radiantHero23
radiantHero23
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@Error_Social said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920194#Comment_3920194
Thing is, this is coming from some of the biggest names in the community. I learned about this opinion in a consultant's stream. Apparently, other consultants agree as well, which is insane to me.
I don't want to see another nerf to Kaneki, ever. If we could have a Kaneki-esque killer every 3 months, this game would be the best it's ever been in its 9 years. I've been playing killer since 2016 and the game is in its best state right now.A Kaneki like killer every 3 months?
Do you want to kill this game?
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919758#Comment_3919758
Any one of these changes would kill him. We need FAST, as killer. Number 1 Is the most destructive of the bunch, and should never have done to Ghoul. How are you gonna take away the player's ability just because they broke a pallet? Let's think of an equivalent. The survivor just healed, so now they do gens 30% slower for 7 seconds. "Why?" Because they did something that helps them last longer in chase (potentially), just like the killer breaking a pallet helps them get a hit faster (potentially) and so it gets punished. You see why it's not fair to punish people for doing normal gameplay? And if the killer having a mobility power is the problem, you might as well shut the servers down now, because that's a game-killing balance precedent to set. The killer's not allowed to be fast? This whole thing is ridiculous.
Killer forces pallet, survivor can't get to next tile due to killer power and survivor gets hit because of power.
Very much interactive gameplay where the survivor had a lot of options...
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919859#Comment_3919859
How are these killers balanced for the supposed high tier impossible mmr killer games when he's still nearing 70% kill rates at the top 10%?
First and foremost, kill rate doesn't say everything. Getting to high mmr doesn't seem to be as hard as people think apparently. Therefore the 70% kill rate also includes people giving up, soloq funstuff, people doing challenges and so on.
The game is balanced around a 60% kill rate (which is a problem I won't go into), so blight with his 70% isn't that far off. Same is Nurse.
If we make the game more bearable for lower tier killers, the thing which we all have been trying to do for years now, you can be certain, that Blight's kill rate will skyrocket as will Nurse's.
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I think its not as bad as nurse, but if the game wants to thrive overall (lower tiier killers be viable across the board) both need to be tuned down. Nurse needs a rework and blight needs nerfs to his base power.
Right now, they are "fine" because the game is partially balanced around them existing. This is the problem though. If the game is balanced around those killers, then other killers are awful in comparison. If the game, however, is balanced more towards the lower tiers, those two (and a few more) become way too oppressive. Its a problem one way or another.
Nurse in particular will always be a bottleneck if not reworked.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918387#Comment_3918387
I would prefer the break on hit the most personally though. It doesn’t reward bad sadakos since you have to actually outplay them to get the value. If we’re worried about it being slightly too much then just have it break the tape, not give them a stack of condemn when it breaks like it used to. That seems fairer. Passive condemn is my least favorite since it’s free for doing nothing and would hurt low mmr more than the other options imo.
There does need to be “some” counter play to tapes whichever option they go with. Currently there is none other than just try not to let them get the tape in the first place, which encourages tv spam mindless play.
Totally agree on addons. Tons of really bad ones and ones that don’t make sense because they were designed for her old kit. Honestly Fingernail should be base kit. It’s too required, you realistically never take it off right now.
Breaking without condemned seems totally fine to me personally. It's the aspect of it applying extra condemned that seems too strong to me. Breaking a tape is already a very strong effect in the right hands.
I feel like the application of condemned is in a very good spot right now after is was too weak in 1.0 and too strong in 2.0. Therefore I'm a bit careful with supporting further application of condemned. Especially when the application takes low effort.
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I very much dislike this change. After hitting p100, the only sense of progression on that specific character is hoarding more addons. Seeing them pile up was a motivating aspect that got erased by this change.
The correct amount of addons, items and offerings should be displayed in the loadout screen and not be visually capped.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918458#Comment_3918458
I always run bloody fingernails with the iri remote play or witness aura reading addon.
As I track and memorize survivor locations when playing her, I don't have a reason to use remote. Ring drawing adds so much pressure when combined with my playstyle, that it's probably the second best addon I can bring to a trial when playing her.
Not everyone plays her like i do though, so I can understand that others don't value it as much as I do.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918387#Comment_3918387
Do get good value from ring drawing? For me it’s pretty useless in most matches. I miss its last version.
Its amazing for my playstyle. I get so much additional pressure from it. Top 3-4 addons she has for sure if you ask me. The best propably being bloody fingernails.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
There’s a lot you can fix on her, but my feedback please to you is…
Her tapes shouldn’t be so free. There’s almost no downside. To balance this a few different options I personally like. Only one of these options needs to be implemented. Not all. Number one is my choice.High Risk - High Reward in option 1.
Reward for survivors - 70 seconds of no mobility for her in that area. No condemn stacks for her to spam. The risk? Condemn rises slowly every 25 seconds 1 stack vs holding onto it currently at 0 cost.
I don’t mind what option we use or none of these but she needs since. Tapes are way too free. It just doesn’t feel right.
1) Bring back passive condemn.2) Break tape on a hit.
3) Ring Drawing becomes base kit.
Also the addons need love. They’re not in the best spot.I agree, that there should be some downside to picking up tapes.
I use ring drawing every game to make this happen something like that basekit would encourage sadako's to hook and prioritize focusing on tape carriers.
I think breaking a tape on hit could be fine. Maybe a bit too strong? Would have to test.
Passive condemned is straight up too strong with the current state of condemned imo. I dint think that's the best way to go.
Addons are 2 reworks overdue. Most are either useless or bad. They need to seriously be looked at.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918039#Comment_3918039
Yes, when the survivors are on the ground and use the exit from the match option, it is considered a defeat for the survivor, with MMR everything is a bit more complicated since with ab func it works a bit differently, but basically everything is the same, surrender match = lose , just from some variables like the end time of the match the results can be slightly different
Thanks for clarifying.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917962#Comment_3917962
abbadoning just counts as DC, if the killer did it, the killer gets a loss and the survivors get a win, It's just DC with all the usual things but without the time penalty
a survivor that abandones at the end of a match does not lose or win mmr?
