Why bamboozle is an outdated perk and needs a nerf.
So I dont think bamboozle is op but I want to clarify on some maps its really strong and it's not on other maps. That's all I as trying to say. I dont necessarily think it needs nerfs maybe a change to make it more consistent. It gets neutered on suffocation pit.
Comments
Bamboozle doesnt need a nerf. Its an already terrible perk that doesnt come in as handy as it used to be. Bamboozle billy and bubba is a good thing to the killer but if you as a surviour know how to loop and counter it then you can use their own perk against them. If anything i think ormand needs a nerf cauase f that map with the RNG pallets and windows. If people really wanna nerf a already not good perk then thats on them. But i get your points, and all im saying is it really doesnt need a nerf.
Bamboozle was created with infinites in mind. The majority of infinites are gone. The perk was not designed to give killers who lack chase ability an ability it was designed to bandaid fix infinites. That's all. Its outdated and getting indirect buffs because they keep putting space between jungle gyms.
Which is every chase for the killer -_-
In a map like rancid abattoir where the tiles have good spacing and you can actually chain them. Bamboozle wouldnt make you drop the pallet early. If you drop the pallet before 2 or 3 vaults that's an early pallet drop especially at a jungle gym.
The perk wasnt always like this. Survivors actually had jungle gyms to use back in the day or atleast 2 years ago.
In all honesty, it sounds like you've been screwed over by the map RNG rather than bamboozle. Even reworked maps still have the RNG aspect of potentially having loads of safe loops, windows and jungle gyms or just TL walls and hills
If it's used in a jungle gym you still have the pallet, killer shack you still have a pallet and TL walls you still have another window. Plus once the killer uses it you then know he has it and to get away from a window they've blocked.
I do agree that it's an outdated perk since it was a band aid fix to alot of strong infinites back when it was released but I wouldn't say that means it's now OP or anything, just redundant
It can be weak, but it can also be strong.
Thompson house is more killer sided than anything. That map can only have 2 jungle gyms and then the rest is pallet gym or TL wall. Shack is also the only other static thing. Filler pallets are RNG and with how they w ok nt leave pallet rng alone you barely get any of those.
Bamboozle you actually think it's overpowered it's not that hard to counter first time It might get you. But second time you know they'll likely vault so run to the next tile.
From what I've seen, tile spacing wasn't very drastic at all. You still have Macmillan's 3 LT walls in one place etc. Bamboozle is only strong when there isn't another tile with vaults close by within 15 - 20 meters. Nerfing Bamboozle would kill the perk entirely.
Did a recent bamboozle cost you a game?
Reworked maps became a catch all for survivors. Even though the maps were barely touched and most of them given better loops to compensate, the running narrative is "KiLlErS hAvE OP mApS, SeE, NO SAFE LOOPS NO GOOD LOOPS BAMBOOZLE BROKEN IT STOPS A WINDOW NERF PLS"
I just ran against Bamboozle on Thompson House this week, wasn't that bad once you know, because you can adjust your pathing before you have to vault. As I said, probably post a video, otherwise I don't see your problem, rather than you doing it worse than me, and some others, as there are already enough responses that don't have a problem with it.
The perk is even useless on tier 1 for example. Or at least useless in many of the stronger loops. Take the big saloon loop for example, tier 1 doesn't block the window long enough, just running the default root is long enough to unblock the window again. I think killer shack is the biggest loop that you can use tier 1 on, and especially on that example, you only need to pull one successful mindgame and Bamboozle becomes useless again
That's quite a list of conditions. You need to be at a gap (and a survivor can be aware of that before the chase starts) and having Bloodlust 1 means that the chase is already taking some time. In an optimal chase, bloodlust should not happen, meaning landing a hit or destroying a pallet every 15 seconds. If you force him into bloodlust even if he has Bamboozle, you have already done it right and having the need to bloodlust with a chase perk means that the perk definitely does not need a nerf
I dont think its op never what I said nor implied. I just said its outdated because most infinites are gone. Also because of the lack of windows you cant properly counter it. The only tiles you have are filler pallets which are down in about 10 seconds.
What are trying to say? They never gave better loops to compensate. Let's look at badham it has terrible pallets. Alot of them are unsafe and you can side step them and get a hit. Also nobody said killers have op maps, nor have we said no safe loops or good loops. Bamboozle is just an outdated perk.
No but its still a cheese perk on some maps.
Bamboozle on Thompson house is if you are fine with throwing the limited pallets and praying rng went easy on you. Ill probably get like a friend and play in a custom and showcase what I mean by the distance between windows is too large.
That map Is the maps that actually dorsnt really space out the tiles at all and clamp them together.
I'm sorry but you're talking about the new windows and tiles in thompson house and specifically it's your only example. But thompson house is brutal for killers because of the pallets around the house alone.
