Rip vigil will not be missed
Sincerely someone who can actually play freddy at optimum hinder now lol.
(For those not in the discord they said itll only apply to exhaustion at 30%) which will be d.rd as well if stacked with other ways to reduce it so should be nice. Judgement looks good too.
Comments
Might as well remove the perk
I mean anyone remember old tinkerer? How it could warp addons around itself? Vigil did that same gimmick pm. Any addon that gives a status. Any perk that gives a status that has to be balanced on the status (jason hex only being 3 seconds). And even killer powers like freddy and I think nemi could be unfairly nerfed when a perk was never supposed to counter a power.
There was certainly a better way they could have handled the perk. But it was certainly a perk that deserves the gutting it is getting.
My only concern is on judgment is that you can the beam now even FURTHER away. I could already see it coming a mile away, now it’ll be 2 miles.
Exile will actually feel like a threat now so that’s good. I love the visual they added to show when it will actually injury someone. It was so hard to tell on PTB.
So I don't understand why Lightborn is okay if it's literally the same reason as to why Vigil has been nerfed.
I think this is the one time I'm really upset with this change, I do agree it shouldnt affect killer powers, but there was a better way to deal with its nerf. Now it's only good for exhaustion users and not supportive players who were using it to help people with exposed etc.
Are we going to have any kind of perk tailored to this kind of playstyle? A boon maybe? I've used vigil to help others with Botany etc since it's introduction. I just don't understand the double standards, I never will, it's always moving goalposts. Could we just not bugfix what was wrong with it thats not intended????
You're doing a great job at making more and more survivors not want to play the game, it's like everyone who used to like old Dead Hard, you've went after sprint burst.
Lithe etc is next, mark my words, I'm so tired of this.
I also predict lithe will be nerfed within a year or so. Simply because most will use it and deemed as problematic, eventually any useful survivor perk getting the chop. Though same for killers however they have power, survivor just skins and perks
Did you casually compare Lightborn to Vigil?
Vigil countered a bunch of killer perks, killer addons and even killer powers, Vigil did to much for a perk and the worst part is only a single survivor could use this perk and affect the whole team.
Lightborn just counters a single item, a useless item, that's it.
"Lightborn counters a single item" and perks.
You answered it yourself. it's the same reason.
It’s not even comparable comparing a tier S perk to a F tier item that does nothing.
I’m sorry both are not comparable.
We literally just compared them LMAO
Yet another survivor perk right into the trashbin.
Wonder why killer queues take 15 mins, have fun playing Minesweeper while you wait buddies.
About time, perk was beyond overtuned.
There is nerfing a Perk and there is trashing a Perk. And once again, they trashed another Survivor-Perk. It is now worse than 5 years ago (and possibly even worse than release Vigil since this affected more than just Exhaustion, but at 20%).
But hey, Survivors all run the same Perks.
It had to pick a lane because affecting all status is a very big deal. We just got a hex with jason that works on a 3 second hinder. Way less by vigil. Freddy and nemi being actual powers being impacted by it. Any status perk,or addon had to be made with its time in mind. On both sides because pretty sure it affected your own perks as well (deliv,stb) so I see why condensing it was the way to go it was even bigger than old tinkerer nowadays because charge addons have kinda fell out lol. But status is everywhere.
There is a big difference between "It affects Hindered!" and "Lets remove everything from the Perk except Exhaustion and nerf the percentage even more". I am fine with nerfing a Perk. But I dont like destroying it, especially if the same people who are happy about that are those who complain about Survivors only using a few Perks.
This is not surprising if Survivors get new Perks which are trash and old Perks get nerfed into the ground. And Vigil was nerfed into the ground. (Fast Track before it)
I don't even use Vigil and can see that this is a really bad move. The whole point of a perk is to get a benefit from it, to feel like it gives you an edge in some situations. Yes, a "haha I have Vigil" moment (as was mentioned on the stream). I totally understand about the base killer powers, like Freddy's hinder. Fair enough, it should not be affected.
