oecrophy
oecrophy
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@bleep275 said:
"feels too punishing for killer". Yall ever log into a match as survivor just to get tunneled out at 5 gens as punishment for playing survivor so you cant actually play the game?
If tunnel at 5 gens is even a thing, your team already hard misplayed. Not just the first chase target (who had plenty of resources), but the whole squad. On a short first chase, before the unhook and before “tunnel” is even on the table, you should have at least 2 gens done. If you don’t, that’s macro failure.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998776#Comment_3998776
what i was saying was if you faced survivors who at least knew how to rush gens you were screwed not even good loopers since survivors objective and killers aren't the same
add on more pallet density on top of regression as a whole getting nerfed for a garbage version of pop (pop has been garbage since 6.1.0) second chance perks elusive and the fact that anti tunnel changes along with the anti slug changed (if survivors have basekit unbreakable they won't bother picking each other up since they can pick themselves up meaning survivors don't need to get off gens)
it's an auto lose for killer unless the survivors are so bad their new
1:1 my PTB experience.Once survivors have a bit of experience, it’s basically an auto-loss for Killer.
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@Ramanga said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998722#Comment_3998722
Very much this. The people who slug and tunnel do so because they aren't able to get kills playing any other way.
Nah.
I slug and tunnel because that’s the most fun part of the game—when both sides go all-in, no holdbacks.
I’d be 100% down for a ranked mode too; I’d wait longer queues for ranked than for a normal match. -
@bleep275 said:
The issue is the influx of hyper-competitive players. One thing matter and one thing only…ego. They NEED that dopamine hit to hit. the validation of dominating another human. The "winning isnt everything"….they skipped that day in pre-school. Only way to make this community focused on mutual exchanges of enjoyment and respect is to remove any aspect of "tournament e-sports" kids. Playing to win is fine, everyone does that. But his community takes it way to far and acts like their next meal depends on a 4k or making the killer DC. Comp is the death of casual enjoyment and laughter and I will die on that hill.
Cme on. Don’t moralize “playing to win.” People follow incentives, not sermons. Goofy matches work when all five opt in—pubs don’t guarantee that. If tunneling/pressure is the safest line, players will take it; fix systems, not people. Give us lanes for both styles: a real ranked vs. casual split. Improve alternatives to tunnel (fewer dead zones, some filler tiles back, tiny ability-safe unhook window, better SoloQ info). Balance with richer data than killrate—chase length, tile chainability,
It isn’t courteous to assume “dominance needs,” low motives, or bad upbringing just because someone plays to win. Critique behaviors and systems, not people. In PvP, optimization is normal; if pressure tools dominate, that’s a design/incentive issue. Some of us simply enjoy hard-fought matches where both sides give everything—that isn’t “dominance,” it’s a preference. And it’s just as rude to go personal against competitive players as it would be to bash folks who want to goof and play casual. Keep it to design and sportsmanship: fix maps/tile economy/solo info or offer a ranked vs casual split—don’t moralize the players.
I’m still shocked and a bit sad at how little hesitation there is to go personal in this community — just because some of us play to win and optimize.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997733#Comment_3997733
Hard disagree. I used to run chest gremlin builds years ago, and some of my most memorable games I've had were games where I got value from multiple items I found in chests in the same game. As killer i had plenty of games where I just didn't worry about hooks or kills and let survivors get as much time doing locker blinds as possible (back when that was a thing)
The game is at its best when you feel you have the liberty to be goofy, to enjoy all the mechanics the game has to offer. Current DBD feels like you have to be hypersweating the objective and fun is only something you're allowed to have if your opponent is weak enough to allow you to have fun in between rushing objectives
The question is: what should a PvP game balance around? The folks who want to do chest-stuff and goof around? Just-for-fun meme plays? That’s like going into Hunt: Showdown with mid/low ammo and sawn-offs while everyone else runs long-ammo meta. If you meme in PvP, you usually die the moment the other side brings more. PvP is an arms race on both sides. You don’t balance around memes.
DBD already has plenty of outlets for fun/meme time—events, rotating modes every few weeks, etc. Balance should aim for competitive integrity and healthy baseline gameplay, not “let me goof off and still win.” It’s all super tricky, sure, but building around memes just makes the core worse.
.. idk (again) :/
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997733#Comment_3997733
Hard disagree. I used to run chest gremlin builds years ago, and some of my most memorable games I've had were games where I got value from multiple items I found in chests in the same game. As killer i had plenty of games where I just didn't worry about hooks or kills and let survivors get as much time doing locker blinds as possible (back when that was a thing)
The game is at its best when you feel you have the liberty to be goofy, to enjoy all the mechanics the game has to offer. Current DBD feels like you have to be hypersweating the objective and fun is only something you're allowed to have if your opponent is weak enough to allow you to have fun in between rushing objectives
Ye, legit call. Everyone should be able to play how they want. And I get that it sucks if you want a different vibe and you get me in your lobby — it’s basically a free loss if the killer just sweats. I don’t want those players in my lobby either, killer or survivor.
What tilts me is BHVR already trying to reshape KYF so “comp” folks can keep doing comp and still come in? Sorry, but that makes me feel pushed out — forced into Discord LFG with strangers, in some new “mode” that’s cut off from normal progression. Why? Just because I like playing efficient for the win?
and ouuwh… yes, i do tunnel at five gens up if it really lines up.
And it’s not only on one side. People here love to paint me as the evil killermain, but I do it on survivor too — I try to deny the killer’s pressure as much as possible. I dont give my teammates for free. and i enjoy being tunneled.
and I play both sides super active—and honestly I’d probably be more of a surv tbh if I consistently got halfway decent teammates, plus fair hits and better ping. still play survivor very actively.
so uhm.. “goof a bit” is fun—safe safe.
i understand you 100%, but balancing by removing killer’s legit reaction tools while pushing custom-game limiters and calling it “comp” (aka “normal” to me) is upside down.
many ppl feel this already; fresh players will too when the “protections” turn into boredom.
idk :/
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997733#Comment_3997733
While I do appreciate your viewpoint and certainly see where you’re coming from, I do feel like you’re missing out on the bigger picture a bit
As I said, if the Killer and the Survivor are having fun tunnelling/getting tunnelled, that still leaves the 3 other survivors who aren’t getting to have that same fun, and the issue also comes that if the Killer tunnels someone to death and that person uses up most of the map’s resources, well, what do the other 3 have to work with? The match is essentially already over before anyone else gets to really play if the Tunnelled survivor dies before enough gens are done, the other 3 have nothing to work with and are basically stuck in a dead game while the killer picks them off
I do agree that the game is fun when both sides are actually trying, but I do feel like that needs to come with the asterisk of “Also playing fairly”, meaning that they’re all playing in a way where everyone has a chance to show off their skills rather then the game ending almost instantly, those kinds of games are great, but the mentality of “I must win no matter what and to hell what the other side thinks” is one I really wish the community would let go ofWinning is great, it should not come at the cost of making matches worse
the 3 other survivors who aren’t getting to have that same fun
Yup—on the games where I tunnel or get tunneled, it usually goes faster. The other three survivors still get interaction outside the tunnel. The days where one survivor holds the killer for 5 gens are gone. Either the tunneled player dies earlier, or the team actually gets to play: cover, smart bodyblocks, teamplay to buy them air to reach the next tile. Depending on the tunneled player’s skill, both paths can make sense. Good teamplay can make a hard tunnel hard. Covering a strong, stable chaser is often worth the minute you’re not on a gen.
I’m OG—I’ve seen every era. The bigger problem to me isn’t “tunnel bad,” it’s the map reworks being overcooked. Lots of maps still have strong main structures, but the filler tiles in between are gone, so the survivor can’t chain to the next resource. RNG can be nasty. Add scuffed hits you sometimes eat as survivor (netcode/ping), and you’ve got maybe one or two mistakes before you’re on the floor (pray for perks). Then there’s all the anti-chase killers/perks where the most efficient counter is early Shift + early calls.
So it’s not always “hard tunnel” that feels awful—sometimes even good survivors just don’t find resources to fight back because the tile economy or RNG isn’t there. Some reworks went too far. Then pile high ping on top.
