Let's stop with this devs are bias towards one side stuff.
I find it very hard to believe the devs are "survivor sided" or have a "survivor bias." I get killers need buffs and some killers need reworks but damn stuff on the killer side needs nerfs as well. 1 nerf does not mean the devs care more about the survivors.
I'm going to keep making this point until it sticks. Since patch 2.0 it's been a nerf for survivors nearly every patch. How is that survivor bias? The pop nerf I dont think its needed but it makes sense. The devs have to rework ds not just decrease the timer thats why it wasnt changed yet.
One more thing if the devs are really all for survivors why have all items and add ons excluding fire crackers, keys and their addons(soon to be nerfed) been nerfed?
That's all.
I'm making this edit because people also say the devs are killer sided if they so something in favor of killers. So my new conclusion is if you say the devs are bias towars any side you are very much wrong.
Comments
the stun wasn't 3 seconds the animation ate most of it up. The reason for the buff isn't gone. Enduring made DS a 1 second stun and even with 5 seconds it would be more like 2. Why do you think they removed the red square that would indicate how much stun you had left? You could move before it was over. It isn't bias it's just making the perk do what it does well.
I could say the same about lightborn. Lightborn was here to combat flashlights. OP flashlights got nerfed. Pickup animation got reduced and yet Lightborn gets a buff? Could I say that is bias towards killers? Seriously you need to cut it out.
I mean, they very clearly are tho. All the why's and how's have been pointed out hundreds of times now. There is absolutely no defense for them nerfing pop while ignoring ds when the logic they used for nerfing pop is LITERALLY the problem with ds (it's not MUCH of a problem granted, but neither was pop). You can't ignore that, and that's just one example.
DS is an easy fix. Remove the timer entirely. When the survivor has fully healed or interacted with anything other than a vault it deactivates. And they get to use it twice. Done. We're talking an hour at most, maybe 2 worth of coding. Nerfing pop probably took them 20 minutes.
I have been saying that nothing but survivor nerfs until recently we are finally seeing some changes which is nice. The only "delusional killer mains" are the newer ones but they are simply inexperienced. On the topic of space coconut he have good ideas but it falls back due to the fact that he never plays survivor and yet makes bold claims.
You're very much overestimating how long it takes to fix one perk.
The explicit reason for the buff was Enduring. That's what the devs said.
No, you couldn't say that unless flashlights had been nerfed because of Lightborn.
So do you blindly believe all of what the devs say even though they constantly go back on what they say?
The example sticks. Flashlights nerfed. Lightborn buffed even though flashlights were already nerfed. Enduring nerfed DS buffed even though enduring was nerfed. The actions speak louder than words especially with BVHR but you seem to be on their side 100% regarding things.
I feel the devs are pretty capitalist sided
If the devs are so biased why arent my insta blinds, vacuum pallets, infinite, op fast vaults, insta heals, etc not in the game? If they are as baised as you think why have they spent 2 years straight nerfing survivors? Why have they spent 2 years buffing killers and still continuing to do so? Are you simply just oblivious or want a reason to be a victim? Its honestly pathetic. One more thing they have spaghetti code so any "simple" changes could bug something else.
No because you brought up how they are biased to one side that brings the money (survivors is what you are talking about).I then mentioned pop because it was recently nerfed and a lot of killer players are complaining and saying bias. Its not a bias to make perks to bandaid fix core issues its the devs being straight amateurs. The devs are amateur when it comes to this game they still have a mountain of spaghetti code which they refused to fix before it was too late. All the things you mentioned aren't even bias induces its just bad development.
So do you blindly believe all of what the devs say even though they constantly go back on what they say?
No, I'm presenting you with the evidence. If you don't think the devs are trustworthy, then there's no point in us having a discussion. You can project literally any reasoning onto them and dismiss what they actually say as a lie.
The actions speak louder than words especially with BVHR but you seem to be on their side 100% regarding things.
I am literally speaking out against BHVR in this thread, but that doesn't fit your narrative, I suppose.
