zarr
zarr
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The problem is less that randoms forget where they cleansed a Hex (although that surely happens too), it's more that they don't even have a clue what Pentimento is. Either because they genuinely just don't know the perk and as such have no clue that cleansed totems can be reignited (then they'll spend ages looking for a Hex elsewhere because they have some Hex notification but surely it can't be where they already cleansed a totem!), or they just never touch gens so they don't even know it's in play (randoms rarely touch gens, so that's a common scenario).
And people that clueless aren't likely to be reading forums either. They'll even keep going on dull totem cleansing sprees against Pentimento, I've seen it often enough, in both my killer and survivor games. High MMR btw.
The only sensible advice is that as always in solo queue, you gotta be prepared to do everything yourself. Bring a map that can track totems, and then either pair that up with Boon(s) or Inner Healing + Overzealous.
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Save The Best For Last, Bamboozle/Crowd Control, Dissolution and Blood Favour have some specific synergy with him.
STBFL is obvious, you can conserve stacks using your ability to hit the Obsession, and whenever you M1 anyone, STBFL can allow you to follow that up with a bound and catch them immediately. Bamboozle is also obvious: you vault after someone using your ability and now if there's nothing else in the immediate vicinity they get hit, because they can't make it back around and use the window. Same for Crowd Control.
Dissolution is less obvious, but it has some neat uses for Wesker (and perhaps some more I haven't figured out yet). If you vault over a pallet with a bound, it's not rare that the survivor can make it back around to that same pallet; if you have Dissolution up however, vaulting over pallets becomes a more potent tool to catch up since they can't return to that pallet. And if survivors run away from the pallet to avoid Dissolution, you can catch up to them with bounds. It also makes up for cases where getting to a pallet can save them from your incoming bound. You can just hold your bound in these scenarios because they are screwed if they vaullt and screwed if they don't - if they vault you bound after them and get the guaranteed hit since the pallet dissolves, and if they don't vault you can cancel your ability and M1 them, since they still can't vault.
Blood Favour is pretty cool because sometimes you can tackle or throw people into corners of maps or just away from tiles in general, so now they will have an even harder time getting to any usable pallet, especially given that Wesker can follow up with bounds. Throwing people against stuff even in general can cut down the distance they make quite siginificantly, Blood Favour is not seldomly a more or less guaranteed down then.
STBFL also makes all of these perks even more potent, giving survivors even less distance such that they are even less likely to be able to get around Bamboozle/Crowd Control, Dissolution and Favour, so if you want to have an oppressive chase potential, use all 4.
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Yeah, it's an inconsistency since they have the same wording. I'm afraid they'll sooner make OH not apply to Kindred either than reconsider on Wiretap, though.
Which is of course ridiculous. Wiretap is a frankly lackluster perk that will fall into obscurity fast (it's not seeing much use at all to begin with). With OH, it would still be fairly far from becoming meta, but it would at least see some play at all because it would actually be alright then.
Given the fact that you have to work 1/3rd of a gen to be able to activate Wiretap and that it then stays active for 80 seconds within which you cannot activate it again, you will be getting like 2 activations out of it in an average game. And it deactivates if the gen is completed or the killer kicks the gen. The latter not only means there's reliable, simple counterplay to the perk, but with Brine/Overcharge/Eurption being meta perks, a lot of the time it's something the killer wants and is going to do regardless. And 14m is just decidedly too little - it's already situational for the perk to have any impact whatsoever (killer has to come to your gen within its timer, not kick it, and to get real value it then also requires the killer to chase you around the gen, which also has to be within a structure where line of sight can be broken), but then 14m also means if the gen is not right in a gym/LT or main building, you can't really keep the chase within the perk range.
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I bet it was FoR cOnSiStEnCy with Wiretap. Yeah, Blast Mine was already more of a mediocre "fun" perk that not many people used, and it's trash now, since what was actually reliable and neat about it was the aura reveal of the gen for other survivors, which if you use that now, will take your perk away.
Wiretap didn't need this limitation to begin with, it's barely worth using without it either. Especially since they didn't go for cOnSiStEnCy with Open-Handed on this. I bet they'll sooner make OH not apply to Kindred as well.
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Not sure how unpopular this is, but Pyramid Head is a laughably unhealthy gameplay design and nobody's really complaining about it, which I suspect is however mostly because he isn't a particularly popular killer and because not a lot of people go out of their way to actually abuse him.
Cages ignore just about everything of the already much too limited means survivors have to combat camping and tunnelling. Exhaustion doesn't reset when caged. You get no unhook invincibility nor Endurance when uncaged. Borrowed Time, Off The Record and Decisive Strike do not activate when uncaged. Deliverance doesn't activate when uncaging someone, and you also cannot use Deliverance if caged. Kindred, Kinship and Reassurance do not work on cages. Tormented does not clear when hooked on a normal hook, meaning it still gets around DS.
And the measures BHVR put in place to combat Pyramid's ability to camp and tunnel are utterly inadequate. Yeah the survivor gets teleported across the map into a cage and the killer does not get an aura for them, but since there are only a limited number of possible spawn points for cages and since they will spawn far away from the killer, it is possible for the player to narrow it down to about two or at most three areas where the cage could possibly be. Not only that, but uncaging someone still gives the killer the global notification, so they will know exactly where that happened and can go for the tunnel.
The relocation mechanic in place for cages is even more ineffective. The range for triggering this relocation is 5 meters and 3.5 seconds, which already means it is entirely possible for Pyramid to proxi-camp cages until death and temporarily facecamp as well, but what's worse is that Pyramid just so happens to have a ranged attack that can injure and down over a distance of 8 meters (and up to 10.5m with add-ons), which he can also hold indefinitely. You can just stand there aiming at the cage, and if anyone uncages, instantly down the uncaged survivor again while also injuring/downing the uncager. Amazing.
And even in the rare instances where the relocation mechanic does come into play, that most of the time means survivors were contesting the cage at its former location and the timer was most likely already nearing its end - now the cage will be teleported to another end of the map, where survivors in all likeliness won't even make it in time even if they were to instantly run there (which of course allows Pyramid to just follow them, if not down them beforehand). The cage progression is paused for 10 seconds upon relocating, but that's not nearly enough to run across the entire map.
Pyramid already has a great chase power, and saves a lot of time with cages, which also play around stuff like pallet, flashlight and sabo saves. There is no reason other than "f*** you" that he also needs cages to be instruments to camp and tunnel with impunity. In my opinion, they should buff the Tormented effect to do more than allow Pyramid to cage/kill survivors, but nerf cages such that they do not circumvent the - again, already too limited - means of combatting camping and tunnelling. At the very least, the range for the cage relocation has to be 10.5m such that Pyramid can't just effectively still facecamp by holding his ability. There should be no notification for uncaging interactions. Cages can still circumvent perks that directly involve hooks (BT, OTR, DS, Deliverance, Kindred, Kinship, Reassurance, etc.), but it should not also get rid of basic hook mechanics, meaning unhook invincibility and Endurance, Exhaustion reset. Hooking a survivor on a normal hook should clear Tormented. I also don't think Pyramid should be able to hold his ability indefinitely - the power bar should keep depleting at the same rate it does when moving and leaving trails. This would also limit his ability to constantly spam punishments.
Buffs for Pyramid could be stuff like: Trails do not disappear on their own any longer, the oldest trails only disappear once your maximum amount of trails is reached and you put down new trails, the new replacing the old. Survivors cannot crouch through trails any longer. This would already make trails a much more effective ability in terms of map control/awareness. On top of this, Tormented survivors could suffer from various ill affects, such as Mangled, Hemorrhage, Hindered, Blindness, and so on, which add-ons could also modify. Survivors running through a trail could also suffer from extra Hindered for as long as they do.
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Personally, I feel like more than latency being the issue, it's that there's some sort of delay innate to new Dead Hard when you actuate it before it actually activates its effects. I say this because I tested new DH against a high latency killer and hit validation on it still works (although of course, if you as a survivor player have a high latency, that will get you killed despite DH).
With old DH, I was able to consistently proc it in time to dodge stuff like hatchets, blinks, rushes and such, which are pretty telegraphed hit instances. If I died despite having actuated DH, that was mostly prior to the implementation of DH validation, and it also meant that I would see myself DH and then die. With new DH, it's as if I never actuated the perk to begin with, despite being the same person with the same reaction time playing against the same sort of instances. With Nurse it is particularly obvious because now in order to be able to get DH to work with any reliability, I have to basically actuate it while she is charging her blink, whereas in the past it was possible to watch for her blink travel route and only then DH.
So my theory is that either the devs backed a ~100ms delay into the perk after activation before it even does anything, or it's that the servers are still causing a desync between clients, inducing artificial latency which is always to the survivors' detriment.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3152904#Comment_3152904
All I am saying is that a killer has NEVER reached out and called me anything. Survivors do it on the regular. This is not even an "us versus them" as I play both sides. It is more of an observation, one that I happen to share with a lot of the community because I watch a lot of toxic videos and you can imagine how the ratio must be skewed. Those delusional killers are probably just survivors mains on killer given how unicorn rare they are. It would not surprise me in the slightest.
This couldn't be more "us versus them". In saying this, you are assuming that it's different types of humans that play either role. Think about it, if both roles are played by humans (duh), and you say "survivors do it more often", you are saying the people playing survivor usually are a different type of human. But why would we assume that there's some actual split in the "types of humans" that play killer or survivor? Not least given the fact that plenty people play both?
Isn't it a much, much more sensible notion to consider that if people playing survivor actually more often lash out in post-game chat or whatever, it might be because the playing experience and the psychological dynamics of the gameplay and the game format are more consistently frustrating or at least more conducive to feeling the need and want to vent those frustrations for humans on the survivor side? Players on the survivor side get hit, injured, downed, hooked and killed by the player on the killer side, they get temporarily incapacitated and even taken out of the game entirely. And they have no recourse to this since their agency is stripped away from them, they don't get any of the emotional relief that even just hitting someone could bring. Hence, they might wait to verbally lash out at the other player, using the chat as an outlet. That's just one reason why it could be understandable that humans react more strongly or vocally to bad experiences on the survivor side, they regularly have no other outlet to "get back" at the killer player. Another reason could be the sociopsychological dynamics the game format creates, where you have a group of 4 survivor players and only 1 killer player, which means there is regularly more blame assigned to the 1 player if people thought the match was bad, and being in a group, they are also expected to feel more comfortable to level such blame openly since they feel more supported by others. Not least because as only 1 player in a group of 4, they feel less responsible for how badly a round might have went, or even feel like they've had no agency in it whatsoever (obviously not true, but psychologically it can be) - this means that levelling blame as a survivor player is attached to less of a feeling of admitting that you played badly and such, to yourself and others, whereas a killer player blaming and complaining in this way despite having had all the agency possible is indirectly admitting that they tried and cared, but simply couldn't manage to deal with whatever happened. Additionally, as one player in a group of four, it can be that a person feels like they were singled out and treated disproportionally "unfairly", and even though that most of the time of course has nothing to do with the killer player having something personally against that survivor player (they usually don't know them whatsoever), this is an emotional disposition that can exist for survivor players, but not the killer player, because they are just the one player, they can't feel treated unfairly relative to someone else in a match because they are the only one there.
Those just as some suggestions as to why players playing as survivor might lash out more in chat. Although I do have to say it's not really my experience that this happens regularly, it's really rather rare for me to see insults, and then it's not like survivors do it 4 times more often either, which would be the expected ratio given that there's 4 people playing survivor for any 1 playing killer in a given match. What I do however see is much more complaining and accusing on Steam profiles regarding camping and tunnelling and such, which is explainable to me by what I suggested above, in combination with the fact that survivors getting camped or tunnelled out often might not want to stick around watching the round play out, so they don't have the chat as an outlet, and instead head to the profile's comment section, again, mostly just because they are frustrated humans seeking relief, as anyone might, not because they are a "toxic, survivor-playing type of human".
What's delusional is the idea that "survivor mains playing killer" are somehow still "survivors". You again showcase that in your mind, they are somehow branded "survivors" in a way that is disconnected from just being people happening to play one role or another in the game, like a type of human belonging to some group. The reality is that in any match where a person plays killer, they are simply a killer player. They are just as much a human playing killer as anyone else would be in that spot. In general I see this sentiment here a lot, trying to group people into sides and camps rather than see that we're all just humans playing a game.
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Blame the game devs because when they thought they had gotten rid of hatch standoffs, they didn't consider this. And they still never address it.
While I agree that it is lame for a player to stand on hatch refusing to close it, as long as it is possible it will always happen, people are people regardless of the role they play in a video game. As others have said, you could have repaired gens here, you are in a unique position to do so because if she tries to interrupt you, you can make a run for hatch and most likely still escape through it since you have Sole Survivor which increases your hatch opening speed.
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Dead Hard/Balanced Landing/Lithe - Pick your poison in terms of Exhaustion perk. Sprint Burst is also good if you are good at recovering Exhaustion mid-chase, particularly alongside Vigil of course. Smash Hit and Overcome aren't awful, just not top picks, and Head On is actually pretty underrated: you can locker-dodge various killer abilities (blinks, rushes, chainsaws, shreds, pounces, demon strikes, hatchets, judgements, throwing knives (especially in Main Event), spears, ...) and Head On can allow you to actually get away afterwards.
Resilience - Faster window and pallet vaults.
Windows Of Opportunity - Always amazing to know in advance how a structure spawned, which pallets spawned/haven't been used yet.
Adrenaline and Hope - Prolong endgame chases a lot.
