oecrophy
oecrophy
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008417#Comment_4008417
yikes bro hates fun
Not surprising
luckily what people consider “fun” is subjective. … yikes.. farming matches are the most boring thing this game has to offer. I’d rather take a fast 4k than a 15-minute farming match.
also, i’ve got principles. people who farm and hand the killer free value …sabo/kill their team … should feel the consequences.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008477#Comment_4008477
It sounds like it is affecting your mental health, friend.
There's no sense in torturing yourself, you've got to look out for you after all. Take a break, decompress.
DBD isn't everything.
Why would I? I’m having my funtime clean-wiping people who show zero gamesense, zero movement, zero understanding .. just 10,000 empty words,.. its fun speeedrunning this lobbies afap and send them with 0 gns done back in the lobby. IThe rest is not worth anymore, but i always find it funny what happens in this forum and the mindset of the people.
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Yup. Unless you tack on “btw I never camp, tunnel, or slug, I’m super chill,” you get insta-downvoted. The mental gymnastics are wild. . i… i´m so tired of ths forum.. i wish i just can say i dont care, but this people want to dominate balance discussions..
Survivor is — and always has been — the chillest role in this game.
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play some music, drop an item, throw the match and sell out your team … gift the killer this easy win early? .. uhm ye xD sounds like prime delivery for my super-fast 4k.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006852#Comment_4006852
And it went over your head again. So let me say it very very clearly…again.
YOU CAN PLAY TO WIN. JUST DONT DO IT IN A PROBLEMATIC MANNER.
You keep trying to lump tunneling in with “every other strategy survivors dislike,” but the difference is obvious. Survivors doing gens, using flashlights, or bringing perks does not erase a killer from the match. You still get to play. When a killer tunnels, the survivor is gone in two minutes and has no game left. That is not the same thing.
Yes, losing as killer can feel bad. Watching gens fly or getting saved after a long chase is frustrating. But those things still keep both sides playing. Tunneling is unique because it directly removes one side’s ability to participate. That is why it generates so much anger and toxicity compared to anything survivors can do.
You asked if you should avoid perks or strong killers just because survivors do not like them. No one is saying that. What people are saying is that tunneling is different because it undermines the foundation of the match. The fun of DBD comes from the back-and-forth, the cat-and-mouse tension. The moment a killer hard focuses one survivor out, that shared experience collapses.
And yes, players naturally chase winning strategies. But this is not chess or poker where both sides can sit through the whole game win or lose. This is an asymmetrical multiplayer title where participation itself is part of the reward. If the “winning” play is also the one most guaranteed to make others quit the game entirely, then it is a design issue and a player choice issue.
Nobody is saying killers should throw or play poorly to spare survivors’ feelings. What we are saying is that there is a difference between playing to win and playing in a way that drives the other half of the playerbase out of the match and out of the community. That is why tunneling is not just “another optimal strategy.” It is the single most destructive one, and pretending it is the same as survivors doing gens is ignoring that fundamental reality.
so let me say it again. Because for whatever reason no matter how many times we say it. yall don't grasp it.
The issue isn't with playing to win. The issue is a specific playstyle that targets one player and prevetns them from being able to play at all. I don't tunnel. I dont camp. I win. And i do it without tunneling or falling within the realm of that childish example of "oh i guess we just need to need to baby and not actually play killer". like no dude. Just don't play in a problematic way such as tunneling. Winning isn't problematic. Trying to win isn't problematic. Preventing a dude from playing the game (tunneling) because you are desperate to win…is problematic.
"Chastising people for playing to win a game is like chastising a chef for cooking food to perfection"
In this case…it isn't like that at all. You see a chef cooks food so the other people can enjoy it. The tunneling equivalent of a chef would be instantly firing a co-worker because you're worried their dish would be better than yours.
That chef metaphor does not work here. Cooking food to perfection does not ruin anyone else’s meal. In fact, everyone benefits. But tunneling in DBD is not like making a flawless dish. It is more like a chef deliberately serving one guest their full meal while taking another guest’s plate away halfway through. One person is satisfied, the other leaves the table hungry.
That is why your comparison falls apart. Winning strategies in most games still allow everyone to keep participating until the end. Tunneling is different because it cuts people out of the experience entirely. It is not about “playing perfectly,” it is about knowingly removing another player’s ability to even play.
So no, calling out tunneling is not the same as “chastising a chef for cooking food to perfection.” It is pointing out that the chef is serving a meal in a way that leaves half the table excluded.
And it went over your head again. So let me say it very very clearly…again.
YOU CAN PLAY TO WIN. JUST DONT DO IT IN A PROBLEMATIC MANNER.
You keep trying to lump tunneling in with “every other strategy survivors dislike,” but the difference is obvious. Survivors doing gens, using flashlights, or bringing perks does not erase a killer from the match. You still get to play. When a killer tunnels, the survivor is gone in two minutes and has no game left. That is not the same thing.
Yes, losing as killer can feel bad. Watching gens fly or getting saved after a long chase is frustrating. But those things still keep
both sidesplaying. Tunneling is unique because it directly removes one side’s ability to participate. That is why it generates so much anger and toxicity compared to anything survivors can do.You asked if you should avoid perks or strong killers just because survivors do not like them. No one is saying that. What people are saying is that tunneling is different because it undermines the foundation of the match. The fun of DBD comes from the back-and-forth, the cat-and-mouse tension
ehw, but maybe not everyone like the same thing like u. for me this "cat and mouse" is super super, super, SUPER boring.
but on the flip side: I like the tunnel. I like the first chase. this round is mine. the first chase is mine. I know all resources are still up. I have control over the first resources and the zone that’s being played. I have the control to avoid key gens. I probably have the most interaction with the killer this match, the most chase time out of everyone, and the thing that’s the most fun in this game: the chase. it’s like a custom 1vs1. and my job in that situation is to buy as much time as possible.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006061#Comment_4006061
We're getting circular in the logic.
It only works against bad players
Except good players might be aggressive, meaning they would be open to it.
This creates the obvious question, if survivors rushed to unhook were they good aggressive players or bad players?
add more handholding and that pressure disappears. how hard is that to get?How hard is it to get that I'm not even talking about this? I'm not even talking about anti-tunnel suggestions or anything like that, just that your logic is contradictory and changes to what you need it to be at the moment.
it really depends. are you trying to keep the killer in that zone? what perks are up? which killer is it? which zone it is? if people try that into my nurse, i get a tasty double down in seconds and insane value. if i’m on a normal m1, it can make sense situationally.. like if there are high-value gens elsewhere and people will actually get away (and can chase, obviously). against a small hag you can absolutely do it early, makes sense before she even sets up traps.
but y, hook rushing + insta going down is always super bad play, no matter how good their micro looks. i see it even vs nurse .. so 2 down, third person standing in los (maybe with flashy, sabo or wahtever), too. then they’re shocked when the strongest killer in the game proxies, takes this ez snacks, and the team dies at 5 gens up. that’s this community in a nutshell. -
@Throw said:
Downvotes made toxicity worse here
i like the forums at this point. getting confronted with the forum mindset is proof of the community’s overall mindset. it actually helps me play max-efficient, with zero regard for anything else.
keeps telling and showing me i’m doing everything right in-game. :D
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@Zuiphrode said:
It is not the obligation of the killer to make sure surv players have fun.
Just dont care.
if there’s one thing i’ve learned from this community (over the last 9 years) and especially from this forum: never, never make that your job. you’re not the fun police. play your wincon, follow the ToS and the rules, that’s it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005541#Comment_4005541
It's part of the forum killer dogma. If you question them, it is you who is bad.
Are we to the point where we are calling anyone who disagrees "newbies or casuals"
he’s super new. like, 500 hours total and under 70 hours in the last four years. that’s brand new for dbd … especially for a pvp game that’s been out this long. thats just no time.
doesn’t mean i’m calling him bad — i never did. why would i? he’s just new. and has soo much to learn. and not active enough to even get into the lobbies active players see. (and lots of killer mains i know with thousands of hours don’t do that either .. they often choose to play softer/meme/more chill/whatever, sweat every g ame is just not fun for them.. i accept that).
definitely not in a position to judge my lobbies when i’m sitting at 15,000 hours and normally 100 hours in 2 weeks (and not spread under 100 h over 4 years (he is just in super super new player lobbies and has a totally different experience, doesnt mean his is less worth then mine, but im not the person downvoting everything ).
i can vouch for my lobbies and speak on them, same way he does. I share my experience, same as he does.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005631#Comment_4005631
there’s no contradiction or inconsistency:I'll walk through it.
Here's what you said earlier:
It only works against weak or unwilling-to-learn player … too greedy, too over-aggressive, and not paying attention to macro. against people with some game sense who don’t overextend, the strategy falls apart.Here you are saying that it only works against bad players, even players with "some game sense" beat the strategy.
Meaning that the statement which follows it:
and the moment we balance around players who don’t want to learn or develop macro to counter tunneling, you’d have to buff almost every killer to keep up at higher mmr lobbiesDoesn't make sense. If tunneling only works against "weak or unwilling to learn player", then nerfing it will have no impact on higher MMR.
Everything else in your post is unrelated.
even (especially) good players get over-aggressive when there’s no counter-threat. they play smart because they HAVE TO … because there’s always the threat in the background that the killer could use their full kit the moment a mistake happens. (doesnt mean its always the smartest choice for the killer, but alone that this possibilty exists force the survs to play differently/smarter)..
add more handholding and that pressure disappears. how hard is that to get? at high mmr the meta shifts toward this, which in turn forces killers to get broad buffs just to keep up.
.. big ouuf, this community..
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005655#Comment_4005655
And what percentage of the playerbase would you say these, in your words, acceptable players make up?
maybe five? (I mean, you often get the same SWFs 4–5 times in one evening, you get the same people very often over and over again) .. Either way, I don’t care about the rest or the mixed. They don’t want to learn. I’ve read the forums enough to stop pretending I should be considerate.. and let’s be real, they don’t care either. i mean.. I’m a pvp player. so yes: Keep up or die.
And if there’s one thing I’m thankful to the forum/afterchat or whatver .. for, it’s that it taught me to show zero consideration for sometimes bad mmr ,.. and overwhelmed players. i know the mindset of this people of this community to much. Its not my fault that at some time of the day not enough high mmr player around.. or backfill lobbies exists. Its bhvrs job at this point to bring a better mmr system and not my fault.
If this community could be in any different, i maybe could chill a bit. But this community is what it is. So y, most of the time, i just don´t care.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005631#Comment_4005631
You keep saying good team, can you define that?
wdym?
just good players, players who actually improve learn every mechanic, practice new stuff, learn counterplay on release. when they struggle, they dont complain, they jump into customs to grind weak spots, learn new maps, perfect pathing, and test everything at the new maps and min max every loop there or the new killers. invest some hours in pracise: and u don`t struggle the moment u get on this map. (and u know the spots where a hard tunnel most of the time is not wirth) that’s a normal good-player lobby .. not casual stuff.. i dont care about casual lobbies: i mean, they dont care either
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005525#Comment_4005525
That doesn't actually answer in any way the logical inconsistency point. It's a non-sequitur.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005535#Comment_4005535
Ad hominems on top of it.
phew..
there’s no contradiction or inconsistency: a strat can be the strongest and still situational/counterable.. this hard tunnel isn’t an auto-win and can be inefficient depending on the team; strong strat doesn’t mean that it is the best choice in every single situation.
and good teams know a fast 3v1 can secure you the win, so they’ll try to make that first-hook tunnel super inefficient and costy for you.. thats normal play. and good team organize around this on surv side. thats just a normal part of the game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005535#Comment_4005535
Are we to the point where we are calling anyone who disagrees "newbies or casuals"
its only my pov. hard tunnel happens every day, nearly ever match, and people counter it every day. It’s the go-to because it’s efficient .. and good players know. so they try to to minimize your first-tunnel value.and normally they organize it so the first person in chase isn’t the one with Shoulder, babysitter/reassurance, yada yada. good teams coordinate that most of the time too, beside the area the first down happens. y, hard tunneling is strong, this early 3.vs1 is strong, but not every time it is the best choice, depends on the team and the situation.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005525#Comment_4005525
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ITCRGRW99QUQ/1000000069.jpg
At some point, you've got to do some introspection as to why literally everyone disagrees with you.
