zonkednb
zonkednb
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@100PercentBPMain said:
Chucky has anti synergy with undetectable so that means if you want to be sneaky you should be looking at terror radius reductions. he has a couple addons for that. it's been many months since I dabbled in it(before the monitor nerfs) but chuckys terror radius could go as low as like 8 or 12, always mix him up with Dracula
i hadn't thought about messing with his TR. This might get me what I want, thanks. I'm not looking for an oppressive build or anything, I just wanna have survivors deal with sudden goblin mode out of nowhere when I'm the Chuckster. Knowing I won the psychological war, even if I only get a 1k, is a personal win.
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I'd say this is a different game entirely at this point. It could be fun, but this kind of idea is so far away from the standard DBD gameplay loop that it feels sort of like when people try to bend 5th edition D&D to fit campaign ideas it was not designed for, instead of using a more relevant system.
I'd play this, but probably not in DBD. It'd make for an entertaining weekend as a standalone game, though. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066285#Comment_4066285
Think about this:
A Chucky can sit in a bush and the survivors would never know he's there.
A survivor can be working on a gen and have the Chucky immediately wrap around and grab them off the gen.
There is a reason why Chucky has auditory sounds, I mean he's like 1-2 feet tall and can see in third person, lmfao.
I suppose bushes should be considered. I was more thinking walls/rocks, which would obscure other stealth killers just as much, which was the (admittedly poorly explained) thinking behind the Pig comparison. There are some gens where this can legitimately work, but it'd only work once per game against clever survivors.
Adding bushes to the mix does complicate stuff, as some maps would basically turn into a minefield of potential Chucky ambushes.
Now, not going to lie, a game like that would be hilarious, but I could see the balance problems, and I think the joke would wear thin from a survivor perspective.
I'd argue it's not overpowered strictly from a win-condition perspective. Sitting still in a bush waiting for an opportunity to grab or get a free hit would be significantly less efficient than just playing a regular game. Survivors would still be more vigilant once they know the game and any time you are waiting, they'll be off doing a different gen getting oodles of free progress.
That being said, I could also sympathise that it wouldn't be very fun to come across frequently, because even though you'd be more likely to win, when you do get grabbed/hit it'd feel quite cheap. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066283#Comment_4066283
I mean, even Wraith has snarling sounds when he's in cloak form so I don't see the point? Same thing for Ghostface, same thing for Myers (sorta due to how tall and noticeable he is so I'll toss him in).
The only one I think doesn't apply is Skull Merchant, but I mean she's been nerfed and I've always thought Skull Merchant did not need to be a haste+stealth killer.
Each stealth killer has an indicator to know they're around you, Chucky isn't any different.
Yep, and I would agree they are necessary for fair play too. I think Chucky getting a unique sound when stealthed shows design intent by BHVR which I find interesting. Other stealth killers tend to keep their sounds regardless of undetectable, Chucky actively gains new sounds.
I wanna clarify this isn't a true balance discussion nor me lamenting Chucky as weak. I don't think he's particularly great but I do fine with him. I'm asking more, if Insidious specifically didn't trigger giggle mode, would it be oppressive? I don't think so, personally.
The only thing I'm lamenting is the loss of prospective meme plays.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066280#Comment_4066280
It would have to be tested and sadly I cannot be in that level of testing due to being on console. I'm just saying if anything it'll put Chucky in situations where he gets easy hits, grabs off gens, etc.
You could argue that a survivor should constantly move their camera around to prevent this, but at the same time does Chucky really need it?
This is the true question.
I don't think he needs it for balance or anything like that. It's purely a discussion for the hypothetical. Other killers have sounds too when undetectable but Chucky's is notable in that he has a separate sound specifically to prevent stealth Chucky.
Say we put Insidious Chucky next to a crouching Pig. If they're both camping for a gen grab, Chucky has visuals and is smaller, but Pig is silent and can aura read with the iri. I feel it nets the same effect, but isn't a dominant or even common strategy because of the opportunity cost of essentially going AFK.
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@CautionaryMary said:
I think it's mainly due to Chucky having audio cues, that's not something that can be muffled over. Similar to the other killer sounds in the game.
If anything, I'd argue Chucky with Insidious is kinda like playing Plague with Insidious.
It would make me chuckle at least, but I think the audio cues are given so that survivors can react - remember Chucky is third person and is very small. I can imagine a Chucky that makes zero auditory noise as quite infuriating to deal with and putting that into his kit would be an odd choice.
I'm honestly okay with his audio cues being present for other sources of undetectable. And realistically wouldn't expect a hard coded exception for one relatively niche perk.
Just hypothetically, Insidious in isolation, would that be too much?
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As much as I'd love it thematically, there are killers whose maps are actively not great for them. I couldn't see this being a popular change.
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I agree it'll probably get nerfed.
Although my personal bias would prefer it not to be. It basically equalises the information low-to-intermediate players have with high-level players. It also narrows solo Q and SWF a little as SWFs can call burned resources and deadzones.
A token system would be a reasonable compromise. Maybe you get a token for every good skill check, to a maximum of 3, and consume a token when you vault/drop. Maybe start with one token, too, to prevent those less experienced players getting slaughtered in the first chase. I make tokens so easy to replenish in this idea because the problem with Windows, if I'm understanding you correctly, is in its persistence. You're not going to be farming skill checks in chase, so after a maximum of 3 used resources, you're playing without it.
This would hopefully stop brainless chaining like you mention, while not killing the perk off for the people it is likely designed for, those being casual/intermediate players that are still learning or don't want to watch 9 hours of tile breakdowns all at once. -
@Smoe said:
I hope it doesn't happen, since the creator is a groomer.
I did not know about this. :(
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065659#Comment_4065659
I have 800 hours in game, 60% of that as killer with a 74% kill rate and 40% time as survivor with a 24% escape rate.
Please don't make assumptions
I said it reads like that assumption would be fair, which it does. You type like someone that does not play killer or has played very limited amounts of killer, crushed some fresh installs and concluded that it's easy. Against good survivors, killer is difficult. that's inarguable.
It's very easy to boil down the diversity of opinion and evidence of a set group of people by claiming they're all parroting a streamer that they might not have even seen. Please don't tell me not to assume things, when you assume so much yourself. It reads again like you don't understand the impact the PTB-that-shall-not-be-named would have had on the killer experience, and can only engage with the impact on survivors.
I'm seeing a disconnect with what you expect the game to be, versus what it's turned into. Your fixation on aura reading and the inability to hide, as well as citing the game as being referred to as "hide and seek" indicates this is the gameplay loop you look for. You stealth as survivor primarily.
Unfortunately, I'd agree with you that stealth is not the core gameplay loop. It can work situationally but, to be honest, as a primary method of survival it's not only ineffective longer term, but also can make things harder on your team by forcing the killer to focus on fewer people. Maybe they could do with updating how the game is advertised/described.
To be honest, having the game remain stealth focused was never going to work. Killer variety would bottom out if they had to design them all with the basic idea that finding the survivors is the bulk of play time. You're welcome to play stealthily if that's what you enjoy, but it is not going to work in most situations. -
There's a whole lot to unpack here. Reads like you are fully bought into the adverserial mindset so many people have between to two roles.
Pandering go a few random streamers like they actually matter. They don't. They are just other randoms who play the game. All killers might I add which is a role that requires literally 0 skill to play.
You nerfed distortion to death making it a dead perk because killers cried it's unfair to hide, in a game you still label as hide and seek on your own website.
A lot of what you are saying tells me you do not play killer enough to empathise where the complaints from the 'killer side' (should just be people who play killer as I'm 60/40 with more hours survivor) originate. Hiding is viable as a temporary strategy, as much as you seem to prefer it as your playstyle, it's fundamentally boring for everyone else involved. A killer that invests all in on Aura is costing themselves elsewhere, however. You're talking like having 4 different triggers for aura reading is basekit for everyone.
