New borrowed:
Finally this has been on topic for debate for so long killers like ghostface pig or freddy denying borrowed by just existing. And it finally counters insidious bubba countering camping kinda. Anyone else excited for this?
Tagged:
Mod
Comments
The patch notes just said "removed tr condition". Does that mean BT will work off the killer's proximity to the hook? Cause Id be fine with that. I remember the days of BT applying to both survivors. That sucked.
I didn't say it was your fault. I said that it mitigates the punishment for the team. If the team plays bad, the team should be punished. BT, as I said, severely reduces that punishment for playing poorly.
I gave an example that happened to me. I turned to look at BBQ and started walking towards the aura I saw, then I get the notification that someone unhooked and I immediately turn back.
Considering my use of BBQ and the popularity of BT, this is a fairly common occurrence. At least 2-3 times per day for me.
Mm, instead of punishing the unhooked survivor by not proc'ing BT for them, what it should do is add a risk: if the survivor with BT goes for an unhook within # of seconds, then the unhooker is Exposed for 20 seconds (or something). Punish the one who deserves it for making the bad play.
Exposed and/or Exhausted and/or aura shown, whatever, just punish the unhooker for being a bad teammate.
No matter what whenever unhooks done 12 seconds. No radius at all. Automatic.
You sound like you’ve never played solo queue survivor. There is still an overall punishment on the team, it’s just more so on the unhooker rather than the unhooked. Also the timer has reduced so it’s even more of a benefit to the killer, it now just works against stealth killers too so how is this change bad?
Hmmmm, I'd be interested in testing that out.
lol I really don't think it matters, he can just use iri flesh to make up for it, or go for the other person going for the rescue.
In fact, I think at base he is able to catch up to a survivor after hitting them when they have the endurance status effect.
So rather than travelling across the map in hopes that a survivor is still there where the aura showed you, you freely get to find a survivor. What’s the complaint? First you was complaining about them unhooking in your face, now it’s changed to when you’ve walked far enough away that you still can’t hit them. Which is it?
Grabs don´t work most of the time though.
I mostly play solo queue when I play Survivor. I don't think just an injury is a reasonable punishment for a bad save. I think a reasonable punishment for a bad save is that one of the two Survivors doesn't walk away from the hook, making the unhook attempt a failure.
At least i know i can make it out of the basement against one now though. The speed boost plus dh gets me to the window or the pallet either or.
@Pulsar
So killers will just remain outside of that range. Unless you are talking a pretty big range that could work, otherwise it's same ol' "proxy camping cuz I can".
BT has gotten buffs, because of the underlying issue with camping Killers. If you leave the hook you are literally never going to have to deal with it.
And I think that a health state plus free tracking is more than enough punishment. And again how is this worse than before? The timer is reduced, it just means the perk actually works against stealth campers but for all other killers it’s a buff
If you think BT only works against campers, than you never used it.
Survivors hookbomb, because they know BT gives them a guaranteed save. Now more then ever.
The shortened endurance timer was a reasonable compromise, although I would of made it a couple seconds shorter myself. I'm willing to try it. Most of the time with BT procs on me, it's because the idiot on the hook tanks an unnecessary hit to get a speed boost or something. I dunno, I don't see why you'd trade less time on a gen and more time mending when you don't have to.
I don't think it's enough. The end result is still 3 people back on gens and no gained gen pressure.
I don't think this is something that is necessarily exacerbated by the new changes, but it's just something that's bothered me about BT for a while. If you can make it so BT punishes camping WITHOUT enabling the scenario I'm describing, I'd be all for it.
If you make it a standard 32m and then say, the Killer has to remain in those 32m for 15 seconds, that punishes camping.
I personally think it’s enough, you still gain more pressure than when someone isn’t unhooked in front of you so the killer always wins in this scenario. But I’m also not against the suggestion pulsar made with the radius/time thing
People complain about camping etc etc but BT is one of and has always been one of the strongest perks in the game. I don't get why they keep buffing it, they legit want it to have no counters at all? I get that being camped is ######### but I see this perk abused WAY more than I see it used for anti camp, sorry but killers don't camp nearly as much as survivors like to complain that they do. What does happen all the time is some moron bombing the hook before the killer even has a chance to get away. Terrible change imo, gen rushing should of been the counter to camping, not a perk that is extremely easy to abuse.
They actually made the perfect change. I'm in shock. And I'm totally not saying this because it's the exact change I suggested many times in this forum. But I gotta give credit where credit's due.
A quick note, a distance-based condition would've simply meant high mobility killer could've just eluded the perk.
If you don't like the change, I've got the perfect suggestion for you: go for the unhooker. Insert mindblown.gif
You know,the buff to BT is fine in my book.
I'm just dissappointed that it doesn't remove the collision of the unhooked survivor with BT.
It's incredibly annoying to get bodyblocked by a survivor with BT while you actively try to go for the unhooker.
