xTalon32
xTalon32
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I have a topic on this in the feedback section of the forums where me and some others have been having a really constructive conversation on it.
@xTalon32 said:
So, I do play solo survivor, if anyone has seen any of my other comments they'll know that. But if I play SWF, I usually have at least 2 people escape or more.
That being said, I've been thinking about how to balance the tracking of the killer that SWF gives survivors. It'd be unfair to have constant tracking for the killer, so that's out. But since communication is the biggest advantage of SWF, I thought about how to make it more balanced so friends can communicate but also not have an immense advantage over the killer.
While it's more than likely been suggested before I'm going to suggest it again.
In game voice chat - Optional for solo players with a "Push to Talk" button. Mandatory for any SWF with NO "Push to Talk" option.
Voice chat radius - With the same principle as a terror radius, the killer can only hear talking within a certain distance of the talking survivor.
Perks - Obviously since we have perks to increase and decrease the terror radius of killers we'd need perks to do the same for Voice Chat radius.
Examples: Decrease distance at which a killer hears your voice, but repair gens slower. Or; Increase Voice Chat Radius and Repair speed (since you're working faster you're making more noise).
This kind of system would have the impact of High Risk + High Reward style of gameplay for survivors. It would reward both stealth and overt styles of play. I believe this can work because the high risk play can be faster, but the killer can find and track you easier too, meaning teamwork is key to survive. While stealth play takes more time, but the killer needs to track and engage survivors more carefully.
The idea likely has some issues that need to be worked out, but I honestly think this would make the game more fun as a whole. It offers the choice to survivors to play how they want, but also gives killers the challenge in choosing how they want to hunt survivors. I also believe this would dissuade camping and tunneling in the game, not entirely but for the most part.
If you've read all of this up to this point thank you, I'd love to hear constructive feedback.
That aside, I don't think Solo + Killer should be balanced to SWF for the most part. I think SWF should be balanced to Solo. Though I'm open to suggestions, I find there's more problems with balancing Solo + Killer to SWF level than the other way around.
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Okay, I play solo survivor pretty much exclusively right now, and don't find it difficult.
The ONLY difficulty with solo is how well YOU play with your team and how well your TEAM plays with you.
Solo isn't even close to impossible. It's just easier to blame the killer than it is to accept that you and/or your team didn't work well together. The killer snowballing is a myth. They don't get better as the match goes on, but they DO get fed hard when you start to panic and over react.
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@Exxodus21 said:
Well CLEARLY you tunneled the Jane, who was not at all taking advantage of DS to go for saves, by literally hooking or downing every literally every other survivor first.
How did he tunnel? It's clearly a bad idea to try and unhook someone in FRONT of the killer.
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@Humanarian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202203#Comment_1202203
There are the games where mic is a must have. However, adding a text chat for Survivors is also an option. Besides, even if one Survivor doesn't want to talk, they will still hear what the others talk about and can adjust their actions accordingly.
They may say whatever they want, but every competitive game should be ballanced around the highest skill play only. That means ballancing the game to be fair in a case of the best possible Survivors players playing versus the best possible Killer player. Anything less skilled that would seem unballanced would be a simple matter of "learn to play", because the game gives everything one would need to be effective. That way both sides would have equal chances of winning, and the outcome will come down to their personal skill in case of a Killer and their ability to work in a team as Survivors. No side should have any favours. And if somebody refuses to play in a team, they should get reported and punished by the game (time out, low priority, Honour system, there are many ways to do that).
So, while I agree with you that balancing it to the highest level of play means you simply need to improve, it has one major problem I can think of.
In any competitive game, the people who actually play at the highest level are FAR less than below it. If DBD was entirely based on skill this wouldn't be an issue - games like Rocket League showcase this well. The average player is leaps and bounds below the highest level of play, but what separates them is only skill. So anyone can get there with and effort. If you had perks and addons in Rocket League that balance would shatter. Because it's not just about skill at that point, you have "Meta builds".
If we balance DBD to the highest level of play, it wouldn't be about skill only. Since perks and addons have a massive effect on HOW you play. Just because a game can be balanced at the highest levels doesn't guarantee that it will be at the average level.
Again, I don't disagree with you. But there are some issues that can't be remedied with "learn to play".
