I just remembered why I quit playing for the past four months.
SFW. Specifically, SWF on comms. As someone who enjoys playing Ghostface quite a lot (especially DH Ghostface), SWF ruins the killer experience for me. Survivors know that I'm coming before I've even fully left where I was, and by the time I get where I'm going another gen has gone off behind me.
I can deal with Brand New Parts. I can deal with the occasional multi-survivor hatch escape (as long as it's not all four). But I can't stand SWF players using 3rd party software to gain an advantage in a game that isn't balanced for that.
So, I'll be going back to checking Steam profiles before the start of every game and lobby dodging SWF. And if the queue times get too long, then I'll just quit again.
Because using 3rd party software that provides an in-game benefit over the opposition is the definition of cheating.
Comments
Can you cheat if the match hasn't started yet? Stream sniping to see character and perk selection, yes. Sizing up your competition? Not so sure
Exactly, and just like queues will always be a thing vocal chats will do the same :)
@spenzomatic
Emotes provide little context? Do you play survivor? There have been plenty of matches where I was being chased meanwhile someone else went to cleanse a hex because I pointed in the direction of where it was when I spawned near them. Let's not pretend like a little bit of conversation missing doesn't get the message across.
Again, I don't see how someone who plays fully immersed is going to somehow...magically just get better during a chase. What I am trying to say is that telling my friend "Hey guess what, their Ruin is where you are located currently", isn't going to make them perform better when they go down because they didn't look behind or overestimated the distance they had before they should have vaulted a window. Advantageous information doesn't improve the skillset needed to escape the match.
The gap is not meaningful because I don't think the gap is as big as you think it is. You only have to truly understand both sides to know this.
If I advertise my Discord in my name it wouldn't be any different then.
Also throwing out that a lot of times SWFs aren't even on comms.
Sometimes it's people who just met in the game before, enjoyed playing together, and sent invites. Like how dare people make friends in the Fog!
Your complaining about SWF. All you have to watch is the killer god, otz play solo queue survivor to realize it is nearly impossible. If there was only solo survivor this game would be dead in it's tracks. It's hard enough to play the game in general with 20 min queues just to get facecamped. You need your friends to make the game enjoyable and to actually give you a chance. Otherwise when your not getting facecamped your watching a claudette in the corner self caring or a nea crouching around the map while you advance hook state.
As usual when a killer main complains all the snotty nosed children start crying and throw tantrums.
Fear not little children soon you'll be looking for something else to play as killers disappear.
I recently had 2 players hiding together behind a tree in a far corner of the map. 3 gens left 2 survivors gone. They were running spine chill and comms.
As soon as I got near they ran off. They then split up one each side of the map. Fast vaulting to attract my attention so going for one ment leaving the other.
No intention of completing the gens just out to be toxic.
Not all swf are toxic but this game will die if killer isn't improved to counter this type of attitude.
Anyway they soon got bored when I stopped moving. Came looking for me eventually and both ended up dead in basement.
Playing killer (especially learning a new one) leaves you at a huge disadvantage and unless something Is done to improve the balance then this game is finished.
So using the chat option that is built into a console is cheating? Is using a better monitor, headphones, mouse, or cpu also cheating? Turn off your in game chat and post game chat and then no one can be mean to you.
Propaganda garbage... that whole exchange was so forced. LOL
Retroactively saying that SWF was intended... LOL It never was....
When the game released there was never any talk about that and if you go back to the original videos when the game came out, they never once speak of voice chat and I think they said it was meant to never have voice chat for the reason of breaking immersion... so I mean.... yeah, this is a bold faced lie.
What meta? You literally just said you wasted your time chasing two players hiding behind a tree literally accomplishing nothing while you let two players work on gens. I play both sides and I see more illegitimate complaints come from survivors than killers by far.
sounds like a person that turned off cross-platform and thinks discord is cheating
Except Twitch is for content; Discord is for in-game communication... You're trying to prove a false equivalence.
