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Yeah, I think the finisher mori was unhealthy for the game overall. Some people have mentioned that maybe BHVR could want to sell mori animations in the future, which I think could lead to encouragement of negative playstyles and potentially to a worse overall survivor experience.
I'd say that BHVR should use the finisher mori to encourage positive playstyles (e.g. only award it if tunneling, camping, and slugging for 4k are avoided).
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@hermitkermit said:
The “I’m not responsible for your fun” mentality misses the point of playing a multiplayer game. If one player intentionally disregards the enjoyment of others, it can lead to toxic gameplay, drive players away, and ultimately harm the community and the game itself. Multiplayer games are meant to be a shared experience, and being considerate of that fact makes the game more fun for everyone. It’s not about taking full responsibility for someone else’s fun—just not actively ruining it.
And frankly, if everyone adopts the "I don't care because you're not me" mentality, it becomes impossible to empathize or build any sense of community. If no one cares, then nobody is having fun.
Completely agreed. I've even seen a major increase in tunneling, camping, and slugging for 4k in my own matches lately. Sometimes the killer will hard tunnel the first survivor and then play the rest of the match normally, leaving them with an easy game.
Anyway, I feel like I'm ranting. I agree that we all need to be responsible for each other's fun in a multiplayer game. As killer, I try to make sure my survivors get a challenge and enjoy the match, and usually give hatch to the last one so at least two of us enjoy the outcome :D
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@Eleghost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827735#Comment_3827735
Idk how it could increase, i'd say prior to it i'd have 7/10 games a killer would slug for 4k and it's pretty much the same. This doesn't really give you much more incentive to slug if you weren't already for the 4k.
I agree that slugging for 4k was too common before the update, but now I'm finding more slugging for 4k as well as increased tunneling and proxy camping in my matches. It's literally reached a point where I expect the killer to either come at me during the unhook, or run straight back as soon as an unhook happens. I usually run kindred, and I find I have to wait extra long to even think about going for the unhook these days.
And I used to rarely see hard tunneling, but now I'm seeing it in a sizeable number of matches. I find I breathe a sigh of relief when I don't see those types of things from killers, and that sense has really only developed recently.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827814#Comment_3827814
since the hook regeneration, the possibility so wiggle out is basically zero, so it doesn´t make much difference
I definitely had a match where I wiggled out as the last survivor and escaped through an open gate my teammate escaped from. Having said that, it was just once. Nevertheless, that sort of chance for escape is removed by this.
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@Feneroe said:
The proper balance for the basekit Mori would be to give survivors a special animation they can equip to play for them whenever they run out the exit gate.
I understand the thinking behind your statement, but the finisher mori isn't just an animation, it's a reward. Any playstyle a killer can use to get a 4k will get them the reward, and tunneling out a weak link in the early game will help get that for them. Proxy camping hooks or running back to unhooks is encouraged by it. Slugging for a 4k is encouraged by the system.
Also, there is some agency taken from survivors by the finisher mori since they go from having a very small chance to wiggle free to a zero percent chance. An animation on its own isn't equivalent to those things.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827311#Comment_3827311
But moris do take away a small set of survivor abilities
Sure, but it's not like iri mori become basekit. It works only when there is last survivor left and on ground.
Even if you are in unhookable spot, where you are 100% sure to wiggle out. I don't think getting bleed out is so much better option.
Yellow mori can never change the overall outcome of the game.So I think survivors are actually losing something in this deal.
That would be true only with iri/purple mori, so you can skip DS when it matters. Yellow is simply irrelevant in most cases.
it's clear OP is trying to suggest ways to discourage the behavior the finisher mori appears to be encouraging
He is trying to massively buff survivors as "trade off" for basically cosmetic feature. Have you actually read his ideas? Self repairing gens, lol. Rats would love this with Plot twist.
But I think you're right that survivors could be given a small new ability to deny some small killer power.
Why? It's pointless feature, with petty reasoning in my opinion.
I think the DBD community needs some incentives like that
That's not an incentive, that's punishment. It's not like I care about mori anyway, I have used it once since it went live.
