tariousx
tariousx
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@carnage4u said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1715356#Comment_1715356
I would think a large portion of survivors would lose a mode with no killers anyway. Just rush those Gens and leave as fast as possible. that is how 50% or more games go anyway. really the killer is the stupid part of this game to most people. Lets just get rid of it.
Been saying this for years lol. Im pretty sure if you removed the killer from the game, the forums would be swamped with people complaining there isnt anyone to bully, tbag, or degrade after the game is over.
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1. Remove OoO. Period. Give Laurie something else.
2. Crafting/Item and Addon selling
3. For the love of god, buff the original 3 Killers, they deserve better!
4. Passives, both sides. Nothing too extreme. Give survivors a reason to play different ones.
5. Alternate game mode. Just 1. Make it juat a random chance to get that or classic mode. No que splitting.
6. Meta Shake up. Kill all the band aide fixes or strive to anyways. Gen speed, Gen slow down, etc.
Can you imagine a DBD where Killers dont need slow down, Survivors can do all the things and more, get the points, be chased and maybe die maybe not and everyone still feel rewarded? I have a dream...
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@MeneLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/202272/why-is-billy-not-as-popular-as-he-once-was
Son, no one care about heat limiter, or whatever the.... They broke him when they obliterated the insta-saw, cuz of that is less popular now.
Absolutley not. Maybe for some, but some of the best billys i ever seen were addon less or only used white addons. He was actually more fun to plag AGAINST before because you had to make reads on when he was about to saw or not. Felt so much more satisfying to make good reads against him before. But now hes 0 mind game. Roars to let you know when to dodge. ######### for turning, 0 skill when you are suppressed by the game.
I guess they just wanted the OG 3 to be bottom tier. Gj your original ideas are taking a backseat to other peoples ideas. (Liscened Killers)
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So many games do this now, this is just to help promote the people that promote them. Sorry to say but there's nothing wrong with it.
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1708990#Comment_1708990
I don't mean any of this toward you because I know you don't make these decisions, but this is low. I'm extremely disappointed right now. The consumers deserve better then this, BHVR.
Why are so many people referring to shards as money? Not defending the actions at all, really bad move on BHVR's part, made my jaw drop ngl. But seriously, if youre saying they just need to treat the players better that works, but so many people are acting as if they paid money for these shards. You did pay in time, and you cant get that back, so being upset about that is completely justified.
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Irritating, but it's w.e. DBD is one of the only games I know of where you can play flawlessly or near flawlessly and still lose.
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@SasukeKun said:
BHVR's silence regarding survivor-sided balancing
The game is widely regarded to be Survivor sided by many people for a long time now. Why hasn't BHVR addressed this?
And moreover, why haven't they even tried to *deny* it?
It seems like they are avoiding the subject of the Survivor-sided balancing completely. Why?
I'm not out here calling conspiracy theories, but this is honestly really suspicious. The game has been in this state for a long time. Most recently they even nerfed Thanatophobia after saying they were going to buff it. They were so conservative with the changes. Why?
Many killers are significantly better than others too, to a very obvious extent. Just look at the difference between Spirit and Legion, or Oni and Clown. Why won't BHVR buff the weaker killers? Why won't they make the game harder for survivors?
And again - why do they avoid all communication on this topic every time it's discussed?
EDIT: someone else mentioned these things not me but are great points imo
not to mention the camo $$$ cosmetics
Money, money, money. There are sooo many survivor only players. If they balanced the game more fairly it could jeopardize their largest part of the player base and lose money. They make these changes and hide the reasoning for it behind the word "unfun". Granted some changes are nice, but the ones that raise eyebrows are always justified with the "unfun" word. You'll start to notice that posts made by anyone will use the "unfun" word to try and get the devs attention.
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@goatslinger said:
Yes, please focus your attention on a perk that is barely ever used. And screw your stats. This perk is insanely OP. Please ignore how odd it is that the perk is so strong and broken but yet such a small number of people use it.
Also, great job with undying. Ruin/undying has made the game healthy again.
Small number? I see it about every other game at rank 1, sometimes multiple in 1 game. It's used more now than ever.
