Killers eat good, huh?
It just feels like killers get what they want all the time.
They wanted dead hard nerfted? They got it. Spine chill, Shane's perk? got it.
Deliverance, sprint burst, vigil? Got it
Soon shoulder the burden, lithe, resilience, balanced landing will be getting nerfs, because of killer complains and spreadsheet will show that those perks are overused.
We had anti-tunnel system implemeneted - killers feedback made developers scrape the idea, they got rid of it.
Now killers tunnel and feel good about it. Can't say that about surviviors. They automatically lose a game because killer found the "weak link".
Atleast they nerfed ONE slugging perk, let's be happy.
Surviviors feedback about problematic killers doesn't seem to matter for a long time now.
Nurse, Kaneki and Jason destroy lobbies without a problem.
Well, atleast they nerfed blight and wins aren't that free anymore. We should be happy.
Basekit BT is being shortened - something that helped us a lot when killer went for immidiate tunnel.
We could make distance to a better loop, giving us a better chance.
Not everyone was using that offensively.
Solo queue? Who cares, right?
Find friends to play with just so we will slight chance to get escape sometimes.
Surviviors are DCing, giving up against their disliked killers. Making everyone have bad experience.
But we still didn't decide to think why that happens. Why would a survivior DC against their 5th overtuned jason in a row?
Or ghoul that doesn't really care about anything, bringing 4 slowdowns and 2 addons that literally act like perks.
Why don't we do something about that? Why don't we make survivior experience a little bit more enjoyable, so maybe those people will start enjoy the game more?
Why are surviviors giving their feedback and nothing is being done about it?
Comments
All I am saying is that this information source isn't official and can be very different from the truth.
I also wish BHVR was more clear about stats.
Gideon meat plant is hard, because you need to break more strong pallets - we can all agree on that.
But slugging on this map isn't really necessary after they've changed how killer's body can block survivior prompt.
They won't. Killers will complain that they can't find anybody when when they zoom back to the hook the moment they hear the notification. I'd rather them delay the unhook notification by a few seconds and keep the BT at 15s without Elusive.
Who trusts Nightlight to be a reliable metric?
I would say that the cumbersome sumbitting system doesn't allow for a large enough sample size to be accurate enough, and since the submitting is manual, results can be cherry-picked into giving false results.
Here is an example from the official stat tracker. I am currently doing a challenge, playing a killer that I have never before played, and trying to see how well I can perform over 30 days with said killer.
As of now, I am sitting at 64%. Granted, I have not played that much, but I am still above the average (for now), with a killer that is regarded as very bugged and not particularly good.
Scrub, check out MY numbers, lol
All jokes aside though, the difference between an individual player and the average can be pretty staggering. If we went based off just an individual player, ANYTHING could be argued to be OP.
Here's an example that is more realistic, lol.
This just shows how unreliable all the stat trackers are and how their data makes no sense even internally. You have 15 iri Devout emblems out of 16 matches. Iri Devout is 4 kills. There is no other way to reach it (2 points per kill, 1 for hooking all once, 1 for 9 hooks in total). That's 60 kills. Nightlight claims you only had 41. Even if the final match was 0k, which seems unlikely because you had iri in every other category, it's still undercounting kills by at least 19 out 64 possible total.
It's miscounting DCs/abandons as escapes. Its data doesn't even make sense internally, and should not be used for literally anything.
So you can use a tiny sample size but because night light only uses more people's accounts then one but not all accounts we cant use it?Yes, that's literally how stats work. If your sample isn't actually reflective of the full data set, it's useless.
A few years ago, every time BHVR released stats Nightlight's mirrored them within a couple of points (margin of error). Back then it was safer to say that we could use Nightlight for a broader understanding of performance (though it still had some issues) - but given their data isn't even close to the total data, its worthless.
But what does any of this have to do with your earlier post/argument: 'We, objectively, just had THE most survivor biased game mode in history which only a handful of killers were good (but still boring in).'
Some things have been tried out in event modes and a related idea has sometimes made it into the game. Okay, what does that have to do with the topic?