That’s what makes tunnel moments feel worse than the tunnel itself. only my POV: We don’t need to roll back to the old days, but cranking gen pressure and trimming tiles so chases must be ultra short was a weird call. What’s the fun part of DBD? The chase. Not M1 on a gen. And on killer side, “no time, drop chase early, maybe catch someone at a gen in a dead zone” is way more frustrating to me than tunneling. Absolute dead zones at match start shouldn’t exist.
maps and stuff are hard to change, even for survivor side. habits are burned in on both sides. and y, survivors push gens like there’s no tomororw, cuz that’s often the only thing that keeps them alive in dbd 2025. pressure vs tempo, same old dance.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998158#Comment_3998158
Do you play on NA servers? If it's not a secret, of course.
is this really such a huge region thing..?
i think it’s simply: are you, as a kiler, ready to use all your tools or not.
and the time matters a lot. nights = the “better” players are out.
but sitll.. i play eu nighttime, a bit higher killrate (then bhvr is aimin for) EU servers, night shift (0:00+). it’s about how hard you go and how much of the kiler kit you deploy. i don’t handicap myself for pubs.
that’s why i don’t rate kilrates much. it’s how you play and what you allow
rates shows exactly zero about what happened during this match .. i man.. Plenty of strong squads will throw endgame because they refuse to leave one teammate behind
Killrate tells something, but not what you need for balance. If BHVR leans on it (and only looking at this stats..) , that’s a huge misstep.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456128/lets-share-our-kill-rate-stats
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ECDUJ6XFN3AS/image.png
Highest Killrate
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1LCD48PDGOSJ/image.png
Lowest Killrate
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PCSQUUHQ1787/image.png
Most played Killers
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z9RD22TQJD3S/image.png
Huntress Stats
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L9J91VAI21LZ/image.png
General Killer Stats
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XD3M0PYWOCFC/image.png
Most played Perks
Should be enough numbers for you to look at xDohhw, love to see someone else likes to play huntress a lot <3 :D
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997640#Comment_3997640
There is a wide spectrum between playing like 4Ks are the only thing keeping you alive and a "casual, I don't care" playstyle.
One can play to win as killer and succeed most of the time and never hard tunnel or slug everyone, even at higher MMR. Maybe not as a low tier killer, but the ridiculous killer power imbalance is massive issue that needs to be addressed independently of tunneling/camping.
this "wide spectrum between" is most of the time a big gamble at high MMR, and I don’t like coin flips.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
This has been something that has been on my mind for a while but has come up again with the 9.2.0 PTB. I already spoke my mind about what I think about the new content and the changes being made but if you didn't read that, here's the TLDR, I think the anti-tunnel and anti-slug systems are a good thing in spirit, they were just way too harsh and rather ham-fisted, punishing unhealthy playstyles is a good thing, but punishing gameplay most of the community can agree is perfectly fine isn't.
So with the outcry being enough that the anti-tunnel and anti-slug won't be coming to live, I noticed that a lot of people seem to, at least in my opinion, misinterpret the intent behind them, that being that the devs want to punish the Killer for trying to win.
Let me make my thoughts on that line of thinking clear. I've been playing for almost 3k hours, most of that time is on Killer, and I do not think any Killer regardless of their strength specifically needs to tunnel someone out at the start of the game in order to win, especially not a S tier killer like Nurse or Blight. Hooks and Kills are not the only way a Killer can generate pressure and slow down Survivors, simply downing somebody is already knocking someone out of the game until they can be picked up, keeping them busy with things like Infection systems on some killers as well forces people off of generators, hell simply chasing them generates pressure because that's one less person doing the objective, if you are playing Blight with Quad Slowdown and both Speed Addons and think you need to kill someone at 5 gens to stand a chance at winning then you are not nearly as good or as knowledgeable at Killer as you think you are. If a Survivor is playing aggressively and very clearly wants to be chased then by all means go for them, but you don't need to kill someone as soon as possible in order to win.
As far as I am concerned, regardless of its strength, Tunnelling is one of the unhealthiest playstyles a Killer can engage in. Lets say a Killer is Tunnelling with the express intention of winning, they're probably stressed because they're not able to kill the survivor fast enough, the person being chased isn't having fun because the Killer is on their ass the entire match, aren't getting any Bloodpoints, and if they aren't good in chase then they'll be back sitting in queues in under 5 minutes, and the other 3 survivors aren't having fun because their only real gameplay option is doing gens, which comprises entirely of holding a button for 90 seconds and occasionally pressing Spacebar, that is it. Maybe the Killer and Survivor being chased are having fun if all they care about is chases regardless of how it goes, but that's still only 40% of the people in a match that are enjoying themselves, the other 60% are bored out of their mind. Want to know why most of your SoloQ games end with people not on gens? Because gens are boring and the other Survivors not being chased are probably out looking for literally anything else to do. This is why so many people ask for another objective to be added, Survivor gameplay is incredibly dull and unfun if the Killer is focused solely on one person, and, when the entire point of a video game is to have fun playing it, Tunnelling creates a scenario where 3 of the 5 people in a match at minimum are pretty much unable to actually have fun.
Now, this is the point where people are probably going to tell me that Killers are not responsible for Survivors fun and vice versa. To which I say, what exactly happens when people don't have fun playing a game? They quit, they leave, and if it's a multiplayer game and you have no one to play with, you can't play. So no, both sides are responsible for each other's fun, because if they aren't then there won't be a other side to play against. You can't engage in a playstyle that all but ensures no one in the match has fun, say "I don't care about your fun" and then complain when queues take 5 minutes or longer, you can't have your cake and eat it too. The best way to shorten queues is to make both roles less miserable and more fun to play, and the easiest way to do that is to punish playstyles that aren't fun, this was the intention behind the anti go-next system, the anti-afk system to prevent extreme hiding, and the anti-tunnel and anti-slug systems.
This is where I loop back to the title, the reason these strategies and the mentally of "Up yours I do what I want" is so prevalent is because the community at large has a "Win at all costs" mindset, any strategy besides cheating is perfectly acceptable if it means you win the game. This mindset, to me, is extremely baffling for a simple reason, Dead By Daylight doesn't encourage or reward winning.
Like really think about what you get for "Winning" a match of DBD as Killer and Survivor, both sides get a slightly different message in the post game lobby, some pips for emblems if they are lucky, harder matches in the future because of the MMR system, and Survivors get 7000 or 8500 Survival points, and Killers get 2500 Deviousness points for killing everyone, points in a category that most of the roster maxes out halfway into the match anyway so realistically Killer gets nothing for winning. The long and short of it is, at least from my perspective, you get absolutely nothing for winning, and as for losing? You miss out on the aforementioned Bloodpoints and…that's about it, you don't lose pips for your Rank, and because the SBMM system is a complete joke that should have never been implemented your matches will be easier because you lose MMR. There is no true reward for victory beyond progressing Rift challenges and your own personal enjoyment, and that's where the issue then comes, if winning a match of DBD served a actual purpose and you got real, tangential rewards for doing so, then I'd see the argument for Tunnelling, it'd be stupid and bad for the reasons listed above, but I could see it. As it stands right now though, the argument of "I should be allowed to to kill someone at 5 gens and ignore everyone else because it's the most efficient way to win and winning feels good" is a argument I find to be flawed, after all, this same logic applies to Genrushing as well doesn't it? After all, doing gens quickly is the most efficient way to win, But Killer mains hate that, they think Survivors shouldn't be allowed to do gens too quickly because it isn't fun. See how quickly that argument can be flipped on its head? If Tunnelling is fine, Genrushing is fine, after all, victory's all that matters, right?
Sarcasm aside, how what can we as a community to do to make Tunnelling, and by extension other unfun strategies, less of a issue? Simple really, take a load off and relax. Killers don't have to tunnel, Survivors don't have to rush generators, both sides can take in a match to goof off, chase each other, maybe get some funny clips. Matches don't need to end in 5 minutes nor do does someone have to be taken out in 2 minutes, this is a casual game with a lot of RNG and balancing so comically bad its almost intentional. Nobody has to play like this is a competitive tournament with money on the line.
Am I yelling into the void trying to offer a solution to a problem that has become ingrained into the game's culture? Probably, am I still going to hope that we can find a elegant solution to problems that will continue to impact the game's long time health? God I hope so
G'night
Sarcasm aside, how what can we as a community to do to make Tunnelling, and by extension other unfun strategies, less of a issue? Simple really, take a load off and relax. Killers don't have to tunnel, Survivors don't have to rush generators, both sides can take in a match to goof off, chase each other, maybe get some funny clips. Matches don't need to end in 5 minutes nor do does someone have to be taken out in 2 minutes, this is a casual game with a lot of RNG and balancing so comically bad its almost intentional. Nobody has to play like this is a competitive tournament with money on the line.
maybe it’s just my mentality, but peak DBD is when both sides play for the W.
