solidhex
solidhex
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@Mister_xD said:
Spirit.
most of them arent even good at the game, they just do the ultra skillfull and extremely exciting "im just gonna stand here for 10 seconds and if they go anywhere else i walk up to hit them, while if they stay at this loop ill go into a phase at an entirely unknown time to them so there is no way they can predict and dodge me" strategy (i refuse to call that a mindgame, sorry).
i run Spine Chill and i just outplayed a Spirit who tried this mindgame with me, she stood there for like 20 seconds. She tried that 3 times, then never chased me again for the rest of the match because thanks to Spine Chill i could tell exactly when she began to phase around
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Nurse by far, they don't care if they only get 15k BP because the match was over after 3 minutes, the most important thing is to end it as quick as possible and show everyone that you're sooooo good and nearly unbeatable with Nurse...
Blight usually plays with sweatiest perks, but lately i also saw a lot of Nemesis' who played scummy and sweaty.
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Whenever i play killer i feel the same, but whenever i play survivor i swear, the killer always gets good totem spots and i get teammates that don't search for ruin or don't do dull totems and then complain about noed.
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@A_Skinny_Legend said:
Ikr such a joke. That claudette I just unhooked decides to run away for safety I guess instead of letting me heal her, the killer is no where near us. Like, I'm not following you around. Goodbye lol. The best part is when they come running back, usually.
With intellectuals like that, who needs a killer? I'm sure they'd find a way to die anyway.
i've seen so many players dying because they thought it's a good idea to heal right under the hook, especially against stealth or high mobility killers. It's another story if you use perks (Botany, We'll make it) or items or if you're completely sure the killer is on the other side of the map and has something else to do, but its generally not a bad idea to go around a corner and out of plain sight. When i play killer and i'm not very far away and i found no one else, i will go back to hook after the unhook and search for you.
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@ReikoMori said:
There is no perfect balance for this game or any game. What balance exist is based on two people dying and two people living which by some miracle that seems to have been kept barring the Dark Times:tm: when killing people was rare and killers turning on the game was even rarer.
It would be nice to have more time in general to just play the game. You spend so much time in lobbies waiting only to get into a game that is basically who dumpsters who. It sucks. You can't even really feel super comfortable about learning a new killer unless they are strong by default cause you're not gonna be in game long enough to even feel anything out. A lot of us have played a lot of hours over the years, but the amount of people who can just pick up any killer and just go at it is pretty small.
Most of the time it feels like the moment you start going up in rank consistently on a killer a lot of fun get sucked out of the game. You get to a point where trying new things in your build are interesting at the cost of bp, rank if you care about that, and some of your sanity when you're just getting games where it's either you getting wrecked or people just lining up to be on hooks.
Game needs spicing up. Or at very least give a mode that's purely for fun. Like All random survivor killer. You get a random killer or survivor, random perks and no starting items or add-ons for both sides. You just play with what you get as killer and survivors can still open chests and find items.
great idea, while it would make the game even more random than it already is (and therefore probably more frustrating sometimes), you wouldn't see the same old 10 perks every game, it would spice it up. It would be more about your general skill and how you adapt to things and not so much about crutches like OP add-ons for killers and second chance/exhaustion perks for survivors
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i played it for the first time right now and it was the first loss as killer for me since they turned off MMR.
I'm all against bashing the devs for everything but #########? What where they thinking? I was literally running into dead ends multiple times and couldn't find a way out. I've played the old RE2 many times as a teenager but i couldn't find my way to the gens, while the survivors obviously could. How can anyone think that this is a great map design (from a gameplay standpoint, not visual). Nearly everyone i play with hates Midwich and the feedback for the map on this forum was bad (from a gameplay standpoint), and they just do the same but even worse, at least midwich has some kind of logic and symmetry, this map just feels like a random maze.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2352342#Comment_2352342
Yea, he's free, he's always been pretty average,now he's pretty strong, the more shocking one for me (pun not intended) is Doctor being 3rd.
i saw doctor nearly every third game in 2020, but right now they're not common anymore (fortunately).
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During the event, when there are cakes or BPS in the game, or some survivors obviously need a crown, i do various things to make the game fun for everyone. Sometimes i just 2 hook everyone and then let them escape, sometimes i give one survivor hatch who found the crown, sometimes i "simulate" killing them by downing everyone and then let them wiggle off and escape. It depends on how much gens have been made, i hate farming and i won't watch them doing 5 gens, so...
When there is no event i either try to end it quickly so everyone can move on to a better game (sometimes with giving hatch if i think someone has earned it) or i go for 12 hooks and try out some tactics and tricks that i wouldn't try in a close match.
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I think we're at a point right now where it starts getting too much. The grind for new players is hardcore, the amount of stuff you have to learn (killer powers, perks, add ons, maps) is awful, you have to consider that there is a bad matchmaking which pairs new players with seasoned ones, this makes the experience not very fun especially for the new players. I think slowing down and reworking older stuff (which they already do) would be better. Unfortunately, people in 2021 are so used to steady content that every creator thinks they have to water down their game with a constant flow of new stuff - imho a huge misconception.