And on encouraging chases, what's the point, if you're good at it, doesn't matter, killers then get a speed boost to compensate for their failures.
Bloodlust is there to deal with infinites. You lose it if you do pretty much anything other than hold W. Yes, it makes the chase harder to maintain the longer it goes on, but a survivor doesn't only outplay the killer if they last infinitely long in chase. They outplay the killer every time they extend how long the chase goes on for.
4k is easy.
If you're against inexperienced survivors, yes.
Every game the same, aura reveal, tunnel , slug repeat.
It sounds more to me like you've had a bad run of games and felt strongly enough to make this post. At this stage, people saying tunneling and slugging are part of every game is becoming background noise. You get accused of these things for legitimate, non-BM plays all the time.
If I've no other info, I'm going to rehook the same survivor. I'm not going to ignore them just because it's mean to go for them twice. Further, if they use post-hook endurance or DS aggressively, then I'll happily tunnel. They wanted me to go for them, right?
Slugging is also a viable and sometimes necessary strategy. Survivors over commit to saves and hand you a snowball. Again, am I supposed to just let them get their flash/pallet save? It feels like you want killers to play like a parent trying to keep their kids entertained, not a player on equal footing that wants to win.Oh yea, anti tunnel and anti slug was a plan wasn't it, until one YouTuber cried and so you scrapped it.
The changes were legitimately bad. They've gone back to the drawing board to see what they can do.
dog vials
Arf arf woof :)
Agreed they're kinda not good though, but I have seen them put to decent effect if you time them well and don't try to use them like a flashbang. But yeah, mostly not worth the hassle.Play your own game, put some effort in and make it fun again, stop pandering to killers they aren't the only people who play.
Funny, people who are 100% killer players who buy into f claim the game panders to survivors. They're no less wrong than you are.
Getting a 4k is as easy as spelling your own name.
Ah shoot. No wonder I never get a 4k.
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Killer perspective, I'd have fun playing this.
Survivor perspective, depending on where that haste goes, it sounds really unpleasant if I'm honest. Not necessarily OP, unless the haste is too high, but just being peppered endlessly and never gaining enough distance to not have to be in constant cover. -
@mrpieseller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065439#Comment_4065439
Yeah I was expecting people to notice that. Usually when a survivor comes out they'll skyrocket and then stabilize later on. I felt like I would still keep track though, since I technically did still play against them
It'd be interesting to further explore your data. What is the ratio of female to male survivors? What is the ratio of licensed to original? Free to unlockable?
Do survivors that start with more popular perks see higher pickrates? Or do people just throw BP into them, unlock what they want, and stick to their faes?
Does having more cosmetic options increase pickrate significantly?
Making me want to start tracking my games now! -
@TheBuffyGeek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063964#Comment_4063964
My dream chapter.
I know Buffy has supernatural powers and abilities, but they could either have The Entity strip her of her powers or maybe have her taken into The Fog during the S3 episode “Helpless” as that could be a nice way to tie in the shows lore with DBDs. There’s so many cosmetics that could be made and that’s not even including the Legendary ones.
Although it would probably be a paragraph chapter, I would love if we also got The Gentlemen as the killer(s) as I feel like there’s so many fun things you could do with their power.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3HB7NKAX68B1/img-0749.gif
Stripping survivors of powers they would have had in their own universes is already established, so Buffy could work just fine. The fact that the Buffy revival was cancelled is pretty devastating both because I grew up with that show, and because it would have been the perfect storm to make the IP very appealing as a new chapter.
The Gentlemen would be my pick too! The best example of horror in Buffy and super iconic. I imagine they'd have a lot of powers/perks that obscure survivor information, given how they work in the show, although maybe that'd make them noobstompers that get bodied by SWFs/high-hour players. -
@mrpieseller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065435#Comment_4065435
EXACTLY what the first comment on my reddit post acknowledged too 😂
Ha! Well, the stereotype is there for a reason! No disrespect to Sable players, of course, she's a fine survivor.
I'm honestly surprised by some of these figures, though. I suppose there is a degree of recency bias in there, hence the overrepresentation of Eleven. I expected more Davids than what you got, and I'm not 100% sure why Feng Min is so represented. I like her, she was my go-to until I discovered the good word of Mikaela and her hat, but she's kinda loud and seems pretty middle of the road for aesthetic/cosmetics. -
The first thing I did was check where Sable was at.
Yup. That tracks. -
@KatsuhxP said:
I think it's probably survivor with a huge "but". So:
If you have a killer that absolutely destroys you as a survivor you don't really have the chance to come back. Espeacially when he decides to slug 3 of you and down you again over and over again. But here's the "but" you ether make gens and force the killer to down you in which you're dead in 4 minutes, or you just let yourself bleed out after being slugged directly.
As killer you don't get that easy chance of giving up. If you can't catch the survivors you will be stuck for potentially a hour, you simply don't have the ability to bleed out or something.
(The things I say base on the goal to not get a matchmaking penality. Keep in mind that I don't really use the abandon feature so it could be that forgot something on any side).
I agree that a bad survivor match sucks, not that it sucks worse but getting rolled and struggling desperately against a losing situation isn't the most fun or engaging thing. Can feel like you're trying to beat back the ocean with a tennis racket.
The killer being the more 'active' role (in terms of changing the gamestate immediately and directly) does allow for more avenues to come back, yes, so I think it comes down to what you find more difficult. A feeling of hopelessness that is at least over relatively quickly (getting stomped as survivor), or a feeling of humiliation that at least has a chance of a comeback (getting stomped as killer). I find the latter a tougher pill to swallow simply because it tends to last longer. It's close though, because at least as killer if you're outmatched there's time to learn, whereas being outmatched as survivor can be tough learn from if it's just a slaughter. -
Lordi or GWAR? Their whole sthick is being monsters. Lordi even leant into slasher tropes of cabins and hapless high-school seniors for their music videos.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065173#Comment_4065173
I think what you said is actually quite smart, and it might indeed even have a varying effect on different m1 killers, which is why I'm always glad why forumers discuss thing more and more.
I think it would genuinly be great if they tested something like this, and if proven that there are considerable effects in balance, they could even make the 130% a varying number per killer. So killers base stats would more like this:
- 4.6ms movement speed
- 32m terror radius
- 6ms patrolling speed
And have these base stats simply be different for every killer. It would also make buffing m1 killers a lot more convenient, as micro adjustments to these numbers are overall easy to adjust, which is why I often wish beHaviour did more numberwise micro adjustments.Indeed! Thank you.
I think the main thing that we need to make sure we're doing, though, is remembering that many less mobile killers can be quite strong in chase/zoning/locking down areas. So any boost to map pressure they could achieve through a patrol mechanic must not give them the ability to switch pressure points as quickly as mobility/telport killers do, as that would somewhat sap the point of those abilities. 130% is quite a high baseline given the increments the game tends to work with.
But, I won't know the right figures, and it'd take time to create figures that work. There would also need to be a very strict system beyond even the forward-only/turn-with-camera restriction. Every single combination of button presses and mouse movements has some kind of tech associated with it in this game, and many techs are abusing mechanics in unintended ways. Don't think for one second that the starving Trapper mains won't immediately form a discord channel exclusively for figuring out how to exploit this patrol idea in an offensive way.
There is one mild concern that I have, however, and that is a matter of immersion. If you get somewhat used to patroling at high speeds, is it possible that chases for some killers will feel slow? Like we're wading through liquid tar? If I'm zooming about as trapper getting set up, catch someone and start a chase, is that chase going to be exilerating if I feel like I'm slower than I was just mucking about the map?