Tunneling’s a legit fun part of that. First chase? I’ve got the whole map and every resource to work with — that’s real interaction. After the tunnel’s done, the next person in line has way less to play around; map’s trimmed, pallets gone — way spicier, way more pressure. If the killer keeps target-swapping and no real chase happens, it’s mid. its not fun the moment the Kiler only tries to get people at dead zone gens with constant target switching.
I like the tunnel, I like breaking a hard tunnel, I like clean body blocks and team play. ‘Let’s not try’ matches are gray and boring.
Love when both sides sweat for the win.
but.. i dk, I’m into 1v1s too. Kinda the same as a tunnel — you just try to hold it forever and burn every resource on the map.
I don’t mind when both sides play for the win. Anything else is boring,.. no? :/
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https://youtu.be/ntdq12Fkhss DeadByDaylight-backup-2025.09.03-11.31.44.log DeadByDaylight-backup-2025.09.03-09.24.54.log DeadByDaylight-backup-2025.09.03-04.59.05.log DeadByDaylight-backup-2025.09.04-04.22.24.log@Rizzo said:
Could you please attach the logs?
To find them:
- Press the Windows Key + R to open the "Run" command.
- In the text box paste the following: %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\DeadByDaylight\Saved\Logs
- Click "OK" - this will open your Dead by Daylight Logs folder.
- If it does not open the Dead by Daylight Logs folder, it may mean that when installing Dead by Daylight you chose to save your files somewhere else and will need to check there.
- The file called "DeadByDaylight.log" is your log file
Thank you.
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@Roaroftime said:
it’s not even side vs side it’s a vocal minority of killers who play for a 4k everytime and only care about that instead of fun I play killer and have fun and get a 2k and don’t care and I play survivor, these changes were great and only would’ve effected sweats but devs completely folded to them at the expense of the largest player base in the game
And what if a 4K and playing for a clear win is the fun for some of us? Not everyone enjoys super “casual, I don’t care” matches
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997377#Comment_3997377
Since when did tunneling, slugging and camping count as "skillful" play?
If you can't outsmart your opponent, you'd resort to cheap tactics, is that how you see "better players" on the killer side?
In any case, that should 100% count as an L for the killer player.
Skillful play on the other hand is outsmarting your opponents, without having to resort to cheese tactics.
You can't really compare DBD to other PvP games, since for the most part both parties in that situation would be duking it out on a level playing field.campen tunneln und sluggen it’s totally legit tool for the killer to react.
.. to quote myself:
To squads that I rush you from bad positions, ignore macro, run across the map with bad pathing, and play over-aggressive—second-chance perks stacked on top. And then I expect every reactive tool to be taken from you, because you shouldn’t be the killer—you should politely overlook everything I’m doing
We’re talking the killer’s base pressure tools vs survivors’ baseline tools: tight teamplay, clean bodyblocks, gen greed, position/control, winning zones — basically the macro that defines good play on both sides
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997617#Comment_3997617
Yeah I'm sure. Behavior spent more time typing up the patch notes for the ptb. Not including development time my dear. Just them typing the notes then they allowed players to actually test the system. That's a joke that shows you The ears of behavior are to Killers.
Even something like which no one even said was overpowered that people from bringing medkits stopped people from bringing tool boxes got neutered in 2 weeks.and now insult to injury Nerf's toolbox, med kits and flashlights even more by simply reducing how many we can have because we have more blood web clutter instead of just removing this neutered item
But it hits both sides. BHVR’s tuning more and more for casuals and brand-new players. You can see it in Ghoul’s design, in the Clown changes, and now in Myers/Sadako.
So y, it’s dumb. No ez mode — for either side. People should learn the game without a pile of freebies.
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https://youtu.be/4-Zgz0Ni1_M@naeveragedjoe said:
why hello there, fellow dbd enjoyer! :D
pardon my intrusion, i just felt like looking at some dbd numbers.
would you, please, show me yours?
these are mine:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2N826LOUBT9U/screenshot-20250906-000830.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2VQP38GTUWF4/screenshot-20250906-000717.png
for what do u need numbers?
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997505#Comment_3997505
I just want consistency this had 3 days before getting announced it was axed.. anything new that benefits the killer we need to be patient. See how it pans out. How many negative posts about clown were made on both sides and they demanded it go through to test.
That's the issue how you handle balancing and update decisions should be consistent for both sides because otherwise your gonna get really toxic lines in the sand. This is a behavior problem they mismanaged the issue. Should have get it go live because how are you supposed see how something so big would play out when you have less then 1% of the player base testing something. And to top it off it had new survivor new killer myers rework and others.
Don’t ship it. Didn’t even belong in PTB. Step outside new player queues for two minutes and the outcome’s obvious. :/
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What do stats even prove? They don’t show what actually happened in the match.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997258#Comment_3997258
“Cus anyone whos played this game since the beginning knows how this game has never ever been in the killer's favor. ”
The game has been in the killers favor since old eruption. Especially with the amount of strong killers the devs have released. Look at Dracula and the very last one they released. You know who I’m talking about. Plus the buffs they have given to killers since that 6.1 update for example hillbilly.
Survivors were the power role from 2016- august 2022. Killer has been the power role since August of 2022 and still are.
For me it’s the reverse. Survivors have it rougher, but the balance still leans surv. Just my POV.
But you just suck as surv” isn’t a productive take too. You can be cracked, but if the killer is good and goes all-in for the win, you die the moment your team doesn’t follow through. That’s the shift from old DbD: it’s way more of a team game now. One strong player doesn’t solo-carry against a strong killer.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997521#Comment_3997521
The emotional response has now flipped to the other "side." It's not going to be as loud, I imagine. More like the gloom and defeat that settled around the destruction of fog vials.
Yeah, you can't always assume, but some people hide their biases better than others. Many out themselves with their wording by saying things like "you survivors [this]" and "killers always [that]".
Throughout this fight, because I dared to say things like "let's test it out before we decide how we feel" or "the survivor experience has become miserable, particularly in soloq, and needs a boost" I've been accused of never playing killer, posting both killer and survivor stats that weren't mine, and lying about not tunneling and slugging. Received a couple nasty insults as well. Being emotional is one thing, being deranged is another, and some people have been just that.
Yeah, you can't always assume, but some people hide their biases better than others. Many out themselves with their wording by saying things like "you survivors [this]" and "killers always [that]".
I do sometimes both. So what side am I on?
Throughout this fight, because I dared to say things like "let's test it out before we decide how we feel
Normally I’m against negative reviews or hot takes on a test build, but this change was wild. Sorry — I’ve got enough gamesense to see where this goes. I wrote a long review the day PTB went live, and it wasn’t positive, and it wasn’t “let’s wait and see.” I can already tell the endpoint. And even if they roll it back or scrap it, I see the sunk time: design hours, team effort, budget — time and resources that could’ve gone into bug fixes, map reworks, better hit-reg, or other core issues. That’s why “just wait first” doesn’t land for me here.
and.. y,
I’m pro straight talk. If it’s in my POV BS, I’ll call it. What bugs me is the instant “yah, XY mains” label the moment you hold a firm position.
You’re hitting an important point: you should be able to take a clear stance on a specific issue without getting the bias label every time. Those blanket “bias” calls are what push the convo into Us vs Them and camp-thinking. I find that tough—and y, a bit sad. But whatever.
I've been accused of never playing killer, posting both killer and survivor stats that weren't mine, and lying about not tunneling and slugging.
…y, your example shows how far this gets extremized. It shouldn’t. It’s dumb to crank up the Us vs Them label talk and let it escalate. It’s fine to defend a side emotionally (I do too, safe safe) — but this badge-handing (“XY-mains,” “biased”) hurts the convo. Clear language: yes. Boxes: no. Let’s critique points and numbers, not identities — otherwise we’re the ones making Us vs Them bigger.
You brought up a really important point, so I wanted to chime in again — sorry. idk. The thread was drifting that way again.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997505#Comment_3997505
I'm assuming this response is to me.
This survivors vs killers thing is obnoxious. The most reasonable takes I've seen throughout this have been from people who either play both roles or who are not overly and emotionally attached to their prefered role. There's been a serious lack of objectivity and unbiased views in this uproar.
The patch is being postponed, hopefully not canceled. It needs to be adjusted. There are many good ideas and the game needs something to make it less stale and aggravating.
The title alone — “once again the killer wins” — is emotional and not exactly neutral. That’s fine; people are allowed to be emotional about something they care about. What bugs me is how every emotional post gets framed as Us vs Them. That framing is what actually turns it into Us vs Them. Saying “this part favors killers/survivors” on a specific point doesn’t mean you’ve sworn allegiance to that side forever.
