xTalon32
xTalon32
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There's no point in a mori if it's on death hook. I'd rather hook someone to save time than mori them.
Instead, I do believe this: Ebony Mori - Can kill any survivor hooked at least once, only if another survivor is hooked before the kill.
So, in order to get the kill after first hook, you need to hook a DIFFERENT survivor at least once before you can mori the first survivor. This makes mori's stay powerful, and gives the survivor the opportunity to play STEALTHILY to stay alive.
Edit: I'm a survivor main to avoid any stupid accusations.
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@Nick said:
"Tunneling is ignoring every other survivor and everything else going on in the game to down and hook one guy over and over. Tunneling is chasing one guy to the extreme that it's not only counterproductive but also detrimental to winning the match." < A Reddit quote which describes it perfectly, for me.
But some people count chasing the same people twice in a row as tunneling. So when a survivor gets unhooked, healed, starts repairing a gen and you find them again. Do I have to respect that survivor on the gen and walk away? Or can I chase them again. I don't know what it means now, "-rep camp tunnel" almost feels like muscle memory.
Aside from all the stupid arguing, this is what "tunneling" originally meant.
It has become common to blame mistakes and coincidence on tunneling/camping. But genrushing is also commonly used to blame survivors for the killer not applying pressure, being bad in chases, or misuse of powers.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
I don't discredit anyone just for running a perk unless it's Self Care
Self Care is pretty good to have solo though. If I played SWF I wouldn't bother with it.
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I volunteer as tribute!
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People need to make a distinction between Solo and SWF.
SWF is the power role. Solo is balanced as long as you don't have potatoes for team mates. And "balanced" as in it's not too difficult and not too easy.
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@Stitch7833 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1235990#Comment_1235990
its weird to think someone tries to sexualize a cut up body... like whats next you guys wanna ######### the hag? go to porn hub if youre unable to control yourself but lets not get some weird ######### going on in a horror game, last thing i need is a bunch of people fapping over DBD
I think it's weird that you're the one who thinks that.... I simply think the artist did a good job with what they did. If you don't view it sexually from the start, you can see that's not what the artist was aiming for.
Art is interpretive, so your opinion is a reflection of your view. You immediately viewed it sexually yourself.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1235729#Comment_1235729
You can't encourage camping killers to stop camping, no matter what kind of blood points or emblems you throw in their face. You have to punish the practice itself in some form for it to stop.
The issue is it already is. I played a game as killer recently and lost points when I wasn't even camping. I was just moving too close to the hook.
It's possible that it's not enough, but simply punishing killers for being too close to a hook isn't the solution either. Which is why I mentioned making perks that people want to use more than they want to camp.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1236038#Comment_1236038
This seems almost ridiculous to argue. It’s obviously an advantage, but people using it isn’t quite like using hacks. It’s a gray area to me.
If the question is does it give an advantage? Yes, obviously so.
Agreed, but it wouldn't necessarily give the same advantage on closed maps like Meat Plant or Lery's. But getting those randomly is uncommon.
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@Kellie said:
No.
I love your reasoning on this.
@flutekiller9001 said:
Now when you're running through the maps of DBD and you haven't met the killer yet it makes sense that you're bright eyed and full of spunk. However after that sharp object slices your body up like a lawnmower you start to wonder...why am I still full of so much energy. And if my character is limping...why haven't I slowed down at all? But you're still being chased so you ignore it and then in a while you find yourself hanging in the air with a metal hook sticking out thine shoulder. Your comrade rescues you but your journey isn't over yet. The killer is nearby. So after all that you run at full speed still limping holes all over your body, blood dripping from every hole whether it was there before or not. And yet, how? If you are limping how are you running at the same speed as someone who has no limp? Someone who isn't suffering from severe blood loss? Now I play both sides of this game and I can say that playing survivor is boring because the challenge and scare factor is gone. It's just a meme at this point. But if there were a 5% maybe even 10% movement penalty to injured survivors until they were healed fully it would not only promote altruism but make killers like: Plague, Legion, and Clown better because people would need to heal in order to be able to get away from them. And if this happened it may also mean that blood lust may need to also be reduced a little but if you get to the third tier what are you really doing with your life anyway?