There's strengths and flaws. I'm not 100% let's get this in the game, but I'm open to discussion and experimentation. I don't particularly enjoy playing the high-tiers. I find success with the low -tiers. But I've also had games where my chases have been quick and efficient, but I've just not been able to keep the gens from going off because the map is too large. Possible macro skill issue, sure, but it's a common enough complaint that maybe it's worth more of a review than simply pointing at some kill rates and calling it a day. -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065109#Comment_4065109
In regards to breaking things, I agree. I initially thought about it myself too. Right now you could even argue that "shift tech-ing" at shack is breaking it too but in survivor's favour, but in this case of course we'd be looking at it breaking in favour of the killer.
That's why i made it so that you have to press forward only (or on controller holding forwards with a 15 degree variation only) for the effect to trigger. This way they can't run backwards and use the ability to not look at the survivor to sneak up to a survivor at a lot of speed. And in cases where there's a lot of cover, I made it so that scratchmarks block the effect too so that survivors can slow it down. I think it'd even be possible to boost the heartbeat during this ability to compensate and give a bigger heads up. All of these smaller details could of course be looked at.
Also, I agree that on certain killers it wouldn't be necessary, like on blight or on nurse. It could simple be a mechanic that's presented just like terror radius and movement speed, where some killers can also have the tag "Patrolling" added to the list, showing they have access to this feature. So I definitely agree with that.
I think there are many small ways in which to fine tune the patrolling mechanic, as long as it's satisfies it's general design philosophy of being a non-chase transportation mechanism for at least killers that lack basic ways for transportation inside their kitOf course, the things I mention aren't to rain on your parade. I think there's potential in the base idea. It would be along the lines of a balance change I'm seeing rumbled about more and more - per killer balancing.
I think the main thing is knowing just how much of an impact particular numbers could have, which killers need it more/less. It sounds to me like if they brought in this mechanic, having an attribute like you described, such as "Patrol Speed" would be a way to allow it to shine for the killers that need it.
I'd still want a very lengthy PTB for something that shakes things up so much. Do not underestimate the ability of thousands of players to turn the best ideas and intentions into a rather brutal stick to beat each other with. -
Play games to make yourself happy.
Please continue doing so, even if that means taking time off or slowing down. :) -
I wanna leave, but Trapper has Honing Stone.
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It's a fine suggestion. I'd like to see it tested to see the effects and how players use it. I've noticed players tend to find ways to break things pretty badly, so this would need a lot of games from all levels of play to determine whether it'd be healthy or not.
The one concern I have is how this may impact killers whose traversal power is also an effective chase power (Nurse/Blight what a suprise!). It'd result in them being able to apply pressure without having to arrive already dealing with fatigue or a reduction in tokens and could consolodate their power further (although likely not by much).
Killers with no mobility options should be whitelisted as able to get 'Patrol Mode,' whereas all others should not. Maybe a global sound cue for when this mode is entered so that survivors know to expect Usain Trapper to burst from the corn at 30mph. -
Yeah, sick and tired of it to be honest.
Anyway, heard about that new chapter? -
I'll see if I can catch it happening tonight. I have definitely started getting pelted with Trickster knives far earlier than expected on Delusion. Haven't had it happen as Killer though,
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064955#Comment_4064955
Lmfao, I am not stressed out - I don't know how you read that whole thing and signaled that I am the one under duress - but again, this is exactly what I typed out.
I literally thanked you, your reaction was defensive.
I don't know man, I don't know how you can read calm, composed, and be reactive but yes - thanks for the exchange regardless - best of luck to you.
Edit: this is what I'm talking about with anxiety inducing language. I do not operate like that because of my ability to differentiate between games. Exactly why earlier I mentioned I do not take the game from last time - think my game where I said my whole team went down to Trickster due to main event (that people struggle with in the Trickster thread). Do I take that frustration out on the next Trickster I see? Nope, I notice what works, apply it, and adapt.
I am never under stress in this game, at all - do not project that onto me, please and thank you.
Edit 2: also, you do not need to explain yourself to me. Just because I say I view the game different from where I play does not mean I look down at others for not knowing counterplay with another killer. I literally go out of my way to write long, composed messages helping both sides (Anxious, Autistic killer main seeking advice that no killer main for some reason could not provide) to Krasue, Kaneki, and The First counterplay. I do not want you to feel as if you need to double down and tell me that you are improving, I literally said that you were improving in my last text.
Point being, play how you want. Learning is not linear, it's up and down. You will have good games, you will have bad games, you will be steamrolled in some games, and completely dominate others - the only person you need to worry about impressing and needing hype/validation from is yourself - not me, a random player who can see the game differently.
I think there's a massive disconnect between what's being written and what's being interpreted dude. Text is famously bad at conveying tone.
I'm not under duress. I'm not sure what you mean by anxiety-inducing language. I've already gone into length about what I meant by crutch.
I mention offense because you mentioned taking offense earlier in the thread, before realising none was intended. I was aligning with that.
Hoping you are not too stressed out has nothing to do with how you feel in-game. I was actually trying to be nice because of your previous statement that the disconnect you feel from the forums makes you feel the need to take a break from them. I presumed that was due to negative feelings and was wishing you well with that. No malintent, no accusation. My only mistake was presuming the breaks you take from the forum are a result of stress with said disconnect.
I'm not seeking validation. I'm making lighthearted jokes about my own newness and desire to grow. I'm not even being reactive, as I myself am perfectly fine and calm. Speaking on my own improvement is me being optimistic, not doubling down or presuming you doubt me. I honestly don't know from where you're getting my intent :/. Don't project unkind motivations onto me, the same way you're hoping I would not to you.
I'm just here chatting about a game I like. I'm quite saddened that doing so has me viewed this way.
But yes, I think this conversation ran its course. Later! -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064867#Comment_4064867
Yes, I think after the previous comment and even the Trickster thread I noticed I must be operating on high MMR logic and I forget that high MMR people more than likely are not present here.
Not trying to be rude, that's why I took offense earlier to your previous comment but now I can see the skill gap present between the two of us and the other stuff I often feel disconnected from in the forums. - now it all makes sense to me.
I think because I've met 1k hour players in my own MMR bracket, but I should have seen the more anxiety inducing language (worrying about crutches, validation, as a major indicator of the gap between the wavelength). You are correct that you as a player with less hours than me (even though I do see people with your hours in high MMR - not saying you are bad, I am just giving my reasoning on why I believed you and I were similar earlier)
I won't argue against the mentality that people enter at a point of time where meta and existing conditions didn't exist, I was that back when I first played. However, my level of learning was immediate - I did not play the game without any knowledge. I do this with every game I play, I look into the strategies to do better but I know now that people did not naturally do that. They would spawn in, act like the Claudette, be memed on, and not even know why they're being memed on.
I did not enter the game as the crouching Claudette, I watched Dead By Daylight content religiously every day and got better through watching content. However, again I now know that is not the norm for normal people from now realizing I am seeing low MMR survivor and killer mains upset at each other and blaming the other role. This was very eye-opening for me to recognize.
Moreover, yes - the level of what you are doing is improvement, it's what I did years ago and started having when I started clipping my own chases years ago. I only recently started uploading the content because I got tired of people complaining (mostly on here) about how horrible soloq is. Now I truly understand why I can load in my soloq games and enjoy my games, I just play and operate on a whole different level than the normal players on here. I just realized that I don't even think the survivors here know what micro and macro play even is, lol.
Thank you for allowing me to understand why the gap between not only myself to others are on here (it's why I take breaks, I can only take so much tit-for-tat on these forums) and also understanding why I see so much vitriol from both sides - it's genuinely one side thinking the other is harder, easier, feeling based - and I now know why I view the game much differently than people here.
But yes, I do different builds not because of comfort - not because I want to act like I'm superior to others, or whatever someone might think when I say I don't need WOO. I genuinely get bored if I play the same build over and over, so I like that I create different builds per survivor - hence why I advocate for synergy, but now I truly know that I operate much differently than most people here, lol.
