how it works, they're upset because they waited two years for a 'complex system that will vastly improve everybody's game experience and provide more accurate results than the past prototype' yet we're literally dealing with the same exact matches we already dealt with before. If they were just going to use the SAME exact system they scrapped (Kills/Escapes) after publicly admitting that they scrapped that for being a bad idea then there shouldn't be the world Skill in the name since that's clearly not the metric being tracked.
X1 = Y is not a viable long-term system and by all means continue to justify it despite the majority not supporting what you say. No it objectively doesn't work, check the dwindling player base on steam-charts in the middle of content drops, the thousands of negative messages that pop up in Discord if you search the #gamediscussion channel for SBMM, the hundreds of comments on Facebook and these forums that don't enjoy it, the biggest content creators that don't support the system which includes players sponsored by BHVR themselves..... The title is named SKILL BASED match making and yet the majority of the player base is constantly uploading photo/video/anecdotal evidence to show how people near or at the MMR cap are not as skilled as the rest of the lobby. I guess you also missed the time BHVR was quoted directly saying right here on these very forums that the reason the system was taking long to implement is because they're working hard to make sure it uses multiple metrics unlike their previous prototype. "We had a prototype we used in the past that we didn't feel was accurate. After extensive testing we came to the realization that using Kills and Escapes to rate players led to bad results so we scrapped it". We were told to be patient as the testing day for this new system was coming soon. This was the time period where for the 3 day testing period nobody could see ranks at the end of a lobby, ques were longer than normal and each Killer started with separate values. They're using that same exact system they scrapped right now, so exactly like I said they're doubling back on their own word to save face because they've invested a lot already
If the system isn't leading to an increase in fun, population or overall positive content in the community then no, it objectively doesn't work. Its not hard to make a system that at the minimum accounts for time spent in chase, hooks obtained, downs and gens/totems completed as opposed to just X and Y. These are professionals that get paid very well to do this, perhaps if the work is 'too hard' to pull off then maybe next time don't go public talking about a grand system coming soon that'll fix the issue everybody has. We're in 2022 and I'm still here having to explain to a 'professional' of 20 years that context matters in DBD, a game dominated by RNG... The looper that mind-games tiles accurately for extended durations, gets flashlight saves, unhooks and multiple gens should be rewarded more than the Locker-hugging Dwight that did half a gen and 1 totem. You guys keep arguing this point then act surprised that people are quitting left and right over it
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@Zachcjjj said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812489#Comment_2812489
the only time i have ever even gone thru the effort of using SR was for 1 singular clown game of 700x1080 cause funny tummy
I've never had an issue with people doing whatever the ___ they want, just tell it like it is and own it proudly
If somebody wants to use stretched res I don't mind at all, they should just humbly acknowledge that they're actively abusing an advantage in a casual party game and shouldn't get salty when people point that out or if they have a problem coping with a loss against it
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812109#Comment_2812109
I have yet to see you actively disprove any of my points and explain why, when I've directly addressed my criticisms with the system and why I believe it is fundamentally flawed, quite clearly several times.
Either actually a make a point, disprove one of mine, or get off of my thread.
Logic does not work with people deeply indulged in shilling or being overly-positive. This person clearly believes SBMM is a healthy system that accurately portrays skill and doesn't seem to notice the glaring holes in their own logic and how a binary system is incapable of providing good results in a game where multiple metrics are manipulated by RNG.
There are just people out there that will call you crazy and say that the system is amazing despite the vast majority using statistics and evidence to prove why it doesn't work, the Devs themselves in their own quotes over the past 2 years don't even believe that it works but they invested into it so they have to play along to save face. I just had somebody tell me earlier that Legion is just as strong as any of the "A-Tier" killers and that the characters matter less than the player. Some people just don't get it
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@DoritoHead said:
I recognize that some people are just giving their first impressions, and that's perfectly fine. However, a first impression would be like saying "This killer seems kinda bad/ kinda OP, but I can't be sure yet", not "THIS KILLER IS F TIER FKJSDKJDN"
There are so many strategies, techs, and builds with the killer that are waiting to be discovered. Instantly deciding how good or bad they are isn't a smart thing to be doing.
"But Doritohead, this killer is F tier! (or overpowered) This time it's true, I promise!"