I've heard that they acted upon uninstall survey, which mostly were survivior complains - killers slugging, tunneling and camping.I can't point out exact source tho, so take it with a grain of salt.The uninstall survey was briefly cited by Mandy on this forum but then never expanded on. Until she cited it, it's not like anyone was doubting that people were upset by tunneling/camping, but then the survey became a way for people to try and side step the argument.
Anyway, when this was going on people uninstalled the game and actually posted the screenshots (many of the CC vids were working off older forms). The vast majority of the provided possibilities (over 20) were neutral (e.g. too many bugs), with an option to call out both killer and/or survivor perks balance, and then amongst all those options was the 'excessive tunneling and camping' choice.
It's little more than hypocritical gaslighting anyway. If you have an opinion that's positive for survivors, you're biased and emotional. You can't be taken seriously. You just want to oppress those poor killers because you feel bad and want easy wins. Play better, scrub. You're just BIASED. If you have an opinion that's positive for killers, you're a bold truth teller stating an objective fact. It's virtuous and laudable. You're standing up for the underdog.
It's the same as whenever they chide us vs them things. Is it pro-survivor? Stop with all this us vs them. You're dividing the community. Is it pro-killer? *crickets*
The emblem tracker is not an accurate representation. It counts ALL grades, not just the iri ones.
Survivor DC's or abandons does not impact killer stats.
Ah, that was you, haha. Sadly not my best game, at the start I did not want to sandbag you and ran into the Open and for some reason he left his chase and beelined towards me when I was healing quite far away from him after the Unhook. Could have clearly played that better.
Not a big deal to die, I was surprised that someone still plays Insidious Bubba in 2026, lol.
He posted a screenshot from that game in our Discord channel, and we were certain that it was you.
Funny meeting other forum members in the wild like that.
You being on hook for straight 140 seconds let us finish last 2 gens and escape, StB worked well after all :D
And that's what I was saying before - killer camping let's people do gens. Imidiate lose.
I'm seeing a massive lack of self-awareness in this thread. Survivor has been eating good for multiple years now, and I'll be analyzing each of your points to prove this.
Dead Hard was completely unhealthy with its dash to the point Trapper was unplayable.
Spine Chill granted free wallhacks and a bonus to vault speed for the low price of being looked at by the killer.
Cross Examination removed all info in chase for simply playing a tile. The perk is flawed by design and should not have needed to wait 3 hotfixes to be nerfed.
Deliverance removes the need for your teammates to get off their objective. Doubling the Broken duration will not change that.
Sprint Burst gives you free massive distance for simply pressing shift w. Losing 1 second won't change much.
Vigil is harmful to perk variety as it shuts down status effect builds and makes Exhaustion perks stronger. If anything, as long as it continues to reduce Exhaustion it will continue to be harmful.
The other perks you want to predict being nerfed is 75% doomposting. Shoulder the Burden is the only one there that needs a nerf. Anyone with a brain will tell you that Shoulder is a busted perk because of how much pressure it removes. The only reason the stats at BHVR don't reflect that is because most of the player base lacks that brain so the perk does more harm than good.
This is where you start talking out of your ass, because you would not be saying this if you actually read those changes.
The anti-tunnel changes of 9.2 completely gutted the Killer's macro gameplay and allowed survivors to win on autopilot because they got adamantium armor off the hook with THIRTY SECONDS of unhook protections and immunity to Killer Instinct (which is exclusive to certain killer powers) with incredibly unhealthy perk changes. Let's not even mention the anti-slug with its additive 90 seconds that gives you permanent Unbreakable, or the fact this PTB made Krasue look way weaker than she actually was.
9.3 was only slightly better because they axed the penalties (that would have killed Sadako and Pig) but it was still terrible because they kept all the problematic stuff that got them that feedback in the first place. You also had updated perks like Babysitter which puts the killer in a lose-lose because chasing either the unhooker or the unhooked means dealing with the 30s of protections and/or a proximity aura reveal. And while I like the BP bonus 9.3 gave unique hooks, it was too small to matter and not enough to dissuade comp behaviors.