Honest to goodness there was literally no offense intended, my dude. I was crediting you for being creative because most discourse I've seen as a newer member of the community has revolved around very specific perks. It was great for me to learn what the consensus was, but it also left the hundreds of other perks a bit abstract and confusing.
I think we are similar in mindset, less so skill level. In that, we're not particularly meta-bound and critical without cause. Instead, we approach from the angle of what we enjoy most about the game. I see perks like tools as well, and don't worry too much about things like second chance perks. I can empathise why they're annoying, sure, but if they're being used passively, you're playing against a survivor with one less tool in the belt, and if they're being used aggressively, like baiting chase for DS, it honestly only delays the inevitable in my experience. Not that they are bad perks at all! More that there is opportunity cost there and I think people neglect that in favour of how annoying they can be from a killer's perspective (this is where I think the friend you mentioned earlier in the thread is at).
I didn't come in completely blind either. My partner has played DBD for years so she was able to guide me a little, and I did start consuming some streamers and picking up little things here and there. Following on from that came reading up on things, watching actual guides instead of weekly highlights, and of course, playing the game on my own without someone helping me out. I don't believe myself a total scrub! I'm by no means good by established player, but I can hold my own in my MMR and have been advancing on both sides to seeing more consistent high level techs being used correctly. That tells me I'm moving in the right direction :)
I don't believe there's any shame in running Windows, Bond, Deja Vu or anything like that. From a practical standpoint, I fear only stunting myself. Nor do I think anyone is claiming superiority for not running them (unless they outright state they are superior) because so many things in this game will become second nature at high levels that many players won't need them. Hell, even the kind of gamesense I've seen to track every burned resource on the map at once, making WoO nigh an empty slot for some. That to me is amazing and I wish one day to be at that level. I just want to be conscious of how actively I'm taking in the info Windows is providing me, vs passively pathing towards the next "make distance" map element and hoping it works out.
Maybe when you take your next break, you'll come back after my training montage and I'll be theorycrafting builds and posting my own 5 gen loops and 3 min 4ks. In the meantime, I hope you are feeling good and not too stressed out.
GL to ya! -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064740#Comment_4064740
Oh yeah, I remember a Steam user being nodding Wesker and I genuinely enjoyed him. I have my grievances with Wesker - I can feel his gameplay is a bit repetitive for me (I also didn't like the whole I drop pallet - Wesker hits me and I'm on the other side of the pallet) - incredibly frustrating. Anywho, I would have a blast with him. Same for the Wesker who would try to do their little Wesker techs and let the survivors go. However, I have seen similar killers that try to be like that and completely derail a whole game. I can remember a Ghostface running Rancor (I was obsession) and I believe he had a full end game build - I can't remember everything, but just know I knew he was not friendly - my random soloq believed he was friendly. Last gen pops, NOED is active, people go down like flies, and I'm the only one that escaped so my mentality typically is I play serious, just like I believe my opponent is also being serious. ^ simply for situations like that.
Yes, my certain win condition is as I said to the previous poster. If I die and my death contributed to the last gen popping, the exit gate being opened, my team being able to reset, etc. - I take that as a personal win. There is obviously a difference between a personal win and a direct win condition, but you know I get incredibly hyped when I can die and my team has secured a 3 man out due to my death.
I think once the community realizes to stop viewing stuff as crutches and focus on the training wheel aspect of Windows is when people will stop adhering themselves to what the other side wants them to be.
Similar when I see killer mains talk about the killer rulebook - you play how you want to play, I play how I want to play, etc and so on. Perks to me are not crutches, they are tools to be utilized. It's honestly why I do not view second chance perks the same way other survivor mains and killer mains view them.
Just because you don't use them doesn't mean you should view them as crutches and as I've said before, a killer is not entitled to a free tunnel. (second chance perks void that) nor does a killer get entitled to tell others that they're being handicapped and playing autopilot with Windows when these same killer mains cannot operate without aura reading. It's just a pot calling the kettle black, let people play what they want without judgment as it's not entirely detrimental to the team as a whole.
You're not here to impress me or others, in my opinion you shouldn't care how others view you using tools to get better and actively suppressing a training wheel (WOO) because others look down on it, view it as a crutch, view someone as a noob - no one asked for their opinions and you do not play for the person who enjoys said perks. But again, I just wish people would just look at the system, make their own conclusion, and stop worrying about how their builds or playstyle is viewed by others - it oftentimes feels like the DBD community is just a hivemind of needing to know something works, this build works, this style works - no, find your own style and own it.
Edit: also, I guess this is why I don't really come on here to talk about builds because it feels like I'm talking a foreign language to people who are still stuck in the meta-slave mindset.
So, when you say something like "Props to you for being surprising, I suppose." seems a bit unwarranted in a way. If you think about it logically - if I don't get a pallet stun, I use Lithe. If I get a pallet stun, I get Smash Hit (Smash Hit allows me to get exhaustion back quicker). But again, I do not expect nuance or macro thinking when it comes to the forums, quite simply. I don't expect people to do deep dives into perks, what works, etc - it's why I do not do it because to be honest, everything as subjective. People think they need DH, Windows, Adrenaline, Resilience, Finesse to be a good survivor yet I see people with those same builds struggle. Same thing for killer, yet the community still adopts this ancient idea that if my friends, the community, the content creators say x perk is bad, it is indeed bad. Truly mindboggling.
People always need validation for their builds, people need permission to play a certain way, people need to feel as it's they're handheld like children to validate their worldview, which I honestly believe needs to be disregarded. People in this community need to start thinking on their own and stop parroting things they hear - it's honestly embarrassing for a community based on numbers, results, and everything else and that be given to the killer role and not the survivor role. - even when those same killer roles dismiss, disregard, and invalidate their "peers".
I think it's okay to give credit for breaking the norm. Regardless of if, in an ideal world, the norm shouldn't exist in the first place. Because yes, in said ideal world, people would make individual choices for their builds/playstyle based on what they enjoy or feel most comfortable with. For some, external validation is required for that, due to lacking confidence, or needing a level of outside information to click the pieces together in how a build would work. For others, if it's fun, they do it. You fall into the latter, by what you're saying.
When I say crutch, referring exclusively to myself, it comes less from a place of self-depreciation or disrepect to someone running Windows per se, and more due to me not having every map and tile down pat just yet. Bad-habit-builder is more of a mouthful than crutch, and sometimes I worry just how well I'd play without it. As I said before, sometimes I'm okay and run the map as I should be doing for best effect, other times I'm less put together and literally run to the next yellow. When I'm doing that specifically, I know I'm engaging in behaviour that isn't really helping me improve. And I, as a player, would like to.
My fun is seeing those incremental improvements. Comparing my first few chases to today, it's stark, but I still remember the first time I successfully transfered from one tile to another without eating a health state and kept the loop going for a little while longer. It was hardly a clip-worthy multi-gen loop, but it was the first time I successfully made a 'play,' no matter how modest it was.
Modern era players, such as myself, that didn't get any prolonged time growing with the game, have stepped into an established meta with players that know all the maps and mechanics intuitively. Experimentation is heavily punished and the game is so frontloaded with information and knowledge checks that it does not surprise me that people are scared to deviate. It's sort of like art, in a way. It's not about breaking rules; it's about knowing the rules so you know how to break them. Basically, a good knowledge of perkless fundamentals is key, and that knowledge base takes at least hundreds of hours to grow for all but the fastest learners.
Players that are snobby about builds or build ideas without consideration of what the intended effect is are dumb though. Fun>Meta every day of the week. -
I'm like 40/60 this is bait.
It's two tunnel perks and a slug perk. These are things that are super divisive. I think even people that don't mind a tunnel or slug would not be for bringing perks that outright encourage that. Playing 'dirty' that way is effective enough on its own. -
@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064771#Comment_4064771
The best approach for a BioShock chapter would be giving it the Silent Hill treatment imo. The most popular aspect selected across the franchise for each part of the chapter.