I'm not suggesting that Sadako is either strong or weak. In fact, I don't have any opinion about how strong she is at all, and that's ok. Time will tell if this killer is good or not.
I heavily disagree and I'm sure many people can back me up when I say that this game is not that deep for you guys to keep saying this same thing every single time there's new characters in the PTB. Does it take only 1 match to find out a characters' potential? No, but you guys also try to stretch it as if any feedback is invalid as if it takes 2 years to figure out the truth. Its a casual party game with pretty binary gameplay, its not that deep to analyze. The meta is very transparent and the majority of the time people are actually accurate when ranking characters as they're still fresh.
Perfect example of people in PTB: Trickster is fun but just a weaker Plague. You can stomp babies and down people fast at hooks or short loops but that's it. Mid-tier at best and needs something else to make him viable
You guys: He just came out, you're not using him correctly so I'm sure this will change. Give it time, you can't accurately judge in such a short time
Also You guys 2 months later: Yeah he's pretty weak, mid tier at best. *Agrees with everything people said in the PTB within the first couple of days*
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@Marc_go_solo said:
100% agree with this. There have been several times an early assumption about a killer has been completely overturned; the Blight was one of those who initially was said to be "weak" by some. One day is a poor basis for judgement.
False equivalence and just wrong in general. I hate to break it to you but the Blight on PTB release wasn't the Blight people play today so actually yeah it was a very valid take at that time period. His FOV was extremely low which gave people trouble running tiles correctly and he was even more wonky with his collision than he is still today. Peoples' PTB judgment has actually been accurate for quite a while. People always say this and then 2 months later wind up agreeing with the people that initially ranked them
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I can't believe we finally got rid of an issue that was admittedly considered cheating by BHVR a long time ago and a lot of respected names in the community yet people are still here making these types of comments/threads/videos 🤣 If you're salty that you have to play native and can't use stretched res combined with 19 different filters to help you play better than others with equal or worse hardware in a semi-casual party game then just say that
People be rocking a $3,000 setup vs Nintendo Switch/PS4 players talking about "It doesn't provide that much of an advantage, only a little bit. I do it for the FPS bro" as they make content inflating their skill against players with outdated rigs. Conveniently the two maps impacted the most (Macmilan & Autohaven) are the two focal points of competitive play and the former's Coal Tower variation is widely considered by the general public as the most neutral map you can bring. Sounds like you guys are projecting onto the victims of this type of sweaty play because deep down y'all know you're not going to be pulling off the same plays as consistent and will not be special anymore. You guys are setting up your own excuses but then trying to shame people that have had to deal with this for years
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801202#Comment_2801202
Go see my other thread. I made a modification in the original post just for you.
I'm "slow" now, ooooooh how edgy and cute. Oh look, its another internet warrior that pretends to be nonchalant saying other people are doing too much over a video game even though you were just crying over a mediocre perk that's already been nerfed before and implying that I'm ######### on a different thread you just made. You got so salty that you went and created a thread complaining about Killers right after getting called out in here and then came back to let me know that you edited in an insult at the bottom of it specifically for me 🤣
"ThAt sAyS a LoT aBoUt YoU" - You like an hour ago
I must taste really good for you to still be replying and adjusting your unrelated post to address me specifically out of everybody. Truth hurts 💚 was a good laugh but I don't wanna chat anymore. Take care and practice more so that you'll stop thinking 5 totems with "good teammates" is impossible to do
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801193#Comment_2801193
Being so rude for a video game. That says a lot about you. One piece of advice: tone it down or you'll get banned.
I gave you the same energy you're giving anybody here that disagrees with your blatantly hypocritical stance. Tag a moderator directly and tell them to arrest me then
EDIT: I originally wrote to cry more at the end of that but it appears you already did with your thread from 10 minutes ago continuing to complain about Killers while defending Circle of Healing. Yeah, you're definitely reasonable unlike the AngryKiller guy and definitely not biased at all 👍️
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801156#Comment_2801156
Another one. LMAO. Keep continuing please.