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Those stats are worthless to make conclusions from them.
The escape rate in the first years was much higher because the game was completely different from what we're used to see now. Look at the last released statistics, kill rate for some killers was at ~60-65%, and i would put my hands into fire that it has gotten more for some killers over the last year (DS nerf, map changes, killer reworks). Killers win definitely more games than they lose right now, the only thing that killers still can't compete with are squads with 4 good survivors (on comms), but against any other (solo) squad the killer has an advantage, matchmaking is also a factor here.
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"misandrist" because the majority expects female characters to look good and sexy and males not? LOL of course...
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@hiken said:
the nerf to stridor wasnt wrong anyway because the only playeres who used stridor in majority (huge omega majority) were spirits so no other killer was getting hurt by this, if any spirit. but of course they need to cahnge her base kit and addons tweak them down considerably.
That's not how things should work. Stridor is useless now, one of the reasons to use it was countering Iron Will, that's it. Even as Spirit, it's detrimental against non-IW users most of the time. It definitely needs a rework or something, to make it useful for other killers. Make the radius where you can hear noises bigger or something like that, that would be an actual useful perk.
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@NekoTorvic said:
Ruin, Pop, Tinkerer, BBQ + Alchemist Ring + Blighted Crow for me is the nuclear Blight option. Reserved exclusively for dealing with the sweatiest groups. Oh don't forget you have to slug at 5 gens, put your hooked survivors close to the area you patrol and if they show you they don't have DS, tunnel them into oblivion.
I remember I dealt with a group of 3 who took 2 red keys and a hatch offering. They got one gen done all game, because I played with this build and playstyle I described. Most of the time they were scrambling trying to pick each other up.
Currently tho, I'm using BBQ, Tinkerer, Enduring and Agitation, and slug for pressure as soon as possible. I've come to realize that dealing with most teams unless they're seriously weak, is about being as ruthless as you can at the start and then winding down once you've secured your victory. Also slugging is a surefire way to get people off gens and bring them into the area you're controlling so you can start doing damage.
"winding down once you've secured your victory"
so much fun when the killer plays like a dick against a random solo squad but then suddenly shifts the pace after tunneling out 1 or 2 persons. Just end it quick instead of dragging out a needless game for everyone to the max. Survivors know when the game is over for them, most just stop doing gens and start looking for keys or hatch, so most of those games are extremely boring, especially if the killers suddenly plays slowly. But hey, as long as the killer feels good about himself everything is alright i guess.
There really was a change in power dynamics over the last year, killers have the upper hand now against most of the usual survivor teams, but they still act like they're getting bullied every game and need to do this and that, because 1 out of 10 games they don't 4k.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Edit
Look at these for example:
https://i.redd.it/p3rpmw1kesf51.jpg
To me this is an upgrade. While still keeping some of their signature characteristics.
For me it's not an upgrade, most of them look like generic movie stars without personality. Not all survivors need to fit to beauty standards, i would like them to look like next-door-human beings. Nea and Meg don't look authentic anymore. I'm ok with making the licensed characters look like their counterparts but making their faces more detailled or realistic doesn't mean making all of them very beautiful.
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EU Steam, can't find a lobby
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@Okapi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2333772#Comment_2333772
- 4 bad survivors in SWF have more opportunities to do better than 4 bad solo survivors.
- 4 average survivors in SWF have more opportunities to do better than 4 average solo survivors.
- 4 good survivors in SWF have more opportunities to do better than 4 good solo survivors.
The point is SWF + VC is amazing, and it doesn't matter if a few people are sooo bad they still lose even with it.
There are killers who still lose when playing Spirit or Blight with BBQ, Ruin, Tinkerer. and Stridor, but that doesn't mean it isn't a strong set up.
"...if a few people are sooo bad they still lose even with it."
You're exaggerating. I never said that VC isn't better, i just said it isn't that one big difference in the games that some killers claim it to be. There are so many casual players out there, all the comms and information won't help them if they do basic mistakes in chases. A random survivor squad will not suddenly be unbeatable because they may tell each other where the ruin totem is. Besides that, most teams are not sweating that hard (splitting up on gens, going for bodyblocks, constantly calling out the position of the killer). At least not from my experience. If it would be like that, no killer would win games anymore. I haven't lost a single killer game since they turned off MMR (i only did ~30 matches since then) at rank 1-2 and the reason for this is the matchmaking and the balancing issues. The killer side gained an advantage above your casual solo team which leds to heavy DC-fests, but he has a disadvantage to 4 good survivors (on voice comms) without weak link. That's the issue.
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It's mostly the lack of skill which differentiates solo and swf. The best team i've ever played with for a while played without comms. You could use every pallet because you knew that there are 3 people on 3 different gens right now. They all had so much game sense and experience and were decent loopers. And they were sweaty. The killer could only stop us if we got to arrogant or made mistakes in quick succession.