Alert - See where pallets are being used up, as well as the killer aura in your chases, which can help with mindgaming. Even the confirmation alone that the killer is entering the pallet break interaction rather than faking it can come in handy sometimes.
Self-Aware and Urban Evasion - These can allow you to walk and crouch more often in chases, which is good to break chase state (countering Bloodlust and Entity blocker), recover Exhaustion and dodge projectiles.
Quick & Quiet - Go for vaults without the killer knowing you did.
Object Of Obsession - Getting the killer aura mid-chase is always good, either due to the periodic reveal or because they have aura add-ons/perks.
Dark Sense - Again, in-chase aura reading.
Iron Will - Not actually entirely dead. Unless the killer is playing at full blast volume with a pair of great headphones and whatnot, using this on a survivor that is already more so on the quiet side can actually still fairly reliably enable you to go for unconventional pathing and risky mindgames in chases.
Dead Hard, Resilience, Windows, Hope, or Balanced Landing, Resilience, Windows, Iron Will are two builds I more regularly use. Sprint Burst, Vigil, Self-Aware, Hope. Head On, Quick & Quiet, Inner Healing, Iron Will.
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If BHVR ever were to consider putting serious work into Nemesis (which I doubt since even after all this time and even with another RE chapter dropping soon, they aren't even addressing the glaring flaws of this killer, i. e. the zombie issues and his painfully lackluster mutation tiers and add-ons), it would definitely have to be that they give him a special ability on top of his normal tentacle strike. Or better yet, multiple abilities.
There are various pretty obvious ones that I think would work well enough in DbD without even having to put in that much effort. There's the roar, which would stun survivors in place briefly, allowing Nemesis to catch up a few meters. They could balance that by giving it a lengthy cooldown akin to Doctor's static blast. He could dash, just charging in a straight line at an increased movement speed (Billy default chainsaw speed perhaps) until he either tackles a survivor, runs into a wall, or the player manually cancels the charge. Dropped pallets or breakable walls would be destroyed by this. This would both give him another line of attack as well as a way to traverse the map more quickly or catch up over long distances in chases. Mutation tier 3 could increase his movement speed or tentacle reach further and allow him to infect zombies with the parasite upon hitting them with the tentacle (rather than killing them, which serves no purpose once in tier 3), which in turn increases their movement speed and attack range, maybe even enabling them to briefly hold survivors in place. Tier 3 could also apply to any other secondary abilities, such as reducing the roar cooldown and increasing the dash speed. Grappling hook-esque stuff where he would have a secondary tentacle ability that allows him to hurl himself towards objects or throw survivors around would also be great, but that's something that would require a lot more work than I think BHVR would ever be willing or able to put in, not least given that even Wesker whose entire ability is sort of like that has its limitations.
Being infected should definitely carry more ill effects for survivors (Hindered, Mangled, Oblivious, etc.), and anyway, I think there should be some impactful mechanic tied to vaccinations. One idea would be that if the survivors use all vaccinations, a crate spawns in the map that Nemesis can go to and retrieve a rocket launcher from. Or rather, since survivors would be able to deny this ability simply by leaving 1 vaccination unused, always spawn that crate once all generators are finished, and however many vaccinations survivors used determines how many rockets it has. I don't think it would even be difficult or ridiculous to have it in the game and balance it within the gameplay. For one thing it would already be limited by the fact that it's only available in the endgame, and only contains as many rockets as survivors used vaccinations. And then just like in RE3, there could be multiple aspects that make it possible to play around, such as the target laser that shows the area of impact, the relatively slow projectile speed, the time it takes Nemesis to ready a shot, as well as the lengthy cooldown after he shoots before he can shoot again or otherwise attack. Make it an insta-down on direct hits, and injure within a certain radius of impact, also destroying pallets and walls within that area.
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Yeah, leaving aside more ambitious reworks of his entire kit and concentrating on stuff that is actually something BHVR realistically would do, the glaring issues are the zombies and his add-ons.
Zombie AI and pathing issues have to be resolved, at least the most egregious ones. There are various spots where zombies just get stuck and areas they cannot enter or leave. If those cannot be resolved, at the very least implement the band-aid fix that zombies that don't move for a certain amount of time automatically die and respawn instantly. An even better solution would be to make it possible for the Nemesis player to be able to remotely kill zombies by looking at their aura from afar and using the special ability key. From there, the zombies would either respawn at a random hook as always, or you could even make it possible for the Nemesis player to look at a gen aura and direct the zombie(s) to respawn at the hook closest to that gen. This would not only allow the player to basically solve all zombie pathing issues themselves, but would even make it so that the zombies are much more consistently valuable in harassing players on gens, and an actually somewhat proactive "ability" of the player. AI issues on the other hand are probably more difficult to solve, those are instances where zombies for some reason ignore a player right next to them, which definitely shouldn't happen. One band-aid fix for those issues could be to have the AI direct the zombies toward unfinished generators whenever they are not alerted to anyone. But like, you want the zombies to literally walk right up next to the gen.
Most of his add-ons are indeed pretty useless. That said, with improvements for the zombies, various add-ons would also get more valuable since they obviously make zombies more of a threat. Still, too many of his add-ons aren't nearly impactful enough, and it's lame that the majority of them pertain zombies to begin with, because zombies are a passive part of his kit and nothing the player can really influence or even notice. Add-ons that improve his tentacle strike ability would be great, affecting stuff like the attack's wind-up and cooldown time and reach. Add-ons that make the infection more impactful would also be good, such as Hindered, Blindness, Obliviousness, Mangled, Hemorrhage, the usual stuff.
Finally, tier 3 mutation should indeed be more substantial of a power-up. There are various things they could do, ranging from really simple ones like making him 4.8m/s movespeed or allowing his tentacle to instantly infect and injure, to more ambitious ones like giving him the ability to infect zombies with the parasite when hitting them with the tentacle, which would visually alter them and increase their movement speed and attack range, or maybe on top of infecting/injuring survivors, they would even hold them in place for a moment in this form.
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The easiest and best way to balance Nurse in my opinion would be to reduce the reach of her third blink. Meaning her lunge range. Copy paste:
- Reduce her post-blink lunge range. With her current lunge, she merely has to blink within the approximate vicinity of a survivor, there's a fairly big margin for error since she can make up for inaccurate blinks or survivor jukes with her lunge. With a reduced lunge range, she still has all the advantages innate to her ability, only players have to be more precise with her blinks to actually hit survivors, and well-timed survivor jukes can actually work out more often. The amount by which her post-blink lunge range should be reduced comes down to experimenting, maybe the -50% of White Nit Comb is a little too much, maybe -33% is better.
- Make her blink hits not count as basic hits. Nurse already has insane snowball potential, there's no reason why she should also be able to capitalize upon the Exposed status effect from perks like Starstruck, Haunted Ground, NOED, Make Your Choice and so on. Blight's rush hits don't count as basics, and he's still a great killer. You can instead add an Exposed effect to the underpowered Matchbox add-on, where any survivor within Xm of the Nurse after she performs a maximum range blink will suffer from the Exposed status effect for a couple of seconds.
Range add-ons are thankfully getting fixed next patch to not also increase blink speed, but they are still a bit much because they substantially improve her already amazing ability, with no downside. The downside should be that they increase blink fatigue and/or recharge time by as much as they increase range, percentage-wise. Although with the reduced lunge range these add-ons could already be much less problematic, so perhaps the increased fatigue/recharge time should only apply after blinks that actually went beyond standard range, and only by as much as they did.
The only concern with the lunge change for the devs could be that it makes her even less accessible for new players. But those accessibility issues have always been there, new players would always have to invest time to get the hang of Nurse anyway, and besides, they've shipped multiple add-ons that make Nurse play more like a normal killer, by increasing her default movement speed - maybe Nurse should have those add-ons in her info box or something, as a suggestion for new players. These add-ons by the way also kind of alleviate concerns people have about Nurse then not being able to make use of basic attack-dependent perks at all, insofar that there's still builds in which she can use them.
Oh yeah, and I also agree that stunning Nurse should be much more impactful, since it's a high risk and low reliability maneuver that currently also has a low reward. It should remove her blink tokens and they should only start recharging once the stun animation has fully played out.
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It's funny how many people argue "you could take a survivor hostage with this, it had to be changed this way!"... That's not at all a valid reason for the perk to have been butchered like this, they could have simply made it so that the person on hook can still attempt to unhook themselves/still gets skill checks they can intentionally miss. Seems to me that's more so camping killers concerned about themselves than concerned about survivors being grieved by other survivors.
I doubt we'll see the perk become a staple, and in its original version it definitely would have. I hope that with the "standout" survivor perk of the chapter falling into obscurity (or at least mediocrity), BHVR will at some point consider buffing it to at least 2 activations per stage (or better yet of course, address camping at a base game level, like they should have done years ago already).
It really is quite ridiculous that they finally brought something that could have actually reliably combatted camping, but then not only was it in the form of a licensed perk (so a band-aid solution, locked behind a paywall), but they went ahead and nerfed it substantially after teasing us with what could have very well "solved" camping to an extent.
And any non-camping killer should have been looking forward to it, I know I sure was, because in its original form, the perk was effective enough that you'd most likely have multiple copies of it in many of your matches, which if you didn't camp basically meant wasted survivor perk slots.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151817#Comment_3151817
Making him 115% would make him an absolute zoning monster so idk about that. It’d be less fun to play as, as well. I’d rather they just restore quickscope, at least partially.
I definitely prefer him being 115% over quickscope in terms of playing against him, but I agree that 110% + quickscope is much more fun to play as. I just don't think it will ever come back, and while Slinger is still fairly strong (good players are still able to win consistently with him, and even in tournaments he does surprisingly well still), I don't think he'd be too strong at 115%. Maybe some add-ons would have to be toned down to compensate though, such as the reload speed ones, which could be quite oppressive then.
But him being 115% whenever his gun is not loaded seems like a perfectly sensible middle-ground either way, I think that's the very least they could ship without any issue.
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Yeah, IMO Slinger could just be 115% all the time, so this is the least they could do for him to compensate for the quickscope nerf.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149008#Comment_3149008
I mean yeah an entire build around this is more for the memes. But a single perk slot is not that big of a price. Kinda like Noed. Adrenaline is great cause it helps you when your team gets the gens done and if they all die and the killer gets the hatch
Thing is that no amount of team perks that will save your team if they run face first into a starstruck nurse.
People who use the the standert meta have to write that off as a loss no matter what. The sole survivor player still has a chance.
And it's true that some maps have exit gates to close but likewise some maps are very easy to pull this off.
Lerys and the game are almost guaranteed for example if you do the 20% before first red light trick.
And remember everytime you get through the gate instead of dying it's 2 steps closer to higher mmr where you get better teammates and you can play the more team orriented playstyles without pulling your hair out
I'm speaking ofcourse with how the game sees a win (dead: lose, hatch: draw, gate: win) if you only feel that you win with 3 survivors escaping that's fine but then you can't really complain about hard games cause you made the victory condition harder for yourself for no real reason other then pride
I wish it were the case that higher MMR means finding good teammates even just semi-regularly, but in my experience (pretty sure I'm well beyond the cap) that just isn't the case, not anymore anyway. I still get good players sometimes, and still noticably more often than in the rank-based MM past, depends on the time of day/night too, and I'm not getting complete beginners either, MMR does something, but there's so many downright bad randoms among them that I think they've all but butchered MMR. (At least for survivors, I do still fairly consistently get high-hour, competent killers.) This is especially true in duo queue (and I'm pretty sure my duos are well above the cap themselves, they are players I also 4-SWF with and we escape most of the time if we do). To actually consistently be able to compete you need to queue up with at least 3 competent players, and even then the 1 random can still be a huge liability.
Either way, for me personally, in solo queue, I consider just getting all gens done already a success, because that usually means it wasn't a non-round like it so often can be with randoms. Any gate escapes from there are wins in my book. I personally do not consider getting a lone hatch or gate escape without all gens having been finished a success. I actually rather reveal myself to the killer and engage in a final chase than hide from and avoid them looking for hatch or playing for the gate if they close hatch. I mean, it depends, if they were an obnoxiously boring player that camped and tunnelled and slugged the clearly subpar randoms at 4-5 gens, I sometimes rather deny them any fun and hide for a cheesy escape, but even then, if they don't slug for the 4k or stand on the hatch refusing to close it, they aren't being that obnoxiously boring either, so I'll still usually prioritize my fun in going for a chase.
It's true that some rounds are such a disaster it in all likeliness really wouldn't have mattered what perks you brought, you would not have been able to carry the terrible randoms to much of any success. But in those non-rounds I personally usually rather go for a chase and die than drag things out by playing for the sole escape. And anyway, I don't know prior to a match whether it will be such an affair (even if it in solo queue admittedly quite often can be), so I rather bring perks that can contribute to the possibility at least that I can help carry us over the finish line. But I'll also admit that I have used sole escape perks and entire loadouts before, mostly however with the purpose to spite the awful random survivors, in a way of communicating to them "yeah you suck too much, I already know you will all die", because if something can get to me, it's the cognitive dissonance experience of not being able to comprehend how it is possible to be that bad and stupid at the game, yet seeing it happen time and time again with randoms. So for me, those loadouts are more of an emotional lashing-out and insult to randoms if I had a bad streak of games, than they are something I use because I care about escaping, lol.