Looking at the situation. There's not a lot people wouldn't do to survive, in a situation like that. Consider you're being chased by a killer, you're going to have massive amounts of adrenaline in your body. Even while injured that adrenaline helps keep you awake and alert. If you're running for your life you're going to run as fast as you can even if you're injured.
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@Kellie said:
It doesn't matter. Even if the survivor didnt have stretch res you won't be able to notice and it won't affect you at all. Stop complaining about it and ignore it.
You're missing the point of the conversation. It's more about the tactical advantage it can give in open maps. Since it lets you see further than you normally would, by quite a large margin.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1235973#Comment_1235973
I think a lot of people would play on normal res if the default FOV wasn't so low. Of course some people will do everything they can to gain any sort of advantages but a lot of people choose to play on stretched just because it feels so much better.
Low FOV bothers a lot of people, including me. Every other game I play usually has good enough default FOV or they have a FOV slider. I tried playing on normal res again many times and it feels so bad. Like I said, it almost makes me sick. Increasing the default FOV for both sides would make a lot of people happy.
I agree that the FOV bugs me sometimes, but it's an intentional game design choice. It was likely experimented with for countless hours to see what would be considered TOO MUCH and what would be considered too little. They probably concluded any more than it already is could be used to gain some kind of advantage in the game.
I would argue that it bugs us simply because we're all so accustomed to higher FOV in games period. This is because we want to see large areas with ease, but this can tell you where a killer is when you otherwise wouldn't have known. And like I said, while I don't think it's bannable I do think if the devs intended to have that FOV it would have been in the options.
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@ClickyClicky said:
How many killers put down that hooking the same survivor over and over again doesnt affect fairness?
I put down the truth whether I liked it or not. But that's just me.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1234793#Comment_1234793
:| yeah, survivors really have the luxury of getting to use fun, unqiue perks and can definitely survivor in solo random matches easily without any second chance perks. 🙄
I solo queue and never use ANY second chance perks o.O
My main build that I use pretty much all the time: Kindred or Empathy | WGLF | Self-Care | Botany Knowledge or Dead Hard
This build allows me to look out for myself if need be, and help my team if need be.
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Just gonna post someone's fan art here.
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@Smeagolthevile said:
The biggest issue for me comes from the exact points you laid out, no matter what point of view you are looking at, its not a fun game. If you are hooked its not fun, if you are one of the 3 left its not fun, if you are the killer its not fun.
There are some situations when camping is okay, like the post game collapse for example.
I personally think that the game should encourage instead of punish. Things like 'time speant near hooked survivors shouldnt punish you, but instead time spent AWAY from hooked survivors should reward you. If you hook a survivor and leave the area to find more, you should given a tangable and visible benefit akin to the safe and unsafe hooks.
Especially since Bloodpoints dont really affect anything monitarially (except MAYBE the shrine of secrets) they should start giving them more freely when you do things that make interesting games, vs just trying to win.
Yeah the biggest problem is how gameplay interacts with the Emblem + BP system. It's set up in a way that rewards you for punishing the opposing side, and punishes you for getting punished.
Having a game where everyone gets a decent amount of points is honestly pretty rare. So it's been set up in such a way that it encourages both sides to be at each others throats.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1235169#Comment_1235169
I don't get how you can see the killer coming from further distances with stretched res. It only gives you a slight advantage at certain loops from my experience and is there even a loop in this game where you cannot see the killer in the normal res but you can with stretched? It didn't seem like it to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Believe me, I wouldn't play like this if the base FOV in this game wasn't so bad. I didn't start using it to gain an advantage or something, I just decided to try it one day after seeing people use it. Playing like that feels so much better to me, going back to the normal res almost makes me sick now. The base FOV should really be higher for both sides in my opinion, without needing to use perks.
I also find it really funny how the person who tweeted this first plays on other regions with a VPN and then complains about stretched res giving an advantage.
The vertical FOV increase lets you see VERY far across the map in most cases. I think what @Quol is trying to say, is that increase gives you an unfair advantage being able to see further away from you in most areas of the map.
