oecrophy
oecrophy
About
- Username
- oecrophy
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968897#Comment_3968897
It's not really about stopping the strategies completely. There are times where slugging is needed. Survivors should always have a threat of early elimination.
The problem with current DBD is there's not much reason to spread hooks. It's far better putting your early hooks on 1 or 2 people, because that results in someone dying early which is a big decrease in the power of the survivors.
This was always true of the game, but when BBQ gave bonus blood points, you did see more killers try to spread out hooks to ensure they got their stacks. With modern day QoL, I don't see bonus bloodpoints being enough to incentivize not tunneling out a survivor early anymore.
umm, but .. , but as soon as you spread the first hooks over 2 people, I wouldn’t really call that tunneling anymore. If I tunnel, it means the first person I find is the target. And I stick to them no matter what. (Bodyblocks? Nice, good teamwork, I like. But nope. u are not the person i want.. I’ve got my target and now I’m committed.)
Hook happens? I back off. But not far. The area around the hook is my playground until the unhook happens — then I keep pressure without giving them a chance to heal up. And I do this until I get that -1.
Once you start spreading hooks over 2 people, I don’t see it as tunneling anymore.
So basically, when I tunnel, it means I’m fully committed to one person until they’re out. Anything else isn’t tunneling for me.
-
@Ikalx said:
Sure, but that's not to say that that tunnelling specifically has gotten harder. I think it's probably easier now, or maybe just more common. The game is about the chase, not the hide and seeking, and most killers will win any chase in the end - it's how they're designed.
Also I don't want to put too finer point on this, but the game is balanced to be killer sided by design (and more recent tweaks in the last couple years). So I can't imagine that a high level killer against high level survivors will be outplayed most of the time.
You're not exactly at a bad spot as a killer against strong groups. But... guess what? That's because everything exists — including the stuff you personally don’t like. Like tunneling, slugging, and all that.
And .. idk.. I don’t care about all that tunnel talk anymore. That’s why I always say: I don’t care, and just go all in. Even when there are 5 gens left, as soon as the opportunity’s there. Because in so many, like so, so, so many cases, it’s actually the survivor team’s fault for tunneling and playing dirty.
And I’m so tired of the expectation that the killer should just be blind and nice and overlook everything
That’s why I’m oftelike: Give me that tunnel or slug at 5 gens, and I’ll take it
-
kay, I gotta agree with you on Nurse — aura reading on Nurse is really strong. But honestly, what else am I supposed to run on her? Ever since they turned her basic hit into an M2 attack, the perk choices have become super limited. And trust me, a full-gen-regression Nurse isn’t any fun either. But Nurse is Nurse — she’s usually doing her Nurse things way before gen regression even becomes a factor.
They’ve taken away so many perk options from Nurse. What else are you supposed to run if not aura reading?
As for the other killers, I don’t really see it as a big issue. Just expect to have that perk early in the game, position yourself smartly, and be ready to take a chase with a Billy or Blight. On those killers, that perk is kinda wasted anyway — the other aura-reading perks during the match don’t do much, and there are just stronger perks that are also pretty unpopular.
(I think most people find a full anti-gen, anti-chase Blight way more unfun.)
-
@Ikalx said:
I feel like one of the things that maybe gets overlooked is also that dbd is a bit of a different game than it used to be. In previous years there was a lot more emphasis on hiding and seeking, but with the proliferation of detection tools for killers (auras, I'm looking at you), that's taken much more of a back seat. Not to mention on-hit sprint bursts were nerfed a couple years ago, amongst other things.
Is it dumb when someone can idle across a map and never be found? Absolutely, and I'm glad that's no longer a thing. But it's also kind of disingenuous to be defending tunnelling when eluding the killer is substantially more difficult now.
But tbh, in reality these things shouldn't be on the killer to moderate, it should be adjusted (and incentivised) so that it is facilitated by normal play.
Back then, there was so much stuff… insta-brand new parts, the old insta-blinds, old insta-heals, OP tiles, infinites. Has it gotten easier for killers? From my point of view, no. Those extra 10 seconds per gen really add up. Survivors asked for that change, they got it, and killers adapted their playstyle.
DBD nowadays has a totally different pace than before. Both good and bad players have figured out: maximum efficiency wins the match. People push gens like there’s no tomorrow, even if they’re injured right next to the chase — “the killer can’t do anything anyway” — so they just switch targets. My teammate was injured in a chase but still worked on a gen. Killer shows up? Who cares. I’ll just stay on the gen, let him hit me if he wants, I’m gonna finish that gen right in front of him while he cleans his weapon. My mate even takes a hit for me, and we’re out. GG killer, nice try.
I played back then too. The biggest difference was: there was no MMR. The standard response to all killer problems back then was just “this is taking too long, chase someone else.” That only works for so long nowadays. Eventually, you get into an MMR range where it doesn’t matter who you chase — the next person will do the exact same thing to you as the last. Everyone can chase now. And a fresh chase has all the good perks ready, ones the first person may have already burned.
And people have gotten better too. Watch old videos, see how “good players” moved back then. Now, good players run pixel-perfect close walls, fast vaults over the hardest windows, tech to deny bloodlust, ez tutorial killer, now window blocker for u.. Killers have gotten a lot of buffs, but survivor players in 2025 have also gotten way, way, WAY better.
-
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968874#Comment_3968874
But that's kind of the point isn't it? For a huge fraction of players, being hard tunneled or having someone on their team get tunneled like that just isn't fun. Just because someone thinks they won't have fun if they don't do something that objectively ruins someone else's experience, and possibly the experience of four other people, that doesn't mean they should do it.