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917928#Comment_3917928
Mandy said:
"On our side that's how it does work, its considered a loss for the killer. Just the visual on the endgame screen doesn't reflect that - it's been brought up with our QA team to fix. If the killer uses the Abandon feature, it's is most definitely counted as a loss."Is it the same with survivors abandoning?
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917488#Comment_3917488
I was talking about the longer timer, which they changed back. This would have made it impossible to die by them. The auras, while I don‘t like the change, are fine.
They wanted to nerf the traps to compensate for the stronger chase
That‘s something they shouldn‘t do in my opinion. Her uniqueness comes from the traps and we don‘t need more copy paste dash killers.
Her chase needs to be decent. You can only trap survivors if you get a down. Pig is not viable in competetive settings because her power takes too long to set up. Comp teams pre drop everything to never go down OR go down so late, that the traps won't do much.
@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917384#Comment_3917384
no they nerfed her traps into the ground and try to buff her dash as compensation but buffing her dash is meaningless with the very loud 3 second warning telling survivors that 1 she's there and 2 she may hit you
How are the traps nerfed into the ground. They made the rng more consistent and just removed the auras.
If you get 4-4-3-1 and a decent map, you can very reliably get head pops without any additional addons. The traps are by far the best part of her kit.
Her ambush can be VERY useful. Just not at every loop. One example of the ambush being very strong is the Garden of Joy - carpark. A well timed moondash will always result in a hit if the survivor doesn't pre drop. It's not a weak anti loop. It just struggles with interconnected tiles and pre drops. Which is a weakness good survivors will use against a Pig. This is why I use JMF every game.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917384#Comment_3917384
Behavior wanted to nerf pig (only to stay true to the source) and they did. They removed box auras which I still dislike and they wanted to make it impossible to die through her traps. The only time where she didn’t get nerfed (in my recent memory) was as her terror radius got decreased.
My friend, I get head pops every third game. The traps DO kill. It takes a good amount of strategic time investment and the right search-rng to do it.
They wanted to nerf the traps to compensate for the stronger chase, which is fine by me. Pig is the killer with the strongest build in slowdown in the entire game. If her chase gets buffed, the traps have to be touched as well. The nerf they proposed however was too much compared to the buff to her chase. Therefore we reasoned with them and it didnt go through. The trade off for the buffs was therefore the auras being removed. That is a fair trade in my book. Increases her skill ceiling because now you also have to remember box spawns. If that is a good thing, is a whole new discussion regarding how much you already have to keep in mind while playing her.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916973#Comment_3916973
I hope he isn‘t getting chuckied and isn‘t continuing #nerfpig with #nerfkaneki.
I dont think that is going to happen. Also, Pig has received almost nothing but buffs over the last few years and the only nerf was acceptable and understandable in relation to the buffs. Nerfpig is literally outdated.
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@daikaimon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916739#Comment_3916739
Did the developer say that further nerfs are planned?
Thats what Ive heard yes. It also feels necessary imo.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916701#Comment_3916701
Massively? Would the ability even be usable at that point? Dude, we haven't even been through round 2 of Ghoul nerfs yet. This first round blows, because it makes him more bullyable to good survivors.
And if anything, these changes were very influenced by objective exaggerations of his strength. "He can hit you through walls and have instant cooldowns." Yeah, but he wasn't supposed to have any of that. Those were bugs. You can't just factor something that the killer's not intended to have, and that would obviously get removed very next patch (which it did), into a killer's overall strength.
The environment grab range getting nerfed was simply dumb. Also, the add-on that increased it was reduced to a mere 1 meter bonus, definitely a BHVR stamped add-on (you know, the kind that does basically nothing).
Neither the devs nor the community understand the ripple effect of nerfing. You nerf 1 big thing at a time, and see how it plays out, and THEN you look at nerfing something else if it's not enough. What was just done to Ghoul was like 6 big nerfs all at once. We can't even measure what effect each individual nerf has, or how much each was truly needed (or if any need to be reverted), because they were all thrown in together. Either increase his cooldown OR reduce his auto-aim OR lower his mobility.
"This first round blows, because it makes him more bullyable to good survivors"
Firstly, please show me how a GOOD Ghoul (someone that actually puts effort into playing that character) is getting bullied. I REALLY want to see that.
Secondly, every nerf to a killer makes facing it an easier and less frustrating experience for the survivor. That is the entire purpose of a nerf. Doesnt matter if its on survivor or killer end.
Hitting through walls are not a bug and still happen. Why? Its because dbd´s funny ping issues and the core design of this killer dont work well together. Iff you have any additional information, please feel free to share.
The killer received 6 nerfs AT ONCE and is still extremely strong and in line for additional nerfs. Even the most biased people have to acknowledge that the killer on release was too strong at this point.
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I found some success in mindgames at windows. First fake the power so that the survivor is more likely to run to a recource then scamper through it for a hit.
Its not reliable but it works sometimes.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915767#Comment_3915767
Something can be beneficial to the survivors and to the killer. The killer gets time, you get a health state, which also equals time in a chase later and give you some safety. I would run circle of healing and just equip another healing perk to speed it up. The problem of current invocations is that they only really benefit the killer. The crow perk is worthless and weaving spiders puts you permanently in a situation you don‘t wanna be in (broken).
Btw: Behavior released kill rate stats today and Sadako was in the lower MMR section 4th. You know what I want to say by that.
You want to tell me that Sadako is a noob stomper?
Im not suprised. My point however still stands strong and is by no means proven wrong by their stats.Killers like Pig and Sadako have always had a high kill rate. Both in low and high mmr.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
I'd say my take on the tier-list would be something like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C2T3PPMHTE7H/my-image-282-29.png
And for all of you Pig mains, this one is for you 🐽
@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915587#Comment_3915587
Finally, a quality tier-list with Pig at the top 🐽👈️
WE FOUND IT BOYS, THIS IS THE ONE!