I agree that on a map like Meat Plant it doesn't matter, or any enclosed space. But a lot of maps are open, and being able to see the killer coming from further away sometimes even before you hear the TR can be considered unfair.
While I don't believe it's ban worthy, if it was intended to be like that the Devs would have put the option into the game. I'll probably try it myself just to see if it doesn't give an advantage like you say, but I find it hard to believe people aren't using it for that purpose. Simply considering that until it showed up, people were fine with the FOV.
Edit: And in response to what you told me, the fact you can turn your camera makes your point pretty irrelevant.
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To be honest when I played killer, I'd use Mori's just to get rid of them. It's difficult to get many points using them.
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@arslaN said:
It's not really a huge advantage at all. It would be a huge advantage if it actually increased the horizontal FOV but it doesn't.
I don't know a single game that doesn't allow stretched res and I'm not sure it's even possible to not allow it.
You have looked at the original pictures he posted right? It's close to 200% more FOV for survivor.
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Yeah, while some people complain about NoED after the gens are done. There are those who think they can complain even if it didn't activate. It seems just having the perk is ammo enough to be rude to you.
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@NoEdIsBad said:
Time and time again i’ll be playing with friends, doing great. Gens done, great teamwork, healing, callouts, looping killers. And then it happens. You get the last gen done and see that glimmer of hope. The Exit Gates. But right as you reach it..*DUN DUN* NoEd proctors and all that progress, time, and teamwork is flushed down the drain by the easiest crutch perk in the game. NoEd isn’t a perk that needs to exist. It’s horrible. It proves that you can try as hard as possible and still have all that mean nothing because a killer can get his easy kills on you and your teammates. OtzDarva has proven this multiple times and has even gone out of his way to have streams dedicated to the fact that it’s unfair and unbalanced. Remove NoEd from the game. Make us all happy. Show us that you are infact. Doing a pretty good job so far.
We can all see you made this forum account just to make this topic.
Anyways, just like killers, survivors have two objectives. Generator's is primary, Totem's are your secondary. Otzdarva even commented on a more recent stream that it wasn't about NoED because he didn't even use it.
By saying NoED is game breaking you're also saying a Hex like Devour Hope is too. Unless the complaint isn't about the perk, but more about why you shouldn't have to do totems that aren't lit.
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Yes, a lot of people including myself have stopped playing killer. I don't have as many issues with killer as others, but I'm hoping the new changes fix some in a way. My biggest complaint about playing killer is the amount of toxicity you receive even if you didn't Camp/Tunnel/Slug. The amount of people that just want to ruin your experience - while not huge - is still enough to make it a sour experience.
However, survivor is easy to rank up and you can play with friends.
Killer can be fun don't get me wrong, but the amount of trash talk you receive even if you play "fair" according to "survivor standards" is stupid. Which isn't to say killers don't do the same thing because I've seen rude killers too.
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Okay, so now we as survivors are annoyed that killers guard gates and gens? That makes perfect sense.
Let's just remove killers from the game, then we'd have no issues at all.
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This is something you should DM a mod or Dev about, not post on the forum.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
The worst aspect of moris atm is how they encourage tunneling. This change wouldn't fix that, frankly.
What do you think about this?
You cannot kill a survivor until after you've hooked another survivor. This would allow the person who can be mori'd to get away and heal, and make it so the killer actually wants to find another survivor to hook.
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BBQ&Chilli and Kindred + WGLF
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@LALYTHIA said:
I'll let you know after the next patch. LOL
Agreed, right now we have to wait until after everyone has had a chance to settle into the new changes then we can see if it needs to be changed or removed.
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Survivor is easier to rank up
Killer is easier to farm BP with.