You can be 100% on one side of a specific issue without it fitting the whole us vs them narrative. It’s unfair to assume someone only plays/favors one side just because they take a firm stance on a particular topic.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997481#Comment_3997481
Don't worry they will say
"your a new player in Low MMR so you don't know how OP and scary survivors are!! You see I believe that my totally non artificially pumped MMR by tunneling show I'm incredibly skilled with a 80-90% kill rate but also never can win vs Survivors who definitely are not better then me especially when I tunnel and or Slug two very big brained strategies that I came up with to secure wins but!! You see it takes more effort then it should it's unfair survivors need to be nerfed"
*Note this is a fake person I'm quoting and is not ment to reflect negitvely on any player. If similarities exist in my post to an actual individual it is by coincidence.
We can flip it, too: “You’re just a bad killer”—because apparently I’m qualified to rate everyone’s skill. “Boosted off cheap kills,” right?
So it’s totally legit that I rush you from bad positions, ignore macro, run across the map with bad pathing, and play over-aggressive—second-chance perks stacked on top. And then I expect every reactive tool to be taken from you, because you shouldn’t be the killer—you should politely overlook everything I’m doing
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997365#Comment_3997365
You can't balance around the top 1% either. It fundamentally does not work and alienates the average player.
I genuinely wish people would stop with the Us vs Them rhetoric and focus on what's good in concept, but bad in numerics, and what's bad in concept, and should be removed.
There are far too many people shouting that survivors just need to git gud and learn to play better instead of crying over spilt milk. More often than not, when someone complains about being tunnneled, it's their frustration spilling over—to clarify, I am not talking about obviously salty trolls in post-game chat—from being tunneled out match after match.
There is no playing better when you're already playing well, but the killer's persistence forces you out of the match. Even if the killer loses, it still feels bad for the person who got tunneled out. Not everyone sits there and goes "Well at least everyone else got out".
I hear you. No balancing for the top 1%, agreed. I just want cleaner numbers: keep anti-tunnel transparent and counterable, but without a hard limit — let us the tunnel and the slug.. and let the full effect exist for experienced players. Also, not with the dev-suggested workaround of hopping into KYF or external Discord “comp” servers, where long-term players feel basically sidelined and miss out on events, BP, and the usual progression. We don’t want to be pushed off to the side and out of the actual game. Give me an in-game ranked mode instead of the KYF/Discord workaround and I’m all in. I get your point, but folks who want to play a bit sweatier shouldn’t be pushed out — and it’s not some tiny niche.
Hope you get my POV at least a little too, and y, i understand urs. SOLOQ .. is .. rough.
:/
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997247#Comment_3997247
To be totally fair, this is a very disingenuous claim. If you are in the higher percentile, which if I'm not mistaken you have said you think you are, then you're understandably not going to be the target of systems designed to help the majority who aren't. You're playing a different game altogether in that case.
balance aimed at “the majority” and vets should just watch? Or join the 2K-and-dip meta to keep lobbies cozy? Every PvP respects skill; DbD shouldn’t be the outlier.
That’s not how PvP works anywhere else. Why here?
In PvP you run into better players and you die.
Why should dbd be different?
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BHVR doesn’t hate killers or survs — they hate losing newbies. In a decade-old game with a giga learning curve, fresh players get farmed and quit. That’s lost shop $$$, so balance keeps leaning new/casual to boost retention.
BHVR isn’t anti-killer or pro-surv — they’re pro-metrics.
@ForumPikmin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997124#Comment_3997124
Sounds like you don't play solo survivor matches where the killer is competent
But my take still stands: you don’t balance a game around bad soloQ matches with bad players. This is not how PVP works.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997247#Comment_3997247
My escape rate is far closer to the average than yours is, but full agree about the “catering to bad survivor players” point. My games are riddled with people who get downed 5 seconds into a chase because they don’t know basic chase skills. I believe a majority of the complaints about how “impossible” the survivor side is are coming from these players.
There are a ton of good survivor players out there who can consistently give killers long chases - I see them in my killer games all the time. It is possible.My escape rate’s lower too — around 60%. I mostly play soloQ, duoQ, and small SWF, and I still get out of over half my matches. From what I see, most games that go south aren’t because the killer’s too strong; it’s because the survivor team throws at some point. I’m not even hard-playing for escapes — I like risky endgame, I’ll sack for good teammates when the teamplay’s there. I also don’t always min-max the survivor-efficiency meta. The game is still heavily survivor-sided — people just need to use the tools they have.
There’s zero reason to take killer’s pressure tools away — tunneling, slugging, proxy when it makes sense.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456090/once-again-killer-wins
Calm down buddy your preferred role is still stronger.
Yup- this.
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15.000 h player here (2 accounts)..
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3561081972
left: my old OG 2016 account (no vac, no cheats, → only rare skins, so i prefer to play my new one) right: my main. (created a bit after legacy was gone)
and my achievements too — shows I played way more surv than killer back then, in case the whole ‘yeah, killer main’ chatter pops up again (i play both super active - and i still do.)
i’ve posted this before in another thread (and on steam), but it fits better here:
What BHVR’s rolling out is straight-up dumb: more survivor safety nets that reward bad play while punishing the killer for, y’know, reacting.
And no, I don’t care what consolation buffs killers get—none of it fixes being told to play blind and ignore stuff happening right in front of you because “you shouldn’t.” You can’t have a PvP game where one side gets to play bad with zero pressure to improve, while the other side is forbidden to punish the misplays they’re literally watching. It’s wild—no other game does this. Play bad? Here’s your shield and a buff. React to bad play? Here’s your penalty.
This doesn’t reward good killer macro; it actually rewards bad survivor macro.
- Unhook Protection = all-inclusive shields
30s mini-godmode after unhook: Haste, Endurance, “elusive”/concealment (less info/tracks), sometimes killer aura reveal, no loud unhook notif, delayed hook status, etc.
Result: Unsafe unhooks aren’t punished—they’re masked. Team can play over-aggressive and the killer is told to “move along.” If I stay, I’m the bad guy; if I leave, it’s a free gen rush. That’s rewarding bad survivor macro (greedy trades, hook rush) instead of good play. - Hiding hook info = banning reaction
Killer doesn’t instantly see hook state, no hook ping, sometimes no hook aura. So: less info exactly when good reaction matters (anticipate trades, separate saver vs. saved, hold zone). That’s not “balance,” that’s blindfolded killer. Again: good killer macro (zone control, informed swaps) gets nothing. - “Hook someone else” bonuses = forced target swap
Sounds nice (“play fair, get Haste/gen-kick/aura ping”), but it’s basically a design shove: play our way or pay. It shifts skill from macro (holding zone, prioritizing) into a gen-kicking minigame. Survivors can even trade bad unhooks because the killer is incentivized to walk away.
Meaning: Mistake ≠ consequence; it’s “mistake → killer, please swap targets.” Bad survivor macro = protected. - Hard tunneling penalties are backwards
Early kill before 6 hook states? Team repair +25% and/or killer can’t block/kick/regress gens. So… if I play efficiently, I get punished and they get faster.
Literally “Play dumb, win dumb prizes—(for the killer).” Why would I secure a strong zone if a quick kill slams me with a gen lockdown debuff? That devalues good macro and rewards bad survivor macro (feeding in a hotspot). - Anti-slug on top = bodyblock fiesta
Combine unhook shields, info denial, target-swap candy with anti-slug thinking and you get: dive in, trade, mask it, while the killer loses reactive tools—the exact stuff that makes the role deep. Slugging isn’t pretty, but it’s a counter-tool vs. that over-aggression. Removing it protects bad survivor macro even more.
Everything this game is drifting toward: bad survivors can do whatever they want—no matter how aggressive, careless, or dumb—no consequences, still a good time. The killer? Not a threat, just the party clown to entertain the group. And when survivors lose interest because two things don’t go their way, they just DC for free and queue the next match. (Yes, really—no DC penalty when the round goes bad for them.)
Meanwhile the killer has to watch a hook get sabo’d, someone intentionally go down in a pallet, the full team rush in with flashies/body blocks/whatever—and the second you react correctly, it’s: “Yup, try to pick—nope, that’s evil… slugging.” And tunneling as a clear consequence? Also not allowed.
Play like a killer and you get punished; play badly as survivor and you get bubble wrap.I play pretty much the whole roster on both sides. As survivor I’ll sometimes full-send into the killer to deny all pressure. That’s legit. But it also has to be legit for the killer to punish that without griefing themselves. Don’t force me to roleplay blind and ignore free value when someone misplays—that’s the game, that’s the price.