I play both roles with a P100 on each side (Steve and Pig) and all I can say about these two PTBs is they could have had a passable update if they just axed the problem points of both these PTBs and fine-tuned the good things in them. Instead, their all-or-nothing approach damaged trust in them because it proved they were perfectly fine spending months of resources on untested changes no one asked for. I definitely want to see members of their QA team on their dev streams some time because neither of these PTB's proposed changes should have made it past them.
Jason is going through the cycle of "new killer OP because I have to use my brain" that the sub-100hr Twitter players like to perpetuate. He is not problematic in the slightest.
Kaneki is the most enjoyable of the S tiers because he only punishes shift w compared to the others who have very little counters.
And just as a solid reminder: Nurse has been the strongest killer ever since she launched, with Spirit and Krasue being the only ones to challenge that position. BHVR didn't want to properly address god loops back then, so they released a killer that ignores them and every single other obstacle on the map.
The main two reasons she has evaded nerfs for so long are:
I'm certain everyone has a killer they'd rather play instead of Blight/Nurse/Ghoul but they don't because they've been shafted at every corner thanks to the current stale meta and pallet density. If you make someone choose between kicking a dozen pallets to down one Meg or just ignore those pallets and get the down way earlier, guess which one they'll pick?
10 seconds is still enough time to make it to an exit gate. You also get Elusive during that same period now.
And just because not everyone was using that aggressively doesn't mean no one was using it aggressively. It has been proven time and time again, especially with the 80 seconds you used to get from Off the Record, that when you give people extended periods of protection from death in a PvP game, it will be used aggressively.
Survivors have DC'd for far less than facing a killer they dislike. I've has people DC on me when I just wanted to farm BP on Pig/Dracula. Another time I had a Mikaela DC within the first minute of the match because a Trapper downed them first and blamed it on me for wasting time even tho I was on a gen outside of his TR at the time. Hell, a person spent the past four months regularly commenting on my steam profile saying my mother should have aborted me solely because I chose to go through the exit gates instead of saving them and their two buddies who were all hooked in basement against a NOED using Lich.
Keep in mind that even with having legal cheats in the Black Banquet, survivors did not change. They still lost most of their matches, they still DC'd, and they still complained. At what point does catering to a crowd who just wants to win all their games on autopilot become the worst option you could make?
Yeah Silent Shadow and NOED is too strong, and a bit of a cheese if you ask me… Imagine if there was a Survivor perk where if all 4 brought it, it meant you got a free Mettle of Man when the last generator was completed (NOED). Or what about full Elusive for the entire end game? (Silent Shadow). Because that's the equivalent strength it would be on the survivor side, but that would never be accepted.
This image is from the official stat page and the kill rates on their have always been accurate for me. I obsess over it. I check it multiple times a day. I check it between matches in the lobby. I even made a post about my testing it awhile back:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/460944/stat-page-accuracy-test#latest
The other stuff like emblems or pallet breaks or whatever idk. KRs and ERs are all I care about, and I've never had an issue.
And I sure don't want to defend Nightlight but they pull from screenshots of the leaderboards, which shows abandons/DCs as deaths (assuming the bot died).
Is that right? Because if you Abandon as a survivor (for example, slugged 3 times), the leaderboard tally screen shows an Escaped icon on that survivor's end at least (visual bug). Only if the person submitting to NightLight spends the time to correct it manually from Escaped to the actual outcome, will it show correctly in their stats. Unless they had friends on the team, that survivor will never know if their bot escaped or not.
Also the inherent flaw in NightLight stats is that they depend on the user submitting every one of their games, and if you are a survivor that dies/Abandons with still a good chunk of the match to go, you have to sit on the end tally screen and wait for the match to finish in order to get the screenshot with the final result. So if you don't wait and just move on to the next match, that data is just not counted (because it's not uploaded).
Does it? I don't ever abandon so I don't know how it looks to the abandoner, but they show as kills for me as killer or if I'm another survivor. They show as escapes on the stat page though, for everyone, even though they still count as kills for the killer.