🐽
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Easy. Cause the killer obivously needs it.
Sorry for the sarcasm. I couldnt help myself.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915352#Comment_3915352
Some people already run it without the self healing part, so giving it that back and keeping the current parts can only increase its play rate. It wouldn‘t be like treacherous crows where you become broken and get a mediocre effect. A health state is very valuable in a lot of situations and the time would probably be worth it (even when it benefits the killer). For example when you are almost healed, you can finish it or when you are on death hook, you rather waste a few seconds to be on the safer side.
I agree on that, but something that benefits the killer is never really worth running. I think you mean something different, but the wording contradicts the entire purpose of a survivor perk. Its supposed to help you as a survivor. Not benefit the killer.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915296#Comment_3915296
Our argument in the beginning was about the speed and self healing as ability, which I think we come to an agreement. My version would not be too strong.
Why would survivors run it? Because soloq is soloq and they often don‘t want to heal you or refuse to. Additionally you could start healing while waiting for another survivor to heal the rest. Current circle of healing is for that exact reason only useful in swf.
Shattered hope basekit: I would only do that if I buff all boon perks accordingly.
I didn‘t need to go into your point, because it wasn‘t necessary for my point, which was purely about the speed. I don‘t deny that old COH was too strong and so on, however, there were ways to keep the self healing.
I do t think people would ever run a perk that benefits killer. Soloq is bad, but not that bad. People will rather run a med kit or a syringe. That's the reality.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915213#Comment_3915213
The problem as it got nerfed was still the speed and not the ability and that killers weren’t able to break totems. Whenever behavior nerfed the numbers they weren‘t drastic enough and they didn‘t separate self healing from altruistic healing.
First version: self care at 200% - 8 seconds
Second version: self care at 175% - 9,1 seconds
Third version: self care at 150% - 10,6 seconds
Fourth version is what we have now.
My suggestion: self care at 45-35% (35,5-45,7seconds) and altruistic healing at 100%.
When you look at this, the problem was still clearly the speed and not the ability itself. I would even be fine to give killers shattered hope basekit for getting self healing back at 35-45 seconds.
My version would very much benefit killers, because it would work as a natural healthy slowdown. Survivors would search for totems, bless totems, keep running over the whole map to heal and take ages to heal. This is a lot of time. Use an anti healing build and survivors will stand there for minutes.
You didnt really go into my point at all. The problem was the self sustainablility it provided combined with the lack of value a killer got for getting a hit. As most decent killer players know, leaving a chase for someone else is often a very viable strategy. This perk, until the self heal got removed, completely negated that. I dont have to mention how hard of a blow this was for hit and run killers, do I? Their entire gameplay got basicly removed. Just ask a Twins- or Hag-main that played during that time and they will tell you fun stories.
Back in the day, killers where able to break boons. They are able to do it now. BHVR´s solution to breaking boons was shattered hope. Was that perk every really used to combat boons? No. It was a drop of water on hot stone. The problem with that perk was:
- You dont know if your opponent brings it, rendering it completely useless if no boon is in play. (This wasnt the problem back then mind you)
- A survivor with CoH would just boon the next totem. Repeat. (This was the real problem imo, because until the killer wasted so much time getting rid of every new CoH, the survivors had made so much progress through the efficiency provided by that perk, that the killers basicly lost the match already just through breaking boons.)
How did people therefore deal with it? Stack more slowdown, tunnel, camp, play killers that are so strong in chase that they never have to leave a chase or play killers that disincentivize healing (e.g. Plague and Legion (mind you, coh often made it efficient to heal even against a Legion back then.))
In regard to your suggestion. Why would a survivor ever pick something that would slow down the game for them? Old CoH sped up efficiency. Thats why it was so good. Its the same reason syringes will never get out of style if they dont get reworked entirely. If self healing comes back at more than 30 sec, then why would anybody use this perk? You could literally just run botany self care. Or even better: a med kit. > med kit with syringe (doesnt even waste a perk slot).
Shattered hope is not a basekti perk for a good reason. It would make almost all other boons so awful that wed have another treacherous crows situation. Thats why it was never made basekit but a perk imo. The other boons where not strong enough to warrant a basekit mechanic by any means. ONLY CoH warranted this kind of ability, which speaks volumes about its strenght.
"My version would very much benefit killers, because it would work as a natural healthy slowdown. Survivors would search for totems, bless totems, keep running over the whole map to heal and take ages to heal. This is a lot of time. Use an anti healing build and survivors will stand there for minutes."
- you summed it up here by yourself. Why would a survivor use a perk that would benefit the killer???
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914276#Comment_3914276
No. The problem was the speed at which you self heal not the ability itself or that killers couldn’t break totem basekit. You were healing yourself at 100% healing speed. With self care healing speed the killer would benefit a lot from survivors using it.
The problem was 100% the self healing. BHVR tried to deny that aspect for over a year and nerfed the healing speed over and over. The perk remained a big problem after every single nerf. After the self healing was finally dealt with, the perk was immediately in a much fairer state.
The problem with the self healing is the incredible increase in self sustainability each single survivor gained just for one bringing this perk. A killer was rarely able to leave a survivor injured because they would gain no value what5soever in slowing down gens. The injured survivor would heal by themselves at decent speed (pretty fast with a med kit on top) and no other survivor had to leave a gen.
This got even worse when you look at bodyblocks, as people could heal themselves up by themselves, run in, take a hit and repeat that process. That times 3 creates a big problem.
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
She's just a very weak killer at the moment. She doesn't reach F-tier with Trapper, Myers and Merchant, but she's definitely at the bottom of D-tier. Her chase is terrible, Condemn is too unreliable and survivors have too much control over her power. The biggest problem is her results simply do not match the amount of effort you have to put in with her. Especially if you compare her to killers with borderline brainless powers that achieve equal or better results for far less effort.
While I don't really think she needs another rework (even if I would prefer one), she definitely needs serious buffs in almost every part of her kit to bring her to a less laughable position.