Then the devs need to include comms for solo survivors and balance around that. You can't ignore the enjoyment of the killer portion of the community; queue time are long enough, aren't they?
So many people are saying that swfs aren't sweaty, but thats a bunch of bs. 99% of the time, they tbag at the gates. How is that not people being douchebags? The only complaints survivors should be making is when they get camped our tunneled. Outside of that, it is always survivors who act like asshats in game. So much of this forum is clearly survivor-mains trying to justify giving themselves additional advantages. "Then get better at chases" misses (or ignores) the point entirely. The game is already tilted in the survivors favor. If you need more advantages, maybe its you who should get better at the game
Nobody is arguing the strength of swf and I feel like half of your statement is explaining it's strengths. Everybody should know it's strong if they're on the forum. However, even on console ( I play PC but used to play console ) they allow you to be in a party chat, and I've played games before where they physically don't allow you to be in a party chat because it wasn't intended for the game. I don't believe this was the case for dbd. Calling something like discord cheating just seems like a cop out in my opinion. You can coordinate saves and such in solo survivor too, it just depends on your overall game iq. I can communicate my perks in the pregame lobby too if I feel necessary. The problem isn't that discord or other 3rd party applications like it are cheating. People lose in dbd often because of their inefficiency, and that goes for both roles. OP isnt happy that the swf know his location while he's a stealthy killer. It sounds like there are more pressing issues here lol.
That is a fair point, but so much of the current dbd wasn't originally in the game that it seems a bit mute to me.
I understand what you're trying to get across. There are scenarios though where that devour totem was really a haunted ground totem. There are perks to help protect them aswell. My main point before I get too off topic is that if OP is having trouble with swf knowing his location as ghost face, there are other things he/she might want to worry about first. He's one of the few killers that can negate BT if I'm not mistaken, which is huge. He can also use his stalk power on and off which makes a skilled Ghostface damn near unable to be revealed. Communication and information is definitely trump in dbd, that goes without saying. But understanding that as a killer and using it to your advantage also plays a role. Swf tend to be altruistic to a fault. It's just my two cents but there are a lot of killers who give up the maximum on killer shack & other strong loops and then in the end game complain about "swf". But in reality, they decided to take a poor chase against a strong looper, in an even stronger position. A lot of people who lose can't even tell you the correct reason they lost, and that's a bigger problem if you ask me. Also to touch on the totem thing, 1 smart survivor can make you give up that totem just by leaving and coming back repeatedly. No communication at all, just good running and understanding the mindset of "you can protect your gens or your totem but rarely both. If you protect gens, I do the totem, if you protect the totem, (hopefully) my teammates do gens. Comms is beyond strong, don't get me wrong. But I don't believe it's strength makes it cheating.
"If they intended it to be in game, then they would've balanced for it. It's not supposed to be used,and due to poor foundations of coding they can't stop it. That's why it could be classed as cheating."
Wait, hold on, I'm not saying that DBD doesn't have terrible coding, but what does that have to do with stopping SWF?
Liar
All these salty killer players and sock puppet accounts fill me with joy.
I still don't understand what you mean when you say "due to poor foundations of coding they can't stop it."
What can't they stop because the code prevents them from doing so?
The issue isn't coding against comms. The issue is coding comms in for solo and balancing around that
Haha, yes, believe me, I agree that DBD is not very well made.
But I think you don't understand (maybe you do, you kind of get to it at the end), you cannot stop comms by coding. You can't (ethically speaking at least) program a game to disable a hundred other programs. Not to mention telephones exist.
I respect you have an opinion, and I don't want to come across as that guy who just says "giT gUd", but you realise most 4 man groups are actually pretty chill and perfectly winnable right? Also comms has its downsides.
It also states clearly in the rules that communication software is allowed and is not considered 3rd party cheat software.
In the state the game is now, all the killer crutches provided and neverending survivor nerfs and map nerfs, if you are still struggling against SWF I have only two specific words: Git Gud.