But if you do consider those sole escapes success and feel good about them (and there's nothing inherently wrong with that in my book, at least not if you aren't intentionally sabotaging the rounds you're in refusing to touch gens and whatnot), I definitely agree with you that it is worthwhile in solo queue to bring something like Left Behind + key or even Wake Up! + Sole Survivor as a parachute to fall back on.
@Edilibs said:
zarr your contradicting yourself because DS is an insurance perk that you "may" not get value out of but is still good to have because you just never know.
I've had some games where i didnt have ds but the killer doesnt know and didnt respect DS at all but could have lost for it so its just one of those things.
You cant tell me you didnt at one point you didnt run Balanced Landing only to go to the back then super strong Dead Hard bc there were very little to no Balanced Landing areas on a map well this is the same thing.
Got Left Behind with a key ok your intentions are known, this player or i want to escape more than anything for whatever reason but it doesn't make it "useless" or means the player is selfish, it means they are tired of dying bc of teams or having bad teams in general.
It's not a contradiction, the difference between something like DS and Left Behind is that while both have activation conditions that may not arise in a given round, DS' condition is one that can at all arise in a round that can still be won, whereas Left Behind's strictly only does in a round that is already lost. DS can contribute to winning rounds, Left Behind cannot, choosing the latter over the former can be part of the reason you lose itself.
But again, this does depend on what you personally consider a win. If you think your lone hatch/cheesed gate escape is a win, or at least equally as much of a win as however many other survivors escaping, then using sole escape perks and entire loadouts is indeed worthwhile. And I can totally understand someone just being tired of dying and wanting to escape, and them just feeling emotionally better if they do escape even if it was in the context of an overall "lost" round. I'm not trying to shame anyone or tell anyone not to do so, it's a game, and anyway, no matter what I or anyone says people will do what they do anyway, not least because such words aren't reaching far out there at all.
It's just that personally, I do not consider those escapes victories, nor do I feel particularly good about them. I want to finish all gens at all costs, meaning I rather spend all perk slots on stuff that can help contribute to that happening, and I mostly feel good about my matches if I had good chases, so much so that I even rather die seeking out a final chase and actively avoid hatch, than actively avoiding the killer to seek out hatch. That's just me though, as killer I also rather go for any chase I can get even if I know it will lose me kills I could otherwise easily have gotten, because I care about chase gameplay more than kills in and of themselves, yet I know much more people would rather get kills at any cost, even if it doesn't involve a lot of engaging gameplay (or there wouldn't be so many campers).
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While I agree that against high level survivor teams most killers regularly need some degree of camping and tunnelling in order to be able to compete and succeed, and that camping and tunnelling nerfs therefore have to go in hand with buffs to other aspects of killer gameplay/individual buffs for a bunch of killers, in the majority of pub matches you really don't need to camp or tunnel to be able to succeed. Depends on the map, the killer you are playing and your loadout of course, but yeah, I usually even go out of my way not to camp or tunnel and still average more than 2 kills, and I'm pretty certain I'm well beyond the MMR cap on all my killers. I in fact often find it mind-numbingly boring to employ camping and tunnelling in pubs because it makes winning too easy much of the time. I don't frequently watch many of the killer streamers I used to anymore because most of them camp and tunnel and win much too dominantly much too often, only seldomly even being challenged. Just not entertaining. Had hoped MMR would change something about this, but the cap is just too low, the matchmaker too lax.
Anyway, I care more about chasing survivors than I do about killing them, that's actually rewarding gameplay to me, so most of the time I'll just commit to a chase on anyone I find until I down them, no matter what. Not saying other people should also consider whether they don't want to shift priorities to care more about chasing than killing, but either way, in pubs, as a competent-and-above killer player, you can absolutely go for 10+ hooks pretty consistently without camping or tunnelling. You'll definitely get less kills and lose more games than you would otherwise, but you'll still be winning comfortably more than half the time. Good killers that play hard win 90+% of their pub matches, and who really needs that?
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@Sonzaishinai said:
People really miscomprehend what kind of perks Sole Survivor or Left Behind are
It's a insurance perk, just like OTR btw
Saying sole survivor and left behind are useless cause they don't give vallue unless your team dies is the same as saying OTR is useless cause it doesn't give vallue unless the killer tunnels
If you have OTR and the killer doesn't tunnel you then you might not have gottem vallue out of the perk but you're still in a good position cause you weren't tunneled
If you have sole survivor and your team isn't dying then you are still in a good position cause your team isn't dying.
But just like tunneling, your teammates dying is largely outside of your control
If your somebody who is confident enough to play with a perk slot less then these kind of perks are a great way to still turn a bad match in your favor
The flaw in your reasoning here is that you are spending perk slots on things that do not help you with winning the match, which may well become part of the reason why you'll end up in lost matches to begin with that you might not have had had you been using perks that actually do something before the match is lost. Off The Record's activation condition is not a lost round, so it's not comparable to Sole Survivor, it contributes value that can help winning a match. Forgoing perks that can contribute to succeeding in a round in favour of perks that only have any value once a round is already lost is clearly itself lowering your chances of succeeding.
But yeah, this does depend on your idea of what constitutes a "win" or "success". If you think a hatch or cheesy gate escape as the only survivor is still a win, and something you consider more or at least equally worthwhile to play for as multiple escapes, spending perk slots on that can be valuable for you. I'll also say that sure, if one is a good enough player confident that one will be contributing enough to rounds without needing those perk slots, and that rounds will mostly only fall apart if other survivors are not contributing and at that in a way no perks one could possibly use could help with or make up for, it is sensible to use slots on perks like this (but again only if one cares about escaping alone).
I really think just going Left Behind + key or Wake Up! (with stuff like Adrenaline or Resilience, maybe Spine Chill) is better than spending an entire build on this though. They reliably enable you to still escape should you be left alive alone, but they also still allow you to spend perk slots on stuff to be used in trying to not end up the sole survivor. I will also point out that there is counterplay for the killer to these things. As always, they can slug for the 4k. But even if they can't find you, if they find the hatch first, they can simply stand on it and refuse to close it until they spot you. Plus if the gates are close enough to one another or if the killer has an ability that allows them guard both gates, you are most likely not escaping through gates anyway.
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It's not a killer perk now, it's not bad, but it's definitely not nearly as good anymore as it had been, and might well not be good enough anymore to see frequent use. And yes, given that its only real effective use case is against hard camping which should long have gotten rebalanced at a base game level to begin with and that it now won't be nearly as impactful anymore without multiple survivors running it and coordinating their use of it, the nerf is super disappointing.
In its original form, a singular survivor using the perk could single-handedly counter a hard-camping killer with it, since they could prolong each hook stage by 6 (more realistically around 4-5) * 30 = (120-)180 seconds. Those extra 2-3 minutes are too much for a killer to keep camping, they would have to commit to a chase on someone or at least try to prevent the survivor from being able to get close enough to activate Reassurance, which opens up opportunities for an unhook. And while the perk was super good against camping if even only one of the three survivors had it, that automatically meant multiple people having it was not very impactful, so SWFs would not benefit much at all from being able to stack it, while solo survivors could have a reliable tool against hard camping even without needing other survivors to happen to have it, or needing much of any coordination.
In its nerfed form, a singular survivor can only prolong a stage (or worse still, only once per hook?) for a mere 30 seconds, which is regularly just not enough for a killer to be forced to stop camping. The survivor that activates Reassurance has to spend time going to the hook and leaving it again, which can already all but nullify any time bonus that survivor will have gotten out of those 30 seconds. Not only that, but if they run away again, now in order to actually be able to attempt to unhook they would have to run to the hook again soon thereafter, spending even more time. Often that means the Reassurance survivor wants to stick around the hook and is absolutely not getting any gen time out of it. Worse still, in non-SWF groups, your fellow survivors have no clue that you are going to use Reassurance, they may very well be heading to the hook themselves, or already sitting around it, and in any case, there are a lot of scenarios where randoms just won't actually use those 30 seconds to do gens, whereas at 120+ seconds, even the most dense randoms should stop crouching around the hook at some point, even just out of pure boredom (or you know, because the killer actually has to leave and allow an unhook). And even if multiple survivors happened to have brought the perk, timing it such that one survivor after the next activates it perfectly while the others always stay on gens is just something that will basically never happen. Unless you are in an SWF of course, who now benefit from the perk much more than solos, the opposite of what should be happening. It's Kinship 2.0.
Again, I don't think the perk is bad now, but it remains to be seen how well solos will actually be able to make use of it, and whether it will have enough impact to use it at all there. I don't really think it will become a staple, whereas in its original form it most likely would have, and it would have been a (band-aid) fix for hard camping in any match it's in, while also even being a deterrent for campers in general just due to the mere threat of it potentially being in a match. Not only that, any non-camping killer player would even benefit from Reassurance being a staple, because that would mean in most matches, multiple survivors would be spending perk slots on something that does next to nothing for them.
My suggestion: Increase it to two possible activations per stage per survivor, and three activations maximum per stage. So any survivor using it can activate it up to two times per hook stage, but only up to a combined maximum of three activations per stage (e. g. 3 survivors use it once each, or one survivor uses it twice and a second survivor once). I think 1 extra minute is the absolute sweet spot for the perk to be impactful enough on its own, while the third activation means it's not a "wasted" perk if multiple people run it.
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...It's 8 seconds, it will mean nothing the vast majority of the time if the killer tunnels, they won't somehow lose a survivor that was right in front of them just because they move a sliver faster than them for a couple of seconds. 117% is 4.68m/s, that means for 8 seconds, survivors can move 0.08m/s faster than a standard killer, which amounts to a grand total distance of - drum roll - 0.64m. Not even 1 meter, you aren't even getting out of lunge range with this.
And it will mean even less than nothing if the killer doesn't tunnel.
It never stops to boggle my noggle what people make of all the ######### perks in this game. "Utterly insane"? Nobody that's not clueless has ever seriously used Guardian and they won't then either. It's still not even scratching the surface of being remotely meta-viable. Increase its effects to 30 seconds and you may have a perk people sometimes will consider actually using and sometimes may get some actual value out of. Increase it to 60s and you may actually have a meta-viable perk, and even then it's literally only useful if the killer wants to hard tunnel, something that should be getting rebalanced at a base game level to begin with.
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Bloodweb Costs
I personally have been on the side of actually substantially benefitting from the recent teachable system rework - I have all perks on every character now and I would most likely not have been able to achieve that for another few months without these changes. Or maybe not ever because there's some characters I was just not gonna really spend points on, and there's new characters being released every so often of course.
But I know that for a variety of different scenarios, that teachable rework wasn't actually a substantial grind reduction, such as when you're not looking to get all perks on most characters. So more grind changes are welcome, even though I personally won't really notice or care much.
Camping & Tunneling
They again say camping but then there aren't actually any changes to camping. Hook grabs still there, killers being able to use their ability right next to hook still there. In fact, they nerfed Reassurance, the one band-aid this update brought that actually did something about camping.
I am glad the unhook Endurance was increased to 10 seconds, that will be much more impactful than the 5, which most of the time just didn't do anything against tunnelling. I think it would be better to make this a 10-second unhook invincibility duration though, such that getting hit within this time frame does not consume Off The Record. Collision should probably also be disabled for these 10 seconds then.
Their choice of words here reveals a fundamental issue in the approach to tunnelling: "We hope you’ll find these improvements to be much more effective in discouraging the Killer from chasing the same Survivor immediately after they’re unhooked." - Rather than discouraging the killer from tunnelling, it would be possible to make it much more difficult to tunnel altogether. Endurance only means the killer will have to hit the survivor once more, which quite often isn't much of a hurdle at all. Old Decisive Strike was such a strong anti-tunnelling tool because the lengthy stun timer allowed the survivor to make so much distance that they could lose the killer altogether rather than immediately be in a chase again. I for one enjoy chases, I don't mind getting tunnelled as long as I get an actual chance for a fair chase, but a major issue with tunnelling is that other survivors in one's matches can still die within seconds and get tunnelled out within the first 1-2 minutes of a match. Reverting the DS stun timer change would be one thing that's beneficial in combating tunnelling, and you could also make it so that unhooked survivors have no blood, scratchmarks or cries of pain for 30 or so seconds, as well as increase the Haste effect to that same duration.
Mettle of Man
I actually sort of enjoyed the new Mettle, but it was undoubtedly a nerf to an already weak perk, so I don't mind it being reverted.
Post PTB Changes
Wesker changes seem promising. Collision as well as being powerless against vaulting survivors were the major concerns I had in PTB.
Will have to see him in action, but with these changes, I honestly can't see how he isn't comfortably A tier, and probably upper A. He's like Huntress on steroids.
Reassurance nerf is unfortunate. Preventing abuse was as easy as making the perk not stop the skill checks such that survivors can still intentionally miss them. At one activation per hook stage, the perk is not bad, but it has definitely lost its immense impact potential against camping, in its original form it may well have "solved" camping in various situations. At the very least, I think this should be increased to two activations per stage.
Awakened Awareness nerf is also unfortunate, if I was looking forward to this perk at all it was mostly for the Lethal Pursuer synergy which is now cancelled. Simply adjust Nurse already.
Low Profile is still a very bad perk. It's surprising that they didn't include you being the only healthy survivor as an additional activation instance, but even then the perk would not be good. That said, at least now it's not laughably terrible.
Better Than New is still terrible. While the duration removal is a good change, now that it won't affect repair speed it doesn't even matter anymore. Either reduce it to 8% and include repair speed again, or to 10% and include vaulting speed. As well as sabo and gate opening speed, I mean why not.
Glad they appear to have left Superior Anatomy and Hyperfocus/Stake Out alone.