I have to disagree with her condemned being unreliable, as this is simply not the case if done correctly. This also makes her pretty decent even at higher level.
If asked about a tier list, I would put her right next to Pig in mid c-tier. Both killers are a lot better than most give them credit for.
(Sadako goes right into A+ tier if put on Gideon meat plant though)
I absolutely agree though, that she is too weak for the amount of effort a player has to put in in regard to winning and especially when compared to either killers. She has a deceptively high strategic skill ceiling, which most people never really reach because the game tells you nothing about it.
As I said before, playing Sadako stresses me more than playing any other killer due to how much I need to keep in mind while playing. Other killers, that are chase oriented, are a lot less stressful, because they are, no offence at all, simpler to play. Their power is more straight forward.
Sadly, as you pointed out, these other killers also often perform better with less effort put in.
Maybe there could be basekit features that help to make her easier to play?
- TVs Sadako shut down are highlighted yellow?
- TVs a survivor shut down are highlighted in a different colour?
This would already make TV tracking a lot easier.
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Weekend?
Weekend.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914504#Comment_3914504
Thanks for the nice words. It means a lot here on the forums.
Passive condemned could work on the current version, but it would have to be a lot less effective than in her first version. It would need a to apply condemned very slowly and only after a long time, otherwise it would just be unfair and survivors would get punished whatever they do.
Destroy tapes without giving them condemned is fine too. It giving condemned in 2.0 was just unhealthy and gave survivors no real counterplay.
@Skitten56 always suggested to remove TV auras when they hold a tape. This would nice, however, I still think survivors shouldn‘t see TV auras (except the one where they need to put their tape).
@radiantHero23 also suggested making delivering tapes take longer like you. Agree with both of you. 1 second is too short. It was 2 seconds before they changed it. 1.5 or 2 seconds would both be fine to me. If they change that they should also apply the same time to turning off TVs, which currently is 0,5 seconds.
I 100% agree with that. The cooldown without Stbfl is long enough (back with 2 seconds), for the survivor to put the tape in safely.
It was only possible to prevent that at 6 stacks or higher. You need to build those stacks up. This is effort put in by the killer for a reward. Negating a tape to be inserted was often a culmination of a lot of events happening, almost all of them involving the Sadako-player playing well. This should be rewarded, not punished.
Tape insertion should be 2 seconds.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914508#Comment_3914508
For me she was a good and fun chaser back then. I don‘t need a killer with a huge anti loop power to consider her that way. She made up for that with her mobility for me and if you played her well she was very strong that way with iri tape.
About the tp to turned off TVs. Like you said, I wouldn‘t want her to spread condemned there as well, but I would make the TV you teleported to turn back on afterwards, so it gives a little benefit to condemned. I don‘t think this is too much, however I wouldn‘t need the last Part.
I don‘t agree with you about old old iri tape like we discussed in the past. It was great for mobility and they could have kept it for mobility by making it worthless for condemned. There is no reason not to do that and it was definitely not too strong in her first version. You can argue about it making a way too big difference between playing that addon and not playing it back then, but that could have been solved by making it partially basekik. Strength wise it was fair for survivors at that time.
I don‘t know why you mention you try to be fair to both sides. It is kinda implying that I‘m not doing that and I am trying do the same as you. Sure I‘m suggesting strong stuff, but I‘m not suggesting anything unfair.
I was responding to why moderators are sometimes replying to my suggestions. Many peoples suggestions are drastic and very biased.
I did by no means want to imply that you are one of these people. Excuse me if I made it sound like that.
I don't think a TV should turn on after TP to it. TP has currently no cooldown (which is good) this means you could constantly TP to tvs to keep them on. That's too strong. Condemned has a cooldown that is tied to tvs being turned off. That's fair. As I mentioned before, this is an insta kill mechanic and therefore difficult to balance. Small changes like this would make a big difference imo.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914479#Comment_3914479
„Sadako is not a chaser“ The thing is she once was very good at chasing. Not like blight but she had one of if not the best mobility abilities. You could play her very well that way.
„I feel for you and want to help you, I just don't know if I can.“ The only thing I really need is no TV auras, being able to teleport to turned off TVs and a change to her lullaby (no longer directional or/and smaller radius).
I don‘t know if you seen my suggestion for iri tape. It basically allows you to teleport to turned off TVs and turns them on after you teleported to them, but doesn‘t spread condemned when doing so. If this addon got changed like that it would be huge or if they change current iri tape that it removes TV auras and survivors can‘t interact with them would be nice as well.
If you want to help and suggest something. A addon that solves those 3 parts is all I need or they fix those things basekit. The other things I always suggest in my feedback aren‘t needed even tho I would like them. For some reason I feel like the devs listen a lot more to you than to me and others. Mandy even responded to you directly about your critic and she normally never responds to anyone about balance things.
No. She wasn't a good chaser back then. She never was. She had mobility yes. But mobility = strong chase. If blight could not attack after a rush he would be similar to what sadako was back then. Sadako still has one of the best mobility powers in the game. You just have to fight for it compared to her first iteration, where condemned was so weak that survivors generally ignored tvs alltogether. Now that condemned is strong, survivors can't ignore tvs. Thats logical to me.
The auras I can get by…
TP to a TV that is turned off? Yes with a drawback though. If you TP to a turned off TV, NOTHING spreads condemned. Not the tv you TP'd to and no other turned on TV. Everything else would be too much. If that's the payoff, then, yes. That would be a good change imo. Not too strong but helpful.
IRI tape was so dumb back then because it enabled to constantly spread condemn without much counter. That's why I'm against it ever making a return. It was way too strong.
I always try to be fair for both sides. Dbd is a pvp game. Therefore things need to be seen from both sides when something changes. Sadako is a very difficult killer to balance due to condemned. Small changes can, similar to good piggy, make her too strong or too weak.
