mischiefmanaged
mischiefmanaged
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I kind of think the Haste is probably the more significant and healthier part of the change. They seem to be comfortable with increasing the Endurance effect, but I'd honestly be fine if they did something like 5 seconds of Endurance so you get 5 seconds to get to a tile (so no direct off hook hits) and did 20/30 seconds of the Haste effect. A long Haste effect takes some skill to utilize, can't be used for body blocking, and really effectively discourages tunneling.
I just hope that they don't require the Haste and Endurance to be tied to each other. So if they say, "Endurance of 10 seconds is too long especially with BT," I'd like to see them consider making the Endurance shorter and the Haste longer.
@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151375#Comment_3151375
BT is largely better then Guardian hence why Guardian doesn't get used. With the upcoming patch this will actually change since the basekit buff is honestly enough on it's own for most situation that BT won't be the objectively better option.
Not to mention it was stealth buffed at one point (AFAIK it was never stated in a patch notes). For a while it used to show you the killer aura and the killer your aura when you unhook someone. It now only shows the killer aura to you.
It would be nice if they made the aura reading work for the unhooked survivor too. The buff was also definitely in patch notes because I remember the change. I think it happened at the same time that the perk became a common perk so it may have been difficult to find.
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I think MMR is better as hidden as the intention is really just to aid the matchmaker in creating fun matches. This is also why the matchmaker got changed to include more variation so you'd get a mix of competitive matches and matches where you were just better than your opponent and could get a more chill win. It's really not supposed to be used as a kind of competitive ladder and the game would be worse if it was revealed. I can't think of any reason for it other than mild curiosity or obsession over a number. Mild curiosity is cool and I'd like to know mine, but I know others would obsess over the irrelevant number and go into every match with "number must go up or I have panic attack." It's just not healthy.
On the other hand, I'd also like MMR to be revealed just so that I can stop hearing how everyone on the forum is at the absolute top of MMR, they are above the MMR softcap, and how MMR doesn't work because most people are at high MMR or the MMR softcap despite this being statistically impossible. We not only have confirmation from the developers this isn't the case, we know the exact algorithm they used and it's mathematically impossible for that algorithm to produce the results people on this forum claim it does.
If you are playing against killers or survivors who are better than you, the game will always feel like you must be at the highest MMR. If you are matched against people worse than you, it will always feel like you're beating on babies. That's just how skill in things works. And, sometimes, the RNG of the game will determine more of the match than anything else. You might play against the same survivors on Midwich with Nurse or you might play against them on Garden of Joy as, well, anyone.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't think we've forgotten about it. It's just hard to maximize value in solo queue because we can't tell someone has it until it activates. I think there's a bit of a disconnect between the designed intended use case and the way players want to utilize the perk/should utilize the perk.
You're really only getting a huge value out of it if you know someone has it, know the killer is camping, and do a quick drive by to proc it.
This part is really the problem with Kinship.
With Reassurance, you can make a plan and use it effectively. I can say, "Well I'm going to greed gens a little longer because I can use Reassurance if the killer goes back to the hook to force second stage." Or you can say, "Well the killer is camping so I'll finish this gen, proc my Reassurance, and then go somewhere else to finish generators."
With Kinship, the person who activates it is not the person who knows it's there. You can't create a plan in advance unless you can talk to the person which is only possible if you're playing with friends. You can tell your teammate, "Go over and heal and then come for the save. You'll have time. I have Kinship." Your solo queue teammates won't know that until they see Kinship on their screens and it assumes they even know what the symbol means since they probably haven't seen it before.
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I had originally read instance and state as synonyms as they typically are, especially in programming contexts. And some parts of the game, such as the hook counters for both survivor and killer, seem to imply that these are the same thing.
The actions in the game that are for a distinct hook usually use the active tense like "after hooking a survivor" or "hook 15 survivors" and don't use the word instance.
We could really use some clarification on this. It should absolutely be hook states if there is a difference. The perk shouldn't be weaker when the perk is used and the killer still camps.