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@dspaceman20 said:
I don't really see this as a problem. It seems fine. Every survivor won't get use out of it and it has pretty substantial downsides fo counter it. It probably also won't be good if the killer camps
Made me giggle because of your Deliverance avatar.
But yeah, this is not a problem at all. Deliverance is not a perk that sees ubiquitous use, not even frequent use. It can only be good if you're getting camped and nobody is able to save you, or if you're in a full SWF and can tell your fellow players that they don't have to waste time coming to unhook you. And both of those scenarios of course require that survivor having been able to activate their Deli in the first place, which can be prevented by the killer as well as other survivors.
I don't think it could ever really be meta because if 4 players have Deli, at most 3 of them could be using it in a given game, and in order for that to be possible, survivors have to be hooked and unhooked in a perfect sequence that will basically never happen: first survivor hooked gets no Deli of course, then someone unhooks them, activating their Deli; now the next survivor that has to be hooked is the one that unhooked the first survivor or that first survivor again, otherwise another survivor would be unable to activate Deli; the hooked survivor uses Deli, meaning nobody can unhook them and activate their Deli; the next survivor that has to be hooked is either the one that just used Deli or the first survivor that was hooked, but if it's the first survivor, they can't have been hooked the second time prior to this, otherwise they'll obviously die and someone else won't be able to activate their Deli; the survivor that unhooks this survivor has to be one of the two that haven't been hooked yet; once they unhook and activate their Deli, the next survivor that is getting hooked can't be the last one that hasn't activated their Deli yet, and if it is the one that just activated their Deli, the last one obviously cannot activate their Deli until someone else is hooked again for them to unhook, which also again of course can't be a survivor that is dead on hook... Long story short: Put 4 Delis in a match and the survivors will be lucky if they can use 2 of them, and that's with coordination. And whether they actually get good value out of those Deli uses is another question still, because without complete coordination other survivors might still waste time trying to unhook, or there might well be other scenarios where survivors simply are around to unhook you to begin with so using Deli makes no sense.
And on top of that, survivors that use Deli tend to play very defensively until they manage to get their Deli activated, which can benefit the killer due to those survivors not pressuring gens aggressively, taking hits, and so on. They will also all be running to unhook, regularly wasting time since obviously only 1 survivor can get it.
Plus as @KolbyKolbyKolby pointed out, there are still scenarios that can see the unhooked survivor go down through Endurance within those 10 seconds. Not to mention that it's also possible the would-be-rescuer trying to get their Deli will just be prevented from unhooking in the first place, due to getting downed or grabbed or being injured too far away from the hook to still make it. Deli is still far from guaranteed. And not seldomly, people going for reckless save attempts to get their Deli up can if anything also play into the killer's hands.
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I won't really comment on the main point of the thread (I personally don't care whether Nurse holds back perk design, I believe BHVR's perk design team holds back perk design more than anything else, although in this instance it seems pretty obvious Nurse was the main reason for the perk nerf, so regardless of whether the same is true in general, in this instance it appears to be true - and Nurse has always been a blatantly busted killer, making her blink hits not count as basic hits is the absolute least they could do, and that would already have made the Awakened Awareness + Starstruck combo a non-issue on her)... but your math is not really capturing the situation adequately at all.
3/3.5s fatigue/2.7s cooldown + 3s pickup = 24/26/22.8m a Survivor starting literally right beside the Killer can run away before the pickup even finishes. As in, out of the 20m.
First of all, Awakened Awareness activates as soon as the pickup starts, so you can already see survivors within those 3 seconds. And then, running away as soon as Nurse gets a down is not only a bad idea because you will be regularly revealing yourself to her doing so and she can just slug, but there's tons of scenarios where running away is not even possible, let alone in a straight line, due to the area or structure of the map you're in. Furthermore, bolting it across the map every single time the killer gets a down is a huge time sink, you will be giving them tons of value regardless - and you don't even know whether they have AA, so you'd literally have to do this against everyone. And finally, the aura also lingered if you dropped the survivor, and it was lengthened by Lethal Pursuer; Nurse could pick someone up and drop them instantly, and see everyone that was within 20m of her position at the time of the pickup for another 4 seconds.
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More often due to the bug, and often enough because I play Oni myself.
I don't think this particular bug should be made into a feature because you'll basically have Fury for the rest of the match once you are two injuries into it, but Oni IMO absolutely should be buffed to have an innately better early game. While it is really easily possible to get early M1s in most pub matches and while it's something I actually enjoy having to do, the fact that Oni absolutely has to get a vanilla M1 to be able to access his ability at all can just be way too limiting to his potential to compete. Either give him something that makes the M1 easier to get, or make it so that passive Fury buildup can actually give you access to the ability, rather than stopping at 99.9%. The rate of passive buildup should also be increased, such that you get Fury even without a hit at latest 2-3 minutes into a match. To balance this against the fact that you would continually benefit from the passive buildup even after getting injures, the passive charge rate should scale with the amount of Orbs on the map, the more Orbs the slower the passive rate of course.
Those changes to the passive buildup would also help avoid the awkward fact that often after getting your first hit, you don't want to down that survivor even if you get a free opportunity to do so, because that will leave you without enough Orbs to fill your Fury meter. Instead, you want to follow them around collecting Orbs. That's just a weird aspect of Oni, not least because a survivor might want to intentionally let themselves get downed in order not to give him access to Fury. So yeah, with a faster passive buildup that is also able to fully fill the meter, this situation would basically never occur anymore.
For the alternative of making Oni M1s easier, there could be various things. Maybe a custom pallet break interaction where he will use his kanabo, with a reduced interaction time (basically give him Brutal Strength basekit). Maybe using M2 could do something even if you are not collecting Orbs, such as hide Oni's red stain for the entire duration of holding it. I don't see any issue with this, especially because holding M2 reduces Oni's movement speed. Would help with some mindgames though.
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@blue4zion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146903#Comment_3146903
"Pushed by camping killers"
That's a stretch, considering I'm speaking from personal experience as survivor.
Anyways, the outcome of survivor matches against a camper is much better if you don't throw yourselves at the camper, at least not in a proper group if you really have to. Afterwards, play it safer. Don't be cocky at loops, use what resources you can since they already wasted so much time. "Just do gens" doesn't work with bad teammates was prob a better way to put it.
That is where the problem lies imo, 80% of the time without swf, those situations go to ######### due to terrible teammates or poor timing by said teammates.
Tournaments was silly to bring up, as kills/hook states= points. Ofc they want to push it to get as much possible, not to mention if they get off they are guaranteed harder kills. Looking for a straight 4k isint the immediate objective, its to kill as much as possible with little hassle.
that 3% of matches aside, camping grants minimal points, not fun in the slightest, and removing grabs will not end it.
It'll just help those reckless survivors more than anything.
Tournaments are not silly to bring up, your way of trying to deflect the game reality they showcase is silly. Killers in tournaments absolutely play for kills more than anything else, just like most of any killer. A 4k rewards the most points, getting a 4k with the least amount of gens done rewards the most points while giving the fewest to the opponents. And yet still, camping is what top killers most of the time do. And they have great success doing so, consistently killing even at that level.
Indeed, camping is even more devastating against uncoordinated groups, who are the overwhelming majority in the game's actual public game mode. And indeed, camping is not usually fun for most players involved, regularly yields little gameplay and BP. So why exactly do you seem to not want to nerf camping such that it isn't as viable anymore and not as common an occurrence at every level of play? Removing hook grabs would go a long way to make it less effective to camp, because hook grabs are about the most impactful way to counter someone contesting a camp.
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@blue4zion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146819#Comment_3146819
They don't incentivize hard camping, if the rest of the team just does gens, killer is not gonna have a good game.
If anything, its there so survivors don't make reckless saves like that. It's almost always a lose situation when the killer plays it right. Doesn't matter if thats a tunnel or trade. This would just help those trying to escape, like old ds.
Yeah, right, "just do gens lmao". I won't go and point out all the ways in which camping absolutely is the most effective killing strategy in the game most of the time, I will just point to tournament play in which camping is a bread and butter play as well to easily demonstrate this fact. They are facing the most coordinated and experienced teams in the world on voice comms, composed of some of the best players, and they still employ camping, to great effect. "Just do gens" is a flawed sentiment pushed mostly by camping killers that want to keep their easy wins, because against most random groups of survivors it really is incredibly easy to win with camping.
And hook grabs absolutely play into how strong camping is, also blatant to see why.
Reckless saves are still reckless without hook grabs in the game, because at best you give the killer a free down, at worst they can down you before you are able to unhook. And they can also still simply tunnel off hook, they're right there. It would still absolutely be dicey and risky to go for saves in the killer's face.
As I've said, nerfs to camping (and tunnelling) would absolutely have to come alongside buffs to other killer gameplay aspects, because the game as it is definitely isn't balanced for the idea of consistently getting 9 hooks for your first kill against equal opponents, not for most killer characters and maps anyway.
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There is no official win condition other than "escaping" for survivors (although the updated official page does put more focus on the "team" aspect of it), so yes, you can play for your sole escape and consider it a win. The question only becomes why you would want to do that. In general, you can consider whatever a win you personally play for. You could personally be having the most rewarding time if you manage to find all 5 totems in game, like some easter egg hunt. If you feel like you've "won" if you did that and had fun, that's just as worthwhile (or worthless) as escaping and then considering yourself a "winner".
Escaping does not give you anything in and of itself, and even if you care about your invisible matchmaking rating (for which you have no real reason, as it does not give you anything either), you actually have to play for gate escapes to increase your MMR, which is something you will much more reliably achieve by choosing your loadout and playing in ways that actually aim to get all gens done, which includes pressuring objectives, rescuing teammates, taking risks, taking aggro/chases, teamplay in general. If it's about bloodpoints, there are more effective ways to maximize your average BP gain. Taking hits and going for unhooks and bold plays usually yields much more BP than hiding, playing passively and getting a hatch escape.
Personally I mostly care about chase interactions in the game, so as a survivor I would rather die having one last chase, than try and hide and avoid the killer in order to get a sneaky hatch escape. I get nothing from the latter, why would I go out of my way to actively avoid gameplay? Why am I playing this game at all, just for the artificial objective of an "escape" message on my post-game screen? I for one play it for the gameplay it provides, and I enjoy chase gameplay more than stealth gameplay. Doesn't mean I don't generally play to succeed, but to me only two or more survivors escaping is success. I don't generally play for hatch or otherwise cheesing out sole escapes, let alone adjust my build and playstyle to it beforehand, I go into survivor matches trying to play in ways that allow for all gens to be done and multiple players to escape through gates, and I consider it a success most of all if I help with that by leading lengthy chases.
That said, there are of course reasons why people would want to play for escapes more than anything else. Maybe they just find that the most fun, and whatever leads to their personal escape is worthwhile to them because they just find they feel the best about the game if they end up escaping. Or maybe they care about it more than anything else because they want the killer player to feel like they've "lost" against them. Or maybe they just enjoy the thrill of hiding and escaping against a killer looking to find and prevent them from doing so. Or maybe they enjoy thinking of the game as a survival horror where just like in real life they would want to avoid the killer at all costs. As I've said, any personal reason is valid, and nobody can prevent you from playing within the rules of the game to whatever end you personally deem worthwhile. Your fellow survivors will resent you for it, but if you yourself do not care about that or at least not as much as you care about your escape, so what, it's a game. And I will say that in solo matches, not seldomly it really is the case that try as you might, you just simply cannot carry your fellow survivors into having an actual shot at getting all gens done and escaping. So after having a lot of matches like that, it is understandable a player might simply want to escape more often, and prepare in advance for the likely case that the round will fall apart.
...So, here's a few tips for the sole survival playstyle.
Left Behind + a key is probably the most reliable way to get an escape that requires the least amount of investment, since you still have 3 perk slots that can support whatever playstyle, tactic and strategy you want, and the key can still have add-ons that do other things for you too.
If you are using Left Behind without a key, consider instead using Clairvoyance or a map - both perfectly able to help you find hatch as well (Clairvoyance even has double the range of Left Behind), and as opposed to Left Behind they actually have other uses too.
If you want gate escapes strictly, the combo is Wake Up!, Sole Survivor, Spine Chill and Adrenaline. Adrenaline is just here to make sure that if the killer closes the hatch, you either get to be healthy which makes hiding easier and can allow you to take a hit while opening the gate, or you get off the ground if you were slugged. Spine Chill helps you identify when the killer is at the gate you want to open, particularly against stealth killers of course, but even the visual indicator of the terror radius can really help you with understanding the killer's movements and whether they are actually moving to or away from your gate. And on top of that its 6% additional gate opening speed can come in clutch if the killer is coming at you. Wake Up! and Sole Survivor are obviously the actual gate opening speed perks here though - together, they combine for a 75% increase in your gate opening speed, cutting it down to 11.4 seconds.
An additional tip is that you can open the gate up to a progress of 25% before the first red light turns on, meaning you can put in some progress without the killer noticing, hide, and finish the rest when the killer leaves again. That will leave you with only having to spend 8.5 seconds on the rest. If your game is in English, you can use the following as visual guidance:
The first light will turn on roughly when the progress bar is in the middle of the letter "A", so in order to be safe, you want to stop when the progress bar is between "C" and "A".
Another tip: Spine Chill lights up at 36 meters. It takes a killer 7.8s to traverse those 36m at standard 4.6m/s movement speed. So if you can put in 3-4 seconds of gate progress before Spine Chill lights up (progress bar at about "E" or "S" of "ESCAPE"), you will be able to open the gate by just sticking to it, you won't have to risk hiding (especially if you can tank a hit too, and also considering that the killer is not usually able to travel in a perfectly straight line to your gate). Also depends on whether the killer has an ability that allows them to traverse the map more quickly though, of course.
