Ikalx
Ikalx
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- Ikalx
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Just played a few games on chaos shuffle getting tunnelled out at 5 gens. I'm guessing the killer got a 4K and tunnelled because they didn't have their catered builds and needed to do it?
The justification is always wild.
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I actually did see a skull merchant, and they slayed ^^
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030817#Comment_4030817
There is no cap on gen speed.
This is interesting. I feel like there should be, because I saw someone quoting as fact that a generator would get done in 34s, if you bring the right perks.
I've been playing this game for about 7 years now, and I don't think I've ever seen generators done that fast solo.
If high skilled players are doing gens that fast on their own, that is a huge issue that needs to be addressed, because I feel like there's a huge disparity between super fast and regular, and while that happens a lot in this game, for something as core as gens it really shouldn't.
This isn't a competitive game in the way where there are pro players who should far outstrip what the average player base is doing. It's not an esports tournament game, so disparity like this should not be taken as a given.
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There are a whole lot more aura perks now and I don't think it's all that helpful. I don't think they're going to be reduced anytime soon though.
I had a suggestion to create a type of Footprint trail aura where we could transition some of the perks into, and leave others that are more core. I feel like that would fit the theme of dbd more than the way players are just completely highlighted.
Regarding wallhacking cheaters…I don't think they're a huge problem tbh.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Is it tho?
Is it the biggest issue? I play survivor in solo q and 95% of the time and I just…cannot agree with the hysteria which is going on for the last 3 months now. What I see is survivors disconnecting for literally NO REASON like there's no tomorrow.
THAT is an issue. Especially in solo q.
People acting like every freaking trial is a Blight hard tunneling out the survivors one by one…and it just is not the case.
I am getting more and more confused by this community because it seems like I play a different game that for some weird copyright reasons is called Dead by Daylight as well.
Yes, I play far less at the moment, but the reason is that I am just overfed with 2v8 and then there is other (singleplayer) games I really enjoy at the moment.
Can I just address the disconnecting issue?
I feel like people missed a trick here, survivors weren't dc'ing much before the proposed changes were walked back the first time.
It's pretty much something they're doing now in protest.
I've had people do it against me before hooking anyone (I play about 5% killer, wesker, huntress, not crazy strong killers), and on my team on first hook.
It's not an isolated thing, it's intrinsically linked to the promise of resolutions to tunnelling.
And yes, the solutions as they were probably should not have gone forward but the whole idea should not be binned either.
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I think most of us can agree at least that it shouldn't be stackable.
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It's sad to hear about stealth, since the hide and seek aspect of the game is a major draw for both myself and friends who have moved away from the game.
Chasing is a major part of the game for sure, but I feel like stealth should be the other half of the game. But again, aura reading mostly kills that.
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It's sad that your response is "we can't do anything to change the game, we will always have to do this".
That's just sad.
Considering how much dbd has changed over the last 9 years, it's sad to see a mindset of "nothing will ever change".
Genuinely just sad about that.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969219#Comment_3969219
With most killers, forcing an early 3v1 is just the most effective thing you can do — just to get yourself even a tiny bit of breathing room. And is it always an ez win? Hell nah. Sometimes a single mistake, just one, is enough to cost you the whole match — even with the tunnel. So much for those “ez 4k with cheap strats” claims people love to throw around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56v5mBzZd7w&feature=youtu.be
And that’s even when you find the weak link right at the start of the match (that Marigold really wasn’t good — basically an insta-down snack).
“Just defend your gens.”
Sure. Great advice. With 4 people laser-focused on their objective like it’s a tournament scrim.„Try to build up Condemn.“
Yeah, I’ll get right on that — right after losing 3 gens during the first chase. Solid strategy.Just don't make a single mistake."
Yeah okay — I knew the flashy was there, but I had to go for the pickup early. If I’d waited, she would've crawled to a pallet and I'd be stuck either way. That wasn’t gonna get me anywhere either.It was a gamble — and yip, it was damn expensive.
"u don’t need your 4K, nah. "
David: "Onryo noob"But I’m still gonna play for it anyway and try everythin I could.
"yup, but.. if the killer tunnels right at 5 gens, it's always a 100% ez win with zero skill and no counterplay for the survivors."
Yup, I know I still suck at this game — even after 10,000 hours. But nobody ever tells me how to actually play better.