On the other side, i played on comms with mediocre survivors and while there are surely some advantages to playing solo, i don't think it's like "swf with voice comm -> 100% escape rate" - as some people want to believe. We got 4k'ed a lot by decent killers.
I think strong survivors add other strong survivors on Steam etc. because they're fed up with the solo experience and want to play with reliable teammates. It's not so much the voice comms that make the difference i think, even if they're necessary on absolutely highest skill level (tournaments).
Besides that, most people i know rarely play in 4-mans, there are mostly 2 or 3 people in a swf.
But yeah, solo is still the worst dbd experience, by far.
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From my Wraith main perspective:
Silent Bell isn't that super-strong, it's only really effective if you can uncloak behind a high wall or something. In the open it's useless, survivors see the noticeable animation or hear the "burning" sound when you're close. I think the yellow Bone Clapper is even stronger, because survivors will hide in fear, leave gens and waste time if they hear you.
Purple All seeing is very strong, his best add-on. If you uncloak behind a wall and you can see where the survivor is heading after hearing your bell, it gives you so much advantage. I rarely use it because it doesn't feel like i outplayed the opponents, but the add-on did. But i equip it if i think i'm facing a very strong swf. It carries a lot of Wraith's right now i think (from what i've seen while playing survivor). A nerf or rework would be ok for me.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
Nobody is under any obligation to play how you want regardless of the offerings brought or not
The sooner you realize that and accept it, the less frustrating multiplayer gaming is in general.
@Power_Guy said:
Your daily reminder that you're the one expecting the Killer to suspend the normal rules of play because you brought an item. The Killer is not being 'toxic' and 'mean' for wanting to play normally.
This goes in reverse as well; if a Killer brings a cake & Survivors want to 'genrush'; they are just playing the game as it's currently meant to be played.
Neither side is beholden to follow made up rules just because their opponent wants them to. And I'm tired of getting screeched at in end game chat because someone believes 'cake = don't try' is a rule you can be reported for breaking.
If you bring an item/offering; it's on YOU to get the most out of it in the normal gameplay loop. It is not your opponent's job to suddenly stop trying, just because you say so.
There is a difference between not trying and playing normally so everyone can get some points - especially if you have some game sense, you can feel how the game goes as killer. If i have already 5 hooks and they made 1 gen, i don't need to tunnel someone out so the person definitely doesn't get more than 8k points. I never said i'm obligated to escape and the killer should just farm with us. I'm ok with dying eventually and i don't expect them to let me live only because i have a crown. And yes there are survivors who play like this too and deny the killer the BP. It never happened to me since they turned off MMR but during MMR i had horrible matches where i felt bullied again.
It is also very selfish, because they get like 200k points in a good match from offerings they didn't bring. If we say "everyone just does whatever he/she wants, with no empathy for the other side" i will stop bringing any offerings that benefits others.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2267023#Comment_2267023
They wont be buffing weaker killers though. They wont care about highranked killers, they never did. Thats why killers are concerned, they are just confronted more with unbalance.
If this game was balanced, sure, give me balanced matches. But there will be a cutoff point for killer mmr and tons of survivors above it. Who will these survivors face? Killers with lower mmr. These killers aint be getting buffs, oh no. They're just throwing deathsquads at unlucky guys. There is no equivalent to swf sweatsquads, so how to matchmake them
They basically buffed weaker killers for the last year. Maybe some of the buffs weren't far enough (Clown, Trickster) and it took them much time to finally do those, but balancing is very hard with all the variables and RNG in this game.
My opinion on the topic: My games were all super sweaty and not that enjoyable because i clearly only had a chance with best addons, best perks and a good map. Most of my games were 0-1 kills, some 2, rarely i had a 4k. After they turned it off, i again had some stomping matches where the survivors basically gave up (also not fun for me). I don't really know how to approach this. This game is full of RNG and so many variables, which leads to many "stomp or get stomped" matches - you rarely have 2ks, most of the matches you either win (3-4k) or lose (0-1k), this is how the average of 2k comes about. On the other side, this casual party game style makes this game exciting and funny as you don't know what you have to expect before the match starts. But i sometimes wish the games were more close.
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I run Detectives Hunch most of the time and even then Ruin, Devour or Noed still get value in my matches because i can't do 5 totems every match while my teammates are getting chased or they do nothing, and sometimes i don't have time to look at the auras because i'm getting chased by myself. No one will stack totem perks and even 1 is too much for most people. Whenever i play with friends it's usually me who has to bring Detectives or Small Game because the others don't want to sacrifice their precious exhaustion etc. perks.
We had totem-meta for a year now, even after the Undying nerf i see Ruin much more than Pop, and there is still a significant amount of Noed users (especially in purple and green ranks). Devour is not exactly meta but you see it here and there combined with Undying. Ruin can be a very braindead perk if the totem is well hidden, but it's a lottery, that's why i only use it with a backup regression perk.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Play in a custom game with @ScottJund and prove that she does have counterplay then.
Or take a look at this video here:
Does spirit have counterplay bevause of this, as you were saying bevause I beat her, or was she just garbage?
