Don't nerf Undying&Ruin combo. It is healthy.
- Rewards killers for active and smart gameplay like defending objectives or constantly moving around the map applying pressure
- Punishes killers for passive gameplay - 2+ perks wasted if killer tunnel visions someone or camps
- Creates a secondary, but not mandatory objective for survivors - you can do bones and do gens easier or forget about bones and have to finish generators in one touch.
- Makes games generally longer which gives more opportunity for everyone to have fun.
Let this stay, thanks. This combo isn't broken or overpowered, people are crying only because they don't want to adapt to it.
Comments
I think they should remove the aura buff on undying.
No reason for anybody to run thrill of the hunt anymore when this perk lets you know before they even start breaking it.
Other than that its fine, lets be honest if they removed the arua reading buff on undying people would still run it because its simply that strong.
It extends the game by a significant amount of time along with forcing survivors to play outside of the rush gen and just escape brain dead meta.
I play both survivor and killer. I see no reason why this should be nerfed. If it's this combo only you can be lucky and get the undying first, so the ruin goes next. Otherwise you get some extra BP. Not a gamebreaker at all.
NOED is tremendously more annoying. There are so many players (Trapper noobs) who play like garbage and don't even actually try, but in the end win anyway or at least get a lazy 2k. Trap the areas around the exit gates early on and completely ignore everything. Kinda bullshit.
Mori should also be removed. I play killer a lot and have piles of Moris i don't want to use. This Mori tunnel gameplay is just bullshit and no fun at all. For survivors it is very frustrating and for killers there is nothing to win. It's just toxic throu and throu. This whole "secret" thing on offerings is also complete nonesense. Uhhhh what could he use? What is he hiding there? This is gonne be a huge surprise to find out!
It's pointless nonesense for both sides btw. As if i care if someone spawns with someone else or all at one spot.
And then there is this unholy huntress addon. People just DC on huntress when she used it. Me too. I hope this is getting removed soon.
Sacrificing 2 perk slots for 2 hex totems seems fine imo, Some times you don't even have to cleanse totems if the killer can't apply enough pressure.
I honestly don't see the issue with this combo it's fine to go against shrug
While the combo is strong, it doesn't need any tweaking aside from reducing the aura reveal to like 4 seconds.
I think instead of nerfing it give more anti totem perks to survivors
Ha ha, you are scared huh !!🤗
Please devs nerf it, and nerf Noed too, nerf Spirit + Clown + addon pink Huntress + Plague !!!
That's for the tunnel, the camp, and ######### (figuratively speaking, of course).😗
I don't think the combo in itself needs nerfing, but I do think that they should make it so that auras aren't shown when near or cleansing dull totems. If anything, remove the aura reading altogether and instead make it so that the totem replacement can be done 3 times at tier 3. We could go even further and just remove the RNG factor and just make it that until there are no more dulls the totems will keep getting replaced.
You're right that it actually encourages committing to gens (not genrushing) more, even if it means letting a teammate go second stage on first hook; witnessed that a bunch both as killer and survivor.
Solos will always be in disadvantage.
Solos can always use perks like hunch to compensate that disadvantage.
Sadly this combo will be nerf in 3 month only because most killer will use it and survivor complain will skyrocket
I agree with your slight nerf. Since you do not see normal totems, seeing an aura out of the blue gets me confused every now and then. I would even say, remove the aura from Undying and give it to Thrill instead, bc Thrill is the hex dedicated to totem protection. This wouldn't hurt Undying too much, since the hex swap mechanic is the main reason to run it. And it would give thrill a nice buff.
Just an FYI both Unbreakable and Decisive Strike have changed multiple times. Unbreakable 2 times and Decisive 4 times.
If you remove the aura reading then off the top of my head Undying becomes the only perk in the game that’s worthless by itself.
Even Thrill has a secondary effect of more bloodpoints and wasting a little bit of time if survivors do destroy totems.
The real kicker is killers defending their strong combos yet crying about survivor combos every day.
Yes, because open handed is a very powerful perk alone
I said off the top of my head, I never said there wasn’t any others. No need to get defensive.
Even Open handed could technically do something since if any of the other 3 survivors have an aura reading perk it would help them but otherwise yes. So we have what now 2 perks that are potentially useless by themselves?
Theres a reason there isnt many. I dont think it’s something they want to do.
I don't think it will be nerfed not sure why you are worried. If they were I think they would test it on PTB which is coming around now.
There is a difference between 20 feet and 3 miles. They are both "distance," but one is clearly greater than the other, no?
It is the same with "disadvantage." Solo players will always be at a disadvantage, but there is a difference between what we were at pre-meta-shift and what we are currently at. Ruin/Undying hits solo players far harder than SWF teams. In fact, it hits solo's so hard they people like you are claiming that it is perfectly okay for solo players to be forced to change up their build and sacrifice an extremely valuable perk slot specifically to counter a new meta while SWF just take it in stride, especially since solo players cannot riff off of their teammates perks, for example you might get a team all running anti-totem perks and Inner Strength. Not the best way to survive a trial.