…and? It’s mostly newbies/casuals here. Doesn’t change my point. I’ve got my view, they’ve got theirs.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005063#Comment_4005063
It only works against weak or unwilling-to-learn player … too greedy, too over-aggressive, and not paying attention to macro. against people with some game sense who don’t overextend, the strategy falls apart.and the moment we balance around players who don’t want to learn or develop macro to counter tunneling, you’d have to buff almost every killer to keep up at higher mmr lobbiesThere's a logical inconsistency here: It argues that tunneling is only effective against bad survivors, but simultaneously that killers at high MMR couldn't function without it.
another person who doesn’t get it: it heavily depends on the survivors, their setup, the first person u run into, and the playstyle they choose…plus map, rng, and a bit of luck .. where you can actually secure a down. sometimes a single 50/50 decides it. One hit connecting or nah, or whether the survivor reaches a bad zone for you, can flip the whole decision: do you tunnel off first hook or nah.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005244#Comment_4005244
Not really related to the topic at hand (yes tunneling has gone up, BHVR bringing attention to it with the anti tunnel changes they walked back on will do that), but actively never tunneling, camping, or slugging is choosing to play suboptimally.
The only proof you really need of this is to watch any competitive scrim or tournament match. You need the first survivor dead asap so that your chases go from letting 3 survivors work freely to 2, to 1. It is much harder to pop gens in a 3v1, and almost impossible in a 2v1.
You can win against bad or average players without doing it, but it’s not the best strategy to win.
Not 100% my experience. I always aim for a quick 3v1—that’s the strongest state you can get (and most of the teams will give it to you). But if you run into groups that know this and hard-counter it, you often have to adapt first. When did I ever say ‘never tunnel/slug/etc.’? In "comp" .. torney matches, hard tunneling and slugging are basically standard. (and a proof that it has to stay) .. but .. what tournaments are you talking about? Every tournament I’ve played had pretty heavy perk/item limits on the survivor side. Even then, the first hook wasn’t always a straight tunnel if the position/area was bad. It really depends … and in public matches you often add all the perks on top that are outright banned in tournaments. This makes a huge difference.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004874#Comment_4004874
Unfortunately, the devs have chosen, time and again, to pritorize the experiences of skilled and experienced players over new and less skilled ones. I've been playing games my whole life, and online PVPs for 15-20 years and I've never seen a game with a learning curve like this one, particualrly for the survivor role. Hop on a CoD game for the first time and it'll be rough but you'll get the idea pretty fast, and you'll get kills immediately. Baby survivor is just a death simulator. There's little satisfaction and a lot of confusion.
I whole heartedly recommend making additional online friends. It's a lot easier to bear the role if you have people to laugh with and not take it so hard.
and I've never seen a game with a learning curve like this one, particualrly for the survivor role
Yup, totally agree. The learning curve is super massive.. especially for survivors. With under 1,000 hours you’re basically still in the tutorial. There are so many little things, factors, maps, abilities, perks, possible combos, loops you have to learn, and maps you basically need to know by heart so you know how to rplay them. And DBD 2025 is pretty unforgiving toward the survivor role…there’s not much room for huge mistakes. Strong anti-loop and anti-chase powers, fewer pallets. I’m curious to see how the new update plays out.. but y.. . SOLOQ and new player lobbies needs buffs, a ton info wise.. (especially stuff that strong people avoid by nature or basic gamesnese and swfs calls out anyways) but pls.. not too much that affects high mmr lobbies. :/
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005063#Comment_4005063
It only works against weak or unwilling-to-learn player
You have failed to illustrate this in any way, shape or form.
I did. I provided screenshots and povs from my matches, shared my statics, everything. From your side: nothing. I even offered custom games.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004285#Comment_4004285
No. It isn’t.
Yes, it is. Your initial argument is that you can deter tunnelling by just outplaying them. When I point out that that isn't deterring tunnelling at all, since this outplay would affect its alternatives more, claiming that the PTB (Which wasn't mentioned in either your or my argument) does not provide an alternative is a complete non-sequitur. We weren't talking about the PTB, we were talking about the current gamestate.
Heal meta back again
That's disingenuous, because it's a different one. Old one was a self-heal meta, this one is an altruistic healing meta. Just because both of them involve healing doesn't mean they're the same.
Gen rush still exist
Once again, in a different form. Folks used to group up with Prove Thyself and it got nerfed. Folks used to slam BNPs, they got nerfed.
Yes, the things that are currently in the game are not the things that got removed. They also happen to not be the things we're talking about.
Tunneling isn’t special and was already nerfed as well by perks and base kit BT.
Except it has remained the most effective tactic since the game's inception, copping some nerfs (And a buff) in 6.1. Since then, in the span of three years, it has been nerfed twice more, with DS being brought back to 5 seconds, and the release of Shoulder the Burden, and it has also been buffed once more with DS being nerfed back to 4 seconds. These are slap-on-the-wrist changes that have done nothing to change the game at all. Tunnelling remains effectively undisturbed and still comfortably sits on high as it has for 9 years.
It doesn’t mean gen rush and heal isn’t the most effectiv strats despite continuous “nerfs” (at least because majority of the nerfs was reverted) still. Because they are the most effective play style anyway. Same should stay with tunneling.
Critical distinction between the two, though: Survivors have to stay alive and do the gens as fast as possible, they physically do not have any alternatives. Tunnelling does have an alternative, because there's no mandate to make the game a 3v1 as fast as possible. It is currently the most effective strategy, but that doesn't mean it has to be. It is perfectly possible to make a game where it is less advantageous for the killer to make the game a 3v1 as fast as possible.
U don’t punish effective approach because
other sidedon’t like it.Except we do and we already have.
U stll can do stealth, but your opponent has an optional counterplay now
They always had counterplay. It's not like hiding was insurmountable at all. To go by your own rules:
- It did not cause technical issues
- It did not deny skill expression
- It did have counterplay
- It did not kill interaction
And no, hide-and-seek is not 'no interaction'.
U still can do stealth effectively as well
Buuuut, if the killer picks up any of their plethora of new intel perks, you do get punished extremely severely, which has effectively deterred stealth as a gameplay plan. We have not seen anything nearly this aggressive towards tunnelling. By argumentation that you, yourself have employed, the changes to tunnelling have not shifted the needle at all.
Survivor meta has been stirred up and reshaped over and over again, while tunnelling has remained static for almost all of 9 years of DBD.
I still want to get answer why I have to be discouraged by logical and effective strat from game and not player.
Because it -can't- be discouraged by the player. If you can beat a tunnelling killer, you can beat that killer even harder if they're not tunnelling. That is something you have effectively argued in the past.
So how is the player supposed to discourage tunnelling?
Except it has remained the most effective tactic
It only works against weak or unwilling-to-learn player … too greedy, too over-aggressive, and not paying attention to macro. against people with some game sense who don’t overextend, the strategy falls apart.
and the moment we balance around players who don’t want to learn or develop macro to counter tunneling, you’d have to buff almost every killer to keep up at higher mmr lobbies. survivors would like that even less. (not that is evry time needed, but it is the tool to counter over-aggressive and to greedy gameplay - otherwise survivors have a freebie there. What happens then we saw @ the last ptb )
Many would rather go “come to me, killer, I’ll troll” or “I’ll slam the gen right in your face, I don’t care.” Those are survivor misplays; you shouldn’t balance the game around that.
once rotations, some basic gameplay, and teamplay are on point, the strategy falls apart. (soloq need some more info at this point)
but..
just play the game a bit more then 70 hours in +4 years (thats just no time in dbd - and mybe not surv only) and u will learn some counterplay.
( i mean.. something like.. A simple ping wheel would already do wonders for soloQ newbies. Also a hud imrpovement.. cue that roughly color-codes hook distance per teammate .. just highlight the closest and second closest. someting like this)
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@Rizzo said:
Could you please attach the logs?
To find them:
- Press the Windows Key + R to open the "Run" command.
- In the text box paste the following: %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\DeadByDaylight\Saved\Logs
- Click "OK" - this will open your Dead by Daylight Logs folder.
- If it does not open the Dead by Daylight Logs folder, it may mean that when installing Dead by Daylight you chose to save your files somewhere else and will need to check there.
- The file called "DeadByDaylight.log" is your log file
Thank you.
Since today’s update, Nurse feels even buggier than before. You often can only blink once even though you’ve got 2 blinks ready
:/
DeadByDaylight-backup-2025.09.23-22.52.51.log DeadByDaylight.log -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004317#Comment_4004317
and any killer who can count ans has a feling for time.. knows there’s nothing far along anywhere else. proxy camping and hard tunneling to secure another fast down in that same area is the most logical play.
This is why hard tunneling early is a major problem. There is no situation where you can't justify it.
You bring up first chase, and specifically mention that first chase is important for the killer, and you're right. Survivors are strongest early game, and the killer starts the match with zero pressure.
But that's always true.
So let's look at first chase
As you mentioned, if first chase is fast, then "proxy camping and tunneling" mean that there's almost no gen progress, the survivors likely can't get enough done to recover the early elimination, and the choice is to camp and tunnel.
But, if the first chase isn't fast, and takes too long, then 3 other survivors have zero pressure, and nothing else to do other than gens, and "gens fly". In this case, the killer needs a comeback mechanic to gain ground on the match and recover... So the answer here is to proxy camp and tunnel the first survivor out.
And there's the problem: all roads lead to proxy camping and tunneling the first hook. No matter what the survivors do here, the killer is going to proxy camp and tunnel as what they consider is the "best play".
And, for "killers who can't count or have a feeling for time", they will finish a chase quickly at 5 gens, and not be able to do the mental math and time clock, and assume that 4 gens are "nearly complete", leading to the same "proxy camp and tunnel" conclusion.
The problem here is that tunneling early shouldn't be a game winning option immediately, right out the gate. There should be some consideration of "well that chase was easy, but instead of forcing this player out immediately, let's have an actual match with gameplay". These are comeback mechanics that are always available, all the time, and that is the problem.
And the only way that consideration happens is if there's a downside to tunneling at 5 gens, and a consideration that doesn't matter as much at 1-2 gens.
That’s the big difference between players who escape a lot and those who don’t. It’s not just only about having a “good chase.” good survivors know the map, know the important gens, do those gens, and if they’re the first chase, they avoid going down in that area so the killer can’t convert it into pressure (this hook + high-value gens nearby situatins).
That’s why I actually like taking first chase as survivor: I keep some control. I pick where I run and where I’ll go down. I’d rather go down a bit earlier in a safe, low-value area than hand the killer a hook next to important gens getting pressured. Otherwise the entire “progress” from my "long" chase is wasted. the gens are lost. This gens that super hard to get done in the endgame.
if you play around this, you rarely get those “team dead at 4–5 gens” games.
What i see on average: the first player dies around 2 gens left (and the killer often doesn’t know how close the second-to-last gen is). that’s the baseline.
in that world, tunneling isn’t a comeback mechanic anymore …. as long as survivors respect and learrn their macro. (this is a biig mistake most of the time) but what i see too: if the killer doesn’t tunnel early, it’s usually not worth it for most killers to start tunneling midgame. survivors who pay attention punish that: if the killer flips to “tunnel for comeback” midgame, they just lose. (everything else is just a gamble for this killer)
The huge problem is that 80percent of players ignore map state and team macro. they run nowhere in particular, try to use a single pallet, and only focus on their chase.. just run and drop, try to just survive as long as possible.
idk.. survivors probably need more info (and teams already call this stuff out), and new players need map awareness training. stuff like: “okk.. kay, this gen is safe .. maybe we leave it for late game?” or "Dn’t go down near our key-gen cluster.”The biggest and best counter against hard tunneling is : learn how to use the map to ur advantage, not only : Last long as possible in every chase. (y this is th efun part of playing survivor, i get it, ..but sometimes u have to avoid spezific tiles and strong loops as long as people pushin the gens over there)..
same with basic gamesense: I loose many times matches even if i manage to go down and get hooked in a for surv strong aarea and the killer has to cross the map the moment he want to protect his gens.. what happens? insta unhooks, .. against S tier , super early against nurse in blink range and so on.. … )
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004108#Comment_4004108
Its logical if most survivors are trying to get one gen done and killer downs someone there and hooks him near gen remaining survivors near it must hide and wait or leave because its logical they are killers prey and he like all hunters,predators is where his prey is if they try to dance around that highly progressed gen and hooked survivor they must count with consciences and in this moment its slugging, survivors must think how killer thinks too try to read him like in mindgames you unhook someone and two times he came back so dont healagain under hook because he will most likely come back so go away and heal somewhere safe this kind of readind and guessing will help you a lot like in chase you tried to greed oslett but he is brute forcing them so you will stop greeding and play more safe and other way around this is key to get better same for killer in order to get survivors you have to think where will they go and predict what will they do. Will they doge your hatchet right or left, go straight and greed it?
