thrawn3054
thrawn3054
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@danielmaster87 said:
Because Tombstone add-ons are overpowered and jumping in lockers is the only "counter" to them.
Piece is OP. Judith's Tombstone isn't. The down sides are so brutal it's just never practical to run it.
@topic why wouldn't I jump in the locker? It's my only counter to by my team anytime. That said, if I can tell they're trying to get the achievement I'll let them mori me.
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Honestly they're fine as is. Minus the hilltop/in the wide open spawns. You get 1,000 bp per dull totem, which is a fair return for 14 seconds of work.
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Yes, weirdly enough. It's like I feel more confident with certain survivors.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455953#Comment_2455953
I guess it's just hard for me to imagine him as especially terrible. I get that the general sentiment is that if a killer's powers are not directly harmful then many people consider them to be "worthless M1 killers" but I don't know, I just don't see how someone with his abilities could ever have been perceived as bad, let alone "the worst". Not that I don't believe your opinion, I've seen others say the same.
I just don't like him as he is now. Invisibility, super speed, survivor finder, silence, AND a mega-lunge? That's just way too much to me. I wouldn't mind all that crap if it were balanced better.
You need to remember he used to be much slower, visible across the map, and didn't have the big lunge.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455151#Comment_2455151
I appreciate you being polite about it. Most people who defend the Wraith do so in a way that's aggressive and condescending. "He's fine". "He's fine, he's fine, he's fine. He's C tier at best. You just need to get better". It's not even me that people usually say this to because to be honest I've almost given up even trying to explain to anybody why the Wraith is a profound annoyance.
I get that every killer needs to be challenging to some extent, and that yes, certain gameplay elements will make those killers easier to handle, Wraith included. I just think that - for some reason - while so many people endlessly discuss things like what can be done about Spirit and whether Leatherface is too cheap, there seems to be segment of this forum (and therefore the fanbase in general) that's devoted to defending The Wraith at all costs. It seems that a lot of it comes from the fact that he was apparently seen as the weakest killer in the game for years, or at least that's a claim I've seen. I honestly don't understand how that's even possible given his abilities, but fair enough, people are happy to see him become more viable. But I think that - like the Trickster - instead of the character being given much of a serious inspection the developers basically just did a surface pass, saying "okay let's make this faster, turn this thing off, and...yeah alright, he's better now".
All killers can get a free hit if you're just not paying attention, don't have enough sense to use your surroundings, etc. I understand that part. But Wraith has a much easier time of getting that free hit. There are countless situations where the Wraith can come near, the player won't be able to detect him, and he can uncloak nearby and zoom into view for the smack. At that point it's pretty much over, window or otherwise. All he has to do is cloak again and catch up to you whenever he feels like it. He can even turn invisible, stick around a nearby corner and wait 20 seconds for the person to stop running and looping, then rush up, uncloak, and get the down then.
I guess what I'm saying is this: There's very little actual counterplay (or even warning) against a character that's only visible when they're close enough to hit you, can move at a profoundly greater speed than you can, doesn't have any sight or sound penalties while invisible, is faster at lunging out of cloak than survivors are at running speed, AND can do all of this without even needing to use his bell anymore, which I assumed was the one thing that they gave the character to balance out all the rest of these tactics. The character just has too many things going for him, a combination of too many advantages. Bubba is slow but he has an insta-down saw. Huntress is of average speed but she's got crazy hatchets. Several characters can teleport and not much else. Wraith has invisibility, super speed, a fast lunge out of cloak, a lunge that's way faster and covers more ground than any other character, AND silence. That's just too much to me. No player should have to stock up on a Wraith defense kit or pray that gens are near windows and strong loops just to have an adequate chance against one specific killer out of two dozen. Do you get where I'm coming from?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455425#Comment_2455425
No, I actually didn't used to have any unique feelings about facing Wraith just like I still don't have any unique feelings about facing roughly 75% of the roster. Sometimes I'd win, sometimes I'd lose, and - at the time at least - I didn't have the issue of most Wraith players camping while invisible. In other words he felt like just another killer, no better or worse than most of the others. He felt as fair and balanced as many of the other killers.