This is from a while back but this is what it looks like if you Abandon. When the remaining players finish the match (including your bot), the icon doesn't change.
Ah, that's an unfortunate hole in my knowledge. Now I know. Unfortunate for accuracy too. So the personal survivor stats and Nightlight stats are equally inaccurate (depending on who uploads). Everyday I learn a new way Nightlight is inaccurate.
I've actually been playing around wirh thier page today. I don't know if most people even know how it works (I didn't). The match upload looks like this:
For some reason you can identify globes and bots for it manually even though it should be able to see it itself. It also doesn't indicate the fact there was a bot matters to anything so I'm not sure what that's for. They should at least allow a manual option to change an escaped bot to a death if that's incorrect but I don't see one. This page is truly pointless.
You can click on the death/escape type icon to change it. Even includes options for Hatch and whether you gave it to them or not.
It all depends on image recognition which is not always accurate due to the icon placement - things like the length of the survivor/killer name, player usernames can shift the icons to where they are not properly recognised. And the background is not consistent due to banners and the moving "running in the field" background.
Ah OK I see. The display was putting it on top of the globes for me. But doesn't that mean I could just change the status of a dead person to alive and warp the stats?
Yes of course, it's all user-submitted data.
But if you can just override what's in the screenshot what's even the point of the screenshot? Why isn't there just a box where I can write "match 1: they all escaped trust me"? How can anything be this horribly inaccurate and even be known of, not to mention popular and commonly cited? I'm totally baffled by this. I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was this bad.
That's why you can only use it as a general indicator. For example the builds and perk usage gives a reasonable idea of the most popular perks but the outcomes of the matches with those perks/builds cannot be seen as an accurate reflection of the strength of the perks.
wasting 4 months of your life to hate on someone in their steam profile is such a loser thing to do.
I pity that poor soul.
Only in dbd
Surprisingly, it's not even the worst thing I've experienced in my 8k hour journey in this game.
That is currently a tie between a Myers and Alucard who said I wasn't allowed to defend myself because I left the trial (sole escapee btw) due to being injured and on death hook while he had tier 3 active (pre-rework Myers), and the time I played friendly Springtrap and a Jake player tried to accuse me of cheating because me being friendly unfairly manipulates their MMR gain.
I know that a lot of killer players are very mean, but you can't blame whole killer community. I feel like I'm only killer playing chill and off meta relying on good predictions rather than mean gameplay when I play survivor. But understand the frustration, you play chill and survivors are not pleased by that they are only vocative if you play toxic or lose the game. Like you 2 hooked everyone so you get max points and they mock you for being trash killer. I said them because I played survivor with them that why are they toxic when the killer ran meme build and played extremely uncompetitevly and what do you think? Did they care? No. That's why killers don't care either. They run meta and play mean because they can. If the game direction was less competitive, people would behave otherwise. Like why diminishing returns is delayed for so long? It only forced people of meme builds to run meta that is not diminished at all. Like you run pain res, corrupt, dms and surge and nothing is diminished but my favourite build? Help Wanted, Tinkerer, Machine Learning and Rapid? Completely destroyed. Other of my favourite builds - batteries, rapid, pwyf, game afoot… again completely destroyed. I switched to clock, languid touch, overwhelming presence and unforseen. But why can't I play my favourite perks and builds anymore… just to sweat with meta…
Edit:
And now wait untill next patch. Vigil and Sprint are getting nerfed because killers are lazy to pop on antiexhaustion. Cross-examination got nerfed despite it being completely countered by meme perks such as hysteria or beast of prey so if cross ever become meta it would not work against those perks while already not working against many killers due to their kit. What will happen when chase perks are nerfed? More gen perks will be played and from my killer pov survivors rarely play gen perks. Yeah like deja vu as solo perk or occassionaly hyperfocus stake out but the genrush meta isn't happening. Mostly you see exhaustion perks and antitunnel perks. Resilience is one of my most seen perks as killer. And I'm kinda afraid of future being all based around gens like it happened with killers. I want to pop on invocation without my teammates leaving the lobby when I say I have them. I want to pop on every perk and feel that most game it does something valuable. Let's say if Spies in shadow reveal survivor aura who scared the crow? It would be completely fine perk. If invocations have no downside they would still be okish perks. There are so many options, so many reworks. Insidious fe. - if survivor loses health state you gain 30s undetectable. Would be fine. I truly hope they touch the perks after years of stale.
