Killer behaviour is appalling during events
I see Chaos Shuffle has started and decide to hop on after a week break from DbD. And how do my first two games of the modifier go?
Get matched against the same slugging Pinhead twice in a row. Like come on. Why are some of y'all SO determined to be as miserable as possible? And for those who'll come in and say they're just using it as a strategy or some other nonsense, no they aren't. Obviously I can't show it here, but their username was a taunt that made it 100% clear they're doing this to annoy everyone.
I'm so done playing survivor during events. Sick and tired of being treated as a prop to be pushed around by disgruntled killers.
Comments
MMR systems can't work like that. Survivors lose MMR when they bleed out, which means killers need to gain MMR when a survivor bleeds out. You can't have a situation where a survivor is worth negative MMR points for both the survivor and killer.
Well if you don't care then what are you trying to achieve here? Isn't that somewhat the equivalent of standing on a soapbox?
If you don't really care to prove to me that against statistical odds you have this experience then there is like I said, nothing that I can do. I am not sure how this is meant to help anybody or improve anything, other than maybe serving for your own entertainment I suppose.
But you see how this might look? If you believe that you somehow beat the odds and are trapped in some sort of ELO hell then you gotta contact BHVR Support. At this point, all this discussion does is exacerbate an overall uncomfortable atmosphere that serves no purpose, since there is no clear definition of certain key factors, unsubstantiated statements and a lack of care on your part.
I'm really trying to see your point here, I hope you know this.
Putting survivors in cages automatically once they've been slugged for 60 seconds would incentivize full team slugging since the killer knows the survivor will just get a hook state if they're left on the ground. I don't see many cases of 4-person slugging myself, but the number of instances people are reporting indicate that it's not as uncommon as it should be. I imagine we shouldn't encourage it more.
If all 4 survivors have been slugged for 60 seconds, there's like a 99% chance the killer won the game if they don't pick any of the survivors off the ground.
So how would this be any different? The only thing that is being changed is how long the players are stuck in the game. If any of the survivors had a way to pick themselves off the ground, or could crawl through an exit gate, they likely would have done that before the 60 seconds happened.
Did I misread your original statement? It sounded like the suggestion was that if any survivor is slugged for 60 seconds, they go into a cage 2v8 style. I could have read it wrong :/
Pretty sure it's because you keep taking everything they and others have said to you in bad faith.
I'm in NA I I've continued to see bad behavior in this event and outside of it lately. So have many others. No one wants the game to be in this state where it's easy for someone to continually grief and prevent others from participating in play.
You keep failing to see anything from our perspective and frankly, it seems quite useless to talk to you about any of it. As rude as that sounds.
When you keep saying how "this community is making up stories" and "whining and complaining" etc. I hate to say, it makes you sound arrogant and unwilling to be understanding of others. Why would we want to keep discussing things with you if it feels like you aren't listening?
Pages in and you keep dismissing our concerns and experiences of the game. We've said our piece multiple times yet you refuse to accept it.
I did say that, but then you said it would incentivize full team slugging.
This change would actually make it more difficult to full team slug, because the slugged survivors would get teleported far apart from each other, and the killer wouldn't see where the survivors are being teleported to, so it would be much harder for a killer to defend slugs, and much harder for a killer to attack survivors that are trying to help slugged survivors.
Right, but most killers struggle to reliably slug a whole team anyway. Killers like Billy and Blight are going to be best at it. But they can leave a slug and go hunt for other people without taking the time to hook if they know the slug will just go on a hook in 60 seconds. These killers would lose even more incentive to hook for players who are thinking of going for a slugging build.
I don't think i have ever played a DBD event during my 5 years of playing DBD where there was an event that was chill on both sides especially since SBMM was introduced
At the end of the day you can only blame BHVR for allowing SWF to ruin the entire game.
Just now, the last four games I played as Onyro, all against bully SWF where I could do nothing. Then the next match I get is SoloQ and they all DC after I get my first down and build up condemned, so I let all the bots escape while I go make coffee. Then the next match I play is against a toxic SWF that all DC the milisecond they ruined a sabo save with breakout, so again I go make something to eat while letting the bots do what they're going to.