Another what, DBD player that has more common sense than you? Yeah I know, you're still struggling to counter NOED in 2022. I'm a Survivor main, me and my friends don't have these issues so sounds like a low-game IQ problem to me. Do Bones, Play with friends if you don't want to leave the results up to RNG and ######### teammates
You can fake "LMAO" all you want as you sit in your desk chair with a straight face and dorito dust all you want, you're still the pot calling the kettle black
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799707#Comment_2799707
Even with good teammates. Without comms. Survivors have to break five totems. Or break the NOED in endgame, that have more chance to spawn in a good spot. But apparently, it is the survivors that ask for hand holding. LMAO. I'd stop trying to reason with NOED defenders if i were you. They don't reason straight. If they ever change NOED, it'd be as good as DS/ Keys/ Moris reworks; and, oh my god, did it improve my experience of the game.
Do I think NOED is an amazingly entertaining to go against or die to? Hell no, I suck my teeth sometimes or just laugh when I have a good match and then die at the end to it because SoloQ or bad RNG
BUT
If you think its need a nerf though in 2022 after its already been nerfed before into a hex totem (You know the incredibly easy things to break that good players break on a daily basis in both pubs and comp) then I don't know what to tell you except just get better or play with friends that are good at the game or at least have a headset to communicate. Its literally a perk that handicaps you the entire match by forcing you to only play with 3 perks AND it only gains value based on Survivor input.
Totem Spawns are rarely ever THAT hard that you need to nerf an already mediocre perk to compensate for your lack of game sense. The majority of my matches I spawn right next to totems or I naturally pass them on my way to saves/gens/landmarks/while I'm looping. Its also not hard to memorize spawn locations with the exception of like 3 maps out of 30 (RPD, Badham etc). When I play Killer as well people regularly break dulls and hexes at a fast rate unless they're booning which will also happen fast. If totems are really that problematic for you then run Small Game until they add a totem counter or just make better decisions and raise your game IQ. Don't only focus on slamming gens every single match and then cry that a counterable perk wasn't countered
You're making fun of the aggressive Killer guy for being unreasonable but here you are also being unreasonable making excuses for why NOED needs a nerf 😆
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@FrenziedRoach said:
You can run an entire race brilliantly, but stumble in the last lap and end up not finishing and losing the race.
You can pitch a brilliant game, then give up a grand slam and lose the game for your team.
Your team can have control of the ball the entire game, but one or two bad fumbles and you've lost.
Why is the fact that you can play well the entire game but still lose at the end such a hard concept for DBD players to accept? Patrick was 100% right - you people just can't accept it.
Why is the fact that people don't like that SBMM literally begins with 'Skill' but doesn't use the appropriate metrics to track 'skilled' play such a hard concept for DBD shills to accept? Like I get it, I'm a fan of the game myself but can you stop kissing them for one second to see how ridiculous you sound defending Patrick...you know the guy THOUSANDS of people agree on having bad logic and laughable quotes on MMR? The guy that compared his asymmetrical sweaty-casual PvP game to Hockey even though its a terrible analogy? The guy that says the system is working fine despite Fog Whisperers, the biggest content creators AND the majority of Discord/Forum/Group users publicly disagreeing with this?
You people with rose-tinted glasses keep using the same recycled angle to act as if you're smarter than others when in reality its YOU guys who don't comprehend. Nobody cares about how the system works, its not a complex formula and its never been the point of discussion surrounding SBMM because it was easily understood the first time many months ago. The entire point the community makes is that the system doesn't perform well in this game as the evidence shows (Wanna argue that too? Its easy to prove) and that basing your "SKILL-Based Matchmaking" in an asymmetrical game off of binary end-game results with ZERO context easily makes for one of the worst ranking systems in any PvP game available.
Lets break this down for the 10000000th time since you people can't accept this:
Patrick's Logic: Emblems don't matter. Map locations don't matter. Time spent in chase/trial doesn't matter for either side. Kiting the killer successfully for extended durations doesn't matter, Skill shots with your killer ability don't matter. None of the information in the course of a trial is valuable at all except the end-result. A Nurse who struggles all game with Lethal Blinks in chase but secures 1 hook at 0 gens and then facecamps for the 1k is more 'SKILLED' than a Trapper who wins their mind-games to land hits, ends chases at a good rate all game while landing Traps but gets 8/12 hooks in a 0k.