Yup… but this is exactly the huuuge mistake I keep seeing on survivor side. It shouldn’t happen. If someone goes down at/around the first gens, the entire first chase gets devalued. Even worse: paletts are gone.. for.. nothing.
and any killer who can count ans has a feling for time.. knows there’s nothing far along anywhere else. proxy camping and hard tunneling to secure another fast down in that same area is the most logical play. and a good early is soo important :( Survivors are strongest early.. and we just threw our whole early game. No killer with is going to give thatpressure up now. At least not the killers I face. And h.. i think, that’s fair. The mistake was on our team, and now we pay for it. The killer will defend that zone—why wouldn’t he? Math says those are probably the farthest gens, and he’s already got a hook there.
I see this go wrong in soloQ all the time, even when people have good micro and are solid in chase. That’s why in soloQ or duo I try to take first chase (or my duo mate does) specifically to avoid this scenario. Even if the randoms can run, I just see survivors make this mistake too often. One bad early and the match slips, because proxy camp into hard tunnel becomes super tempting for the killer.
big oouf huge mistake i always see Don’t give the killer an early down at the hot gen cluster. If it happens, expect this damn hardcore proxy + tunnel and .. most people doesnt do this : rotate out— (sometimes they just start greeed after the unhook the gens in this arera, or.. heal under hook, they hover the nearly gens, sometimes injured... they dont Take the chase away from the cluster when possible,.. its so important to spread progress at this pont, but they often feed the killer the same zone twice.
this is a huuge misplay.. but.. do we need this base handholdings for surv to counter this?? id k.. i think.. soloq needs a way more info to avoid stuff a swf calls out… but.. idk.. the moment in soloq i get the first chase, we have most of the time a good match… and this is not because i´´m rthe best chaser in the world.. i just try to avoid situatons like this. (i have good headphones tbh, i hear gens from very far away.. not everyone does. so.. y.. : soloq needs a bit more info there… swf call out this stuff anyways)
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@ImWinston said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004103#Comment_4004103
- That's exactly what I'm saying. If you're a nurse, you have EXTREMELY easy tunneling... why wouldn't you? 1 second after unhooking, you're already right next to the unhooked survivor (even without starting healing). nurse has truly incredible mobility. Same for kaneki
just go down in a smarter area, not between important gens in a high value area and dont insta unhook? not to hard.
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@ImWinston said:
- the real problem is accepting "hard tunneling" because "weak killers exist!", when in fact the majority of tunneling is done by killers like Nurse, Kaneki, Blight, Oni... in short, we don't eliminate tunneling to "protect" weak killers, but tunneling actually makes already very strong killers even stronger. honestly, a "high speed" killer is even more tempted to tunnel/porxy camping... 99% of the time, they move away to trigger a "grim embrace", and then run right to the hook for tunnel🤣
If the killer’s playing grim and leaves for such short window with a high-mobility killer— and an straight an insta unhook happens, that’s a huuuuge survivor misplay. Of course a nurse turns right back if she’s in range with two blinks. Why wouldn’t she? Bad plays and big misplays on the survivor side shouldn’t be ignored.
i dont play dump and blind only cuz i play something strong at this moment.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002796#Comment_4002796
You've posted a bunch of times complaining about how the forum is survivor sided and showing your downvote numbers as evidence.
I need you to understand that the reason you get downvoted is not survivor sided bias, it is because you frequently will make arguments like this - you will say kill rate is a bad metric of balance, but then use escape rate (which is directly a function of kill rate and literally no other confounding factors) as a "better" alternative. You want people to agree with you, argue better.
You can’t really argue with someone who’s played 100 hours since 2021 and ~500 total. Different lobbies, different experiences. and we only can share our experieriences. i mean.. : I play this 100 hours in two weeks. I’m just asking: should we balance the game around people who barely boot it up over 4 years / or complete newbies? All we can do is share our experiences. and his is just as valid as mine.
and my goal is to share that (my) reality, not win a popularity contest. So yup—whatever the devs do with this is on them. (and my reality may be a waaay different from his: different mmr, different lobbies, I guess.)
and .. its not about my posts: I just think it’s funny that anyone speaking from the killer side—unless they add buuuut I play sooooft—gets mass downvotes. Just kinda funny to me; it speaks for itself. xD (for me)
and also for me, this game is pvp. Most people in this forum don’t like that mindset, but it exists—same as the folks who go full meme with a full meme loadout and don’t really care, like “I just want to have fun.” that’s what I don’t like on the flip side.
so yup, different playstyles, different lobbies, different opinions, different playstyles, different experiences.
@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000012#Comment_4000012
I keft the game 4 years ago, because the Devs favored survivor so hard, i was unbearable. I hope your right about the new and better tumrs.
this is my experience from my matches yesterday:
https://imgur.com/a/fBzVblv(my matches yesterday - duo q only - no full swf )
and this has been my experience most of the time—unless we make massive mistakes on survivor side—against most killers in the roster. Even without the killer using the full kit (slugging/tunneling), it’s often an easy 3-4-man out if there’s no pressure. If the killer hard tunnels at 5 gens, you end up with like at 2 gens .. one person dead and two gens high. Once it’s a 3v1, that’s exactly the state the killer role needs against an efficient team that doesn’t give insta-downs. everything else is basically gambling on survivor mistakes—a coin flip that they mess up or are just bad—not really the killer “playing” for a 4K.
sure, you can get unlucky—bad rng, a fast down at the start—but on average my games go like this once survivors make few mistakes and the team knows their macro. Just my experience.
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I only know my lobbies. I have no idea about the new player/mid MMR lobbies in the current state, it hasn’t been my touchpoint for too long. like I said: stealth is usually not a thing in my lobbies, or only super situational. don’t know why stealth is such a huge topic here -> for me as killer it’s always an ez win, as survvior I get these people too rarely. if necessary, take a few chases nd go next. so yup, I don’t see the problem
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002783#Comment_4002783
survivors benefit from smaller maps too
This is actually not true.
The advent of some of the later killers added that has crazy map traversal, and certain killers that rely on terror radius builds has seen a MASSIVE gain in power level from shrinking the maps down to a postage stamp.
As someone who plays Doctor quite a bit, it has become WAY TOO EASY, thanks to the shock blast being able to cover almost the entire map if you get to the center. Combine that with passive gen slowdown perks (like dead man's switch), and you are guaranteed to get survivors off of the gen they are working on. And the first hook usually comes pretty fast.
Then you have killers like current Clown, Wraith, Blight, Ghoul, Billy etc, who can traverse the map fast, and put a lot of pressure on the survivors.
Maps needs a balance between small and large. Not super-huge like the old maps, but not as small as many of the current ones. Also, back before The Realm Beyond, there used to be a lot more ambient fog on maps, that also made them look bigger than they actually were.
A good example of a well-sized map is Freddy Fazbear's Pizza, or let's say the Shattered Square (which is completely square). Not small enough for Ghoul to instantly traverse from one side to the other in a single power use, or too large for Trapper to have a fighting chance on them.Larger, or more medium-sized maps are generally the best for survivors to use, since more space allows for more tiles, but it can also benefit killers, by spacing out tiles more, as to not make them too easy to chain.
What we really don't want to see are maps that are too small, and has way too many deadzones in them. Think Haddonfield and Rancid Abattoir here.Exactly the kind of killers like Doc needed those changes. Doc isn’t strong — still isn’t.
Dead Man’s? good players clock it: tap some throwaway gen, let it block for ~50s, move on. i mean, not a waste perk, but counterable in most of cases.
The issue isn’t just map size, it’s layout/design.
Smaller maps have survivor upsides: I’m fast there with a flashy for a pallet save, quick bodyblocks, faster resets; downside is the killer rotates quicker.
Billy specifically: there’s so much clutter and invisible stuff now that you stuck on everything — again, not just size.
Do we need map reworks? absolutely. But that’s mostly about other problems than “too small.” On Coldwind and Haddonfield they overdid it; I don’t even see size as the main problem there — it’s missing filler pallets between some structures + bad RNG on certain layouts… and we need less totallydeadzones
and rng is sometimes a mess:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqbL9CVnYQg&t=3s(already made a vid about this)
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002694#Comment_4002694
Yeah, I hate to be that guy, but it reads like someone is just feeding an AI with the contents of this thread and asking it to make a response.
15k hours, some tourneys back the days, and way too many VOD reviews — yep, definitely AI. Appreciate the compliment. xD
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I'd like to see you try and stop a hard tunneller from doing exactly that. Let's see how good you are at making a killer that is intent on tunnelling, stop tunnelling.
I'd like to see you try and stop a hard tunneller from doing exactly that. Let's see how good you are at making a killer that is intent on tunnelling, stop tunnelling.
nah. when I pick someone and decide to tunnel, I full commit — but survivors gotta give me that window first. why would I proxy in a (for me) dead zone with nothing there (no important gens), with no clue on unhook timing, no gen info, and zero side pressure while i proxy?? especially if they’re milking the hook timer. once I’ve rotated across the map into the zone I wanna hold, it’s not worth the efficiency to run back just to force a tunnel. so yipp : if I tunnel, I tunnel — that person ain’t getting out. do I want to tunnel every time? hell no. if they go down in smart zones and actually play macro, tunneling nukes my tempo. why would I grief my own pressure?
Let me just pull the pin here and make your whole entire argument collapse: Nothing you've talked about so far puts any distance between tunnelling and regular play. Nothing you've talked about makes tunnelling less advantageous than chasing a fresh target.
ALL of this is simply you complaining about bad survivor plays and then acting like it is that, and only that, that makes tunnelling profitable.
Not the early 1v3 and the default much shorter chase given the survivor starts with one evaporated health state, but just… 'Hookbombing bad'.
Take this, for example:
nah. tunneling puts a totally different kind of pressure on the team. said it a bunch already. as long as people still have hook states and don’t feel tunnel pressure, they laser-focus gens. it’s not about “one less health state” — plenty of survivors stay injured and keep pushing gens anyway. the real pressure is you pushing someone toward dead hook.
and when the killer isn’t tunneling and folks still have hook stages, there’s way less reason to play safe: no need to reset, no avoiding dead-zone gens — “i’ve still got a hook stage.” that’s the difference. this difference is huuge.
You know how this differs from non-tunnelling?
The 're-spot' and finding a survivor actually exist and cost time here. They don't, with tunnelling. That's all basekit and free.
you act like only cuz re-spot just vanishes when you tunnel. it doesn’t cost— you pay it in a different currency: while you hover, 2–3 survivors are doing gens, resetting, or setting up cover/bodyblocks.
choosing to tunnel (especially early, not on dead hook) is a macro loss — it drags you off your gen cluster. that’s why tunnel often isn’t worth it once survivors play smart: they go down in good zones (nothing for you there) and actually play macro.
once you’ve rotated over, running back to keep the tunnel is inefficient. a fresh chase at a hot gen usually protects more progress than hook babysitting at this moment.
You get 10 seconds of extra gen progress, but in exchange, you go down to a 1v3 in one full chase and two half-chases.
No one is taking that trade.Again, all you are talking about are things that are even between tunnelling and non-tunnelling, failing to construe any meaningful difference between the two.
You can get as verbiose as you like, you can say 'macro' as often as you like, your argument still falls flat because the game simply doesn't work the way you have conjured it into your head.
None of what you have mentioned makes tunnelling work less than non-tunnelling.
i already explained verything.. you can tell you haven’t even put 100 hours in since 2021. can’t help you there — go get your own experience. I’ve already laid out the differences; if you don’t see them, that’s a game sense gap. i cannot help u there to get more gamsense.
and yup, tunneling gets way less attractive when people go down in bad zones for the killer — places with nothing to proxy, no hot gens to guard, no easy side pressure. if they milk the full hook timer (those extra 10s are huuuge), pull last-second (trade if needed), and layer in the right perks, you lose tempo a lot by choosing to tunnel there. that’s the difference. you lose the game.
tunnel is a tool, not an auto-win. pick it in the wrong spot and you grief your own pressure.
Tunnelling doesn't teach anyone anything. Normal play teaches them significantly more.
it does, just not the lesson you prefer. survivors learn hook-timer discipline, trade calls, bodyblock timing, off-hook routes, when to reset vs. better slam this damn , and how to play smart and not to aggressive because its a threat to get found. and how important it is to use ur time during this match.
Everything you have spoken about has been presented without a single shred of supporting evidence, it's all just been whatever you feel like.
not even about how I feel ehw?— this changes.. it’s about how survivors feel. this is a change that isn’t technically needed for balance; it’s there to reduce newbie frustration from players who don’t want to learn the game and get overwhelmed by a tunnel. (better info + better MMR would be the real fix.)