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Every single post this person has made has been a troll post. Just ignore.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147742#Comment_3147742
Do you really think Reassurance got buffed?
I mean he/she's obviously a troll.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147571#Comment_3147571
The thing is, if only I am running it (which I have to assume since there is no way knowing the Perks of the other Survivors unless you are in an SWF), it would be more beneficial to stick to the Gen I am working on instead of going next to the Hook and use the Perk to prolong the Hook State.
The time I am not on a Gen to activate the Perk will be more hurtful to the Team than it can be beneficial to prolong the Hook Stage of the camped Survivor.
If you are literally across the map then yes that may be the case. Was also probably the case with Reassurance on the PTB.
If you are anywhere within the vicinity of the hook, giving your teammates 30 extra seconds to either do generators or coordinate a save is huge. This also assumes nobody on your team is using Reassurance. You may just find that you work on a generator from across the map, one of your teammates uses Reassurance, then you finish your generator and you run across the map to use yours to give them extra time.
If that doesn't happen, then you know your teammates don't have it. You also didn't know if your teammates ran BT until after you were unhooked. BHVR should make a way that you can know your teammates perks in solo queue, but it's not like that mechanic didn't exist before. You also don't know if your teammate has Deliverance or Unbreakable and those two are still ridiculously strong perks.
Yes if you run across the map immediately once a survivor gets hooked just so you can get Reassurance value, you'll probably be using the perk wrong.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147338#Comment_3147338
Is 30 seconds actually that valuable? Really? Say im the one who has it. If it takes 20 seconds to get to them to activate it. How much did that save me? Especially if its like a bubba or something where im basically running to my death. (Being within 6 meters)
You can generally activate it through walls and between floors and, even if it takes you 20 seconds to activate it, it gives an extra 30 seconds to your other teammates of which there are 2.
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I would have preferred they change it in a different way but this will still be one of the strongest perks in the game for both SWF and solos. The people saying otherwise are really just overreacting.
@ad19970 said:
You are right, the perk will still be good. People calling this perk useless is just classic overreaction to a nerf that feels unnecessary.
And that is the problem I have. The perk will still be strong, but the nerf was completely unnecessary. It should be even stronger, simple as that.
Yea mostly this exactly. They could have had the 10 second cooldown be on the hooked survivor instead of the perk and that would have worked to avoid the hostage situation.
But honestly an extra 60 seconds from just one person's perk is just very strong.
@Aven_Fallen said:
1) One is wrong math, until I understand you wrong. The increase is not nearly doubled, the increase is much lower. A single Survivor can use Reassurance up to 6 times, adding 3 Hook States. So instead of 6 Hook States there will be 9.
2) Does not matter, as I wrote in the other Thread, in Endgame those are mostly Hook Trades unless the Survivors play perfectly. And even then it needs to be somewhat close to the gate.
3) If I am the only one having Reassurance, there is no point for me to leave my Gen to run to the camped person. Especially if I see with Kindred that the rest of the team is also doing nothing.
The Perk can be useful in a 4 man-SWF, for Solos it is not a good Perk anymore.
I mean the situation you describe in 3 means the match was already lost and no perk would make you win the match. You being the only one to do a generator with two AFK people and one on the hook is pretty much the definition of losing. From my experience with BT before it was basekit, one of those teammates will probably have Reassurance which is why they were hanging around the hook to begin with. If you're running Kindred and you see them run over and then leave to work on a generator, just chill on your generator for 30 seconds, which will probably cause you to finish your generator, and then head over to use your own Reassurance.
You can also run Reassurance with Unbreakable. Run to the hook at the literal last second. Activate it. Then they either pick you up because they see you used Reassurance and a teammate gets the save or you Unbreakable and get the save or run away. Or you just crawl away from the hook and Unbreakable.