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@alaenyia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1232222#Comment_1232222
For starters, it is not the hooked survivors fault that a team mate, and likely a rando, got them off the hook in front of a killer. So to you, Why should the fresh offhook be punished by the killer for an action completely out of their control. Second, what are survivors supposed to do when every hook, in 90% of games, are getting the proxy camp. And now maps are getting smaller. Killers like to say, "They should not have gone for the hook in front of me." but if you never leave the area there is no other option. And we are human beings, playing a game, not wolves fighting for survival. You make a conscious choice to ruin another human beings match when a killer repeatedly goes after a freshly offhooked survivor and does not let them even play. I play killer too, and I don't tunnel fresh offhooks, I don't hang around hooked survivors, and I don't slug survivors down so I can leisurely hook em all for the 4k. Most likely because I survivor main, I don't participate in poor sportsmanship when I am in a killer match. And you know what, my score does not suffer for it and I avoid 99% of negative after-chat.
Okay but my point still stands. You want to punish killers for taking advantage of a stupid survivors mistake. And no, 90% of games aren't proxy camping, or we'd see MUCH more escapes and MUCH more complaints. You have the worst luck in the universe to get 90% proxy campers. And yeah, it is a game, about surviving a psychopathic killer. Who is "hunting" you.
I main survivor, so yeah I know what I'm talking about. I had a team mate today who unhooked me in front of a Deathslinger. Was that the killers fault? No. So why should he be punished for going for me when my team mate is the one who screwed up. You seem convinced that if your team is poor, you deserve all these chances to get away and survive or heal. This game is 1v4, and if you can't work together to escape you don't deserve to, and the killer should NEVER be held responsible for that. If you want to complain about bad team mates, either take responsibility yourself or play SWF so it doesn't happen.
Killer's thought process: "Well that idiot unhooked when I was barely away, I'ma turn around and get to them quicker than any other survivors. I'll go for the injured survivor so I can PRESSURE and WEAKEN the team as a whole. If I manage to see the "saver" and it's possible to get a hit quick, I'll go for them so they have to heal or another survivor will heal them, thus slowing gen progression."
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Lol, who would've thought a positive conversation could be had on these forums :D
You sir, deserve a cookie!
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@alaenyia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230231#Comment_1230231
Tunneling is hitting/chasing a fresh offhook. And Camp/Tunnel/Slug is 90% of matches I am in these days. Just tunneling those fresh offhooks, slugging them to chase down the offhooker. Rinse and repeat. It is lazy, cheap gameplay but I agree that at least some of the problem is survivors and killers being able to pip is vastly different.
Okay so we should punish killers for poor survivor saves? "Tunneling" comes from "Tunnel Vision". But, let's say that you're right, and tunneling is "hitting an unhooked survivor". Now, in order for this to happen the killer needs to be close by the area of the hook. Which also means the "saver" is just going for unhooks without thinking that the killer WILL turn around and down them again and go after you. Why should the killer be punished for the "savers" poor judgement? I've been unhooked in front of the killer more times than I can count, and I NEVER thought it was tunneling. They're doing their job, and you made it easier.
Think about wolves or lions for example, do you know what they hunt for? The weak, sick and the young. They go for the easiest target, not the strong and difficult one. So you expecting a killer to go for the "saver" rather than the already injured person, is just an excuse for poor choices.
Granted there are times when you don't have a choice, but those are uncommon. The most common mistake by survivors which is blamed on killers is poor hook rescues. And it probably happens in 90% of your games because you're unhooking a survivor next to the killer or your team does it to you, and you automatically blame the killer for your team's mistake.
This isn't to be rude or accusatory to you, but just to show you a different perspective. If you look at what you said differently you may notice you're trying to accuse killers of being unfair for doing their objective. Minus Camping/Tunneling (how I explained them). Slugging is a different thing altogether, but there is slugging I'm okay with and slugging I believe ruins the game. There's a fine line with all three of those.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230000#Comment_1230000
Again, false. The majority of teams are not SWF.
Not every core meta of killers have been nerfed. But you're right, DS and BT probably won't get touched, and shouldn't, because camping and tunneling aren't perks - they are rampant cheap game play that occurs in almost every single match. :) So they are here to stay. You can thank your killer brotheren for that.
It is absolutely not 100% pro-survivor. Almost every patch for the last 18ish months has mainly contained changes and nerfs that effected survivors more deeply in an effort to balance the dreaded SWF, all the while solo survivors - the actual majority - get cucked in the process.