Then I play Surv in SoloQ and I'm just faced with tunneling/camping/slugging Killers, P100 Blights letting everyone bleed out on the floor at 5 gens.
The game is beyond atrocious and the focus needs to be redirected to SWF mechanics ruining the game for everyone else and BHVR's refusal to do anything about it.
The same who gonna argue "because we need to do that because I can't win otherwise"?
If a killer is leaving a survivor on the ground, and is therefore making zero attempt to defend them, then 60 seconds is long enough for another survivor to pick them off the ground.
And the time saved by not hooking a survivor, is offset by that fact that slugged survivors are essentially getting 60 seconds added to their hook timer, and that killers won't be able to bypass the hook timer via slugging. It makes prolonged slugging much less time efficient.
I am absolutely not. Quite the opposite, I am trying to understand the situation. I'm not here to "have faith" in whatever story you just happen to tell me. How can I tell that you are not trolling me? I am not saying you are, but you could be. So I give you the opportunity to help me understand what's going on.
Don't tell, show me, I've never seen any evidence of it. I am not trolling you when I tell you that I do not experience any of those problems you mention. Is there 1 in 50 games that really bad? Yeah sure man it's soloQ what do you expect. It seems that you experience not 1 in 50 but what… 45 in 50? More? I cannot believe you because this claim seems ridiculously exaggerated to me because of the vast difference in experience.
I don't want the game to be in a bad state. I don't believe that it is, other than the terrible package loss issues and several other lackluster things we could argue about forever…
Yesterday I loaded into Rotten Fields on my P0 Quentin, no perks, no items. Just me in my first match of the day and what do I get? Clown it was, and I gotta say I have my reservations going against this Killer, it is generally an uncomfortable experience to me personally. Which is amazing, that is really great character design because this is exactly what it is supposed to feel like.
To cut a long story short I managed to loop the Killer for 3 gens, everyone got out since at the end the Clown DC'd. We had an amazing chat at the end, added eachother as steam friends and played several public and custom matches together.
So not only is my experience in Dead by Daylight not bad, but it's average at worst and incredibly amazing and rewarding at its best.
If I approach the game with the mindset of "I'm going to get mistreated again" then oh boy I believe that that can lead to a great variety of miserable experiences.
How do you think would I magically be able so see from your perspective? Let us for an exercise try and have you see things from my perspective, do you agree to at least try it?
That is valid criticism that I will address by explaining that "this community" i.e. the particular individuals who come here to read or discuss, has among it people who are reporting experiences that I find hard to believe since my experience is so vastly different. I want to understand, please help me to do so is all I can say.
What I cannot do is having faith in anything you tell me. This is the soapbox I talked about in my previous post. I'm not here to join a religion. If there is a problem, show us.
I am asking for evidence beyond hearsay.
If there are so many people here doing upvotes and whatnot, is there one of you who can deliver anything that could reasonably be considered substantial evidence to this? I am patient, I've got time. One month, two months, just send me a PM on this forum and we do it in private if you do not wish to do it here.
Anddddd here we go again! Some screenshots of the match I just played.
As you can see, Pinhead decided to slug from the onset of the match. And before you say, "But you're running Breakout! You forced him to slug." No I didn't. It's Chaos Shuffle and I didn't attempt to do any sabo antics, nor was I near my other teammates when they got downed to attempt to use Break Out (which you can see above).
The only person who Pinhead didn't slug was the Kate who rolled No Mither. He ended up getting Kate out the match with 3 gens remaining after which we were basically just trading who was on the ground while trying to crank the generators in any spare time we had. We got down to 1 generator left but unfortunately Meg bled out so it was down to just me and Alan. Alan managed to put up an AMAZING chase (props to him) and I popped the final gen. He went down a couple seconds after I popped it and Pinhead beelined straight to me and there wasn't much I could really do.