What suddenly changed wasn't even popular opinion or any kind of announcement (I don't follow social media so I usually don't know about changes unless I read about them here), it was a match against him when he wasn't using the bell. It totally threw me, I actually really liked the concept of the character having these huge crazy paranormal advantages yet all of them being totally balanced by the guy having to almost literally stand still and bang his bell to let you know that he was coming. In this match, that wasn't happening. I was running around the Red Forest, wondering why I hadn't seen or heard the killer in a couple of minutes, then suddenly I see him uncloak out of the corner of my eye and BOOM, he flies over and hits me. I was utterly confused. Where was the bell?
My only reasonable assumption, based on the speed of his lunge and the fact that he managed to play the entire match in total silence, thus negating virtually all natural defenses that survivors of this game are given, was that someone was hacking him. Nope, I then come to find out that eliminating his bell, nullifying the terror radius and turning his lunge attack into a super power was all intentional. I hated it. Sure enough, there's been a massive uptick in Wraith players since then, as well as an equal uptick in the amount of players who abuse his abilities (which is so easy to do I simply won't believe anyone who tries to claim that any other killer is easier to play cheap with). It rapidly escalated to the point that I utterly despise playing any match with him. I mean I truly hate it. I'd rather play ten Spirits in a row that one Wraith. A Wraith game isn't challenging, a Wraith game isn't fun. A Wraith game is spending the entire match in constant anxiety, wondering when he's going to suddenly show up next to you and end your game. I honestly don't even like playing as Wraith anymore because it's too easy, too cheap, and I legitimately feel bad for the survivors (many of whom still DC whenever I reveal myself).
This isn't just me and a handful of other people just being too inexperienced or not playing right. While I admit that such an element can and sometimes does play a factor, the fact is that the killer was given a lazy buff pass without any apparent regard to balance. My condolences go to anyone who felt that he was somehow in any way too worthless to ever bother using. But now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, and instead of celebrating that, I think that people need to be a bit more reasonable in understanding why this is a problem.
Yes, I get where you're coming from. Wraith was upon a time the weakest killer in the game.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455633#Comment_2455633
I play however I want, not breaking any rules. If they bring broken and toxic perks, knowing very well they are broken, just to ruin my game, I will try and ruin theirs.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455629#Comment_2455629
nope, why?
To say they brought it just to ruin your game is more than a little narcissistic.
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@Junylar said:
If I see one dead hard in the game, I begin tunneling hard and sometimes camping&slugging (if I can afford it), just to spite them. Dead hard is one of the most toxic and unfair perks which grants survivors several extra lives per trial for free. To me every dead hard is a spit in the killer's face, and every survivor picking it is doing so to bully the killer. Nothing more satisfying than seeing all those cocky dead hard users getting 4k'd and then wondering "why did you do it?????" in the end-game chat.
You're taking things way too seriously.
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No. I feel it should be reworked.
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Ultimately it's your choice. I don't do these things because I think they make for a boring game. I also don't do them because I think it makes the game a better overall experience. Will there be ######### no matter how I play? Sure, I just ignore them and move on.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453241#Comment_2453241
No killer should require a litany of failsafes just to counter them. No one should HAVE to use Spine Chill, and play with headphones, and always have a flashlight, and carry around portable windows, and somehow make generators spawn next to specific tiles, and never find themselves having to leave cover or cross a deadzone, and be spinning the camera 360 degrees through the whole match (while also trying to somehow focus on gens and everything else) in order to stand a chance (while also ignoring any teammate who gets hooked as well). I can't think of any other killer in this game that's given the free pass that Wraith gets. No other killer that everyone just waves off with "It's not his fault that he's cheap, it's the player's fault that they don't understand how to defend against a killer that can turn invisible and shoot through the map at 150 percent silently and get free hits at will". I'm not trying to target all of this toward you, I'm just sick of The Wraith Defense altogether. "He's not super cheap, he's somewhere between perfect and terrible. Survivors are just easily confused and helpless".
The Wraith has basically the same ability as Spirit but with no cooldown and none of her hindrances. I honestly don't understand how people can so casually defend that as not even slightly problematic.
You don't have to do all that to defend against him though. All you need to do is rotate your camera. Headphones help, but aren't required. You can hear him coming without them. His uncloak takes about 3 seconds. This is plenty of time to position yourself if a loop or window is nearby. If there isn't you'll get hit, but that's the same as any killer.