Ok, thats right. How about it would show you all dull totems with a white aura, so you would know where every totem is located. I just feel the current aura is too much and better fits to Thrill.
Actually I like that one, since it makes dull totems important.
Of course, it would still be useless on its own to some extent, maybe slap a 50% deviousness BP bonus just so it does something even if you have no synergy perks with it.
Only thing that needs to change about undying is the aura reveal. There is already another hex that does that. To add it to undying is to completely disregard the other one. Other than that, I don't mind receiving a ton of Light-bringer points for cleansing 5 lit totems. Not to mention, when we notice there are multiple lit totems, we move to cleanse them before messing with gens anyway. Then we get to listen to the killer complain that they still got gen-rushed, despite the totems taking several minutes to locate and cleanse. I've seriously had games that lasted 25+ minutes (thanks to undying/ruin) only for the killer to complain that they got gen-rushed anyway. I know the devs are talking about slowing gen progress for the first few minutes of a match, so all that's going to do is encourage survivors to avoid gens and focus on breaking all the totems for the first few minutes, then do the gens anyway. It guarantees points for totems, and guarantees that NOED can't happen.
I feel like Thrill is fine with notifications.
Think about it Thrill is the totem defence perk. It slows down the cleansing speed and gives you a notification saying “come here quick and defend the totem”.
The aura reading can be easier to miss than the noise notification if you’re not looking in that direction.
Undyings totem aura reading isn’t that crazy. Its not that much different to Thrill. Unless you mean the passive aura reading you get when a survivor runs past a totem in a jungle gym, maybe if you really wanted to nerf the perk you could change it to a killer instinct effect instead. Or just reduce the 6 seconds down to 4.
I think people are overreacting with Undying. Nobody has complained about Undying and any other totem yet. The problem is specifically with Ruin and its “always active” effect. Nerfing Undying wont change that unless you put limits on how often Undying can respawn a totem which isn’t really fair.
I can see both sides of the argument. Undying/Ruin sounds like a nasty combo solo......but then its nasty because survivors dont do totems. I have games where I cleanse 4 and still die to NOED because nobody else can be bothered to do a totem. If I play 2 man swf we both take out a dull totem early on, so undying could only ever respawn a totem once.
Solo survivors could do with more information on totems I feel. If not a counter than just a noise notification which lets them know one has been taken out. At the same time they do need to put more effort in, you can only hold their hands so much before they need to stop being lazy and just take out any dull totems they come across. Its only 14 seconds. If every survivor played like this then NOED would be effectively dead as a perk but they just refuse to do them.
I wonder if it would be crazy to buff Undying. So that you lose 5/4/3 tokens rather than all of them when a totem is cleansed. In return for reducing the aura and changing Ruin. On some of the outdoor maps considering theres only 5 totems and usually easy to find reducing them all can feel a little harsh since you’re taking 2 perks just for totems of which are there only 5 and only take 14 seconds to take out. Maybe with Devour not so much with lullaby or third seal.
Killer combo rely on luck and is in the game for 3 week
Survivor combo rely on survivor mistake and is in the game for 2 years
My personal position on any survivor vs killer stuff is always the same:
if they are allowed, so should we and vica-versa.
if the excuse is that the combo ds Ub is also strong it only worsens the game by adding more broken things. undying gives a lot of information and also the chance to break 4 ruins. It is necessary to limit the reading of aura to the hex totem maybe lower the time. Maybe limit the amount of regeneration of totems or if they break undying all revived totems are broken.
That would kill the perk.
I do not say all these changes together but at least one. now it is very strong. especially a killer with great mobility. I use this combo with the nurse and it's ridiculous. 3 seconds into the game I am already seeing the aura of one or two survivors. If you have the nearby totems you can zone a part of the map with 3 or 4 gen and it is an easy victory. Is the small pp build for killers .
In this day and age, having a powerful perk combination as a killer is illegal, so it must be nerfed.
Its weird. Survivors ran Unbreakable/DS/Soul guard for months with no issues. It was fine, it was balanced they said.
Now they get a combo of killer perks that allows them to use their OP combo more often and they don’t like it.
It's hard enough for killers to defend gens, they can't also defend totems as well. That's not something anyone can expect from a killer.
What you are describing here is not a balance issue in the slightest, it's a matchmaking and ranking issue, since you seem to get team mates that seem to be lower rank or should at least be lower rank.
How can Ruin/Undying combo be ignored and countered and DS/UB not? As long as Ruin is active, gens regress automatically, and that's prety damn strong. I get that you can cleanse all the hex totems, but then again Ruin is actiive the entire time until the Ruin totem is destroyed for good, at which point survivors have already spent time looking for totems and not doing gens.
Ds is only active for 60 seconds after being unhooked. During that time they can counter both getting picked up and being slugged, but still it's not much stronger then the Ruin/Undying combo.