This "she was just garbage" argument i hear everytime. Her power works in a way that it is supposed to be on her if she kills you, just like Nurse. Why do everyone need that one counterplay, that one thing that you can always do and then you just win if you do it?
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My experience as killer is bad so far, i only get sweaty squads with my mains which play like they're in a tournament. The only time i managed to get more than 2k (and those 2k were mostly in endgame) was when i played with best possible add ons and perks and did go full sweat mode (stuff like making sure someone goes into second stage). I even had a survivor with 8k hours (never saw something like that before).
Survivor is ok so far, there was greater variety in playstyles and skillset.
But in general, my experience is the same as in the last test.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260400#Comment_2260400
rather ironically, as most other killers i play it's killer sided. i just dont play them very often lol. but nurse, spirit, doc, wraith? theyre all really good there- it's just my main that suffers the most
Even with high mobility killers that map is still bad. Not as bad as before but there are pallets everywhere and the main building is strong. It's completely survivor sided.
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the flashlight needs to shine on you for some time (something like 2-3 seconds) to stun you, try to juke around, go very close and turn around them, change the angle, this will confuse them. Often they can't get a constant shine on you then and you can uncloak and get a hit.
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I never had much problems with this map to be honest, not the best but not the worst. I even turned games by braindead-camping one side of the map after they made the gen in the middle, refusing to leave my 3-gen. Once you got a hook on your side it's getting tough for them. Dirty and not exactly "fun", but works. But yeah once the castle walls have fallen and they made 1 on each side, it's usually game over if you can't pressure by downing people so fast that they all have to leave gens
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Why is MMR considered bad for streamers? I would rather watch them playing against survivors who are actually worth going against them than seeing them destroying random solo teams at 4 gens every game...
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252982#Comment_2252982
I mean, I've been a rank 1 killer for over a year, every single time I played Spirit for a challenge, I barely used perks that complement her ability, I didnt even really use powerful addons, and I still got ez 3k's against fairly sweaty survivors. Thing is, all players play differently, games need to last long enough to read the killer or the killer has to be a very typical kind of killer(aka, boosted Spirits being easily mindgamed by dropping a pallet early and then running back where they came from).
And people in Europe have stopped playing her, because she's boring to play compared to other killers. Every single time I played against a killer and I asked why they played a certain killer that match, they told me they like playing that killer. When I ask that question to Spirit players, they almost always say they needed an archive challenge done and didnt want to grind 3 games to get it done, they dont enjoy playing Spirit. She's too easy to play.
"Legion? He can see the survivors which is MUCH better than only seeing wonky scratchmarks that are all over the place."
Except that Line of Sight breaking is a thing that all killers need to deal with, and Legion literally loses ALL tracking if that happens to him in Frenzy(unless he hit another survivor prior ofcourse). Once a survivor vaults a window, you barely hear them(Legion breathing very loudly himself) and you can lose them very easily. With Spirit? Eh, just look at the scratchmarks and you'll find the survivor easily.
Not seeing survivors isnt a downside. Stop claiming it is. I dont see survivors at least 60% of the match, heck, I even love playing on maps where I dont see the survivors during chase much(Lery's for example). I've played games where all I saw was scratchmarks and heard survivors while cutting them off. You dont need to see survivors to hit survivors. You just need to be able to deduce their location. Spirit can do this easily with her 176% movementspeed. She doesnt have Legion levels of heavy breathing while phasing to muddy out the breathing sounds.
I'm pretty sure that Freddy is much more boring to play and i've seen plenty of Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer or BBQ/Pop-Freddy's combined with his stupid add ons, at least before the nerf. There are a lot of frustrated and entitled killer mains out there who would play anyone who guarantees easy 4ks. Spirit is "easy" for players with a lot of experience because knowing what most survivors will do will give you a huge advantage, but i know for certain players that don't play Spirit because they find her too hard or to abstract. She was the second killer i've ever played and i mained her for a while, but still got stuck somewhere around rank 8 till i actually learned the fundamentals of the killer gameplay. She is not boosting anyone who is just bad at the game. You can also look into the forum threads, you will find many people who like to play Spirit. I never play her with purple or pink add ons (sometimes the lunge-add on) and rarely the green ones. If you get some good survivors, misusing your power can be quite punishing. Not like Ghostface-punishing but it still costs you precious time. She also barely has any map pressure if you don't play with duration add ons, as using your power for traversal means you can't use it for chase immediately. My benchmark are good survivors who know how to loop (and therefore abuse your 110%) and know how Spirit works, not your random red/purple solo squad, i could 4k those with any killer.
Imo scratchmarks are wonky especially on maps like Hawkins or Midwich where you don't have grass for a clue. They have latency and sometimes spread behind doors and trick you. It's just my opinion, even after 2k hours i just use them for a general hint that someone is near.