I think your idea: you can TP to a TV that is turned off but spread no condemned whatsoever in the process is an ok idea that would need to be tested though. I might be wrong and it could be too strong if made basekit. But as an iri addon? Definitely fine by me and 100% worth to be tested.
Sadly we have not seen massive changes to her addons ever since she came out, soooo.... I dont get my hopes up.
Edit: I personally still want the tape insertion time to be reset to what it was. Being able to interrupt tape inserts was a good thing and a fair thing.
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@SoGo said:
Question, why are you even here? Like, in this forum, playing this game, etc.
Why, if you hate the company so much?
Like, you don't have to be here, TCM is right over there if you want asym horror.
Too much time?
I just realized, it's weekend too xD
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914466#Comment_3914466
The thing I feel with Sadako is like the team you play against have to make mistakes for you to win.. in chase, or for not picking tapes. You can't win most of the time because you did well
Same I want to win because I did well and not because my opponents lack knowledge on a killer and I want the mobility from her first version back, which they robbed her by forcing survivors to turn off TVs.
That‘s what I‘m suggesting to make her more fun for both sides again:
The thing I enjoyed the most about her:
When playing as her you had the best mobility (at the time) in the game and you felt like you were at all places at the same time. (This was sadly no longer possible since her first rework.) Also at the time the visual heart beat wasn‘t yet introduced, which made her stealth a lot better.
On the survivor side I loved how scary she was and therefore bought her. You were never certain where she exactly were and always feared her coming out of nowhere, be out of an TV next to you or just appearing behind a corner. The thing is her lullaby is almost not noticeable and without the visual heartbeat you didn‘t notice she was there until it was to late at a lot of times. This made her very different and exciting to a lot of killers to face for me.
The major difference why I‘m still advocating for 1.0s design is, it discouraged taking tapes, which left your TVs online almost all of the match. Survivors only took tapes if they had to remove condemned or feared her coming out of an TV next to you. Since 2.0 and also in 3.0 survivors are forced to turn off TVs, which makes her unable to have this map traversal. The only real difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is that survivors who understand her can nullify her power and survivors who don’t understand her will get condemned insanely fast.
I think this is where we disagree. Survivors can only nullify your power if you let them do it.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914449#Comment_3914449
It doesn‘t have to do anything with winning. I just find it frustrating, that you can never use your teleport, because survivor shut TVs down at all times when they understand her. Same with condemned. They can disable it completely at all times. This just isn’t fun.
I see it in my games all of the time. When not playing much I face only people that don’t do anything to counter her. Easy win. Then sometimes I face one team, that completely nullifies any options to use all game long. I don’t enjoy completely dominating and being completely dominated depending on whether or not the survivors know how she works. The more I play her the more I get those teams and she only becomes frustrating to play. I didn’t get such teams much if I switched between killers, but if you only play her ….
I would be fine with losing all my matches if it was fun.
What I mean is, if mmr works somewhat consistently, I should face very strong teams. I also perceive my teams as really strong due to my experience with teams that I've build over my time playing this game. The people I face are not bad by any means.
Don't take this the wrong way, but where are you while they turn your tvs off? Chasing? Then you give them the tvs for free. Sadako is not a chaser. That's why my playstyle works so well imo. I rarely chase with her. I only commit if I know I get a hit / down / stack / pallet. Then I leave. I fight for my tvs more than my gens and this keeps them on consistently.
I really need to start recording my games again don't I?
I feel for you and want to help you, I just don't know if I can.
@Haseyana said:
The thing I feel with Sadako is like the team you play against have to make mistakes for you to win.. in chase, or for not picking tapes. You can't win most of the time because you did well, is just because they played bad, that's what I find so frustrating.
I don't exactly know which changes exactly needs her.. because I wish she had a "fun" chase power like Wesker, but that's just my personal opinion.
Just.. I think now doesn't feel well to play with, at least that's what I feel, because I need survs to play mistakes, I depend on map too..
Also: Doesn't have chase power, the mobility is managed by survivors, and your power which is condemn depends on map, and again, they making mistakes..
And yes you can turn them off sometimes and prevent them to shut off your tv's, but if they are coordinated, they are going to pick all the other 3 tapes they are working on.
The thing is.. I want to win because I did it well, not because they did it bad
I win despite them playing good. Everyone makes mistakes. Nobody plays perfect all the time. Not me, not your survivors and DEFINITELY not comp players. Trust me, I know.
I think I know where your issue with her lies. You play her as a stealth killer and chase people. Sadako is not a chase oriented killer. She's a killer with a strategic skill ceiling that suffers from chasing. Your power gives you mobility, slowdown and lethality. You power is the tvs. Not demanifestation or invisibility mindgames. Those just help you by playing your tvs.
If you start to chase people, they will abuse that and you will lose very fast. This is why I very rarely commit to a chase with her. I dont give them power over my tvs. I fight for them.
Sadako's condemned works on almost every map. Some worse, some give you free wins (Gideon meat plant). My hardest map is probably Ormond. Even Erie isn't that hard to play as her. She is not that map dependent imo. If you, sorry this might sound harsh, just chase people, then yes. She struggles extremely hard. You try to force her to be something she's not.
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914422#Comment_3914422
I always appreciate someone who takes the time to make a long post walking through everything.
I haven't played Sadako nearly as much as you, though I run a somewhat similar build (though I almost never run a consistent build). I usually put on Sloppy because slowing down those heals help, and will use Surveillance instead of Discordance (though I'll probably give it a try, I see the benefit of not kicking gens).
I ran Hex: Face the Darkness on her as more of a 'let's just throw something random on' and yeah, that's a really helpful perk.
!!! IMPORTANT: REMEMBER EACH TV YOU SHUT OFF AND EACH TV THAT YOU HAVE NOT SHUT OFF. IT REVEALS WHERE SURVIVORS ARE!!!Playing this to perfection is not easy and demands a lot of focus and concentration. Playing Sadako often stresses me out more than any other killer.I think this is a really important point. The difference between the skill floor and skill ceiling is a lot greater and more gradual on Sadako than it is some other killers. Keeping track of the TVs gives a ton of info, but it does take a lot more focus.