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The people that argue that this game isn't competitive prolly have like 2k+ hrs, run all meta perks, and tbag at gates js. Just another way to say gg ez.
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Second thread with the same subject. Really?
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You know its just bait and ######### posting when the OP says something then never replies on their own thread. Smh.
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I used to love playing him, but he feels as has been said, different. They took away alot of the skill from him like being able to do the crazy curves. Overheat is just dumb, he already is easy to dodge and if you force him to M1 hes has no power. Hes absolutley destroyed. And it kinda makes me sad cause hes 1 of the OG. He has addons now which are a detriment to him as well. Slightly increased charge time to become chainsaw Huntress... really? The roar is for survivors who dont look behind them to know when to do a random 120 degree turn to dodge as well.
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@Hex_Stalk said:
These are things I've heard so take them with a grain of salt. If these end up happening well, I guess you can read the title of this post.
1: Halloween skins will not be earnable, instead they will have to be bought.
2: There is no difference from the last event. Same as always, just a slight bloodpoint boost.
3: The new survivor add on can be used whenever the player wants after the event has ended, but the killer is limited to during the event ONLY. (Devs, your bias is showing)
If there are any I missed then this event will be a bigger joke than I thought.
Jokes on BHVR cause they wont be getting a dime out me skins or no skins. Theres money going at them from folks with paid exp and paid passes. Not to mention the whales that buy every new cosmetic that gets dropped. Not paying for individual cosmetics everytime they drop. Thats loony.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1689925#Comment_1689925
I said Haddonfield is one of the most fun maps as Killer AND survivor.
@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1689927#Comment_1689927
10 Times? Well that sounds more like your fault just use our ability or some perks.
Just no. Hold W Meta, is so strong on this map. The pointless houses that you cant go into are terrible. Litterally can go around those 2 maybe three times if theres a decent pallet or a cheeky vault nearby. I play both sides and it feels so awful as killer and feels too easy as survivor and i always pity the killer. Then theres the chance The Great Wall of Laurie can spawn and those are just ridiculous. The safe house isnt the new iteration either. Basement house can bad at times if against balanced and good loopers but not always. Just alot of just out of date crap on that map.
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The takeaway here is OoO is stupid. Plz rework soon. And TTV folks will tbag and bring SWATdettes and harass you all day long, for those delicious views, because toxicity and ragequit content is like attracting flies with crack laced sugar. Even though they prolly only got like 15 viewers. (Not all do ofc. Disclaimer)
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686798#Comment_1686798
I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt. This happens every single time the DC penalties get put back in place. Suddenly there are just tons of people saying that it isn't them disconnecting, it is the game crashing. The minute the penalties are taken out (usually because of some hacker) those statements mysteriously vanish. The benefit of my doubt died a LONG time ago. The vast majority of disconnects are because people are bad sports. The odd crash of the internet or a real life emergency is perfectly understandable. And if those things happen, a short ban isn't a problem because your already tied up.
Now if you have a PATTERN of regular, real life emergencies or your internet keeps going down, I suggest you stop playing until you get your affairs sorted. Insisting on playing when you have an unstable system, bad internet, or a constant stream of real life emergencies would make you an inconsiderate person, who is choosing to waste the time of other Players. Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
I am and I totally see where you're coming from man. I agree with the irony of it.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686781#Comment_1686781
The last thing I want is for me and my MoM, breakout and empathy friends to be punished because a killer didn't get their precious 4K :(.
This game isn't competitive, nor will it ever be, people should stop trying to make it that way.
You say this, but you're prolly guilty of running meta perks at some point. As am I, as is a ton of people. The game has become competitive, if it hasn't then people would cry out when something is "broken" or OP. You wouldn't see people talking about Gen speeds, SWF, Mori, Key's etc. the player base has made it competitive. There is Ranks, there is MMR now. Players asked for this, it becomes more a competitive game all the time.
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@skynightjourney said:
With the new cosmetics coming out for Halloween I was wondering what everyone’s favorite cosmetics are for both killer and survivor? For killer I love the blights sophisticated slaughter outfit (even though I’m abysmal with him) and for survivor I’d have to say Scoops Ahoy Steve!