In any games played with other people for fun, the players absolutely should think of the experience of the people they play the game with. Imagine if DBD were somehow played like an in person game. Maybe we could only play it by showing up and sitting together like a tabletop game. I'd strongly suspect that people who are known to hard tunnel would struggle to get a lot of people to play the game with them. It would probably get house-ruled out of most matches.
More broadly, I think it's a serious problem of online games that there are people who don't bother to think of the experience of the people they play the game with. That mindset leads to a lack of accountability for a person's actions, which makes it easy for toxic communities to develop. That lack of accountability leads to degradation of the social interactions in and surrounding gaming. But social interactions are a fundamental part of games played with other people. I honestly think that people who don't want to consider the feelings and experience of the people who they share the game with shouldn't be playing multiplayer games :(
To be fair, I get your point — and it's a solid one. I have to admit: you kind of grow numb to it after a while. Especially in those lobbies where you immediately dominate at the start and you know these players are going to go down fast.
But when you're used to regularly facing really strong teams, as a killer you simply don’t have the luxury or time to gauge how strong a group actually is. A quick first down doesn’t really say much about how the rest of the match will go, or how good that player really is. So you stick to your usual playstyle.
And then suddenly you’ve hit that point: “Oh. oppsi… that’s a win. And they’ve barely gotten a gen — maybe one at most.”
So what now? Let them go? Let them recover?The thing is, most players notice when you start going easy on them. And yeah, a lot of them just start farming at that point — and honestly… that doesn’t help anyone. If anything, it just cements the issue: players are ending up in lobbies they don’t belong in, and so am I.
And when you do “ease up” a bit, that group is going to die anyway. So you just make it quick and clean.
And often, even these kinds of players will still hit you with playstyles that killers really don’t like to see. (It’s not that you hate it as a killer, you just don’t want to let that kind of behavior slide, purely on principle.) — and that just reinforces it. So idk… , when someone’s being super dumb or just blatantly obnoxious, it’s really hard not to punish it.
I think you would hate me very, very, very much if you knew how I sometimes play, I guess.
Even when I’m playing strong killers, I still don’t cut any slack for obvious cheesy, dumb, greedy, or disrespectful plays.
-
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968854#Comment_3968854
You think that playing dirty in a game that's meant to be fun is completely alright? Maybe next time I play basketball, I'll intentionally foul my friends and try to get under their skin so they make mistakes. I'm sure they'll keep being my friends.
Really though, it's not alright for someone to ruin another player's experience just because they can. Forcing one player to be unable to play the game except to be eliminated, and making them not able to participate in the game in a meaningful way is definitely toxic. It's essentially the killer equivalent of what a bully squad is trying to do, except that bully squads tend to be weak. Meanwhile, tunneling out a survivor will typically also ruin the game for the rest of the survivors also.
Personally, I don't see matches where people tunnel or just run back to the hook all the time to be real games. They're just a waste of however much time it took the killer to win using cheap exploits. In that sense, those games are also like matches with bully squads: even when I 4k them, those games aren't fun; they're just a waste of my time since I'm dealing with people specifically trying to keep me from playing the game.
That’s just something you can’t expect in online games once you play with other people: your own fun isn’t always the ultimate measure of what others enjoy. Different people enjoy different things — and especially in online PvP games, you’re always going to run into players who get their fun from different things than you do. If you don’t want that, you shouldn’t play online PvP games — just singleplayer or co-op with a select group of people you know share the same interests as you.
I also don’t get the whole problem with “bully squads.” Those people bring everything they’ve got. They’re trying with every tool available to give me a hard time. That’s not bullying — they’re playing the game. It’s not the fault of the players who go all out, but more the mindset of the players who feel “bullied” because of it. Most of these so-called “evil bully squads” even type GG WP in the after-match chat. Especially when they’re good players, not just some kids having their 5 minutes of fame.
And yeah, the game doesn’t offer a lot of ways to interact. Sometimes you get a t-bag after a pallet stun if someone wants your attention — maybe followed by a little wave. I don’t find that super toxic. A quick noddin back, break tis pallet, and the chase goes on.
And it's never about ruining someone else's fun. If I have someone in my scope in ashooter and the match just started… yup, I’ll take this shot. Even if that person ends up out of the game at the very beginning and now has to sit through a 30-minute loading screen while we play it out smart — it’s not about ruining their experience, it’s just part of what PvP games are.
And in DBD, you have sooo many — literally hundreds — of ways to cover someone and get them back into the game.
You simply can’t expect your own idea of fun to apply to the entire lobby.
And personally, I don’t enjoy matches where I’m just thinking, “Huh? What is the killer even doing? Free heal under the hook… okay? What’s their mission?” Don’t just hand stuff to me for free.
Like… what? You don’t want me now? I just completely misplayed — hello? I was just on hook, I already lost a hook state, I should be your target right now.
I don’t enjoy games where the killer doesn’t feel like a threat and I know we can make tons of mistakes and still get out easily.
Not evryone enjoys the same kind of match — and that’s okay.
I enjoy it way more when the killer actually feels like a killer — someone you have to respect and have to play smart against.
I like it when I know: “Alright… one or two mistakes and I’m out.” That’s what makes the match intense for me.
-
I play both sides.
As killer, I don’t follow some unwritten rulebook. I proxy camp if it makes sense, I tunnel – sometimes even right from the start – and I slug if I need the pressure or if the situation calls for it.But that also means: no double standards from me. If the killer tunnels me as survivor? I don’t care. Tunnel me. I don’t care.