They've been very slowly nerfing survivors because the number of killers fluctuates. They make a change, we come back, realize it still sucks, start leaving again, then they make another change. The biggest example of this was after the ruin nerf, people left en masse so the next patch was maps made smaller and God windows finally removed after 3 years.
Every patch for the past year has had some form of nerf to survivors...like, what?
They've been very fair nerfs, but nerfs nonetheless. Multiple maps were reworked, and in doing so, maps that were very survivor sided became majority deadzones, infinites were removed (outside of the Crotus Prenn Disturbed Ward one; I'm not sure why that one got to stay tbh) instaheals no longer exist...sabo squads are no longer viable/effective...(in this they actually managed to successfully buff solo play while nerfing SWF play, so bravo there, devs) and this is just off the top of my head.
But yeah sure buddy, killers get all the nerfs. :)
Its not that I don't think they are trustworthy but do to how they can't seem to keep their words on some thing I only take most with a grain of salt. They said they were working on hit validation and fixing hits so they don't look bad. Still bad hits that have been here ever since dedicated servers. Still getting hit through windows consistently. This type of stuff makes taking their word hard.
Yes I understand you aren't with them here but a trend I notice is when it comes to buffing or changing something a killer has people are always skeptical and saying its gonna be bad but when it supports their argument on a survivor nerf (example) its accepted. So we are talking about devs saying enduring is the reason for DS being buffed. These same devs have said different things regarding killer lock and why its bad.
It sounds confusing but the point is when it comes to BVHR they aren't consistent in what they say. It's better to look at what they do.
They haven't been nerfing survivors slowly its almost been a new thing almost every patch. What exactly do you want gadly? Do you want every map to have 5 pallets and no windows? Make suggestions don't just say the devs are bias and spit nonsense. They can't just make survivors incredibly weak or make chases impossible to survive that would kill the playerbase.
very bias... when says communication program like discord , team chat , etc ... are not their fault ( in QnA) ...
just add in game voice chat for survivor and balance the game with that... simple and not bias.... 😁😁😁
I did make suggestions:
And yes, it has been slowly, it took them 3 years to fix God Windows. You go back 4 years ago the changes look drastic, but it's been 4 years. Survivors back then were absolute monsters and it's amazing the game even survived. But it survived because of exactly what I said. Killers start leaving, behaviour makes a couple of changes, killers come back, rinse repeat. If they were truly unbiased they wouldn't make some of the choices they make. And Pop vs DS is just ONE example, and the most recent.
so basically survivors can just chose to have ds active whenever they want and just sit in the killers face with ds unbreakable and be invincible and effectively take the game hostage
if they want to run around not doing gens or cleansing totems, who cares?
I like alot of what you put into the post switches would be a nice start game concept. Although 10 pallets per game is terrible. On top of that half are unsafe ones which in order to get use you need good distance or a stun. Stuns are unreliable with latency and apparently you want survivors to move slower? So chase would fall out of meta.
The perk changes are good but you neutered object. It's a long list but some things need adjusting like 5 regions completely changes the game. That needs a little reworked. Also not to mention if there are only 10 pallets its 2 per region. Pallets are easy to get down well atleast filler pallets. That means a guarenteed jungle gym per region If that's a change you want made or atleast to make it fair.
Also chaining tiles is a skillful task not every survivor can do. If you want tiles to be too far spaces bamboozle has no counter.
this wouldnt be good for the team but would just be annoying af to deal with cus he will just always be sat there
Your truth
Well everything works together so let me explain.
Most maps have like 14 pallets right now, so this is just 4 less than that, but yes stealth would be more important. The meta would shift to a combination of stealth and chase instead of just chase (the really good survivors already do this today which is why they're such a problem at high ranks).
No I don't want survivors to move slower, I want to reduce the speed up they get after being hit. As I mentioned in the post. If you hit a survivor and they just run forward it will take about 20 seconds to catch back up (at base of course). 3 survivors working on 3 different gens will finish a quarter of a Gen (x3) just in the time it takes for you to catch back up after hitting someone. That's absurd. Yes it needs to be addressed, in fact it's probably the biggest hidden problem in the game. Everyone talks about gen speeds when the real issue is chase times. Anyone can do this, it takes no skill at all.