The additional Jake cosmetics that they haven't added to the game yet :(
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@Ghoste said:
There's nothing like having the last Survivor dead to rights and letting them live to tell the tale. Really I just enjoy being a good sportsman and seeing thanks in the chat instead of hate. I don't always show mercy, but if a Survivor has a funny moment or memes around with me a bit (like head nodding or booping the snoot), it just feels good to let them go.
Any other hatch givers out there?
I used to, but noone ever gives me a free hook so no.
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@dugman said:
Swf isn’t cheating. Even the devs play in swfs in their streams, it’s clearly an intentional feature of the game that they expect a lot of people will play with their friends on comms.
The devs are protato, compared to the monsters out there. Js.
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Money, gotta pump out that paid dlc. Everything else take a back seat. Prolly see it reworked in some unknown mid chapter patch in late 2021.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686776#Comment_1686776
Care to revise your BS statement? It is amazing how much people are suddenly CRASHING all the time now that DC penalties are back. Strange coincidence. I've never had a single crash since installing this game. However am I bucking those odds. Quit disconnecting and play the game.
What? I was simply saying if its REALLY an issue to troubleshoot first, giving benefit of the doubt. I'm all for the penalty its good. What are you on about?
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Was dc's counted? Who knows? Was the time frame given? This will be every nerf "Insert something killer related here" that has no merit post. Needed nerfs should still happen but this will be the fall guy.
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If people are genuinely crashing so much that DC Penalty is an issue, you need to troubleshoot everything on your end first before coming here making a "Remove" post. Check your net, check your ports, repair your game, reinstall your game. Stop dl-ing "Free" adult material via torrents... that ones a bit of a joke. But seriously there are so many other reasons that you could be crashing besides DEVS!!! I know console has had trouble but there is still things that you can check first.
DC Penalty is improving the quality of games.
So open a ticket or something or try some troubleshooting first, otherwise you'll come off as a flaming ragequitting addict coming up in here making these posts. And make sure you include what you have already tried, it can actually help people help you.
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@Axe said:
Nope after almost having 4k hours I gave up on this toxic community and embraced myself to become *that* type of killer.
I rather have a fun experience then force myself to play friendly just so 4 strangers will have a fun experience
I will tunnel if I need to, I will slug if I need to, I will camp if I need to, I will force a 3 gen if I need to.
This alllll day. If you wanna really have fun playing killer you gotta just play for yourself. Sure you might let one go every now and then like when 2 dc or something w.e. But here's the thing, I can promise you that most Survivors aren't worrying about if you are having a fun game. "Show no mercy, for you shall receive none" lol. Gl out there.
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People who rely on the same busted loops every game will not like the change because they would rather not adapt and would prefer to run the same brainless loop that has 2 god pallets 99% of the time. Breakable walls are a great dynamic. Perhaps a new item added to the game like a crowbar that survivors can use to break down 1 or 2 of them would be a fun new mechanic that could be added.
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Advice for killer? Become a masochist.
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Cthulhu Cultist, ritualistic killer.
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@Victor_hensley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394296#Comment_1394296
Ah yes...Coming up with a conclusion without a second of thought. You're a very trustworthy person.
Excuse me? I was just going off of what the post said? This is a forum for a game where we are all are talking to strangers mostly, I shouldn't have a reason to second thought anyone here. If the post says A I will react to A not sit and stew over a forum post.
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@SamuraiDragon27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394286#Comment_1394286
VERY good choices. I have a lot of these teachable. In fact the only one I don’t have is inner strength, which is on the bucket list. Btw, have you tried MoM and breakout? I’m trying to get yui’s teachables, and have had fun using the build: sprint burst, breakout, mettle, and...sigh, self care. I know it’s a bad perk, but for a build mainly focused on taking hits, it helps
Don't think I was throwing shade for talking smack about SC :)
Its just that it takes so long to heal yourself, it takes longer than normally healing a Sloppy Hit i think. You're better off bringing a Med-Kit is the only reason I think what I think. When it steals from precious Gen time or saving. I used to run it for a long time but just decided hey if I wanna heal ill bring kit or Inner.
