Game is WAY KILLER SIDED
it’s not even a question. I play both survivor and killer a lot, and EVERY time I play killer I am getting a 4k or a 3k if survivor camps hatch. When I play survivor, it seems the killer gets the same results I usually do and I die 4/5 times even though I am doing everything well. Not even sure how to fix this, maybe less heavy gen requirements in order to power exit gates? Seems like all my teammates refuse to do the one and only win condition…
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If you find this version of DbD, throw a copy my way please 🙏
I've had enough of the disaster that is solo queue these days.
Winstreaks are everywhere. I think some actually got bored after winning thousands in a row and it's actually not done out of boredom. Like, how long does it take to play a thousand matches ? MMR doesn't work when the balance is so broken anyway because how do you even have MMR when skill is meaningless?
Keep pretending there's nothing to it. Survivors that are smart know.
The problem is we have a lot of "I can't believe this game is allowed to have long killer winstreaks", and it's like "yeah, that's because people wanted matchmaking to be less strict".
But for reals, BHVR could just easily fix the problem by bumping up the map rigging. If a killer has a way higher MMR than the survivors, then just super rig the map in the favor of the survivors. Like, if it's a Blight player, then fill the map with irregularly shaped line of sight breakers, and irregularly shaped loops, so the Blight player can't easily navigate the maps with his power. In general, the number of jungle gyms, and safe pallets can be boosted. And the generators can purposely spawn super far apart.
What do you mean "paying to win?"
Agreed it's an MMR issue. MMR just doesn't work well at all in this game the way that they have it set. If you remember when MMR was strict, there was almost no winstreaking going from killers. I remember it well. Most killer streamers were getting absolutely dumpstered by organized SWF like every game over and over. It was incredibly bad for their viewership to be losing and getting 3 - 4 hooks every single game. You can revisit this time through the Suffering with MMR YouTube series.
😂 your joking right?
I don't know that they really need to or should do that but it would possibly work. Id be curious to know how close matches actually are MMR wise. Id also like to know if it's kind of evenly mixed as far as the matches go. If more survivors get paired more often with less experienced killers, vice versa, or if it's just mixed across the board.
I think most matches are ok, which is why the official stats always have the kill rates and stuff in the target ranges.
The problem is everything breaks when there is a player that is way above the soft cap.
why don't you pick up a killer, record every match you play and show us how skill is meaningless? You sound like that kind of person who'd say "everyone can do winstreaks" and then loses against most mid teams because "they genrushed".
Momoseventh, holder of the biggest Blight winstreak for example is a long term comp player and the best Blight player in the world. Do you think he would reach even 1/10 of that streak if he was a very average player?
Yeah I kind of feel this way too. Balance wise, and in an ideal world, the MMR would be close every match and queue times would be great. If they tried to tighten the MMR now though, or even widen the MMR range, I can't imagine what queue times would be at that level
Nice dismissal. You are the kind of person that dismisses all proof that doesn't fit your narrative.
It makes you wonder if this observation has anything to do with the horribly long killer queue times…
nice dismissal? Sounds like you are the one dismissing everything shown to push a hardcore us vs. them mentality simply because you are expecting to consistently win with pure casual training for this game
You want to win as killer all the time being bad at the game. You know, you could git gud like some killer mains and literally break the game. Or, somehow does that somehow apply to only one side? Seems like you have a strong Us vs Them rooted intentions. My intentions are simple: a fair game.
Tell me about it. I've been duo-queuing and the amounts of killing themselves on hook, dcing, and general giving up that I see cannot fool me that this game is entirely more killer sided.
I honestly feel like the gen spawns contribute to that. The amount of times I've loaded into a game and I've seen one side of the map have five gens and no matter of using Deja Vu can fix the problem.
It feels like Dead By Daylight just has so many issues that it becomes a habit for people to instead give up and DC as you can easily queue into another game just as fast (as long as you're not consistently doing it too much).
It feels like you're doing household chores when playing survivor a lot of the time.
In a game with SBMM this should never be possible, regardless of the player’s skill level. Because their opponents should be equally skilled.
The fact these players are “long term comp player[s]” does not make thousands-long win streaks justifiable. It’s shambolic.
this is why i am saying SBMM needs to be drastically improved. I am not justifying winstreaks, i am pointing out to the exact source of the problem: terrible matchmaking, and i really hope BHVR does something to improve it in future, because it isn't okay for 0.01% top player to be matched with players not even close to their skills.
This would be equal of a challenger League of Legends players constantly being matched with Platinum-Emerald players at highest.