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@wolf2014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202912#Comment_1202912
Facecampering is when your right infront of a survivor and not leaving until they die and facecampers try to knock down anyone that is trying to get them but while still standing by the survivor on the hook
Only killer I ever see face camp in the game is Cannibal.
If the gates are open and one guy is hooked, yea he's gonna be camped.
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Honestly, assuming all are of equal skill.
2-3k is where I'd like to land, even as survivor.
I want it to be a challenge to survive and feel like an actual reward. Not something I just get BP for. I had a game yesterday against Plague, and I was the only one to survive, but just barely. I want the feeling that I worked for it, but not get it so often it doesn't feel like a reward.
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@Humanarian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202155#Comment_1202155
In all honesty, the idea is rather simple - give all Survivors an access to an unlimited voice chat, starting with the lobby while waiting for the game to start. Then base the whole game around the fact that every party of Survivors has become an SWF.
Okay, but consider not everyone has a mic and not everyone will use it.
If you balance the killer to 4SWF with that in mind, I have a feeling people will get mad and say it's unfair for killers to be so strong if a survivor chooses not to use their mic.
Would that just be "Too bad" or should there be a system in place for something like that?
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@ClickyClicky said:
Killer easily. People forget what killers are capable of. Run a top tier killer with their best add ons, strongest perks and an ebony and its not even close.
When most people speak of survivors being OP they probably had an average build against optimal survivors. E.g. took a mid tier killer, good but not the best perks and yellow or green add ons.
I play survivor so just want that out of the way first.
Yes killers can be strong. With their strongest addons they can ALL be formidable. But, the chances you use those addons more than once in every 5-10 games is low (estimating that, so I could be wrong). With the same killer player.
What would happen if a killer could use their strongest perks every game? Well honestly survivors would be complaining that killers are OP and unbalanced. However, the same can be said for killers. A good survivor doesn't need god loops and in many cases doesn't need loops to mind game the killer. If a killer is unprepared for that, they'll say survivors are too OP.
I could give more examples but the point is that there will always be polarized opinions. All that being said, with the new map changes I'm going to wait for the results to decide which side has the edge now.
Obviously I'm not considering SWF in any of this, because that system is survivor sided without question.
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@realoboma said:
Survivors will absolutely bully killers if they know that killers can hear them talk.
How would that happen? I'd like to know so I can think of solutions or others can.
Also, do you have any thoughts on the rest of the discussion?
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1199900#Comment_1199900
So I ask you, if this change doesn't seem fair or balanced to you. How would you balance SWF? Because balancing Solo to the level of SWF would send this game into a downward spiral.
Either not touching them at all or ... bringing solos to SWF levels, then buffing killers accordingly.
We do have PTB which they could use to try this super changed version of DBD and see how that plays out. Kinda like Overwatch did their experimental gamemode in their game. They try super weird changes and see if they work out or not.
@Humanarian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1199954#Comment_1199954
This is a bit drastic, but balancing the game to the level of SWF goes against the core concept the game was built on. Four random strangers working together with minimal communication to survive.
The problem with that concept is that it's extremely flawed. No one can phohibid 4SWF from using Discord or any other means of communication. Not even your way would stop it. I believe, they would either just deal with the double voice when close to each other or find some means of blocking their mic device from the game so it doesn't see any mic on their machine. So, it's always going to be 3 Survivors on gens and 1 in a chase because:
1) they always know when and where the chase is going on,
2) many maps are full of the completely un-mindgamable loops where the only way for a Killer to get a hit would be a mistake from a Survivor's side.
Then they will blame Killer for not pressuing the gens enough, as if the Killer can be everywhere at once. Letting one Survivor go and then going for another would only waste more time because they would need to be found first and then it would be 3 gens 1 chase all over again.
So, if we can't balance 4SWF to the level of solo, do either of you have ideas for how to balance Solo + Killers with 4SWF?
And just want to say thanks to you both for having constructive criticism and we can have a good conversation on this :D
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@AnnoyedAtTheGame said:
If you take SWF out of the game then there will be no need to balance it.
Every single game I have played as killer has always had a 4 man SWF group. I think I'm done readying up with teams that are already carrying any kind of equipment on them.
Right now I'm on a 15 minute penalty because of an unfair advantage towards a 4man swf lobby
It's statistically impossible to get a 4SWF group every game.