But No I haven't tried that combo yet, I've heard things but have not tried just yet and now I think I will lol Thanks for the tip my friend!
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Sadly it has been this way for a long time now.
I'm literally waiting 15 min+ and find myself here atm.
BH have made it clear SWF is not going anywhere and will likely not see any change due to the fact they are trying to bring solo players up to that level. They've stated once they have attained something they're satisfied with across solo and SWF they will make "changes" as necessary.
They also love to reiterate how this game is not at all competitive.
If you take a Pizza and you fold it over, hand it to someone and call it a cal-zone, it is still a pizza lol
It's possible if they finally embrace the idea that this is a competitive game we could see somethings change. But for now, try to find you a good build that you keep in your back pocket for sweaty SWF and have fun that's whats most important.
I'm rank 1 and I still get pounded by 4 man death squads from time to time because I didn't play sweat spirit or I chose to play trapper and got Lampkin Lane (Killer's Bane).
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1392123#Comment_1392123
The OP edited the post to change that they were originally claiming they were going to DC to claiming that they were going to lobby dodge.
Ahh, if that's the case 100% scummy. If you commit to the match, aka make your bed then lay in it.
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Favorite Perks:
BBQ: Not for auras, PHENOMENAL BLOODPOINT POWAH
Inner Strength: So intuitive, so much better than Self Care ever thought about being.
STBFL: This just feels so good when you get up between 6-8 Stacks
Mettle of Man: Before nerf, Yes completely OP, however, was a ton of fun to use
Were Gonna Make It: Delicious fast heals, feels nice
Trail of Torment: This new perk is alot of fun to use, makes new possibilities turning any killer into a stealth killer for a few seconds is fun
PGTW: Kinda boring but it feels nice to get that piece of candy after that chase you just won
Just a few here...
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@Tjiani said:
So... now that the killes have proven they are NOT going to play fair during this event, I Think We should agree That during the next event there is no reason to make things easy on the killers. I swear to God this is the worst event ever. Killers bringing in Their worst builds, Moris, tunneling and camping. You do realise They made it easy for you to get the crown so there was a chance you would play fair?
i Think during next event you should make it so all 4 survivors need to be hooked for the killer to get the event-item. i really Think it’s a ######### behavior and it kind of shows who the real toxic people here are.. Think about that next time you sit and whine about how toxic survivors are.
I believe the only way to not play fair is to break TOS, cheat, or team. So already, this is invalid. Moris are in the game. Camping permitted, Tunneling permitted. Survivors have been bringing keys into my games more. Just been dealing with it but saying w.e. It's not everyone and its not unfair. May be unfun, but until BH does stuff with keys and moris and literally starts sucking away BP for camping well, I don't know what to tell you.
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Reality is no matter what you do people will be toxic... but... choosing not to reciprocate that toxicity is what takes true character. In turn, you play fair and try to have fun and folks are still toxic they are the only ones that really look sad. And maybe, just maybe, if it happens enough, they'll start to reflect on themselves.
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Did I miss something? These guys saying "enjoy your ban", they do realize the OP never said DC from started games right? Lobby dodging before the game starts is not punishable.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1392088#Comment_1392088
Yes, I know. On the other hand, if the skill gap is big enough, you can effectively 1v1 the killer. A rank 4 should've easily been able to steamroll a rank 12, if both players were at the ranks that reflected their skill.
Regardless on if that's true,the point is, matchmaking needs fixed. But "Tale as old as time, Song as old as rhyme"...
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1392060#Comment_1392060
Arguably the fact that OP was killed by a rank 12 killer proves that either the rank 12 killer is much better, or that the OP shouldn't be at rank 4.
It is not a 1v1 game. It is 1v4 and I think people always forget that.
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@LethalPugy said:
What great communication you’ve given to the dev team.
I love how positive you are. 😍😍
Whats to communicate?
And why would this warrant positivity?
Waiting 15 min at times for games then only getting matched with folks way outside your skill and rank is not fun. Not at all. It's very irritating and makes people not want to play the game. The absolute opposite of whats needed.