I get why alot of people don't like Wraith. Alot of Wraiths play super scummy. I have to disagree that his basekit is an issue though.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453356#Comment_2453356
I read the post and it changes nothing. Even if NOED got bubba another down how would that have changed anything if he had used his chainsaw instead? That bubba camped someone to death and got another kill using noed. He probably got nothing for that match.
People who play that way don't care about pips or points. They play to grief others.
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@EvilJoshy said:
NOED is fine. The problem is survivors don't want to counter it. So they come to the forums and cry. Hoping the devs will remove the perk. The last few patches there have been many buffs/perks to find totems.
Detective's hunch, small game now has a totem counter, Inner Str heals you if you cleanse a totem and hide in a locker. Pinheads perks inflicts a status affect until you cleanse a totem that you can see from like 16 meters. I secretly think the devs are trying to say "Cleanse da bones"
Did you read the OP? The situation they describe doesn't really have a counter. In general I feel noed is fine, but in that situation there's fuckall you can do.
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Head On and Pebble.
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@miketheratguy said:
In before someone says "he's fine" / "he's low B-tier" / "people just hate him now because he's not the worst killer in the game anymore" or something to that effect.
Honest talk: The Wraith has a lot of powers that are, on their own, reasonably advantageous. When put together, and then buffed, and then given even greater buffs through the form of add-ons, it becomes a little much. People say to "always be by a window". You can't always be by a window. People say "always bring a flashlight or run Spine Chill". Not everyone wants to do those things JUST in case they happen to encounter one specific killer. People say "play with headphones". It's not convenient or practical to always play this game with headphones. People say "just run to the nearest loop". The Wraith doesn't just hang out next to tiles waiting to be looped all day.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anything. I recognize that people provide suggestions like these in good faith. But what I think a lot of people don't understand is that if a survivor has to do any or all of these things just to have a decent chance against a killer who can rush up while invisible, uncloak, perform a super lunge for a free hit, then immediately recloak to catch right back up and do it a second time for the down, then I think it's a fair argument that it's the killer itself, not those who complain against him, that need closer inspection.
I'm not saying to totally nerf. I'm saying that maybe some of his powers can be reduced a bit, maybe given a cooldown, etc. His defenders need to understand that playing against the Wraith these days (especially in solo) basically boils down to "get rushed, give him the free hit, get rushed again, then wait to die on the hook while he invisibly camps nearby and / or does the exact same thing to the next person". I think the common argument that "he's still bad because he's just an M1 killer" deliberately overlooks the actual problems that people have when trying to deal with him.
He is fine though. Yes, sometimes you won't be in a position to counter him. That is the case with every killer though. The problem with Wraith is so many people don't understand how to counter him.
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@CornHub said:
That's the point. Why would survivors bother cleansing dull totems besides points?
Because it's fun. Also sweet sweet points.
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No, I'd love for them to go. The blood webs a full of trash that nobody uses.
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@GannTM said:
Please no
Why not?
@Huge_Bush said:
I want it base kit so I can see the world burn.
I don't think that would get it done, but you do you.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Everyone bashing this guy just shows how people are spoiled on solo queue. He's absolutely right, if you go down in a 10 second chase don't expect people to immediately let go of gens to save you.
My issue is he comes across as an arrogant sod. I don't question that finishing the gen is best. His entire attitude toward the person on hook is the issue. Add to that he doesn't know why the hook suicide is happening.
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Are people actually this ridiculous? If the timer is down to 25%, leave. 9 out of 10 times they're waiting for hatch.
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Something else in the match triggered them? Otherwise I have no idea. Oh, or it was @LordTony in disguise 🧐
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2426737#Comment_2426737
Psycho covered in blood with a creepy smile that throws knives sounds like a credible threat, tbh.
Looking at him I see a bad joke. He's creepy, but that isn't intimidating. Basically if I feel like beating their ass wouldn't be hard They got an uphill battle.
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@QwQw said:
Exactly! This is really starting to piss me off and I was considering making my own thread about it, but what is it with people on here gatekeeping the horror genre!?