Now we’re talking about stripping a huge reaction tool from killer so survivors can misplay (or even profit)? Why? Keep doing that and the answer for a lot of players is Nurse/Blight only. Boring lobbies, shrinking killer variety. And no, this isn’t “bad killer wants ez 4Ks.” It’s about fair, skill-expressive, symmetric risk–reward. If I overextend as surv, I deserve the hook, a hard tunnel and a slug. If killer throws, survivors capitalize. Let killers react to greed and mistakes so matches stay dynamic instead of forcing everyone to look away from what’s happening on screen.
Let killers punish greed/misplays. Don’t delete reaction tools or you’ll push people into Nurse/Blight and flatten variety. It’s not about easy wins—it’s about fair, skill-based, two-way risk–reward.
/edit..
so all in all: (only my Pov)
- fFewer killer tools = fewer pivots → matches feel more predictable.
- Pace shifts to early-game gens; midgame choices matter less.
- Hit-and-run becomes the default line, even on killers that aren’t built for it.
- 3-gen stall loses bite; comeback via setup is rarer.
ook-state economy flattens: single mistakes cheaper, mistake chains pricier.
- Anti-tunnel/anti-slug chop off big killer reaction spikes.
- Chase speed & mobility > map control in value.
- Info perks become king, making up for missing punish via smarter target picks.
- Survivors can trade cheekier; punish lands softer.
- Survivor rotations get bolder; killers reset more instead of closing.
- heal economy > heal speed: interrupts beat raw numbers.
- Map/RNG decides more because flexible macro answers are gone.
- Endgame pressure (gates, bodyblocks) matters more; midgame less.
- Killer picks compress toward Nurse/Blight/dash; variety shrinks.
- Low-mobility killers lose their Plan B and get MMR-swingy (stomp or stall).
- survivor meta shifts to info-counters (anti-aura, concealment) over pure safety stacks.
- snowball comes from fast downs now, not area control.
- Error economy flips: survivor misplays cheaper, killer misplays pricier.
- Team comms matter more; solo value gets punished less.
- Match length spreads: quick sweeps or long, grindy gen pushing.
- Offerings/add-ons with mobility/info rise; setup tools fall.
- Macro skill shifts from “when do I punish?” to “who/where do I start cutting pressure?”
- ……….. fewer turning points, more linear tempo → pressure toward meta top killers.
how is this a good direction? we’re ripping reaction tools out of killer, telling us to RP blind and ignore free value, then acting shocked when everyone defaults to nurse/blight. less punish = more free value for greed plays → linear games, variety dies. it’s not “bad killer wants ez 4Ks”; it’s about symmetric risk–reward. if i overextend as surv, hook/tunnel/slug is legit. if killer throws, survivors should capitalize. slapping a handbrake on killer until only dash tops are viable doesn’t make the game fairer—just dull. seriously, how is that good?
- Unhook Protection = all-inclusive shields
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Tunneling isn’t something personal or “evil”; it’s a legitimate reaction tool for the killer. The killer responds to live, in-match information: poorly played hooks, positioning, spent resources, lack of rescue tools, bad rotations. If the unhooked survivor runs unprotected into a dead zone or someone is available on death hook, it’s rational to chase that target. Expecting the killer to ignore those opportunities just because the other side misplays is a double standard—survivors optimize too (gen-splitting, focusing the weakest link, body blocks, items/perks). As long as counterplay exists (OTR/DS, coordinated saves, info), tunneling is a permissible, situational response — not mandatory, but legitimate. Penalizing the killer for reacting correctly to visible information is absurd and shows where the game is heading: toward safety nets and balance built around very poorly playing survivors who, on top of that, don’t even want to learn.
already wrote this in my steam review:
What BHVR’s rolling out is straight-up dumb: more survivor safety nets that reward bad play while punishing the killer for, y’know, reacting.
And no, I don’t care what consolation buffs killers get—none of it fixes being told to play blind and ignore stuff happening right in front of you because “you shouldn’t.” You can’t have a PvP game where one side gets to play bad with zero pressure to improve, while the other side is forbidden to punish the misplays they’re literally watching. It’s wild—no other game does this. Play bad? Here’s your shield and a buff. React to bad play? Here’s your penalty.
This doesn’t reward good killer macro; it actually rewards bad survivor macro.
- Unhook Protection = all-inclusive shields
30s mini-godmode after unhook: Haste, Endurance, “elusive”/concealment (less info/tracks), sometimes killer aura reveal, no loud unhook notif, delayed hook status, etc.
Result: Unsafe unhooks aren’t punished—they’re masked. Team can play over-aggressive and the killer is told to “move along.” If I stay, I’m the bad guy; if I leave, it’s a free gen rush. That’s rewarding bad survivor macro (greedy trades, hook rush) instead of good play. - Hiding hook info = banning reaction
Killer doesn’t instantly see hook state, no hook ping, sometimes no hook aura. So: less info exactly when good reaction matters (anticipate trades, separate saver vs. saved, hold zone). That’s not “balance,” that’s blindfolded killer. Again: good killer macro (zone control, informed swaps) gets nothing. - “Hook someone else” bonuses = forced target swap
Sounds nice (“play fair, get Haste/gen-kick/aura ping”), but it’s basically a design shove: play our way or pay. It shifts skill from macro (holding zone, prioritizing) into a gen-kicking minigame. Survivors can even trade bad unhooks because the killer is incentivized to walk away.
Meaning: Mistake ≠ consequence; it’s “mistake → killer, please swap targets.” Bad survivor macro = protected. - Hard tunneling penalties are backwards
Early kill before 6 hook states? Team repair +25% and/or killer can’t block/kick/regress gens. So… if I play efficiently, I get punished and they get faster.
Literally “Play dumb, win dumb prizes—(for the killer).” Why would I secure a strong zone if a quick kill slams me with a gen lockdown debuff? That devalues good macro and rewards bad survivor macro (feeding in a hotspot). - Anti-slug on top = bodyblock fiesta
Combine unhook shields, info denial, target-swap candy with anti-slug thinking and you get: dive in, trade, mask it, while the killer loses reactive tools—the exact stuff that makes the role deep. Slugging isn’t pretty, but it’s a counter-tool vs. that over-aggression. Removing it protects bad survivor macro even more.
Everything this game is drifting toward: bad survivors can do whatever they want—no matter how aggressive, careless, or dumb—no consequences, still a good time. The killer? Not a threat, just the party clown to entertain the group. And when survivors lose interest because two things don’t go their way, they just DC for free and queue the next match. (Yes, really—no DC penalty when the round goes bad for them.)
Meanwhile the killer has to watch a hook get sabo’d, someone intentionally go down in a pallet, the full team rush in with flashies/body blocks/whatever—and the second you react correctly, it’s: “Yup, try to pick—nope, that’s evil… slugging.” And tunneling as a clear consequence? Also not allowed.
Play like a killer and you get punished; play badly as survivor and you get bubble wrap. - Unhook Protection = all-inclusive shields
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995273#Comment_3995273
Because no game should be balanced around what the best players of the game are able to pull off. If you don't understand this, then… I don't know what to say that won't get me banned.
Hot take: ‘Otz is the best’ is copium. He knows the game, sure—that’s about it. Touch true peak MMR at sweat o’clock, then talk. He queues at off-hours and gets comfy lobbies most of the time.
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@Foggyguy said:
If it's hard to reach even five hooks then my dude, you just aren't in the correct MMR and artificially boosting it by using cheese tactics is not going to make you better. Also I'd like to point out you can still tunnel but if you do you aren't going to get free wins anymore.
Take from someone who’s obviously never touched high MMR or faced a well-organized team.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993413#Comment_3993413
Loved your video really amusing I hadn't heard that song before it was really incredible.
But 1. Hasn't sabo been nerfed like 8 times by now? More hooks longer sabo times no 99% anymore. It's really not a viable win condition for a team to do they are just having fun and not trying to win. So tunneling one out probably wouldn't even effect your win.
2. The slugging and tunneling are not a tool to win but to abuse the games arguably bad initial mechanics to exploit a win scenario... Consider this what game on the planet that is competitive in nature and has a PVP scene allows players to win 100s of games in a row? 500? 1000? Or the blight that had a 1900+ win streak. This isn't natural for a game. And a valid response isn't "well I don't play that way" why should a game require a community code of honor to not fall part? That's nonsense and it isn't just a few killers Oni 500+ seen a few 50+ huntress vecnas. I'm definitely not an authority on killer win streaks so I don't know them all. But that doesn't happen in other game it shouldn't happen in dbd
and um.. a short example..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeuZczC2nlwxD like I said, I like writing songs to vent.