The perk changes go hand in hand with the other changes I made. You can't virtually make STBFL base kit and not gut (if not outright rework) STBFL. OoO is an insanely broken perk as it is today, it needs to be neutered. The change I made to it allows the surivors to get their information they want, but now it comes with a serious cost. Like No Mither, you get to get up as many times as you want to (which is very powerful in a slug meta) but you only have 1 health state because of it. The Killer being able to see you isn't a drawback, it's a source of frustration.
The Half Walls and LOS breakers would make up a lot of the tiles in between the pallets, yes. The idea being you're looking to actually outplay and trick the killer instead of relying on a pallet stun to get away. Probably high grass would need to added in making it more difficult to follow scratch marks. (I wrote this off the cuff so little details may have been missed like scratch marks, in fact I'd be fine removing scratch marks entirely if we also remove the red stain).
Bamboozle can be nerfed if it seems like that big of a problem, I don't see it used very often though and we're not talking about adding in a ton more vaults. Maybe a few extra per region. Just to be clear incase I wasn't clear on this in the post, Map is greater than Regions is greater than tiles in size. Tiles as they exist today would still exist, though they would need to create a few more tile types to include the extra half walls I'm talking about.
The perk changes I suggested don't work without all these other changes (except OoO, F that perk).
He only gets unbreakable once, if he's that kind of player slug him and keep chasing the guy you're after. After that he'll be a little more careful and look to get healed. Once he's healed Decisive is gone. I don't really care what people do if they aren't working on gens. If he's being annoying he'll get slapped which means he'll either spend time healing again or will get downed easier when I see him again. Playing around DS in my proposed change wouldn't be any different than playing around it now. The only difference is you won't down someone that's healed and working on a gen 57 seconds after you hooked them and get hit with a ds you forgot existed.
They are bias though. Sure they might not want one side to just be stupid OP but they do have a favorite for sure and you can tell based on their actions. I mean just think about the perks that get added into the game, other than undying killers get perks that are almost always a joke while survivors always get at least 1-2 that are extremely powerful in the right situations. Also DS still exists in it's current state.
That was an example, not exactly 50 but currently it's like 50-70 not 50-100 like I said.
And no, killers aren't immune to nerfs but usually nerfs ruin a killer badly, I loved playing as nurse, I can't anymore because of the massive bugs she has now, I still get the crow sounds and that.
And I don't believe survivors are close to 50 yet, since there is too much synergy perks for them meanwhile killers are getting synergy perks removed to an extent of course, some are "bugs" according to the devs.
do u know the part were i said its not a change that just made said item fair like instaheals and infinites and heavily survivor sided maps that still exist btw. all of these were broken and while it was a nerf, nobody felt like they should of stayed
Move the goalposts some more, bro. :)
I personally Think it's for 60-65 because most of the things are the survivor sides are just a shell of their former selves.
Nerfs havent ruined killers badly. As you seen in botb nurse was a top pick. Yeah she needs her bugs to be fixed but she clearly us still really strong to be a top pick.
Killer have strong synergy undying ruin, sloppy than, undying haunted grounds. They arent bugs and thsor are extremely strong synergies.
Every corporation is on the side of money tho. Behavior isn't your buddy cause they made your favorite game. They're going to make whichever decision that will keep the gravy train going despite people's complaints.
Undying + ruin is a strong combo that probably will get slightly nerfed since it's too strong but I've tried undying + haunted grounds, it's not really that strong as you'd think, if there all 5 totems are alive, pretending that no survivor has done a single totem then it is strong but usually if a totem is there it gets cleanse, that is just my experience, if there are no 2 dull totems available, haunted grounds will not get restored.
And I'm not saying that nurse isn't strong, I believe she is still top killer but there are still a few things that a nurse can't blink through even at fully charged blink.