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Consider this post a bump, I'm just echoing what others have said in here and what I have said multiple times in the past as well: Hook grabs are a completely ridiculous mechanic and it's pretty mindboggling they are still in the game after all these years. They do nothing but incentivize hardcamping, and reward it ridiculously much. They are vulnerable to latency and therefore a random luck mechanic. They lead to awkward and silly "interactions" of dancing around the hook with survivors scared to commit to an unhook and killers refusing to hit them. And a third survivor can't even unhook until the grab animation has fully played out, meaning the killer not only gets the first free down but can still deny the unhook even if another survivor is there, or at the very least still down that other survivor as well.
The direction for a long time already should have been to nerf camping (and tunnelling off hook) and instead buff killers in other respects that encourage and yield more engaging gameplay, such as chases. They however don't even touch the most ridiculous camping "tactics", like these grabs or Bubba facecamping. Perhaps hook grabs are a mechanic the devs like because they make the hook a more "dangerous" place, they might consider it a horror-type power dynamic thing that adds to that quality of the gameplay experience... but it just objectively makes for terrible gameplay and only exacerbates core issues the game already has (some of the most uninteractive strats being the most effective, latency having a big effect on the game). Besides, hooks are still plenty dangerous without it, the killer can secure at the very least a 1-for-1 trade in the majority of these instances, so the rescuer is already throwing their life at them, and this is all the more true now that the hit cooldown has been reduced and Dead Hard nerfed such that it can't be actuated without moving. Save The Best For Last being in play can mean the killer melts through both you, any other survivor there to support, and the unhooked survivor, within seconds. Various killer abilities are also incredibly lethal around hooks. Hook grabs are just stacking crap on top of crap.
I for one think camping and tunnelling have their place in the game, so while it is possible to remove them as viable or at all available strats entirely, I don't think they should be. But they should absolutely be nerfed such that they aren't as effective and oppressive anymore, instead other aspects of killer gameplay should be getting buffed that encourage more healthy and engaging interaction, which most of all is chaseplay, play around pressuring and defending generators and juggling different survivors across the entire map. Camping and tunnelling are also particularly devastating for non-coordinated groups (so solos and duos most of all), which is another reason why they should be rebalanced, they exacerbate the core balancing issue of the gap between solo and SWF as well.
At least we are getting a band-aid for camping in the form of Reassurance soon, which will help make hook grabs less problematic of a mechanic as well, since it will make hardcamping less effective in general. But yeah, it's just that, a band-aid, these things should not be worked around with perks, but actually balanced.
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Perk just went from "useless" to "useless but huh that's interesting" in my mind. That that is actually counted as a health state change can have other implications. Gearhead, Remember Me and Reactive Healing could benefit, all pretty trashy perks too.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146049#Comment_3146049
I DON’T CARE ABOUT NURSE.
I asked for C and D tier killer winstreak, with the current matchmaking algorithm and you can’t provide anything. Even the best streamers can’t do it, meanwhile SWF is still as easy as ever.
"But good SWF are rare", so are good Nurses. And she is getting nerfed. The ranged addons are the beginning, I am positive she will end up like Freddy.
BHVR doesn’t want to fix matchmaking because they know some killers are way above others, so the softcap is there to prevent good survivors to face only comp Nurses and Blights.
And I don’t want to make this game competitive either, I just wanted to show that if you really want to win, you can. The survivors still have the upper hand, they decide the outcome of the match against the huge majority of killers.
Just because I personally am not aware of any such recent streaks of lower-tier killers, doesn't mean it's now impossible to have them. There could well be some I'm simply not aware of, or even if there aren't that is not evidence that it's impossible, for that you'd have to have a range of players attempting such streaks and consistently failing to achieve them. And even then the idea of a "streak" is not really important, that's just wins in a row - if they still win the vast majority of their matches (which most good killers do), it's not like that is less of a balance argument (and it again still isn't really one altogether because of matchmaking).
I don't care whether you don't care about Nurse. You keep making false statements. You take a voice comm 4-SWF composed of some of the most experienced and best players in the game facing off against mediocre-at-best pub randoms, and say "everyone can win if they just want to, game survivor-sided". I will refrain from repeating myself pointing out again the various ways in which this is flawed.
I do think C and D tier killers need buffs, and as do solos. Nurse and Blight and some add-ons need nerfs, as do SWFs. Some maps need adjustments, in either direction. Matchmaking needs to be improved (higher rating cap or cap removal, more strict especially at the high end).
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146002#Comment_3146002
I could find any of these winstreak with the current skill based matchmaking. Only 2 years old videos.
Also I asked for C and D tier killers, not A and B.
I personally am not aware of recent huge 4-kill streaks with other killers, although I'm sure they're there. I showed you someone getting 90+% 4ks perkless with all killers and you doubt people can get streaks anymore that they used to be able to in the past, where the game was objectively more difficult for killer than it is now? And either way, there's Nurse streaks spanning hundreds of matches in MMR, that's the equivalent for 4-SWFs with comms.
MMR has a value cap, plus the actual matchmaking algorithm for it is weird and way too lax anyway. I have looked at the recent matches of Hens' pub team, even after more than 100 wins they are still getting absolute potatoes regularly, with most killers they face being mediocre at best. The same is true for the average survivors top MMR killers get.
If you want C and D tier killer streaks, I will say that sure, some of the weaker killers definitely deserve buffs, but not only does that not mean that good players don't also win the vast majority of their pub matches with those killers pretty comfortably (again, just watch streams, there's an entire library of recorded evidence of this, but I could also give you screenshots from me going for perkless/add-onless Legion 4ks prior to the Legion buff (but still in MMR times)), but then I would go ahead and ask you to show me winning streaks of solo or even duo or trio survivors. And I don't mean escape streaks where they cheese out hatch escapes, but actual winning streaks where at least 3 survivors escape through gates. Can't find any? Game clearly killer-sided unless there is a 4-SWF with comms, which is not even 5% of all matches. Game confirmed 95% killer-sided!
To be perfectly honest, I knew from the start that you would not engage in an actual discussion on any of this, I mostly just replied here because I wanted to comment on the inevitable post about the Hens SWF streak. Which, granted, is ridiculous, and it's not 72, they are at above 200 now. But as are killer streaks, of which there are some spanning 300+ games. Matchmaking is just bonkers. Although I will repeat that I for one would welcome SWF nerfs (loadout restrictions).
Something I would really like for anyone going for streaks to do is to record the playtime of their opponents whenever possible. Even just that alone I bet will be a sure-fire indicator that the real issue is that they're just beating up on what are essentially noobs compared to them.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145401#Comment_3145401
What killer huge winstreak ? You mean the Nurse one ? Or Blight ?
Do you have any huge winstreak with an average killer to show me ? Let’s say Sasako or Doctor for exemple ?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145451#Comment_3145451
The current state of the game is Nurse soon nerfed, the best slowdowns nerfed, basekit BT, a new antitunnel perk OTR, a new anticamp perk soon. And dead hard still strong. The game is even more survivor sided now.
I don't know why we would look at any killer but the strongest ones if we're comparing it to the strongest survivor setup we can get (coordinated 4-SWF with voice comms), not least because any player can simply play the strongest killers 100% of the time, as opposed to being able to 4-SWF with voice comms all the time (you need 3 other players ready and willing to play and use voice comms for that). But sure:
Dowsey - Twins - 199 4ks in a row
Fungoose - Plague - 200+ 4ks in a row
CardClasher - Oni - 120+ 4ks in a row
That just as a small selection off of memory. And mind you, these are 4k streaks, not merely "winning" streaks of 3/4ks; as opposed to what has been falsely claimed in this thread, killer streaks are regularly much more ridiculous than survivor ones because you will never find an actual 4-escape streak that could even hope to compare to the 4-kill streaks.
Again, pub games are not a good measure for base balance because they almost never meet the competitive basic premise of all players in them being roughly equally skilled and experienced, or even just trying equally hard to win. Fact is that huge winstreaks like this are completely ridiculous and fly in the face of any sensible balancing (or matchmaking). They'd be essentially impossible in most of any other competitive game. Who cares about "balance" or let alone how "survivor-sided" the game supposedly is, when good players win 90+% of their killer matches day in and day out and have for years? I can give you countless streams of players that dominate the vast majority of their killer matches comfortably, but just for one recent example I stumbled over: https://www.twitch.tv/kaiizoru/videos - Just a random streamer among many that easily win most of their killer matches; I'm linking him because he has recently been doing perkless 4ks rotating through most killers. I skipped through 58 of those matches, he 4k'd 49 times, getting 2 and 3ks in the other 9 (and 2 1ks), averaging 3.7 kills overall.
If you actually cared about balance, you would look at tournaments which are a controlled environment where the battlefield is much more even in terms of levels of skill, experience and trying to win, and realize that the results there are actually killer-leaning (for basically all killers), even more so now after the recent changes. That again doesn't mean the game is actually killer-sided at that level, we'd have to go into nuances of the different killers, maps and loadouts (both roles have restrictions there), but it does go to show that the game balance couldn't be further away from what people regularly claim it is. And again, that's with teams of 4 survivor players that know each other, practice and compete together regularly, communicate with voice comms and have practiced call-outs and high levels of coordination. Something you will see maybe once every 1000 matches in pubs. The killer equivalent of that, e. g. a Nurse or Blight tryharding? You'll see that once every 10 games, if you're lucky (otherwise you will see it a handful of times within those 10 games).
Also want to point out that tryhard 4-SWFs with voice comms are not only infinitely more rare than tryhard killers, but that's not even base game balance: the basic balance premise for this game is 4 players that do not know each other or let alone have external means of communication. That's also the average match experience. Solos and duos combine for roughly 80% of the survivor player pool last we got stats on this (with solo being 50-60% alone).
Just because I feel like it, I will also comment on your reply to CaulDrohn:
Using the speculation that Nurse will be nerfed in the future to describe the current state of the game is hilarious. There is no basekit BT, but 5 seconds of Endurance after getting unhooked, which will get you nowhere in the vast majority of scenarios. We lost a better anti-tunnelling perk (DS) for OTR, and they also deactivate in the endgame now. OTR is not as good an anti-tunnelling tool because the distance you make from one hit as opposed to the distance you got from DS regularly does not get you anywhere if you've been hit off hook, and that is all the more true depending on the killer and their perks (STBFL means you can go down again in seconds, as do hatchets, blinks, phases, rushes, bottles, chains, chainsaws, spears, throwing knives, babies, kanabos and bloody vomit). Plus DS could even allow you to lose the killer altogether. Dead Hard is objectively weaker now, it only has very specific timings in which it is still good, and survivors also have to time those right, and there is even killer counterplay to this (e. g. instead of swinging through a pallet when you know the survivor has DH and would be getting a guaranteed hit, delay your swing because they will almost certainly DH). DH for distance on the other hand did only very rarely have real counterplay. Call Of Brine, Eruption, Overcharge, Corrupt, Pain Resonance, Gift Of Pain, Deadlock, No Way Out, Pentimento, Dead Man's Switch - you've got plenty of hugely impactful slowdown perks still in the game.
Again, I would never say something as simplistic as "game killer-sided", but the recent changes have objectively benefitted killer gameplay much more, it's pretty absurd to claim the opposite. I do think the game actually leans toward killer for the basic game premise (meaning 4 random survivors, i. e. no coordination or communication), and is surprisingly balanced at the top top end of tournament play, but I also know that there are problems, such as SWF with comms, certain maps, certain perks and items when they are stacked in SWF. There's also killers that need individual buffs. Likewise, there's problems on the other side of the balancing coin, most of all camping and tunnelling, the lack of coordination in solos, Nurse, Blight, some add-ons and a few maps.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145371#Comment_3145371
Please, you don’t need 8k to know how to loop and not be 3gen.
Also I don’t lose much so I don’t know what you are talking about when you say this would make me feel better about my losses ? The purpose of this post is to show that you can get huge winstreak as survivor if you play decent.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145366#Comment_3145366
Are you implying a single survivor should be able to carry 3 others players and win in a 1vs4 format ?
You are using this streak as evidence, which is flawed in itself already, but now you want to dismiss it? Fact of the matter is that these players have 4k+ hours in the game each, and tons of tournament experience. If you claim anybody could do this, I'm afraid this is not evidence for such a claim.
Again, there is more than "playing decent" going on here. 4 tournament-level players with thousands upon thousands of hours in the game teaming up and using voice comms, call-outs, coordinated loadouts and strats, trying hard to win every time. Dan is literally one of the best competitive survivor players in the world and has been up there for a while. Get real.
And seems you forgot, but the "purpose" of your post was to claim that this streak shows the game to be survivor-sided, which is a completely flawed conclusion. It's as easily countered as asking: So do the various 100+ 4k killer streaks make the game killer-sided?
Please tackle your bias and mind the spoiler I gave about tournament play. Killers compete perfectly well at that level (more than well in fact, again, averaging more than 2 kills per match). Does that mean the game balance is totally fine, all killers and maps and perks and items and add-ons a-ok? Of course not. But any balance discussion would have to be far more nuanced than "game is killer/survivor-sided!", and certainly it would have to be based on something other than... some pub players getting demolished.
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All you need is actually trying to win.