I do agree it is more difficult to rank up as killer - absolutely. It's a broken system and I blame some of the outrageous and unfun sweat on the broken pip system, for sure. And no, you cannot do 2 gens and max pip. Sorry.
So you say camping/tunneling occurs "almost every single match"? So what do you consider camping/tunneling?
Camping - Is the killer staying CLOSE to a hooked survivor. Definitely not a solid strategy, because it ruins everyone's experience including the killer's.
Tunneling - Chasing a single person until they're dead. Now, if some stupid survivor is going to unhook near the killer, it's not tunneling to go for the injured person first. However, if this killer ignores people they find anywhere else and ONLY searches for a specific person, that is tunneling.
Camping happens MUCH more frequently than tunneling. But the problem is people have begun to say chasing an injured survivor instead of going for the rescuer is tunneling, which just isn't the case.
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Thing is the chances of it becoming a "meta" perk you always have is low. There are more useful perks to take.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1228219#Comment_1228219
If you want to make NOED base kit for Killers.. then the hatch should immediately open the moment all 5 generators get completed. Why should a killer be able to run a perk that can instantly ruin a game just because they got 1 lucky hit? You know how many times ive gone entire games without getting hit, then NOED procs and I end up getting 1 hooked during a solo match?
If you want to make NOED fair; two things need to happen.. A Totem counter needs to be applied for both sides and the killer should not be able to see totem auras. Because countless times; especially with Devour Hope.. Killers just set up shop at their totems or Freddy, Hag and Trapper just put a trap/snare down infront of the totem so they know any time its being touched.
Devour Hope is probably the best and most BALANCED hex perk in the game. There's no reason it's unfair for a killer to guard it. They can't be there the whole time without losing. So being able to see totem auras is needed for killers, otherwise we may as well just remove ALL hex perks and ALL 1 hit down mechanics including killers and addons.
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@KrazyAce13 said:
Ok let’s talk about the coming gen speed changes. Am I the only one who sees this change as useless?
so why is it when survivor nerfs happen they have an opportunity to completely bypass it as if it never happened?
maybe if all 4 survivors are solo ques it might work, but once you get a 2,3 or 4 man swf 9 times out of ten one of them is running prove thy self . And this is going to make that 5% useless and we will have the same gen speeds as we do now. If you really want to make it a big difference to actually change the way the game is played for real the speed reduction will need to be 50% that way it takes 3 people to make a difference on one gen and 4 for a 200% repair speed. I don’t think a 5% reduction and then giving them an option to completely negate the reduction is a good change.
The change is ONLY meant to stop gens from being done before a killer can even get there. It's not a huge difference with multiple people on gens, just adds 8 seconds of repair to 4 people repairing a gen together.
But they've also reduced the great skillcheck bonus too.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1228844#Comment_1228844
Yeah he started out testing to see if it was OP, listed all the problems with it which we’ve been over a thousand times, and then he discovered for himself that proxy camp and tunnel is even more powerful. He admitted in a lot of situations survivors had no chance.
Proxy camp and tunnel, so lazy, not fun, works well. Only counter is to rush gens which is where NOED comes in.
Its a shambles. The fact people are trying to defend this playstyle as legit just goes to show that for some players ez wins with no effort -> making the game more enjoyable and balanced
Yeah tried watching it, but he even admitted it was poorly organized and it wasn't even about NoED. He had no rules for this "experiment", which makes it entirely void of any meaning. This is exactly what I mean by the fact we need the data across the game.
However, it does prove camping is a dick move. So I'll admit now that camping is not a "legit" strategy since it harms both survivors and killers. But to combat this, I feel we should have more perks like Devour Hope where they activate and/or build stacks when survivors are unhooked a certain distance away from you. And they can't be weak perks either, it has to be something people want to use more than camping.
But again, he even directly stated that his stream wasn't about NoED being overpowered before the first 10 minutes were up.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1228402#Comment_1228402
Glad to see someone else gets it.
This thread isn’t just about NOED, it’s the “proxy camp, tunnel and NOED” playstyle that I would genuinely say 90%+ of killers use. At least on EU servers.