Then give better stats. Give better numbers.
i don’t put much stock in these rates, but here are the latest numbers. like I said, imo they’d skew harder against survivors if people actually played macro. but this is what BHVR has published — and it’s the target they balance toward. idk.. my pov:this stats dowsnt say much and do not show what happens ingame.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002682#Comment_4002682
Ohh no you don't, no dodging what you said:
Oh wow—how new are you that you don’t know aura perks all have range/duration/trigger limits and hard counters?
Aura is ultra limited and not a big deal during a nrmal chase.
You think the "trigger" on these is hard? You think you can "hard counter" the likes of "I'm all ears" and "predator" on a whim? We weren't even TALKING about "in chase" we were talking about "good stealth". Your words, We'll highlight it in bold for ya:
And there’s still plenty of good stealth: break LoS, do short stealth cuts behind structures, little fakes/mindgames at tiles, walk-tech — all stuff that buys distance and seconds.
Edit: the idiot hit post before we finished the whole thing
Also, these aura perks come with heavy cooldowns and/or conditions (lose chase, fast vaults, kick the gen, etc.), so mindgames and short stealth windows are still very doable — especially during those long downtime phases.
Yes cause those "conditions" we could ohh so obviously work around when trying to stealth. And no, not just chase, STEALTH. Want another thing to try? Phantom Fear. You look at the killer at the wrong time your revealed.
Well?
DBD was never meant to be a pure stealth game. Back in 2016 the core loop was actively escaping the killer, with stealth elements — not full stealth. Maps and structures were designed for chases,even more than today. Stealth was always meant to be used during a chase to lose the killer, not to sneak off early and sit in a bush all match. That got abused, which is why grass got reworked, maps were made brighter, and certain offerings were removed. (bye bye full moon) So no, I wouldn’t call that “good stealth” — it’s a playstyle survivors abused to drag games out, and it was never the original idea.
and phantom fear.. come on.. 2 sek aura with 60 sek cooldown. noone plays this perk.
it’s not intended that someone can completely avoid killer contact — everyone has to get found at some point. thos chance has to be there. if you can’t accept that, maybe this isn’t your game. if 2 seconds of reveal into a maybe insta-down is a problem, there’s a lot of room to improve. you can’t balance the game around that, because some players turn a 2sek aura into a 60s chase and don’t go down instant. and there are plenty of short stealth moves to briefly break los, buy a few extra seconds, extend a structure, or just create (sometimes ´huuuuge) distance.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002659#Comment_4002659
So, first of all, do you just use AI to generate your posts? Insane over use of em-dashes, bullet points like you got a good deal wholesale, and bolding everything for no reason.
Secondly, I never said op. You're right, it's a thermostat, and it went from 50% to 60% over those same 3 years you're crying about. And yet you seem to be also claiming that it went down at the same time.
Which means that for all of those changes, some of which are genuinely laughable, the overall balance of the game was decidedly, objectively more in the killers favor. That's exactly what that thermostat means.
lol thanks for the compliment. kinda says a lot about the mentality these days → people can’t be bothered to format and keep posts readable. and funfact: you can look up every single change yourself
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/categories/1-patch-notes
not this hard.
and before that there were some killer-leaning changes, sure : but they sit outside this 2-year window. we’re talking map reworks plus nerfs to overtuned survivor stuff (boons, etc.). those were necessary to bring and buff killer up to a baseline that they can keep up.
and it wasn’t a one-way ticket. survivors benefit from smaller maps too: faster resets, shorter rotations, teammates easier to reach for bodyblocks, yada yada. the biggest nerf was cutting pallet density —> and that was needed, come on .. the old maps were broken af. especially after MMR made it crystal clear how insanely survivor-sided the game was at the time. I’ve said this earlier already: Smaller maps are good for survs too.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002599#Comment_4002599
In my group it was more mixed, and we actually saw less tunneling than in average pub lobbies on live. Most people just wanted to test the new changes.
First, look across the forums. You could have throw a stone and hit someone who's experienced it or talked about the uptick since the announcement of the changes being put on hold. Second we play at sundown EST. We haven't seen much more but that's because the amount we're used to is a lot already.
Sure, some strong structures have fixed spawns. For the rest, good survivor macro is just reading the RNG fast and leveraging it. That’s a normal part of the game.
You said that's how a map is built but it's built with RNG. Some maps currently have near nil after one pass. No amount of leveraging is going to help if you have nothing to use. And before you inevitably blame it on survivors, its always going to be a different call if you need to use that resource now or not. On death hook and killers close in chase? Betting your going to use it.
Wrong layer. The issue is entry-level MMR + missing onboarding/solo info. A global anti-tunnel bubble hits every MMR and flips matches where it isn’t needed (and can be outright harmful).
Correct layer. You EXPLICITLY said broader. Broader is not entry level, it's not the extreme skill level, it's the big pack in the middle (level). There's 3 things people can do against tunneling currently. 1. Bring full anti-tunnel build, which only delays the inevitable and not everyone will have them due to almost all being dlc, of which some cost real cash. 2. Extreme coordination and efficiency, which solos have no access to coordinating their team and most swfs aren't the super 4 man SWAT teams nor have any desire to be. 3. An extreme imbalance of skill where the survivor is much more competent than the killer, which is effectively a match making error and down to luck. Just the anti tunneling? Not all that bad for those who don't hyper tunnel.
Stealth dumps the cost on the team: one guy brings 0 pressure/info/saves, the other three are basically playing 3v1.
Not sure you read what we typed. One guy brings pressure and progress in the form of the most valuable commodity in dbd, time. The killer trying to find you is more time for the team to do as they please. The killer says screw that means more time for you to do whatever you please. And should the killer waste time hunting you down and finds you? They still have to catch you meaning more time before your even injured. Only the actual rat players give value to the killer, stealth itself is a strong tool in the right hands.
So of course I leave the gen and take hook pressure / hard tunnel—that’s guaranteed pressure on the scoreboard.
But until that unhook happens, the others are free to do as we said.
Trying to hold that gen is a coin flip that only pays if the lobby is chaos
If a lobby isn't chaos both sides are playing extremely wrong.
Oh wow—how new are you that you don’t know aura perks all have range/duration/trigger limits and hard counters?
…Ohh yes
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DMD2TDWFUKQF/1000000788.png
So hard to trigger
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4UUBHN6HLFIS/1000000791.png
Their range is so poor
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/61Q8HA04EYG0/1000000790.png
We must be so new
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IIQPF19U9EUX/1000000792.png
Obviously we don't know anything…right?
...go ahead and keep making assumptions
Predator / I´m all ears stuff
Tbh this shines mostly on Nurse — aura reads erase distance because she just blinks to you. On most other killers? If your pathing + cam control are decent, you’ll live even if they see you for 4–6s (+2s if they burn a perk slot on Lethal). That’s why you barely see these perks outside niche builds.And..
If you suspect Nowhere to Hide, play for it: don’t crouch behind a random rock near the gen — wait at a checkspot near a pallet or a tile you can actually take a chase from. If the perk’s confirmed, weaponize it: you know he wants the kick → free time to rotate and build distance while he kicks. Struggling with a 4–6s aura usually means a positioning issue, not that the perk is broken.Thats on you. Maybe this is a point where u can improve.
Also, these aura perks come with heavy cooldowns and/or conditions (lose chase, fast vaults, kick the gen, etc.), so mindgames and short stealth windows are still very doable — especially during those long downtime phases.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002623#Comment_4002623
Funny how those kill rates went up during that time and sit pretty solidly at 60%+ at the end of all those changes.
Also
Empathic Connection got buffed hard
Really. That's your big "gotcha" for survivor side. Seriously?
Killrate ~60% is a thermostat, not proof killers are "OP". EC was just an example.
Last 2 years killers ate: anti-facecamp basekit, hard 3-gen cap, UW gutted, STBFL −2 tokens on any Obsession health state, DMS = 1 gen only.
“Survivors get nothing” is storytime, not fact — EC was one example (of many - and not a judgment on its meta viability). to bust that “we get nothing, killers get everything” narrative.And no, I’m not ranking or rating anything — just facts, because that narrative is absurd and crazy wild.
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@coolgue1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002623#Comment_4002623
most of your so called nerfs were just problematic and very abused for months before they even got slight nerfed because it was unbalanced u clearly don't want a challenge as killer the way survivor have to challenge themselves and u forgot that they nerfed most maps to favor the killer long before any of these buffs were put in place any hun u got 1.5k down votes on you profile wonder why
When the arguments run out, the downvotes show up. Patch notes don’t change because of that. Downvotes aren’t an argument — examples are.
We’re talking system hits over the last two years: anti-facecamping (basekit escape meter on hook), a hard 3-gen cap, Ultimate Weapon lost the scream + half the duration + longer CD, Save the Best for Last lost value and –2 tokens whenever the Obsession loses a health state in any way, Dead Man’s Switch rework (only blocks one gen, no re-trigger while it’s active), Deadlock/Pop/Pain Res trimmed, Blight/Billy to 40m TR, Xeno tail charge slower, and Finishing Mori only works with ≥ 2 survivors alive. If that’s “light,” what would “heavy” look like?
And since you explicitly said the last 2 years: there were no big map reworks. Mostly small tile/collision passes and targeted tweaks. The big rework wave was before that.
If you still want to talk map changes and we only look at the last 2 years (the biggest ones were earlier), then here’s the 2-year snapshot:
Ormond (early 2024) — front used to be a dead zone, got real loops; back area with short, unsafe pallets plays better now → slightly survivor-sided.
Coldwind (summer 2024) — new/varied maze tiles plus more lockers → slightly survivor-sided.
Garden of Joy & MacMillan (late 2024) — mostly collision/map fixes → neutral (QoL for both sides, no clear power swing).
Eyrie of Crows — main building update: window positions changed, balcony now has outward drops; tile pool cleaned up (fewer micro collisions) and new double-pallet tiles added → cleaner flow, slight killer lean for some killers; map plays better for killer overallThe forum can feel like a survivor echo chamber — don’t care. If you want to refute this, bring concrete examples from the last 24 months (clips/patch notes). Otherwise it’s opinion vs. facts.
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@coolgue1 said:
the last 2 year every patch buffs killers like multiple of them to the point of no brainer so yes they very much doo
Killer nerfs the last 2 years:
late 2023: anti-facecamping landed. if you park under hook, a bar fills and the hooked survivor can bail, so hard camping got way worse. skull merchant lost the turtle-gen cheese (active zones gone, drones don’t lock gens the same anymore).
a bit after that: trickster got louder and slower in effect — terror radius bumped from 24→32m, needs 8 knives to injure instead of 6, decay doesn’t help you as much. stealth/ttk definitely worse.
early 2024: 3-gen cap showed up — each gen only gets 8 regression events, so pure “kick & hold” stall is nerfed. save the best for last is weaker: 4% per token (was 5%), and you drop 2 tokens whenever the obsession loses a health state in any way, not just a basic hit. blight lost several top add-ons (blighted crow/rat less rush speed; adrenaline vial + alchemist’s ring reworked/toned down).
spring 2024: ultimate weapon got smacked — no more scream, just aura read, duration halved (30→15s) and a fatter cooldown (up to 80/70/60). way less free info/interrupts.
summer 2024: blight and billy both moved to a 40m terror radius (harder to sneak or proxy). xenomorph tail charge slowed from 0.2→0.3s, so the poke is less instant.
summer 2025: finishing mori only works if at least two survivors are still up — no more “last guy = free mori.” haste perks trimmed: unbound 10%→7% (lasts longer but net weaker) and machine learning 10% → 8%
later 2025: pig’s john’s medical file crouch speed bonus is 10%→5% (base pig got love elsewhere, but the add-on itself is a nerf).
and lookin at ehe perks:
Deadlock — shorter block now: 15/20/25s instead of 20/25/30, so less free stall.
Grim Embrace — early locks are weaker (6/8/10s instead of 8/10/12) and it only triggers after you leave the anti-camp zone at the hook.
Pop Goes the Weasel — kick regression down (current progeess.)
Pain Resonance — regression is 10/15/20% instead of 15/20/25%.
Dead Man’s Switch (rework) — only blocks one gen now and can’t retrigger while it’s active, so no more multi-gen lock.