That being said, removing it would cause severe if not irreparable damage to the game as a whole. If people can't play with their friends most wouldn't play at all.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202074#Comment_1202074
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202094#Comment_1202094
I have not had a layout that was even close to be as aweful as one of those and i get them 2 times in a row. I highly doubt that.
Okay but at this time, you've been given an answer and basically told Peanits he's wrong. People have told you that's the way wreckers has always been.
Just because the layout doesn't enable you to go from one loop to another in seconds doesn't mean it's bad.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Leatherface has a rep for camping but outside of people that meme with insidious he isn’t so bad.
The real culprits are Ghostface, Deathslinger, Wraith, Hag. Spirits as well....they technically leave the hook but always Phase walk back over and over again hoping to catch the unhook so they can tunnel.
I run Devour Hope on wraith so can't camp. But it's funny because people don't expect a wraith to run it :D
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@Danky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200344#Comment_1200344
Legion is weak, people play him cuz they want to. case-in-point OG freddy, he was the weakest yet people played him still 2 because they wanted to.
OG freddy was one of my favorites I'll admit :D
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Lol alright alright, I'm gonna play him for awhile and come back :D
Y'all are so logical.....
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200371#Comment_1200371
Legion is weak lol I mean the fact that his power is so punishing to use ...
Well, when you think about it. Being able to vault every pallet and window (at the same speed as survivors?) is a pretty awesome power.
Granted, I think Deep Wound is a little weak, since it's not even that bad to deal with as survivor. But I'll play him and see what I think after.
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@domai36 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200297#Comment_1200297
We should be thankful you are not a developer - this is bad design 101 - especially from a financial perspective. New player experience is a big deal in modern game design, and Behaviour is aware of this and in more recent times they have started finally making changes that show they are not forgetting new players.
There's no reason any group of players should have a bad experience just because they didn't design it properly back in the day. The removal of Hex : Ruin was a massive change and is something I am glad every new player does not have to experience. I do agree with you that there's nothing wrong with killers having an above .500 rate as they should feel dangerous - especially at the start - but it's still not great, even if it's not as bad as it was a year ago.
Have you heard of the phrase "Easy to learn, difficult to master."?
Define a bad experience. The new player experience is the rush of being chased, the rush of successfully being stealthy, and working together with the other players. The new player experience is about you improving yourself, and if that doesn't interest you or others, that doesn't mean it's bad game design.
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As far as I know Legion isn't nearly as weak as you make him out to be. In fact, I'm pretty sure most killers find Legion pretty good, and most survivors think it's too overpowered.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200299#Comment_1200299
Use discordance. The guess work is gone.
True, and this is where killers should decide what they find important for perks. I haven't used Discordance before so I'll try it out and see how it goes :P
But if a killer uses discordance when I play survivor, I wait until it's gone and work on that gen. Because I know the killer isn't going to check that gen until a bit after, because he'll likely find another survivor by than.
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@ItzPixelYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200240#Comment_1200240
People just get too competitive in a game that isn't competitive and I agree even if I die as survivor I'm glad I had a little fun running with the killer in a chase but yeah the tbagging and stuff is pretty bad, I've let people have the hatch and stuff before and they're they tbagging, I will only tbag a killer that is playing toxic hitting people on the hook etc...tit for tat. People just need to start taking positives out of the game instead of being negative and angry
Unfortunately if you have any Player vs Player game it's competitive. We even have a ranking system to prove it.
The bad part about it is it doesn't reflect the skill of the player. You can have godlike rank 20 survivors and rank 1 potatoes.
And there aren't any actual conditions to "win".
Some people consider escaping/4k's winning and others consider pipping a win.
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@Peanits said:
I'm failing to see where the math was actually done wrong. It seems as though you came up with the same numbers we provided.
In any case, please wait until you try it on the PTB before making any conclusions. It's a little to early to say that it won't be enough. It's not meant to stop gens from going off period, it's meant to stop them from going off before you can possibly get there.
It's also worth noting that with a 20% reduction, it would actually be faster to repair a generator with three survivors than it would be with four.
Respectfully, I will be trying PTB.
But let's assume I start on the furthest side of the map from survivors. I have around 3 gens on average to guess where they are (in groups of 2 or more). So while yes you can plausibly get to gens before they pop. I think the OP is just making the point that unless we guess the right gen immediately, they could still plausibly pop a gen before you get there.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Devs will never acknowledge that camping, tunneling and slugging just ruins the game. Its the same like killers wont ever acknowledge that none of these "tactics" are needed.