The amount of threads and comments I've seen bashing killers like Trickster and Legion because they're not "scary" or "they're just ordinary humans" is astonishing. Just because they're not "big guy in mask" or "ugly deformed monster" doesn't mean they're not horror characters and that they shouldn't be in DbD.
And now, I've seen this same argument of "they're not scary" applied to other characters like Springtrap.
Horror can take all sorts of different shapes and forms. Just because you don’t find it scary doesn’t mean others won’t and that the character is any less of a horror icon.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2426510#Comment_2426510
I'm pretty sure the Cennobites come out of the Tv or something. I'm not that sure, as I've never seen Hellraiser myself.
I need to buy them as a credible threat. Somebody like Trickster doesn't remotely fit that bill.
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@BioX said:
Whiney Spammy new threads like these dont help your/their cause tbh, you hereby are participating in this "War" you imply should not exist, you could have just answered or replied to one of the many many many threads already but no, you made a new one....
I have no issue with Sidney Prescott or Frank West being added either, its just the entitled whiney spammy spoiled brads that keep replying with that request like a bot on every post that BHVR makes on twitter that makes me hate it and never want to see them, you cannot reward that behavior. and the same goes for this sadly.
(though in all honestly im not that passionate about it, I dont care either way, FNAF cannot be added though due to the creator's actions but I digress)
Well there was your mistake. Lol looking at things on Twitter.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2423462#Comment_2423462
The game's WIN CONDITIONS are killing or escaping. The emblem system is a grade based on what you did in the match. You don't 'win' by getting all Iris and you don't 'fail' by getting all Bronze.
You win by escaping or killing.
You lose by dying.
The Killer's win/loss is more of a sliding scale of HOW MANY he killed. One could say he 'barely wins' at 1 kill to 'completely wins at 4' and only 'loses' at 0.
But the game's win conditions, as programmed into the game, are killing and escaping. This is a hard fact; the Killer does not 'win' if he tortures everyone to 2 hooks and 12 downs each, and then they all escape.
According to whom? Is their a magical win/loss tally screen I'm not aware of? As far as I'm aware there is no official win/loss condition.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2425567#Comment_2425567
DBD Forums Moment. Full of elitists who love shutting people down.
Even the DBD Reddit isn't this bad.
After your 403rd discussion about DH, BT, DS, and the like you tend get less inclined towards politeness.
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Honestly that's largely because the killer emblems feel into one another. So you're constantly fill two plus emblems at a time.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2425480#Comment_2425480
Yeah. That’s why I said ‚fair enough‘. But it is also a reasonable argument against current matchmaking and for a change in the system.
Oh agreed. I'm just pessimistic about the results.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2425467#Comment_2425467
Fair enough. But then we are still stuck with current emblem/rank based matchmaking. Which is bad AND doesn’t work properly.
I know. They asked for a valid argument against it. It seems a pretty reasonable one.
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@Orion said:
It's not.
Most of the FNAF threads come from a tiny percentage of people, and are often made by new accounts that have never posted anything before and rarely - if ever - post anything again. Furthermore, the responses in those threads are overwhelmingly against the idea.
It's a loud minority, that's all.
Summed it up perfectly.
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My only concern is that it won't work properly and, let's be honest, BHVR's track record is dicey at best.
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@TwitchyMike said:
This game is arguably survivor sided as it should be. And I can see points to both sides of killer and survivor arguments about balance. But at the end of the day this game is Survivor favored and anytime I see someone talking about ways to nerf a killer or anything that benefits the killer I am somewhat confused. Do survivors just want the easiest time going up against the killer? I personally think a lot of relativity and perception goes into this next paragraph as to why survivors would think killers are OP but here it is.
If survivors don't escape they "Lost" Now in my opinion if you escape as a survivor that should be just as hard as a killer getting a 4k. From someone who plays both Killer and Survivor pretty equally I can safely say when I escape it's the same feeling as getting a solid 4k in DBD. Now that's my opinion. I personally am better at this game playing killer but still equally enjoy playing as survivor.
So for those hard core survivor players please help me understand the complaints about killers.
Both sides complain about things they don't like. Which is fine. Where your argument falls down to me is saying survivors just want easy matches. That is not the case. They want fun matches.