Bro, at this point when the top 1% are tryharding against these broken ass Killers. How do you think a new comer is gonna feel? Or a seasoned player watching all their perks getting nerfed and dumb ace perks like self-heal still up and running the same it always has. What, next you're gonna say we all have to learn how to 360 and Moonwalk just to play normally. That's just ridiculous. The norm shouldn't be laced with bull crap mixed with depression with a stupid shine of secrets that's basically more of a kick in the balls than anything paired with ridiculous grinding quotas that make me wanna pull hair out just to get one new character or pull my wallet out and feel bad about myself for perpetuating this unholy cycle of a smelly homeless man of a game. It's not a skill issue when I have to meet a Myers with infinite Evil on a closed indoor map with hooks around every corner..that's just bad game design. Skill issue is playing Killer in the first place...cause you can be braindead and still get a 4k.
Again, you'd have a point if it was low double digits, but with a winstreak of over a thousand, even in blind matchmaking it has to hit a similarly skilled team at some point.
at some point yes and that point would be far beyond what his winstreak was :)
if game averaged less than 2k players a day, you might have a point, but with game averaging more than 30k players a day, let's say maybe 10k at soft MMR cap at least and possibility of repetitive opponents to come by, the number of actual matches that would need to be played in order for Momo to finally meet a remotely skilled team is...way way beyond 1947.
1/3rd of players being soft cap MMR is a very generous estimate from someone who says survivors are all just plain bad.
Also, apparently, BHVR has in the past stated that only 5% of the playerbase were in 'high MMR', with the soft-cap being raised after that. Which makes 33% off by a factor of 10, most likely.
So we're not looking at 10K players, we're looking at 1K.
@NarkoTri1er @Firellius
The game averages way more than 30k players a day. Right now it has 26k players playing at this moment on Steam, not including all the other systems.
However, this is then not just split up by MMR, but also divided up around the world.
So let's say there was a 100k people playing when Momo was playing, but we split that up to various servers. Let's say he's on one of the more popular regions, we cut that down to 20k. Of that, 4k players should be playing killer and thus can't be matched with Momo, so we have 16k survivors. 5% of that player base should be in his MMR range, so we're talking 800 players above the soft cap.
If out of those 800 possible opponents it takes almost ~2k games to find a suitable match up, the game is killer sided. Even if we estimate he only hit an even match up every 100 games, the chance of that streak is in the tens of millions. On top of that, remember for him to lose the streak the survivors can win or tie. For the streak to be realistic and say he got a little lucky, you need to be saying he was only hitting a challenging match up like every 300 to 400 games.
soft MMR cap is so low and thus it's oversaturated. There are way too many players in that zone because it's so easy to reach and, because of that, we have a high matchmaking inaccuracy problem.
i mentioned Steam only due to it being the only reliable sample i can notice. But overall, matchmaking takes every other platform into sample too, meaning.
In terms of balance, this is another external factor that has nothing to do with actual balance in terms of buffing/nerfing/tweaking stuff. If you'd really want pub zone to be far better way to determine balance, we would have to raise soft MMR cap by significant margin in order to actually have much more filtered out playerbase. This way, you'd never have accurate balance views outside of comp zone of DbD, because it's the only place where people can actually reliably be put into similar skill levels.
Other than that, game would definitely need some sort of ranked mode in order for most accurate kind of matchmaking
That's the thing though, that's what I just wrote that you seem to have skipped over:
That's not true.
At the very least, not to the extent that you're trying to portray here. According to BHVR, it was less than 5%, -before- the soft cap was raised.
I was watching Zubat and friends try to go on a 3+ out streak a couple months ago and they were struggling to get past a couple dozen. These are guys who are undoubtedly among the best in the game (I think it was Alby, Tofu and Xeno that were in the 4 stack). I could be generous and mention the EU stack (Hens, Dan, Laser, Lumpy), which had a ~180 escape streak around the same time of the famed MomoSeventh 1.9k streak.
Top killers can go nearly 2k games before they meet an even match, but top survivors can only go a couple dozen to (not even) a couple hundred, even when they're in a 4 stack? Yeah, somehow I think that isn't just caused by the matchmaking system.
Wdym what do I mean? Check the store and see for yourself. Plus, do you know how long and hard and annoying it is to get iridescent shards as a survivor? Just to get survivors that have decent perks that don't suck? Trust me, grind the game for a while and you'll see what I mean. How crappy the survivor perks are…how op the killers perks are and how much grinding you'd need to do just to get the characters that have good perks that aren't nerfed into the ground...or you could just play them and take the easy way. I shouldn't have to pay for anything to have fun or last in a game.
ok. Show us your own killer gameplay so we can see how easy it is to win consistently. Since you claim the game is so unbalanced, you should have no shortage of footage to show how easily you can survivor teams.
I have been playing this game for years, yes you need to either "grind" or "pay money." No one is going to make a game completely for free my friend….makes zero sense. It takes money to run, not hopes and dreams. I doubt you played this game years ago when you could barely get bloodpoints to buy addons etc…ahhhh…those days were horrible! THAT was a grind. I hate that you are frustrated, but it sounds like a resource issue not a game issue.