Well, those are extremes, but you know? The "typical sable" player is often a thing
Killers on their winstreak like that often end up in normal “casual time” lobbies, while others train for ages in customs or really work on mastering their abilities (aside from all the bug/glitch tech). If you get one of those players in your lobby, what do you expect?
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993413#Comment_3993413
Loved your video really amusing I hadn't heard that song before it was really incredible.
But 1. Hasn't sabo been nerfed like 8 times by now? More hooks longer sabo times no 99% anymore. It's really not a viable win condition for a team to do they are just having fun and not trying to win. So tunneling one out probably wouldn't even effect your win.
2. The slugging and tunneling are not a tool to win but to abuse the games arguably bad initial mechanics to exploit a win scenario... Consider this what game on the planet that is competitive in nature and has a PVP scene allows players to win 100s of games in a row? 500? 1000? Or the blight that had a 1900+ win streak. This isn't natural for a game. And a valid response isn't "well I don't play that way" why should a game require a community code of honor to not fall part? That's nonsense and it isn't just a few killers Oni 500+ seen a few 50+ huntress vecnas. I'm definitely not an authority on killer win streaks so I don't know them all. But that doesn't happen in other game it shouldn't happen in dbd
Loved your video really amusing I hadn't heard that song before it was really incredible.
how would you know? i only wrote the song recently, tied to this update—same as the other 2–3. that’s just how i vent xD
that’s just my way of sighing.
But 1. Hasn't sabo been nerfed like 8 times by now? More hooks longer sabo times no 99% anymore. It's really not a viable win condition for a team to do they are just having fun and not trying to win. So tunneling one out probably wouldn't even effect your win.
I think this should be viewed separately from whether sabo is too strong (that’s debatable). But this is not the point: Survivors are playing greedy and making mistakes. I react like a killer—I won’t turn a blind eye. They misplayed, not me. That shouldn’t disadvantage me. I capitalize. Don’t punish me for their throw. And even if there’s a “reward” for playing blind so weaker players don’t have to learn and can still have fun, I don’t want it. I’m a killer, not a training dummy.
Consider this what game on the planet that is competitive in nature and has a PVP scene allows players to win 100s of games in a row? 500? 1000? Or the blight that had a 1900+ win streak. This isn't natural for a game.
which win streak do you mean exactly? a lot of them were pre-nerfs (see billy). ye, they exist. blight is blight. most of those streaks happened in normal lobbies at super casual hours, and plenty benefited from that (some were… let’s say “assisted”).
blight can abuse bugs/glitches that get packaged as “tech” by content creators. fix that stuff — don’t blanket-ban tunneling.flip side: if i run something weak, survivors play almost mistake-free, and i roll a bad map (hi pied piper), that can be an auto-lose with the right squad. so yeah, when i pull out nurse, i usually win — that’s legit. she’s not unbeatable; most groups just can’t keep up and often don’t counter things that are counterable (see my nurse clip in this thread).
like, what do you expect if a full team goes sabo + flashy + flashbang into a nurse and stays in her LOS? what’s supposed to happen? i’m the strongest killer right now — have your fun, sure — but i get to punish that, not get punished for it.
In most PvP games, bad play = dead screen—headshot, back to lobby. DBD cushions mistakes with tons of safety nets. So lots of players don’t optimize; the game lets them, while other PvPs punish instantly. Plenty of survivors either don’t need to improve or don’t want to—bum-rush killer is more fun. That’s fine (I enjoy that as survivor too), but don’t complain when you die and the killer wins. That’s the cost. Either run full survivor efficiency for the win, or queue for ‘fun time’—and if you run into a stronger killer, expect to die.
you can’t balance the game for both groups: the ‘fun rounds’ crowd who mess around, don’t want to learn, and prefer sabos and flashy plays—even if that feeds the killer—and the full-efficiency meta players aiming for unseen survivor wins. The first style dies the moment it faces a good killer who makes few mistakes. Don’t balance around that; balance around players who are actually playing 100% for the win
By that logic, we wouldn’t balance around killers trying to win—we’d balance around killers doing personal challenges: ‘two-hook everyone before I kill,’ ‘chainsaw-only,’ ‘full M1 no power,’ ‘no perks, no addons.’ If you balance for sub-optimal play, you’d have to balance for all of that too. It doesn’t work :/
a lot of DBD players don’t play with optimal efficiency. Many treat it like a casual horror game, and unlike shooters you don’t get punished as directly, so the game allows it. The people who take it more seriously aren’t the majority—and they’ll beat players with different goals. That’s how it should be, right? The side that treats it like real PvP, with thousands more hours, custom practice, etc., will have the edge. When a new map drops, my duo and I hop into customs: test Billy curves and stick spots, map structures, where Nurse can’t blink, where Blight snags, what’s mindgameable, and how to squeeze fast vaults out of tight window setups. That alone can take tons of hours. Plenty of folks with crazy win streaks do the same. When they land in average lobbies, of course they’re favored.
(That doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot—especially on Blight—built on bug/glitch ‘tech’ that really should be reviewed. Same with oni .. "i flick my camera in the air and i can get much much better angles , same with wesker)
Yeah, a 20k-hour player running a Vecna win streak and queueing into your average evening casual lobbies (that’s exactly why these streaks get farmed during ultra-casual hours) and who’s actually labbed the killer… of course he’s going to win. Most folks on the other side are just hopping in for a chill game.
Many survivors don’t even practice running every structure super close—close to the wall, close to the object, without getting stuck. They run the loop too wide or catch on something, while the killer might run it tighter. That alone often decides a free hit. And yes, that’s expensive for survivors, because you usually can only take 1–2 hits.
Details like these often alone decide who has the advantage. Killers tend to learn them sooner—past a certain point they have to if they want good matches and real downs/kills against stronger players. Meanwhile, plenty of survivors rack up hundreds or even thousands of hours and still don’t master some fundamentals.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992591#Comment_3992591
There's added bonuses for not tunnelling and more off-hook protections that combine into this, you know?
@OmegaXII said:
So Killer has 1 hook, with only 2 gens left. How are you going to comeback from this? You can't kill anyone before 6 hooks, otherwise your opponent gets buff.
So basically the first chase determines the whole match?
Anyone who actually runs into the really strong groups knows this change is insanely bad, and vs some teams you basically click ‘ready to lose’ with most killers in the roster
So yup: we’re compressing the meta even more into ‘top killers only. For me its nurse then at this point.
And then I’ll slug and tunnel on her—not that I even need to on her, still doin it then) —because this community asked for it. You wanted fewer options and less killer variety? I’ll use the one that ends games clean and fast.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993291#Comment_3993291
Your hypocrisy is showing. You keep talking about how Survivors should learn while you're refusing to learn how to deal with the upcoming changes. Instead, your only response is to keep tunneling and slugging with Nurse and Blight.
But by all means, go ahead and do that. If enough players follow suit, maybe Nurse and Blight will get the Skull Merchant treatment. And then where will that leave us?
Balance isn’t “one role gets to play sloppy wile the other is forced to look away.”
In asymmetry, learning comes from punishable mistakes and rewarded correct reactions. I’ll adapt—always do. But let’s be honest: rewarding mistakes while taxing correct responses isn’t balance; it’s anti-learning.This package hard-bakes forced ignorance: it tells Killer to walk past free value so even the least willing-to-learn teammate-farmer or the no-pathing, camera-off sprinter still has a good time. I’m here to compete, convert pressure, and snowball when it’s handed to me—not to role-play ignoring it.
What this package teaches is forced ignorance:
PPL in newer lobbys will NEVER learn:
- Locker bait in LOS? Free grab → “walk past it.”
- Post-unhook sprint back into my hitbox with no camera control? “Walk past it.”
- Unsafe unhook to farm a dead-hook teammate right by the hook? “Walk past it.”
Because the HUD says: not six red pips yet.
But no, even the worst yet still ‘brazen’ team is supposed to have their ‘fun fun’ and good time in the match with the killer, without the killer being allowed to respond accordingly.
Like..:
Yeaa, we’re trash, but we want our SABO minigame. No chase learning—we’ll just die in upper main. One hook nearby? Perfect. SABO time. Killer picks up again? I body-block, eat the hit, zoom to the next hook and try to start more sabo—big ‘skill,’ btw.
Killer slugs? Not okay—BHVR pls fix. Killer finally plays like… a killer? Nope, that’s ‘toxic’ and dumb.