So I go down and instead of just hooking me and ending it, Pinhead decides to stand over me swinging and launching his chains at me right up until I'm 1 second away from bleeding me out. At which point he picks me up, hooks me, and proceeds to hit me on hook.
And that's EXACTLY how I know this isn't just about "playing to win", "playing strategically", "being competitive" or however you want to spin it. We're both on the ground with hooks readily available. It's not about the fact that we lost. That's fine. We might've gotten at least 1 person out if I played better. I can accept that. The problem is that instead of just taking the win, these people feel the need to drag it out as long as possible and rub it in the whole while. It's malicious behaviour that needs to be addressed.
Every single iteration of Chaos shuffle has been like this on both sides, sweaty that is. Killers get access to free tunneling since there is very little chance for a survivor of getting an anti-tunnel perk in Chaos Shuffle, killers also can get free slugs because it's Chaos Shuffle and Survivors bring toolboxes to rush out gens.
MMR isn't a factor for events, not sure why you mention it, and you can't see what is happening with it anyway. You are also speculating this aspect of the MMR system and have no way to prove what your are saying is true.
You're getting this too? It's been driving me up the wall lol
Yeah, there are pros and cons. I want to write more, but have to do other stuff for now. It definitely doesn't hurt to put the survivor in a new place the killer is unaware of in that scenario :)
Alright first of all thank you for the effort, I do appreciate it.
I will now simply narrate what I think about your points and maybe then you can see how I see it.
The first two images tell me you are playing on a Badham Preschool map. Amazing map for survivors, arguably one of my favorite Realms for both roles. Just a personal. There are many, many tiles and resources for survivors to waste tons of time against a Pinhead with little to no effort if you don't make any major mistakes like running into walls, running into a deadzone, giving away free hits. My personal recommendation is to hold W and book it whenever he wants to get tricky with his chain. It is really difficult to aim it and this map in particular is very difficult for him if he is not a decent Pinhead player.
Only looking at the first two images right now, there is obviously some time in between those two points, depending on conditions maybe 2 - 5 minutes, impossible to tell so this is just a guess. In that time a generator got finished while he was probably searching for the third survivor to down. Seeing that the Kate is reviving you and the Alan got injured in the meantime I assume that you got downed in Main, he left you for reasons I can only speculate about, downed Player 3 and went on to find the next player. At that point you were crawling out of Main and got saved by Kate while Alan finished a generator, which probably got the Killer a hit.
The Kate already has a hook state and seeing that the map is generally considered Survivor favored, since it is rich in resources, coupled with the fact that Pinhead is basically an M1 killer with a really difficult to control Power for many players (especially controller users) I can see that he probably tried to do the best he can to get Kate out, he just couldn't find her while accepting any and all free hits that were presented to him. In your second screenshots I see Pallets that aren't terribly weak if used well so in order for him to build effective pressure is to get one guy out.
Slugging you isn't really doing him any favors as there is very little difference to you spending your time on the ground or on the hook. In fact you still got 2 entire hook states you can work in your favor. So after getting a full heal from Kate, Kate should go work on a gen while you work on resetting Player 3. The gameplay is the same thing. Except when you are down you can actually still move around, recover and get picked up really fast. It takes longer to bleed you out then to just hardcore tunnel you out, even with crutch perks.
Yeah this is how it goes, but you actually managed to trade you way to 0 gens and that isn't even bad at all. You almost escaped.
Alright yeah that can reasonably be perceived as BM. If it was somehow provoked, I don't know since we only have hand picked screenshots. Maybe the match was stressing him out, maybe he perceived something you or someone else did as BM, maybe he's a genuinely bad person, maybe he is a hardcore Hellraiser fan and wants to role play lore accurate Pinhead.
Yeah they really do, absolutely. I'm the last guy to deny that there are people out there that actively use this game as a bully simulator. And trust me they get bullied themselves too, just in lobbies that you're not in so you don't see it happen. Believe me I've seen all of these things happen. Damn I did them myself just for the fun of it.