Either you are playing against babies 24/7 or you are the best killer player in the world.
Former, just play more and enlighten yourself on the wonders of genrush and crutch-ego wannabe 'juicers'.
Latter, stream and do tourneys. If you actually are skilled enough to pull that off above the softcap, please bless everyone with your secret formula.
I wish it was heavily killer sided. Playing survivor is boring because there is almost no challenge anymore and playing killer sucks because survivors only want to mess with the killer half of the time.
Yes, you need money to run a game...but what does that have to do with the overall experience a player can have in the game? I can see many games that do the same thing and aren't seemingly unfair or would feel like you would need to pay to receive some quicker advantage. Valorant is a perfect example...you die because you get outplayed or out-experiences, regardless of exceptions. It's an overall fair playing ground. Overwatch is another game that dabbles in micro transactions and does NOT affect how strong the player is and is an overall fair experience and win or losses depend on a players overall experience. Playing survivor is an overall oppressive experience that feels like the killer is way wayyy too strong...an experience that is met with even seasoned pros crapping the bed. I get the killer is supposed to be oppressive, but AGAIN...we've seen it time and again. ONE, the killers are CONSTANTLY getting buffed and the only thing survivors use the absolute most, their PERKS are constantly getting nerfed and downsized to confirm to high level killers that complain or otherwise. The killers perks and items have barely changed or have even been buffed while survivors perks go through so much flux and change...ruining creative builds and consistent kits that gave players learning the game or those that know the game well, a chance against the harder killers. That margin for creativity has drastically decreased and even the killers base kits have changed, making the prospects of winning feel even bleaker.
You really think I haven't played the game or know it's past...the way things were, I'd agree there was a time where survivors were pretty strong and the killers had a very hard time with experienced players, leaving many many killers in the dust...almost leaving them with a 0-1k most of the time. They started nerfing survivors, making maps more killer friendly and removing some survivor advantage over time, even adding more hooks and buffing the killers. BUT, they just kept doing that and keep doing it still. It's gotten severely out of hand at this point. Survivor has gone through like 2 or 3 different perk culls, nerfing many loved and used perks...even now. SPINE CHILL sucks, SMALL GAME isn't useful or practical anymore, PREMONITION isn't useful or practical anymore, SELF-CARE is basically useless and looked down upon if you do use it, SLIPPERY MEAT isn't used cause of how impractical it is compared to other perks, DECISIVE STRIKE is horrible now, DEAD HARD is so hard to use given the demanding time window for use it's basically ALMOST useless, BACKGROUND PLAYER....I mean come on. I could go on and on. I'm not basing my complaints off of baseless bull. It's real, and people still talk about survivor problems TO THIS DAY. I'm far from the only one
You said "pay to win?" I find the game experience fine, not great, but far better than it was a few years ago. Can't really have a discussion with you as I don't think we both speak the same language.
It seems more the case that a lot of survivors just have main character syndrome so badly that they're ignoring the format of the game and just giving up when they realize they won't be able to absolutely stomp.
I hit a generator with driver's license yesterday and three people pulled the plug, I hadn't hooked or even stabbed a single person yet.
Check it out:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2385083333Or camp.. or tunnel... or a nurse with BBQ/nurse's calling... or immediately coming back to the hook... or have sloppy butcher + gift of pain + coulrophobia/nurse's calling... I had my whole team that had only one hook out of all 4 of us lose against a nurse with nurse's calling because they didn't know she had it.. basement trapper with strong add-ons... or a Michael with the vanity mirror add-on who literally slugged my whole team because he could see us made them all bot then was waiting to mori me at the end.. slugging with knockout/hex third seal there's a lot of ways the killer can win.. had a dredge the other day camp at 5-4 gens and killed all of us now people would say it's because of how survivor sided it is explains why they camp but for 1. It's 5-4 gens and you got 3 hooks already it's not that bad (which is how 85% of my matches go) and 2. I've had plenty of killers play as they should and still get a 4k
I don't agree with this argument but YES BRING BACK DEAD HARD 🙏
Oh hell no
Of all the things BHVR has done, taking OG Dead Hard out behind the barn and putting it down may be the best
😭😭😭
And 1 person was able to do that, through sheer luck. Wow, that proves so much.
Yeah, I think the problem is that people who see "all" of these streaks have a hard time conceptualizing just how many people play this game. It seems like there are a lot of them, but we're talking like a fraction of a single percentage point of total killer players doing this sort of thing.
Pretty much only the most dedicated players on earth, really.
Yeah, it shouldn't even be possible in a fair game, but it's not like it's at all common. Your garden variety sweatlord isn't ripping off 200+ 4K streaks.
As you say, the exception doesn't prove the rule.