I just find it hilarious people try to "balance" yellow mori. It's just an excuse to ask for buffs.The finisher mori can definitely change the outcome of the game for survivors, just not much for killers. Wiggling free can be the difference between death and hatch. You and I appear to agree that the small chance to wiggle free is being taken from survivors as a result of the finisher mori :D
Given that, it's definitely not just cosmetic. There is a functional effect of the finisher mori on the game and on the experience of the players.
I did read OP's ideas, and I agree that they're overkill if we're just trying to address the functional loss survivors experience as a result of the finisher mori. But there is an issue with how the finisher mori rewards getting a 4k regardless of the methods used to get it. I don't think the ideas presented here (e.g. self-repairing gens) are necessarily the way to deal with it, but I do think playstyles that disregard other players' experiences (tunneling, proxy camping, slugging for 4k, bully squads) should be discouraged by in-game effects.
On a different note, I'm curious why you call my reasoning petty. :D
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@bjorksnas said:
WoO is a training wheels perk in the sense of knowing where pallets and windows are as a survivor before approaching a tile gives a massive advantage and can make sure you path only towards zones with resources and not into deadzones created by teammates
On the other hand zanshin is mostly useless as a training wheels perk. Whats a killer gonna do make sure to go to a pallet so they can admire it?
I've never used Zanshin, but as killer I do actively direct survivors to places during chase by choosing my movement to be on one side of a survivor vs another, or by choosing the right positioning for my pallet breaks or window vaults. Most often, I try to direct a long chase into other survivors already working gens.
I can see how Zanshin would be used to shorten chase by choosing my positioning to pressure survivors into dead zones. But since I haven't run the perk, that's kind of speculation…
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@PetTheDoggo said:
You really have an interesting view on "balance".
Killer mori can be balanced with extra emote for survivors. That would be around the same.Functionally speaking, you're partly right. But moris do take away a small set of survivor abilities; they prevent any chance of wiggling free or using certain perks to break free from what would otherwise be getting carried to a final hook. So I think survivors are actually losing something in this deal.
Practically speaking, I think it's clear OP is trying to suggest ways to discourage the behavior the finisher mori appears to be encouraging. But I think you're right that survivors could be given a small new ability to deny some small killer power. Like maybe the last survivor gets a small advantage in chase for a moment. Or maybe like a single instance of sprint burst to cover more ground at the beginning of the hatch race. It would usually make no difference, but could on very rare occasions.
Realistically, I think that instead of any of this, the finisher mori should be denied to the killer if they slug for 4k. That would be something that discourages negative playstyles, and I think the DBD community needs some incentives like that.
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I fully disagree. If a killer spots a single light on an exit gate, one survivor at that gate is very likely to go on hook. In matches with just one survivor at the gate, that survivor has to time things just right, and a lot of killers have workarounds for this.
Stealth killers can trick survivors into revealing themselves, high mobility killers give practically no chance to activate the whole gate, ranged killers can hit from far away, some killers can teleport or sort of fast-travel between gates.
It's also possible to mind game a gate, leaving for some distance before doubling back. Survivors have very limited tools to handle this situation, and in my killer matches, I find that I usually win the 1v1 gate competition. Your opinion is definitely valid; I just have a contrasting opinion and would say I personally find the gates to be very fair.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430672/ways-to-balance-out-the-new-basekit-mori
slugging for 4k was always a thing, it's just that you have illusion slugging for mori is more of a thing because you are paying more attention to it
I've noticed killers getting increasingly aggressive in multiple ways lately. Recently, I've seen an increase in hard tunneling to rapidly tilt matches, much more proxy camping to such an extent that I now expect the killer to use unhooks for pressure, and I even breathe a sigh of relief at this point when I see the killer pick up whoever the third survivor is (whether myself or someone else).
I've even had killers slug for 4k, catch me as the last survivor while I tried to do the heal for my teammate, put me on hook near the downed survivor, and then start hitting me on hook so I'd give up and let them have their mori. I mean, if they're going to be toxic enough to slug for 4k, there's no way I'm just giving them a prize.