Even if you show up with something strong – Nurse, Blight, whatever – I know that if I’m the one being tunneled, I’ve got to step up and deliver for my team. And if I mess up my chase or don’t get proper cover:
Sorry team, I tried. my badIf it’s a really good killer and the map favors them and I’m not in a full team, I’m often fully aware:
I’m probably not making it out. Especially in SoloQ.
(That said – I’ve also had SoloQ matches with insane teamwork and cover from randys. Props to my SoloQ teammates <3 But yipp – most SoloQ teams still break down at some point because of a mistake or missing comms.)Either way, I fight until the very end.
Personally, I don’t think this whole tunneling thing is as bad or as big of a deal as people make it out to be.Most of the time i really dont care if i get tunneled tbh.
The entire map is now mine – I know where I’ve been, what resources are gone, and where I can still take the chase.
Way better than going against killers who are constantly switching targets, barely committing to chases, and just trying to catch people in dead zones for quick downs. That kind of playstyle just makes the whole match feel like there were no real chases. (more borin for me, less teamplay, less interaction)But anything you do that’s considered “dirty” will always be seen as “toxic.” That’s how it’s been since 2016 and it’s still a thing today. I think that’s honestly sad and unfortunate. For me, nothing that happens during the match is truly toxic unless it clearly breaks BHVR’s actual rules. As long as it’s within the game mechanics, it’s fair game.
what I personally think makes DBD “toxic” is the after-chat — that’s where most of the negativity comes from. d lot of DBD players have never really played true PvP games before and just can’t handle it when others don’t see DBD as a chill horror game with skill checks and friends, but instead treat it like a competitive PvP game it also is. ( I mean, everyone should just play however they want.)
but.. that’s something you just have to expect when you play online PvP games with random people — not everyone plays the way you want them to. Some play harder, more ruthless, and that’s valid too. I personally don’t take any of it too seriously. I come from games like Hunt: Showdown and Tarkov. I know what real “camping” looks like — when someone literally sits in a bush for 40 minutes just to hold a body and make sure that team has absolutely zero chance of getting it back.
And that’s why you lose everything. A Hunter you’ve spent hours leveling up is permanently gone, your entire loadout is wiped… etc. That’s why I can’t really take the whole thing in DBD too seriously, where you can lose almost nothing in like 10 minutes and jump straight into the next match.
maybe that’s why I don’t take all the “boohoo the killer’s camping and now tunneling too” talk in DBD too seriously, idk
Especially in DBD. Whenever something escalates, I always see like 100 things where I think, “#########, this could’ve been played way better here or there, or the team messed up at this point…” Unlike in a shooter where sometimes you just get randomly headshot out of nowhere after 30 minutes by someone who was just better positioned, and then you’re done.
In DBD, you usually immediately come up with like 10 things that could’ve gone better the moment you mess something up — especially as a survivor.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968746#Comment_3968746
This sort of "my 4k" entitlement is exactly why the game needs adjusting. Killers think they deserve to win. Survivors expect to die. So very balanced.
Sure. The moment I queue up as killer, I want my 4K. That’s my role, that’s my job in that match.
Do I always get it? No.
But do people have a hard time the second I play straight for it from the start? Yup, they do.
Because in that moment, I am the killer — and my job is to make escaping as difficult as possible.by the way — I'm honestly surprised you immediately label me as a 'killer main who never plays survivor' just because I expressed my POV in a post that specifically focused on the killer role. That’s a bit narrow, don’t you think?And saying survivors have no way to fight back or 'cripple' the killer? C’mon. Fight back. Don’t hand me the tunnel for free. Make me work for it. You say survivors can't force a guaranteed loss on a killer? Have you seen the sheer amount of second-chance perks survivors have? And you can stack them.And killer being the easier role? Hell nah. Killer gets way harder the moment you face actually good teams. Is killer hard for me? No — because I know what I need to do. I suffocate the enemy team from the start, never let them breathe, and that’s how I win. And yipp, I win a lot.But despite that, I still don’t think killer is in a great state. Not because it’s ‘too weak’ overall — but because the design isn't healthy…
and.. . :
You talk about fair losses. Okay — then what about OTR? What about DS? Dead Hard? Background Player? Sabo squads? Unbreakable? Shoulde ofBurden? Yada yada. Insta-down lobbys into second-chance fiesta. Are those wins deserved?
Asked by someone who’s 100% a killer main and clearly never touches survivor. For sure.
..
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968401#Comment_3968401
OK when you said traps, I was expecting Trapper, but you can do a ton with Hag. I get absolutely stomped by good Hag players with well placed traps and good predicting of survivor movement. She's one of the characters I dread going against the most cause her rare players are usually good.
How else are you supposed to play? Have you really never played that way? Like I said, none of these tactics even occurred to me until I was on the receiving end. I've never tunnelled anyone out of a match. Even when I accidentally pick up the trail of a recently unhooked survivor, when I see it's them, I turn around (plenty of killers swerve on me in the same way. Again, play surv and you'll see other playstyles from the other side.) I still maintain an average kill rate of 60% while often letting the last person leave. The only time I'll drop someone on the ground is if the team is crowding me with body blocks or they keep sabotaging the hooks.
The question that's come up again and again is 'is killer the easier role?" Only killer mains who never or rarely play surv seem to argue that it isn't. You're doing a good job at arguing that it is. The difference between the two roles is that killers can be cheap and completely remove player agency. Bad players can beat good ones with trash tactics instead of just becoming great at the game. There's no equivalent of this for survivors. There's nothing they can do to incapacitate the killer or put them in a guaranteed loss position. Absolutely terrible killers regularly get 4ks against my team with all gens done because they went into uber cheap mode at the last second. Four good survivors can be beat by a low-skill killer. That is the problem with this game. One side has to take undeserved Ls regularly, the other side is rewarded for being unable to take a deserved one.