That is pretty wild, but I still say my match takes the cake. I went up against a Ghostie and all three of my teammates decided to DC, and I cannot fathom why. By the time the third one DC'd, we had three gens done, and the Killer had no hooks. He finally got his first hook (on me, of course) after all the DC's...
Killers want to pretend it doesn't happen much. The people that controls BHVR doesn't want a fair game.
The same so skilled players would never win more than two or three matches in any actually fair and balanced game.
The game is basically as balanced as it can be. It's an asymmetric, 1v4 game.
Nurses and Blights who are trying to win > SWFs who are trying to win > Killers who are trying to win > Casual SWFs > Casual Killers > Solo Queue
This is basically how the game has to be balanced. With the exception of Nurse and Blight, but Nurse at least is unfixable without making her an entirely new character and pissing off the people who enjoy playing her.
Killers need to be a little stronger on average than survivors. If the game wasn't slightly weighted in their favor, it would be an unapproachable role for all but the most dedicated players.
Conversely, survivors should have an edge when they're communicating well and bringing all of the best perks and items. If they didn't, then solo queue players would almost never win.
win streaks by the top killer players in the world prove nothing about game balance for the vast majority of the player base. Let’s think this through here: top killer player in the world is going to be playing against far inferior opponents most of the time because there isn’t going to be a constant stream of comp SWF teams lined up to play against them. So as top killer is going through his win streak, most of his matches are going to be like a 99% chance to win because of the huge gap in player skill between killer side and survivor side. He’s only going to encounter full teams of similarly skilled players every so often, and even in these matches he will have an advantage because the devs have already stated many times that the game is slightly killer sided by design.
None of this means anything for a vast majority of players. If you are winning too much as killer, you will progressively get matched against better and better survivor teams. I’ve experienced this myself by playing killer - it’s easy at the start and then you hit a wall where it becomes difficult to win consistently.
look at the overall win rate for killers for the entire game population. That’s what really matters for telling us something about game balance. I’m sure I’ve said this to you before, but if you are so convinced that the game is overwhelmingly killer sided, try actually playing killer yourself. Not just a few matches, but actually put some hours into it. You’ll eventually see that it’s not nearly as easy as you think it is.
Likely a nurse or blight. Those two sre just broken. Killers as a whole arent getting wins like that. Nurse and blight definitely needs to be taken down a notch. That being said, I've seen survivor teams do 500+ wins, so it goes ways.
You're right I play both sides too and killer is extremely easy, I can 3-4K on auto pilot. For comparison, to be as good at survivor as I am with 3K hours in solo Q, I only need max 200 hours to reach that success level playing killer. In others words, killer is easy mode in the game, far easier even than SWF. The killers that think it is survivor sided are profoundly delusional.
Iirc, the current world record escape streak for a 4 man is by a comp level team and made it about 240 games. Solo queue is double digits, like 40ish.
But clown is over 800. Blight was almost 2000.
Your "500 streak" players should submit their evidence for the wr title.
It’s amazing how many god-level killer players we have on this forum. But it’s so weird how we have never seen any actual gameplay from all these pros
Someone in this same thread called a 2k winstreak "sheer luck". Which proves what I've always said regarding the "show your gameplay before you're allowed to have an opinion" crowd. It's a red herring and any evidence presented will be disregarded.
well when you play survivor you are solo queing so of course killer is the strongest . In solo queue a perkless trapper has a high chance of winning so that tells you alot. The tjing is when you team up and use callouts on discord .
win streaks by the top killer players in the world prove nothing about game balance for the vast majority of the player base. Let’s think this through here:Except what are we talking about then? When people say killer is too easy, the response is just 'well that's low and mid MMR, yes its killer sided', but when people point out the killer streamers with massive win rates the answer is 'they don't count'.
So as top killer is going through his win streak, most of his matches are going to be like a 99% chance to win because of the huge gap in player skill between killer side and survivor side.If we're presuming that 99 out of 100 matches he wins by default, with only one match being competitive, that means he had to win 19 competitive matches in a row. If each of those matches was a 50/50 the chance of pulling that off is 0.02%, and that is presuming a 0% chance of losing any of the other matches.
If we're presuming every single match he had a 1% chance of losing, getting 1900 wins in a row would be extremely small, I think that's 0.0000001723%.
That's why people bring up win streaks. You wouldn't just need to be the best player in the game, you would need to be so much better than your opponents that very few matches are even competitive. It makes the idea that high MMR is filled with sweat squads seem silly.
If you are winning too much as killer, you will progressively get matched against better and better survivor teams. I’ve experienced this myself by playing killer - it’s easy at the start and then you hit a wall where it becomes difficult to win consistently.Sure, that should be true.
Except difficult to win consistently should be the norm. If you being matched with players of the same skill as you, even something like a 5 game winning streak should be rare (3.125% chance being we're talking odds). A ten game win streak should be a cause for celebration (~0.1% chance).