...Yeah, and 4 players with 4-8k hours in the game each, as well as years of competitive tournament experience, one of them literally a player on the best team. And voice comms with practiced call-outs. And coordinated, stacked builds. Also a matchmaking that gives you opponents nowhere near your level (of skill, experience and "sweat") the vast majority of the time.
There are also killer 4k streaks spanning hundreds of matches, and always have been.
In pubs, good 4-SWFs will win the vast majority of their matches, and as do good killers. It's just that the latter is infinitely more common, since for the former it takes 4 such players actually coming together and deciding to use voice comms and trying hard to win. For the killer equivalent, it just takes one such player to decide to play killer and trying hard to win. To take random pub matches as a base game balance argument is asinine, because for base game balance arguments you need equally skilled competitors. (Little spoiler alert: In tournaments where players like these actually face equals, the game averages more than 2 kills per match, with 4ks being completely commonplace.)
There are plenty balance issues left, for both roles, but that is always much more nuanced than the "X/Y-sided!!!!" people want to make it out to be. Whatever helps you feel better about your losses I guess? You are not fooling anyone but yourself though, not least since anyone can just watch one of countless streamers and see for themselves that it's entirely possible to win one's killer matches all day every day, and has been for years. If you're struggling, seek to improve your skill at playing the game rather than blaming game balance, it genuinely helps, there is more evidence for this than you could watch in a lifetime.
The useful takeaway from streaks like this is that MMR is still completely inadequate and should be made much more strict. (And personally I also want SWF nerfs, namely loadout restrictions. Also Nurse nerfs.)
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Prove Thyself is not as good as people make it out to be, particularly when you can't coordinate with fellow survivors to pressure certain important gens together. But it's also not bad of course, and alongside Blast Mine you will at least more often get other survivors on your gens. My tip for your build if you want to keep Prove however would be to replace Blast Mine with Bond and then Circle with Sprint Burst. Bond can partly do both of those perks' jobs, since you can join other survivors on their gens (or lead them to yours), and also get heals from them/heal them. And then Bond obviously has a lot of utility beyond that. Sprint Burst is just the best Exhaustion perk now, and it also sort of replaces Blast Mine's utility in that you can make a lot of distance away from gens if the killer decides to kick them.
I think the most solid build particularly if you're playing solo and as such have no team loadout coordination is Borrowed Time, Off The Record, Sprint Burst + 1. OTR in case you get tunnelled, which is crucial to have tools against, but you can also intentionally take aggro after being unhooked and use the extra hit that way. BT in case your fellow survivors don't have OTR, as well as for endgame saves. Sprint Burst because again, it's the best Exhaustion perk - you can use it to pressure gens and hooks more safely even in deadzones, you can use it to increase the starting distance of chases, you can use it in chases if you 99% it or are capable of recovering Exhaustion mid-chase, you can use it to traverse the map and position for rescue plays (e. g. pallet and flashlight saves), and crucially, you can use it instantly after getting unhooked to make sure you retain your Endurance for the potentially ensuing chase, as well as to make actual use of the 5 seconds of base Endurance (relevant in the endgame for this build, since OTR doesn't work there of course).
The final perk can be much of anything, but the best candidates usually are: Kindred, Bond, Circle Of Healing, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, Deliverance, Decisive Strike, Prove Thyself, and in the future, Reassurance. Hope, Resilience and Vigil are also good, and ultimately you can use whatever you personally like in this slot. Will mention that bringing a med-kit with this is usually the best idea.
Here's a few different surv builds I personally like:
Dead Hard, Desperate Measures, Resilience, Self-Care - Measures and Resilience increase not only your self-healing speed, but also your unhooking speed, which alongside Dead Hard can allow you to go for bold unhooks where you tank a hit, unhook, and then tank another hit via DH. You can potentially replace Self-Care with Borrowed Time here, and bring a med-kit instead.
Sprint Burst, Vigil, Self-Aware, Hope - With Vigil, you want to stand and walk in chases as much as possible so as to recover Exhaustion and get your SB back. Self-Aware helps with this by making walking mid-chase possible more often, and in the endgame, as does Hope.
Kindred, Bond, Windows Of Opportunity, Open-Handed - Pretty self-explanatory.
Lithe, Quick & Quiet, Dance With Me, Iron Will/Lightweight; Head On, Quick & Quiet, Decisive Strike, Parental Guidance; Circle Of Healing, Shadow Step, Overcome, Bite The Bullet; Overcome, Lucky Break, Inner Healing, Quick & Quiet - A variety of stealth-juke builds.
Dead Hard, Breakout, Resilience, Self-Care/Circle/Bond + sabobox - Sabobuild. Resilience makes sabo even faster, DH can save you after the sabo, particularly if they have STBFL.
Dead Hard, Saboteur, Resilience, Flashbang - Another one, this time relying on the right timing of dropping your flashbang at a hook and starting the sabo such that the killer is forced to look up and can't hit you while you finish the sabo.
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Rounds can fall apart for a thousand different reasons, and regularly it's due to hundreds of things adding up (often being hundreds of seconds survivors spend doing useless stuff instead of repairing gens, but that's just the most obvious one). If one were to seriously analyze those rounds of yours, I'm confident we'd find a lot of stuff that went wrong that was equally if not much more detrimental to the round than you self-healing with Self-Care. And since you use Botany Knowledge with it, that is almost certainly true.
The thing with Self-Care always has been that it's actually time-efficient: another survivor healing you takes 16 seconds, but since both you and that survivor are occupied with that heal, the total invested roundtime is 32 seconds. That's the same time investment SC required for a heal, and it did so reliably at any time and any place, not requiring a second survivor, not being as vulnerable to getting temporarily interrupted, and regularly being even more time-efficient due to those facts (another survivor healing you means they are leaving whatever they were doing to join you at some place to heal and then have to go back, which is an extra time investment not needed if you can heal yourself). Plus grouping up with other survivors can enable snowball scenarios, spreading out and healing by oneself is usually a better play for that reason as well, not least because multiple survivors being interrupted simultaneously also means more time being wasted in the process.
But there is of course an important caveat: the time you spend healing actually has to be a worthwhile investment. And that's where most people go wrong with the perk - they are not good enough to actually use those health states to good effect, or they don't know when it is beneficial to heal and when it is best to stay injured in order to do other things. Just for one simplified example, if a survivor spends 32 seconds healing themselves instead of repairing a generator, but then despite being healthy still dies in 20 seconds in their next chase, them healing was most likely not time well spent. And there are countless different scenarios where this can be true, such as survivors healing when the killer will one-shot them anyway, or healing when instead they could be finishing a crucial generator that otherwise will be getting contested and perhaps never finished, or instead of pressuring an unhook and the hooked survivor transitions or dies, or they spend a minute looking for a "safe spot" to heal every time, or they throw away health states taking hits for no reason, and so on, rounds falling apart in large part due to it. So basically, SC was only ever really worth it in the hands of competent survivors that knew when to heal and when not to, and on which a health state actually regularly has a substantial impact on the match.
Now that Self-Care takes ~45 seconds to heal oneself with, the basic time efficiency argument doesn't work out anymore. I still don't think Self-Care is a "killer perk" now, far from, but the amount of situations in which healing yourself with it will be worth it have been notably reduced, and that's even if you are a survivor that can make real good use of those health states. So much so that I think using Circle Of Healing or simply a Med-Kit is just the better choice. Or even Bond to more reliably go for altruistic heals. That said, if you have Botany with SC, the self-healing time is cut down to 30 seconds, again putting it within the time-efficient range. So if you are a reasonably smart and competent survivor that knows when to heal and how to wield health states to good effect, SC + Botany is still a completely sensible loadout choice.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141215#Comment_3141215
Hang on a second
Wasn't that the exact same argument for keeping j-flicks? And moonrushes? And every other Blight exploit under the sun?
"X exploit is fine because it's actually weaker than bump logic" is such a funny argument to me
It's not even about them being exploits to me, the argument is ridiculous altogether because as long as those mechanics exist(ed), you literally have bump logic plus them, they can be used simultaneously, so if the argument is that bump logic is already plenty strong, the obvious conclusion is that those mechanics are over the top.
While it is possible to hug something on your last rush and thereby combine "100% pure" bump logic rushes with hug tech, the idea that bump logic can do everything on its own just fine is simply false altogether. Hug tech enables Blight to do stuff he could only dream of without it, and that includes being able to get around tiles and making hits happen that are otherwise basically categorically impossible or at least otherwise leave much more room for survivors to make plays, as well as being able to get hits while spending less rushes, which is obviously highly impactful because you will be able to rush again earlier.
But here's just one common example of hug tech doing something that bump logic cannot nearly as well:
Red is Biight, blue is survivor. With hug tech, we simply bump once and then hug all the way around shack, flicking around the second corner. We spend 2 rush tokens here and we get to the survivor as quickly and reliably as possible, flying around the corner.
Bumping our way around this same scenario means that first, we need objects around shack to bump off of to begin with (corner bumps on shack have weird collision and this changes depending on shacks as well, plus at most we could be bumping off of the first corner, and would then also need to spend quite some time in the bump window to edge past it). Not only does that mean we are spending 3 rush tokens at least here, but the further away from shack our bump points will be, the more time we are spending getting around it, i. e. the more distance the survivor will be able to make from their current position. We won't get there as quickly, we will be spending more rushes, the survivor will make more distance such that we might need to spend even more rushes or just simply cannot get to them anymore, and on top of that we are also way more predictable, because the survivor knows that in order to get to them around back, we will need to utilize bump points, so they can prepare for that much better in advance as well as tell in advance that we are actually coming around back rather than cutting through shack for example, whereas with hug tech we could be coming flying and flicking around the corner already. And of course, we can also combine the two to achieve maximum potential:
Here we utilize hugging to get around shack in one rush, and then bump to reacquire our target and prevent a preemptive dodge.
Here we bump first, then hug around shack to be able to flick around windowside corner.
And here hugging enables us to quickly intercept a vault, as well as to hug back inside if no vault happens, either by bumping again windowside and hugging back along the side wall, continuing the hug around windowside to bump somewhere palletside, or even reversing the original hug when we hear no vault notification.
Hug tech opens up options and opportunities that don't exist without it, and that's not even talking about tiles where there just isn't a way around without eating collision, and external bump points too far away to catch a survivor out. That's the case on a lot of filler pallet tiles, like MacMillan rock pallets or Autohaven junk ones for just two common examples. You can't bump logic your away around those without regularly giving the survivor a pretty secure pallet drop or vault, whereas with hug tech you can be getting around the tile before they are even able to react. Gyms can be a nightmare to bump around as well, since you will be spending a lot of rushes just turning corners and will have to do so in quick succession; bump logic regularly dictates that on tiles like that you should catch up to the survivor with W first such that you can get them by bouncing only once around one corner. With hug tech on the other hand you can be getting around the entire gym in one rush.
Any Blight main arguing that someone that utilizes hug tech is a weaker Blight than someone that only uses linear bump plays is either being disingenuous with ulterior motives, or just has a pretty limited understanding of Blight. Yeah there are situations where players go for hugs and flicks that can allow survivors to spin or otherwise dodge them in which a pure bump logic Blight could have gotten a more or less guaranteed hit, but the better the Blight player, the more they will be aware of when to utilize which, and when to combine them for the best results. Besides, the mere possibility of utilizing hugs means survivors often find themselves in a dilemma of needing to play around both. So you preemptively DH or dodge anticipating a hug into flick, but the Blight simply bumps and you look stupid - or you hold W expecting the Blight to bump and needing to spend every millisecond you get making distance such that you can potentially get away from the next rush, but the Blight hugs the wall and comes around the corner swinging. Without hug tech being a thing, it's possible to anticipate much better what the Blight even can do, let alone potentially react in time to it.
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As @VikingDragonXii pointed out, this is not specific to Nurse, network latency is to the advantage of every killer. The phenomenon you are describing is caused by the fact that on their screen, the Nurse player has already ended the blink and swung at you, whereas on your screen, the blink has yet to play out. This of course due to latency. Range add-ons exacerbate this because they increase blink speed.
In and of itself, this cannot be fixed because it's simply a function of latency, you will always see Nurse come out of blink somewhat later than the Nurse player themselves. That said, the general killer latency advantage can definitely be fixed, and that would also mean Nurses with bad connections don't get as ridiculous hits anymore. A solution specific to this issue and a perhaps adequate nerf for Nurse would be to highlight the spot she will be blinking to as soon as the blink starts, such that survivors at least get an earlier warning and have a second to try and dodge, rather than merely a few hundred milliseconds, some of which nullified by latency.
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If hug tech would only look flashy and not actually be a ridiculously potent tool in Blight's chase game, you wouldn't see top Blights use it all the time and wreck teams doing so. Blight even outperforms Nurse in tournaments, since players are more consistent with him, averaging 3.X kills. And that's with Alchemist Ring, Adrenaline Vial and C33 banned. Blight is not a balanced killer, removing hug tech would go a long way to make him more challenging to play and transparent to play against, because you would actually need bump logic much more often, and sometimes you would just have to force down a pallet vanilla, since bump logic alone actually does not get you some hits around tiles that hug tech enables you to land consistently. And hug techs are definitely not easy to play around at all, especially once speed add-ons come into play. Often it's a 50/50 at best, and that's if you have a reasonably safe pallet and fast reactions, otherwise it's more like a guaranteed hit.
An alternative would be making Blight 4.4m/s, as that would more so justify being able to use his ability on basically every single tile like hug tech enables one to. And his add-ons have to be rebalanced anyway of course.