I played against a Huntress last night that used no cheap tactics. Absolutely slaughtered us with a very simple killer. Didn't miss any of their throws. We didn't get one gen done. They were so damn good and I had mad respect for them. They also gave me the hatch because they were good enough to not absolutely NEED the 4k. Their kill rate is probably crazy even with the occasional mercy.
Also that's also one of the most cringe songs I've ever heard wow
uumm.. okay.. aright, so I'm supposed to give up the pressure from my early down → just walk off and start setting up traps around the map while 1–2 survivors are already tailing me to immediately disarm them again? Meanwhile, the rest of the team gets tons of breathing room for free gen pressure. And then, as a slow M1 killer, my best option is to chase a full-health fresh hook target. And if someone actually steps into one of my traps by accident, guess what – there’s usually someone right there ready to bodyblock. So I’m now starting a completely new "duel" with a fresh survivor that brings me zero value, while the rest of the team feels zero pressure, because I’m off chasing someone who’s basically a reset. A fresh hook means nothing at this point.
But sure - ur a right – I could just throw all of that away and hope to pull something off in the endgame. It’s a gamble. A lot of teams can still be taken out in the endgame. But like... why would I rely on that? Then you’ve got people who argue the way you do: if I play soft during the early/midgame and then go hard and "dirty" in the endgame, suddenly that’s considered cheap too.(and like... if a 110% movement speed killer manages to get a 4K with 5 gens still up – no matter how accurate they are – I seriously have to wonder which side played that match poorly.)
This is all just one giant gamble that relies on survivors messing up. But I want my 4K — not a dice roll.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968285#Comment_3968285
First of all, most teams aren't coordinated. The game doesn't even have voice chat. Many people play soloq and have to deal with absolutely useless or selfish teammates.
Saying good game after tunneling and slugging is about the same as an insult. I've never taken that as anything but sarcastic when people do it to me. It wasn't a good game for someone who got tunneled out two minutes in or spent their time lying on the ground. When you down someone, you're supposed to hook them. It never even occurred to me to leave them there until I started playing surv and people did it to me. It's an exploit. They wouldn't be trying to address it if it wasnt an issue.
And really, what is the point? If you give the team no chance, why even play? You ever play surv? You might gain some empathy if you did, and you can see just how good those games are.
Tunneling is just how you win. What exactly am I supposed to do? Try to set up traps while gens are flying and the team is laughing their asses off, gens zooming past everything, doing the whole “come chase me” routine— always someone behind me ready to instantly disarm every trap? And if things do get dicey, they’ve got instant heals in their pocket anyway.
https://youtu.be/QN7lU_orSMA
https://youtu.be/QN7lU_orSMAShould I go defend gens while people pre-shift into strong loops the second they see me? Nah. Sorry, little Sable’i — you might not like what’s happening right now, but this is the only way. We both gotta deal with it. You were just the first one I found — so you better fight for your life now.
“Or spend their time on the ground. When you down someone, you’re supposed to hook them.”
Yea? I picked up the Ace at the end. I hooked him. And I regretted it instantly.
Luckily it twon this shack chase — otherwise all three would’ve been back on their feet in seconds.If it’s an exploit — then please, tell me: how else am I supposed to play?
And then let’s get good people in a nice map for good measure. MacMillan with some juicy god pallet spawns, maybe Autoheaven with the fun fun bus, or hey, let’s spice it up with Springwood.
No event stuff either, for sure.
The killer is ready to “learn” how not to exploit.What’s the advice? Set up some kind of trap zone? Lock down a gen cluster and pray?
You think good survivors give a damn? They’ll just tap, disarm, distract, loop, reset, heal, repeat.
Go ahead. Show me the honorable way to win.I’m so open to learning, I even brought a notebook. Page one says: “Don’t play killer.”
-
I know how bad SoloQ can be. I know how hard SoloQ struggles. I know that the moment the killer plays efficiently and teammates either don’t do their job or make even one or two big mistakes — and the killer actually capitalizes on them — the team is going to have a rough time.
But maybe try playing more killer yourself — and not just casually, but against better players.
Then you might start to realize that these “coordinated” teams aren’t as rare as you think.
Especially at certain times of day.
Especially once you’ve crossed a certain MMR threshold.
Some of my matches last night were exactly like that (sure, there were some casual lobbies in between too).
But you know these players. You know how they play. You know what kind of match you’re walking into.And that poor SoloQ David in the bottom left?
Yup… sometimes he’s exactly the pressure you need.It is what it is.
-
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968324#Comment_3968324
This can all be solved with a simple screenshot of general statistics. Since your profile is private, the only thing people see here, especially in this discussion, are limited screenshots, where even on them some information is hidden. Why refer people to streams when you can show the number of hours played in one screenshot and not blur (why) part of the rest? Especially when you notice that people are already looking for a reason to doubt your success. You can simply not give room for doubt and from the outside such people will sound absurd.
It is not surprising that people will draw false conclusions or not trust. Everyone choose what to show and what not. The problem is that some people consider it a weird culture that people do not trust limited pieces of information and speculation, especially online.