I just suck at this game, I guess. But every time I play Killer, I see survivors making a million mistakes right in front of me — and somehow they still expect their little 'free pass' to get away with all of them while yelling 'KILLER OP' the moment you actually capitalize on one
Survivors are allowed to make tons of mistakes and still feel entitled to their win — rescued by the crutch parade of meta perks. Killers? Nope. One single mistake and you're expected to humbly accept your loss with honor and dignity.
I'm sorry, is this to me? My point was that tunnelling shouldn't be the most effective strategy and that the killer shouldn't have to ignore it in order for the game to seem fair.
In general I think the idea that tunnelling should be encouraged is just plain wrong because I think both the devs and the community are smart enough to introduce or rework gameplay features that could be more enjoyable for both sides to play.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968882#Comment_3968882
Well then we need to find ways to make Healing engaging without it being overpowered. It's currently overtuned, and I think even the most full-throated Survivor Main will agree it's maybe a bit much right now. I mean, 50% from Resurgance, faster healing from WGLF, Botany Buffed… The problem now is there is a whole Killer playstyle just outright deleted or negated, cutting many Killers out of playing entirely because hit and run is their only strategy. This leaves gens flying, because now Survs are healed and on gens faster and longer, and so what do Killers do?
That's right. They slug. They camp. They tunnel. They play more Kaneki. All these things that Survivors absolutely despise.
Healing needs to be monitored. Gen speeds also need to be monitored. The game was genuinely fine before this, I don't understand why BHVR felt we needed to give Survivors more toys when it's been demonstrated that giving them too many toys breaks the balance of DBD because the Killer cannot be four places at once.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968921#Comment_3968921
The problem with this is it doesn't do that. At all. It just makes Killers tunnel more, and makes them go back to hooks more, because they need to get that down to pressure. We've been seeing that literally ALL Twisted Masquerade this year, half my games no joke on Survivor involve tunnelling or slugging even when I don't bring any healing items or perks. That is how bad it is for Killer right now; the majority feel they MUST play this way, why? Because gens are faster, because Survivors stay healthier, because of the Heal Meta.
Heal meta actually makes Killers tunnel EVEN MORE just to force someone out early because there's no pressure better than a Dead Survivor. That's a problem for everyone.
I'm sorry I'm just going to address some of what you said to me.
Personally, I feel like saying buffed healing causes an increase in tunnelling is just not the case. It doesn't logically line up and it's not what I've experienced in game.
From my view, if someone is unhooked and then quickly healed, it makes them a less attractive target than a more attractive one. Why would they be more attractive because they were at full health? Now if you're talking about finishing and completing chases, I'm totally with you, and if you're saying injuring playstyles have been nerfed I can totally understand that. But your example doesn't bear through, for me.
Your point about pressure does make sense, but I feel like it's an overestimation of how strong a regular healing perk is. Default heal is 16s. We'll Make It is a 100% increase and turns that heal into 8s. Botany Knowledge (50%) will turn that heal into 10.66s. Empathic Connection (35%) will turn that heal into 12s.
At a fairly realistic max, we'll say a survivor does 5 heals per game, that's a good 40s shaved off healing (at 100%) which they could contribute towards generators. That's a hefty chunk. In comparison, if they ran resilience and did 5 gens, they would shave 45s off the generator time (realistic max). Deja Vu would grant 30s off generator repair time. Prove Thyself may effectively be more.
It's an isolated calculation and doesn't take into account every factor in the game, but from a purely technical perspective at least the time removed for gens/pressure removed for killers, isn't amazingly different than bringing generator perks instead.
In my view, some killers have been tunnelling simply because it's the most effective way to get bloodpoints during the masquerade where everyone is using the 109% offerings.
There has always been no better pressure than a dead survivor. It's the most effective way to play the game unless survivors are high level. I also think that survivors starting together has been a very large change for the game that hasn't been addressed and may be contributing towards the sense of pressure loss.
tl;dr: Gen perks probably give a similar amount of value to healing perks time wise now.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968924#Comment_3968924
You're not exactly at a bad spot as a killer against strong groups. But... guess what? That's because everything exists — including the stuff you personally don’t like. Like tunneling, slugging, and all that.
And .. idk.. I don’t care about all that tunnel talk anymore. That’s why I always say: I don’t care, and just go all in. Even when there are 5 gens left, as soon as the opportunity’s there. Because in so many, like so, so, so many cases, it’s actually the survivor team’s fault for tunneling and playing dirty.