Perks like Vigil make for some unpredictability and variety. Maybe the killer has Dragon's Grip and the person with Vigil recovered quicker, so it was countered or meant there was a chase instead of an insta-down.
I agree that Vigil is (was) strong and needed adjustment, but basically making this licensed perk worthless is short-sighted and smacks of further pandering to the vocal minority. Quentin is not a super popular survivor but a lot of people will have him for Vigil. Not so much in the future I guess.
I would have been fine with earnable tokens or even like WHILE healing a survivor they recover from status effects faster or something.
Not whatever this is.
Like now we have no answers to soften the blows of status effects on survivor, yippee.
Personally I think it should either keep the effect on mangled, hemorrhage, oblivious, blindness, and broken and put it at the 40% increased recovery speed, or put it to the old recovery speed and make it only apply to exhausted. If it only increases recovery speed by 30% and only applies to exhaustion, it barely has more effectiveness than Ghost Notes which is 10% reduced exhaustion timer (weird but important distinction) except Ghost Notes also gives you a nice scratch mark effect. Alternatively, they could also keep the above effected statuses and put it at the old 66% increased recovery speed, but remove the exhaustion effect and instead slightly buff Ghost Notes to 20%
Either way though, Vigil probably had to go from it's current state, so at least that's happened. I just hope they adjust it in the future.
STBFL vibes the perk is done
Yeah, this is something I thought as well. Such a "I have Vigil"-moment was a fun thing. I never used Vigil except for a very short time where I used it together with Ghost Notes and Lightweight, but I had it in Chaos Shuffle from time to time. And one time it prevented me going down due to an Exposed effect (I dont know what it was exactly), because the Exposed just ran out right before the Killer could hit me. Was an amazing feeling, even if it was pure luck. Might have been frustrating for the Killer in that instant, but since stuff like that happens once in a blue moon, they probably did not think about it after the next game or so.
And this was just something cool which will not happen anymore. Now it only applies to Exhaustion and this is honestly pretty irrelevant, since this only applies if the Killer actually leaves the chase. And from my experience, this rarely happens, but I also dont run Exhaustion Perks so I dont really pay attention to Exhaustion.
I honestly think a Token system would be fun. Like starting with a few Token and then Survivors can spend those to reduce status effects, but dont have a way to get them back. So they might want to spend all of them on their Deliverance to be healed faster, but dont have them for any other aspects. Or just using them a bit to make Mangled disappear a bit quicker or stuff like that.
Any other changes?
I'm in the same boat, I don't run Exhaustion perks nor Vigil, but I can see how this kind of change can affect the gameplay and further remove agency from the survivor players. We can only hope there will be some positive changes when they update the 45 perks they mentioned. I won't even start on Shoulder the Burden, which they clearly intend to nerf because killers can't get their tunnel out on the weak player when it's used. So unfair.
With Vigil, one of the main areas we identified was that it did too much against so many things - new statuses get added, Vigil works against them. Keeping it to exhaustion only can help us to balance the perk more, yes the percentage also increased and we're monitoring that, it can yet be changed after release. But having it work on so many statuses was becoming a balancing nightmare for the perk.
Yeah I kind of figured that was the case. Do you know if (even if it doesn't affect killer powers, or effects like hindered or exposed) we'll get a different perk down the line that affects other statuses? Or is it just too hard to balance for in general.
Also, can anybody point me to where this patch information / the dev livestream is? I can't find it anywhere
I can't say what is going to come up down the line I'm afraid - SECRETS!
The information was shared in our Discord Developer update earlier today.
may i ask when this philosophy happened? Before the ptb, it seemed like yall (the devs) were perfectly ok with how vigil worked, it was just overtuned by the numbers. now all of a sudden, the perk “did too much against so many things” coincidentally when killer focused players and CC’s were spamming posts on social media that “vigil wasn’t nerfed hard enough” or “vigil is still op” for the past month ever since the nerf to 40% was announced.
why couldn’t the 40% change on the ptb be shipped live to gather data? the perk is now gutted because of mass complaints from killer CC’s and their audience once again have dictated the games balance.