If the killer blocks a window at a jungle gym, run to the house and loop them there away from a window that they can't block. The pallet there are insanely safe.
Yes indeed git gud.
And that ought to prove what exactly? You should talk from survivor perspective, a killer running bamboozle doesn't bother me much as the first time he uses it I know about it when we are in a chase and rarely this results in a hit, i suggest you keep an eye on the killer this prevents you from running to a blocked window.
You made the claim, so deliver proof. Btw big brain play on your trapper, instead of placing a trap, use a perk slot for a bothersome window when your power had ended the chase much faster. *slowclap*
It doesn't need a nerf, but if you must...
I think a good nerf would be there is like a 2/3/5 second window where you can vault a window after a survivor vaults it and block it.
I think it's fine. If it were really a problem I think more killers would be abusing it.
they keep putting space between jungle gyms because jungle gyms are strong against a majority of killers and spacing in the past made them feel helpless as a majority of the cast, plenty of windows in this game are 2-3 free vaults anyway, cutting it down to 1 as a perk helps bandaid fix any rough map generation as well for the killer because it gives them a way to fight back.
The perks original intension is gone, that doesn't mean people already weren't using it for any other reason.
I've never had it stick me in the rear end,so maybe I'm biased.
All I've seen it good for is to force an early palet drop sometimes, never really seen it literally shut down a chase. As for running to a different tile, yes. You still can in a lot of cases. The removal of some safe tiles so they can't be chained isn't as previlant in new maps as your making it sound.
Yeah bc the game is only fun when you are winning right
Are you deliberately ignoring what I said and why the perk gives hits for free. Tiles such as jungle gyms have absurd space between them. Rng keeps filler pallets away from jungle gyms sometimes so it's a free ehitnwhen trying to find one.
Also I was referring to situations where he doesnt have a trap in his hand. I guess you could say wraith since his power doesnt help in chase. It's afree hit or early pallet drop.
The entire point of Bamboozle is to stop loops and force the survivor into leaving or starting a failed loop. This complaint just amounts to "When killers use Bamboozle, they catch me." Yes, that's the point.
I understand why they are putting space between tiles but on killers like bubba or billy it's almost a free insta down. You need to be able to chain windows to stop that type of insta down and besides chaining tiles is skillful.
You could technically say the same about DS people found other ways to use it outside of tunneling.
No that's not my complaint dont put words in my mouth. Actually it was meant to bandaid fix infinites :)
That is your complaint, I just went through all your posts. You're complaining it's giving "free hits" to killers because survivors don't have 30 options for an out when being chased. The perk literally is meant to stop repeated looping through windows and force a change in pathing for the survivor. The fact that infinite looping isn't the problem it apparently was in the past doesn't make the perk outdated or out of place, it means infinite looping isn't the problem it was and Bamboozle still stops repeated looping through windows. So yes, your whole complaint amounts to "When killers use Bamboozle, they catch me."
I never said is ant 3 options I simply shave been stating that chaining windows (bamboozled counterplay) isnt possible when the tiles have absurd space in between them. Then I said even if you try to chain a filler pallet they are down within 10 seconds and even then they are rng based so you might bot even have them to spawn.
Yes it is outdated you said it yourself they ni longer exist so the perk bamboozle is outdated. Infinites does not mean repeated window vaults it meant never dying when you had that window. I dont care about being caught it's how the perk takes no skill and you simply "outplay" someone due to its nature .
chaining tiles is skillful so when a killer blocks a window with bamboozle loop to another tile, case closed
I would if there was some.
Again, it is "When killers use Bamboozle, they catch me."
It's clear you do care about being caught, you just don't like you got caught when a killer has the foresight to take something that removes options you're counting on. There's nothing outdated about the perk, the perk arrived on Clown, who was specifically designed to make looping harder. By your own standards, Clown should be wrecking shop because his "Outdated kit" was designed for the infinite loop era and everyone is just open and without cover.
Windows still exit, 1-2 minute tile looping with windows still exists, all kinds of stall-the-game survivor perks still exist. The entire rationale for Bamboozle still exists. Just because it was introduced as a half-measure solution to infinite looping doesn't mean it no longer has purpose for reason within the game. If you're a window happy looper who always counts on having that one extra jump to extend a chase by 30 more seconds, then Bamboozle is for you.
My goodness are you deliberately ignoring what I am saying? My whole problem with the perk is that the counterplay which is either chaining windows or pallets isnt really reliable. The jungle gyms/ LT walls are absurdly spaced and you cant chain them, while the filler pallets are down within 10 seconds. Clowns kit was designed around anti looping not anti infinite his kit isnt outdated. The perk was designed around stopping infinites.
I don't deny window looping doesnt exist. Bamboozle is a killer dead hard in a sense it can outplay you with he press of a button. One more time. I dont care about being caught I just want to be able to chain my tiles and counter the perk.