It’s low effort, really not fun for survivors and works against all but the optimal swf teams.
Its bad game design to have a low effort play style be more successful than a high effort playstyle.
Also people need to realise that a lot of the time with this development team “its in a good place” or “its a legit strategy” usually means “yeah we cba changing that”.
As another user here said (sorry cant remember the name as I skimmed through) the devs consider Legion to be just fine. That really sums it all up.
Your OP states Otz set out to prove NoED was overpowered, and he then proceeds to barely use it. I can't say much for the EU servers but the only place I see NoED on any killer is low rank or it actually helps the perk build. I'm not saying you're wrong, but unless we have the overall stats of the game on something like this, we can't say with 100% certainty that it's true.
Isolated uncontrolled tests have too many variables to consider, so these "100 Game stats" are really irrelevant. We need to take a look at the game as a whole. Then we might be able to know for sure. And BHVR likely uses this information to say things are "legit" "fine where they're at" etc.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1228614#Comment_1228614
Sorry, but I still think your comment was unnecessary. That doesn't prove that OP is biased at all. He saw footage of Otz playing in a certain way and wants to discuss it here. The fact that Otz complained about DS in a separate ocasion is completely irrelevant to this specific discussion, and chances are OP wasn't even aware of it. Hell, I didn't even know Otz said anything like that, even though I share some of the same opinions on DS.
This is just not the way to foster a healthy discussion. Fostering the "us vs them" mentality here does nothing but harm to the community.
Well the OP just said it as a blanket statement of "fact" rather than wanting an open discussion. I agree with you though, the "us vs them" attitude is going to send this game to hell before the devs do. But the OP doesn't want a discussion, while some others do. It's really just tiresome to see the forums lately.
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1228333#Comment_1228333
The devs can't and shouldn't do anything to prevent overly-altruistic survivors from being punished
The real issue is survivors are fed up with core game mechanics. And so are killers.
"NoED is OP because we can't track/be bothered to do totems." "Camping is stupid because how dare the killer use the hooked person as bait, it's not fun for THEM"
"DS is OP because I'm too lazy to chase more" "Adrenaline is OP cuz survivor didn't earn it" "Gen rush is OP cuz the survivors should just wait for me"
I have NEVER seen any asymmetrical pvp game achieve balance, or even agreement on what balance is. Both sides will always complain about something being unfair to them. The reality is survivors and killers aren't on equal ground at all. They will NEVER be.
Killers can blame survivors for gen rushing all they want, it's their objective to get gens done. But it's an OPTIONAL objective to do totems, some do them but most don't.
Survivors can blame killers for camping/tunneling/NoED all they want, it's their objective to kill you. But it's OPTIONAL on how they want to do this, some camp/tunnel and use NoED but most don't.
I'm saying this because everyone is sooooo concerned with each other they fail to realize that this problem is bigger than these petty issues. It's a problem with the design of the game as a whole. Like I said before, asymmetrical games will NEVER achieve balance because you just can't make everyone happy with every change.
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@ClickyClicky said:
So Otz set out to prove that NOED is overpowered and more importantly - unfair. As everyone who doesn’t play one side exclusively would tell you.
He decided to play like 90%+ of the EU servers, that being proxy camp, tunnel and NOED.
He was shocked to find that he won game after game after game after game after game. No effort, no skill required, just proxy camp to bait the unhook then tunnel mercilessly with NOED as back up. The survivors all had their “broken” perks, DS, BT etc but it wasn’t enough to escape. He was using Legion too who most people try to claim isn’t a viable killer.
Now you can try to put it on the survivors saying they should “rush gens etc” but you’ve likely got people who just want to unhook their friend so they can enjoy the game, or solos who just want to pip so they NEED the unhook as the game requires you to get it.
This isn’t a shock one bit. I’ve said it many times. Killer takes no skill. Camp, tunnel, NOED and you’ll do really well in most of your games with no effort required.