And I’m so tired of the expectation that the killer should just be blind and nice and overlook everything
That’s why I’m oftelike: Give me that tunnel or slug at 5 gens, and I’ll take it
What I would say is, the killer shouldn't have to ignore the most effective ways to win in order to have a fair - and fun - match that gives us all the gameplay we enjoy.
Tunnelling shouldn't be the go to option. It should still be there, of course, for survivors who want to mock the killers - after all it's still a horror game, but it shouldn't be the most effective use of the killer's time.
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Sure, but that's not to say that that tunnelling specifically has gotten harder. I think it's probably easier now, or maybe just more common. The game is about the chase, not the hide and seeking, and most killers will win any chase in the end - it's how they're designed.
Also I don't want to put too finer point on this, but the game is balanced to be killer sided by design (and more recent tweaks in the last couple years). So I can't imagine that a high level killer against high level survivors will be outplayed most of the time.
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Generally hexes are balanced in that if you destroy the totem, the killer loses a significant part of their power.
The only hex I really have problems with is the Third Seal, and that's because you can't see hooked survivors to unhook them.
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Healing is pretty strong right now, but I feel like it's a soft attempt to combat tunnelling etc. If people can heal quickly they should have more of a chance to escape.
That being said, the amount of games I've played where absolutely no one brings a healing perk is astonishing. It's crazy that healing is so buffed and so many survivors aren't using the perks.
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If this were to be implemented it should have a small range of 8 or 4 metres tbh.
Anything that stuns the killer should not be able to be used super effectively against them, imo.
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The most effective anti-tunnelling solution already exists in the game: Cages.
Cages teleport the hooked survivor to another place (usually far from the killer and close to other survivors) and effectively removes them from being tunnelled without quite a lot of effort.
If caging activated from two hooks in a row, it should give survivors a fair chance to contribute to the match.
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I feel like one of the things that maybe gets overlooked is also that dbd is a bit of a different game than it used to be. In previous years there was a lot more emphasis on hiding and seeking, but with the proliferation of detection tools for killers (auras, I'm looking at you), that's taken much more of a back seat. Not to mention on-hit sprint bursts were nerfed a couple years ago, amongst other things.
Is it dumb when someone can idle across a map and never be found? Absolutely, and I'm glad that's no longer a thing. But it's also kind of disingenuous to be defending tunnelling when eluding the killer is substantially more difficult now.
But tbh, in reality these things shouldn't be on the killer to moderate, it should be adjusted (and incentivised) so that it is facilitated by normal play.
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Someone said it above, but I strongly agree that the game should be balanced around hooks instead of kills.
There are actually a number of ways to do this, a lot of it having to do with presentation within the game (perhaps entity visual changes for # hooks), in the menus (emphasis on hooks rather than kills), and in the lore (hooks feeding the terror the entity craves etc) as well as simple buffs based on the number of hooks that could be introduced.
Regarding the other side of how hopeless it can be as a survivor though, I think there actually already exist systems to combat this.
The first is just a general idea that camping and tunnelling can be significantly mitigated by using the cage system that pyramid head and the 2vs8 system uses. It's not ideal, because there are a lot of cool things about hooks, but it does work.
The second idea is from Invocation: Weaving Spiders.
This perk could simply be put in to the base game becoming available when the first player is killed. On successive kills, a random area could be designated as another circle, with each circle giving a further charge reduction to generators.
Whether it puts a character into a permanent broken state or not, or how many charges it grants/time it takes to do is up for debate, but I honestly think it would be a pretty balanced way to offset the penalty of losing a player, and offer a lifeline to the remaining players.
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Not gonna lie, I feel like this is where you start to see the mindset of some people when they play killer. Where their idea of playing the game is to actually play it as little as possible, and the only thing they want is for the number of players to go down. Honestly these people feel like the kind who would rather the game start with everybody on hook lmao.
Also you can see the lie where some people playing the killer have a victim mindset because they're alone versus a team. If the same behaviour comes up when they play with a teammate what is the reason? Or is it just habit?
To be fair, though, it's still the majority of killers who would rather play and catch you with skill, and tbh I live for a well placed axe from across the map - whether I'm the one throwing on getting hit 😁
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773418#Comment_3773418
A game shouldn’t end automatically because four survivors are slugged. Killers should be punished in some way for this as it circumvents normal gameplay.
Isn't this just a killer win? Honestly I'd rather have the game end immediately so I can queue for another.