Also, thana and sloppy aren't really that great, but I guess that is just because of how I play, and with the new buff to thana I think it can make things a little bit better but who knows.
Lastly, I wanna talk about breakable walls which in fact are in favor of the survivors until broken, it really doesn't make sense that those walls exist since most of the time they are just time consuming, the more the killer waste the more survivors gain.
So long as SWF remains untouched, I will consider the devs 'survivor sided.'
They cant touch swf they have to buff solo then killers. You should NOT punish playing with friends.
Didn't say punish. Balancing should not be punishing. They showed with the Kindred buff that they COULD work solo up to similar SWF levels, in terms of information, they just haven't put in the effort. At the very least, they could up the bp rewards for killers and solos if a SWF is in play, but no. They just pretend SWF doesn't exist.
Undying ruin is definetly gonna get nerfed. Its too strong against solo which is another problem of mine. In swf its fair and balanced but solo it destroys. It's the fact 2 haunted grounds can proc which is 60 seconds of isnta down and heavy slug potential. It doesnt seem strong at first but tis definitely powerful.
The nurse bugs are very tedious but it still did not stop her top pick in botb.
Thana and sloppy with new thana can potential slow the game down heavy if you get multiple hits. Either they heal and waste time or they dont and take longer gen progress.
Breakable walls on the reworked macmillan and main building dead dawg favor survivors. Badham has killer sided breakable walls.
Bias? I wouldn't say that but there are definitely maps that are weighed much more in favour of survivors (e.g Yamoka estate) and others much more weighted in killer's favour (e.g Hawkin's Lab). But I do find myself at Yamoka much more often than Hawkins for sure (as both killer and survivor) so idk
ThE dEvS aRe SuRvIvOr SiDeD cUz ThEy DiDnT nErF DS. ThEy ObViOuSlY hAtE kIlLeR mAiNs.
The devs aren't biased, their priorities are just ass-backwards. They mainly focus on getting new content into the game and shove balance changes off to the side when what they really should do is take an entire chapter AND a dev update without any new stuff and work solely on reworks and balance changes.
I'm starting to realize that the majority of the problems that people complain about aren't devs it's the players. The devs make something and the players are the ones that are "hey I can use this perk like this and there's nothing a killer can do about it?" and they go crazy with it
and for Killers "what you mean that I can do this, this and this with no way for survivors to counter.?" better do it every single time because this is a killing simulator not a hand holding one. Yes there are balancing issues and that on the devs but you really can't blame them when people figure out they can do something and do it.
One thing you left out and is one off the biggest reasons why people say the devs are survivor bias is when they change a perk it's how they explain the reason behind the change to the perk. Take Ruin when it got nerfed and the reasons why they changed it one i can think off is that it was not fun for low lvl survivors so of cause people are going to say the devs are survivor bias because they changed a perk because survivors weren't having fun.
People can go back and forth with what perk got nerfed on each side or a item/addon but the biggest thing that makes people think the devs are like that is how they word the changes to stuff, It's really not the best when they explain the reason behind the change and a lot off killer nerfs come off as they are doing it to make things easy for survivors. That might not be the case but that's how they are explaining the change if they explained the changes better then people might not have the mind set that the devs are survivor bias.
You can avoid hooks with new DS. Old DS could avoid the first hook if hooks weren't close enough, but it also had more drawbacks like enduring was a soft counter to stun, unnerving made skill check extremely hard to hit, skill check was literally 2x smaller than it is now. Also now if you kobe, get saved decently close to exit gates, Killer can only down you and you can crawl out of exit gates while killer can do nothing but watch. New DS is stronger than the old one
Ok so.