Always glad to help. I love playing Sadako and want others to see how strong she can be as well. I don't mind taking the time to explain.
I think Sadako has one of the most hard to grasp skill ceilings in the game. She's easy to pick up and play, as she is indeed a noob stomper. She also seems simple on the surface, which doesn't make it any better. The aspect of a strategic skill ceiling is something only few killers have and it's a skill that dbd doesn't teach or explain at all. It's not easy to learn or master her because there is so little info about what to master in the first place. A lot of trial and error.
Pig is very similar to this. Mandy however has a decent chase power with a mechanical skill ceiling. Something Sadako lacks.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914458#Comment_3914458
He will soon be gone.
Its definitely sad to see that some people here can't behave themselves.
Anyway...
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@highpingmeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914451#Comment_3914451
So you're the dipshit who nuked sadako. Thanks for nothing, chimp.
Glad to help.
Nice insult mate. Keep it going.
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@highpingmeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914447#Comment_3914447
You're wasting your time. Make your own asymmetrical game that is better than dbd.
I helped to make the third iteration of Sadako happen through exactly this kind of discussion right here on the forums. I don't think I'm wasting my time.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914440#Comment_3914440
I‘ve read a lot of it and I know your opinion on her. It still doesn‘t change a thing about my argument and this character. She is only working because survivors either ignore her counterplay, don‘t know it or underestimate her. If survivors actually do what they are supposed to, all your stuff wouldn‘t work and you would have a completely different opinion. The only thing that makes her viable is the her noob stomper character.
How often do I need to win then? I very rarely lost with her FOR YEARS now. A majority of people I face have comp all over their profile.
Does nobody understand the counterplay then?
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@highpingmeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914434#Comment_3914434
They should nerf onryo so you finally shut up.
Very constructive. We are discussing her to make her better. Why not contribute?
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@Langweilig said:
@radiantHero23 The only reason why current Sadako performs halfway decent is her low pick rate and survivors not understanding her, which both works together insanely well out for her. If survivors would do her counterplay, she would be insanely trash to play. If you don‘t have a good m1 map and if survivors use the extreme advantage they have over her whole ability, Sadako will lose against any well looping survivor team.
The only reason why her ability works is because you can abuse the fact that some people don’t know her counterplay.
Please read what I've written above. It works.
Edit: her strongest map is awful for most m1 killers. She's borderline broken on it.
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Mind you, I don't think she is perfect. She does need changes.
- Most her addons are STILL awful despite us criticizing them over and over with each rework.
- Putting in a tape is still too fast. You can't stop it if the survivor is healthy. Full stacks sbtfl should be able to stop it.
- Bloody fingernails should be made partially basekit to further enhance her chase and make her less dependent on the addon.
These are the problems, that instantly come to my mind. There are more changes I could come up with of course.
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@Haseyana said:
If you say you rarely lose, I'm just so surprised, because I can't win more than five in a row with this last second rework.
I try to punish them as you say chasing the ones who has a tape, but, usually I got the comp Ace or Nea which just pre run when they hear my lullaby to a decent loop (and I talk now in decent maps like Azarov and Macmillan) and it takes to me like a minute to get a hit, and if I drop chase and I go to chase someone else, they just heal and go back to repair, and if the other survivors are decent aswell I got the same. It's always the same, they pick a tape, maybe I get one hit, and maybe I try to go for condemn, but guess what, the other survivors turned off their tv's aswell, so I don't get a down and I don't get anything basically.
So I can't understand how you get a 4 gen condemn if they are competitive, because it happens what I just said, it's impossible.
And I forgot to mention what you said before that she has the best mobility, and I have to disagree again. Because survivors can remove your mobility, and there is Hillbilly wich has better mobility all game and instadown, there is also Dracula, Ghoul, (with first free hit) Blight with the second most strong anti loop in the game, etc…
If you like this version of Sadako it's ok, but I'm not talking about if I like her or not, I'm talking about that if you get a strong survivors in a decent map you will be destroyed and you can't do nothing about it.
All you have to do is look for comp teams againts Sadako, or 1v1's against her (some of that videos are even 7 minutes chases)
And I saw the world record holder Onepumpwillie loosing with very average teams aswell.
So, again, it's ok if you like the way she is, but what I am saying are facts, and a killer like this can't be in the game who the survivors control all your power and you can't do anything about it.
Back then, I learned alongside Willie. I had the 3rd highest condemned back then. Sadly it's not the chase anymore, because I stopped playing her after the first rework only to come back after they partially revered that terrible change.
I can give you some advice to how I play, as my game plan is simple yet effective.
Build:
- Stbfl
- Surge
- Hex: face the darkness
- Discordance
Addons:
- Ring drawing
- Bloody fingernails
The core structure of almost all my games:
- Start by traversing the map looking for survivors. Try to get one hit in to activate face the darkness. If not, no problem, no pressure. If Discordance pops, don't go there. Wait for the tv to pop up next to the Gen and immediately TP for two stacks. You should be first if your on point, as the animation of a survivor can be interrupted by a TP (very important!) Then, either you get a hit or you TP somewhere else. To as often as possible to shut tvs off.
!!! IMPORTANT: REMEMBER EACH TV YOU SHUT OFF AND EACH TV THAT YOU HAVE NOT SHUT OFF. IT REVEALS WHERE SURVIVORS ARE!!!
- Start applying pressure. Show them that they need to deal with your power excessively. Your are faster on tvs than they are as they have an animation and you don't. When sadako shuts off a TV, a survivor can only put a tape into it. Not get one from it. Therefore the cooldown on those tvs is shorter. You as Sadako have to decide what chases to take and which not. It's a win if you get a stack. It's a win if you get a hit. It's a win if you get a pallet or down. Never let them decide where you go. If you keep up to date on tvs and their cooldowns, you will be able to move super freely around the map, enabling the strongest hit and run playstyle in dbd. Strong because it can very often end in a mori.