As for the game being survivor sided, sure. If you're talking about the highest levels of play. If you're looking at the average game then it favors killers.
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Yes, it is pretty unbalanced. Some of those adept were very painful to get.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2413292#Comment_2413292
No, it's part of the game. That's like going into an FPS and saying 'It's really entitled you want to score that 50th point. You already won at 49 points; just let the clock run out.'
The sheer entitlement of Survivors 'You got 3 kills; going for 4 is entitled! 🤪' Rofl. So many BS rules and expectations Survivor mains heap on Killers. Don't camp. Don't slug. Don't tunnel. Be happy with a 3K. Always let the 4th Survivor go.
This is the only game I've ever played where one side has literally invented an entire playbook they expect their opponents to follow, and then demand the devs alter the game to enforce it.
Your analogy doesn't really work her. In you're scenario there's a set timer and therefore you trying to rake up the score doesn't was anyone's time. Slugging for the 4k does.
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Always cleanse them.
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I have to disagree. The activation conditions are too specific for it to be good. If they change it to finish healing another survivor then it would be decent.
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If we got two survivors I'd like him and Megan Garris.
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Stop stealing my stuff and I won't complain about it anymore.
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I always felt Jane sounded like she was enjoying the trial a bit too much.
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I love Wraith because with his buffs he feels like a proper predator. He can move swiftly from target to target taking his prey off guard.
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It's why I gave the game a chance.
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That would be cool.
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It's not a bad perk, but there are so many better options It's usually a bad idea to run it.
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@GamerEzra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2401206#Comment_2401206
But then what's the point of using pop?
Then the total still comes out at 25%.
I understand that pop shouldn't reduce by 50%.
I think damage without perks should be 5%, with brutal strength maybe an additional 5%, and when you add pop you damage 35% i think that's pretty fair.
(standard 5% + brutal strength 5% + pop 25% / 5+5+25=35%)
The point would be to allow more flexibility in builds. Pop would see a decline in use, but why would that be bad? If killers don't feel like they have to use gen regression perks they could try out fun builds without getting steam rolled.
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@Gaffy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2400765#Comment_2400765
Or just don't nerf pop? Stop nerfing killer things just because they get something better?
@GamerEzra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2400888#Comment_2400888
Agree!
Why should they buff killers and nerf their perks, great idea!😂
Because changes like that make killers less reliant on specific perks. Personally I'd make it 10% at base and nerf pop to 15%. Of course I'm also a guy who thinks Brutal Strength should add extra gen damage as well.
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@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
Myth: All Bubbas facecamp
Truth: While the multiple downs per chainsaw attack are possible after unsafe unhooks most Bubba mains don't need to rely on this
I have to disagree. At least with the idea it isn't most Bubba's. There is a reason this stereotype exists.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2401154#Comment_2401154
That's what every Survivor who has accused me of 'proxy camping' was doing. I would walk away, come back if someone was unhooked, and be accused of 'proxy camping'.
Then they're idiots not using the correct term. If you go for the fresh unhook then you're tunneling, not proxy camping. If you go for the rescuer that's just playing the game.
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My current build is, Corrupt Intervention, Bbq, Surge, and Nurse's.
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Detective's Hunch gives the best information while Small Game has no conditions to be useful. Counter Force is only useful for the speed boost. Personally I'd always take Detective's Hunch over the others.
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@Power_Guy said:
'Proxy camp' is such a BS term. It was invented to claim a Killer is camping, even if he does not camp, I'm sure of it. I'm sure it went something like this:
*Killer hooks Survivor* 'I'm walking away from the hook. I am not camping. Don't complain."
*Killer walks away.*
*Survivor #2 unhooks Survivor #1*
*Survivors start healing under the hook.*
*Killer returns* *Killer downs Survivors*
End Game Chat:
Survivors: Reee! You camped!
Killer: I left the hook, kicked a gen, and went hunting for Survivors when you got unhooked. You were half-way healed by the time I got back to the hook. I WAS ACROSS THE MAP!
Survivor: You...You PROXY camped! Same thing!
Killer: 🤦♂️
If you're going to call it a bs term, at least define it right. That is not proxy camping.
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All it does is offset the gen speed penalty. Without that it does absolutely nothing.