I really think this thing wasn't thought through. By hiding the mori behind a 4k, people playing a killer match are now given an incentive to use any playstyle available (tunneling, proxy camping, slugging for 4k, etc.) to get their free mori. And can you imagine if BHVR starts to sell mori animations? Someone who pays money for a new mori will see even more incentive to get a 4k regardless of the methods they use to get it.
Ultimately, I think you're right that some people already did these things, and some people still won't, but matches have been feeling more stressful for me lately as a result of the aforementioned playstyles becoming more common in my matches. Now that there's even more incentive to do those things, I suspect there's a correlation. But that's also just my experience; we really have to hear from lots of players to be sure :D
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I think someone else posted a similar experience a day or so ago here. Sounds like that person you experienced is getting around :/
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826385#Comment_3826385
because there's a large contingent of people that don't want to engage with the killer at all
Source? Or is that just an assumption on your part? I have seen this accusation often but i really havent seen survivors with distortion actually playing like that compared to survivors without distortion.. distortion wouldnt even affect these matches of you are Right and aura readings are not often used
i don’t need to be more specific, i would still make this suggestion without my personal subjective opinion that aura readings are getting out of hand, you will not convince me otherwise like this (and even partially confirmed it, as Nurse and Huntress are very strong and often seen, as is the combo of BBQ, Lethal and/or Nowhere to hide especially on high mobility killers like Blight or Hillbilly.
Hide&Seek is still a part of this game, and i see pretty much everyone do it here and there (even content creators that are all about chases will hide and not only run to the Killer and take chase any single time they can). These boxes wouldnt make hiding suddently super strong or often used - lockers are already here and will stay, just a new mechanic thats already been tested and even provide benefits for the Killer side..
also its not that rare that an aura read will gift you a free down either. I am not saying it happens all the time, but it sure does happen often enough. More often than survivors that completely avoid any Killer interaction at all costs from my povTo add just one player's perspective, I'll admit I usually run at least two information perks and one slowdown as killer. It's almost crazy in my mind not to be running BBQ. And that kind of turns the game into non-stop chase, down, hook, repeat (instead of the tension I feel when I'm around a corner, trying not to be seen as survivor).
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826379#Comment_3826379
People don't want basekit Unbreakable (there's a reason why it was rejected the first time, basically the whole playerbase united in backlash against it, a rather unique event, there were 1-hour videos of people abusing the hell out of basekit Unbreakable to torment Killers and Killers slugging non-stop until bleedout in search of that 4-man/3-man slug to end the match instantly), any player with a kernel of experience and logic can see that basekit Unbreakable will fix more problems than it solves.
However I do think that Survivors should have a "insta-bleedout" optional button under certain circumstances;
1: If only 2 Survivors remain.
2: If all remaining Survivors are incapable of playing (either downed without perks to self-recover or on 2nd hook/caged).
3: If slugged for 2m+ (how often does anyone gets slugged for 2+ minutes unless the Killer is either slugging for the 4k, trolling, or purposefully going for a slugfest after tunnelling the first Survivor?).
In the first two scenarios, the game is already over and literally any time spent in the game is effectively wasted, either out of spite or petty revenge is variable. The third is sadly something that happens from time to time and is legitimately only a way out to avoid useless BMing.
Giving Survivors basekit recovery isn't the way to go as it is too-easily abused by SWF and creates lose-lose situations often. However most games end in a slog and just a "go next" option should be available when it drags on. The game is meant to be played, it's not normal to regularly just tab out to do something else because you're stuck watching a 4-minute cutscene (or in case of SWF, stuck waiting on your friend to watch a 4-minute cutscene so you can play again) with no way to skip it.
I'd definitely agree that basekit UB could easily be abused. As far as insta-bleedout, it's probably a valid option. I think it would feel very unsatisfying, but it would nerf the slugging for 4k nonsense.
Having said that, and in regards to OP's other comments, I do feel my matches have been much more stressful overall as a result of more abusive playstyles recently. The slugging is definitely part of it, but I've especially perceived an increase in proxy camping and tunneling. These days I practically expect to get chased if I don't run faster than my unhooker.
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@Ohyakno said:
I like how slugging has entered the tired complaints about "camping and tunneling". The sideways push for basekit unbreakable is ridiculous.