Unbreakable is just too powerful to be basekit. In the 2vs8 mode you get self-care on your last hook and that would be way less disruptive to normal play in comparison (not that I'm suggesting that).
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Not gonna lie, I feel like the proliferation of aura reading abilities has really diminished the whole hide-and-seek aspect of the game, and I honestly think it needs a rework.
Hopefully with the fixes to scratch marks people will start relying on it less, because with all the different ways your aura can be read, it feels near impossible sometimes to know how or when you'll be revealed.
Which is pretty much why people run distortion. Nobody needs it for bbq and chilli or bitter murmur or nurse's calling really, it's just that as people have mentioned, there are so many sources of aura reading that the game is often over before you know how you should be countering.
I mean if there was a perk that simply reduced aura reading to a 2 second duration (from the usual 5), people would run that, wouldn't they? Because it just enables counterplay.
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Filters aside, this is more of a bugfix/consistency pass than a buff. It was always intended to be this way, as far as I can tell.
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I'm really confused.
It's an asymmetric game.
The kill rate isn't balanced to 50%.
This one dude is carrying the thread to get more posts.
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Someone said it above but I think a bigger problem for me is it really does feel like the survivor role has lost agency.
Kill counts don't bother me because even before the changes I would rarely survive. That's an issue with how I play and I never feel like returning for a survivor in the end game and dying is the fault of the killer. It's a choice I make and I rarely regret it. Likewise I don't feel like surviving is the main part of why I play, it's the gameplay and how close it was. A good game has a lot of hooks and a lot of gens done, and a great game usually comes down to the wire, whether you survive or die (to me anyway).
The issue though, is that a number of other things were changed where it starts to feel like quite often you can't do much to combat the killer. With the proliferation of detectable features in the game like auras, killer instinct, and screams, you're much less able to hide and with the small but noticeable nerf to on-hit sprint it's a lot less easy to escape chases by default. The game feels much less hide-and-seek orientated while also being more difficult (at a moderate level) to escape chases.
Combined with the unceasing trend of killers to camp and tunnel, these things really start to undermine the game. And while I would rather mechanics be introduced to combat or confirm camping and tunnelling, it seems like this is an issue that can barely be helped. So the things I have to point at are the changed gameplay aspects instead.
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Not gonna lie, I feel like if the game is based around Killers not using their strongest perks, while Survivors almost always using their strongest perks, there's an issue.
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Claudette. Even with the nerfs none of her perks are less than good, especially when used together.
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They teabag to increase the toxicity of the game so that more killers tunnel.
That is, if they're not healing, waiting to try for a save, or something like that.
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Not quite related to the op, but as an alternative, does anyone have luck with Pharmacy? Is it good to run or pretty situational?
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Ya know, for all the people that rag on self-caring, I've seen enough teams all go down due to not healing that I feel like most of them are just being doofuses. Sure, these days I definitely wouldn't recommend bringing it without botany knowledge, and that perk now lifts its weight in team heals, but still, imo, a healed player is better than a wounded one.
Now self-caring in the corner to the exclusion of all else? Fair enough. But that's not really self-care's fault, to my mind, it's the player. Especially since you're going to heal substantially faster if you just let someone else patch you up.
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Well it's about balancing but also limiting. You can balance for the average player while also limiting the top level. This is sometimes easier, sometimes harder, because top level players will exploit things average players will never think of, so you can just nerf or limit those, while other things are intrinsic to the play style and can't easily be changed.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132769#Comment_3132769
Welcome to every video game ever with a death mechanic. When you die, you die. That's what dying is. There may be weird exceptions like Among Us, but for 99% of games, dying means you are done. Yes. That is.... pretty standard. So yeah, sitting there complaining that a killer killing you in a game where the killer's killer role is killing you.... that's a weird take.
I mean, that's my point? That killers asserting that doing a generator and tunnelling a survivor, are the same thing.
I'm pointing out the logical inconsistency to compare the two like for like. It's bizarre to say that.
It's even more bizarre that killers act really put upon and aggrieved when survivors escape or do more generators, since their gameplay doesn't end. Instead of each hook or kill being a victory it's a culture of anything less than four kills is a loss (for a lot of people on these forums, not in the game generally, I think).
I dunno, maybe the game's just built in a way to promote that mindset, since it's the horror genre.
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I try to lead the killer away, but honestly sometimes you just lead them to other survivors. I don't ever when I'm running bond, but...that's a perk that I only get medium use out of - nice to have, not essential.