If the above example makes any sense to you at all even without further context then there's nothing else to say other than people like you who enable this system are the reason players have been quitting and logging in less. Its okay to support stuff. Its not okay or healthy to engage in toxic positivity where no matter how blatantly bad something is you're going to parade it around as if it's still making perfect sense
Am I still a player of DBD and a fan? Yeah. Do I think the developers are horrible people and that this is the worst game ever created? No. Does SBMM suck objectively AND subjectively? Clearly, no debate
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765001#Comment_2765001
So, first of all, "title" is fully irrelevant. I never used that word, the concept of a title never came up in my argument, and so I'm going to ignore it. It's not about what title you hold, it's about what actual inherent insight you have, those are two very different things.
Second, I never said anything about ignoring them, and I never implied no individual high-level player would know what they're talking about. I'm saying that there's no inherent reason to assume that someone who plays this game for a living knows more about the specifics of, to use this example again even though this is a generalised topic, implementing a matchmaking system than someone who has only played a handful of games but has good insight- and especially no reason to assume they'd know better than people with experience in actual game development.
Not just this dev team, to be clear, but experience with game design in general.
There is absolutely no special trait that people who play this game for a living actually have for this. They're good at analysing what's in place right now, might have some good insight on what's broken, and are excellent at providing feedback for the higher levels of play to complement the kind of feedback you'd get from forums and other social media since that's more likely to be low- or if not actively of the lowest tier, certainly lower than a streamer.
And, finally, the most important part: I never said that what they're doing is working out. I'm saying that they're already doing what they should be regarding listening to various people. Clearly, the problem comes from somewhere else, because they clearly already have the web of feedback they'd need.
Just seems like you're playing semantics for the sake of disregarding what I said while at the same time agreeing with me. Why are you acting like just because you didn't spell out the word title that you weren't directly talking about peoples' titles???? You said word for word
People who play the game for a living don't have any inherent insight into the realities of game development on the managerial, technical, social, or resource level
There is absolutely no special trait that people who play this game for a living actually have for this
Translation: Player = Zero value when it comes to insight on the backend & Developer = Insight and credentials in the backend. You're literally saying that there's no reason to assume they have that level of insight which is irrelevant because one doesn't need to assume anything when people have entire catalogs of work that are public. These aren't people with a reputable name but no face to the name, these are people with entire bodies of work that are public on both Youtube and Twitch. Yes, they actually do have insight into the backend...If they didn't then why would people get removed from the Fog Whisperers program for providing objective feedback? Its because they disagree with the feedback but acknowledge that it holds weight...If it didn't hold weight it would just be disregarded
I'm not saying they know everything or they know better, but I'm saying that titles or jobs don't mean everything in life when it comes to insight or experience. You're acting as if a regular person can't possibly take a better picture than a professional photographer or help the professional choose better angles and edit the images better afterwards...It happens every single day lol. Based off your logic, If ScottJund shares an idea, well there's no way to verify the validity or viability of the idea because he has zero special traits with this category.. yet if the same exact idea gets spoken word for word from a game developer then its now valid and viable..... What is the difference between the two people saying the same exact thing? Their title or role.
Clearly they're not already doing what you said they're already doing because if they were then this thread wouldn't exist because SBMM wouldn't exist in its current form to begin with. Hearing with your ears and reading with your eyes is completely different than actually listening or reading. They aren't actually listening, they're just hearing what people say and not applying it because they're using the same logic that you are. 'They're not the ones sitting in these chairs therefore they don't know enough to help us with these issues'
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@jesterkind said:
The flipside of that argument is that having a thorough understanding of how the game is doesn't automatically translate to knowing best on how it should be changed going forward.
People who play the game for a living don't have any inherent insight into the realities of game development on the managerial, technical, social, or resource level, they're pretty good for theorycrafting or identifying objective flaws (IE, bugs, or truly broken designs) but they have absolutely zero inherent value when it comes to larger things like the best way to implement a better matchmaking system.
What BHVR should be doing is taking their input into account and giving it a little more weight in some scenarios, namely things like feedback on high level balance and any edge case bugs that they'd struggle to catch due to playing the live version of the game less, but not listen to them on everything- which is what I understand they already do.
And how exactly is what they're 'already doing' working out for them again? Lets see, declining population on a monthly basis...comment sections on all of their social media posts making the same point about SBMM, Discord game-discussion and the Forums having thousands of messages all talking about SBMM being bad. This is bad logic and historically this leads to compromised results in multiple sectors of society such as gaming, sports, fashion, music, tech etc. Why would anybody be that arrogant to believe that their title alone makes them above guidance or input from people without that title?