If you really feel this way I encourage you to record your games. You'll find this stuff doesn't actually happen that often, if at all.
I played about 70:30 survivor:killer before the finisher mori was implemented. Then it took me some days to even want to try a survivor match. What I've found since then is that proxy camping and tunneling appear to be the rule now rather than the exception. It's become shockingly common for the killer to run back to hook and come at me if I've just been unhooked.
Slugging for the 4k also appears to be practically expected now, and I actually breathe a sigh of relief when I see the third survivor get picked up. It's quite uncommon. The toxicity level I've been seeing has reached a point where the game is becoming unrewarding. I'd say this isn't a sideways push for basekit unbreakable, but more of a desire to keep the game enjoyable.
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824347#Comment_3824347
Killers also get free genspeed and genrush and dont need perks to access that
I honestly don't understand what genrush is. Survivors are expected to go sit on gens if they don't need to do something else. If they bring toolboxes or gen speed builds, that's not free.
It feels like saying survivors get genrush for free is like saying killers get m1 attacks for free. And I don't mean to criticize at all. Do you find as killer that when a gen pops or multiple survivors get out that you feel worse? I'm genuinely asking to understand :D
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This is probably more balanced than most other proposals I've seen.
I do wonder a little if it would change the slug for 4k meta to even more heavily promote proxy camping the downed survivor.
A killer might see the opportunity to keep their eyes on the slug while being far enough away to tempt a pickup. But if that was the most common play, the remaining survivor could probably do a gen while the slug gets ready to self-pick up. That should incentivise the killer to go hunting. Anyway, just wanted to ponder out loud a bit. It sounds like a solid idea!
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Legion, Pig, Trapper, and any other basically human killer... Most of the survivors are strong enough to fast vault and healthy enough to run for a while, so they could take most humans as a group.
Also, I bet Bill would probably make quick work of it.
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I think anti-tunnel basekit should be strengthened outside of endgame collapse. The only time I generally run back to hook as a killer is if I'm already chasing someone who was on their way to the hook. As a survivor, having the killer either camp, run back to hook, or tunnel in some way just feels like an annoying and desperate move.
And that's not meant to say "Killers are so bad" or something. But my opinion is that if a person has to engage in those tactics to get kills, then they've probably put themselves into a higher MMR than they should be in. That's just my opinion though :D
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I agree that something should be done about this. The finisher mori system hides a reward behind a 4k.
And just imagine if BHVR started selling new mori animations for different killers. Would people really not engage in whatever playstyle they feel is needed (tunneling, camping, slug for 4k, etc.) to get what they paid for?
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Others here have said the entity simply doesn't allow the survivors to fight back, and they probably know more than I do.
But I think it would be interesting if the lore were to say that either:
- The survivors are punished if they try to hurt the killer, or
- The survivors eventually become killers themselves if they try to hurt the killers.
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@InvadeGames said:
it does exist, but its not completely separate, if i remember right, if its a new killer or one who hasnt been used in a while you get a slightly lower mmr on those but you are not getting a new player mmr. however the consensus is currently the primary focus for matchmaking is que times over mmr matching.
This is true. Early on in my experience, I got okay with one killer, and then tried Nemi. I did poorly in my first couple matches with him and found myself demoted into some kind of super intro MMR where the survivors didn't seem to understand their goal was to do gens. They were exploring the map more than doing objectives and barely knew to hold W in chase.
When I saw what was going on, I started "missing" attacks in chase, Nemi-punching trees and stuff, and letting them get practice and enjoy a bit before I took the 2k or 3k. I wanted them to enjoy and keep playing, so I made sure to let one or two live each match, but I can confirm, one killer got good matches for me, one got me survivors who were learning to walk :D
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When I started playing, I read lists of best perks and got Kate prestiged as soon as I learned what prestige meant.
Then later, I played a random perk challenge and found WoO was seriously hindering my looping abilities. In my first game without WoO, I looped better than I ever could with it. With WoO, I'd see a bright yellow pallet or window and think "that's my target, gotta get there." And that would pretty often send me holding W to a target I couldn't reach before I got hit.