Now only at the very end did one team manage to escape. He played daft on purpose I think 2/3 made it out, would have been 2 but he purposefully let one go so that would have been a tie. It took a combination of DS and luck offerings for kobes to make it happen. Know why the last team did so well? Because they were a swf, one on the hook told the rest to just rush gens. So one took the sacrifice for the team. That means the gameplay consisted one one person queuing for 7 mins in the lobby just to sit on a hook for 2 mins and be out of the game with a depip. The others just had to hold M1 and hope the gens were done before their friend died. Killer mains in their effort to try and justify winning at any cost say this is fine but we all know its just garbage. Nobody wants to play like that because it’s not fun nor exciting.
I don’t expect anyone here to agree. Forum is mostly full of the most biased killer mains who try to justify anything so long as it favours their side. Otz explains perfectly why NOED is cheap and needs a change. Anyone but the most biased players can see it.
So I guess this is for the dev team. The question is are you willing to be brave enough to shake up the game? Or will fear or change leave it in the state that its in. Killers want more time, survivors want less tunneling. The nature of the game should change based on that.
In b4 “legit strategy” “balanced perk”
Aside from the fact you're one of the most biased people on the forum to begin with, but let's ignore that and look at facts.
Yes, getting tunneled or camped sucks. No one likes having it done to THEM. But I guarantee every survivor has enjoyed a game where their team mate got tunneled/camped and they escaped. Popular opinion right now is unless every survivor has fun and "wins", that the game is killer sided because of their playstyles. Which is simply another opinion. Yeah, if I get 5 gens done and the killer has NoED it bugs me because of all that work and getting killed. But, IF totems had been done in the first place, REGARDLESS of time lost, it would NEVER activate. That's the trade off you make as a team or solo survivor when you decide to ignore totems.
But you also said he used NoED as backup and rarely even had to use it. So you've already set up your topic on a subject that doesn't cover "how NoED is overpowered" except to say it's OP because of proxy camping?
I'm all for listening to what you have to say, but can you show me evidence that NoED is used disproportionately to other perks on top of it being as overpowered as you believe? BHVR hasn't released that data, so all we have is isolated incidents. Because 1 - 1000 games isn't NEARLY enough data to say ONE perk is overpowered across the board. There are a lot of variables to consider when determining this.
In order to 100% say NoED is overpowered we need the data from all platforms. So that means the data of every game where the killer used NoED. But we'd need to filter out every game where it failed to activate. Suppose we do that, we'd need to factor in the people killed BEFORE NoED activated, whether it was destroyed, etc etc etc.
I'm all for change, but I want that change to be backed by actual fact. But since BHVR isn't, and likely won't provide that data, we can't come to any real conclusions about any of this. At least none that have the amount of data required.
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As a survivor main, I can honestly say I don't run into NoED NEARLY as often as the people on the forum do. What with having Mori's every game too.
IF I decide to play killer NoED is something I'd use to buff my endgame, but only on killers with little to no map pressure. So NoED on Doctor, Billy, Nurse etc, seems silly to me.
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This has been discussed to the point of.... well we won't go into that.
They're working on it.
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On a side note, this topic belongs in Feedback and Suggestions.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
After playing a couple hundred NOED games as survivor as of late, I have come to a very clear conclusion. Cleansing dull totems is not the best way to counter NOED. It takes 70 seconds for the cleansing animations alone which is nearly enough time to finish a gen. Instead of giving the killer a free gen, I suggest not healing and just pumping gens or if you want to go for saves NOED can always be cleansed after it has already applied to a hex. Cleansing dull totems just means the killer is getting max value from their NOED or in the worst case scenario the killer doesn't even have NOED and your team just wasted a whole gen's worth of time picking apart bones. If you like bp or use Inner Strength, cleansing the dull totems is still a very viable strat, but speaking optimally I suggest the other strategies I mentioned pertaining to countering NOED.
I get you want to get your 5k post count. It's super impressive. I bet you've spent more time on the forums than playing the game though :D
And it takes 14 seconds to cleanse ANY totem (not including slow down perks).