Just because somebody holds a certain title it doesn't make them the best person on planet Earth to handle a task or the most knowledgeable person in the room for every single little thing. Should there be a correlation between comptetence and experience? Sure, but that's not what always happens in reality. You can't possibly believe that a developer knows better about every single aspect of implementing systems than every single player in the world that makes thousands/millions playing these same games when plenty of players are used by other developers in other studios to make sure their systems are good.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to tell somebody they plugged something in the wrong slot. Their system self-admittedly doesn't work properly (Despite what Patrick just said the other day, they've already contradicted themselves multiple times on the same topic) so perhaps they actually do need to listen to these players more. Does that mean the players know how to code and handle back-end for them by themselves? No, but I guarantee you listening to these players on this subject would 100% make the player base happier and the SBMM better received by the community because they're the ones that have purchased and mastered the product. I'll take the advice of somebody that has eaten a dish 5,000 times before I take the advice from the person who cooked it 5,000 times but only tried it themselves 10 times
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You can't say "They're only cosmetics, stop complaining that they're removed because its not a big deal!" while also celebrating or promoting the removal itself as if the same cosmetics are this big magical deal to you when you most likely weren't even involved in the first place. If it isn't such a big deal, why are you protesting a cosmetic that you MIGHT see once every several hundred games?
Bad people will be bad people regardless, therefore punishing thousands of players who have these cosmetics by removing them doesn't do anything to curb this behavior nor does it change the fact that what happened already happened. It doesn't solve the issue, change the past or do anything other than punish innocent customers. This is just virtue signaling and making a spicy permanent decision for temporary kudos that will be forgotten by the people praising this in 2 weeks
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@M1MASTER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734222#Comment_2734222
Yes, and this future Clown buffs will probably come by 2026, just like the 5 years it took for BHVR to change Trapper's base trap capacity from a 1 to 2.
Delusional thinking.
Lmao thank you. That person makes it seem like they do QOL and balance fixes once per month. It took years for them to get rid of the vague wording on items and addons and to give Trapper 1 extra trap to start but don't overreact guys! In 2026 the Clown will get his second rework to address this
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You can't say "They're only cosmetics, stop complaining that they're removed because its not a big deal!" while also celebrating or promoting the removal itself as if the same cosmetics are this big magical deal to you when you most likely weren't even involved in the first place. If it isn't such a big deal, why are you protesting a cosmetic that you MIGHT see once every several hundred games?
The popular argument people use is that nobody should disagree with the removal or else they're just taking it too serious and being immature/entitled. That's heavily ironic considering one can also easily argue that one shouldn't be this offended over a virtual character that they encounter once every 200 matches they play IF that. Should we remove pencils in school because 100 students out of 250,000,000 drew disrespectful pictures of other students in the back of their textbook? They should worry more about petitioning for a more competent reporting/feedback system to handle stuff like this instead of punishing customers that have nothing to do with this
Bad people will be bad people regardless, therefore punishing thousands of players who have these cosmetics by removing them doesn't do anything to curb this behavior nor does it change the fact that what happened already happened. It doesn't solve the issue, change the past or do anything other than punish innocent customers. This is just virtue signaling and making a spicy permanent decision for temporary kudos that will be forgotten by the people praising this in 2 weeks
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Even when paid to play, I don't see how anybody can willingly ignore the terrible decisions they've made. Nemesis audio bug, gen audio bugs that have been broken for like 4 straight patches? Nah we need to focus on the serious issues like Bubba masks and those overpowered Twin addons
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@SonicOffline said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726078#Comment_2726078
Oni can't rev his power up at will. Billy can at least kick the pallet then rev on command.
Oni forces people to heal or get punished by revving his power. Billy can kick the pallet and still succumb to Overheat so he can't really rev his power on command either. This literally proves how Oni is just better than Billy aside from what's already obvious. Billy's power is now so less of a threat that you can use it anytime you want if you can manage Overheat. Oni's Blood Fury is so good that it has to be locked behind a power up mechanic.
A master Billy that can curve is still just Billy, he'll hit a few shots on people that underestimate him to start the match because its hard to use him and most people using him aren't at that level. After that they'll make a small adjustment and continue to abuse windows/vaults.