Having said that, I think WoO is great for beginners to learn where pallets and windows are likely to be. On experienced players, WoO tells where your nearest resources are. You still have to be good at looping, and WoO gives you the ability to not run to a dead zone, or even to strategically pick good loops.
I'm definitely not at high MMR as survivor, but as killer I face survivors who are way better than I am as survivor. On those players, I really don't mind when they have windows :D
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@CountOfTheFog said:
I have a funny one. I was playing as a SoloQ Survivor with two Quentins in the lobby. In end game, on Badham, I opened the exit gate but decided to help them and be the hero.
Quentin 1 got hooked and Quentin 2 went down trying to unhook him. I rescued both of them and went down. The Killer hooked me for the first time during the match right by the exit gate I opened.
The Quentins healed each other and ran up to where I was hooked. The both looked up at me, nodded and ran out the exit gate leaving me to die. The Killer wasn't even camping.
While this should have angered me, it made me literally laugh out loud 😂
I don't know why it didn't bother me, but I'm grateful for the laugh. I do not condone the behavior, for the record.
I get that; it feels like the opposite of 'protect the VIP' (which I saw a streamer play), where three identically dressed survivors have their primary goal be protecting the fourth.
I also enjoy the confusing/surprised moments. Before the flashbang killswitch, I really liked throwing a flashbang down on hatch so it could pop while I jump in. One time I did that and Bubba came around a corner swinging, so he got blinded as I was jumping in. I like to imagine Bubba got confused :D When we to the lobby, I wrote "smokebomb!" a la Krieger from Archer.
Edit: A common acronym for expressing surprise was censored for some reason. Tried to make the meaning clear while not breaking forum rules.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825432#Comment_3825432
Issue is for most games giving hatch is simply gone, which I don't really like. This would simply give alternative to let survivor go without wasting their time.
That makes sense. Like if hatch is already closed, but the killer still wants to show mercy.
I almost want to say I'd find it fun if a killer option in that scenario could instantly 99% the exit gate and reveal it to the survivor so they could just run to it. But just popping down into hatch is way more efficient in that scenario. And the coding required to just give hatch is probably a lot easier.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
I know it doesn't fit the theme, but I wish instead of just mori last survivor, there would be an option to kill, or give hatch (instantly).
Something like M1 = Kill, M2 = Hatch
It doesn't really make sense lore wise, but I would like it in the game.This seems like a fun idea. It would feel kind of weird having the hatch just move because the killer says so, but I think something like this would fit the way a lot of people treat the endgame :D
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825308#Comment_3825308
There are some people who want to move on to the next match as fast as possible, and I imagine that's in part because by the time they've reached the end of the current match they've been bored for a while. The ends of matches can be dragged out, boring slogs depending on how it goes. Or maybe they really believe in optimizing their time for max points and animations and queue times eat into that.
I don't have the issue myself so I'm just theorizing. At the end of a boring match when I'm in the death animation I'm sighing with relief like "Finally, it's over." A few seconds of animation doesn't make it any less over to me.
Optimizing time could be one thing. I think there are also some people who used to think moris were fun to see, but since they happen more often now some people are finding them boring to see and questioning why they need to watch them, or at least spend the time doing so.
I posted my thoughts on the topic up above (and you already responded to a couple of my comments in other threads, so you might even remember my take on it). Based on the threads I've seen though, I think there are a few reasons why people want to skip them.
Always appreciate your comments though; you tend to be pretty constructive :D
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821470#Comment_3821470
If you're just looking at "winning" like the devs are, yeah, you'll lose more by "playing nice".
But honestly I've never had more chill games:
By adhering myself to an 8 Hook "nice Killer" playstyle (and further I even typically try to be sequential about hooks), my MMR settles to a point where I'm matched against survivors of skill levels where that's consistently possible.
Which is in stark contrast to when I'd try to hyper-tunnel/slugout survivors with Bubba. After several matches of that, whoof, the sweats and cheaters I faced for a while.
I have a similar approach to this. I don't explicitly go for 8 hooks, but I refuse to tunnel or camp unless I have a bully squad. My goal is to make sure all five players get a chance to have fun in the match.