- Burial at Sea Elizabeth as the Survivor
- Big Daddy as a Killer from BioShock 1 and or Burial at Sea who attacks Elizabeth in it.
- Some location taken from BioShock 2 for a map.
Plus OP had the right idea for a sequel chapter, by making both the good and evil version of Eleanor into a Survivor and Killer respectively, since it not only gives us more BioShock content, but it also doesn't relegate the potential of a Big Sister killer to just being a skin for Spirit or Skull Merchant, and it will potentially give us a full BioShock theme'd 2v8 as well.
Then I think we're on the same page. Although I'd prefer OG Elizabeth as the survivor, even if that Elizabeth doesn't interact with an original Big Daddy, purely because I'm not a fan of Burial at Sea at all. I've no objective reasoning for this, it's purely taste and I'm happy to admit that.
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@Smoe said:
I think regular enemies do work as killers. A lot of people are happy with the idea of a Big Daddy killer, and they're just enemies for the most part.
The thing is, all of the Killers we have in DBD aren't grunt enemies. They're all central characters to their respective source materials, each to various degrees.
Even a Big Daddy plays a more prominent role throughout the franchise compared to the rest of the cast of enemies encountered, hell you even play as one in the 2nd game. It's only surpassed by central characters important to the stories of the games.
Sure. I think it really depends entirely on whether or not they represent the franchise. Full disclosure, were it up to me I'd go with the OG Big Daddy from the first Bioshock. Not unique or a named character, but about as representative of the franchise as it gets. Maybe a legendary skin that turns you into Subject Delta. I'd pick this over real big bads like Fontaine, for example.
Still at a loss as for what an Infinite chapter could do, though. None of the villains really work as killers in that game imo. -
@random1543 said:
Yes we should be able to see everyones ping.
There is the red tag at the moment in lobby but swear wont show then you'll load in and oh no killer has bad ping.People can spoof ping or increase latency manually once in game for malicious reasons.
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@Shinkiro said:
Why just killer? Show everyones
I agree with you, but probably because Killer ping is more noticeable to more people. But yeah, show everyone's if we're showing any at all.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064450#Comment_4064450
Yes, I try not to cuss as much as I used to in videos I've done a year ago, lol. I don't even cuss on here, but I'm a sailor when it comes to the gameplay at times.
See, I would have this mentality - the whole take it easy, but I remember one time playing SWF. The team I was with was saying this Pinhead isn't that good, he sucks with his chains, etc. So, my team kinda laxxed on him and I knew deep down, just like with my Wraith example that you can have a rough start and then completely start bulldozing things when the survivor role messes up. You know what happened? Complete 4k.
So, when I play survivor I don't "take it easy" on the opponent. At any time, in my brain - the killer could simply just struggled for whatever reason at first and then completely find their tempo and it's a gg moment. I could do that as Skull Merchant or the other games I had as killer because at that point, I already won. 2 people DCed, I don't want to stigmatize Skull Merchant further, so I let them go. (probably the friendliest Skull Merchant they met). - same for when I have achieved 3 kills, in my brain I've already won. I do not care that you get hatch, I do not care to sit here and slug you, I do not care for all of that. Even Momo, who I have played against (comp player) doesn't do this or at least when I faced him and saw him play, he doesn't sit there and slug you for the 4k. He will hook the third, go find hatch, you find hatch - doesn't matter Momo already won, you're a tally in his winstreak.
Killer has more initiative to do that as they are the ones who are supposed to be the power role, the one exerting pressure on the map and in the trial. Survivors, to me - does not have the luxury to do that unless you consider "bully" squads and I tell the same killer main friend that to me, bully squads are handing you a win on a silver platter. They aren't doing gens (unless it's some weird hybrid bully squad efficient gen SWAT unit) - once you recognize the pattern that they're doing, they are easily dealt with. They will more than likely not get the gens done, at least not efficiently - take advantage of that knowledge.
This is exactly why if I use builds that are more conditional than Sprint Burst - yes, I believe Sprint Burst is the easiest condition wise, but people misuse it and walk everywhere (I call that a walking simulator gamer) - but when I use Lithe, Overcome, Balanced Landing, Smash Hit - I do not use them as one off exhaustion perks... Again, this is where I say I like to outsmart my killer peer. They see Lithe, they're like "Okay, she has Lithe" - they get in chase with me again, I pallet stun them (I get Smash Hit value). I like to keep killers on their toes when it comes to my builds, that's why I prefer to run off-meta perks because I like to challenge myself and put the killer in the situation to think, just like I am doing during our chase.
I do not use Windows - I am not the survivor main that will say relying on it is autopilot, you don't know how to loop, you don't know how to play, you just run to yellow that killer mains will say. For the most part, if someone tells me they need advice for looping - I point them to WOO. People also use WOO for soloq, but at my hours and experience I know where the pallets are, I know how to chain tiles together, and I do not need a perk to tell me where to go - I use my eyes, I can see the pallets in the trial, not that difficult for me so I get perk choice freedom because I do not need Windows.
I agree that, as survivor, there isn't a need to take it easy on anyone. Like you mention, the killer dictates the pace of the game, so as survivor you don't get to decide when to sweat and when not to. I will engage if some silliness with the killer if they elect for it though. A quick nod exchange over a pallet etc. As for bully squads, to be honest they just lose games in my experience.
Honestly, it's down to the individual in this game to find their own win condition. Yes, it's nicer to escape as survivor but if I feel I contributed, there's no salt if I don't. If a killer wants to slug for the 4K, I don't mind. They'll have their own reasons for doing it and that's their fun to do so. It's me that got slugged/allowed my team to all be killed so easily without executing enough pressure of my own before it got to this stage.
I've either never been hit by Smash, or it happened early enough in my DBD career that I didn't notice it. I don't think I've ever seen it in lobby post-game either, which is bizarre. It's niche, certainly, but I feel it's simple enough that someone would want to run it on occasion. Props to you for being surprising, I suppose.
I admit I am still somewhat reliant on Windows. Despite this game being in my top 10 most played on steam, I'm still learning maps, pallet spawns, vault locations and how all of those things vary. I'm quite sure I'll need several hundred more hours to begin knowing these things intuitively. Then again, I know gen spawns now outside of the new map, so perhaps not quite that long? Who knows! It does feel crutchy sometimes. I try to be sure of where I'm running to but there are still times where I W towards the yellow and figure it out when I get there, which is a bad habit. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064393#Comment_4064393
Yeah, I apologize for the cussing in my videos lol.
I think a lot of people might whiplash when they see how analytical I am compared to how I am when I'm gaming. I've been trying to tone it down, but you know how gaming moments are.
Yep, I remember playing Skull Merchant (back before her nerfs) and I did not tunnel, camp - even stretching to proxy camping. Just regular no fluff, no toxicity as Skull Merchant. Two people DCed relatively early in the game, I decided to then kill the bots and allow the two to go. It's amazing because when I did play killer, I obviously played similar to how I handle my survivor gameplay. I go for the win, but I typically did not go out of my way to tunnel/camp - I didn't feel like I needed to do it and for the most part, I played with meta perks. I think the least meta perk I've used is with Skull Merchant back in the day (Thwack, Pop, Nowhere To Hide, and Surge) - still my build on her even if I have no intentions to play her again.
I very rarely slugged for the 4k, only did that when I was going against a 4 man SWF with hatch offerings and flashlights/flashbangs. Similar to a Wraith game that I've talked about on here. I feel like people read my comments and wonder why I do not play flex or a killer main, as I've said I find it boring. - that isn't to look down on killer mains, I view them as a peer, similar to a sparring partner.
I also will admit that I do get more tilted when I played killer than I did survivor - I still tilt as survivor, but I do not really sacrifice the match over being tilted. I am aware people make mistakes, I do not punish people for making those mistakes verbally. I will punish your mistakes in game, but I will not go out of my way and insult you.