Opening this discussion, and even confirming that my original intention is dedicated to the oddities of mmr and the illogical fight against the consequences, and not the cause, led to a dispute around SM and her kill rate. Obviously, you don't main her, and your first hundred games will be easy. The match history is not able to reflect the real state of the game, and you just hid the other killers. Most will doubt such a position, and that is… adequate. We still respect the position and opinion, we do not erase it or devalue it, but limited data encourages less faith. It is like that everywhere on the every forums
You already said my killrate and match history can have many reasons to look like this. Who knows, maybe I’m just a noob player who is angry that he can not tunnel that easily…
But why it doesn't works for your statistic as well? Especially on this discussion, where screenshots you posted already limited.
If anyone is curious about my playstyle, I can easily contact them later on Discord. But I can give one simple screenshot showing the total number of hours right here, without any difficulty. I am okay with people doubting me because this is the internet and many people's paranoia is justified
Definitely. Especially if you used to play Ghostie a lot, i think you know exactly how it goes
The moment survivors even sense that you’re struggling — and that can be due to a bad day, bugs, awful hit validation, or just a trash server — the circus starts. And with Ghostie, SWFs can get real cheeky.
Getting constantly broken out of your power by a strong SWF and being hard-stuck in pure M1 gameplay the entire match? Yopp…
I mean, sure — GG, well played to the team.
But for most players, it’s not just a “GG.” It’s the “GG” followed by a big fat “EZ” and the classic “tutorial killer” .I’ve stopped playing “nice” long looong long, even if that means a casual lobby might get steamrolled now and then.
You think you’re going soft, giving space and breathing room… and they’re still slamming gens right in your face.
(Which I do get — for a lot of players who aren’t stable in chase, gens and gen -speed are their only hope.)So now I usually only give just enough breathing room to keep control of the match. (I still play for the win.)
But the moment you do even one, only 1! thing “evil” — like going back to a hook, or tunneling someone just once because they literally ran straight into you —
that’s all it takes for you to be “the devil.”And you’re sitting there thinking, “hey, come on… I could’ve ended this game 3 gens ago.”
The moment you do anything to regain pressure or go for a win, you're instantly the bad guy. Doesn’t matter how you played before that.Having fun as killer is only okay if you lose.
Honestly, I don’t even miss the “friendly” interactions. This is a PvP game. A bit of rage and trash talk comes with the territory.
But in DBD? It sometimes goes way beyond that — like, way too personal, into some deep, dark, unhinged corners. -
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968285#Comment_3968285
It’s completely fine to play “for fun”, I just wish mmr system will finally divide people who actually trying to play from people who don’t want to be too bad and they fell “2 kills are actually good result “.
Only when these two worlds separate in both the game and the discussion, and people stop judging each other for simply wanting to win/have fun, maybe then we will be able to see whose side the game is on. Right now it is impossible, because a large percentage of the "high" kill rate is from killers due to weird mmr and a large percentage of survivors who are willing to ruin the game for everyone for their own fun. And I am not kidding.
Two nea and meg with aggressive flashlight clicks were enough for the team on gideon to lose to me in a nutshell. Yesterday another nea disconnected on 5 gens, they tried to gen rush me, but I just killed the bot and they had no chance. And I watched in the chat as a frustrated Lara blamed others for the loss. I myself encounter situations on survivors where my teammates are more toxic/silly than the killer, and I don't see a solution to the problem through nerfing the killer and transferring balance. Because it's artificial . Such teams with Nea and Meg above will always lose, while the killer will have fewer and fewer chances against normal players. Even otz said that the game is difficult only when the survivors themselves want it. Solo queue is terrible, because they can throw a potato into your lobby who loves farming and try hard killer. And here the feeling that the killer has all the tools in the world to win. If this were true, there wouldn't be a situation in the game where, against a strong team, your maximum would be 4 hooks for the whole game.
I actually enjoy the “sweaty” matches — I like it when neither side holds back. But 2 kills are never really the result I’m aiming for. Not because I need that 4K on the end screen (though let’s be real, pulling it off against a really strong team does feel kinda sexy) — but because that’s simply the expectation. People ask for it. At least from the groups I usually end up facing.
Killers learning.
Next time, maybe I skip the meme build with Devour. And you better bring Shoulder of Burden, David, 'cause your Marigold sure didn’t carry this and wasn´t that good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56v5mBzZd7wBut..yupp:
I’m with you. When you go all-in as a killer, a lot of solo queue groups just fall apart. Same with most casual players. One bad or unfocused player is enough to turn the whole team into an easy snack. (My kill rate is like 80-90%, (even on M1, so I’ve seen it firsthand.) (I’ve shared my kill rates here (yesterday?), but umm, I don’t think kill rates say much anyway.)
And i still think: It’s not that the killer roll is broken or OP, it’s just that solo queue is still a mess, and having even one bad or inefficient player in the game can lose you the whole match as survivor-team. DBD isn’t like it used to be where one person could carry everything. Not anymore.
Most rounds, especially with weak killers, are won because survivors don’t pay attention to their macro gameplay, even if everyone is solid in chases. They chase without thinking, (rip important gens) work on generators without thought, and position themselves poorly because “oh, the killer can’t catch me anyway — and I’ve still got my ds/dh/otr”
Or they just won’t admit that someone on their team needs to be sacrificed. (a lot of strong SWFs just break because they refuse to accept giving up on one teammate.)
It’d be great if lobbies were better sorted, and the MMR was actually decent. As a killer, you just don’t get a chance and time to figure out how good the team is early on. You get into a situation like “oh crap, one guy’s dead and 4 gens still up” and then maybe you could chill a bit. But then survivors notice you’re playing softer, maybe drop their item or throw you that cute hex:babypanda look. And you’re just like: Yeah, great. RIP me. And you’re just standing there like yish, ######### now, killing them now would feel even worse.” But farming feels lame too — if I let these guys go too much, I end up stuck in an MMR range I don’t want.