Hostage Doctor is by far my favorite method to show newer players just how bad things can get. When I play a hostage doctor you'll beg to get slugged so you can at least bleed out. The bleedout timer is much, much shorter than the maximum match duration. I tried it.
I won't hit you, you will not get insured for the entire match. But every second you do not spend in Madness 3 you'll get maximum difficulty skillchecks that just keep getting worse and worse. Go ahead, do your gens and you are free to leave.
Hilariously free win for anyone who just hits the skillchecks. This has been way more effective in the past and this too got addressed by BHVR in a sensible manner by adding a kick limit to Generators.
Alright so what I am going to need is somehow proof that every game of yours is like this, filled with people who just slug and BM.
How common is this really because this happens very rarely to me and if it does I just laugh about it. It's just a game.
At this point the only real bullying I experience is this package loss. When I play huntress I hit survivors with a hatchet, they scream like I hit them but they don't lose a health state. As survivor I sometimes teleport from one end of a Pallet Gym to the other. I always think I must look really goofy on the other guys screen, meanwhile I get absolutely scammed. Ruined many moments that could've ended really well.
EDIT: Just now I got disconnected from an active match. The server just stopped responding and closed the lobby. I am already at a 15 minute lockout due to this happening more often lately. It is verifiable not my connection since any connection tests that do not involve DBD are free from such issues.
This is easily my least favorite thing about DBD these days.
Today I've had a houndmaster that bled me out for absolutely no reason (even returned to give me a nod), a tunnelling Wraith at 5 gens and a Houndmaster that 4 man slugged the entire team at 1 gen remaining. She got the 4K with the finisher mori that she wanted if you're wondering.
So yeah, I think I'm good for playing Survivor in Chaos Shuffle now. I might even be done with Survivor entirely if things don't improve soon.
Why do I have to prove anything to you, a random stranger? You are taking things in bad faith if you need me to literally show you where I live. You are assuming things from the start. That's why we can't have a proper discussion with you.
And no, you aren't trying to understand anyone if you keep dismissing their experiences with "Well, it never happened to me so it must not be as bad as you say it is". That's like if I had a friend next door tell me they were being stalked in our area and my response was "It hasn't happened to me here, so it doesn't sound like a problem"
You are ignoring the experiences of other people.
That's why I mentioned before that you need to try and put yourself in others shoes—I sincerely mean that.
I'm not even trying to say this in a rude way, but none of us can actually really talk to you with the way you assume things. The discussion is already over before it began.
"Maybe the match was stressing him out"
"I play hostage Doctor"
"It's just a game"
Wall of text
You still refuse my invitation to see it my way even tho I kindly asked you to at least try. I am not even sure that you read my posts at this point. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you're doing here. But you and I aren't going to find it anytime soon.
Don't do it for me, do it for BHVR. They are the devs, not me. I'm just here checking out what people are talking about and give me opinion on it. I really love the game and some people here are quite frankly legit amazing personalities. I've made friends through this game.
This is just… what?
Nobody drops em like I do, baby. Like Babymegs on Badham.
If a survivor bleeds out, it still counts as a kill for the killer. Score events aren't relevant.
It also wouldn't make sense for bleed outs to be negative MMR for the killer. If killers that constantly bleed out survivors never gained MMR, then they'll never increase in MMR to the point where they can be matched with survivors that can handle that gameplay. It's basically saying killers could spend infinite time in low MMR, where it's likely those survivors would lose every single time.
you know it’s bad when the crows come out
Why is it the killer's responsibility to ensure that the survivors get to have fun? At no point have I ever felt that the survivors had the killer player's fun in mind. Teams taking advantage of audio occlusion bugs with flashbangs. Teams that contest every single hook with threats of sabo and flashbangs. Teams that bring a bunch of Styptics and Insta-heals. Teams that burn map offerings for Badham, Garden of Joy, and Eyrie of Crows knowing that they're the most survivor sided maps in the game. What do the survivors do to ensure the killer's fun is considered?