- How to play after a tp: immediately demanifest if you dont get a hit. Look where the other survivors are and TP there. Repeat that. Poke at them. If you haven't mastered tracking survivor movement speed, don't worry. That's what face the darkness is there for. It gives you constant information on where people are and where you CAN apply pressure.
- Tips for chases: chase them to tvs and get stacks. Don't shy away from leaving someone. If you got a hit and they heal, you wasted their time. If you got a stack, that's progress they have to try to get rid off. Poke at their recourses. Keep in mind, that bodyblocks don't work against you. That's an incredible strength against coordinated teams that take hits. In these bodyblocks situations, you can again make decisions. Down the person that you want to down or get stacks on them via tvs. Most survivors, even the very good ones focus on chase. Especially when they bodyblocks for others. They try to get to the next loop and never look for tvs in proximity. One survivor dodging a TV is realistic. 2 survivors that are bodyblocking for each other? They are less aware and take the stacks over a down. Mistake on their part imo. You have enough experience on her that I dont have to tell you much about her invisibility mindgames or stun-denial. Important is though: almost always be demanifested. I only manifest if I'm certain that I will get a hit.
It's very important that you know how to use the map to your advantage. Spots whrlere you can see more of the map are vital to track survivors and potentially deny them putting or grabbing tapes.
Playing this to perfection is not easy and demands a lot of focus and concentration. Playing Sadako often stresses me out more than any other killer.
My result: I win a majority of my games.
It's amusing how often teams that have comp all over their profile fall apart and lose their coordination due to constant hit and run aggression. If one of them fall, they all do.
The build I told you is extremely good to learn her and is also very strong if you mastered this playstyle.
- Stbfl enhances your chase potential. As Sadako gets every hit with m1, this perk is vital.
- Discordance provides info. Always. If it doesn't activate, it gives you info where survivors are as it does when it's active. Free stacks.
- Surge is the best slowdown perk on her, as it slows down gens while you do your stuff. It helps you to focus on applying pressure to survivors and not to gens (never thought about that funnily enough.)
- Hex: face the darkness the best learning perk on her, as it provides constant information. If they shut it off via healing? Good. More time wasted on their part. They want to stay healed, as Sadako is a stealth killer. They stay injured? Free info. Extremely strong. They destroy your totem? More time wasted and you should have enough pressure and info on them at this point anyway.
I dont have to explain the addons, do I?
I sadly don't have any gameplay recorded, as I've run into problems with that in the past, but I can do that for you if you need it :).
If you have any questions or need further advice on how to play this way, feel free to ask, I love to help.
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@Haseyana said:
First of all, if you get a mori every match, I'm sorry, but you are not at high level, or you are in one of her best maps, because condemn is the easiest thing to avoid, just pick a tape, and chill repairing, and you can go traveling and shuting down tv's and deliver your tape removing your condemn, and her mobility in the process.
Even tho if you got the miracle of puting someone on full condemn, it will cost you like 2 gens to down him if they are efficient, because you don't have power chase at all, and at this point, the game is pretty much over.
And I'm not saying I never have any tv's, I have some, but if they pick their tapes on their gens, my tv's are useless because they don't inflict condemn and I have to travel to their gen with the turn off tv and they will prerun because Sadako have a nonesense lullaby.
If you say that is your experience, I can't say more, but, again, when you face really good teams, you are gonna be powerless.
I very rarely lose with her (am literally unbeaten on one map with one exception where I literally faced a comp team with a meme build. That match was even close because Gideon meat plant is that busted for her.)
If mmr works even close to how it should be, i should be in the high mmr bracket with her. Most people I see have above 5k hours with a lot of them having comp stuff on their steam profile.
Sure she has bad maps, as every killer has.
"just pick a tape, and chill repairing." Why are you letting them get tapes that easy? Why are you not punishing them for grabbing tapes by chasing them? Ring drawing works wonders for that.
Sadako is the most aggressive hit and run killer in this game. Keep tvs on your side and monitor survivor movement. Track condemned stacks on each survivor to know where to push your pressure effectively.
I get people fully condemned at 4-3 gens remaining. In most games, not just one condemned pops but multiple at the same time. Mind you, you don't have to throw the game just to get that one survivor. If they are very decent at looping / have a strong set up, you can very much throw your game for chasing them. If that's the case. Focus on the others but keep track on them. They waste time getting rid of condemned and more often than not outposition themselves. Getting their condemned max after they got rid of the 7 stacks is not that hard. You'll get them there again in no time.
How to play sadako in a nutshell: you poke at the team from every side until something breaks. When it breaks, the whole team falls. Trust me, they fall very often.
I play against your strong teams. I dont feel powerless. I win most of these games. Just takes concentration, focus and fast decision making.
It's more than with almost every other killer though. The only other killer that takes that much on high level is Pig. Compared to Pig though, Sadako has a way petter early game. Pig has stronger slowdown and chase.
Both are decent killers. I main them for a reason.
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Hehe hehe...
I was called upon. 🐽
Sorry but have to disagree.
I mained her, next to Pig, ever since she came out and stopped playing when she got her first rework due to how awful she was to play and play against.
I have her at p100 as well. Learned playing her alongside famous content creator(s) (without ring drawing, iri tape and slugging) and pushed #bringbackSadako here on the forums until we finally got her 3rd iteration.
I have not run into a group I felt entirely powerless against. Maybe that's my playstyle, but it shows that she can perform at higher level.
The Pig slander is just... Ok. Disagree as well.
Both killers can perform decently well at higher levels. I get a head pop every 3rd to 4th game and a mori with Sadako literally every game.
I'm not a magician. I just play into both killers strategic strengths while not pushing my luck with their weaknesses (chase).
I dont have any of the problems you are describing. I'm really sorry, but if your not having any tvs to use that's partially your fault. Sadako's map mobility is unrivaled in dbd, enableing map / survivor tracking throughout any match. The skill ceiling of Sadako (and also to Pig to some extend) is to use that information to your advantage. I've seen so many sadako's NOT use this information at all.