The most hilarious part is killers don't even need to git gud. Devs will nerf survivors more and give killers more crutches. I can't wait to see how OP the next killer is with another new meta game changing killer perk and the survivors have more garbage perks.
Yeah, just git gud.
SWF is a very difficult thing to balance, because you cannot assume all SWF groups are the same. If you nerf SWF, then friends who simply want to have a chill time will be unfairly affected, even if the sweat squads in the minority are nerfed.
I also disagree with your point that "most [red rank SWF groups] tryhard". I personally see no evidence for that as someone who plays both sides at rank 1. Playing well is not necessarily try-harding, and basically all groups can be beaten if you play well enough. If you compare 95% of SWF groups to real tryhard groups (like competitive squads), then you'll see who's really tryharding.
In my opinion, the best option is to buff solo queue by having built-in Kindred and basic communication abilities (not comms though) to bring solo queue closer to SWF, and then buff weaker killers to bring them a bit closer to the more powerful killers like Nurse, Spirit etc... This way everyone wins.
For the communication thing, here is my reference:
"[You cannot use] 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage that wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. We are not banning for the use of communication apps."
Source: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
i will not let the toxic SWF win
Part of why I said "ethically."
But good luck disabling Discord, Skype, Zoom, Facebook phone calls, Windows Live, Google talk, shared Twitch streams (btw, your coding probably shouldn't disable Twitch, since it's earned media for BHVR)...
And all of that can be easily ignored by simply owning a smartphone, so that's a lot of work and angry companies to make (checks notes) ilovedbd123 happy.
"My question to you is, other than the suggestion I've displayed above, how would you balance swf."
Well, I'm unconvinced that SWF is specifically unbalanced, but admittedly, the game is way more fun SWF than Solo on the survivor side. So spitballing ideas (which is pointless because it will just lead to responses about why they won't work, because I know they won't work, because I'm not a DBD game designer, but I guess I need to post to avoid accusations like this)...
I'm coming at this purely from addressing the issue of "A killer who can easily beat solo players usually loses to SWF, which is unbalanced." Not worrying about anything else like theming right now.
One solution is add voice communication built into the game for those who want to use it with strangers. Additional emotes even would help beyond "point" and "come here" could work as well, though at a certain point that penalizes console players even more than they're currently penalized, so you're probably limited to four emotes.
More creatively, let the survivors not just be different skins of each other. Give them unique powers like the killer has so that roles are more obvious to a team. Let Claudette be really good at healing that no other survivor can replicate so that when solo players queue, they can recognize that their team already has a healer. Immediately upon joining a player can see how the team fits together, even without chatting.
Perks could be far more interesting, and bundle information along with an ability. Perks could exist to share that information as well. Kindred is one of those weird perks that's really good, but it's best when the one with it doesn't get to play the game (is hooked). That's just weird for solo play. Let kindred or an ability like it work for everyone much easier.
And while we're at it, let survivors see what perks each person is bringing (or couple this with the "make survivors roles unique" above). And not just with pictures. There are too many pictures that limit all but diehard players from recognizing a perk. Use words or something to be clear so that players can say "Oh, I know that's Empathy, they're playing the healer." (This is a suggestion I think needs to happen for killers as well).
Once all that is done, solo play and SWFs becomes much more similar. From there, you'd have to see what problems the killer side faces. One big thing on the killer side that I think needs reworking is the perks as well, because in my experience, there are maybe ten or so perks that winning killers run, and that's far too few to be healthy for the game. I can't blame the Corrupt Intervention/Nurse's Calling/BBQ/Pop build, because it's undoubtedly "the best," but I would like to see more variety. But like I said, I'm limiting this to how to equalize SWF and Solo play, knowing that stopping SWF is impossible, so it's mainly how to buff solo play to SWF level. Beyond that, if that's too one sided, you'd need to look into how to get a killer to a SWF level, which is another post entirely.