I do feel like I ran meta because I could afford to do that. A lot of killer mains I see (even the killer main friend I talked about earlier ^) stated that he thinks exhaustion perks are second chance, I obviously disagree and view them as tools to be used - just like the killer strategies I believe killers can utilize too. The point being I tell people all the time, if you are struggling with a persistent perk itself - re-evaluate your build and counter it.
I ran meta because exhaustion as killer did not bother me, second chance (I hardly got hit with them anyways) didn't bother me - so, I could afford to play with meta perks without feeling bad for using them. Even in the Wraith game, I used Starstruck because I saw the survivors had flashlights. - I literally went in my build, swapped a meta perk out for Starstruck, had a rough start on Eyrie of Crows, but managed to 4k.
I truly believe Starstruck is slept on compared to Lightborn and I'd argue Starstruck is better macro wise than Lightborn. I think a lot of people think I should be a killer main, but alas I like to play survivor so I dropped killer and I do not have any intention to pick it up again in all honesty.
Not that the role is bad, it's too easy, it's too hard - I simply prefer outsmarting the power role and punishing them for their mistakes. Same for when I get outsmarted and punished for my mistakes, I respect when a killer can outplay me.
but you know how gaming moments are.
A proverbial heated gamer moment. I can't watch anything at work, even though I'm clearly not being productive anyway! Might check it out later when I've got the time.
The degree to which I sweat depends entirely on who I am playing against. Less about proving a point and more about what's fun. If the game is going too well when I'm trying, that's my chance to try the world's most unlikely mindgame as an experiment, or go for axe orbitals, or try and make the billion different killer techs work in a real game setting. To be honest, I am still to slug specifically for the 4k. I have slugged someone before to go and find the one player that had been stealthing the whole game, hook them, then let the slug stand back up by backpacking them around for a a bit. Let them choose if they wanted to save the teammate who let everyone else get to 2/3 hooks. They chose not to. Maybe that was toxic of me, coulda just been a scared player, but after the game they appeared to have more than enough prestige levels to understand that they were playing selfishly to a point of near sandbagging.
In terms of exhaustion, I don't mind them. I actually like how dynamic they can make the game sometimes. A player I know has lithe is likely to take more risks for a vault if they're trapped on an unsafe tile, so I can zone the vault. A player with balanced landing is gonna favour an upstairs gen under most circumstances, so when do I pressure them off to get them on cooldown, and do I do this directly, or by pressuring the rest of the team? Or do I just chase anyway because their perch has no safe tiles nearby? Dead hard is funny when they miss so that's always worth it, and if they get it, I have to respect it, because it's essentially a parry and they read me to accomplish that.
In terms of playing killer vs survivor and who I main, I am pretty stark 50/50. I expected to be mostly killer, especially as my early survivor experience was so much more difficult, but playing survivor taught me so much about killer that I invested time, and now I enjoy it about as much for different reasons.
I'm not much into theorycrafting builds yet, as I'm still sub 1k. I tend to run basically what I feel like. I must admit I'm a bit addicted to balanced landing, though. It's probably because I can't seem to roll a map that isn't saloon. -
@cogsturning said:
Maybe we can wait more than a day of live to doom and gloom? It remains to be seen if people even use the new perk over Windows.
Best take this thread is going to have. PTB is a vertical slice and he was clearly still very functional. It remains to be seen how this will play out over time with a much larger sample size of matches.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064376#Comment_4064376
Yes, precisely the Claudette moment.
You have people trying to dictate and optimize other people when us survivors do not operate on that plane. I hardly if ever message people, unless like they did something then I have to go out of my way (add on Steam, message) or Xbox (communicate there). I do not come at survivors to ask them why they did such and such - I might have done that years ago but I can probably count on one hand of me doing it. Even then, it's more of an education situation rather than a git gud moment.
I think a lot of people forget their own roots. You were not as good as you are today, you sat and invested time into a game. I've seen people with less than 1k hours and know micro gameplay (flashlight saves, looping movement, and general game sense). This is why I opt to help than to criticize. People will complain that survivors are brain dead, can't take chase, can't do x, can't do y - but then they don't take the time to help the person. It creates stagnation and I do not want stagnation on either side - it is why I say use what you want. Four Gen regression, Thana/Dying Light Plague/Legion, impossible skill check Doctor, aura reading mobility killers / Huntress, slugging, tunneling, whatever it is you want to do - I will work around it and adapt.
People need both the adapt mindset and also to stop degrading others. It isn't cool, it isn't fun to make a Claudette have to apologize for something that was never that deep in the first place. It's just something that bothers me, I don't know lol.
Also, for Wesker what I like to do is create space for him just like I would handle a Krasue. I will pre-drop with a Wesker, if a Wesker vaults the pallet - I vault back over it. It's why I wish Kaneki had a similar mechanic - sometimes you can do it, other times you're just down to the power. - Wesker struggles with objects between you and Wesker, yes Weskers can do their little techs but the ideal is to keep an obstacle between you and Wesker - same for a Krasue.
You might have to forgive the typos by the by. I'm doing this on a work laptop and there's no native spellcheck on the browser I have to use D:
As I'm still sub-1k, I recognise that I'm in a position of not being good by long-term standards, but competent and able to contribute decently in every facet of the game. I've even hit a point where I consciously hold back as killer just to make the game more fun on rare occasions, which is surprising as I never thought I'd be good enough to get away with that. I recall a game with two Feng Mins. They were clearly together and there was a very noticeable difference in how they moved. It was for sure an experienced player helping their new friend get used to the game. Every time I went near the less experienced Feng Min, the other was there bagging desperately for the chase to protect her. It was cute, to be honest. So, I obliged, chased, hooked, and when I had no info other than where baby Feng was, I chased her, but went pure M1, maybe letting her get away with a single hit instead of confirming the second. The result was an EGC where high-hour Feng was thanking me and low-hour Feng was enthusing over how scary the game was.
People do forget that this game takes time to get good at. The skill floor for survivor is shockingly high given it's supposed to be 80% of the playerbase at any given point. The majority of people also respond better to positive reinforcement rather than negative. People say they want the game to survive then immediately condemn terrible players for being terrible, instead of being inexperienced. Getting targeted with hate when you're new or stepping out of your comfort zone is gonna discourage you from doing the thing. If the thing is playing the game at all because you're too new to understand why you're getting hate, then that's the thing you stop. Boom, we lose a potentially great member of the community and they forever see this one as a mire of anger and toxicity. Not gonna claim to be fully innocent, though. Sometimes I get mad at my team. I just keep that internal.
Wesker is one of the only killers left that gets to my panicky side. I'm pretty reactive to certain things, and my mental is my biggest hurdle. I can survive Blight/Nurse for considerably longer than I can survive Myers or Wesker. Something about the way Myers still jumpscares the hell out of me to this day, or the sound design on Wesker's dash, activates some primal prey-response in me when I'm survivor, and I struggle to think ahead. I do appreciate the tips though. Forgetting to vault back is probably my gravest vs-Wesker sin. -
@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064328#Comment_4064328
Imo, the only character from Infinite that would really work as a Killer is Atlas/Frank Fontaine, specifically when he is in his final boss form from BioShock 1. Every other character are either just too much of a regular enemy to feel like they fit as a Killer or cannot be adapted properly without requiring too many liberties to be taken, in order to work in DBD. (I'm looking at you Songbird.)
I think regular enemies do work as killers. A lot of people are happy with the idea of a Big Daddy killer, and they're just enemies for the most part.
For Infinite, I do feel there are less 'iconic' options, as Songbird & the Handymen are too large. Lady Comstock is an idea but she already felt kinda out of touch with the feel of the base game, so adding her would be like adding Jason's mother instead of Jason Voorhees himself as killer. Most other regular enemies are too gun dependent. A modified mechanical patriot that can only use its gun as a cooldown ability is possible.