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@Deadnaught said:
Actually I agree with OP as a Killer main. I refuse to use NOED and consider any killer that uses it to be a bad killer.
It's a crutch that allows you to instadown when the survivors get gens done, when if you're GOOD you should have already been taking them out all match. And the argument that survivors should be taking out totems is bad for two reasons:
1) Taking out totems merely prolongs gameplay which is unneccesary
2) Hex: Retribution now exists and makes it more risky to take out totems
The only counterarguments I can find in support of this is that Jake and Nancy players now actually have more usability for their builds, however I think we can all agree that no one brings a specific build into a match assuming that a killer is going to be running NOED.
Prolonging game play?
The game suffers enough from games being too quick.
I don't know about you but I like blood points...
I also think that you may not realize the underlying purpose of what totems are for, they are there for the Survivors to choose, to consciously make a decision to either:
A: Cleanse and get Gens done a minute or 2 later and not worry about Hex Perks or potential NOED
B: No Cleanse to complete objective faster but remain mindful of that choice to add potential fear or anxiety for that choice once they discover a sneaky NOED or Devour
Choices are a big factor in what drives interesting gameplay.
Choosing to cleanse or not to cleanse can change the game and is additional layer of challenge to the survivors which already suffer from some shallow gameplay. Do gens, save, run. Survivors need to have more to think about then M1 and Shift W imo.
You also state that no-one comes into a match with a specific build to I would assume counter NOED. This is a whole other can of worms that you just opened.
This game does not need hard counters. This game isn't supposed to be "have spreadsheet up on monitor 2 for all counters", like Overwatch. Hard counters to everything does not promote smart or skillful gameplay, learning to adapt on the fly is what makes games interesting. Good Killers and good Survivors do this almost every game. A good survivor will size up a killer and change their behavior accordingly and a good Killer does the same depending on the team.
There are some hard counters in the game currently, which is fine. But 75% of perks being designed to counter others would make this game into copy paste for everything. Yes there are meta perks but they do not specifically hard counter anything. They are just in general strong perks. Just as an example:
NOED: Counters non-cleansing survivors who may or may not rush gens, easily avoided or deactivated even after last gen pops
DS: Counters off hook tunneling... only sometimes and whether or not you think its anti tunnel or anti momentum
DH: Counters nothing, potentially prolongs a chase
BBQ: Promotes non camping behavior and offers incentive for doing so, soft countered by lockers, distance, or hiding behind gen auras
Adrenaline: Counters nothing save for maybe being slugged when last gen pops, provides Survivability
All of these have no real hard counters or provide no hard counters and are seen in most games. Yes they're are perks like Stridor vs Ironwill as that would fall under Hard Counters, but the instances of type of hard counter in the game is low to my knowledge. All just food for thought.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1240327#Comment_1240327
Not an issue at all. If survivors fall for Insidious, they are pepegas. It's really quite fun. Not a build I run often, but it's good for a laugh, since it's glaringly obvious when a killer has it.
Ahh I misunderstood you lol Yeah it definitely is fun to get someone as it is every once in a while.
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@McLightning said:
Insidious is fine where it is. Don't mess with my pepega benchmark tool.
But you see that's the issue lol
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/566258#Comment_566258
This would be terrible and would only encourage deranking.
The game needs a reason to rank up. A reward of some kind. The game wont be able to be balanced unless that happens first. Otherwise you'll be balancing around killers that should be rank 1 at rank 15 and visa-versa.
I agree with you but I almost fell that game already seems to encourge deranking given their is no incentive to rank up as well as the balance factors.
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@miaasma said:
if i can have fun playing wraith in red ranks then you can too
Its not every game, but it deff feels like most games. The only point Im trying to drive is balance for high ranks and rank incentive.
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The way i see it its like a business model, they fix stuff right before or slightly after they get some money from new content.
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Introduction: This is going to be a long post because I want to make all the arguments why for the health of the game looping, camping and tunnelling must go.
While I don't agree with your solutions entirely you are very correct in the fundamentals need work big time.