Also with Vigil no longer affecting Broken, why is the deli nerf still coming to live? 60 seconds of broken was perfectly fine when vigil wasn’t in play.
Doesnt your 2nd question answer your first? "60 seconds is balanced when vigil isnt in play" almost like people were saying thats why vigil breaks things. Shoulder suddenly from 60 seconds becomes 47. A hex from jason becomes 1.7 seconds. Ect. You have to think of every status it effects in EVERY case and whether itll be too strong or do nothing at all.
I mean, one way to stop worrying about a perk's balance is to make it so niche and useless no one runs it so mission accomplished I guess.
It's been mentioned that Vigil does too much. Ok do you expect survivors to be psychic and know which statuses and debuffs they need to counter prior to a match, rely on luck and guessing, or just not counter them at all and accept that killer applied debuffs are some privileged thing that don't get to be countered? It really has to be one of those 3.
Ut only counter 1 perk that being flash bangs. You are still slowed and stunned when kicking a gen your just not giv8ng light sensitive people migraines
Out of curiosity, is there something that changed about the difficulty to balance Vigil between now and the pre-8.5.0 version when it was 30% with the smaller 8 meter range? It still affected all the same status effects then as it does now but it was never considered problematic then with the lower numbers since the effect it had was smaller and it also didn't get applied to other survivors as often since they had to be closer to you for the effect to work.
Ultimately I understand why this decision was made and it does fix the issue it had with affecting Hindered with certain killers, but if it's going to be exhaustion only moving forward I don't see it getting much use at all anymore. Its best pairing was with SB, which is also about to be nerfed, and Vigil wasn't nearly as impactful on most other exhaustion perks, it has no application with DH at all for example since you can only use it once per unhook and being hooked resets exhaustion anyway.
Its still a good perk for anti statis effects. If you dont being effected by statis effect you run it sense most killers have a way to apply statis effects.
Personly it should just not work on self inflicted statis effects. Make it so it works on all statis effect that do not come from base powers like clown or Freddy and the survivor them self like with shoulder the burden. it would be easier to balance it.
It counteres flashlights and flashbangs plus only blind from blastmine not the stun duration and firecrackers.
What did old vigil countered (it still does right now)?
All negative effects giving survivor any "hinder" so statuses like exposed,hinder,blindness,olbivious,Hemorrhage,mangled and ofcourse exhauste which is negative effect from most used perks in game and one of most op ones for survivor like sprintburst,lithe or DH (not nowdays is with this perk problem because its hook related but still it can be used with things like lithe or balance landing).
Vigil just totaly nerfs killers like ghostface,clown,freddy by just being in any survivor build equiped and counters many perks and addons causing status effects mentioned above.
So comparing it to lightborn thats like comparing bullet to a rocket, I know this wont be taken in account as facts because majority of vigil glazers will be running wild on forums now crying becuase their toy got nerfed but I think I mentioned enough facts why lightborn isnt near the vigil (not the ptb one) and how op vigil is and will be till ptb changes come to live game.
Main part of why vigil is being nerfed isnt that its good but that is good in almost everything and its used because of that like there isnt many survivors using sprintburst without running vigil arent they. Thats why they nerf it, lightborn is just for bully squads and newer palyers or kinda can help counter cheaters blinding you though walls but all the lightborn needs its so killers cant see survivor items in lobby and trust me like many lightborns you see will stop existing becuase I would say majority uses them when they see many flashlights in their lobby.
So are we cancelling the sprint burst nerf now that Vigil is dead? Or just piling it next to the other dead survivor perks, fog vials, and medkit add ons?
They should just make it work like Leader a not give you the effect
Well that I understand, but will we ever get a healer dispel of some sort of perk in future? I don't want to be able to stop every debuff, all I want is to be able to help against specific debuffs with an item or resource (perk).