… meanwhile surv buffs the last 2 years:
late 2023: anti-facecamping went live. camp under hook and a bar fills so the hooked player can bail with Endurance — way more agency, especially in soloq. skull merchant’s gen-turtle nonsense got gutted as part of the same wave.
early 2024: 3-gen stall got capped — each gen only eats a limited number of hard regress events, so pure “kick & hold” is way weaker and endgames feel less doomed on bad spawns.
mid/late 2024 perk glow-up: teamwork perks lost their cooldowns and got “linger,” Corrective Action upgrades teammates’ misses to Greats, Inner Focus shows way more info with no range limit, Blood Rush got simplified (focus on that fast Exhaustion recovery after unhook), Quick Gambit works from anywhere + shows teammate auras while you’re chased (with a CD), Lucky Star lingers long enough to matter, and Poised even pings Killer aura when you start a gen. Cleaner, stronger, easier to trigger overall.
also 2024 mini-buffs: Blast Mine/Wiretap/Flashbang trigger sooner, Diversion/Deception/Dance With Me have shorter CDs, and the “newer” toys like Mirrored Illusion & Chemical Trap ask for way less gen progress to activate.more frequent value for deception/utility builds.
system/QoL bumps around then: survivor spawns got standardized (closer together, same floor when possible), “go-next” griefing started getting flagged/penalized, surrender became possible in truly unwinnable states, and AFK crows got stricter so extreme hiding stalls less. Fewer throwy lobbies, less time-waste.
mid 2025 perk pass: Botany dropped the med-kit efficiency penalty (finally), Champion of Light & Light-Footed got shorter CDs, Desperate Measures got fatter numbers, Exultation refunds a lot more item juice on pallet stuns, Counterforce zooms through totems and marks the far one longer, and Empathic Connection went basically map-wide (plus a tidy heal bonus). Big usability jump for team sustain/info.
Empathic Connection got buffed hard: injured teammates basically see your aura map-wide now, plus a small heal boost.
Also a bunch of perk touch-ups: Any Means Necessary, Appraisal, Better Together (Situational Awareness), Built to Last, Déjà Vu, Detective’s Hunch, Potential Energy, Still Sight — all cleaner and give value more often. Streetwise got reworked to play nicer with items. Not OP, just way more usable.
not to forget the release of Shoulder and other strong perks
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001920#Comment_4001920
As usual, everything with DBD is anecdotal but I personally don't buy this argument so much. In my own experience, I only remember one trial in particular where a Survivor was running it purely to rat for hatch. I think it likely had a lot more to do with Killer being unable to find Survivors over Survivors sabotaging their own team. That was the same time where Survivors were more likely to hide once the trial bottlenecked, which BHVR has nerfed a couple times already purely in Killer's favor. But selfishness was a good enough excuse to advocate and push for those nerfs without criticism (in my opinion).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001926#Comment_4001926
To be totally fair, Distortion was always popular but definitely gained prominence both after the buff and when tunneling out the first Survivor became even more common. I'm not ashamed to admit that letting someone else get tunneled out first became the proper play. It was like turning lemons into lemonade. In that situation, you would ideally want to address tunneling instead of nerfing one of the few defenses against it (despite how messy it was) but as we know that is not what happened.
My experience with Distortion survivors: I didn’t see it that often, and during the big Distortion wave I was in a different meta anyway, so it didn’t tilt me.
When I did see it, it was usually people waiting for someone else to take first chase, trying to shed the tunnel, and not covering dead hooks even with a clear tunnel and two hook states left—you can step in there, even if you go down, the killer usually has a clear target anyway.
I probably get different lobbies than Firellius (~500h); vs brand-new killers stealth might work and they’ll play hide-and-seek, but in my lobbies killers grab pressure elsewhere instead of searching forever. (same as i do)
Watching some of them in spectate, the camera control/movement often looked like Distortion put them in lobbies they didn’t belong in; when they finally met the killer it was insta-down. I’ve always been relaxed about it because as survivor you don’t control your team—once you hit ready you accept whoever you get; they might be doing achievements/challenges, meme runs, recording YouTube, whatever. You can’t expect optimal, team-win play with randoms. For what it’s worth, I never sold Distortion players to the killer, but I saw plenty of randoms deliberately feeding the stealth player; from killers I rarely saw toxic after-chat. Different lobbies, different experiences.
idk. Only my experience.
As killer, Distortion never bothered me tbh. As surv? sometimes, y. but it was super rare …
but uhm.. it was super rare—and I never had a problem taking the tunnel if the distortion ppl didn’t want chase and were otherwise doing their job. What did annoy me was when there’s no cover even though teammates are right there and could bodyblock—but you see that with or without Distortion (BHVR, better matchmaking pls).
buut.. I heard way more Distortion hate from survivors than from killers—like, a lot more. -
@Rulebreaker said:
almost every match was a 3–4 out, we only dropped two games. It clearlybroke balance— and that wasbeforewe even had time to figure out how to max-abuse the new system.We're a lot more inclined to believe that many killers hyper relied on tunneling and those implications rather than that breaking balance…ya know, considering its seen across the board even when it would be stupid to do.
You’ve got
main + key gens, strong windows, strong structures — that’s how the map is built.You realize most of the map is RNG generated correct?
Balance for the broader population; protect true newbies via matchmaking.You realize the broader population would then need things like the tunneling nerf correct? As the broader population does not do perfect plays nor can things like solos having real time coordination to combat it. So we'd ask if you want to balance for the broader population, why was the ptb anti tunneling bad (not the whole ptb before you jump sharks)?
It was rarely “Distortion alone,” it was the
stealth gameplanbehind it.So if you know theres a survivor working on a important gen (it has progress) yet you can't find them, do you hunt that survivor or do you leave the gen? Depends on the situation correct? Cause if that one is say one of the last 3 gens and theres 2-3 alive, your going to be at risk of one of the others popping. If its the start you'd need to decide if that gen is worth the effort. The good stealth gameplan is forcing the killer to choose from two choices: either buying time for the team by having the killer hunt you down or get them to f off while you work.
And there’s still plenty of
good stealth: breakLoS, doshort stealth cutsbehind structures, littlefakes/mindgamesat tiles,walk-tech— all stuff that buysdistance and seconds.Which does nil against aura reading. In fact some of those lose seconds seconds against the smarter killers. And some of those aren't even stealth if we're honest.
We're a lot more inclined to believe that many killers hyper relied on tunneling and
thoseimplications rather than that breaking balance…ya know, considering its seen across the board even when it would be stupid to do.
What time and what region were you playing?
In my group it was more mixed, and we actually saw less tunneling than in average pub lobbies on live. Most people just wanted to test the new changes.You realize most of the map is RNG generated correct?
What are you trying to say?
Sure, some strong structures have fixed spawns. For the rest, good survivor macro is just reading the RNG fast and leveraging it. That’s a normal part of the game.You realize the broader population would then need things like the tunneling nerf correct? As the broader population does not do perfect plays nor can things like solos having real time coordination to combat it. So we'd ask if you want to balance for the broader population, why was the ptb anti tunneling bad (
notthewholeptb before you jump sharks)?
Wrong layer. The issue is entry-level MMR + missing onboarding/solo info. A global anti-tunnel bubble hits every MMR and flips matches where it isn’t needed (and can be outright harmful).
Constructive: fix MMR/onboarding, expand solo info. Protect true newbies, yes — but not with global freebies that reward ignoring macro and distort games across all lobbies.So if you know theres a survivor working on a important gen (it has progress) yet you can't find them, do you hunt that survivor or do you leave the gen? Depends on the situation correct? Cause if that one is say one of the last 3 gens and theres 2-3 alive, your going to be at risk of one of the others popping. If its the start you'd need to decide if that gen is worth the effort. The good stealth gameplan is forcing the killer to choose from two choices: either buying time for the team by having the killer hunt you down or get them to f off while you work.
Stealth dumps the cost on the team: one guy brings 0 pressure/info/saves, the other three are basically playing 3v1. In SoloQ that’s not a “gameplan,” that’s grief by proxy. And against me it doesn’t work. Your “force the killer to pick” idea is a huge gamble: defending a progressed gen while all four are alive is EV-bad unless the team is disorganized. So of course I leave the gen and take hook pressure / hard tunnel—that’s guaranteed pressure on the scoreboard. Trying to hold that gen is a coin flip that only pays if the lobby is chaos or super low MMR. Versus any coordinated team you’re not saving that gen anyway; you win by removing a player, not by babysitting a tile.
Which does nil against aura reading. In fact some of those lose seconds seconds against the smarter killers. And some of those aren't even stealth if we're honest.
Oh wow—how new are you that you don’t know aura perks all have range/duration/trigger limits and hard counters?
Aura is ultra limited and not a big deal during a nrmal chase.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002479#Comment_4002479
Our killers weren’t bad. Sure, some — PTB + soft MMR — but plenty knew exactly what they were doing. The whole “killers are just bad, git gud” take is lazy.
But 'survivors are just bad, git gud' is perfectly fine?
You’re talking about playing for a 3-gen from the start as a strat?
No. I'm talking about how your argument is rubbish. No one mentioned 3-genning.
"we just dont have to care about our macrogame." Outcome ≠ smart play. If the patch hands out freebies for 0 movement and 0 macro, that’s not “smart,” that’s carried.
But when tunnelling does this, who cares, right?
You switch the points. now it is “L2P,” . My point stands: if MMR works, newbies face newbies. Those killers also don’t know what they’re doing—they misroute, chase the wrong targets, whiff swings. You’re not getting consistent “turbo tunneling” there. New killers are bad too. As I said above.
When new players face other new players, both sides have room to develop their skills.
Yeah, that doesn't do anything to refute that tunnelling frustrates the learning process.
More kills at higher MMR doesn’t prove it’s more killer-sided — it shows selection effects. At the top you mostly see S-tier killers and sweat strats. That’s selection, not balance.
Except historically, pretty much ALL killers do better at high MMR than middle or lower. There were a few that had minor drops or stayed the same while the rest pushed higher kill rates, which suggests that it's not a selection effect at all: Higher MMR is just more killer-sided.
and biggest thing: Kill rate is a blunt outcome metric.
Which is still better than the absolute absence of any and all evidence that has been presented to support any claims about the game being survivor-sided.
It's always anec-data being thrown up and tired, desperate shadows of arguments being regurgitated over and over again with a hell of a lot of dogmatic thinking behind it.
And again: this is largely an MMR quality issue (mismatch), not proof of side imbalance.
You have zero proof that it is.
Ye, that’s what I’m saying.
Do you have short term amnesia?
You do realise that this plays exactly to my argument, right?
Stealth was a valid, viable tool for survivors and got gutted anyway, because killers disliked it.
So why is tunnelling being a 'valid, viable tool' for killers any reason for it to not get gutted?
But 'survivors are just bad, git gud' is perfectly fine?
Yh, at this point survivors just need to git gud — the mistake is on their side. So why punish the killer for capitalizing on it?
On the point “Tunneling/Camping/Slugging are 100% enforceable by the killer”: Sure, the killer can always try that. But whether it’s worth it is decided by the team’s behavior. If survivors pull instantly in a panic, everyone heals right at the hook, and nobody is on gens, tunneling is cheap and feels unstoppable. If the survivor team, on the other hand, splits (2–3 on gens), prepares the save (two healthy, bodyblock line, path to a usable tile), and doesn’t pull through the killer’s face, tunneling becomes expensive: the killer burns time at the hook, loses map pressure, and the gens progress in the meantime.
Concrete mini-examples:
Bad for survivors: instant unhook in front of the killer’s nose, everyone stays in the hook area, zero gen progress → quick re-down, killer gets value “for free.” “Free” is it only from the survivor perspective—the killer pays for it with time at the hook, lost map control, and missed gen pressure; the survivor team only enabled this discount with weak macro.
Good for survivors: only pull when gens are ticking; two healthy players screen, the rescued one has a clear path; if necessary, a short trade → even if there’s a down, the killer is worse off, and the map works for the survivor team.
Important: the killer can apply pressure, but cannot press the unhook button. An “unsafe save” is mostly created by survivor decisions and their timing—not by magic. Here too: the mistake is clearly on the survivor side.
What does that mean for the game? These tactics don’t have to go away. If you tunnel, you give up time/map control for it. If you spread pressure, you get tangible advantages for it. Then it’s a real decision—not a default template.
Tunneling/Camping/Slugging aren’t automatically “free.” They only become strong when survivors deliver bad saves, no gen split, and poor timing. If the survivor team plays it clean, it costs the killer real time—and that’s exactly how it should be. And yes, in all these points the survivor team is playing poorly.. so why should the killer be put at a disadvantage as soon as he reacts to bad survivor playstyles?
í mean…
Time window: pickup → carry → hook → re-spot → find the same survivor again → second chase. During this time, 2–3 survivors work undisturbed on gens, rotate, or set bodyblocks.