I main survivor, and I agree with you 50/50.
Camping/Tunneling/Slugging are legit strategies. If you aren't on a gen when someone is being camped you're slowing down the game.
Hunters go after the sick/injured/weak. If you unhook a survivor close to the killer, obviously they're going to go for the injured party. Make better saves.
There are perks to counter every single one of those. Because you choose not to take them, isn't a killer problem. Camping is a bad idea for killers because it helps get gens done.
You're saying killers should hook you twice and leave you alone to do gens so you can win. If you die; camping/tunneling/slugging!!!
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Okay, but why should you be rewarded for not trying to improve your general survivor skill?
And you should've seen doc BEFORE the rework. His entire terror radius was a static field which CONSTANTLY made your madness go up.
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@Humanarian said:
I do not understand your idea. How is any of the methods you have proposed would stop SWF groups from talking on Discord and completely neglect the "voice chat radius"? The problem here lies in the mere fact that the devs should have added the voice chat for Survivors from the beginning and ballance the game to be fair for 4SWF vs Killer, not for 4 randoms vs Killer. Because that's how the game is ballanced now. It's only a fair game when it's 4 random Survivors. But as soon as there is SWF and communication - the ballance is gone.
Good question, and I'll try to explain so you understand the idea.
In game voice chat - Optional for solo players with a "Push to Talk" button. ****Mandatory for any SWF with NO "Push to Talk" option.**
So specifically the part with SWF. If you want to play SWF, you have no choice but to have voice chat enabled ingame. And push to talk isn't an option. Noise in your microphone triggers the voice chat radius without exception. If you don't wish for this to be the case, you can play solo.
This is a bit drastic, but balancing the game to the level of SWF goes against the core concept the game was built on. Four random strangers working together with minimal communication to survive. The entity obviously didn't throw them into the map with comms.
However, lets say we balance the game to 4SWF vs 1 Killer. Every killer would need an EXTREME tracking buff, while some killers would become completely unplayable. There are killers now that work very well with 4SWF - Hillbilly, Nurse and if I'm not mistaken Oni. All of them can have immense map pressure, which is what you need against 4SWF. Others that can't traverse the map quickly need major tracking buffs to match the amount 4SWF can track the killer.
Point is, you CAN balance it either way, but when trying to balance the game for 4SWF vs 1 Killer, it is a VERY DEEP rabbit hole. I hope this kinda makes more sense, but like I said in my first post I'm sure there are issues with my suggestion. But quite frankly, it would be easier to bring 4SWF down to the level of solo than it would be to bring Solo + KIller to the level of SWF. There would be far less complications that way.
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@DisappointedUser said:
You all realize that downing someone again is not what the word Tunneling means right? Apparently not ..
tunneling means going after one person and ignoring everything in your way. It’s why some survivors can literally push the killer around while they’re tunneling. Because the killer won’t attack the health person.
getting downed again off hook is not being tunneled. It’s being bad.
I agree with a lot of what you said. But there are situations where getting downed after being unhooked isn't being bad. Like when another survivor unhooks you while the killer is still very close by. Obviously the killer is going to go after the unhooked person. But people want to blame killers because it's easier than admitting you had a bad team. And I've had killers chase me the whole game because I carried a flashlight lol.
You can compare killer with any type of pack hunters, Killer Whales, Wolves, Coyotes, Hyenas etc. They don't go after the healthy animal, they go after the injured, sick and the weak. So if you're going to try and save your buddy off hook, do it when the killer is far enough away that they can't down them again seconds later.
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@Milo said:
Ah yes, because everything that is talked by friends is the game and the game only. Don't get me wrong, they do tell themselfes info but they mostly talk about random stuff. Which this would get them killed. (most likely)
You're not wrong, people talk about random stuff, but that's not the issue. The issue is that the information they actively share can be considered game breaking. The game wasn't designed for survivors to have that level of communication.
BHVR needs to take the health of the overall game into consideration. Not just the convenience of SWF groups. I'm not saying SWF is bad in any way, but it's opened the door to serious issues with how it and the game interact. I love playing with my friends, but I'd fully support a change that's in the best interest of the game. This is supposed to be a game of survival with minimal communication, relying on your team mates to work together.