As someone who uses the perk a lot StB is... okay. Only gets crazy if everyone runs it but just one person it can save games sometimes but if you get tunneled it does nothing and if the person you shoulder isn't actually that good you're not buying that much time only slightly delaying the inevitable. It's a perk you really gotta think about how you use.
I think most people think about the most extreme scenarios for perks which combined with not actually playing that side is a really bad combination.
Hyperfocus/Stake out is another example. People swear it's broken but in reality it's really swingy. Get a Wesker and be allowed to work on the center gen uninterrupted? Yeah it's extremely powerful. But any stealth killer and half your build is dead. Get constantly found and it's not doing anything. Wanna use it on a side gen and you have to follow the killer around and actually build up the tokens first. Then you have to actually get the skill checks which are uncommon without a toolbox so realistically the actual combo it Hyperfocus/Stake out/Built to Last so your entire build is now devoted to pretty much one thing so better hope you don't have to do anything else besides gens or you're screwed. But yes if all those stars align it's very very good.
Unless BHVR provides API endpoints to pull this data this is literally all you can do, if BHVR isn't going to supply the data willingly then the only alternative is community provided data. Which as your point out, can absolutely be lied about….but what's the alternative, try not to collect any data at all because some poeple could lie? At that point why even have the forums, anyone can lie about anything here, what's the value in it if it cannot be absolutely proven?
A single person can be disagreed with. They have to defend their points and others can disagree and explain why. And if a post contains lies/provably wrong things they can be called out.
We had an example of such a thing a few days days ago.
Bad data is insidious. No one can be called on to defend it, it just becomes 'the best we have'. Except its worse than nothing, because its wrong and leads people to believe things that aren't true. Having an opinion about how you think the game is, but you can't say for sure because of lack of data and thus you need to argue why you think that, is much better than having an opinion that a person doesn't feel the need to defend because 'the data supports it'.
The alternative is having discussions, people actually explaining why they believe something, and answering those who disagree with them.
At that point why believe anything though? Clearly if it's not from BHVR then its suspect to photo editing, AI editing, and the like. And if someon does not approach the argument with a "proof" in hand then its anecdotal and can be hand waved away/ignored. You "feel" something is Overpowered/underpowered/bad/good/whatever, it's just "ancedotal" and cannot be taken seriously. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place of "I cant trust what you say" and also simultaneously "Well just because you experienced X doesn't mean everyone does". In effect there is no point to arguing anything because it could be fake or anecdotal so it doesn't really matter.
Why do we believe anyone in real life? Anyone can lie to you, but some people are telling the truth, some aren't, and there's lots of subjectivity mixed in.
We use our knowledge of the world and our ability to evaluate arguments (the same thing we do to show why Nightlight isn't reliable). In DbD context, we all have our play experience, but can also watch other people play and talk to each other. A good example, one @cogsturning has made before, is what killer on these forums actually has a KR approaching the 50% Nightlight has? There obviously have to be at least a couple of people, but its so far outside the norm of what people actually have that its initially suspect; then throw on that it doesn't agree with BHVR's data, nor is the data even consistent across its own site, and you have bad data. Is it a data collection problem, a self selection bias, or are people intentionally misleading it are all academic questions, but for the sake of discussion value, its worthless.
Data informs discussions, it doesn't determine them, and bad data undermines the ability to have an honest discussion.
In effect there is no point to arguing anything because it could be fake or anecdotal so it doesn't really matter.Just because someone could lie, doesn't mean we need to accept data (Nightlight's) that we have substantial reasons to believe is extremely inaccurate. What you're arguing is kind of the reverse of the Perfect Solution fallacy - you're saying we can't discount anything because anyone could potentially be lying.