I was thinking the same thing, why not make it so tier 1 the max that it can move is 1 time, then 2, then 3. This would also make it more viable in builds with another hex perk.
Alternatively, you could cap the number of moves by, let's say 2 and make broken totems respawn, which is still contributing to the "undyingness" of the perk more than aura reading
if one side has perk or op combos it is not solved by handing over perk and op combos to the other side. Nerf perk and op combos for both sides. and by case the problem is ds and undying. ds allows survivors to take aggressive actions without punishment. undying not only revives totem are 5 radars on the map with 6 second auras.
I myself don't like the idea of any indicator for totems, it feels like hand holding and survivor gets enough of that each match...I think like you said if you have over 2,000 posts ya know the perks. If a new player needs help then they need to learn the perks, totem spots and explore the map. If they do those things they will learn, no need to make it easier for a team to escape in five minute matches
I've gone against Undying+Ruin so many times and have been able to escape.
Either we rush gens or just simply find all totems, it's a perfectly fine combo.
Change one of your second chances for "Small Game"/" Detectives Hunch" or use a map. Problem solved.
Nerfing undying is not the way to create diversity, believe me. Buffing perks like dying light is better.
🤦♂️
I don’t know how many times this needs to be said.
Undying is fine. Undying does not need any changes.
Ruin is the problem survivors have. No other totems have an always active effect 24/7, only Ruin does.
When you cleanse Devour/Lullaby/Third seal the tokens reset which gives survivors downtime in which they can comeback.
Haunted grounds and retribution don’t have any effect until the totem is cleansed.
There’s no other totem like Ruin. Ruin will likely be the one that gets changed. Probably token based to some degree.
I dont want to hear about Huntress Lullaby. Sure that 6% always applies but nobody outside of rank 20s are gonna be missing constant skillchecks with 0 tokens of lullaby.
People need to stop picking on Undying.
Please add lightning bolts that have a 1% chance to strike and instakill any of the 5 players in the match.
Can you imagine the mald fiesta if ruin gets nerfed?
If Undying gets nerfed then all the other totem perks go back to being memes. At least Undying makes them somewhat viable.
Yep, Thrill is totem defence, and showing the aura of survivors near totems suits Thrill better than Undying, imo. For Undying it's just a random effect i misinterpreted quite some times (thought a group of survivors all had OoO, when they were just near a totem). I guess when Undying would also show dull totems in white, it wouldn't be as surprising when auras are shown all of a sudden. Apart from the randomness, I really feel Undying is strong enough that it does not need any additional auras. That's why I said it could be added to Thrill instead, where it would give you a way to detect whether survs just tapped the totem and then shied away, so you do not have to walk all the way to it.
A totem counter would be good, yeah, but I would add it to small game instead of giving it as base kit.
I think it's fine that stacks are not kept, that shouldn't be changed. If you really need your totem to stay acitve, you gotta take Thrill with you. That would also benefit from Undying.
I totally agree,only lazy survivors have something againts undying,if anything it makes the games more interesting like they're supposed to be.
I play both Killer and Survivor. Most of my Survivor games are Solo. I've been running into the Ruin+Undying combo and been doing just fine. It could be that I'm getting bang up Survivors, or perhaps I'm the odd man out, the "Red Shirt" going in with a 3-Person SWF. All I know is that people are doing MORE Bones, and I'm still getting out alive at about the same ratio as before. I don't think the combination is broken, and I don't think it needs a Nerf. More Survivors simply need to adapt to the new META. A pure Gen-Rush strategy simply does not work if the Killer has effective slow down Perks in place.
And with old MoM the solution was hit again, Problem solved
The problem isnt that totems cant be found, its that finding totems is punished by a perk that can only be countered by finding totems. I get you dont like DS/UB, idc, i dont run either. My default is UE, spin chill, Iron will, and either balanced landing or sprint burst. Stop trying to deflect on the point that the perks counter is countered by the perk by trying to blame survivor combos you dont like. Undying is bad game design straight up, it is countered by doing dull totems but it counters survivors that do dull totems. I ran detectives hunch once and couldnt break a single totem vs hillbilly cuz he'd zoom over before I could. There is no counter to it because, AGAIN, it counters its counter.
But your next argument is "if every survivor does totems at the same time..." that require coordination on a swf level which im guessing you also despise. When playing solo q the perk is uncounterable vs a half-decent killer. Its power needs to be shifted, not removed, but shifted. Make it so only auras around hex totems are revealed or make it so auras are only revealed while survivors are working on totems but it lasts longer after they let go.
I've said this many times but that's a Hillbilly issue. Go against a standard killer and you can easily cleanse totems. There is so much in the game that became overpowered because of Billy.
Hardly. If Survivors do the Totems, they get done. I do them as a Survivor and I also get through Gens just fine even when Ruin is up. Is it harder than it was? Sure. But it was too easy before.
Please bro. Don't compare a free second DH to removable totems.
(terror radius) (killer Position) (awareness)