Usually I'll also give last person hatch or open the gate for them too so that at least two of us get a 'good outcome'. But there was a time when I played for 'wins', and as you said, doing that will lead to hard matches by design.
Regarding OP's experience, I don't know how high my MMR has ever been, but I think there are a small handful of killers who fit the needs of high MMR play. Nurse and Blight come to mind, but generally high mobility killers have a chance I think, so maybe Wesker and Billy have some potential. In the end, I think BHVR has a massive challenge to balance the game for all of us :)
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@Archael said:
BHVR can give all killers BBQ basekit, and make that after hooking, surv is teleported to random hook with no aura indicator for killer.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm. Is that how you meant it, or do you genuinely see basekit BBQ as a fair trade to ensure killers can't easily run back to hook?
I'm not making a statement or anything, just really want to understand your statement :D
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I agree with op. There are definitely people who are either bored, annoyed, or who are otherwise beginning to strongly dislike moris now that they're becoming so common.
From a gameplay perspective the new mori system also provides a reward for getting a 4k without regard for how it's obtained. Any tactic to get the 4k is incentivized by the system; tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k are all rewarded by the finisher mori as long as they get all the survivors.
So there are various reasons why people have begun disliking the new mori system. In response, some people have suggested it could be good to provide the ability to skip the animation if desired through either a settings toggle or an in-game button option. Others have advocated for reverting the new mori system completely. I'd personally like to see one of these things.
As someone noted here, it's been suggested that BHVR could want to sell mori animations, and thus feel they need to make them more common to incentivize future sales. If that's something they want to do, I'd say it also should be pretty easy to just call an endgame transition function as part of the endgame mori scripting for players who want to skip the it. I think that would solve the issue where some people don't want to watch the mori for whatever reason.
Regarding the issue of incentivizing toxic playstyles, I think some serious work needs to be done to discourage play styles that make the game worse for those on the receiving end. Unless that's done, I'd say the finisher mori system is providing more negatives than positives.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824493#Comment_3824493
..... What? Can't you just look at your phone or something? Alt tab? Disconnecting because of an animation in a video game seems very extreme.
What you say is pretty reasonable :)
Somehow, I find that disconnecting feels like the best option for me in that scenario. I have some reasons for it, but ultimately I guess it's not a lot different than people disconnecting when they get downed fast or tunneled or something, except I contribute to my team as long as possible :D And I can reasonably expect to find myself in that scenario if I'm the last survivor :/
But because of that, I've had some mild dc penalties that make me think I should wait a day to go next so the counter can reset.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824467#Comment_3824467
It doesn't matter what you want. It matters to BHVR that their paid cosmetics are seen, because that gives them greater perceived value and helps push sales.
Yeah, I could see that.
I have to admit that I personally disconnect already every time someone is doing a mori on me because I don't like them. Not having the option to skip makes me play the game less. But you're probably right that BHVR would want to be advertising paid animations.
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@Ohyakno said:
They will never let you do this, because they want people to buy the new Mori skins. It's tantamount to asking them to add an option to make all cosmetics the default. Won't happen.
Those aren't really the same thing though. The people suggesting to skip moris aren't interested in seeing them, and feel either that their time is wasted, or that they just don't want to see them.
If we want to compare this to cosmetics, it would be closer to a cosmetic that comes with some kind of animation that only activates at the end of a match where a survivor causes the killer to watch the animation as the match ends. And then the suggestion is still different than asking to make such cosmetics default, but more like asking not to have to be made to watch the cosmetic-related animation.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I can state now that it's been a good couple of days since I've seen a player suicide on hook. Because of this, it's very notable that even if I lost a trial or two I thought we could have won, I am completely chill with it, because at least everyone tried.
It's a game ultimately, and so long as everyone is trying - even if someone makes a mistake, or isn't as skilled - it still feels fun and enjoyable. It's when someone gives up when frustration hits for me.
I got to the point where I feel bad if I deliberately die on hook because it hurts my team. One time, I had a bunch of consecutive matches where I got tunneled, so tried to do it but accidentally kobe'd off the hook. Then I played the rest of the match and we got all four out.