Loss of position for survivors: Anyone who “stays at hook / or dances around the hook with the killer right after the hook” gives up map control. Gens are neglected, totems/chests get done, pressure on the survivor side is lost → the tunnel becomes lucrative and “ez” → granted by bad survivor play, so it’s not free for the killer. Given by the survivors.
Chasereset risk: The tunneled person has escape windows or (if free BT isn’t enough) team protection windows (safe unhook, bodyblock, window path, pallets). If the fast down fails, a lot of time is burned.
Conclusion: The killer can start tunneling, but they don’t “force” a good trade if the team plays macro correctly.
so y.. why, why should the killer get a disadvantage at this point?
If everyone heals under hook, tunneling is “ez.”
Split 2–3 to gens (or finish a key gen) and the tunnel gets expensive.A planned trade (two healthy, path prepped, pallets/window in reach) shifts the value: the killer might get the down, but loses too much time/position. The killer can build proxy pressure (patrol, angle, threaten a hit), but they don’t press the unhook button.
Whether the unhook is unsafe comes from survivor decisions: who goes, when the pull happens, where the tank happens, which path is prepped, and whether others are on gens or just standing around.
Good macro (survivor side):
Unhook only when two gens are already 50%+ (or done — those extra 10 seconds survivors got are strong, use them). Two healthy screen the line, the tunneled survivor runs to a prepared strong tile → even if there’s a down, gens/progress and position are already far ahead.Bad macro (tunnel becomes ez):
Instant unhook, everyone heals at hook, people left gens early, nobody on gens → quick re-down and the map stood still. After the unhook, the chase even drifts into high-prog gens (which the hook player could’ve seen — watch it), and no cover happens.No. I'm talking about how your argument is rubbish. No one mentioned 3-genning.
Fact is: the mere fact that the killer can tunnel once survivors neglect their macro forces them to play smart if they don’t want the tunnel — and that means: avoid it. And that often means → pull the chase away from relevant zones, don’t path the most optimal structures, no gen-greed between or inside key gens, don’t risk too many injuries in important zones. As long as the threat of a hard tunnel exists the moment survivors make those mistakes, it buys a lot of time for the killer → because survivors have to shape their macro plan around it. If you disadvantage tunneling per se, survivors can fully neglect their macro on this point, freely gen-greed, not care where they go down, or drag the killer into zones that are irrelevant for tunneling. That’s the logic.
Call it “rubbish” if you want — it doesn’t change the equation.
The anti-tunnel window takes pressure off the unhook: less need for setup/bodyblocks/positioning (aka less caution, “the killer can’t anyway”).
The saved team time turns straight into gen time (greed on/between key gens).
Result: more gen percent per unhook, even if the killer plays it correctly.Once anti-tunnel is active, it’s worth it for survivors to gen-greed and cut macro (setup/paths/screening) — purely by the numbers we’re talking ~½ to >1 gen progress per unhook window with 2–3 survivors pumping, no big setup needed. And if the killer still hard tunnels and someone dies early, +25% repair and no regression/blocks kick in → even more “free gen time.”
Anti-tunnel = less setup, more gen-greed, more percent per pull — and all that without the big dead-hook threat breathing down your neck. And for what? For letting the survivor side get away with worse play.But when tunnelling does this, who cares, right?
We should—because tunneling isn’t a free handout, it’s a priced choice (time/position: pickup → carry → hook → refind → second chase — and no, against strong players it isn’t “free”: it takes clean movement/pathing, tight mindgames at pallets/windows, power economy & cooldown management, pre-cutting routes and zoning to deny strong tiles, knowing when to fake vs. commit, tracking spawns/rotations, and macro - miss a read and you burn the window, lose position, or hand out distance).
It only prints value when survivors misplay macro. The PTB changes hand out post-unhook freebies (safety + info delay, even +25% repair & no regression/blocks on early deaths), so outcome comes from the patch, not smart survivor play.
Yeah, that doesn't do anything to refute that tunnelling frustrates the learning process.
Even in true newbie v. newbie, pressure is how people learn. Safe unhooks, gen split, pathing away from key tiles, timing—those are the exact skills tunnelling tests. If the patch hands out post-unhook freebies (safety + info delay, then +25% repair & no regression on early deaths), survivors can ignore that macro and still get paid. That doesn’t teach; it carries.
And,.. some frustration is part of asym PvP—no pressure, no learning curve, no real trade-offs. That’s PvP: you’re not alone; there are other humans in the lobby. If you want zero frustration, cozy single-player or co-op is the move.
It’s always going to feel frustrating when the other side wins — that’s just PvP.
Except historically, pretty much ALL killers do better at high MMR than middle or lower. There were a few that had minor drops or stayed the same while the rest pushed higher kill rates, which suggests that it's not a selection effect at all: Higher MMR is just more killer-sided.
KR = pure vibes. A 3K after 5 completed gens counts the same as a 3K at 0 gens. First one feels like “I bled for it,” second is a steamroll. KR can’t tell the difference.
Pace matters. As killer it’s about buying time: pickup → carry → hook → refind → 2nd chase. If survivors split/save clean, that’s expensive — KR doesn’t see it. KR also can’t tell if they ignored macro and still printed progress.
PTB anti-tunnel makes it even greedier: post-unhook freebies + info delay = survivors skip setup/bodyblocks and pump gens.
And if you look closer, you see it constantly: tons of 4Ks were a survivor win if they just accept the -1 instead of forcing the 4-man like it’s their birthright.Or situations like:
- One is dead hook in a dead zone, gens are done, gates ready. Best option: 3 out. Instead: hero save → bad trade → chain downs → ends 0/1 out.
- Gate 99, killer holds the choke. Just cut losses. Instead: bodyblock for style points, eat an M1, get pushed into EGC → snowball.
- “Last unhook” with no setup, everyone injured, no path → 2 freebies + hook swap. 10s greed becomes 30–60s of killer time → wipe.
- Heal party at hook instead of resetting offsite → I peek a corner, tag two → hook swap + free pressure, 0 gen percent in that window.
- Unhook in my LOS (no angle/screen) → pull through my face, double hit, rescuer injured, rescued with no path → fast re-down.
- Chase through the gen cluster instead of out into dead space → team leaves gens, I hold the cluster and get info for free.
- Tap mentality: three gens at 40–70% instead of finishing one → every kick buys me minutes, your progress evaporates.
- Perma-injured (no offsite reset) → short chases, recycled hooks, map pressure stays mine.
Lots of 4Ks are really 3-outs thrown in the midgame. Take the -1 and leave — that’s a survivor win. Forcing the 4-man from a losing state just feeds the snowball.
Which is still better than the absolute absence of any and all evidence that has been presented to support any claims about the game being survivor-sided.
It's always anec-data being thrown up and tired, desperate shadows of arguments being regurgitated over and over again with a hell of a lot of dogmatic thinking behind it.
If your only “evidence” is a blunt outcome number (KR), that’s not a rebuttal—it’s a hammer that makes everything look like a nail. Show stratified data (MMR, SWF vs. solo, maps, killer picks), or stop yelling “anecdotes!” while waving a single number.
I’ve already shared recordings from comp matches (strong survivors vs. strong killers) where the survivor side wins pretty consistently — even with tight survivor-side limits. I’ve also posted VODs from my own matches. It’s all there, free to analyze.
Meanwhile you’re waving a single number that’s shaped by a ton of pub-lobby noise and a not-so-great MMR system. KR is an aggregate outcome, not proof — it’s heavily influenced by lobby mix , resets/decay, softplay/ farming, altruism, and mis-matched MMR. If you want evidence, analyze the footage; don’t hide behind one blunt metric.
Do you have short term amnesia?
You do realise that this plays exactly to my argument, right?
Stealth was a valid, viable tool for survivors and got gutted anyway, because killers disliked it.
So why is tunnelling being a 'valid, viable tool' for killers any reason for it to not get gutted?
My experience isn’t yours. In my lobbies, stealth was mostly defended by stealth players only. Teammates usually hated it (often even outing the stealth player to the killer), and killers liked seeing a stealth gamer because it slowed the match and basically handed them an easy win. Different lobbies, different experiences—I get that, but that’s what I’ve consistently seen.
A bad tunnel that turns too expensive is a killer’s own decision; if I commit and it costs me, I just sabotaged myself. A stealth teammate, though, forces the rest of the team into a 3v1 (or 2.5v1) with zero agency to fix i
Back when old Distortion was around, you’d often see teammates outing the stealth player out of frustration (pointing, sandbagging, dragging the killer over) — which kind of proves the point: the frustration was aimed at the stealther from the survivor side, not some killer conspiracy.
A too-expensive tunnel punishes the killer who chose it. A stealth teammate punishes everyone else who didn’t choose it. Different tools, different impact on team experience.
Only my experience. but maybe in your lobbys stealth was a bigger thing. different mmr, different lobbys i guess.
As killer I’m always happy to get stealth players—if you actually run into them. It’s an easy, chill win in between the sweaty games.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002422#Comment_4002422
y the ptb already showed it:
almost every match was a 3–4 out, we only dropped two games. It clearlybroke balance— and that wasbeforewe even had time to figure out how to max-abuse the new system.Couldn't possibly be that killers had to learn and adapt, because killers never have to do that, right?
Oh, obviously? You’ve got
main + key gens, strong windows, strong structures — that’s how the map is built.So:
chase at key gens= better tiles for survivors →longer chases; butdowns between key gens=killer value.'Key gens that aren't getting done if you're going benny hill on them. Besides, the most difficult to defend gens are hardly the 'key gens'. It's the most defensible gens that matter the most, as they swing the game the hardest in the survivors' favour if they get done.
And we already saw what
anti-tunneldid on the ptb: afree passfor survivors to steamroll macro —rewarding unsmart play and handing out free wins.If it's getting them the win, how is it an unsmart play?
No game balances around day-one fresh installs.
Not what we're talking about.
You claim that survivors just have to L2P, I retorted that new players are going to have hard time learning when they're getting turbo-tunnelled out of games. You then make the claim that tunnelling somehow doesn't impact the learning curve or opportunities, and you point to perks as part of the reason why.
When I then point out that new players don't have these perks, you swap argument entirely to a matter of balance, which is not what we were discussing here.
Same deal.
You can’t balance around newbies — that’s how games die. Let
matchmakinghandle it.Same problem. You say the other three survivors need to force interaction, I point out that they can't, and that the only method that even approaches being able to do so requires a lot of skill to pull off.
You ignore the former point, and swap arguments once again for the latter.
im not saying newbies should play like high-MMR SWF. i’m saying: teach basics, match basics. let MMR put them with people at their level.
Except you ARE saying newbies should play like high-MMR SWF. When I point out that tunnelling deprives three players of any interaction with the killer and thus any opportunity to learn that gameplay, you insisted that it was up to them to force interaction. How? By utilising the kinds of tactics that define high MMR swiffers.
And while any monkey can tunnel, hook denial takes practice.
the game only feels killersided early because a lot of new survivors ignore the team objective (gens).
It amuses me that people insist that the game is just progressively less killer-sided as you go up in MMR, because the stats show the opposite. Escape rates go down, kill rates go up, as you climb MMR.
onboard them
And we were talking about the problem that tunnelling presents to onboarding, before you realised that you had no leg to stand on and swapped back to talking about balance.
No idea — I almost never saw Distortion in my lobbies. And when I did, that player had a huge anti-fan club: “Thanks for throwing the game, Distortion guy!” Classic afterchat. And honestly, I get it:
1–2 stealth/Distortion enjoyers = quick, tasty winfor the killer. Was true then, still true now.
Oh, so you mean to say that the Distortion nerf did nothing to fix the issue?
Almost like it was done because killers complained, and not because it was costing survivors their matches, huh?
It was rarely “Distortion alone,” it was the
stealth gameplanbehind it.You're just arguing my point by now! If Distortion wasn't the issue for survivors, then its nerf cannot be attributed to them. It has to be attributed to the people that complained that Distortion was blocking their aura reading.
If I don’t see anyone, I’m not playing bush simulator — I go where the
reliable infois:hook,fresh unhook,injured, maybe akey-gen zone. That’s where I get pressurebeforeI start checking random rocks/lockers.Notice how literally none of this is affected by Distortion!
That’s not “aura autopilot,” that’s
time economy. If you kill auras/tracks, youfunnelmy options — of course tunneling starts to feel like the default.Except you just listed four sources of reliable info, none of which are affected in any way by Distortion, and then you blame Distortion for tunnelling. Do you understand how disingenuous that comes across?