So I ask you, if this change doesn't seem fair or balanced to you. How would you balance SWF? Because balancing Solo to the level of SWF would send this game into a downward spiral.
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@Raulillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1197061#Comment_1197061
I think that's true but in the other hand, nothing can put as much pressure as turning a 4vs1 in a 3vs1. Even doing only 2 gens can be difficult if you are 3vs1 because when you hook 1, 1 have to go for the rescue and the other one can enter a temporary chase while waiting for the unhook.
Well tunneling and camping has definitely leaked into Solo. But I think that's only because a killer can't say with 100% certainty whether a group is SWF or not. And at lower ranks it works because teamwork is a relatively foreign concept because they want to survive without risk.
I play solo survivor and if I get a good team who rescue and stay on gens if the killer is camping, things go well. The problem comes in when you have a team of solo survivors only looking out for themselves, and you will be punished by the killer for that. Back when the game was released this aspect of the game was really exciting for me.
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It's also easy to see who the problem people are in a community, and I'm sure the devs can see that.
But rather than telling someone to stop, just keep being unbiased in your suggestions, and people will listen, but more importantly the devs will likely take those suggestions more seriously because they genuinely care about the health of the GAME. Not a role.
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Well at the same time, hooking a survivor is a way to get another off a gen.
And, leaving the unhooked survivor to chase the rescuer, means 2 people are injured and looking to heal maybe. Hooking puts pressure on survivors, and if you don't camp it's more effective because you can bet more than one person leaves a gen to go save someone if they're trying to be good team mates.
Where I believe the game encourages tunneling/camping right now is SWF, because it's the most effective counter to it right now.
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Yeah, it's better this way because if we had major perk changes it could affect how the new map changes are viewed. So having a PTB for those changes while not changing any core mechanics will be better in the long run, because they can see how the changes affect gameplay now without influence of other changes.
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I think we can all agree - even survivor mains - that god loops were toxic to the game and community as a whole. It negatively impacted both sides of play. I think this change will be positive as a whole, while likely having some minor tweaks and adjustments in time if needed.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1197002#Comment_1197002
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. Some people think it's too little but honestly you can't stack changes in the same direction too heavily and ship them. You have to start small and see the impact they have to the game little by little.
Agreed, with small changes they're much more prepared to handle the direction future changes will go. And in a positive manner.
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Camping isn't rewarded. It's just a means to get at least 1 kill/sacrifice.
If you're not doing gens while someone is being camped, that's not the killers fault.
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It's not 100% fixed, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.
I think the devs taking baby steps with changes like this is a good idea, but too drastic of a change could negatively impact the game.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1195824#Comment_1195824
I don't envy them either, for all of the balance talk ON BOTH SIDES, I challenge anyone to balance killer, solo survivor, SWF and 4-man SWF on comms. You can really only balance for one and that leaves the rest either underwhelming or OP
I believe Solo survivor is an authentic DBD experience, because it fits the lore. The entity has taken 4 complete strangers and tasked them to work together to survive. And I don't know about anyone else, but I can only talk to people next to me unless I have a phone. And we don't have phones in DBD.
The trouble is balancing the game around that. Too big of a change, and SWF is worse than Solo, and too little makes it the same broken system. And while 2 man SWF may seem like it's not as broken, it certainly can be.
The game needs to be balanced around ONE of those, and I think BHVR needs to decide which one soon, and announce it.
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@1234512345 said:
I think swf groups has too much advantage against killer.
I think swfs should use 16 different perks(or 8). (if they are 4 person) Because 4 ds is not balanced.
(sorry for bad English.) :(
Honestly there have been many good suggestions about it. But because of how polarized the community is about balances it's difficult to make a change that is healthy and acceptable for both survivors and killers. The vast majority of the community plays survivor, and so balancing to what survivors want is easy since they make up most of the player base.
SWF is easily the most broken aspect of this game, but coming up with a solution that most killers like will most likely mean most survivors don't like it. And because most of the players play survivor a change to SWF could easily backfire.
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@ChainsawCharlie said:
Anything that makes their life as a survivor inconvenient. Anything that stalls the game down and prevents their mega gen rush. I've seen survivors refer to PGTW and Overcharge and anything else anti-gen as "boring." They act as if they're just in an incredible hurry to sit in another 20-30 minute queue. I as a killer will prevent you from getting gens done and escaping. Deal with it. When I play survivor, I pretty much only complain when there's blatant facecamping but even then, it's more about working with my team to figure out a way to rescue.