It's the same problem with old DS.A defensive perk that's used offensively
See, I don't agree with that, personally. If the end result is you have to chase either the BT'd Survivor or the injured unhooker, you don't really have any pressure. If you leave, and the unhook happens by the time you are halfway across the map, that was time spent by the unhooker either running to the hook or waiting for you to leave, giving you some breathing room to push someone else off a gen. You don't get that opportunity really if you immediately have to deal with someone in front of you shielding their bad save with BT.
I mean, stealth killers need a different buff. Crowd Control already helps stealth killers quite a lot. Having slightly more movement speed so they can be more hit and run-like killers would be nice, or having some basekit that warns you about people healing alone with a medkit or selfcare to pretty much remove the biggest weakness stealth killers have.
Stealth killers definitely need a buff. They have a slow start and their power often can't be used at full scale. Since survivors detect them to soon.
While I understand the intention behind the change, it's still a huge buff for egc, where there is 0 counter to BT now.
this is a MUCH needed change for BT I'm so glad they finally listened to us.
I personally like the change to BT, but I can understand the concerns being brought up as well. I feel the PTB will give a lot of insight and feedback to how the changes work in many different scenarios.
I think the following should be added to the updated BT:
The number of Tokens at the start of the trial is an example.
It affects camping stealth killers* FIFY
What a shame /s
Can't wait for people to still not run it anyway because they'd rather run Urban Evasion or Self Care and farm me off the hook before the killer can even leave.
Most of the time when I run across it as killer (when the person I'm chasing goes back to hook and goes for a save) it's when a survivor stays in my face cause they desperately want me to hit them to stroke their ego, so having a shortened timer will be nice.
This does nothing to STBFL users or Bubbas though lol.
@EQWashu
Until the game understands the difference between different actions (IE Being forced to 'farm' a hook because killer was camping vs simply farming because you have BT) you will keep seeing these type of differences in opinions.
Many times I have been forced to save a teammate reaching struggle because the killer chose to camp them and I had no choice.
Sign me up I love oni compared to GF and pig anyway
Also anyway how is it OP. The timer is shorter so if they are bodyblocking you can just wait it out
@Phasmamain
Words that will never come out of my mouth 😂
Oni hater here only because I really suck against him. 🤣 Nothing against Oni players.
Sorry, but this is a silly response. If a stealth killer isn’t camping or proxy camping, this change doesn’t hurt them.
Great news!!! Rip camping!! Amazing!
It still not good against a camping bubba because bubba can eat through bt easily
How? Just don't camp. And yiu won't be affected by this. That simple. This coming from a Myers main and I love playing Wraith now and rarely get hit by bt. Because I actually leave the hook. Unless of course survivors are around and then that's less time now they have for bt protection. But I still never tunneled the one saved. I ALWAYS went after the unhooker
More bodyblock with BT, yeaaah.
Understandable, I am seeing very honest and diverse opinions, and constructive discussion and ideas being discussed about the change as well. And, I can agree I have had times I have had to make risky rescues myself. I'm looking forward to when the PTB goes live to see more in regards to it, and the other changes, put in action.
I like the change but it should have gone hand-in-hand with another small change; that the Survivor who has been hooked must have been on the hook for, say, 10 or 15 seconds, before Borrower Time gives the Endurance status.
Survivors can still bumrush the hook and free the Survivor before the Killer is able to vacate the area, and in doing so they get rewarded for bad plays and even get the Safe Hook Rescue score event, for making a literally unsafe play.
I’m good with new Borrowed Time though. But it needs a limitation - hook time limit so the Killer at least has a chance to not trigger the perk through no fault of their own.
sigh looks like I'll have to update my how to counter borrowed time guide... /s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8HihqfXc_oBut seriously, a welcome change. It never really made any sense that certain killers could still camp for being... certain killers.
If they make bt 8 seconds instead of 12 it'll be a fair change. 12 seconds is pretty unfair now that it will activate without TR.
If the perk is to prevent tunneling the person off the hook, why do you allow it to be used aggressively like DS to give an extra health state to the rescuer?
Why not make the rescued survivor lose collision so he remains safe without allowing abuse of the perk? This would even buff the perk for anti-tunneling as it even protects them from chain hits like a Bubba saw.
I realize the patch notes say that BT doesn't require a TR to activate anymore. Are people just presuming that there isn't another condition such as the killer having to be e.g. 12/14/16 meters close to the hook? Or is it confirmed that it does activate no matter where the killer is?
Think theyd have said if anything else big was added to it. So far it just sounds like a auto activation. Your unhooked no matter where or what the killers using their protected for 12 seconds.
Me agreeing or disagreeing depends on the distance.
They just said they removed the terror radius requirement, so I would want to see if the distance is 32 meters, or if it's more or less before making any statement like that.
I mean at what distance do you consider proxy camping? 32 meters? That is likely what it will be but what if it's 40? What if it's only 24? It's probably 32 but I want to see what they went with on the PTB I've been surprised by BHVR before so we'll see lol.
The flashbacks commence
True lol
So you´ve never seen a survivor run towards the hook with the killer behind? Unhook the survivor, use DH to avoid getting downed and then both run away?
Killer doesn´t has to proxy camp in order to make BT trigger. Survivors just have to play aggresivly. Like they used to do with DS...