So you just do it quick and painless.
It’s not the killer’s job — it’s on BHVR to fix the MMR.
Kills and escapes alone were never a good way to measure who’s winning. They could’ve improved the old emblem system so much better. BUT: I feel like before they keep tweaking balance — nerfing killers, buffing survivors, etc — they need to fix matchmaking. The system kind of works, you get sweaty groups most of the times, but a lot of the time it’s just random mismatches with backfills or casual players getting thrown into games they don’t belong in.
So yaipp, I always wonder what’s the point of all the balance changes if matchmaking’s still this bad? I see it in my games too. Doesn’t matter what perks or buffs you give some people, they’d still die. And that’s totally okay! You can play super chill, casual, just enjoy the horror stealth vibe without needing to master every perk or map detail.
But those players should be in different lobbies
And only then—when players of roughly equal skill consistently end up in the same matches—can we even start to judge the state of the killer role and what balance changes Dead by Daylight actually needs.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968209#Comment_3968209
I don't see how it's soft to just not be a dick. I don't tunnel, camp, or slug and I still do fine. It's just being fair. If people play better than me then they deserve their wins, but a lot of sweaty killer's will just slug a team that's better than them or take advantage of their altruism.
But my point was that if you've been playing that long you've seen how the game has shifted over the years. Every long-timer I've talked to about this says the same thing: the game stated survivor-sided, was balanced for a while, then became killer-sided.
But if we're talking about MMR, my games are all widely different and I don't believe the matchmaking does much. I'm right at the average percents for killer and survivor. As a killer, I get much more quality players than as a surv. But there's zero consistency. One player is a noob hiding behind a rock and another is a madter looper p100.
Ok. I tunnel. I camp. I slug.
Does that automatically make me a dick? Just because I play the game the way it was designed — a 4v1 where I’m on my own against coordinated teams?I've never insulted anyone personally and I usually always type GG at the end. So how exactly does that qualify me as an bad person? :/
I guess I just have to get used to it — suddenly I’m the Big Bad Evil reincarnation of ultimate evil, just because I play a bit more efficiently as killer to win. Like that instantly ruins everyone’s fun and makes me the villain in this PvP fairy tale. Meanwhile, I’m really just trying to do what the game expects of me: do my job, killling.
-
@TimberGoingDown said:
Wait, tunneling went from "easy" to "toxic" now?
Let's be perfectly clear. I don't tunnel because I have a problem with the survivor. I don't tunnel because I want to "ruin their day." I tunnel because I want to win. When I (strategically) tunnel, it's with the purpose of winning the game. I don't even consider the survivor's "feelings" when I hook them twice in rapid succession.
Same goes with slugging, proxy camping, etc. Nothing I do is with ill intentions. It's to win. I learned a long time ago that none of the survivors care if I'm having a good time, so I don't care if they're having a good time, either. It's not like any survivors watch a gen pop early and then say, "You know what? I know this gen I'm repairing is almost done, but I think it'd feel really bad for the killer if another gen popped right now. I'll let him come kick it so the game will last longer and we can all have more fun together." And I wouldn't expect them to. I expect survivors to come into the match and do their best to destroy me and leave me with two hook states and zero kills. Because that's how PvP games work.
This is pretty much the only video game community where the majority of the community wants to dictate how other people play. Even in fighting games, people who complain about "projectile spam" or "meta slaves" get mocked and are told to git gud. I've never seen a PvP game where one side was called "toxic" for not letting the other side win.
Exactly. It’s nothing personal. Nothing against the person behind the other screen. This is a PvP game where both sides give it their all and use every tool they have. And the killer is basically fighting alone against time and pressure. Sometimes you just know: this match you’re probably going to tunnel hard and if needed slug as well. Even if there are still 5 generators left — if the round gets crazy lucky and it makes sense. Nothing personal.
But especially at certain times (and I play EU nighttime — always after midnight) … you still get some casuals mixed in occasionally, but generally an evening can look like this:
(yup with some mixed lobbies in between, but that’s basically it)
And what about David down in the bottom left? Sorry, David, but if I find you early, you better bring your A-game — it’s EU past midnight, and we’re in full tourney tmode now. What’s coming your way probably won’t be fun, soyou better step up
And if you end up as filler in a 3-man SWF that’s decided to “feed” you — well, you’re definitely not going to have a good time. But sometimes, unpleasant things just have to happen. That’s the game.
When you already know the other side has clean comms and they're coordinating to squeeze every drop of pressure out of you, you have to pick your targets wisely. That means going after the one who’s not getting any bodyblocks mid-chase, the guy who’s always alone for the classic “down in pallet” moment — basically, anyone who looks like they spawned in a 3vs1 against me.
It’s nothing personal against David, even if maybe in the lobby we already decided he might be a sexy target. You get to know a lot of people over time, and you learn exactly what happens when you give some groups too much breathing room.
-
@Unequalmitten86 said:
I don’t think every game is a tunnel or slug fest and it does depend on region. I also see that majority of games are a tunnel or a slug because they can’t let one player go or they feel they need to eliminate 1 player immediately. Majority of my games are tunnels or slugs with messages of get good. Player toxicity is way high on both sides and a killer just fells jaded at times and takes it out on the next set. Am I justifying it no, it is ruining game play and if it’s only happening in one region then there will be no harm done.
I also find it tricky to always label tunneling and slugging as purely toxic behavior. I tunnel, sometimes pretty hard, I slug when it makes sense, and yes—gasp—I proxy camp if I think it’s justified. And yet, I always type “GG” in the aftergame chat. I think it’s too easy to demonize certain playstyles as the ultimate toxicity. People who don’t play the way you want are often just as toxic in their own way.