Finally someone who gets it. I was a killer main when I first started playing, but I'm a survivor main now for obvious reasons. And to top it off I don't do SWF because I want to play how the game was meant to be played.
People complain solo survivor is hard when it isn't in the slightest. You either had selfish team mates, or they're too scared to work on gens and hop off at the slightest hint of a terror radius. It makes each game different because you don't know how your team will work together. People saying "boring" are just too stubborn to admit survivor is too easy these days. And it doesn't help when the current state of the game encourages killers to tunnel.
I'm not saying killers aren't unbalanced in some ways, but survivors are FAR more unbalanced than killers right now.
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I think this shows that the dev's focus isn't entirely on fixing an unbalanced game. And I'm talking about both killers and survivors, not one or the other. They're both unbalanced.
I honestly can't believe they're trying to put this game into mobile. They're just asking people to buy the same broken game we have on pc and console. I don't even want to think about how bad chases will be for BOTH survivors and killers.
I'm honestly concerned about the long term health of this game already, and this doesn't help.
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Ruin isn't useless right now, but even before the rework it wasn't good.
I would personally just gen tap, and it didn't affect completion time as much as people say or think. New ruin is a joke, unless you're in lower ranks where people run at the slightest hint of a terror radius it does absolutely nothing. The killer can't guard or push people off every gen.
The ONLY killer that can benefit from this is Doctor with range addons and the addon that makes shock therapy travel in a straight line, not a cone.
So effectively they've made Ruin only viable against low rank survivors or people that piss themselves when they hear a terror radius.
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@Vampirox said:
I stop looping God Window when they remove Bloodlust. pallets certain god windows and map remakes is already tough.
You say that like the game is meant to make evading the killer easy... It's not hard to evade a killer right now, and with loops and god loops being what they are it's even easier.
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If you prestige your blood web gets increased chances to have better stuff, but as far as I know it's negligible. However, if you want cosmetic stuff, you may as well.
Although I'd get all of your teachable perks before prestige.
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@Desh said:
Camping is strategic, tunneling is strategic, slugging is strategic. Whatever it takes to take kill someone and get them out of the game is strategic for the killer. Some methods you're just not going to like one bit. I hate it when I get tunneled more than I get camped. When I get camped, I usually run kindred so other survivors know to keep doing gens, and I'll stay on that hook for a full 2 mins if I have to while the others escape.
But just because I hate it doesn't mean I don't understand why. You ever seen a killer be in a chase and 3 gens are done by the time he finishes that that relatively short chase? Typically because they run Prove Thyself or toolboxes or both. Getting a couple of gens done by the end of the first chase is supposed to be the norm, stated by the Devs. Getting an average of 2k per match is also supposed to the norm, also stated by the Devs. A scummy, high guaranteed way of getting that minimum 2k is tunneling and camping. But that's if you're just a bad killer who can't do chases or are going against really good survivors.
I've had it where I did 5 hooks before the 4th gen was done because they played like potatoes or I just outplayed them. I've also had games where I was that killer who had 2-3 gens popped before I finished the first chase (especially Ormond). This game attempts to be balanced but things can be swayed very quickly depending on the Survivors. So killers turn to quick and easier routes, I can't blame them, even if I hate their tactics.
Agreed, until something makes it more advantageous not to do those things, it'll keep happening.
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@cosmicvolts said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191913#Comment_1191913
i understand but why not use some of that killer big brain energy and at least run insidious and camp out of proximity of the hook and then rush back in when they unhook?
I switched from killer main to survivor, and I can tell you I don't like being camped or tunneled, I accept it because it's needed for killers right now. But if every killer camped and tunneled survivor mains would ######### to no end..... More than they already do.
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@NovaliumTS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1190057#Comment_1190057
This is actually highly incorrect
Right lets give you your scenario but show the chain of what actually happened.