With Oni people might pre-drop and waste resources early to deny early hits but that only raises the pressure and is another reason why he's better. You can slide off surfaces way easier in Demon Dash and land shots with higher reward because it can hit multiple people! The snowball pressure is way better, really not even close
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Blight now and forever will be the only correct answer on this topic. Artist even being mentioned in the same breath is laughable, its not even close.
What unique or exceptional design features do you see that are worthy of being called the best? As far as most people are concerned, its a character with good lore, good aesthetics and a cool concept. Everything else about her playstyle and counterplay is recycled from the last 4 killers released. There's no unique reads being made, its pretty binary.
She places birds
Survivor runs away through a dead zone or nearby tile
She doesn't land a bird and has to catch up with 115% movement speed for an M1 or
She lands 1 bird but unless she has the addon she most likely won't land another one (Only if the survivor makes a big mistake), most likely they'll just repel in a matter of seconds
Survivor pre-drops the next safe pallet they come across for distance and plays the same way they do to all similar killers on the roster
Cycle continues with stealth, holding shift w, but eventually getting hit either way even if you're a skilled player unless killer decides not to commit
Oppressive 1v1 Killer that still struggles to consistently handle 4 good players at once
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723859#Comment_2723859
Disagree. They changed it for a reason. like I already said, I'm fine with him getting other buffs. They don't need to revert any of the nerfs they gave him.
What a strong argument.
"They made a change, therefore its automatically justified and viable moving forward because it was for a reason".
Just say the obvious, you don't have a real reason why it was a good update.. you just found it unfun to deal with
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@Hannacia said:
Ghosty is one of the weakest killers and you complain about him? I barely even see him anymore because he's just not good.
People can get me out of stealth while not even close by nowdays and people with streched ress can pretty much unstealth me through walls..but yes please make it easier its not easy enough now.
It goes both ways, I mained Ghostface for a long time after his release until I realized that forcing myself to tolerate inconsistent/buggy/weak M1 killers wasn't good for getting better or having fun beyond a certain level of competition. I don't enjoy going against him either anymore because even though I abuse 98% of the Ghostfaces I play against I've also died or given up easy hooks to players that are nowhere near my level thanks to the inconsistency of his reveal.
One play you can reveal him without even trying while doing a gen from far away, the next play you can have a wild-west staredown with him and you'll get exposed even though he's in the center of your screen without you even moving the camera away. Its too inconsistent for both sides and he just needs an entire rework
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I like Otz but like many people pointed out this proves nothing so you should fix your title. Before somebody complains that its a Killer echo chamber I'm a Survivor main so that's not a good strawman to use. The majority of my social media footage and Twitch footage is Survivor, I just happen to play a lot of Killer as well (2924 Kills in total)
Kill rates are useless in arguments, the Developers are quoted on these same "echo chamber forums" saying this themselves, the best players know and acknowledge the game at the high end favors Survivors. The thing that people keep trying to do is using fallacies and acting as if people mean its impossible to win beyond a certain level when they say its survivor sided, nobody is saying its impossible so that narrative needs to die. People just say that towards the higher brackets of MMR, your skill as a Killer matters less and less, what matters more is what perks/addons/maps are played and how many mistakes the Survivors make.
Its not a random thought echoed on a chamber when some of the same, the same content creators people cherrypick quotes from are quoted agreeing with this at various points of time so arguing over it is silly.
TLDR: Strawman argument so incorrect. Otz hasn't proved anything, Top MMR brackets favor Survivor but it does not mean its impossible for Killers to win at this level. It just means that their individual skill matters less, the maps/perks/addons/survivor mistakes matter more and the opposite is true in Low MMR brackets
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If you want every Killer in the game to be F-C Tier just say that
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@Midori_21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2625355#Comment_2625355
They're not transparent anymore because in the past when they were transparent, usually the things they said they were doing just never happened.
Translation: BHVR is a teenager that doesn't want to be held accountable or live up to any expectations they may set for themselves. They want to victimize themselves to avoid potential criticism instead of just being straight-forward. Ironically they lose a lot of trust/respect for acting like this, they go out of their way to gatekeep criticism and yet it promotes more criticism than the stuff they're gatekeeping would in the first place
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@Brokenbones said:
Is there any other killer that is punished for using their power correctly like Twins are?