Would be kinda cool if you could get an aura within 8 metres or something, basekit, but...that's a pretty low priority thing.
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"The killer's goal is to eliminate survivors."
I agree. Though I don't understand why that makes tunnelling the most effective use of their time. In fact it's actually not against highly skilled teams, because those teams will do gens.
That's why I say it's unsportsmanlike. It's disingenuous to complain about coordinated survivors being powerful while using a strategy that relies upon the survivors being uncoordinated.
Of course, if each hook state took 90s or longer, camping and tunnelling would immediately cease to be effective in all forms, and since no one complains about hook state times being too long (yet, anyway, jury's out on reassurance), I doubt anyone should complain at this simple form of balancing.
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I dunno, I think camping is the lowest of the low. Tunnelling is unfortunately an effective strategy, so it has that going for it.
At the end of the day, gamers are the worst people to give an effective strategy to and not expect them to use it, at least sometimes. I mean...games are there to be fun, but they're also competitive (at least the multiplayer variety), and part of the point is to try to use the most effective strategy and skill to win.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131135#Comment_3131135
It's not different. "Points" has nothing to do with it.
Doing a generator until it is done is a Survivor game objective.
Targeting a Survivor until it is dead is a Killer game objective.
Killers are expected to stop and spread it around to other Survivors but Survivors are never expected to stop and spread it around to other generators. This is a double standard, and a very blatant and obvious one at that.
I don't really understand this. A killer chases a survivor off a gen, and survivors move to other gens. They don't go back to the same gen - at least not immediately anyway. This is why the game gets more difficult when there are fewer gens.
I don't really understand how people can both think and post this illogical stuff. "Rushing" generators and tunnelling are not the same. Generators and Hooking are closer to being like for like.
Tunnelling is unsportsmanlike. Everybody knows it is. It's cheap, it's simple, and unless the survivors are organised and coordinate well, it's very effective. Again, the evidence in this is how killers will do it when they want to punish a survivor - understandably for things like t-bagging or baiting the killer. It's the most effective way of taking away someone's enjoyment.
There are actually a bunch of ways to mitigate tunnelling though. Some, like Pyramid Head's Cage already exist in the game. Sure, there's no hook interplay there, but it is rather effective at reducing a tunnel.
Others could be wildly different. Like if we suppose we wanted to say tunnelling survivors and gens was the same, we could simply have a hook counter of 12, where any combination of persons can be hooked up to 12 times, but on that twelfth hook, game over.
Or, another route is when one player dies, the game ends. That would be another "actual" like for like with doing generators and tunnelling.
Because, for some reason, some killers don't really seem to get that killers don't get killed in the game. It's wild but true. When a survivor dies, the game actually ends for them. They don't ghostly do all the extra tasks on the ship to catch the murderer and watch things play out, they're done interacting. It's over. End of the game.
I'm not sure why I have to say that, but some people still don't really get it. The survivor finishes playing the game when they're out. The killer does not. This is why tunnelling (and camping) is an issue.
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@Audiophile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132692#Comment_3132692
I disagree with the take here and this is just my reasoning - playing as solo survivor for many hours per day, the games are very unbalanced. It’s not the killers fault, it’s matchmaking. Off peak hours the teams are almost always a mix of new and experienced survivors. So most games I enter into with a weak team making terrible plays and/or just quitting early and so get many, many bad games and losses. On top of the bad matchmaking, add in a large percentage of hard camping and tunnelling killers or nurse/blight, there is a very large amount of awful games. So honestly, yeah, it is asking for some mercy when you walk up to a killer after hours of being ######### on. That goes back to the original question… it’s like solo survivors get ######### on so hard… but they keep at it… and then sometimes in those clear situations where you think maybe the killer will just let me have a non-miserable experience and feel sort of good about the game and the people playing it instead of just hating it… they just kill me and I was just wondering… ffs why? Lol. Anyhow, I appreciate the insight and hope that I am giving at least some insight into the survivor experience as well.
I mainly play survivor, and my survival rates are probably around 20-25% or so. Mostly because I'm pretty altruistic in the game, but often because...well it's kinda hard sometimes if you're not higher skilled.
Matchmaking does kind of suck, and people were dc'ing and dying on first hook a lot and that made things kind of pathetic. People were also camping more, sometimes on moral grounds, which I didn't understand really.
Is it fully balanced? Not at all, and some things need rebalancing, for sure. But at the end of the day, I do feel like people play this game a lot more than they should. If you have hours of being #hashed# upon, then maybe play something for a bit where it's not like that.