One thing that does draw me to Infinite though is the idea of rifts. Survivors being able to interact with them, opening one to create new resources in a specific tile, but doing so closes the rift elsewhere meaning there's opportunity cost to doing this. It would also need a decent global cooldown and a small animation to keep it fair and stop survivors from endlessly fighting over who gets a safe pallet near their chosen gen. This would need to be compenstated for by having a fairly strong killer to go with it. -
@brewingtea said:
I totally understand why people would disagree with me, but…
Losing big as Survivor is worse. So often, it feels like you can't even DO anything. The killer happened to bring an Iri addon and you can't communicate the Hex's location because you're in solo queue and UGGGGGHHHHHH
At least if I face a 4-man bully squad, it requires actual skill to loop for 5 gens, body-block accurately, etc. I'd much rather lose to what I perceive as a "better team" than to what feels like a poorly-designed map or offering or whatever.
Valid take, to be honest. There are some survivor games where I know I screwed up, and taking that loss is fine. There are some killers that I see so rarely that I don't know effective counterplay intuitively, so I lose and feel I cannot do anything, and that sucks. The worst case is when I match with 3 people not doing gens while I take chase, or handing the killer a free snowball with poorly thought out saves when I'm not in chase. Seeing lots of bellycrawling going on somewhere else on the map while I work on completing the first gen is a knock for sure.
I don't agree, but I respect your view and understand where it comes from. My kyrptonite is a good Wesker. Wesker is not OP I just suck against him. Those are my survivor games where I feel i can't do anything, as you described. Anecdotally, bad-to-medium-skill Weskers are the most DC prone of any killer I face, maybe on par with Springtrap, so I'm never in a game with him long enough to feel the other side.@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064360#Comment_4064360
Yes, so for sure - we started more than likely around the same time.
I started in 2022, I was consistently playing (currently 4.1k hours) but I go through periods where I don't feel like playing. It's sad, I say this to my friends all the time that I am a single player girly. But Dead By Daylight keeps bringing me back, similar to Mass Effect 3 Multi-player as I've said before.
I think that's the reason why I come on here, share what I think would help someone else, and even if it's the "other side" - I do not believe in gatekeeping knowledge. It's the same I got from going on the ME3MP forums and Reddit. I got to see spreadsheets, optimal builds, best guns to use, how to play characters, and I fell in love. Similar to this game, I just wish the community was more like the ME3MP variant. Any time someone struggled, you were helped. Any time you needed advice, they were there to answer. Hardly if ever did I experience toxicity in that game (granted, it's PVE and you're going against hordes but it was nice to experience a gaming community that uplifted you.)
You could go a round of soloing in Gold/Platinum (what I played) and be thanked. Hardly if ever people back on the PS3 (I played back then lol) would come out and make excuses, being toxic, nothing. - I am not saying I never experienced it before, but on the top of my head it's two times.
I get way more toxicity in the game of Dead By Daylight, even arguably more than I got from other games - Fortnite, Overwatch, GTA Online. It's a travesty, given how much I care for the game itself even though I disagree with the developers on some things.
I try to be the bridge between both roles, I don't really try to be tribalism or us v them - it doesn't fix anything.
Fully on board. I even make posts purely for good vibes because people get so bogged down in their negativity about a game they are supposed to willingly give their free time, I think they forget what they participate for in the first place. DBD is a game where negative experiences are much more memorable, because amazing plays usually have a more etheral impact on the overall gamestate. It's not like popping off in a hero shooter, allowing a clean break to secure the objective and win the game as a direct consequence. Moments like that still happen, but in general most plays contribute to a push and pull of who is applying the most pressure to the other side, instead of who is making a game-winning play with a single decision.
I think we all consciously agree we'd prefer a more unified playerbase. Like I said earlier, it's a net positive if everyone is having fun. Survivors having more fun are less likely to DC or give up and request you hook them so they can abandon, which is more fun for killer and vice versa. The issue is most see any buff to the enjoyability of one role as a nerf to their chosen role (this is true sometimes, cannot lie), and it breeds arguments based on fear of losing out.
Even when it seems not to be worth it, I'm always nice in EGC. I'll credit particular players that I noticed were really good, and never bring attention to someone doing poorly. I think the most toxic I've been is cut in on another survivor blaming out Claudette over some nonsense. The Claudette said sorry and I told them not to apologise, as they did fine and the other player doesn't need it reinforced that hurling insults gets them validation like that. New players will make mistake. Hell, the old guard make mistakes too. DBD is a hard game and we could do to remember that. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064351#Comment_4064351
Haha, you are fine.
I will not make it a Kaneki thread or whatever, I do feel there is counterplay and I do not DC against a Kaneki.
I still have my Kaneki fatigue, but I won't flat out say that the killer has no skill expression - I do think he has a low skill floor, but I won't derail the topic.
You and I are similar, even though I play survivor mainly - I still come here to share my thoughts, give advice to both killer and survivor, and try not to get into emotional spats. It's why I typically take months away from the forums, it sometimes feels as if I'm speaking a foreign language when I'm communicating with a survivor ^ as shown above or I'm too "analytical".
I come here to help, share my thoughts, give advice to people who are obviously struggling (whether killer main or survivor main) simply because I want people to enjoy the game without feeling as if they are completely devoid of decisions. The game suffers from giving the players the utility to do better - it is why content creators typically push the game forward, in my opinion.
People struggle with the game, look up content creators, copy them, still struggle, come to the conclusion x role sucks because I still struggled with y's advice and videos. This is an unpopular opinion for sure, but I do wish that the community would actively try to use different perks instead of parroting what content creators say.
Yeah, I think we are. I'm someone that likes to consider every emotion valid, but vitriol is something I feel is entirely unproductive. Being angry is a natural response, but what we do with that response is where we separate good & bad (referring to choice, not an entire person).
I'm fairly recent to the forums. I'm actually a relative newcomer to the game outright, having first played in 2022, dropped the game, and came back due to long-term sickness that kept me off work. Boredom got me to try the game again, boredom got me to invest hours enough to feel confident enough to chat with a community that - outside-looking-in - is very intimidating to default Megs or baby Wraiths.
I think my focus on the emotional aspects of the game comes from me seeing it as the true source for a majority of complaints/discourse I see online. Sometimes there is objective truth behind the emotional response, sometimes there isn't, but the outcome is equivalent. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064340#Comment_4064340
I see, when I say I don't want to talk about feelings - I'm not trying to minimize or invalidate others.
However, a "feeling" is not something that every player experiences in this game. Like I say to my friend who is a killer main, says the game is survivor sided - on the same level say that survivors are brain dead.
There is a lot of sentiment and I've seen it when seeing what survivors write, killers write, and others who obviously know how to play the role they play and not adopt a negativity bias.
That's what I think a major issue in this game is: you get steamrolled, you think - alright, I'm going to slap on the worst build, I'm going to down this survivor, and I'm going to hump them or nod at them. It's the same toxicity you see on the survivor side because people do not know how to handle their own emotions, not take it out onto others the very next game they load into.
Just being you got juiced by an Ellen from last game doesn't mean the Meg that you've downed in x amount of time gets the BM, the humps, the head nods.
This is why I say I do not like to talk feelings, people have different experiences depending on the match-up type, how the game progresses, and have negativity bias.
A killer can go game after game with 2-3ks and then have a game where all the survivors leave or have a 3k, come here to vent, have a validation party, and never have the mentality challenged.
Thats fair. I don't condone emotion as an excuse for lashing out in game. My head nods are exclusive to funny moments, such as getting chain pallet stunned multiple times and waving my mouse to show the survivor it's a rough time but I'm in good spirits, or maybe shaking my head at a killer that has me cornered edge-map and comedically begging for mercy. No salt if they don't give it.