Like this ppl.. They’re awful bad, but if I punish it, suddenly i have to get this ‘the disadvantage’ because: ‘oh no, bad, you’re not supposed to do that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6_b8Z-pz9kAnd no, I don’t mind that a group wants their sabo fun—skipping movement and real chases, going down in upper main to get their sabo plays rolling. That’s legit, part of the game; play how you want. But I’m not accepting any ‘disadvantage’ the moment I respond like a killer
‘We gave you other ways to win!’ — cool story. I don’t care.
This community wants chaos with zero consequences: ‘Let us play bad, but if the killer actually plays like a killer, that has to give him a disadvantage.
But by all means, go ahead and do that. If enough players follow suit, maybe Nurse and Blight will get the Skull Merchant treatment. And then where will that leave us?
Then i adapt again
I know what to do against most groups—even on Skully—so they’ll have as little fun as possible in my lobby. The strong squads? I dodge them; they can entertain someone else.
At that point, it’s about principles.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992616#Comment_3992616
I'm sorry but there's nothing that can be done about that level of entitlement. It's a PVP game—it can't revolve entirely around one role without any consequences.
yes, right.
you can’t tune the game for survivors who don’t want to learn and expect no fallout. it can’t be about one role only. 100%, agreed
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991727#Comment_3991727
The infinite thing is absolutely not the same. To go with your analogy, how about instead of removing the infinities like they did, instead after three full loops all the doors and windows were blocked? Sure, the killer made a bad play, but now we need a game mechanic to help out the killer. That's what this anti-tunnel is doing.
Also, while I am a P100 Pig main on killer side, I am also a P65 Jill Valentine Main on Survivor. When someone in a match is tunneled, it's usually me. So I get how frustrating being tunneled is. I am still absolutely against these changes.+ thanks.. I mean ... The infinite argument is already garbage, because an infinite by definition can’t be broken if it’s run perfectly. If both sides play perfect, the killer has zero chance to win it.
Hard tunneling? Even there, if you put two perfectly playing sides against each other, survivors are still favored. A hard tunnel with most killers would actually be a survivor win if both sides played flawlessly.
Ye, I know nobody plays perfect — but you don’t have to. In every tournament people tunnel hard (even with ruleset and perk limitations on survivors), and survivors still win often.
So comparing infinites to tunneling is just a bad take — infinites were literal unwinnables, tunneling isn’t -
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992230#Comment_3992230
I think you're under the false impression that survivors complain about tunneling because they dislike losing and think they'll always win if the killer is forced to stop tunneling. You're wrong.
Survivors complain about tunneling because they dislike tunneling. When you say that you'll adjust your playstyle so you win without tunneling, a vast majority of survivors will be happy with that.
ofc they’ll be happy. they can keep playing bad without learning anything and still have a ‘good time.’ all the stuff that makes tunneling a big topic stays: unsafe unhooks, instant unhooks, just cooky healing under hook and resetting instead of smart reposition -> bad pathing after unhook, basically no gamesense. gen greed goes on; why kite to a smart zone where a hook makes tunneling maximally uninteresting/inefficient for the killer, when you can just sit on the spawn gen till the last second, go down there, and gift the killer a defendable area and a free re-engage.
survivors don’t want to put in effort, learn macrogameplay, hold good chases, or play smart/considered so tunneling becomes irrelevant and inefficient by itself. the majority just wants safety nets for bad play, with the killer as the party clown who’s supposed to blindly ignore every throw happening around the hook. and if he actually reacts, he eats a penalty. even if you can sometimes compensate—why is the killer getting punished for survivor misplays?
where’s this game headed if it’s just safety nets now? you load in as survivor and bring everything to deny the killer any momentum/pressure—insta-heals, flashies, whatever—stack the right perks to give him a hard time and deny pressure, and uhm.. y , you’re a real threat as long as you can use those tools. that’s part of it. but it’s also part of it that if the killer catches you and the window is there, he gets to take you out—especially if you’ve already denied him a ton of pressure. that’s normal. the killer should be allowed to pick the easiest target or the biggest threat, situationally. if you bring the heat, you accept the heat coming back.
and what’s the point if the killer isn’t allowed to take pressure back off me—even if it’s a hard tunnel? i’m fine with it. i queue to fight, not for cuddle time on both sides
let the killer tunnel and focus—it forces survivors to actually play: learn stable chases, do safe unhooks, reposition, fix your pathing, bodyblock, trade, manage info. bubble-wrap just rewards bad fundamentals (unsafe saves, healing under hook, gen greed) and deletes learning.
tunneling isn’t uncounterable: take safe unhook angles, set up off-positions, swap zones, team bodyblock, plan heal/reset routes, shift pressure across the map. when those basics are tight, tunneling gets expensive and risky—which is exactly the pointbut yes.. I KNOW, i know that
"a vast majority of survivors will be happy with that."
and this survivors don’t want to learn or improve and they don’t want the killer to be an actual threat. that’s fine. but some of us aren’t here to be casual entertainment or a content farm or to babysit after-work lobbies that just wanna hop in and mash m1 — we’re here to be a competitive threat.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992700#Comment_3992700
What is that supposed to show us? A P100 Taurie? That doesn't tell us anything. You can get that without playing Survivor.
y got only Taurie and Claudette at P100; everyone else sits around P10. I need the BP on killer for add-ons anyway.
but the old red prestige backgrounds are from back in the day — the pre-2021 grind? with the old bloodweb? Thousands of hours on surv before the rework this system? -
@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992540#Comment_3992540
Getting better is part of PvP games. Staying stuck in the ‘but that’s not fair’ mindset, refusing to improve, and then demanding changes from your own unwillingness to learn
Maybe killer mains might want to try considering that advice when it comes to this update.
Lucky for me I’m not a "killer main"
Steam Community: Steam Artwork. -
Hu? Usually someone dies around 2 gens (killer/team/map/perks depending). There’s still tons of play left: rotate, trade, rescue, endgame. The first dude just gets front-loaded interaction — doesn’t mean the others don’t get any.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992622#Comment_3992622
Great news: the Elusive change means they can't do anything even if they are trying to be in-your-face annoying. (And even then they're just a ghost)
Every aspect of this system is within the killers control. All of it.
If you're concerned about mistakes punishing you, they're your mistakes as the killer.
I didn’t say anything else—I just want to punish their mistakes: bad pathing, bad movement, bad reads, or straight-up greedy plays. I want to be the Killer, and I’m not doing that by playing blind or dumb.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992645#Comment_3992645
Expect compensatory nerfs if you continue creating the same problems.
Like it or not, BHVR has to care about everyone's enjoyment. And that means, by proxy, you do too.
Not every surv is bad ..
plenty of survivors actually enjoy a direct tunnel. The tunneled one gets the most interaction—the chase, first pick of resources, control of the opening. Meanwhile teammates are on M1 duty. The next person in rotation inherits fewer tiles—sometimes straight dead zones. That’s way less fun than being first in the tunnel.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992540#Comment_3992540
Have you bothered to consider that perhaps Survivors can't improve because they can't stay in the match long enough due to being tunneled out?
I learned DBD getting farmed by insta-saw Billy, multi one-shot Huntress, omega-range Nurse (no recharge, 7 blinks), Prayer Beads Spirit, zero-sound phase. I got cooked, adapted, moved on. Hard to ask me for “pity” now—MMR (even scuffed) means I’m not facing day-1 babies.
What’s crystal clear to me: back then I had to learn or I didn’t get to play. Today’s survivors? They don’t see the need. Tons of hours, still playing sloppy, still refusing to improve. Maybe the old days were actually good—people were forced to learn.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992622#Comment_3992622
And regardless—
even if BHVR handed me every tool to win faster or easier, that’s not the point. I’m not BHVR’s court jester sent in to entertain survivor stacks. I’m the Killer.It's a PvP game, you're not the only player there. BHVR has a right to set the rules as they see fit, and if the way you play breaks the fundamental enjoyment of the game, they have every reason to implement changes.
The game only works so long as it's engaging. If it no longer is, it must change.
They can, and they will. I’ll still play the way I play under the new rules. And I hope a lot of killers follow — swaps to top killers included. Plenty feel the same: never had an issue with tunneling before, but with these changes? We adapt. We min-max the meta. Expect more Nurse/Blight.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992526#Comment_3992526
I don't think either of our analogies are perfect but perhaps yours is closer in terms of matching vaguely defined player concepts of generally disliked things that happen in the respective games. I think the details of how spawn camping is addressed in your hypothetical scenario is completely off base though, as your example of extending invulnerability on spawn & being pinged is far more reasonable, natural/readable (especially with visual/auditory indicators), & less arbitrary than what's happening with BHVR's master plan to solve tunneling.