You make really good points! Overall I guess the real reason I dislike this line of thinking is it provides the perfect backdoor to get out of any argument you dislike, if someone provides proof you can claim its fake, if someone does not provide proof you can handwave it away as an anecdotal experience and not representative of the whole. It's a perfect backdoor to arguing.
To a degree, that's always going to be true. It's why even scientists who are experts in their fields can have intense disagreements, there's always going to be potential holes in data. Eventually though we get to an Occam's Razor where something just sounds more and more improbable.
If discussions were easy we wouldn't be on the 4th page of this thread.
Yeah, it's a real fine bowl of diarrhea I get to feast on, could you pass the salt, please?
The forums should be for discussion, not for data. It's a bunch of anon people and yes, many do lie, maniuplate the truth, or repeat talking points that aren't from their own experience. There are people here on their 5th+ account. I'd hope the forum has little influence. It's just a shouting pit of angry and obsessive people.
Bad data is worse than no data. What's the point of data that's from a tiny selection of dedicated players that don't represent the whole? And especially when it's as easy as just lying about it. I can scribble "I have a 100% KR" on a piece of construction paper with a crayon and hand it to you and it would be about as reliable as Nightlight becuase I can basically go there and do that right now if I want to.
And we do have data. We have our official personal stats, which are at least accurate for killers and survivors who don't abandon. My stats and the many stats I've seen people post don't mesh with Nightlight in a any way. As @crogers271 mentioned, many times when people go "but Nightlight" I ask if their stats match the ones they're citing and they stop responding. I've never seen anyone with a KR of around 40-50. That's probably impossible without throwing or being friendly all the time.
Ah yeah killers only get buffed and the evil evil survivors get only nerfs grrrr 😡
Let's ignore that in the last couple of years that the Pallet Density Update happened, Anti Camp Update happened, Anti Tunnel Update happened, the top perks like pop, pain resonance, eruption and so on got nerfed multiple times, generator kick regression changes, skull merchant getting a labotomy, knight rework that made him weaker, chucky nerfs, blight nerfs, diminishing returns and so on.
I know Survivors are entitled but man this forum is something else
Pallet density added pallets that are easy to play around.
Anti-FACEcamp update is what you mean. Killer can still proxy camp.
Also you shouldn't camp, you don't make pressure on the map if you do that. 2 people are on a gen and 3rd is hiding to make last second trade.
Anti-tunnel was never on live servers.
POP was changed but is a great perk now.
Painres was giving too much value, eruption was miserable to go against.
Skull merchant and kicking limit was direct nerf because people would abuse her and 3gen tactic.
This made matches miserable for 4 surviviors.
Matches would take up to 60 minutes without real way to fight back.
Surviviors had to literally let killer kill them to go next.
Knight had no counterplay, chucky was impossible to loop - hits were guaranteed, blight was too free and strong (good blights still win most of the games).
Everything that happened to killers was justified.
I mean, someone can have your opinion, if you ignore that Survivors also got Nerfs and that some things got reverted or that Killers got Buffs to compensate for Nerfs they got.
Anti-Camp for example is completely meaningless, since Killers keep saying that it is Anti-FACE-Camping (except when they want to complain about Killers getting Nerfs, then it is Anti-Camp suddenly). I have only seen a handful of times that someone could unhook themselves due to Anti-Camp, this is completely in the control of the Killer. Heck, I even got camped with Insidious a few days ago, because the Killer was able to hook me in Basement and still camp me, because I was too far away when it comes to vertical distance.
Pallet Density happened and got mostly reverted. You know what did not get reverted? The Nerfs to Main Buildings. Some Main Buildings got their breakable Walls removed (Gas Heaven, Storehouse), some got Pallets removed (Aylum) and some got strong Windows removed (Chapel). All to compensate for a Pallet Density Update which got largely reverted.
Anti-Tunnel Update never happened. Killers made sure that it does not happen and since then we got many good Survivor things reverted, because Killers know by now that they just need to complain enough.