There was also this one time when it felt like a killer was tunneling me, so I went over to him and pointed at him to say "You're a jerk." So then he let me live the rest of the match. I didn't take advantage of his generosity by body blocking or something… just did gens some and got hook saves to be kind of 'neutral' for the match. At endgame, I stood under a hook waiting, but he told me to go out the gate :D
I forget when those matches happened, but I don't give up on hook anymore as a result. My team needs me :)
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@MrDardon said:
Also, I play a lot of Dracula.. the ultimate test once I see the last Survivor on a gate is after I switch to wolf.. if they pet me, they get the woof's and can leave, othwerwise I become and ungood boy.
One even wanted to grab my tail all the time... didn't allow it.
That's aweseome! I didn't get to pet the dog yet. But one streamer I watch likes to run pebble and will try to get the dog to fetch!
There was also one time as Pig when I cornered a survivor in the circus area on the Clown's map (Father Campbell's Chapel). They just slow-walked to a corner all scared in one of the little tents and crouched there. So instead of downing them, I crouched next to them as Pig and made friends.
Then we did all the circus activities together: we visited the mechanical fortune teller, the survivor shined a flashlight on the archery target (and I attacked the target), we stood in the wooden/cardboard thing with cutouts for your faces, I hit the strength test machine. This went down while the other two survivors obliviously finished gens. To this day, if I see a survivor with that specific survivor and specific skin, they never go on hook more than twice :D
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823548#Comment_3823548
Brother, no one here is a killer or a survivor. Were all people trying to enjoy a videogame
so cut the us vs them bullshit and go have fun god dammit
Well said. W Shrrompy!
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@AssortedSorting said:
Maybe they’re the seeds for an ARG lore event tied to Halloween in the forums.
4th wall meta breaking with vigo or the Arkham troupe scrawling comments into sheefs of paper they find that look like dialogue about their own world viewed as a video game.
Once Halloween rolls around, and the bleed into “our world” strengthens, they populate into little lore snippets and comments from some characters, maybe even cries for help, or just keeping them sane.
And those interested can score the forums for all past instances of those previously obscured comments.
Or just some automated troll bot that’s trying to automate spam into the forums consistently being circumvented/bypassing the ability to be removed completely by moderators, and or a new forum bug regarding moderator post removal not working correctly.
Agreed; intentional or not, I think it would be interesting to see BHVR to do that :D
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823336#Comment_3823336
"Another forum post needs your help. I'll mark it on your map."
lol… Yeah, I wouldn't post two threads with the same op question, but sometimes I think the same kind of comment can contribute to multiple threads :D
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I want this so I can throw down a smoke bomb every time I run out of the exit gates or jump in the hatch. I've been throwing flashbangs on the hatch when I jump in and saying "smokebomb!" when I get to the lobby for a while.
TLDR: I need these smoke bombs for meme purposes.
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These are popping up all over the place. It's like the comments have been removed and replaced by them… reminds me of The Institute from FO4, kidnapping innocent comments and replacing them with something… else…
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Something like this could be fun! There might be people who don't like it because they feel they can't control where their survivor goes if they're the one downed, but this or something like it could be a fun mechanic :)
Also, I'm seeing a lot of these posts labeled "Unknown" where the content was removed. Is this a troll running around getting their posts removed, or is this some sort of promotion for The Unknown helping to bring stuff to the Entity's realm?
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@Ohyakno said:
No you haven't.
I think op deserves a little more feedback than that, maybe a wink to let them know you're not trying to to antagonize ;)
But in response to OP's comment, imagine someone being slugged for 4k in the void! Want to save your teammate? Killer gets to know exactly when you're going for it!
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The killers in the game aren't really scary for me. They used to get my heart going fast in chase, but that doesn't happen anymore.
On a different note, I do think the least scary is Dracula... He looks like a cartoon vampire.
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I'd support this for all moris. I don't especially like having to watch them since they don't add any horror for me to experience once they're done. The thing that makes horror scary for me is the prospect of additional murder or torture after seeing the initial murder play out.
In contrast, watching moris isn't scary for me. It's just something that makes me cringe... like watching someone eat rotten food, or someone making a really offensive cringey joke.