If I were to take your example and BHVRify it, I'd say that the equivalent would be assigning a spawncamp flag event to recently killed players, then if they're killed again by the same person within X timeframe (like, 20 seconds in a TDM CoD match, which would be too much given the pacing of the game), that person who killed them gets half the kill points for the rest of the match on anyone (consecutive death hook change). Then, on top of that, the teammates of the "spawnkilled" (remember, 20 second or whatever flag) player get more double the points for their kills (or I dunno, free scorestreaks) for the rest of the match (6 hook state change). Throw in some wallhacks & speedboosts that trigger on fresh kills all the time.
So basically everyone just gets arbitrarily punished or rewarded for people just playing the game normally and running into oopsie scenarios that trigger the "spawncamping" event…except that'd actually end up kind of balanced at least since it's a problem that both teams would have to work around. We don't have that luxury here.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't care if they really want to focus on addressing tunneling, and I care even less about addressing slugging. But these anti-tunnel changes are anti-tunnel in name only. They're anti-playing-the-game-normally, arbitrarily.
I guess if I were to try and address/disincentivize hardcore tunneling (and ranged camping, or edge cases like the library hook in RPD, since the proxy system isn't perfect either) without completely breaking the game, my first idea would be to try something like introducing survivor-controlled hook teleports. Once a match, you as the hooked survivor can choose to teleport yourself to a different hook on the map (first and struggle, or only struggle? would have to be decided). We can keep elusive and the unhook notification removal to help make the teleport work as a counter to tunneling. Would that be a perfect system by itself? Nah, can already think of a few issues, especially the most glaring one being how much it would change how killer map pressure strategy works. I think it'd be a solid enough base to work off of though, and it's a mechanic that we've already seen before with Pyramid Head & 2v8, except in this case it'd actually be a direct benefit to survivors like it's supposed to be.
But no, instead, ######### you for killing that survivor at the BHVR mandated wrong time.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't care if they really want to focus on addressing tunneling, and I care even less about addressing slugging. But these anti-tunnel changes are anti-tunnel in name only. They're anti-playing-the-game-normally, arbitrarily.
I guess if I were to try and address/disincentivize
hardcoretunneling (and ranged camping, or edge cases like the library hook in RPD, since the proxy system isn't perfect either) without completely breaking the game, my first idea would be to try something like introducing survivor-controlled hook teleports. Once a match, you as the hooked survivor can choose to teleport yourself to a different hook on the map (first and struggle, or only struggle? would have to be decided). We can keep elusive and the unhook notification removal to help make the teleport work as a counter to tunneling. Would that be a perfect system by itself? Nah, can already think of a few issues, especially the most glaring one being how much it would change how killer map pressure strategy works. I think it'd be a solid enough base to work off of though, and it's a mechanic that we've already seen before with Pyramid Head & 2v8, except in this case it'd actually be a direct benefit to survivors like it's supposed to be.But no, instead, ######### you for killing that survivor at the BHVR mandated wrong time.
Thanks for this.. really. I don’t want to play “am I allowed to?” roulette every chase—I want to play the game. I’m not going to intentionally ignore value the other side creates. Let me do my killer job without the morality pop quiz of “is this too mean to secure the down?”
“Nah, still not enough red boxes —guess I’m not allowed yet… .. oh but .. this person is playin clearly dump right now.. very sexy snack in the open.. wait, now I am? Lemme check the HUD first.”If a squad swarms first hook with BP/flashies/sabo and takes high-risk plays, I should be allowed to punish that. Don’t ask killers to play with blinders on. Cause → effect. You gamble, I cash it in.
Thats the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992616#Comment_3992616
Except if an early death still severely disadvantages the survivors, the pressure's still on.
You need to get out of your tunnel-only mindset.
Cute… but you know I can’t. <3
As long as my matches keep playing out like this..
C’mon — you know I’m committed.u you know the tunnel stays.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992537#Comment_3992537
But is it really just about numbers?
Yes, it absolutely is.
If the unique hook bonuses are 50% of current charges in regression, a 10% haste for 90 seconds, and killer instinct for 60 seconds, with the repair speed bonus for a rushed kill being 10%, this would be the most killer-sided update ever.
Conversely, if the killer buffs are negligible and the survivor buff is obscene, it could be survivor-sided.
Hence the question: What repair speed bonus offsets a dead survivor?
The numbers will make or break this thing, entirely.
And regardless—even if BHVR handed me every tool to win faster or easier, that’s not the point. I’m not BHVR’s court jester sent in to entertain survivor stacks. I’m the Killer. If people misplay in front of me and openings appear, I should be allowed to punish and capitalize without putting myself at a forced disadvantage.
That’s my job. In a match I have one task: killing. What I refuse most is this: survivors can play badly while I’m expected to stand there, look the other way, and “accept” it—then I’m the one who gets punished, even though they are the ones misplaying.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992561#Comment_3992561
It activates for both sides. Both down for Survivor, 10 minutes without gen progress for Killer.
And when people just sit on gens… uwhm… and what then? I’m allowed to down them, slug them again, then go look for the last one? And then they just get up for free and it keeps going? without the other person has a bit to give away his position to get the slugged one can crawl and recover and is back up? then the same again. : down and repeat. down and repeat. Whup whup, amazing design.
and even if it happen that both hide..
I, as killer, am supposed to abandon in a match I’ve already won? Ew. Sense? Logic? Hello?? Anyone home?
I mean.
that situation already exists right now. Not too bad. But as soon as I catch one..
It’s not “if,” it’s the slug that often gives you the last survivor. That’s literally how you secure the cleanup.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992537#Comment_3992537
But is it really just about numbers?
Yes, it absolutely is.
If the unique hook bonuses are 50% of current charges in regression, a 10% haste for 90 seconds, and killer instinct for 60 seconds, with the repair speed bonus for a rushed kill being 10%, this would be the most killer-sided update ever.
Conversely, if the killer buffs are negligible and the survivor buff is obscene, it could be survivor-sided.
Hence the question: What repair speed bonus offsets a dead survivor?
The numbers will make or break this thing, entirely.
ehw. .. uhm..… which apparently means waiting for some random RNG black hole to spawn and then dice-rolling who stumbles on it first… in a match I already won? Ye, in what world does that make sense? Sure as hell not in mine :/
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992537#Comment_3992537
But is it really just about numbers?
Yes, it absolutely is.
If the unique hook bonuses are 50% of current charges in regression, a 10% haste for 90 seconds, and killer instinct for 60 seconds, with the repair speed bonus for a rushed kill being 10%, this would be the most killer-sided update ever.
Conversely, if the killer buffs are negligible and the survivor buff is obscene, it could be survivor-sided.
Hence the question: What repair speed bonus offsets a dead survivor?
The numbers will make or break this thing, entirely.
Gonna be real: a slug brings way more pressure. A hard tunnel brings way more pressure.
Chasing a fresh unhook? The team feels zero pressure. No one bodyblocks, no one risks a save, everybody just leans back into M1 simulator. They know there’s no threat, so they adapt: less healing, less resetting, more greed. Why bother helping when there’s no chance the killer actually snowballs off a mistake?And that’s the core issue — remove the fear of a hard tunnel and survivors take dumb risks way earlier and way more often. sit injured on gens, swarm first chase with all their toys. If nothing gets punished, everything gets tried.
or on the other side..:
NThe flashy BP enjoyer knows the killer puts themselves at a disadvantage the second they commit to sweating him out. So he goes super aggro on first down — because what’s the downside? If there’s no real snowball threat, he flips the coin every time.
Exactly like in my Nurse clip, page 1: first chase at 5 gens and they’re all there. One with a flashy, one with flashbang, one with sabo. Two running Background Player, three rocking Unbreakable. They only failed to build momentum because it was Nurse. With almost any other killer, that exact situation turns into hard snowball → hard tunnel. That’s just how pressure works.
So yeah, when the killer fresh-hook chases, the team gets a free pass to play super aggressiv. (even more as tey already do) N. When slugging and tunneling actually exist as consequences, the team has to respect chases: rotate, trade smart, reset, think. Otherwise it’s just four people speedrunning greed with training wheels or have THEIR fun time with the killer because they have to fear less consequences
If mistakes don’t carry hard consequences, survivors will gladly make more of them. That’s not “depth,” that’s taking the pressure valve off