If you'd like to read it, let me know. :)
There is no set of perks a survivor can equip and significantly improve the chances of winning like killer can. Everything worth a damn on the survivor side is extremely situational, 1-time use with a long laundry list of preconditions tailored for killers. Even the Deliverance perk requires you to unhook someone first. What if you are the first found? It's a dead perk. Dead hard hasn't worked in over a year. Killers can clearly hit you during the animation, distance can't be properly judged due to dedicated servers. Even with the new patch, killers can still swing through a downed pallet. Solos don't have a leg to stand on.
Finally someone that's not salty. #removeDS #removeKeys
Yes I play survivor. Please tell me what combination of point and come here emotes is code for "I'm being chased around the killer shack, so if you're elsewhere feel free to slam that gen", or "Hey I'm in a chase, there's a hex totem I just passed by the cow tree", or "Hey the killer is proxy camping but I have BT so let me go in for the save"?
"Hey guess what their ruin is right by you" won't make them perform better but it sure means that hex is going down faster which can change the outcome of the entire match if the match is close...
Are you still convinced it's cheating? Or has the source that was provided to you earlier changed your opinion?
You didn't ask me directly but since you seem genuinely interested in suggestions to narrow the gap between swf and solo queue play, I'd suggest something that doesn't revolve around communication, because I don't believe communication is the main thing creating the gap. And even if it is, comms currently seem to be an intended feature strictly for swf.
However, I'd suggest no duplicate perks in swf. Let survivors choose their perks in the pre game lobby and make them unavailable as they get chosen.
People would be forced to run different perk combinations which should in theory be great for the game. It also eliminates running into 4x meta builds. No more 4x DH, BT, DS, & Iron will (or whatever the current meta is).
I think it would need some tweaking, as for when that system should and shouldn't be implemented. But for a 4man swf team I think a perk rule of some kind should be a step in the right direction.
People suggesting % changes for things like movement and recovery based on the amount of swf don't account for how inconsistent that would feel for both sides. I don't think I need to spend much time on that point lol.
I'd also be all for proximity chat with killer included. For no reason other than pure enjoyment.
Real quick back-to-old-habits post though, I am against anything a developer controls that makes the PC substantially different from Console. So I wouldn't recommend the NumPad for emotes because a controller doesn't have one.
You trying to say you've never seen a killer pick up and drop a survivor over and over, or carry the survivor to the gate/hatch then mori them right next to it? Hell I had a wraith stand on hatch until he went invisible and downed me as soon as I saw it and started running at it. There are several toxic things killers can do. Noed is one also. You guys complain wanting things to be so strong against sweaty survivor with friends that is makes it so no other option is viable as survivor. It's already to that point. It is so unfair nobody wants to solo queue and even duo queue is falling by the wayside because you nearly need a swf just to have a chance. Even if you're a good runner your teammates are almost always at the level of beginners.
People should stop considering all sorts of advantages as "cheating", but at the same time it's funny the hypocrisy of the community where if you do something such as using a third party program to put a crosshair on Huntress, it's considered cheating and unfair, but using Discord is totally acceptable because "it's just playing with friends bruh nobody is good at the game stop complaining"
I dont think it’s actually cheating since the official discord has VC channels specifically for SWF
I just want to not get hit through pallets by buggy autos lol
Voice coms in a SWF is not explicitly cheating, but the advantage it gives is the same magnitude as a wall hack cheat. Anyone who denies this is wilfully denying reality or simply not utilizing the tool in an effective manner. Even if your team is "just shooting the #########" on Discord, it is disingenuous to say your conversation never strays into in-game DBD related info.
This all being said, I don't think coms should be bannable, nor should SWF. I simply want people to stop denying reality.
I was referencing playing killer vs red ranks in SWF on comms being unfair. I know you guys have fun with it :)
SWF is a big draw for players. I dont play swf very much but, it's always fun.
Be thankful that a lot of people still choose to play solo.
Yeah well, it's driving killers away. Just look at the queue times.
They need to buff solo with quick chat, totem counter and some way to know what gen to prioritize. Then buff killer as needed.
Will never happen.