A bleed out doesn't count as a kill in any other aspect of the game, why would MMR be any different? The game even tells the player this right when the match ends. Also, check out streams of players who habitually bleed out survivors, you'll see they play mainly against beginners.
This happens to me too. Always when I’m having a good match as well 🤣
Same. Done every test and all the common troubleshooting steps but no fix. Guess we’ll just have to deal with it until BHVR addresses it.
I don't think this is accurate, but providing a streamer as a counter-point would violate the forum rules
Because it doesn't make sense for an MMR system to count a bleed out as an MMR loss for the survivor and the killer at the same time. That's not how MMR systems work. If one side of the game lost, then the other side of the game is supposed to win. It doesn't make sense to say that both sides lost the game.
Because, for reals, if you really think a 4-survivor bleed out is a loss for the killer, then you should go to all the forum posts where survivors are complaining about being bled out, and remind those players that the killer lost those games.
Survivors behaviour is just as appalling as killers
I've said before that the devs need to make bleed outs not count as kills. Simple. It won't solve this happening as some people literally will just troll anyway, but I guarantee it'll improve. Make bleed outs null, much like hatch escapes are.
This is possibly the worst idea for this I've seen, and sadly it's not the first time seeing it.
If you give people the ability to kill survivors and still call it a loss that's pretty much an awful idea all around.
Still get to 4k, but it doesn't give you harder games? Check.
Possibly 3k and get easier games? Check.
Incentivizing people to slug every single game? Check.
Might as well delete hooks at that point. The only thing people seem to care about nearly as much as winning, is not having to sweat for the next win.
Agree to disagree. I feel like a stagnant MMR would have more of an impact on certain egos.
Sorry i meant to say the que times were taking longer even with survivor incentive bonus, as if less people are interested in playing chaos shuffle in general.
i think it's definitely more about killers being able to force 3v1 faster than usual, while survivors are able to split gens immediately with ease due to Corrupt rarely being the perk you'll get, tho we can say they can rush gens easier. Not to mention medkits with Syringes too.
I tried chaos shuffle as survivor and loathed it entirely. Every match was slugging or tunneling on a whole new level. Had vecna tunnel me for five whole gens, dude only got two hooks. Other than that it has been exactly like what youre experiencing….rampant 4 man slugging. I did the killer challenges for the event reward and went back to normal dbd. But what greeted me there? the same thing, even a 4 man slug for the bleed out cannibal. I hate playing survivor so much now because of how bad the slugging is.
Wound up going full boon build with tenacity because of it.
btw im in NA (EAST) and it seems to be as bad here. That being said I do get a lot of VPN killers that are super toxic, usually from South America but I get a lot of French (not french canadian) and most recently Khazakstan
Chances are it's not a loss for survivor but counted as a draw like the hatch is. After all, the survivor has evaded the killer for as long as they possibly could and avoided sacrifice or mori.
As for bringing it up in other threads, I have. But a lot of players can't seem to process this information because it would invalidate their kill steaks and "skull = kill" mentality. Bleed outs aren't "I win" buttons that can be pressed to skip two thirds of the killer gameplay.
MMR systems don’t work like that. If someone loses MMR, then someone else is supposed to gain MMR.
It would be a major loophole, if killers could start a new account, have a 100% slug strategy, and never gain MMR. It would mean they would be at default MMR (or lower) forever, even if 3-4 survivors bleed out every single game.
Also, if all 4 survivors bleed out, the majority of players still consider that a 4k. The way you define “kills” isn’t a popular definition. Claiming that a 4 survivor bleed out is a 0k will never be a popular opinion.
It doesn't matter what players consider a kill, or how I define it, the game straight tells us what is a kill as of patch 6.5.0.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/371-6-5-0-mid-chapter
A player will NEVER get a Merciless Killer rating if a survivor bleeds out, and the rating will reduce further for every additional bled out survivor.
As far as the loophole you mentioned, that in fact what is happening.