I'm out of the game at that point; why make me watch a murder when it's not adding to the horror experience?
Mine is obviously a different take than op's, but now that moris are a lot more common than before the finisher mori update, I'd support this kind of change.
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Agreed with the people who say to just relax and enjoy it! Here's my opinion:
These events are way more fun if you just go kick some pumpkins and throw a smoke bomb on the hatch before you jump in!
And it's a celebration, so try to make sure all five players have a good time! So killers: try to give your survivors a decent match, but also let them have some fun. And survivors: interact with your killers, do gens for your team, do saves and stuff, don't take it too seriously, and get creative with your smoke bomb gem things! Celebrate the season! (Also don't take it too personally if the other side does their goal ;)
Edit: spelling
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I think you're right that MMR is pretty often used to dismiss the thoughts of others in discussions. But I kind of also think that any ranking system will probably be used that way.
Even if we take away all ranking systems, there will likely be people who try to validate their opinions at the cost of other people's opinions.
I think you're right that it would probably help a lot if more emphasis were on positive discussion and understanding that we're all trying to enjoy the game. Like if instead of this motto that "I'm not responsible for your fun," or "your opinion is weird", we instead had more people saying "I hear you. Let me think about what you said."
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Yeah, I think the other survivors aren't allowed to show the killer where you are and deliberately body block you so the killer can get you. But there might be grey area there too. Like if someone loud vaults next to you a bunch so they can get you targeted and go for hatch, I don't know if that's bannable.
But like the last response said, it's also hard to police. It's extra tricky bc other survivors might have done something that made the killer want to spare them.
Personally, I'm a Pig main, and if someone boops the snoot, they live. That makes for some weird interactions if two survivors boop and others don't. I'll stand next to a survivor who hasn't booped, waiting for boops so I can be fair to them; even try to get the others to boop in front of them. But if they don't do the secret Pig handshake, I might down them so I don't get artificial mmr drops and get unbalanced matches.
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I agree. We need a nerf for exit gates. When the gate opens, there should just be more killers inside!
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821057#Comment_3821057
Me too! And I know that I am dogshit with a flashlight, thats why I am never using one and occasionally try my hand at Flashbangs, which are easier to time for me.
Same here! I went through flashbang withdrawal.
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I mean, I get the sentiment, but I think when people read the end of that message, they'll all feel like you called them bad and dumb. I'm even feeling a bit defensive after reading it.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818974#Comment_3818974
the mori should be earned not handed out
A quote from a dev: "“A mori is how you’d expect The Killer to finish a well-played match, so it made sense to go in that direction." Source: https://deadbydaylight.com/news/mori-rework/
The phrase "well-played" signifies that the devs consider a killer getting a 4k to be earning the mori. Or, you could rearrange that a bit and say the act of earning a 4k unlocks the finisher mori.
if killers aren’t using moris that’s their fault.
Game developers don't really like it when they go through the trouble of designing and programming a game mechanic and then it's barely used. If killers aren't using the mechanic, then that would suggest there's an issue that needs to be addressed. That's not the players' fault, that's a game design problem. They create a unique mori for every single killer and even some cosmetics; they want the mori to be seen.
It's also a really bad sign of a game's future if the developers say that when an element of their game is failing it's the players' fault. That's not how we want the developers to treat their game or their playerbase.
I just re-read this and it strikes me as quite concerning that BHVR would want to reward getting a 4k without considering the methods used to do it.
That suggests that they'd consider tunneling, camping, and slugging for 4k to be part of a well played game. But those tactics are broadly considered to make the game unfun to play for their target.
I should note that I play killer as well, but I avoid those things because I know how it feels to be on the receiving end. Why would I ever play as survivor if I got tunneled, camped, and slugged every game?
I'd say that minimally, they should code in a check to not reward those playstyles. Like only reward the mori if the third survivor hadn't been slugged for more than 40 seconds, don't award the mori if survivors were repeatedly getting chased right after they were unhooked, etc. Those should be pretty trivial to code, just call the time function for whatever language the game's written in, put a few if statements to += a counter, check counters at endgame, and bam: encourage good play.