1. Fire crackers are a horribly weak blind item not even comparable to a key.
2. Keys and Mori"s should take a lot to use in a match
3. Killers actually got some fair map nerfs the past few updates Ormond,Badham etc
4. Both Survivors and Killers actually got quite a few meta perks for each side from the past few chapters. Soul Guard, Undying etc
5. Pop nerf literally is not that big of a deal you still got 45 seconds.
6. Honestly see Decisive Strike is strong but Unbreakable is even more broken.
7. Killer Add-ons can be just as Survivor add-ons and tools.
8. Survivors Toolboxs still need a light nerf honestly the charge add-ons due to the Comodious Toolbox.
9. Deathslinger,Pyramid Uncountable base kits are borderline aggravating and off putting for regular players.
I know the orginal poster said some of this but i'm saying i agree with them. Honestly a lot of good and dumb changes are constantly happening for both sides.
Getting to 35% wiggle state was not hard. If you were in swf you could easily bodyblock. Also hook spacing wasnt as bad back in those days you actually had to go somewhere to get hooks.
Enduring did counter it but with the number of pallets and how tiles worked back in the day it was fair. Larger maps, closer tiles, more pallets. Nobody ran unnerving it was a waste of an perk slot.
You needed good perks to weaken survivors overwhelming power. New ds doesnt avoid first hook which btw stopped the killer from even progressing towards their objective.
Do you understand that the killers couldnt even achieve map pressure, and had to go through another pallet eating chase. With how survivor worked back then old DS was simply broken.
You could say new DS is more broken because of how it works after hooks and how powerful it is at end game but really I think people forget old DS combined with all the op survivor stuff. Dont forget prepatch 2.0 vacuum pallets with old DS
Sigh you simply dont understand. Old was too hit or miss. Good players could consistently hit great skill checks and make the perk utterly useless. While bad players couldnt hit great skill checks and make it extremely good.
New ruin is more consistent for good killers who can pressure survivors off gens. It wasnt bias it was to make the perk less hit or miss and remove inconsistency.
Quick question: has any changes been done because of not being fun to low skill/newer killers ?
There's a lot of examples of that being a thing for low skill/newer survivors, like Ruin, Old Freddy, Pallet Stuns/Flashlight Saves...
The argument of quantity is really dumb:
First the Killers had more nerfs than Survivors (heavily because different killers need different changes and any changes to survivors apply to all of them);
Secondly Survivors were basically invincible on the start of the game (like 2016/2017) so it makes sense to nerf something like that;
Although something is nerfed it doesn't mean it is now balanced or it doesn't need another nerf (Spirit was nerfed at least two times and there is still room for changes).
The one argument that proves without a doubt how biased a team is to a role is the team's justification for changes. If dev/balance team says "We think x need a nerf because [role] isn't having fun and our priority is [role]'s fun" then a bias inevitable.
people say it because any negative changes to killer are always worse than it is for survivors..take the perks in the next patch..its very clear which perks were actually improved..as for pop..i think its been examined why its stupid already..
I do remember a line of text front the patch 2.0 that stated that loop size has been reduced to make it more fun for the killer. Is that bias? Filler pallets on autohaven, coldwind, and Macmillan used to be significantly larger yet they were shortened in the name of fun.
Low skill/newer killers have freddy and when the rank system works they have baby survivors.
Pop got a 15 second nerf it really is not that bad. Also killer nerfs have not hit harder. Can you give me an actually hard nerf to killers in the past year.
Quote from the Patch Notes itself "Pallet loops in the maps of Macmillan Estate, Autohaven Wreckers and Coldwind Farm themes have been tweaked in order to increase their fun factor"
Even though it's implied that the Killer's fun is in mind that change was made to better refine the loop mechanic with hitbox changes around loops and acceleration changes made on the same Patch.
Newer Killers have to buy Freddy and he isn't a free win as is implied that way. If "baby" killers face "baby" survivors why change something around that level of gameplay (low skill and full of mistakes from both sides) yet the Balance team still focus on changes that affect all levels of play for a better experience on "baby" survivors.
And just because of that last line, "Baby" Survivors have SWF, which isn't behind a paywall, and even without knowing friends to play, there are various Discord servers to play that way.
Onis original nerfs, ruins nerf was brutal, hillbilly took a big one unnecessarily, demo got nerfed before his release and look where he is lol..there are examples