It wasn't mean to bandaid fix infinites, bloodlust was.
Also, by the time clown was out, most infinites were gone.
Not most you still had iron works, wretched shop, rancid abattoir, groaning store house. Honestly I think the majority of infinites was there. Asylum definetly was. Coal tower, suffocation pit. Music nerd I can almost guarentee almost all infinites were still in the game.
I remember the asylum, rancid abbatoir and wretched shop infinites.
The rest just had god windows, not infinites, since the windows could still be blocked by the entity.
If you are referring to the god double windows on top of Ironworks, that was removed way before curtain call.
No I'm referring to the bottom window. That was an infinite. Also infinite is a blanket term since all those windows could still be blocked they were massive time wasters. Suffocation pit was an infinite. Coal tower had one that you could probably shift tech into a real infinite.
I'm not ignoring what you're saying, I'm just not sugar-coating what it boils down to: "When killers use Bamboozle, they catch me."
For whatever reason these forums nuked my first post, so I'll just be concise here. The perk wasn't the answer to infinite loops, it was the half-measure against repeated looping. You're complaining about a half-measure now being ill-suited for the game, because you're not able to extend chases another 30 seconds with another close loop/pallet. It's an absurd complaint.
so you can only do something with something, that would make you a mid level survivor, until you can do something with nothing.
Just leave the tile, that's it. Get hit and use the boost by going to straight to an area that has pallets. I'm assuming you're still brand new to the game with less than 200 hours since last 500 you have to have a good grasp on what to do and what not to do. Dead by daylight is the quote of "10 minutes to learn and years to master". There's till players that have over 4k hours of play time only to do a mistake that causes them the game...just get good man
No, I'm not ignoring what you're saying, I'm just not sugar-coasting what this boils down to: "When killers use Bamboozle, they catch me."
You haven't given any real reason why Bamboozle is a problem, only that because Bamboozle sometimes exists within your games, looping and outmaneuvering the killer with windows is less effective. Saying that there's "nothing to run to, nothing to impede the killer" phrased differently quite literally is "When killers use Bamboozle, they catch me." Repeating over and over that it was a half-measured solution to infinite looping is not a point towards it being outdated, it was a half-measure tool, not the supreme end-all perk for it until they solved the problem.
If the perk blocked all windows in a radius, you'd have an actual point, but one window over the course a chase, that (possibly) cuts the chase down 30 seconds while the entire rest of your team is pounding out generators is not the ill-suited design you're trying to paint it as and with your proposed nerf, you might as well delete it. 8 Seconds is it's bare minimum now and more often than not it doesn't stop anyone unless they're; at killer shack without a pallet.
So Bamboozle is a problem because its duration or usage outside of "intended use" ?
Just like DS?
I am just trolling, ignore this.
Bamboozle is the "I can't loop" perk by definition, no good killer uses it
I don't think the perk is op. Not at all. On some maps it lacks the resources to countering it sometimes. Also none of those perks you mentioned are op for the survivor side. They ate simply good perks, would you rather us use dark sense?
the perk is fine and if what you recommended went live it would do literally nothing at tiles, you could do to a jungle gym and let him vault the window and after just one loop the window will be unblocked, hell at cow tree a full loop could probably still last long enough for the window to be unblocked.
here's a comparison, hex blood favor blocks pallets but its considered horrible for 2 reasons. it doesn't last long enough with its range and its cool down is too long. what your recommending is worse than that XD
edit: also at loops with both a vault and pallet you can just switch to looping the pallet. look at how many people disagree with you and the perk itself isn't even meta. you can leave the tile and i'll disagree that you can't make it too another loop by doing that or switch to looping the pallet. if you get hit you get hit there's a reason you can get hooked 3 times before you die and you have 3 other team mates.
How are they trolling? They just want to start a discussion.
Doesn't matter leave bamboozle alone just keep running and what need a Nerf is DS so DS come first before any other perks that need a Nerf.
You want bamboozle to be nerf just to keep making the killer piss off and be annoying on keep looping and wasting their time and in the end they fail but sometimes you might fail because the killer camp you for that so on that blame yourself.
I was trolling, not them
Its OP bro because if your god tier looper meaning the 2% of loopers. Like the killer sucks at mindgames so yeah they use bamboozle. Like it totally shuts down a loop like even a simple loop like a T&L even if you outplay them. Bamboozle is for killers who suck at chases just like how DS is for survivors who suck at chases. Like you have to use pallets if you don't have enough distance. I run killers for 5 gens usually but if they have bamboozle it's literally Cheezy because I outplay them but oh you got bamboozled oh guess what I got outplayed by a perk not the player. Mostly killers who have a 1 hit down is what I'm talking about that's OP. Like leatherface bro I just hate bamboozle. Even Zubatlel says it takes no skill to use and he's a killer main himself.