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I like Wraith, you won't have trouble finding survivors because you have no terror radius (especially if combined with good tracking perks and add ons) and being able to outrun everyone just feels great. It's also fun to sneak up on people and mistakes with his power are not as punishing as with Ghostface. It's pretty straightforward gameplay and that's what i like, no fancy set ups or super complicated power. He has also great add ons that can vary your playstyle or replace the usual perks. He is not your typical chase killer though because he has nothing that helps him in chases once he is uncloaked - it's better to switch targets often and be unpredictable.
If you rather want to stick to survivors necks till they are downed, then i would suggest Spirit, Bubba, Demogorgon or Blight.
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It really depends. I have some friends where we use it, with some don't, and sometimes i just play solo in between of some killer matches. Sometimes we're only 2 friends, sometimes 3 or 4.
I would say, in 50% of my survivor matches i use comms.
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Felix - light brown/ dark blonde hair, hairstyle is not the same but similar, tall, slim, german lol
Don't know about personality, i don't really read the lore.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256476#Comment_2256476
Freddy, Bubba and Myers are the only killers I can think of that are easier than Spirit, and none of them carry the same effort:reward ratio she does except perhaps Bubba now that he's been buffed and Freddy doesn't have Forever Freddy.
and Wraith, Legion, even Trapper? They all may be hard to master in higher levels (esp. Trapper) but picking them up is easy and their power is easy to understand and execute.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2253471#Comment_2253471
So you don't think it's at all a problem that it makes the easiest and most hated of the top killers even more accessible to the point of being one of, if not the, easiest killers in the game?
I don't think she is the easiest or one of the easiest killers in the game, with or without Stridor. I think she is easier to get good with than many top tier killers but there is a reason all the boosted sweaty killers have used mostly Freddy before his nerf for ez win.
Imo there are 2 kinds of people who hate Spirit or say she's too easy, boring etc.:
- Players with a lot of experience: Spirit is a killer that rewards experience and game sense. Since she hasn't really a difficult mechanic to learn (like Nurse, Billy, Blight), the things you require are a good observational skill and prediction skills/ experience/ game sense. She is also simple in the meaning of that she's a pure chase killer. If you started with the game in 2016 and picked Spirit up 3 years later, you probably will have had some success immediately, because the abstract power mechanic that not only involves fine observation but also guessing/ predicting, won't pose such a big challenge for you as for someone who just started with the game.
- Players who don't like the abstract mechanic that is involved while playing as her or against her, visual types. Hope that doesn't sound rude but some people also just can't think out of the box. And no i don't think you can prevent every hit by doing this, if you're injured and don't have much space to run into, you will go down.
Spirit has crazy potential and is IN THEORY nearly unbeatable if all of your predictions are right, but IN PRACTICE most of the Spirits will make mistakes. One of the arguments when people actually win against a Spirit is always "no, she was just bad", and while i think it's stupid it's also correct in some way. If she's making no mistakes you have no chance. But getting on this level takes a lot of experience. I'm still not there, as i'm losing nearly as many games with her as with other killers. But i'm pretty sure a lot more people would play her if she would promise the safe 4k everytime without risk.
Btw i would be fine with a nerf for her add ons and maybe give her some kind of glow when she phases. Only so this discussion is finally ending. Then everyone will focus on Nurse probably.
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While there are some main differences that have been discussed already, i think one of the main issues is that most of the random solo survivors don't know how to loop. No swf of the world can help you if you go down after 5 seconds everytime. Sure, to know where that gen is which have been worked on, or that someone found a key or a lit totem, or that the killer is chasing you, is valuable info. But if solo's would stick to some rules:
1. learn how to waste the killers time efficiently
2. do gens whenever you can, but think about which gens you should do (prevent 3-genning)
3. play it safe, don't do stupid BS like taking hits for no reason 2 metres next to a hook, don't wait at a gen till the killer can grab you because you thought you may could finish it
...the solo experience would be much better. It still won't be the same but playing against 4 good solos or 2x2 teams that stick to this rules is still a challenge for every killer.
Another thing that should be mentioned are the Tome / Archive missions. While they're active, i found killer games are much easier because survivors need to go out of their way to finish these, while most of the killer challenges are just the stuff that you would do by default.
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@SkeletalElite said:
There's literally nothing fine about spirit IMO
Overpowered base kit
Overpowered addons
Badly designed gameplay that removes input and interaction from the survivor.
I find that definition of interaction and input a bit simplified. We have already enough boring loop-around-the-rock-and-then-stun killers- that's what most survivors understand as "interaction" in this game. Seems like many don't like "guessing" but for me it's a way of getting into the killers head, i try to imagine what i would do as Spirit now - and i always feel satisfied when i tricked a Spirit and just leave the loop or something.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252991#Comment_2252991
I'm lost, are you saying that a perk that makes one of the strongest and least counterable killers in the game significantly easier to the point of requiring the least practice out of any killer to steamroll 999/1000 games is a good thing or a bad thing?