The truly toxic stuff only really happens in the aftergame chat—and survivors usually often hold back less than killers do once the killer plays in a way they don’t like.
edit /
like you said, toxicity exists on both sides. Survivors hold back just as little. But labeling tunneling, slugging, and all those “unpleasant” and "dirty" things that happen in a match as basically toxic? I find that tricky. Toxicity is more its own thing — something that happens independently of all the “wah, tunnel, slug” stuff.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967916#Comment_3967916
Wild you can give your opinion with 7 years of experience and people have no counter so they just down vote.
The 4k pursuit is, I think, the biggest issue. The mentality that you didn't truly win unless all 4 opponents lose is crazy and kinda depressing. I kinda feel every game should have 1 or 2 escapes. That's actually a balanced match. Once I get 2k I'm kinda good with whatever else happens.
The final mori has truly made things terrible. A lot of killers were already bad about letting the hatch even spawn, now it's like non existent. I don't even really get it because the moris are mostly hideous to look at. I only do them cause it's easier than the hook, but I'd like to skip them just as much when I'm the killer as when I'm on the receiving end as survivor.
It doesn’t matter how long you’ve played. The game has clear win conditions that basically determine the kind of players you’ll face. Kills and escapes are your win conditions (aside from short lobby waiting time). If you play the way you described—super soft, letting people go more often, setting your own win conditions like 2 hooks—you’ll always end up in different lobbies than those who play efficiently to win. From your perspective, you have a completely different experience and different rounds. You’re facing different teams, even with 7 years in.
I mean, everyone can play however they want, every playstyle is valid, but if you consciously or unconsciously stay in a comfy low MMR zone, the tough matches will always be super rare. You’ll keep getting players who are usually less experienced than your 7 years and thus don’t challenge you.
If you go in to win and as Killer try to do your job as efficiently as possible, you’ll end up in different lobbies than you probably have now. (And personally, I like hunting for my 4Ks. That’s the game.)
-
@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967405#Comment_3967405
That’s an impressive kill rate - you are definitely a well-above-average player! I have no doubt that there are others like you on this forum that have a very easy time playing killer (especially if you get really good at S-tier killers like Nurse). I don’t think that’s the experience of the typical average player, though. The average kill rate is 60% which means that obviously most other killer players are not as good as you and have a harder time winning (3-4K) consistently.
Everyone is going to have a different opinion about what the target kill rate should be, but 60% feels right to be for an assym horror game. Some players (like yourself) will be much better and some will be much worse. I’m a long-time but very casual player and my overall kill rate is just above the average. The difficulty for killer side feels about right for a player like me. I remember what playing killer was like when the kill rates were lower and it felt much worse (many others felt the same way given how long survivor queues were back then). If we get to a point where average kill rates go any higher than 60% I’ll jump on the “nerf killer” train too. I play survivor about half the time, so I definitely don’t want killers having too easy of a time.Yeah, with 10k hours I wouldn’t call myself a "casual" anymore – but I always find it tricky to just look at stats. I know exactly what’s happening in my matches, and I also know that a lot of the time, both me and the survivors end up in those "we both know this isn’t fun, but we’re stuck with it" kind of situations. That doesn’t necessarily make anyone "better" – it just reflects how the game is played when you commit to winning.
The fact that I win the vast majority of my matches only happens because I go all-in from the start. It’s not like I’m "relaxed" and playing chill at first – that just doesn’t work once you’re consistently matched against strong teams.
Sure, killers got a ton of buffs compared to earlier years – but survivors adapted too. The pace and efficiency some teams play with today is insane. And most players, good or bad, have realized: maximum efficiency wins games. And killers adapt to that.
That’s the point I’m trying to make: the killer role doesn’t feel bad because it’s weak, but because once you start playing seriously, the only reliable way to succeed is through ultra-efficient, often “unfun” strategies. Especially when you start getting matched with really well-coordinated teams.And those "casual mid-MMR soloQ lobbies" you get in between? They just get steamrolled as collateral. But the problem is – as killer, you often don’t have the breathing room in the early game to figure out what kind of group you're actually up against. One bad read, and it’s over.
That’s what I find so frustrating. Even back in the day – with old Dead Hard, old DS, original Haddonfield, insta-heals, Coldwind, early Ormond – matches still felt more interactive than what the killer gameplay offers today. Chases were janky, sure, but somehow more dynamic. Now it's just clean-cut, efficient -processing.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967357#Comment_3967357
The demand for “proof” usually isn’t about evidence. It’s just a way to put the burden entirely on the other person while never actually offering a counter.
Ive never seen the opposite shown from the killer side of things, not one poster has had any stats to share for killer that would suggest they are in such a dire state. Or video, nothing.
The only thing I ever see in return is, “Well here’s team elysium”. Which is essentially telling people to "just get good, steph curry hits 25 points a game" while everyone here is playing pickup basket ball at our local gym.If we’re really talking balance, the thing we all engage with when we press the "Play" button on our screens for dbd, then both sides should be bringing something to the table.
Not speculating on tournaments we dont take part in, the games not balanced around, and not where the skill level any of us are probably even close to.Otherwise, it's just a bunch of what if's until someone wins an argument on the internet.
I don't really know what the rules are in this forum, but I'm guessing it's probably not allowed to share POVs – or more likely, most people just don’t record their matches to begin with. I think that’s more what it comes down to, not that people are generally unwilling or anything.