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@Waffleyumboy said:
After playing a couple hundred NOED games as survivor as of late, I have come to a very clear conclusion. Cleansing dull totems is not the best way to counter NOED. It takes 70 seconds for the cleansing animations alone which is nearly enough time to finish a gen. Instead of giving the killer a free gen, I suggest not healing and just pumping gens or if you want to go for saves NOED can always be cleansed after it has already applied to a hex. Cleansing dull totems just means the killer is getting max value from their NOED or in the worst case scenario the killer doesn't even have NOED and your team just wasted a whole gen's worth of time picking apart bones. If you like bp or use Inner Strength, cleansing the dull totems is still a very viable strat, but speaking optimally I suggest the other strategies I mentioned pertaining to countering NOED.
I get you want to get your 5k post count. It's super impressive. I bet you've spent more time on the forums than playing the game though :D
And it takes 14 seconds to cleanse ANY totem (not including slow down perks).
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1226272#Comment_1226272
I already knew matchmaking was bad, that wasn't my question. Can you read my comment again?
"So tell me, how is matchmaking a noticeable issue except for when it comes to queue times?"
I don't know if I'm misunderstanding too but he did answer your question. You wanted evidence of bad matchmaking excluding queue times, which he provided in those pictures.
Can you clarify what you mean?
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I find it weird to even bring items, I just find them in the map and if I escape I keep it and if not oh well.
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Lol that's awesome!!!
I wanna see Wraith with a FML face lol :D
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@ALostPuppy said:
NOED is lame and stupid, but it's also a trash tier perk that bad killers think is good. The most it'll usually do for them is get 1 pity kill at the end of a match when they failed to complete their objective in time. The reason why it's usually only 1 kill is because the remaining survivors will just book it out of the exit gates anyway. And also a lot of the lower rank killers who run it will get a down, hook and then camp until death. It gives the other 3 survivors more than enough time to find the totem and then bomb the hook with BT to get a save.
The fact people have the idea that it guarantees a kill is weird. Obviously if you're gonna hang out at the gates instead of go destroy that totem yeah it's guaranteed. They played the game with 3 perks instead of 4, and if they had another hex perk they could have played with just 2.
"The most it'll usually do for them is get 1 pity kill at the end of a match when they failed to complete their objective in time."
Ummmmm, when did killers have a time limit to when they're allowed to have kills? I'm asking because the above statement is implying that as soon as the last gen is done survivors "deserve" to win. I could be wrong about what you mean and if I am please clarify what you mean. But, unless you escape, the killer can and indeed should try to kill you. If I play killer I'm not on a time limit to kill you, and if you stick around by 99'ing gates I'm going to take advantage of it.
That being said, NoED is fine where it's at. I'm a survivor main and totems are part of our objective too, so saying NoED is unfair simply because you didn't do totems isn't fair. You can prevent it from even activating, yet it's unfair because you CHOSE not to do totems.
It doesn't make sense to blame killers or their perks for being OP when they're easily countered. Now, if it was impossible to counter I'd agree it's OP. But don't pretend it's a killer's "crutch" perk because they're bad. Those that do are simply putting the responsibility of their own mistakes onto killers because they can't be bothered to accept the fact they messed up.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
I regularly do 2-4 bones and I'M the one who gets hit by it. My bitching is justified.
Blame your team for not helping. This isn't an "every man for himself" game, and if you play like that you'll be punished.
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Wraith
Addons: Coxcombed Clapper + All Seeing Blood or Shadow Dance Blood /// Bone Clapper + The Ghost Soot
All of the above create panic when you uncloak close to survivors. With Bone Clapper and "The Ghost" it gives survivors a false sense of security that you're not around for 6 seconds.
Perks: BBQ, Devour Hope, Enduring, Discordance.
You can switch Enduring and Discordance out for NoED (SWF) or Unrelenting.
The idea is to throw the survivors into panic mode, so they start making mistakes. Which silent bell does VERY well. And if you get good totem placement (which isn't often) you can easily get to 3 stacks of Devour Hope before they start looking for it. Tracking isn't a huge issue when you use "All Seeing" so if you don't need the extra BP you can change BBQ out for something else.
If you get the whole build to work (which isn't often but you can) it's super fun. And I've had a lot of survivors say the same.