Thank you for the clarification.
nope content creators will complain about that
While I'm mostly indifferent on the change since the exhaustion is the main reason people run it and I don't really use exhaustion perks myself I really hope we start to see those people who say "survivor perks never get nerfed" change their tune because two of the strongest survivor perks in the current meta have both been hit (Sprint Burst and Vigil).
I do think it affecting so many things was a bit much, If It were up to me I'd have just made it Exhaustion, Mangled & Haemorrhage.
Will they add survivor bots into normal queues once they start complaining about killer queue times?
nope they need their power fantasy
the perk sucks. Can’t wait to see what other perk killer players complain about!
Seems like you did not get the memo that it will only affect Exhaustion.
Loghtborn affected one thing, Blinding.
Vigil affected more then one thing, affecting killers, and powers.
A survivor does not need to flashlight save or flashbang someone so it overall has less affects on survivor in comparison.
this is like the main function of survivor counterplay by the way, and it voids perks like Blast Mine and Flashbang as well. insane raging double standard to act like preventing flashlights or any form of blinding is "just one small thing" while taking a bit of the edge off of lingering negative effects is an insanely game changing and in a tier of its own problem wise. Survivors don't get to see what killer they are facing before a match, killers do. they can throw on lightborn when they see flashlights and it throws peoples whole gameplan out the window, survivors can run vigil and guess… it might not even affect the killer they are facing at all, lightborn affects 100% of survivors all of the time.
Did I say small? I stated one thing.
Putting words in my mouth is a sign you don't want a debate.
Blastmine only removes the bliding effect but the stun is still there when killer has lightborn so unless you screw up moving in his FOV while he is stunned the blastmine doesnt get countered by lightborn, remember it.
Survivor main counterplay is to dont get caught easily and do their objective (the gens, getleman), blinding sabboing and pallet stunning just saving in general is option how to fight back but not main counterplay. Thats like saying killers main objective is to hit and run or tunnel (because it realy isnt these are just options same as saves).
LIghtborn at this state doesnt need nerf just one thing needs to happen so you dont get it so often and thats so killers cant see survivors equiped items in lobby.
If that happens then many lightborn users will stop existing because I believe like half of them just use it becuase they see flashlight or few of them in lobby or full lobby so they equip lightborn as answer (counter).
In majority of matches lightborn is waste of perk slot that doesnt do anything and many pick it just because of what they see in their lobby if they couldnt see survivors items they wouldnt equip lightborn, then there are lightborn ejoyers that wont put it away becaue they either love it or have pts from their time as beginers because they got bullyed by flashlights but these are very small minority.
I mean it still enhances the strongest set of perks in the game so it's still VERY good. It's just no longer completely overtuned reducing nearly EVERY negative status effect that wasn't an infinite duration.
Because lightborn becomes a dead perk extremely quickly against competent survivors. Vigil is ALWAYS in effect as its always ran with exhaustion perks while also actively discouraging people to use other status effect perks. It was effectively a counter to every status effect duration besides incapacitated which could only be applied by two killers. And sprint burst is legit a top 3 survivor perk in the game because of how easy it is and the safety it provides, it needed a nerf for a LONG time.
https://youtu.be/-PJ1F4yuPEUAs for old dead hard… we both know why it needed to be knee capped. I won the mind game but because the invincibility dash that took very little skill to use effectively, I lose.
its changes sb from 27 seconds to 30 seconds if the 3 second nerf.
I can't say that I'm too particularly sad over it. After all it gave you 66% faster recovery for nearly every single status effect in the game passively, in an AoE which is pretty silly when you really think about it. I believe it's still decent-ish since exhaustion recovery is always a good thing no matter what, could it have been handled better? Probably, but I feel like in order to keep vigil currently you'd have to rework a lot of killer powers to include very special, very specific status effects and making those special exemptions would possibly mess with the diminishing returns system on top. It's far too complicated to tweak so many different powers like that when it's just easier to remove all the extra baggage from vigil.