If you kill auras/tracks, you
funnelmy options — of course tunneling starts to feel like the default. Stealth as atool(reset/rotations/endgame) is fine. But if it’sPlan A, youforcehook pressure. Result ≠ “evil killers,” it’s just themath.This argument just translates to 'if survivors do anything to try and win, they force me to tunnel'.
And there’s still plenty of
good stealth: breakLoS, doshort stealth cutsbehind structures, littlefakes/mindgamesat tiles,walk-tech— all stuff that buysdistance and seconds. That’s stealth as a tool, not “I’m sitting inbush 17.” One takesskill & gamesense; the otherburns timeandinvitestunnel/proxy.None of this works against aura reading, first and foremost, and most of this isn't even stealth.
But also, if you sit in bush 17 and you make the killer check up on a gen that you were working on, and they spend time checking bushes 1-16 before wandering off, you buy your team an incredible amount of time without eating up any resources.
Explain to me how this is not 'the correct play'. Because if this can get removed, so can tunnelling.
Couldn't possibly be that killers had to learn and adapt, because killers never have to do that, right?
Our killers weren’t bad. Sure, some — PTB + soft MMR — but plenty knew exactly what they were doing. The whole “killers are just bad, git gud” take is lazy.
Key gens that aren't getting done if you're going benny hill on them. Besides, the most difficult to defend gens are hardly the 'key gens'. It's the most defensible gens that matter the most, as they swing the game the hardest in the survivors' favour if they get done.
You’re talking about playing for a 3-gen from the start as a strat? That doesn’t work vs a remotely efficient team. Any decent squad will break your 3-gen if you try it while all four are alive. A good team won’t even let the map state become a 3-gen. Maybe that flies in your lobbies, but not against halfway experienced players.
If it's getting them the win, how is it an unsmart play?
"we just dont have to care about our macrogame." Outcome ≠ smart play. If the patch hands out freebies for 0 movement and 0 macro, that’s not “smart,” that’s carried.
Same problem. You say the other three survivors need to force interaction, I point out that they
can't, and that the only method that even approaches being able to do so requires a lot of skill to pull off.You
ignorethe former point, and swap arguments once again for the latter.You switch the points. now it is “L2P,” . My point stands: if MMR works, newbies face newbies. Those killers also don’t know what they’re doing—they misroute, chase the wrong targets, whiff swings. You’re not getting consistent “turbo tunneling” there. New killers are bad too. As I said above.
When new players face other new players, both sides have room to develop their skills.
It amuses me that people insist that the game is just progressively less killer-sided as you go up in MMR, because the stats show the opposite. Escape rates go down, kill rates go up, as you climb MMR.
More kills at higher MMR doesn’t prove it’s more killer-sided — it shows selection effects. At the top you mostly see S-tier killers and sweat strats. That’s selection, not balance. Plus, plenty of good squads throw going for the 4-man, which inflates kill rate.
and biggest thing: Kill rate is a blunt outcome metric. If you want to talk learning/skill, look at hook states per minute, gen progress per minute, resets, and map control.
Falling escape rates can just reflect ceiling asymmetry: one very good killer scales better than a team with even one uncoordinated survivor. In high MMR, a single weak link vs a strong killer can sink the whole game. (and this happens a lot=
And again: this is largely an MMR quality issue (mismatch), not proof of side imbalance.
Oh, so you mean to say that the Distortion nerf
did nothing to fix the issue?Almost like it was done because killers complained, and not because it was costing survivors their matches, huh?
Ye, that’s what I’m saying. From my POV, Distortion was never strong; if anything it played into the killer’s hands and cost survivor teams games. Different lobbies, different experiences. You’ve got ~500 hours and <100 since 2021; I’m at ~15,000 across two accounts. Our lobbies are probably not comparable. I can only speak from what I’ve seen. (no flex, just context.) i cannot say much about distortion in new player lobbis, not part of my experience.
So ye, killer in your lobbys have maybe different problems then the killer in mine. IDK.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001716#Comment_4001716
Because
tunneling isn’t a mistakeNot anymore, is my point. On the PTB it was, but apparently it's fine if that gets axed to make the mistake free.
No heals under hook, they do off-path resets → time loss.
Time loss that is all the more painful if the killer tunnels.
Chases away from key gens into zones where tunneling is unprofitable → they’ll even take a faster down as the price for a good zone.
Unlike normal chases that… Benefit from being near key gens somehow?
From those zones, saves take longer paths → more time for the killer.
Time that the killer also loses on the longer paths.
Less gen-greed in critical areas → they won’t go down between two key gens, they “give” earlier.
Tunnelling and non-tunnelling do not interact any differently with this.
So this all, still, reads to me like obfuscation to try and keep two mutually exclusive positions in play. None of this is specifically going to punish tunnelling, as it works just as well against non-tunnelling.
Tunnelling and regular chases are not sufficiently different to make these tactics punish one over the other.
plus a ton of perks that only come online
post-unhook/while injured.Perks that new players will not have.
The other three will have less direct interaction by default; if they want more, they can
force itExcept they can't; they don't control the killer. They can attempt a bodyblock (Good luck on figuring out how that whole tactic works as a newbie), but that is not any kind of guarantee for action, as you, specifically, should be keenly aware of!
lots of squads do exactly that.
You do realise that you're arguing here that new players, in order to be able to learn the game, should play like high MMR swiffer teams, right?
My experience was the opposite:Most survivors
didn’t like the old Distortion.Hook phases are resources— if the killer plays into them, it’s a resource thateveryone gets found—
otherwise tons of key gens were lostbecause the killer only ever spotted the people sitting there,never the Distortion users. And no, it’s not a “teamplay boost.” It’s more like:“I hate tunneling… so I’ll make sure the killer only eversees the same teammatewhile I stay invisible.”No, most survivors did not care or used it themselves. The argument that it was bad for the survivor team did not surface until AFTER killers had begun complaining about Distortion's mere existence, giving the whole thing an air of 'how do you do, fellow survivor players?'.
This is compounded by the fact that the pain point of rat play did not rely on Distortion at all. Need I remind folks again: Lockers still exist.
Also also, 'while I stay invisible' actually touches on another pain point about this whole discussion that a lot of people like to skate over:
Schrödinger’s morality:rail against tunneling while defending the perks that trigger itYou're trying to pin the blame for this on Distortion, but Distortion doesn't make you invisible or untargetable. It just blocks aura reading. To blame Distortion for tunnelling is to assume that baseline, the killer is able to read everyone's aura by default, which is testament to the massive power-creep that killer intel perks have gone through. The fact that this creates auto-piloting behaviours in the killer playerbase means that these aura reading perks absolutely share the blame for this. Without aura reading, Distortion would have no impact. But without Distortion, killers can absolutely still use aura reading to tunnel!
This was always a disingenuous argument from the start, coined by frustrated killer players that just didn't want to ever have to deal with stealth.
And they got their wish, despite stealth being a valid tool in the survivors' arsenal.
So again, if stealth, a perfectly valid tool, could get ripped from the game, why can't tunnelling?
Not anymore, is my point. On the PTB it was, but apparently it's fine if that gets axed to make the mistake free.
y the ptb already showed it: almost every match was a 3–4 out, we only dropped two games. It clearly broke balance — and that was before we even had time to figure out how to max-abuse the new system.
Unlike normal chases that… Benefit from being near key gens somehow?
Oh, obviously? You’ve got main + key gens, strong windows, strong structures — that’s how the map is built.
So: chase at key gens = better tiles for survivors → longer chases; but downs between key gens = killer value.
Chase away from key gens = team value. That’s why you sometimes take the faster down as the price for the better zone (where tunneling isn’t worth it).And we already saw what anti-tunnel did on the ptb: a free pass for survivors to steamroll macro — rewarding unsmart play and handing out free wins.
Perks that new players will not have.
No game balances around day-one fresh installs. If there’s pain there, you fix it with onboarding/placement and MMR — not with global balance levers.
Balance for the long-term population; let matchmaking protect true newbies.
New killers have the same problem — no perks.
Solve that with MMR/onboarding/starter builds and faster unlocks, not global balance nerfs. Balance for the broader population; protect true newbies via matchmaking.Except they can't; they don't control the killer. They can attempt a bodyblock (Good luck on figuring out how that whole tactic works as a newbie), but that is not any kind of guarantee for action, as you, specifically, should be keenly aware of!
Same deal.
You can’t balance around newbies — that’s how games die. Let matchmaking handle it.
You do realise that you're arguing here that new players, in order to be able to learn the game, should play like high MMR swiffer teams, right?
im not saying newbies should play like high-MMR SWF. i’m saying: teach basics, match basics. let MMR put them with people at their level.
new killers scuff too — lose people, mispath tiles, don’t know how to deny fast vaults, sometimes chase themselves around a structure while the survivor’s already gone. the game only feels killersided early because a lot of new survivors ignore the team objective (gens). with working MMR, both sides learn on the same rung: survivors pick up macro, killers learn pathing/hooks, and the “it’s unfair” vibe fades.
don’t warp core balance for day-1. onboard them, let MMR do its job.
No, most survivors did not care or used it themselves. The argument that it was bad for the survivor team did not surface until AFTER killers had begun complaining about Distortion's mere existence, giving the whole thing an air of 'how do you do, fellow survivor players?'.
This is compounded by the fact that the pain point of rat play did not rely on Distortion
at all. Need I remind folks again: Lockers still exist.Also also, 'while I stay invisible' actually touches on another pain point about this whole discussion that a lot of people like to skate over:
No idea — I almost never saw Distortion in my lobbies. And when I did, that player had a huge anti-fan club: “Thanks for throwing the game, Distortion guy!” Classic afterchat. And honestly, I get it: 1–2 stealth/Distortion enjoyers = quick, tasty win for the killer. Was true then, still true now.
same when I’m on survivor and there’s a stealth enjoyer on my team — most of the time it’s a RIP match.
You're trying to pin the blame for this on Distortion, but Distortion doesn't make you invisible or untargetable. It just blocks aura reading. To blame Distortion for tunnelling is to assume that baseline, the killer is able to read everyone's aura by default, which is testament to the massive power-creep that killer intel perks have gone through. The fact that this creates auto-piloting behaviours in the killer playerbase means that these aura reading perks absolutely share the blame for this. Without aura reading, Distortion would have no impact. But without Distortion, killers can absolutely still use aura reading to tunnel!
This was always a disingenuous argument from the start, coined by frustrated killer players that just didn't want to ever have to deal with stealth.
And they got their wish, despite stealth being a valid tool in the survivors' arsenal.
So again, if stealth, a perfectly valid tool, could get ripped from the game, why can't tunnelling?
It was rarely “Distortion alone,” it was the stealth gameplan behind it. If I don’t see anyone, I’m not playing bush simulator — I go where the reliable info is: hook, fresh unhook, injured, maybe a key-gen zone. That’s where I get pressure before I start checking random rocks/lockers.
That’s not “aura autopilot,” that’s time economy. If you kill auras/tracks, you funnel my options — of course tunneling starts to feel like the default. Stealth as a tool (reset/rotations/endgame) is fine. But if it’s Plan A, you force hook pressure. Result ≠ “evil killers,” it’s just the math.
And there’s still plenty of good stealth: break LoS, do short stealth cuts behind structures, little fakes/mindgames at tiles, walk-tech — all stuff that buys distance and seconds. That’s stealth as a tool, not “I’m sitting in bush 17.” One takes skill & gamesense; the other burns time and invites tunnel/proxy.
i mean, play however you want — but for me, stealth lobbies were always the easiest wins. Even back in 2016–17. (where stealth was a bigger thing)
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002138#Comment_4002138
Posts like these are comical because you don't want a balanced or fun game; you want a game that caters to you being mediocre in your preferred role, and as long as you are loud, it doesn't matter one bit to the developers how wrong you are. The game is one-sided in the majority of games and is probably the most miserable PvP game I own. If you want to be a bully, Killer is fantastic at it in public lobbies, and there is next to nothing done to mitigate that type of gameplay from the developers. SWF can't even hold a 50% win rate at the top level of play, Ghoul is still a horrid experience after months, and we're looking at Fog Vials sucking up bloodpoints while being next to useless with Keys and Maps. I honestly laughed at the thought of you bringing up Nurse and Blight getting slap-on-the-wrist nerfs, as if these two with these nerfs aren't dominating matches left and right as if nothing happened at all.
Oh, and a 50% escape rate isn’t good for you?