Personally I don't want them to remove hug tech simply because it increases the mechanical skill ceiling as well as the option tree and indeed flashiness of the killer, but from a balance perspective I realize that it is something that could be done to make him much less of a problem. His kit is already clearly overtuned without it, and I'm not sure I would like the alternative of 4.4m/s movespeed either. Although I suppose there could also be other ways to rebalance him without needing to touch hug techs, such as making it so that his rush tokens recharge much slower, albeit perhaps with the trade-off that players can use rush tokens at any time, without needing to wait until they're all recharged again.
Ultimately I would not be all that worried about Blight. He's clearly a killer BHVR had intended to be and continually have kept overtuned, since he has such an integral role within their original lore. That they haven't even touched any of his busted add-ons and instead even buffed Vial is only one of various blatant signs of how much they want Blight to be ridiculously strong. So if they do end up touching his collision logic (which they very well might not, or at least not for another few years, BHVR is slow like that), don't be surprised if they make some sort of intentional sliding part of it. And it's a little ridiculous to complain anyway given that hug tech has been a thing for years and years now, people have had more than their fun with it.
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36m range means you have a 72m circle around you where if the killer is in it, the perk lights up. If you actually let go of gens and hide whenever this happens you will be wasting literal minutes every match. The reason Spine Chill used to be so good is that not only could you tell the killer is around your position, but more importantly, you could also tell whether they are actually headed for you, due to them looking into your direction for extended periods of time.
Spine Chill is not completely awful, you still get the warning that a stealth killer is within 36m of you in some direction, so if it remains active for a couple of seconds and you can deduce that they're not chasing someone else or whatever, you can still preemptively leave or hide thanks to it. But it is definitely nowhere close to as useful as it had been, where not only did it basically give you confirmation itself that a killer is headed for you (which is useful against terror radius killers too by the way), but it also had some utility in chase, due to the vault speed increase as well as being able to tell you whether a Nurse, Spirit, Pyramid Head or Huntress is looking at you, or whether a stealth killer actually left your chase.
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Mixing and matching was basically the only reason I ever bought cosmetics. I for one won't buy any without fist being able to make sure they match, so I hope this isn't an intended change by BHVR in the way of "buy to try" rather than "try & buy".
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Yeah, holding Shift is what you want to do.
It is also beneficial to pair Iron Will with this, not only because that way you can sometimes remain 99-healed even when the killer is nearby, but also because other survivors are more likely to leave you in peace if they can't hear you crying. Although of course, Iron Will has been nerfed, so it's not as good anymore. It's not "dead" either, if you use it on a survivor that is already on the quieter side (such as Ace) it's really still alright, but yeah, maybe not worth the slot.
I would also recommend trying Desperate Measures over Botany Knowledge if you go for a Self-Care + Resilience build. Measures and Resilience can combine for pretty speedy unhooks, combine that with Dead Hard and the new 5s base unhook Endurance and you can go for some bold unhooks.
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- Oni - I love M1 chase gameplay, and Oni combines that with bouts of the ridiculously fun and impactful Blood Fury, which also has a fair bit of room for mechanical prowess. I'm also a fan of his design overall, visual and audio and lore.
- Wraith - Again, big fan of M1 chase gameplay, and Wraith makes that easy to enjoy, with an ability that basically only enhances normal chaseplay, as well as a low downtime and an easy time finding survivors who cannot usually hide preemptively. What I like particularly about Wraith is the ability to employ all kinds of different build and strats, because not only is his ability pretty easy to adapt into different approaches, but his add-on set offers quite the variety as well.
- Tied for Demogorgon and Billy - These are the more mechanically rewarding killers I like to play, where making crazy curves or shreds work just feels pretty amazing. They do not shy away from M1s either, so it's a nice balance between traditional chaseplay and unique chase interactions. They also have good add-ons. I usually prefer playing Demo because I've admittedly grown quite rusty on Billy, I haven't played him all that much since the nerfs, just feels a tad clunky, and new maps always have unique collision that I don't really wanna spend the time learning.
- Huntress - Just still the most fun ranged killer in the game. She also requires learning collisions, but at least it's not as punishing or frustrating throwing a hatchet into something as it is to bump with the chainsaw.
- Tied between Nemesis and Doctor - These are my cruise control killers that I can play at any time and do well with without thinking much about the game. I'd have to also mention Legion and Plague along with these, although Nemesis and Doctor's abilities are still much more engaging to use.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134479#Comment_3134479
instead we should nerf both SWF and Nurse. We should also buff solo queue as well as various lower-tier killers. Some maps need rebalancing. Restricting pre-made groups to only be able to use any perk/item/add-on at most 1 time would go a long way to make SWF much less of a balance issue.
So, you believe that we should balance the game around top level players. I agree that we should buff solo queue though which would be healthier for the game. But SWF need to be dealt with.
Also, the game i posted was not about how well the nurse played or even the outcome of the match. It was simply showing what a coordinated team can do. The game was not balanced around people doing stuff like that, especially since half the survivor perks just give them information about what their team is doing.
Yeah but again, that Nurse player was just simply not playing up to the level of the survivor team at all in that match, so it shouldn't really be used to argue about balance. Top-level Nurse players can actually compete against this type of coordinated team.
It's not balancing strictly for top-level players - while those are way more common on the killer side in pubs (since again for a top-level survivor side you need 4 top-level survivors coming together with voice comms and all that, which just almost never happens), you still won't be meeting a top-level killer player all that frequently either, even if you are at the MMR cap and whatnot. But in pubs, an even just competent Nurse and 4-SWF will win 90+% of their matches if they try to. That's still a notable balance issue (as well as a matchmaking issue).
I believe that the game is actually slightly killer-sided in its native game mode (and heavier killer-sided depending on the killer character), which is this: all 4 survivor players do not know each other, as such have no coordination on their builds and strategies, and of course no external communication. So yeah, solo queue buffs have been needed for a long time in my opinion. And it's particularly camping and tunnelling that are disruptive in solo scenarios, so those in my mind are what should be rebalanced most of all. A competent killer player can play any killer even perkless and still win the majority of their matches against pub randos if they camp and tunnel.
SWF does obviously change a lot about this, and the game has blatantly not been balanced with SWF (+ voice comms) in mind. That doesn't mean SWF completely destroys balance, but in pubs it definitely more often than not upsets the balance, and it really highlights the power differences between the different killer characters, with some of them definitely being inadquate in that scenario. One blatant aspect of the game not being balanced with SWF in mind are loadouts, which is partly your original point in this thread, but it goes beyond SWF simply having perks "basekit": their coordination of loadouts and their ways of using them allows them to create completely busted combinations that just clearly aren't healthy - 4 BNP toolboxes with stacked Streetwise, 4 OTR + Deliverance, dedicated Booners, 4 Styptics/Syringes, 4 For The People with 4 Soul Guard, multiple Adrenalines and Kinships and Unbreakables and perfectly coordinating the use of them, Power Struggle + Flip-Flop on everyone and always going down under pallets intentionally, Open-Handed on one player with Bonds and 2-3 Kindreds on everyone else, stacked Sprint Bursts + Vigils, and so on. Restricting SWF loadouts would prevent this type of ridiculous abuse, as well as encourage more perk diversity and create more freedom in the perk designing process to begin with since then one won't have to worry about the prospect of those perks being stacked and abused in a coordinated way.
I think those loadout restrictions would actually already be enough to even the playing field for most killers against SWFs, and tournaments support this too, but some killers would still need buffs. Some killers need some nerfs, most of all Nurse, but also Blight, and various add-ons are definitely overtuned. Various maps need adjustments, I'd say around 40% of maps lean more toward survivor, 20% killer, and the rest are pretty okay.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3133800#Comment_3133800
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3133802#Comment_3133802
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3133825#Comment_3133825
This,
This is another argument i see, and the reality is this. There are 2 possible statements you can make:
- We SHOULD balance the game around the top level players
- We SHOULD NOT balance the game around top level players, and should instead balance around the AVERAGE player.
If you believe 1 is true, then you must agree that at top level Survivors are far too powerful, especially when playing SWF.
If you believe 2 is true, then you must agree that nurse is fine, because she often has the lowest kill rate in the game.
You cannot believe 1 is true, and that nurse should not be nerfed.
You cannot believe 2 is true, and that nurse should be nerfed.
If you do, then you are biased.
Either this is ok or it's not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s
If it IS ok, then we probably should buff nurse. If it is not ok, then we talk about nerfing nurse after we nerf this.
This isn't the reality, it's flawed on multiple levels.
I don't know who that Nurse player was, and Hens did not share that information on the video. I assure you that an actual comp-level Nurse will not be getting 2 hooks on Dead Dawg (or any map). It's pretty silly to use that. Ask Hens how they'd fare again FallenArt, Volga, Zaka, Knightlight. Let alone with range add-ons, a Mori, and any perks of their choosing. 4ks galore. Maybe this player had a particularly bad match, or they were just not an actually good comp player, maybe merely someone that participated sometime(s). If you watch actual competitions, Nurses 4k all the time even against teams way better than Hens' pub team.
In fact, a whole bunch of killer characters are able to 4k in tournaments regularly, again against teams way better than this team. Survivors at that level are in fact not "far too powerful", average kills are above 2, with 4ks being completely common. Yeah there are loadout restrictions in place, but not only are there restrictions for killer loadouts too, but it's instantly a completely different argument to go from "top survivors OP" to "top survivors with all these perks and items stacked a bit overtuned". And not even that is entirely true: We know from "everything allowed" tournaments that happened even before the recent survivor nerfs that Nurse and Blight are perfectly able to compete and even outperform survivors at the top level, again averaging above 2 kills, with 4ks being completely feasible.
There is also a very important distinction to make that changes the entire takeaway from tournament-level DbD: The killer side is 1 player, just like they are when they play public matches, whereas the survivor side is a team of 4 players, practicing together, communicating via voice chat using efficient call out systems, preparing and coordinating builds and strategies, having team cohesion and natural team cooperation (things like having assigned roles, knowing who does what when, intuitively knowing how to play certain scenarios, all due to shared experience as a team). The survivor side benefits much, much more from the tournament setting than the killer side does, because in essence nothing changes for killers. In public matchmaking, the amount of comp-level players presenting a tournament-level killer side is bound to be far beyond the amount of comp-level players presenting a tournament-level survivor side, because for the latter, you need 4 comp-level players that have experience as a team coming together and deciding to play pubs with all the coordination and communication and such that they use in tournaments... and for the former you just need such a player deciding to play killer. Comp teams playing pubs as 4-SWF and actually trying hard to win is vanishingly rare, it basically never happens; comp players playing killer in pubs and trying hard to win happens every single day.
Granted, I was surprised that Hens' team managed to get like 190+ 3-4-escapes in a row, but it's not like the opposite is unheard of either, far from: there are multiple 4k streaks (note: not 3/4k, strictly 4k) spanning 200+ games. In public matchmaking, even now with MMR in place, you almost never meet players of that caliber, so if you are a top-level killer player or 4-SWF, you will be winning the vast majority of your matches pretty handedly. And while Hens' team is not a tournament team, they are all top-level players with thousands upon thousands of hours of playtime and tournament experience (Dan is in one of if not the best team in the world, Laser has been in the comp scene for a long time with varying success, Hens himself has been involved in the scene a lot). I do want to note that matchmaking particularly for 4-SWFs seems to be messed up. You can ask those players themselves, or take it from Dan's recent stream: they know they are getting pretty bad killers most of the time that are simply nowhere near their level, and even say they are getting notably better killers when they queue alone. I have made the same experience.
We should neither balance the game for top-level 4-SWFs nor top-level Nurses, instead we should nerf both SWF and Nurse. We should also buff solo queue as well as various lower-tier killers. Some maps need rebalancing. Restricting pre-made groups to only be able to use any perk/item/add-on at most 1 time would go a long way to make SWF much less of a balance issue.
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Blood Amber is good but not as good as people make it out either. You need a Skeleton Key for it, and even with that plus Prayer Beads you only get 22.5 seconds of aura reading, needing to spend perk slots on Built To Last and/or Streetwise if you want to get more consistent value out of it throughout a round. And then channelling the key takes around 2 seconds, time you regularly do not have in chases, not only because you can't be channelling or using it during interactions, but also because the killer can already have successfully mindgamed you before you get to see their aura. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely good, and great in certain situations on certain tiles against certain killers, but for an ultra rare item with a very rare add-on and a limited-time use, it's supposed to be impactful. And it's really the only impactful thing keys got going for themselves anymore. Seeing the aura of other survivors is not awful, but since you have to channel and use up the key for it, it's not very impactful at all. If their auras would be shown constantly like with the Wedding Ring, that would make keys much more relevant.
That said, Left Behind + Skeleton/Dull Key is something you can always throw on in solo queue because you can already expect your team to frequently get demolished, and with this combination you can often at least still play for an escape if you care about that.
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Most of the perk buffs BHVR ships and has shipped through the years have unfortunately been woefully lackluster, any of those perks seeing even just semi-frequent use are the exception. I'm still glad they sometimes touch perks since some of them do end up getting at least viable enough to seriously consider using them at all, but yeah, the vast majority of those adjustments couldn't be further from changing anything about the meta, or even the game at large.
Sole Survivor specifically is a non-starter, because perks that only have any real use if the overall match is already lost are not something anyone should want to equip. You always want to rather equip perks that at least increase your chances not to end up in that losing position in the first place. Plus it's also not like blocking aura reading is very valuable whatsoever, there aren't even aura perks most good killers use, and only few aura add-ons. Sole Survivor could literally block all aura reading on the respective survivor from the very start of the trial and it would still be far from a meta perk because that effect is just not very impactful, and this is also always a good measure for just how bad so many perks in this game are: you could literally double, triple, quadruple their effects, strip away all restrictions and conditions, and they might still not be meta-viable.