I'm a 50/50 player. Which is sort of the source of this question. I can feel heated in both roles but it is a very different kind of heated, which made me curious about other perspectives. People that don't spread their playtime as much or at all will bring perspectives I haven't considered.
In general, when I see people come here after a bad match, obviously angry, they get shut down to a degree, because people are pushing back on this adversarial mindset between survivors and killers. I tend to join this, asking such players to explain specifically what was unfair to understand where they are coming from. I find general game frustration to be an unproductive critique as well. It's more interesting and beneficial to discuss what elements of the game resulted in such frustration and why that is. The game being fun is literally the only thing everyone sees as a goal, and having fun is a consequence of vibes, not logic.
Ghoul is a common one (just an example - please avoid making this a Ghoul thread despite my hypocrisy for bringing him up) to see discussed despite the numbers showing that they're middle of the pack in terms of power. I don't believe Ghoul is OP but for the health of the game, some review is needed there. I don't pretend to know the solution, just that one needs to be considered without Skulling his Merchant, if you catch my drift.
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@CautionaryMary said:
Even though I don't like to talk about "feelings" - so, it's hard for me to answer this question.
Some will argue that losing as a killer is hurtful because you are going against four other people. You are 1v4 every single trial, you have to keep tempo to have map pressure (hence why slugging, tunneling, and gen regression is prevalent). You lose, most of the time it's misplays on what you did. Overextending, not checking your gens, eating a DS/Off The Record (if tunneling) and your time is "wasted" (even if I'd argue that you chose to do a risk play, you got a consequence). You choose to slug, you cannot calculate if this survivor has Unbreakable. You hook someone at the exit gate, they have Deliverance. You choose to not slug for the 4k, hook the third to last survivor, they get hatch = no 4k for you. So, yes killer is highly dependent on you and your own decision-making throughout the game (not to mention end game salt) that you get as a killer or the vitriol given.
Survivor is the same way: even if you are working as a unified unit (this is how I view survivor) - if you have a weak link on your team that dies in less than 30 seconds each time they're in chase, it feels like you're punching upwards as a survivor. Someone unhooks in front of the killer, goes down on the hook, and you have one person on the ground and still the hooked person is there - a moment in your head goes, "What happened?" as the other survivors watch a misplay the more than likely cost the entire game and you're not even involved in the situation at hand. Same thing for when survivors heal and they go down in succession, a lot of that is groaning moments and wondering what happened for that to occur. I can continue on, but you get the point that I'm making.
For the general community, I would say killer feels more unbalanced because you are working at a 1:4 ratio, you make decisions, you feel the immediate consequences of the actions you have chosen during the trial. I get more irritated from a survivor perspective as I main survivor, so obviously my answer would be biased as I see survivor misplay (on my end, I'm not allergic to misplays) and seeing other people committing mistakes that just gave the killer easy map pressure for zero reason.
Even though I don't like to talk about "feelings" - so, it's hard for me to answer this question.
I understand the hestitation to discuss feelings, because feelings gets us bad decisions. I also think that dismissing them outright is not the right way to go about things either. As logical as we all like to profess we are, human beings are emotional creatures. We play this game for the emotional responses it stirs in us, not because it is a productive activity. It's why I argue that balancing should not be strictly around hook rates, kill rates, or any other numerical perfomrance metric exclusively, but also address the impact this has on fun.
I think your full response is pretty well written. Especially the note regarding the immediate feedback of killer vs survivor. Losing badly as survivor gives you so many ways to not blame yourself, or not realise where you messed up. Killer puts your mistakes on blast every time you make one immediately. That makes one more visceral. -
Sorry for necro, but this has been on my mind lately as my killer anxiety has been very up and down. I am also autistic, although I was diagnosed late in life (and relatively recently) so I struggle to know when my issues pertain to being overwhlemed in general, or if I'm reacting due to the above.
My anxiety comes from both being the centre of attention and the risk of humiliation, which the above-linked video highlights.
I have found some success in dealing with it, so I'll give a few points about it:
- Narrate your game.
This one might feel weird as you're not streaming to anyone (I think) but talking myself through what I'm doing helps me manage all the sensory input. If a gen goes off unexpectantly I might say "change of plans, I'm going to do x now instead" and just go for it. We can control speech, less so thoughts, so making our planning/execution vocal can keep you focused on your current objective, instead of starting to panic. - Vocalising positively when things go wrong.
Part of the first point - If someone gets a stun or flashlight save, I immediately say "well played" regardless of my temperament. Saying it out loud is an important part of this for me, as I have control over what I say, not what I think. It forces me to only engage with it as credit to them, not disparaging myself. - See the positives in the negatives.
If you are getting hit by the classic bully squad, understand that the more of them are partaking, the less gen progress there is, so they're not actually doing much to win and a 3-4k is still on the table. - Use anonymous mode.
Taking away the personal link to your performance helps with the mental game, I think. Sure, you could play terribly and be mocked, but no one knows its you. I don't always do this but I prefer to on days where I know I'm more sensitive than usual. You can go further and hide EGC if toxicity gets to you. - Stick out every match to the end.
Don't give up, don't DC. Just stick it out, do your best, if you realise there's no win on the table, keep trying as it's an opportunity to learn. In games like this I always drop a ggwp in the EGC, because I want to respect their skill. It also works as mild exposure therapy to difficult games.
There's probably more detailed and better advice you could get, but I'm speaking from my own experience. I'm a highly anxious person in general - a lot of which I now know is a consequence of masking for 3 decades - and these things have helped me level it out. It still happens sometimes, but not often.
- Narrate your game.
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4x DC from survivors should result in the same immediate game end as a killer DC, with it being considered a 4K. Downing a bot is less about outplaying them and more herding them or exploiting their AI, it's easy but time consuming. It's not an expression of your skill in the game, there's no real fun to be had. If I wanted to chase bots around I'd run a custom game.
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@THE1MJK said:
So y'all mad about contradicting yourselves 🤣🤣😅😅😅 y'all don't even play y'all own game people that buy it do again y'all said y'all make the game for people and fans to have fun so I'm going to be 1 to make y'all stand on those words don't worry he'll make y'all money he'll do a estimate of what Chucky did maybe more fans have been talking about Leprechaun being added to DBD for Years how about listening to the people and fans.
You need to relax, dude.
Your suggestion is fine and I'd wanna discuss the idea, but you're so unnecessarily hostile off the bat. Who spat in your cornflakes? -
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Another factor is if you are playing a killer you main, you feel like you are failing to get better with that killer, or that the killer has reached its limmit in strength making you feel helpless. As survivor you expect to lose, try to escape. As killer you naturally expect to win, try not to lose.
It especially hurts when you actualy finnish chases really fast and still the generators fly faster.
Don't I know this. What's worse is I actually suck with my main, Spirit. So I gotta eat my ego for breakfast lunch and dinner every time I play.
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I think it's only fair I drop all pretenses.
@random1543 said:
I think it depends if you are on the loosing end of the unbalanced MMR.
But I lean Killer being worse feel only because the time spent in match, If the survivors are lower skill they are going to loose pretty quickly or everyone ends up giving up into abandon, if a killer is lower skill they have to wait for all the gens to be done and end game if survivors are rude and wont leave until the end.This spells it out to be honest. I feel the only argument that could be made for survivor being rougher is very early on when you don't understand what killers do. Chases feel effectively impossible.
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I understand the amount of negativity people have towards it. I've seen bad chats. But I think removing it outright instead of having it be opt-out would be a loss. I've seen constructive interactions too, people hyping each other up or just generally being polite with ggs and wps.
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After my games today… Yeah, it can't come soon enough.
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My hope is a decision like this would come paired with a rework, because like the visual TR indicator, everyone would turn it on as soon as they are aware of it. I like Spirit, even if I'm not very good at her, and as @PetTheDoggo pointed out, anything precise would flatten her entirely without changing how her power is balanced.