Not as a suggestion, but I did think 1 time what if once someone was hooked they got ripped into the ground or something by the Entity and popped up somewhere else on the map far away, and needed rescued but only survivors could see them or everyone could see them and decisions would have to be made about defending that person or going after someone else as killer. Killer main here but that could shake up mechanics a bit, but it doesn't address the Map design or the current loop meta that you're talking about.
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@jeyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/557769#Comment_557769
Mettle of Man - from a dlc costing money = destroyed perk now.
But from what i read ppl say only play surv if u can SWF wich makes sens ofc.
And i havent seen those pics showing the bp gain is about the same so please contribute and link them.
What you need to be upset about is the Devs releasing content without any consideration for balance. If it was in its current state when released, you wouldn't be making this post.
Now if you are on about the fact that you bought the perk in essence and they balanced it later and its OP anymore, well that's just Pay to Win and no one likes that.
And its not just Survivor, Freddy was nerfed to freaking floor and its taken them this long to even try and fix it.
Also Survivor players make up 4 times more player base, assuming everyone played just 1 role, so I can tell you right now siding with Killer's constantly isn't good for business that's why GF is still weak (red ranks) and pretty much all other killers are not viable against good survivors.
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That's without toolboxes at Rank 1. Thank you. My favorite part?
This speaks directly to my soul...
Further more you'll never see a Dev comment on anything of this material. I feel they're afraid of feeling the asymmetrical 4:1 ratio in their wallets if they even so much as talk about fundamental balance or game changes.
Gens have the potential to go way too quick. Most Killer kits and powers cant do anything about it at red ranks.
Yeah you'll have games where they don't from time to time, but when they do its like inserting needles into your eye sockets. Sadly, the Devs cant control how fast the Gens go other than repair speed, if they nerf Gen time its going to make the game really hard for new people and so on, so the only logical solution is secondary objectives, that maybe don't involve holding left click and occasionally pressing space for X seconds.
It doesn't help either that this game is not actively balanced. The Devs seem to do what appears to be "Balance Passes" So the game will go on in w.e state is stable regardless of balance and 6 months later some generic data will be pulled to attest to what should be balanced. Most games that are competitive or have gameplay that rests on a knifes edge like this game will usually see balance adjustments monthly until a good medium is achieved before adding more potentially busted ingredients into the mix, i.e. when MoM first released. Just thrown into and already unstable mix of game balance to just muck it up some more.
Ntm, alot of man power is going into cosmetics and all the new features, but they only have like 3 people working on map adjustments, and were not expected to see those for several more months.
I am personally excited for that stuff too, but I would greatly like to actually enjoy 75% of my matches up from 30% with what we currently have, then to get another Jane Romero skin every 2 weeks.
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Really frustrating to go against it. One second you're working on a generator, then you get grabbed out of nowhere. No real counter to it.
Hard counters for everything is terrible for gameplay. It promotes only 1 way of gameplay. Soft counters, in this example gen tapping, spine etc. are perfect for game balance. They offer an option but also promote and encourage skillful gameplay as they are not completely the answer but in how you use them. Relying totally on nerfs and hard counters will not grow you as a player or as a survivor. It will only water down the gameplay so much that this game will be reduced to spreadsheets as is the current state of games like Overwatch.
Saying that taking a perk isn't worth something as well shows that you have gotten used to using a particular set of perks as well. You are given the opportunity to take Iron Will, for example, one game but you may find its Spirit next game and then you wished you had taken it in hindsight. Making your builds flexible is a great way to be prepared for any situation. Not knowing what your up against is part of the game as well and another aspect which promotes skillful gameplay.
Beads while strong, can be countered to a degree as you can still here foot steps, see grass move, and birds fly, Gen Tap, Premo, Spine Chill and just being alert. Given this would be harder to detect on a map like Lery's, but every map is stronger for either side in one way or another.
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@ElusivePukka said:
Killer Meta is less static than survivors, partly because killers get their powers/abilities in addition to perks. Survivor is fun, it's just stale by comparison - people deviating from meta in higher ranks risk crippling their team.
Not necessarily, depends on their level of ability. TBH, for me, I like need DH, but there's people out there that will run no exhaustion perks and run the killer 10x as long as I ever will.