Ruin gets nurfed (even though i still see it as a buff)
Whiney killers decide to go to survivor side because they cant learn to play by using a different perk or learning how to use new ruin effectively, however the toxic bad survivors stay and eventually some newbies
Toxic killers start appearing more often tunnelling and face camping more frequently than ever causing survivors to get highly annoyed which makes some of them join killer to stop having to worry about getting taken out of the match so fast whilst others get even better at looping
Survivor turned killer will now use perks which wont include ruin and will learn how to play the game without having to use an originally useless overhyped perk
Killer turned survivor will start playing like a normal survivor
And once again the dbd world will be brought back to being 50/50 and i dont even need to show any proof of this just log onto dbd for yourself and this is highly noticeable as by the looks of it we are only just coming out of the toxic killers tunnelling and camping frequently phase
Hex ruin was never the problem it was peoples mind set on the matter than changed it into what it is now today because some people couldnt adapt and change causing them to indirectly change anyway
Matchmaking is broken and not by one meaningless, useless perk. it is just broken.
(Sorry for the long post but killers holding on to the grasp of saying this perk was good in anyway shape or form really annoy me, the perk was designed to be somewhat an assistance perk not a "ill do everything for you perk" the new ruin sets this up perfectly as now you actually have to be doing something for it to be effective making it the perk it was supposed to be in the first place)
I agree with some of what you said. Ruin is better than it was before, because gen tapping made it useless. Honestly I'd consider why killers find tunneling/camping necessary in the first place. Every killer knows it's not good for BP or pips to do. So why do it? Because when you can be looped infinitely (which has very little to do with killer skill) it would make them want at least ONE person to die on hook and they'll go for that person at all costs.
I used to main killer, but I main survivor now. I didn't start playing like a regular survivor, I played understanding how the killer is thinking when I know which one they're playing. I only play solo right now and I've never found the game easier than now.
However, the "genrush" meta is because of game design, not survivors or killers. It's our job to do gens to escape. It's a killers job to stop us. So, what happens if you play against a group of confident solo survivors that don't stop gens at the first sign of a terror radius? You win. Nearly every single time.
Truth of the matter is there are issues on both ends. And people only ever want their side fixed for the most part. At the moment, there's no excitement factor for either role. The game is a sorry excuse for a horror themed game of "TAG" with the current state of things. It's not exciting anymore to be chased or escape and feel that adrenaline rush of it because it's soooooo easy. But there's no enjoyment in the thrill of the chase because survivors are more agile than killers will ever be, so what's the point?
Both roles need work. And until the real issues are fixed people will continue to have problems.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1186121#Comment_1186121
There s no way someone thinks solo survivor is easy. At this point you just lying.
It is easy. It's how the game was MEANT to be played. Minimal communication, and trust that everyone is gonna help each other out.
What planet are you from where solo isn't easy? If you need to play SWF to win, you're missing out on some fundamental skills of being a good player.
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Lol, the irony of using the perk Calm Spirit. And some people are mad... lol.
How to fix your anger? Apply Calm Spirit
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Honestly, before the rework I'd say yes and no, and after I say the same thing.
Before the rework I'd just gen tap, took maybe 15 seconds longer to do the gen, but I had no skill checks.
Now, either I find the totem which is easy for the most part, or my team does. And even if they don't it doesn't matter, when I play against Ruin as survivor, the only way for the killer to win is map pressure, which only a few killers are good at.
As a killer, I can't recommend it for the most part. If you can do good map pressure WHILE protecting the totem, it's totally worth it. If not, it's a wasted perk slot. You're better off taking tracking perks.
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If your friend had an actual seizure, they shouldn't be playing most games anyways. All games have a seizure warning for safety reasons, I'm not being unsympathetic but it was their choice to play the game. Don't blame something like that on someone else, because it could easily have been avoided. What does your friend care about more? Health or playing games?
And yeah, not being able to play sucks. But personally I'd rather not risk it since seizures can kill you.
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They've reworked matchmaking so much and it seems as though it gets worse every time.
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If BHVR balances the game around SWF, it will destroy the balance of the game more than it already is. SWF needs to be balanced with solo.
I solo queue and I'm rank 14 currently. I don't find the game too hard at all, I've been high rank survivor too and it still isn't that hard as solo survivor. I've said before that solo is the closest thing to how something like this would work in reality, as we can't telepathically communicate with others, and if you were summoned by the entity you won't have a phone either.
But lets go ahead and say they balance solo with SWF. You'd need constant tracking on the killer for the most part, which means it'd be super easy to avoid and run away from the killer. This changes the game from a horror survival (and it's generous calling it that at all right now) to a role reversal torturing the killer because "survivors" don't want to fight to survive anymore. They want to escape and that's all they'll be happy with.