I know how this sounds but it's my experience. The experience I've gained in around 2k+ hours on Pig and around 1k+ on Sadako.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914252#Comment_3914252
Oh you are gonna care when your queue times reach 30 minutes because no one wants to play killer because of how miserable it will be. Im probably done and that is a sentiment I have seen shared by others as well.
I think I've been through much worse in this game. Still gonna continue to main Pig and Sadako as if my life depends on it.
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@TieBreaker said:
Sorry man, but Choy's already released a video saying things are so bad he's probably done playing killer.
Let the hysteria begin.
Hysteria! A content creator is unhappy. Next.
@Bodark said:
Nobody like to single handedly lose a match they were winning to a cheap perk. I have lost several matches due to Shoulder alone. 1 survivor in death hook two gens left and they get Shouldered and all of the sudden I have no one on death hook and lose all pressure. It’s rare yeah but that’s because the majority of players aren’t good. I used STB in solo queue and it’s definitely still I saw. And it is very effective at making a killer who is already struggling lose completely.
Duty of Care is the same. It will be rare, but will be annoying in those few scenarios where it comes into play. Especially in the end game. Literal free escape. No skill needed no talent needed.
Old Adrenaline was the same. I never got upset though. I never counted those games as a loss because that perk was ridiculously broken. Absolutely absurd to come out of a hook at full health with a SIX second sprintburst. Especially when survivors were crying about slugging when that’s exactly what adrenaline encouraged.
If a perk rarely sees use, then that perk is situationally strong. This description fits most survivor perks as them being consistently strong can result in perks that are too strong if 4 bring it (dh, mft, coh,...). These consistently perks can become a problem if not properly balanced.
Situationally strong perks however don't run uni this issue that much, because they are in nature not as strong. While they provide incredible value in specific situations, these situations occur in like 2/10 games. Shoulder the burden is one of these perks, as is borrowed time, this new perk and many more.
In regard to your example with free escapes in end game. Borrowed time does the exact same thing. Do people run it? No. This perk is, imo, a bit stronger, as it has no unhook requirement and can therefore be used more freely throughout the match. I see that as a good thing though. Perk variety is something good, as it changes up the gameplay. A perk needs to be worth using without being too strong.
Is duty of care worth using? I think so yes. Is it too strong? Remains to be seen. If yes, it needs to be adjusted.
Last but not least: what skill and talent are you talking about in end game scenarios? Bodyblocking is showing talent now? It's as much skill, imo, as a killer hitting a survivor off hook (back with no basekit bt) and hooking them again immediately.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913664#Comment_3913664
Xeno got nerfed within 2 weeks, and all they did was roll back a buff it got from PTB. It wasn't even a severe nerf, it just made it so Xenomorph actually got punished for missing instead of being able to throw out YOLO tail strikes.
Chucky was one of the best killers in the game for an entire year, then got over-nerfed, but got buffed again in the Ghoul patch.
Dracula got buffed after release, and then all they did was half-revert the buff and nerf Medusa Hair. Dracula is still one of the strongest killers in the game.
Xeno was bugged on release. Thats why the cooldown was almost not existent. They nerfed it AND fixed the bug. It was pretty severe and intoduced a problem Xeno has to this day: the hitbox not aligning with the animation in many cases. This made the killer very frustrating to play.
Chucky got his skill ceiling lowered dramaticaly just shortly after release in that they limited his turn rate when attacking in slice & dice. I know people that stopped playing him for that reason alone because he felt watered down for them. He was still incredibly strong, yes, but that made him a lot less interesting for a good amount of people. Then they removed an entire aspect of his kit afterwards but lets not get into that for too long.
This is not about strenght. Its about what the customer expects from a product. A killer releases in a very poowerful / busted state = many people start enjoy playing them and grow accustom to their mechanics and power. Then the killer gets (rightfully) adjusted and people feel unhappy. Its a trend at this point and not one that im too fond of.
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@Shaun2196 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913655#Comment_3913655
Not the same thing as having a perk be ridiculous in PTB vs in real game so hold up on whining on that one lol
And "this has been the well known easy" - wut? This is a response to Ghoul so stop pretending and … make more sense
@NarkoTri1er is right here.
It is a trend that some killers release in an overtuned state and swiftly get nerfed after release. Xeno, Chucky and Dracula all had their powers nerfed.
While this is not consumer friendly practice imo. This seems to be the way things go now.
Last survivor perk that got released in an overtuned state was mft and that long overstayed it's welcome. In that regard, BHVR has gotten much better as it's been a while since end transmission.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911777#Comment_3911777
All of the Perks are pretty bad. Honestly, they should have released the Survivor without any Perks.
I mean, with Rapid Response you can see the Killer at the start of the game if you run an Exhaustion Perk like Dramaturgy or Sprint Burst…But still, not good.
I think the first (Do no Harm) is a decent anti tunnel perk. Especially when paired with stuff like resurgence.
The second perk (Duty of Care) is (sadly) incredibly strong in a swf group and decent in soloq.
The third perk (Rapid Response) is a great idea but needs its seconds increased a bit. Should have good synergy with other exhaustion perks as well as eyes of belmond.
All around, these dont sound terrible to me. Not extremely strong, but a welcome addition and something I could very much see myself using.
Especially after we got stuff like treacherous crows, this doesnt seem nearly as bad.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911216#Comment_3911216
I get that, i think my previous message was misunderstood and some people saw it offensive, again im sorry for that, this was not what i intended. What i ment was that i think they have ruined Pig (sadly) to a point where her unique power dosnt matter.
All good. Have this 👉️🐽
Because what makes Pig unique is her RBT´s, I agree. Them doing absolutely nothing ruins the Pig to a decent amount during this event.
I see no reason to play Pig in the event mode at all, especially when the player can chose between event and not-event. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911074#Comment_3911074
but why not just play ghost face?
Cause Piggy 🐽