I'm saying it doesn't really make her better if the survivors do not use IW. Play her for 5 games without and then with Stridor. I dropped it in the last 3 months whenever i played her, then i equipped it again because IW annoyed me and made me lose games but I get confused by the super loud moanings and often go out of phase to early or choose the wrong side of a wall/ pallet. It may be good in showing you the general direction of a survivor when you phase around but especially against good ones in chases it gets very confusing because you can't really tell if they just backtracked or so. You have to focus on other signs which makes Stridor redundant. Most of the experienced Spirit players i talked to told me you're better off using the perk slot for something else.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252979#Comment_2252979
I never said it was a problem. I just personally don’t like the hit and run style or 2 of the 4 stealth killers. It’s a very very boring playstyle to me because I like the chase interaction not getting hit with Sloppy Butcher then snuck up on and having no chase interaction.
Not everybody is going to like the same thing. Just because I don’t like hit and run killers doesn’t mean I’m asking for them to be changed, it’s just extremely boring to me.
And the fact that I’ve been facing an influx of Wraith and Ghostface isn’t exactly warming me up to them either. It’s the same monotonous playstyle over and over again with no variety. The reason Myers is typically regarded as the most enjoyable stealth killer to play against is because he has a lot of different builds and playstyles. Wraith is the same bland playstyle no matter who is playing him.
Are we all supposed to like the same thing or something?
Myers is regarded as the most enjoyable stealth killer by many survivors because he is barely a threat when he is not using some of his stupid OP add ons. I remember Wraith before the nerf was regarded as one of the weakest killers in the game and survivors made fun of him as most Wraiths don't know how to play him (most still don't) and just chase for 5 pallets. That hit&run playstyle you mentioned i only see at higher red ranks (and there i usually don't see Wraith that often)
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252964#Comment_2252964
Not many good Spirit players use Stridor because it's a crutch perk, like Shadowborn on Nurse or Huntress only less addictive.
But a bad crutch. Killers with over 4k hours use NOED in tournaments where you can win money. Pretty sure they wouldn't hesitate to use Stridor if it would win them their game. Yes it has it's value against full-IW squads but it pisses me off i haven't learned her without it.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252612#Comment_2252612
Nurse also has issues. Thing is, you don't really encounter Nurse often as she isn't easy to play. Heck, Hag can be extremely difficult to play against due to her disgusting add-ons that amplify her already powerful basekit. But in both cases, at least they know how to play killer.
I have faced too many Spirits in red ranks that claim Spirit is the only killer viable in red ranks because they get demolished as any other killer. Since they do well as Spirit, they assume it's an issue with the other killers being too weak or too hard, while it's quite the opposite.
Making Spirit harder to play by removing scratchmarks while she phases would be 1 improvement I would love to see. It doesn't take away her power, it just forces more guesswork on the Spirit. Legion doesn't see scratchmarks or blood while moving 20% slower AND being unable to down survivors in his frenzy. So why would Spirit need it at all?
Taking away some of her tracking at least adds some skill to Spirit. Because I don't think it's the lack of info that makes Spirit so annoying to verse against. It's the amount of info that Spirit has access to.
I mean, remove scratchmarks, and you can run straight, left, right or at any other angle without her even hearing you, even if she runs Stridor unless she's up close already, at which point she can't hit you with a burst phase and then keep chasing you as you don't leave scratchmarks and thus have a wider range of places you can run to without her knowing.
I encounter MUCH MORE Nurses compared to Spirit (Europe). Can be maybe due to all the hate Spirit players get (it's kinda like a witch hunt already), but i also think it's because many players just not find her as easy as many people claim she is (at least many people told me they don't like playing as her because using her power feels to abstract).
Spirit is ez 4k against very predictable bad survivors who can't at least a little bit try to get into the Spirits head and just run in a straight line to the next pallet and camp. But as soon as you get to rank 1 and play against better survivors more regularly, you really need to be good with her as their mindgaming is much better (source: mained her for around 1 year).
I agree about the add ons, maybe if they really want to nerf her, they should start there. Legion? He can see the survivors which is MUCH better than only seeing wonky scratchmarks that are all over the place.
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@MadLordJack said:
You can't 20-second chase a mediocre Spirit, either. There's no skill involved, it's just guesswork, except the Spirit has to guess less and less as she gets better at picking out environmental sounds... Or just equips Stridor.
About all the "Stridor-Spirit OP"-hate:
Not many good Spirits use Stridor, at least in the tournaments i've watched (yeah i know it's a different sphere), not one Spirit used it. I personally use it when i play her most of the time as i got used to it too much, but it makes pinpointing the exakt location of non-IW-survivors very difficult. Especially on loops with thin walls or at pallets it becomes a pure guess on which side they are.
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@Toblerone007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2244534#Comment_2244534
You're going to get hit predropping unsafe pallets against current Wraith. The issue is exactly that. He can respect every unsafe pallet and 100% success rate get a hit on it regardless of input from the survivor because of the buff. The complaints are from a loss of interaction between survivor-killer here.
Does it make Wraith overpowered? No.
Are survivors deeming it as unfun? Yes.
I main Wraith and i don't think that's true. Most of the time it's a 50/50 situation and not a save hit. And even the 50/50 situation counts only for very unsafe loops. If you can see him or the wall is a bit longer it's not easy to hit survivors.