...That said, in solo queue you can expect your "team" to get demolished pretty frequently anyway, so if you care about yourself escaping more than about trying everything to actually finish gens, Sole Survivor after its "buff" can be paired with Wake Up! and Spine Chill for a pretty reliable way to get a gate escape if the killer closes the hatch. That's 11.5 seconds to open a gate (and a bit less if Spine Chill is also active), and you can also open the gate to 25% before the first light turns on, wait until the killer leaves, and then open the rest, meaning you only need another 8.5s to fully open it.
But yeah, that's basically a non-build if you care about actually playing matches rather than cheesing out sole escapes.
Let's go through the perks changed in that patch and look at some simple ways in which they could be buffed to play more of a role in the game:
Sole Survivor - Instead of only activating as the last survivor alive, its effects should scale with the following: you are healthy and everyone else is injured, dying, hooked or dead; you are injured and everyone else is dying, hooked or dead; you are dying and everyone else is hooked or dead. Laurie was not literally the sole survivor in Halloween, she was fighting for not only her own survival but also that of the two children with her. So it's not like it wouldn't be thematically appropriate for the perk to do something for the team either. And it should do way more than block the user's aura, but also increase gen repair, gate opening, healing and unhooking speeds, even vaulting and movement speeds, with all of these effects increasing depending on the situation (dead teammates granting the most %, then hooked, dying, injured). Or even enabling its user to recover from the dying state in those situations. Basically, make it a clutch perk that allows the user to turn precarious situations around for their team.
BBQ - At the very least, they should add the token system back to it, and make it so that the aura reading duration increases by 2 seconds for every token on it.
Corrupt Intervention honestly didn't need the nerf, but the caveat for the nerfed meta perks here is that BHVR's goal specifically was to make them mediocre enough such that people wouldn't want to use them regularly anymore. Well, Corrupt luckily at least is still good enough.
Coulrophobia - The problem with this perk is that survivors can most of the time effortlessly heal outside of the killer's terror radius. Make its effect apply outside of that radius instead, across the entire map, however increase healing speed by 100% within the terror radius. This would make it a serious slowdown perk against healing, while at the same time not being oppressive since survivors can try to seek out the killer and heal quickly in their vicinity - which in turn is something the killer can capitalize upon of course. The perk would be strong but interesting and promote interaction.
Dark Devotion - This perk's effect is honestly a lost cause, it's just too gimmicky. But if we are to keep it alive in that spirit, at the very least make it so that your terror radius is transferred to the Obsession for as long as they remain injured. Alternatively, remove the Obsession condition, i. e. make it so that Dark Devotion activates whenever you injure any survivor (unless another survivor already has the effect on them at that time). You could honestly even do both and the perk would still not be super strong or anything, just actually at all reliable in what it does.
Ruin - Didn't need the self-deactivation thing. Regression amount could also be 1/3rd of a charge a second.
Jolt - Should be within terror radius, and also apply a 10% regression, same as a missed skill check. Explosion forces survivors off the gen.
Knock Out - Remove the basic attack condition. The downed survivor should suffer all of the effects for as long as they are down (although perhaps not the FOV reduction and deafening).
Monstrous Shrine - The basement hooks should additionally add a 50% increase to any Scourge Hook perk effects. So if hooked on a basement hook, Pain Res would regress gens by 22.5%, Gift Of Pain would cause a 24% action speed debuff, Floods Of Rage would last for 10.5 seconds, and Shrine itself would accelerate hook progression by 30%.
Overcharge - This was overnerfed out of PTB. The regression should start at 100%, then still climbing to and remaining at 200%. I also feel like the skill check difficulty on it should be increased. Experienced survivors will hit them like 90+% of the time, I know I do. Maybe increase the skill check pointer speed.
Pop Goes The Weasel - Another meta perk they outright wanted to not see frequently anymore, but in this form it's just too bad. Make it a flat 20% (18 seconds) reduction, but make it so that it only remains active if the killer does not hit any survivor after hooking, such that they have to kick a gen before they do much of anything else if they want that Pop value.
Gift Of Pain - IMO the debuff should apply until the survivor is healed because otherwise survivors can choose to remain injured and basically dodge both of the perk's effects, but that's just my take, it's not a bad perk either way.
Thanatophobia - Keep it like it is, but make it so it also applies to vaulting action speeds.
Tinkerer - Honestly this nerf was just not needed at all. Not only was it only ever really used alongside Ruin which has gotten nerfed hard anyway, but it was the only Undetectable perk with any relevance in the meta. Just revert this nerf.
Botany Knowledge - It's worse than before... Make it a 100% increase in healing speed, but only on self-healing actions.
Calm Spirit - Hard to salvage the idea of this perk into anything remotely impactful, but one thing that would be neat is if it were to suppress the survivor noises (not entity explosion) of any interaction, so including entering and exiting a locker, vaults, unhooking, and so on. Also remove the speed reduction on the interactions, that's just silly.
Dark Sense - Make it so that you get to see the killer's aura whenever they are within 24m of you and you are on a generator. After letting go of the gen, the aura lingers for 10 seconds. Whenever a gen is finished, you still get the 10 seconds of aura read on the killer wherever they are.
Decisive Strike - Either increase the stun duration to 5 seconds again, or make it so the perk activates up to two times, so after every unhook, even if you had used it the first time already.
Déjà Vu - Make it a 10% increase.
Distortion - It should have much more impactful effects than the scratchmark suppression, such as a 10% action and movement speed increase, also applying to vaults.
Inner Focus - The killer aura should be revealed to you until the injured survivor loses chase state.
Iron Will - 100% suppression of cries of pain if you are crouching or standing still, 85% if you are crouching around or walking, 70% if you are running. Exhaustion doesn't affect it.
No One Left Behind - Should increase healing and unhooking speeds by 100%, allow yourself to recover from the dying state, also grant the Haste effect for any survivor you heal a health state of, and reveal your aura to all other survivors. It's an endgame-only perk, make it actually be able to come in clutch.
Overzealous - Either: Make its effect stack (so if you cleanse two totems, you get a 16% repair speed increase until injured, three totems for 24%, and so on, and more if there's Hex totems among them of course); Or: Make its effect apply to all actions speeds, including vaulting speeds.
Pharmacy - Should increase med-kit charge efficiency by 90%. Meaning that if you hit a couple of greats, you can get 2 heals out of the Emergency Med-Kit with it.
Saboteur - Reduce the time to sabo to 2 seconds. Also make it so that the perk only goes on cooldown if you actually complete the sabotage action.
Self-Care - I'm okay with the nerf, due to it other means of healing gain popularity. That said, it should increase the base bonus progression value for great skill checks while healing yourself. Would be a neat combo with Hyperfocus.
Spine Chill - Action speed buff should apply whenever the perk is active.
Tenacity - Might as well make that 100% suppression. Also increase the crawling speed by 100%.
These are just some quick and dirty ideas for the perks they touched in that patch, but they'd already make them much more interesting.
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Slugging for the 4K has been a thing for ages, and it doesn't have anything to do with queue times or bloodpoints, it's simply people that for some reason feel the need to kill every last survivor every time and are willing to spend 4+ minutes searching rather than risk getting a 3K + potential hatch escape. I almost never do it (pretty much only if I need it for a challenge or whatever), and not even just because I don't care that much about the last kill, but also because it's simply more exciting to enter into the race for hatch than it is to search for a survivor for minutes on end.
That said, as a survivor in this situation you obviously have the option to hide until the other survivor bleeds out. Apart from this being boring for yourself too however, there's the issue that the killer can pick up the other survivor and either carry them around or have them wiggle off, meaning they can prolong the game indefinitely. Healing the other survivor up usually serves no purpose either though, it will just result in an even longer game the conclusion of which is foregone, with the potential of you then ending up on the floor slugged for yet another 4+ minutes.
What I usually do in these situations if there's more than 1 generator left to be repaired (i. e. if a conventional escape is basically impossible) and if the slugged survivor is not already close to bleeding out, is that I simply spam a vault to let the killer know where I am in order to initiate a final chase. I don't care enough about escaping to spend minutes hiding either, I rather get one more chase out of it and call it a match. Plus if I end up holding the chase long enough for the other survivor to bleed out I still get the chance of a hatch escape.
In general I think BHVR's approach to these and various other endgame scenarios is really rather lacking. The least they could do is implement some band-aid solutions to make them less tedious and boring. For the "slugging the second-to-last survivor for the 4K" situation, they could simply implement the option for the slugged survivor to kill themselves in that spot, forcing the game into the hatch game conclusion. Of course, the hatch game itself is another endgame scenario with design issues: if the killer finds the hatch first, they can simply stand on it indefinitely and refuse to close it until they spot the survivor, because that guarantees they get that last kill. So it too would need some band-aid remedies, such as making it so the hatch closes by itself if the killer is within a certain range of it for a certain amount of time. Then the players get forced into the 1V1 gate endgame scenario, which too has its issues. For one thing, the gate spawns can mean that it is completely impossible for a survivor to open a gate. The remedy for that would obviously be having set gate spawns on the maps, or at least gate spawn algorithms that make it so they are always more toward opposite ends of the map. There are also killer abilities that can allow players to guard both gates effortlessly (e. g. Bear Traps, Victor, Vile Purge), which could be remedied too. They could also remove the gate switch light indicators in the 1V1 scenario, or at least make it so that the first light only activates halfway through the opening interaction (which could be a global change as well).
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It should remain a Hex because it's a Hag perk and because it's the most iconic Hex. But yeah, it should not disable itself, that's a completely unnecessary overnerf. The regression reduction was already more than sufficient of a nerf to push the perk out of the meta, which was BHVR's goal, but the self-deactivation just pushes the perk into a territory where people don't even wanna use it in off-meta builds. IMO they could even increase the regression amount again, to like 1/3rd of a charge a second, the perk would still not regain ubiquity.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116892#Comment_3116892
not bad a build and not a bad idea, i will give a try, ty
Cheers.
@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116874#Comment_3116874
yea no, i never complained about the speed since i never see it, but those other boon perks, being 3 of them in a game in diffrent parts of the map while u are playing let's say sadako, will make you go crazy and SWF just makes even harder
I do think that ridiculously enough, the SWF vs. solo balancing problem is at the core of the issue with Boon design, something BHVR should have tackled long ago, not introduce a new category of perks that exacerbate precisely that problem.
In a coordinated SWF, Circle is still borderline busted, and Exponential definitely at least somewhat problematic, whereas in solo groups, Circle is just about good enough to be used and the other Boon perks more so stuff you'd bring for fun, they are not worth spending slots on when compared against other perks that could be in those slots instead. What's worse is that in an SWF, the survivors can coordinate their builds and use of those builds, which elevates the Boon perks' value on multiple levels.
First off, they can have a dedicated Booner, meaning that they only have one person running any Boon perks. In a solo group, you never know if and how many people are running Boon perks, and as such it can and does happen that nobody has one because they all hope others do, or that multiple people have some and as a result they are often basically wasting perk slots, because most of the time you really don't need or benefit from having 2-4 Boons up with the same effect. They're also wasting a lot of time, with multiple people now searching for and blessing totems. In an SWF, not only do you not have that, but you can even have other people tell the Booner where they saw a totem. And you can also agree not to cleanse totems, something that in solo can make it more difficult to find totems, take away what would otherwise would be valuable Boon spots, or even take away all options to set up Boons altogether.
SWF build coordination also means all survivors can bring Botany Knowledge to heal in 14 seconds within Circle, or others in 7. Or med-kits to heal even faster in Circle, making mid-chase heals feasible. Or Soul Guards with their Exponential. Bite The Bullets with their Circle + Shadow Step. Simply put, all the perk synergies there exist with Boons can be optimally set up in SWF without needing to bring the Boons yourself.
As a solo survivor, you don't even know what Boons are active on a totem before getting into its range, another thing widening the solo vs. SWF gap on their value. You could be running across the map wanting to heal at a Boon, only to find out it's Dark Theory. You could be running into a Boon area mid-chase hoping it's Shadow Step, but it's just Circle.
And then there's of course coordinating the use of the perks, where SWFs can tactically set up their Boon locations based on their communicated strategy and play in ways to make the most use of them. For example, they can place the Boon in one corner of the map where they already finished gens, and all agree to always run back there if they get hit. They can coordinate to take hits for each other reliably and heal back up consistently. They can go down under pallets and make sure there's another survivor around to occupy the killer for a while, such that the downed survivor can pick themselves up with Exponential.
I think one good change for Boons as a mechanic would be that any 1 survivor can only bless any 1 totem 1 time per trial. So if it gets snuffed after they blessed it, they cannot bless that same totem again and have to find another totem to bless. That would mean any survivor can only at most bless 5 times per trial, and they have to spend much more time searching for totems because they can't just re-bless the one they already know the location of. It would also mean only having 1 dedicated Booner is less sure-fire of a way to get Boon value. As I've said though, I think any such base design nerfs would have to go along with buffs for all Boons but Circle. And those should be getting buffed anyway, at least Dark Theory and Exponential.
Another thing that would help and is needed in general are SWF nerfs to make the balancing disparity less of a problem. Particularly, there should be perk and item/add-on limitations for SWFs, such that any perk and item/add-on can only be present once in a given pre-made group.