I've commented once on this thread and wasn't planning to do more outside of upvoting with what I agree with. Mostly because I don't have the patience to argue with people who are intentionally ignoring the point. But after reading through the entire thread and seeing your responses to others, I have come to say my piece.
From what I've read, your main points seem to be:
I have seen you make a few other points about your opinions on gen rushing, SoloQ, SWF, etc but I think the conservation has moved away from that and so I will focus on the three points above.
Firstly, regarding custom matches, I understand where you are coming from. Yes, custom matches with friends is a fun and novel experience. I've done it before, I'm sure many other people on the forums have too. But you seem to forget that you earn absolutely nothing from custom matches. I actually want to feel like I've achieved something when I play this game. I find that's typically the reason people play games in the first place, because it's fun and rewarding. Once the novelty of 'oh I can kill my friends' and vice versa wears off, custom matches quickly become pointless and unrewarding.
If that wasn't the case, I truly believe many more people would only play KYF and there'd be a shortage playing live matches. Telling people to play custom does not solve any of the core issues raised in this thread and will not contribute to a meaningful solution.
Secondly, where's your proof? If we have to provide video proof that it's happening, then I want to see all your matches where it supposedly doesn't occur. If you can't believe the many people telling you that this is their experience, why should we believe you?
In fact, there's loads of proof that it's occurring. The numerous threads that get created about this matter every time an event occurs is quite literally all the proof you need. In addition to that, you have admitted that you partake in this griefing/trolling behaviour when you said you play "Hostage Doctor". If you are partaking in it, then why wouldn't others? And why wouldn't they take it to a greater extreme?
Not to mention the current giving up epidemic that we are seeing. Clearly there is a bigger issue here, that isn't just 'survivor entitlement' or whatever you decide to claim it is.
Thirdly and finally, why would so many people spend their time trolling and lying to you about this issue? People have better things to do, and honestly, you're not influential enough for them to all waste their time trolling you. I'm sorry if that comes off as harsh, but it's genuinely ridiculous that so many people would do such a thing and you trying to claim that they are is disingenuous.
I don't plan on responding to you after this. Your previous actions prove to me that you are going to ignore my points and just repeat the same tired arguments you have been saying for the past 6 pages. I'd like to be wrong about this, but I'm not hopeful. Despite this, I hope that others reading this thread will take what I, and others, have said onboard and hopefully gain a better understanding of the situation as a result.
Merciless Killer is based on the Emblem rating system, which is completely separate from the SBMM (MMR) rating system.
The emblem rating system also cared about how many chases a player was in, and how long each chase lasted. The emblem rating system cared about many things that aren’t relevant at all to the MMR rating system.
I am aware of this and it doesn't change the fact that the game does not score bleed outs as kills. The killer has objectives and if they don't complete them the game tells them they didn't.
When everything in the game that is visible tells the player that a bleed out isn't a kill, why do you think a hidden system that is based on the same game information would score it differently?
Because MMR scores a bleedout as a kill. It just does. Each trial is four 1v1s. The system doesn't care how someone dies. A gate escape is a survivor win. A hatch is a draw. And a sacrifice/bleedout is a killer win. The system would be even more of a mess if killers could essentially smurf by circumventing MMR gains.
I just got BINGO! with that “your fun is not my responsibility.” We’ve hit every excuse there is for a toxic killer behavior: pressure, no hooks???, but the toolboxes/gen rush, survivors are meanies who teabag ):, and finally your fun is not my responsibility.
Well done @OnryosTapeRentals your thread just gave me DBD bingo. Lol
Got ya, "is just does". No evidence, no proof, everything in game contradicts this, but for some reason unknown or proved to anyone, "it just does".
They’re correct though. A kill (no matter what form it takes) is an MMR gain for the killer. That’s just how the system works.
Bingo! Congrats haha
The thing is nobody can prove that is how the system IS working. Yes a kill is a gain, but the game is showing us that bleed outs are not kills. And the devs have started in their official communications that legitimate kills change the match result rating.
Without actual visible proof that bleed outs raise MMR there isn't anyway to logically come to the conclusion that they do.