He is much more fun to play right now, he is stronger as i said in various other threads but i'm sure he is not OP or something. Everyone has different tastes and it's ok not to like to go against him. But many people just don't want to adapt as you have to be very aware against him. Once he is starting to chase you normally, he is the weakest killer in the game.
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Someone threatend to report me because i blocked a pallet with Wraith while cloaked and then killed him. He said it's bannable, one other survivor chimed in and told him this is how you play this killer lol
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2247941#Comment_2247941
Really good swf's maybe play in tournaments, but really good swf's are very rare in your usual dbd sessions.
God Nurses are also very rare, but even if i play with my very experienced friends in a swf it's usually gg against a good Nurse with meta perks and add-ons. That's not my definition of "keeping up with".
So, to be clear, even though they're both rare, only one definitely needs to be nerfed because you and your experienced friends can't win against her. Do I have that right?
Where have i said she should be nerfed? I only once openly said a killer should be nerfed (as far as i remember) and that was Freddy, for good reasons.
My problems are those arguments on this forum when it comes to s-tier killer threads, something like "but i have to play xy so i can keep up with all the death squads that i face 99% of the time" which is just BS. You can play whatever killer and get good with them and you will do just fine in most matches.
Btw i don't know how Nurse could be nerfed or adjusted in a reasonable way, but i think as soon as you are getting good with her, you will stomp all of the pub squads. And btw i'm also for nerfing swf (and buffing solo). Tournament Dbd shouldn't be an indicator as it is a very niche approach to this casual party game.
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I don't like these arguments that go like "Nurse is the only killer that can keep up with really good swf's'".
Really good swf's maybe play in tournaments, but really good swf's are very rare in your usual dbd sessions.
God Nurses are also very rare, but even if i play with my very experienced friends in a swf it's usually gg against a good Nurse with meta perks and add-ons. That's not my definition of "keeping up with".
She's also not as hard as people say, i don't play her regularly because i hate the fatigue but i started to kill people after my 2nd match with her. Sure you need to put some hours into her to win against very good survivors who know the counterplay, but even the counterplay is not that strong anymore once the Nurse realizes patterns or comes close enough .
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Nearly all of the very strong perks got nerfed more or less in the last 1.5 years... Ruin, Pop, Undying, DS for example. The only perk that became strong is Tinkerer maybe (?).
That's why i don't see them add something in this category. More like good support perks for other strong perks (for synergy effects).
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Only Ruin and Devour are so good that you have to get rid of it as a survivor. You will get some value out of them even if survivors just have to search for them and can't do gens (nearly nobody in my games runs Detectives or Small Game).
But personally i just find it to be very disheartening to hear the sound of a broken hex totem after 40 seconds, that's why i'm running mostly Pop & Surge again.
There are the occasional games where survivors spawn on top of it and then there are the games where survivors can't find it because it's Lery's or one of the swamp maps... if they can't find a Ruin or Devour those will probably carry you to your win. But most of the time they last like 2 minutes. If you could manage to pressure the survivors, get some hooks and defend some gens at the start then this is sometimes already enough to win. But i would only run it together with Surge or maybe Pop as a backup.
EDIT: Haunted Grounds is also an "good" perk to defend your ruin - if you are able to use the 60 sec for some downs. And of course i forgot about NOED...
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@WishIcouldmain said:
I'll be honest at first I thought Spirt was fine. A good balanced killer all these survivor mains on YouTube just crouching and doubling back movement to juke the Spirit and in low ranks it was true every Spirit I faced would loose like crazy. All these nerf Spirit people weren't doing it right. Then I faced a Spirit main. All these pro tricks were worthless she just downed and downed us. A 4 gen 5k. Since then and more good Spirts I realize all this "counterplay" is literally worthless against good Spirits. And not to mention her add-ons and Stridor. Which is a viable argument since people will run these commonly. One " counterplay" I hear is just run to the next loop. Something that works against a bad Spirit but good Spirits will recognize this and just down you later. 5 seconds is enough time for her to catch up to you and not to mention how likely it is add-ons are in play. As well just double back or crouch and wait. That's great against a bad Spirit. But a good Spirits will know you're doing this since they'll use their ears from all their time getting familiar with Spirit. And once more the likely chance she has add-ons and Stridor. So tell me people who say she has counterplay have the Spirits you've faced actually been good Spirits?
Even good Spirits make mistakes and don't guess right, trust me. Just watch some tournament matches and see how you can waste a Spirits time perfectly.
This is like the default argument: "Oh you mindgamed her? Than she's not good! Oh you couldn't mindgame her? See, she has no counterplay, there was absolutely nothing you could do!"
I've faced some Nurses with 6k hours and it felt like there is no counterplay. Like they completely foresee every of your jukes. Nonetheless, no one would ever say she has no counterplay.