Be real: watch the match. A lot of strong squads throw once it’s clearly not a 4-man. Instead of taking the 2- 3-out, they go for hero saves → trade chains. Mid/late they just won’t sack one person at that game state. It feels like a stomp, but it’s often just refusing the 2–3-out — that’s what tons of SWFs die to.
And yup: this game is still very survivor-favored vs. most of the roster — it’s just that many groups don’t actually use their tools or the map right. You don’t even need cracked movement to beat most killers; you need macro discipline (I mean, sure, you have to be a solid chaser and not a typical insta-down, but overall the team macro matters most— and y.. a bit harder but still good possible in soloq too).
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
Absolutely, there's no question. I'm not even sure how you could argue that it's not when Behavior intentionally skews Killer win rates to be higher than survivors. That's a surface level. When you go deeper, you realize that the majority of mechanics and game design absolutely cater to killers. The only notable change survivors have experienced over the years is the Borrowed Time perk becoming a base kit feature. From the map changes to the perk adjustments, it's always been in favor of killers when placed side by side. While that's not a bad thing, as survivors had an unfair advantage for the first few years, you see the inverse currently, where you can be pure dog water and the developers will cater to you and give you a win rate that any PvP game would see as unhealthy for the standard player at 60%+. The above approach is not feasible for long-term gain, as there's no real reason to play survivor unless you have a premade ready to go.
lol sure, “killers get everything.” Meanwhile survivors only got…
basekit BT + Haste on unhook, an anti-facecamp meter, the SoloQ HUD (gen/heal/chase/totem/doors + hook counters), repeated slowdown nerfs (Eruption/Brine/Overcharge/PR stacking trimmed, Deadlock toned), safer map flows, clearer aura/readability… but yup, “just BT.” 😉nobody’s saying killers don’t have a power state — it’s a 4v1.
(the killer has to be the power role — it’s 4v1. Four survivors can split tempo, stack info/resources, and cover each other’s mistakes. The killer is solo and needs the bigger lever. If one survivor were as strong as the killer, four together would be busted.
Do you want to go back to 2016, where a single survivor could run the killer for five gens? That’s just not understanding how asym games work.And when all four survivors coordinate and play solid macro, survivors are still the power role against almost every killer on the roster.)
But pretending survivors haven’t been handed QoL and safety nets for years is wild.
And it’s not like killers never get chopped down. Plenty of killer nerfs:
- Nurse add-ons trimmed;
- Blight flick/turn caps + Alch Ring/Vial/other add-on hits;
- Spirit audio clarity + MDR nerfs;
- Hillbilly overheat + add-on rework;
- Deathslinger ADS delay/reload/TR—quickscope dead;
- Twins more downtime/recall windows;
- Knight / Skull Merchant anti-3-gen & stall reworks;
and so on..
, as there's no real reason to play survivor unless you have a premade ready to go.
And that last line? ehhw, ouf? It’s always the same cycle:
“My team played bad → nerf killer.” -
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Depends a lot on time of day. In soloQ I dodge private profiles, certain skins (experience says they signal certain playstyles), and I avoid backfills—if people leave, I requeue; backfill is usually “shortest queue,” not “best MMR.” Do that and soloQ can be solid: good matches, real teamplay, folks with gamesense and cover. If you don’t filter, you’ll run into the typical casual “sable” doing typical sable things—but once you filter a bit, soloQ is actually pretty good.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001938#Comment_4001938
Lucky, I don't play with syringes either. So literally the only thing I would have to change is Soul Guard, which shouldn't make much difference. I only get Soul Guard value in 1 out of what...50 matches?
If Soul Guard only pays off 1 in 50 for you, then SG isn’t the problem.
The teams that run it do so on purpose—FTP/SG chains, secound chance after second chance stacks, sabo/flash, down in palli, palli,.. "and now try.." bodyblocks. They don’t need flashy movement; they turn perk activations into time and force lose-lose states for the killer: pick up? eat FTP; leave? they reset and gens tick.
I’m not complaining—they use their tools, same as I do. And I’d genuinely respect a non-meta loadout with zero second chances. The catch: killers can’t see your perks at spawn. Good squads slam gens first and reveal the loadout later; if I don’t have pressure by then, “later” is usually too late.
So yeah—in my lobbies you’d still see tunnel/slug when the game state calls for it. Taking a foot off the gas is expensive. But u are not my lobbies then, different reality.
I’m seeing nothing but full-meta teams. DBD’s an arms race on both sides.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001998#Comment_4001998
That doesn't make sense. Bully squads are even more unacceptable than tunneling, because they literally revolve their gameplay around ruining the fun of the other side.
Tunneling is an actual game strategy that can help killers win games, so there is an actual valid reason for killers to tunnel.
There are zero valid reasons for bully squads to exist.
I agree… but … BUT: what do you mean by “bully squads”?
Flashies? Not bully. Sabo? feels cheap/annoying sometimes, not bully. Aggro loadouts to fight the killer? Not bully. Head On? Not bully. Down-in-pallet saves? Not bully. Down in the open with a flashy on-site? Not bully. “No respect” gen push in the killer’s face? Not bully. Gen-grab → flashy save? Not bully. Clean, well-timed bodyblocks? Not bully. That’s organized survivor teamplay — same as tunneling/slugging/whatever on killer side: pressure tools, not -toxic.Bully squads exist, yes — but they’re rare.
I mean the groups that derank on purpose, fish for newbie lobbies, go full-meta just to give brand-new killers a bad time, deny the objective and play only to tilt/DC a totally overwhelmed player. They don’t care if the server timer runs out or if they die — they want to derank and grief.or… even Rarer still: the ones abusing bugs/glitches. I sometimes ran into this lobbys, not much u can do then. (but they are abusing reportable stuff - so just report those).
Most games? Full survivor loadout played efficiently… or full killer kit used efficiently (slug, proxy, tunnel) = normal gameplay, not “bully.”
The only thing that’s usually toxic is the afterchat. Funny enough, most of the time, the teams people would call “bully” are the ones typing gg wp (even when they lose). The most toxic? Often the weaker squads that didn’t fight back much and then blow up post-game.
Sure, not always; but more often than you’d think.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000901#Comment_4000901
If hard tunneling and bully SWFs are equivalent things, then why aren’t we having QoL changes to nerf bully SWFs?
Why is the demands for game changes ALWAYS about how the game should be less frustrating for survivors, but NEVER about how the game should be less frustrating for killers?
y..
Slugging, situational proxy and hard tunneling are legit tools in a 4v1 — same as bodyblocks/flash saves/sabo on the survivor side. Elimination pressure is part of the design. Survivors have their toys; on killer, I have mine.
i mean.. if you plaster every frustrating edge with QoL, you sand off the friction, interaction, and challenge that create tension and skill expression.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001871#Comment_4001871
I’ll take “accept the loss” seriously when you queue without the full survivor kit:
no second chances, no get-out-of-jail-free perks, no “oops, baby-perk activated — white-glow endurance saved me.”Deal? 😄Sure. But just so I'm clear...
- Second chances would include perks like Dead Hard, OTR, DS? Good thing I don't play with those perks, huh?
- Get-out-of-jail-free perks: I'm assuming these are exhaustion perks? Good thing I don't play with those either, huh?
- "Oops, baby-perk activated - white-glow endurance saved me": I have no idea what you're referring to here. If it's the Basekit BT you're referring to, that one is out of my control.
And then afterwards, you'll tell me that I lost because I didn't run any of those perks, right?
…or Unbreakable, sabo, “insta” heals — yada yada — all the good “I played bad → I still get away” stuff survivors can stack. By “white glow” I mean anything that gives Endurance — FTP → Soul Guard, MFT, DH, WGLF, the whole kit.
The script goes: “Oh, he misplayed, he’s down—” white flash.
“Okay, now?” He’s bad again, didn’t use camera— mid-chase insta-heal.
“Alright, now for real—” nope: down in a pallet, teammate there, FTP hits, and I’ve got Soul Guard ready.fun and fair, right? white glow at it finest : (pov a friend, little german streamer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XhG5vfV_hY -
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001716#Comment_4001716
Distortion was heavily used by rats, survivors which only hid and did this even if they werent hooked and could take chasee for surivor which is ead on hook or right after unhook went hid like ninja just for the killer to see only unhooked survivor which was tunnel (imagine this low mobility killer with no info about survivors on map and only notification he gets is someone unhooked hooked survivor so what he will logicaly he will go back to the hook and there he finds only unhooked survivor guess what will happen next). From what I seen distortion was used by same kind of players which are hinding on 3 survivors left and just wait for hatch on 2 survivors left, hiding, covering and waiting patiently for other survivors death thats it just rats in general whithout strategic teamwork potencial (only one is when killer is trying to locate them and looses too much time but that was rare as pure basement bubba guarding his chest).
Exactly. 100 true. My words. That’s why it’s wild to see someone who’s against tunneling also claim Distortion was “good design” — when it literally made it more likely the killer only ever saw the same non-Distortion teammate if he didn’t want to tunnel. That’s a pretty massive double standard.
I also saw way more complaints about old Distortion from survivors than from killers. And every killer knows where the pressure comes from when you can’t find anyone and you’re not about to play hide-and-seek forever: the hook, the freshly unhooked, and the injured.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001789#Comment_4001789
thats because survivors are not supposed to be able to run forever. survivors start the match at their strongest, the killer is weakest at the start. survivors have a full team, full set of pallets, can spread out to do more gens. as the match progresses this slowly shifts to killer being strongest at the end and survivors weak at the end after they use pallets and reduce the amount of gens that need to be done. thats the base of the game, hardly 2nd chances for killers to get kills after failing. keep giving survivors chance after chance and they will start the match strong and will not get weaker as the match progresses.
2nd chances are things that give the player another chance after failing, breaking pallets and chasing long enough for bloodlust or survivors vaulting same vault so it blocks isnt the killer failing.
1.survivors can fail to do gens and still escape via hatch.
2 they can fail to find hatch first and still escape if they have a key.
3. survivors can fail a chase and get injured then heal.
4. survivors can fail in 2 chases get hooked/downed and still get saved after failing the chases.
5. now they want another 2nd chance after failing chase by recovering themselves from being downed.
when can the killer get a kill without doing anything after failing? they dont have a team to protect gens for them or to chase for them, the killer has to do everything, survivors wont die on their own while i sit back and do nothing. but if i have a good team as survivor it is possible for me to sit back and do nothing then escape.
you say these anti tunneling perks only delay the inevitable, i dont run any anti tunnel perks or anti slug and im solo. i go in with a gen build. this month so far out of over 70 matches my escape rate is 52%. im by no means an amazing survivor but i do play a fair amount of survivor and killer and i seriously dont see the issue. the only issue i see is the god awful team mates i get. if i had a good team constantly maybe my escape rate would be higher. sorry but i have to call skill issue in many cases that people fail against a tunneling/slugging killer. it is strange that a lot of people complaining about these tactics actually have an escape rate of around 40% atleast which is the target rate for survivor. if these tactics were effecting escape rates negatively and making killers over 60% kill rate fair enough but they dont.
Co-sign this. A lot of teams don’t realize how important early time is. Off spawn you’re strong: four healthy, full items, perks @ no cooldown, every pallet, full map control. While I rotate or take a chase, your gen clock is ticking — time is the currency in DBD. “Killer comebacks” aren’t magic buttons, they’re time trades: I pay time, you make progress. If you waste early (hide & vibe, totems, goofing off), you’ll need all the safety nets later and then complain about pressure tools. At the start you have EVERYTHING, the whole map. It’s normal the killer is weak early. Don’t call that a “bad start” or a “comeback” — that’s just the nature of the game once players aren’t giving insta-downs.
The start is survivor-favoured — use it, and you’ll need fewer miracles. Tunneling/slugging are tools, not a morality play, and definitely not a one-button win. Learn the counters. And yup, runningguy is right: you already have plenty of safety nets and second chances, but it’s never, never, never enough. And “endgame perks with no counters?” … ehwm, ouuufh, big ouf — may I laugh now?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000954#Comment_4000954
at some point people have to accept the loss.
And yet you admit to tunneling because you aren't able to accept the loss. Maybe you should take your own advice.
- “Accept the loss” sounds dramatic — but “use your kit” isn’t refusing to lose. By that logic, every second-chance survivor perk is “refusing to lose,” too.
DBD rewards elimination for killers the same way it rewards resource use for survivors. Using either isn’t a character flaw; it’s a gameplan.
Yes: tunneling is a tool — just like survivors have their tools and toys.
- I’ll take “accept the loss” seriously when you queue without the full survivor kit: no second chances, no get-out-of-jail-free perks, no “oops, baby-perk activated — white-glow endurance saved me.” Deal? 😄