When it comes to Perks, again, both sides got Perks nerfed. And some got reverted. PGTW is almost as strong as it was in its strongest version. Pain Res and Eruption clearly were nerfs which were needed (especially Eruption, nobody can think that Incapacitated on Eruption was a healthy thing… if you even played during that time and are not just parotting other Killer Mains).
Generator Kick Limit is always something I am a bit baffled when people complain about it. Aside from it being needed due to Killers actions (holding a 3-gen from the start, no, this is not the fault of the Survivor if it happens from the start), Killers actually got away better. They lost the ability to kick Gens an infinite amount of times, yet 8 times is almost never reached in regular gameplay. But they also got an increase in the initial kick regression (2,5% —> 5%) and the removal of gentapping. I mean, we can remove the limit and add back Gentapping and reduce the initial kick regression. People like you should accept it, because they dont know that they got the better end of the stick there.
Chuckys scamper nerf was needed. Sorry, but just waiting until a Pallet is dropped to scamper under it to get a free hit is bad gameplay. Blight also deserved its Nerfs and they barely do anything.
And finally, Diminishing Returns… I think Survivors also got the shorter end of the stick here. They had far more Perks which synergized with each other and which are not really useable anymore. Things like Luck Stacking, stacking healing or Haste stacking were mainly done by Survivors. Meanwhile Killers are not that much affected outside of very certain builds, but the most popular things (Slowdown and Aura Read) are barely affected.
This is so embarassing what on Earth?? LMFAO.
Oops meant to quote this.
Yes. Because survivors make up 80% of the player base by necessity. There's more of them in general so more of them will be bad at the game, that's statistics. And the vast majority of players fall into the low to mid tier MMR range. The initial skill threshold to be even passably good at DBD is incredibly high to begin with and requires hundreds if not thousands of hours of gameplay. The percentage of the player base that actually has that many hours sunk into the game/will be willing to sink that much time into the game to get good at it is a very small amount of the overall player base.
This is true for killers as well. Though there are plenty of killers that have a much lower initial skill threshold than survivor does on the whole—there are some that are very difficult to learn and have a high skill threshold, but there are undeniable killers someone could immediately 4K with without much game experience.
The bulk of the player base aren't comp level SWFs at the top 1% of MMR ranking. The bulk of the player base are anywhere from mediocre to kinda okay at the game. And quite frankly, that's the cohort the game should be balanced around. High MMR players are the minority and any changes made based on balancing complaints at their skill level will only turn the game for most players into cock and ball torture.
I'll die on this hill because the people who are "super bad at the game" are MOST of the player base, and if the game continually drives them away by making the game punishing for them to play.
there's no way to make the game balanced for terrible survivors who don't engage with mechanics that doesn't make competent survivors always win
The idea that killer players should be pushed to their limits pulling out all the stops to have a positive winrate against survs who barely touch gens simply isn't it
Lastly, not everything that happened to killer was justified. Saying that hints at tribalistic mentality which is the last thing we should be enabling.
Trapper can trap harder pallets, ghostface can hide his red light.
If someone is chaining a pallet against you, that's on you.
Why on earth would killers get basekit buffs if tunneling wouldn't be fixed? You're out of touch.
I didn't say that. I said that by and large the player base on both sides is NOT high skilled, high MMR, and that as a result, balancing changes should be made around the player experience of the majority of their players.
I also never said that killer players should be pushed to their limits to have a positive winrate. Especially because there is, quite frankly, no world in which that's going to happen because the game is balanced around a 60% kill rate. But the fact of the matter is it is vastly easier for your average player to pick up a killer (not all killers, but at least a solid portion of the roster) and immediately win games than it is for someone to start out as survivor and win games.
I don't see why people have to conflate 'balancing changes that don't make survivors want to uninstall the game' with 'all killers should have to miserably sweat in order to get a 2k'. Those things don't go hand in hand, one does not equal the other.
Yeah this is why misinformation and "fake news" is so powerful - not only is it incorrect, but sows enough seeds to erode trust in all sources of information.