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@Red_Beard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2235505#Comment_2235505
@TicTac I agree with this. Usually I get on their butt and start uncloaking as we are getting to the pallet to force the pallet drop at safer pallets. If they start/continue to run the loop, I will get a hit before they are back to the pallet. Sometimes they stop to camp the pallet and get out of position just enough for me to block the drop animation. I don't try to avoid the stun, even if I don't have enduring. But you could bring it with spirit fury if pallets give you trouble. If they start to run away from the loop, I will cancel uncloak and get back on them.
Wraith has tons of build options. Before the buff I was running corrupt, bbq, pop and whispers and killing 80% of survivors and I don't main him and only had about 900 hours in killer at the time. I tried a Dowsey build for the hook obsession challenge that was very strong. It was Make Your Choice, Furtive Chase to make the unhooker the obsession, and Nemesis to give me 4 seconds of aura read on the obsession. I would hook someone, leave to find another survivor and when the person was unhooked, turn and head back to the hook. Nemesis would let me see which direction the unhooker was headed so I could get the one shot. It was fun for me to play but probably not a fun build for the survivors.
I don't think he is an S Tier killer, but he is very strong. Survivor teams that split up to do gens can give you trouble. but they give all killers trouble, especially if they know how to loop and evade. 99% of survivors in PUB matches are not tournament players, and just because they are rank 1, doesn't mean they aren't a potato. Same with killers. Just because you get and can stay at rank 1 doesn't mean you are a great killer. Ranking is so damn easy. You need to practice using each killer's unique powers to get good at them. Some are just easier to get good at than others.
He still suffers a lot if you don't play him with best add ons. The hit&run technique has it's flaws. Imo he is B or B+ tier, like Demo and so, he is good and finally playing him doesn't feel like an uphill battle everytime, but he is not one of the 5-7 best killers.
My personal experience after 2k hours is that rank 1 players are usually better than the rest. Tournament players are an entirely different species as they exercise team strategies, coordinate their loadouts, perks and stuff like that. Of course not everyone at rank 1 is super great but in my experience you have to be good to be consistently rank 1. I've also never seen a complete potato at rank 1, only because someone made a mistake doesn't mean he's a potato. Rank 4 is a different story as the rank reset makes sure you can't really leave red ranks especially if you play mostly with others. But whenever i get completely trashed and have like 3 hooks or so it's usually a squad consisting of rank 1-2 players.
@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2235305#Comment_2235305
I know that match. It was only a tournament squad by name. They couldnt even figure out that he uses all seing after the match restart.
it was just the first match i remembered, probably they didn't expect someone to play Wraith at the tournament and rather learned everything about Spirit, Nurse, Hag and Pyramid Head before but left out the rest :D
@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2235396#Comment_2235396
But for example a car loop is too big for wraiths lunge, right? I cant get a hit on this structures if they mirror my movement.
There are different car loops but his lunge is generally not super strong on tiles where survivors can see you. Of course you can try to look shortly in the other direction (you can even walk backwards during the boost) but in my experience the lunge isn't fast enough to prevent the pallet drop, if they're not complete potatos. It's a bit of a different story on tiles where they can't see you coming. But generally, try to play with your red stain. Like turn to the opposite side while finishing the uncloak and then move backwards/ sidewards and turn around during the speed boost.
A strategy i sometimes use is uncloak at the other end of the loop, they expect the 50/50 but i just wait for some second while hiding my stain. Some will panic and drop the pallet and run away. Sometimes you can moonwalk. It's not exactly a powerful strategy but funny.
Also, 99% your uncloak to force pallet drops. I've never seen a survivor having the balls to just stand there and delay the drop because they expected you to fake. They either drop or run away, if they run away you can get the hit usually. This strategy works very good with the Shadowdance add on (actually the only good use of this add on).
Furthermore, while bodyblocking is a good strategy and essential with him, NEVER get stunned while cloaked. The stun animation is super long. So if you try to 99% your uncloak, make sure you are not to close to the pallet. And also don't follow right behind them through a pallet, better walk around it while cloaked. Most survivors know about this stun and will drop the pallet if they see you following them closely.
Keep in my mind that he is a stealth killer, many forget this means you need to set up things sometimes. Take your time to move behind objects and approach from unusual angles. A lot of Wraiths don't do this and rather play him very aggressively, running straight forward into the gens, not caring if they get noticed and just use his great speed to catch up. Also try to outplay Spine Chill when you suspect someone has it. This is something i still don't do that much and try to incorporate more into my gameplay. It works very well because SC users are usually relying on this perk and don't care about their surroundings.
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Check out Otzdarvas match with the "Gentleman" at hexy's tournament ("best of the best" or something like that), there you can see a Wraith against a tournament squad. Tru3 also plays alot Wraith.
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@[Deleted User] said:
If people legit think she is not used because she is one of the easiest and most op killers in the game as well then idk what to say.
i rarely see her here in Europe. In fact i see other good killers like Nurse, Blight etc much more often. I'm also pretty sure that your mediocre purple rank killer will not have great success with her against good survivors. She may not be rocket science but her power is intimidating for some people - the same way some people just can't play against her.