/edit:
the big problem I see personally: As soon as you're willing to go all in and play efficiently, you usually win. Sure, if survivors played perfectly and without mistakes, maybe not – but most teams do make mistakes. And as killer, you’re in the position to punish those – sometimes really hard.
And that’s the thing against stronger teams: you need those mistakes. And most groups will give them to you – sooner or later. At the end of the day, both sides are just sweating it out.
We’ve simply reached a point where both killer and survivor squads are pushed into this efficiency meta that only allows for a certain type of playstyle. And once you’re forced, as killer, to pull out everything (even the stuff people hate and consider "unfun") just to keep up – then killer doesn’t feel all that great, even when you win. (As long as the only way you win against many groups is by using stuff that’s generally frowned upon, then yup – that just means: nope. The killer role is not in a good spot.)
Sure, people say "just play soft" – but that’s not what most survivor groups are asking for. They don’t give you a single. damn. inch.
Neither side gives the other anything anymore. That’s just DBD in 2025.
Because of the current state of the game, you queue up as killer, go in, do what you need to do – but it’s just not always fun.
(and sometimes not for anyone this match xD)
-
@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967352#Comment_3967352
Can you back that up with stats? There are a couple others who commented here that posted stats to back up their opinion. I’ve never seen you do the same.
but stats don't really show what actually happens during the matches.
-
@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967352#Comment_3967352
Can you back that up with stats? There are a couple others who commented here that posted stats to back up their opinion. I’ve never seen you do the same.
Stats don’t really say anything about how a match feels or how it plays out. The moment you go in with a win-at-all-costs mindset and stop caring about any sort of "unwritten rules" — and instead bring everything your killer kit has to offer — you're going to face very few teams that can actually keep up.
The question about the current state of killer heavily depends on how much breathing room the killer is willing to give survivors. Because against really strong teams, the moment you stop applying constant pressure, the game flips super fast. And I mean really fast.
Just because you're winning a lot doesn’t mean killer is in a good spot, in my opinion. Against strong SWFs, it’s more like: you either dominate early, or the moment you give them space, you get absolutely steamrolled. There’s rarely an in-between.
And if you’re not playing a strong killer, most of the time it all comes down to the endgame anyway.
(I’m only talking about really strong teams here. Against weaker or more casual groups, killer becomes a total power role if they go all in.)
-
It’s just not fun sometimes. You barely have room for variation anymore. Against decent groups, you’re constantly up against pressure and efficiency — and once you try to keep up and play to win, it becomes super one-dimensional.
It’s dumb and kind of paradoxical: the moment you fully adapt and commit to "sweaty" play, you start winning most of your matches.
But if you give them too much space and don’t push back with pressure, you often get destroyed — even if they’re not playing well.
They make huge mistakes: bad positioning, poor movement, sloppy camera control, weak micro and macro plays... and yet you still lose if you don’t sweat.That’s why most killers play the way they do nowadays. ( heavily depends on the killer you’re playing, of course)
-
The problem is exactly that. A "casual mode" would just get used as a warm-up space by high-level players before jumping into their real (non-casual) lobbies.
Like: "Gonna hop in and snack a couple easy rounds real quick, warm up against some chill, casual players.""Let me stomp a few baby squads or casual killers before I queue into my real sweaty matches"
To make a mode like that actually work, it would need a massive rework — you'd have to strip away a lot of the "toys" from both killers and survivors to make it completely unattractive to sweaty players.
Not just perks, but things like boosted god-spawns, free info, gen splits, or anything that makes it easy to dominate casuals fast. Otherwise, it’ll just become regular mode again, but worse. -
There’s one huge problem I see here: the players who go into matches to win don’t care about Bloodpoints. They’re not in it for the points — they already have multiple Prestige-100 characters stacked up.
Bloodpoints are always a weird incentive, because they’re honestly so easy to farm anyway. Especially for active players — the exact ones who tend to "sweat" the most.
Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I get different lobbies. I play EU nighttime (after midnight), and in the lobbies I land in, no one is playing for points. And especially during event times, the whole 'hardcore sweating' problem is still a thing — and I fear that the very lobbies where that’s an issue are the ones that’ll keep sweating no matter what.
It’s a nice idea, don’t get me wrong — but I just don’t think Bloodpoints are what actually make people change how they play, sadly. The real sweatlords (on both sides) are just going to optimize the event the same way they optimize everything else.
At least for long-term, active players, it really comes down to the community. People play how they play — they’ve got their playstyle locked in, and they’re gonna sweat through events exactly like they do in regular games.
What might help (just a thought) is limiting offerings, addons/items, or even perks during events — but I know that takes a ton of extra dev work and planning. It’s only really worth it for something like a special mode (like 2v8).
Maybe I’m wrong. But I fear that a bigger BP reward won’t change anything about how people approach these matches.
-
"Killer, why are you so efficient and not playing the event properly? Be softer, it's for fun and points..."
Meanwhile: 4 toolboxes — 2 with brand-new parts — gens getting juiced right in front of the killer, throw in 2 styptics for variety, and of course 2 flashlights so the killer can’t even get a hook.
Both sides are sweating hard.
As always, I guess
-
not exactly the same maps every time, but it feels like I'm stuck in the same rotation. For me it's been a lot of RPD, Coldwind, Nostromo, Toba, and Mother’s Dwelling — so yeah, kind of feels like a loop of the same few maps over and over.
-
What do you mean by tryhard exactly? Are you talking about slugging the whole team to down everyone? Because for that to even work, a lot has to go wrong on the survivors’ side first.
Otherwise, downing people is literally part of the normal kill process — you have to get them on the ground before you can kill them. That’s just how the game works.
That’s not tryhard — that’s just a killer doing their job. XD