Serious question
*Ghostface turns to you with a noose around his neck*
"First time?"
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@Regulus47 said:
Honestly? Only legion and clown. The rest have potential and can dominate games if they're played by a good killer. Legion and clown could use some tweaks but aside from that everybody is mostly fine viability wise. it's just that some killers are easy to win with and some are not and nobody gets good enough with the hard ones to win all their games, so they just think they are bad. If you're really good, almost any killer is viable :)
Maybe at the lowest possible MMR sure, every Killer there is viable because Survivors will continuously make the same mistakes and give Killers free hits/hooks/kills/wins without much input needed on the Killer's side. At the higher levels, it is absolutely false that most Killers are equally viable, it also has absolutely nothing to do with skill or 'getting good enough with hard ones to win all their games'.
With a decent chunk of the roster it really doesn't matter how good you are. You can have 600 hours or 13,000 - A really good Trapper is not consistently beating really good teams of 4 Survivors that make almost 0 mistakes and/or communicate the entire match about where your traps are and where your location is. This doesn't even include stacked perks, stacked items, stacked offerings to guarantee a specific map that they have a strategy for. Your only hopes to consistently win beyond a certain level while using a weaker M1 Killer are to:
A) Try to find a weak link to tunnel out fast if they even allow you to catch them easily enough so you can even the odds a bit
B) Play regular and pray that they make enough mistakes that allow you to snowball and steal a win (This might not ever happen against a lot of teams in Higher-MMR lobbies)
C) Accept that you're not winning the match and just try to make nice plays/collect your bloodpoints so you can move on to the next match.
Do you actually believe no players in the world have taken the time/effort/patience to master or play hundreds of matches with specific Killers in an attempt to win most of their games with them? People reach a point where they realize the effort is not worth it when you look at the results. If all those weak killers were actually viable like you believe, there wouldn't be a meta and thousands of more people would pick their personal favorites at all levels of MMR instead of picking characters that give them a better chance to win
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Lets just nerf everything so Survivors have an even easier time. Everybody should be M1 with no map pressure or mobility
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2593175#Comment_2593175
Survivor uses DH early: THEY'RE USING IT FOR DISTANCE HOW DARE THEY
Survivors use DH to avoid a hit but end up exhausted on the ground: well they were just too greedy with it
Survivors are bad no matter what on this forum
Thank you LMAO JPA doesn't know what he's talking about. That's exactly what I said and he had no counterargument so he starts rambling irrelevant moot points to try to sound sophisticated. If you complain about Dead Hard not working now all of a sudden you're greedy
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2593832#Comment_2593832
- I never said "every survivor is greedy" but thanks for creating a strawman argument that is easier for you to attack. What I did say was that people who are greedy will more consistently end up exhausted on the ground (because they are more likely to not use DH at a safe range but go for a maximally efficient play)
- It's not black and white, it isn't either a dead hard for distance, or a "greedy" dead hard. It could lie somewhere in between. You could use it to straight up dodge a hit. You could wait 1-2 seconds as a Killer reaches hitting range and do it. You could "greed" it and wait 2/3/4 seconds and wait until you see the Killer actually swing. It could be a combination of both, you use it for distance to get to a pallet, but delay it enough to also make the Killer swing, wasting more time with their missed hit cooldown. Can you see the greed in this case? You are waiting a fraction of a second longer to get the Killer to waste a hit AND get to the pallet/window to extend the chase. Or if you are looping a small loop, you could DH nice and early, or you can hope that the Killer is going to wait our your DH and maximize the loop (they might do if its the second time they are chasing and already know you have DH). Can you see now why it is called "greeding"?
That's not a strawman, that's a straight up response to a dumb statement you made.
"ONLY the people who are greedy with it will complain about the time they spend exhausted on the ground."
Actually, EVERYBODY who uses Dead Hard has complained or will complain about being exhausted on the ground at one point or another, it means the perk wasn't/isn't working properly.......Your sarcastic explanation about something obvious for anybody with thousands of hours in this game is pointless. I don't need to learn what greeding is, but nice strawman from the person who accuses me of a strawman even though it wasn't an implication from me... That's something YOU literally wrote yourself.... Read your own message