I probably haven't said this before, but, I don't believe, outside of a few cases, that this game improves mental states. Much the opposite to be honest. The very small amount of positivity on these forums can maybe attest to that.
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Some things are questionable, to be sure, but for the most part for me I found a lot of survivors were dc'ing and giving up pretty quickly and were reluctant to actually play, despite...things not really being all that more difficult, as far as I can tell.
I feel like a lot of people don't want to try new perks and just keep trying to do the same thing, but...that's not going to work all that well. Things have changed. Some hopefully will see better balancing but to be honest, some should probably stay as they are.
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@dugman said:
I figure if I kill them their MMR goes down and they'll have an easier time next time. Also personally I hate when people give me "pity wins" so I don't give them to other people either, I treat people the way I would want myself treated.
This, so much this. I don't understand why people always talk about giving away the last hatch or being "merciful".
I personally hate this idea of survivors going hat-in-hand up to the killer and begging them not to kill them, just as much as I dislike the idea of killers being "benevolent".
There are times when people can cooperate in this game (like if it's basically over and the killer is leading you around so you can both get more bloodpoints etc) but I personally don't want to be any killer's pet*. If someone really wanted to be merciful they wouldn't close the hatch or they'd walk off into the wilderness somewhere while you make a 'daring' escape. If someone really wants to be generous in the game, they won't just hand something on a platter to you, they'll do it in a way that you'll never know.
(*except huntress. She could pet my head any day. Or just sing to me, I'm not picky 🤣)
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Honestly, if people are that hurt about the boon totems, something that's in the game to actually try to flesh out a secondary objective, that at least a bunch of killers always said survivors should be doing instead of just working on generators, then sure, get rid of the boons, give us back the self-care that the majority use, lament that there's no interplay of survivors doing anything but "rushing gens", and...profit, I guess?
They shook up the totem placement a few versions ago and it's still not super easy to find them, so much so that on some maps I had boon perks become completely useless, while I wasted at least a gen's worth of time searching for, probably two.
The issue with boons, if there is one, is when more than one or two people have them - depending on the map. Obviously it's very difficult for killers to get traction if there are a lot of 'defence zones' helping survivors but...I guess the answer to that is...do bones?
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Boons were an attempt to flesh out a secondary objective in the game, and they're still relatively in their infancy. It's my thinking that they're there to move more traditionally strong perks into gameplay so that players have to work a bit more to get those benefits, as well as add some interesting affects to the game.
If they're destroyed as basekit, people will bring them much less often, because not only would they take effort to do, but the killers would be alerted to where they were, just stomp five times and all the chances for boons are gone. That's quite a lot of time wasted on the survivor's part.
I know things sometimes look like they don't take any effort to do when you're not playing that side, but that's very often not the case.
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@Mandy said:
Would just add in here, you do get an extra something for owning the DLC as opposed to the individual characters. In the RE Chapter, this was an Umbrella Coorporation charm.
Oof. I get that it's just a charm and not an outfit because it's a licensed franchise and all, but oof.
Not really the place for this, but I used to buy the DLC from the store (on sale because I'm skint xD) but these days I'm kind of struggling with whether that's worth it, since the addition cosmetic or extra rarely seems worthwhile.
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It seems a little like an anti-steamroll perk to me. It looks like it has a good range but that formula seems kinda dippy - if it's using the #2 method surely it should go up to 50% not 33%?
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I hate to say this, but it's literally an asymmetric horror game where the survivors are supposed to be scared of getting caught and killed. Whatever made you think it was supposed to be fair?
If the killer win rate is anywhere between 50-75%, they're doing fine, balancing wise.
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The amusing part of the opening post was:
It isn't healthy for a player's skill to be invalidated by "good timing" on a survivor's part.You literally just said player skill shouldn't be countered by player skill.
I was never a big user of DH and I have to say, since the rework, I definitely find it something that requires some skill. The few times I've used it, I've just ended up on my face, on the floor. 0.5s is not a lengthy window.
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I don't...really understand what's going on in this thread.
Why do hooks break permanently on sacrifice? To make things harder for the killer.
Why do downed survivors move to a place where there are no hooks? To give them a chance to wiggle out when you pick them up.
The only real question here is why aren't you picking them up? Because you're guaranteed a kill (at least if other survivors can't get to them) through bleed out. Which actually is a discussion for whether people shouldn't bleed out but recover, lol.
This mechanic is literally there to give survivors chances, and it's worked. It doesn't often come into play, but in those rare times it does, it's made a difference. If it's coming into play in your games often, pick up the survivor and see what happens. You never know, you might get another three minutes of actual gameplay.
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To be honest, I feel like if someone flashlighted you three times in succession, then they kinda earned it. That shouldn't really be a regular occurrence and tbh I struggle getting the first lol.
I will say though, if someone baits a killer, I fully expect the killer to tunnel, camp, and enjoy removing that player from the game. I feel like they deserve it.
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Does Self Care no longer pair with Botany Knowledge's buff, or am I missing something? I've been running both and it's been just fine. Or circle of healing, but, y'know.
I don't know why Iron Will can't be used while exhausted. It got a sound nerf, that should be enough, surely? Especially since you'd want to use it exactly after you've been exhausted, I'd think.
DS idk, but you could always try something in between, say 4s. I don't know why people are complaining about DH though, tbh (maybe the duration from 0.5 to 1s?). But maybe it should just be removed and people get auto assigned autodidact instead. I'm sure that would be an equivalent exchange.
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@Neyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3120079#Comment_3120079
True, healing is always an option, but Thana encourages survivors to prioritize healing. There are some times where it's better to stay injured, and perks that only work while you're injured (Resilience and DH). Even the psychological idea of seeing a "red slow" gen bar will cause some people to spend 16 seconds healing themselves to save maybe 10 seconds added by that Thana stack on a generator.
The 25% slower isn't an actual "slowdown," but an effect of tunneling. If one survivor dies, then the survivor team only has 3 players to progress the game instead of 4.
Put another way, let's say you have three injured survivors and one is tunneled out immediately. With the 6.1.0 Thana,
I think the end of your post was cut off, but thanks for explaining the 25%. I do agree one person being quickly killed is quite a crippling blow to a team, probably over and above the 25% idea, simply because you can't be in four different places at once, so the killer has less to track making it much more dangerous. Though I guess that's a discussion for another place.
I will say, I usually heal almost immediately and heal anyone in my vicinity, if I can, and...tbh the red slow bar shows up so dang often in game, I'm kind of inured to it now. It doesn't even show a yellow bar any more while two people are on it, which I can't say I like very much.
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To be fair, the idea of increasing the hook timer is a pretty good one, it's simple and doesn't have the mess of survivor interference, where survivors might be running the killer near the hook and the killer being penalised as a result. Making it as long as a gen would be pretty funny, too, since now you're kinda at a disadvantage time-wise if the killer camps.
Tunnelling needs something else, not really sure what that is though.
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@Neyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109873#Comment_3109873
Two things to keep in mind about the new version of Thana. The gen speed isn't the only slowdown the perk is based around, but also healing time. Taking one person off a gen for 16 seconds to heal is time that gen doesn't progress at all. And that assumes there's already a boon/medkit at hand. Booning or finding a second survivor or med kit takes even more time on top of that.
Second is that the current Thana introduces a game design choice that encourages the killer not to tunnel one player out as fast as possible. As soon as someone dies, you lose out on the maximum strength of the perk. I think this is a healthy design decision for the game.
Alternately, having the penalty be linear, like 5.5% per or in your example a flat number of seconds, is far less noticeable between 3 and 4 survivors remaining. But literally everything in the game is 25% slower once one person is dead. So tunneling one survivor an out and then keeping the remaining three injured alone takes one perk slot for effectively 40% slowdown.
The new version is much healthier overall. Thana only works of it's a niche perk. If everyone runs (the old version of) it, then they effectively made gens take 115 seconds base kit, which is what we saw for two weeks. At that point, either Thana gets nerfed, or base gen speeds get reduced. Even for killers, this is the better option.
I didn't quite understand everything in your post. The second point is something really good to know, and I hadn't thought about that, so thanks. The first though...I don't really understand, healing happens at anytime, no? It's not something that comes with thana, and thana actually doesn't affect those speeds either, so...it feels like a constant for most situations, I would expect anyway.
Also I don't really understand the numbers between it being 25% slower? 90+9.45s isn't 25%. I also don't understand the 40% either.
I am completely not arguing for 115s (base kit? you mean after four worked for hits, no?), but current is 108s for 4, and 95.4s for 3. In comparison the 3.5% is 102.6s for 4, 99.45s for 3, etc.