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This will still be one of the best perks in the game and probably run at higher numbers than BT. And I cannot meaningfully see a reason why this would be different between SWF and solo queue. It'll be slightly more efficient in SWF because you can tell your buddy, "Hey go activate your Reassurance first and I'll activate mine second," while in solo queue you both might head to the hook at the same time, but that's always been the case. After you see the other person has activated their Reassurance, they will go do a generator and you'll know, "Ok I'll be back in 30 seconds to activate mine." They won't try to activate theirs again during that hook stage.
I wish it had gone to live the way it was and it could be activated multiple times per hook stage. That was probably an unrealistic expectation. This perk will still be one of the best perks in the game.
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@YourWifeSamantha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145903#Comment_3145903
i actually said this during my comments, in my replies. I am not a new player. i have 4k hours in it. And i've been camped in all ways and i've seen facecamping in all forms. Is not my problem you conclude i only talk about camping in 1 example. But ok. your right to your opinion.
Have you? You've said, "I've been facecamped in other situations," but you haven't described a specific situation. The only situation you've described is one with 2 players where you're on the hook and the game is effectively over.
Based off of actual words you've used and actual situations you've described, what else am I supposed to conclude? You've only given 1 example! Give another example! Propose a solution! Be creative! Completely reimagine the game if you want to! Give a reason why the game should be different in this situation and how you would change incentives so the killer wants to go chase the other person because it's fun for them rather than just, "I'll wander aimlessly for 30 seconds, let them save, then go back quickly and hope they don't stealth for the next 10 minutes. Also, doing this will possibly cost me the game and there's really no incentive because if the last player chooses to do a generator they tell me where they are anyway and if they don't we're both going to go search for hatch anyway. I hope this person gets the hint and just realizes they should let go of the hook so all of us can play another game since this one is over."
But what is the actual discussion of this topic? From my perspective, it seems like you had a frustrating match. You created some random rule in your head that the killer had to follow. The killer decided that wasn't fun for them to do and they had already had a fulfilling match and were already in a position where they would win the game. Then you decided to come to the forum and post another topic about facecamping completely devoid of content or context.
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@YourWifeSamantha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145874#Comment_3145874
that was my last game. but i play for hours daily. i gave my last game as an example because i asked the killer why he chose to camp me .
I mean it kind of seems like you should have started with a different example then. It's just undermined your entire point by complaining about the most reasonable time to camp in the game.
I'm not going to just respond to a post about facecamping with my own thoughts completely divorced from the topic. How would we possibly have a discussion if everyone is just venting about the last time they were facecamped? Each person may have a different definition of what they consider facecamping. Obviously, you consider this situation to be an example of facecamping. To me, it's a killer who just won the game and is now just trying to secure the 3rd kill before going to close hatch and patrol gates.
When most people complain about facecamping, they're complaining about facecamping the first person who was hooked which means that there was exactly one chase and everyone else just has to stick to generators. You are not describing that.
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@YourWifeSamantha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145846#Comment_3145846
I don't " complain" for a camp when there's 2 of us left. I explained previously in my quote to NomiNomad..it gets boring man. Boring. i can't have that every single game. like How about a bit of chase? imagine chasing survivors right? my bad.
The specific situation that you are complaining about "facecamping" is when a killer had killed two other survivors and there were only two left. It kind of sounds like you're complaining about camping when there's 2 people left.
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Wait are you complaining about a killer camping your hook when there are only 2 survivors and you've already effectively lost the game?
I don't camp the hook even in these situations and every time I roll my eyes and go, "Oh god why do I have to be nice and stay in this match another 5 minutes." Just let go of the hook and let your teammate get hatch.
Camping is definitely a problem but this is one time when I'm like, "I agree with you killer player. Let's get outta here. Thanks for all the chases."
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Probably? Surprised they are releasing a viable killer. It is really out of character for them. No way he does not get nerfed. And based on their response here, we can easily discern a nerf will indeed be happening. Mystery solved.
The last 4 killers have been Artist, Pinhead, Sadako, and Dredge. Pinhead and Dredge are pretty solid B tier and Artist is one of the best killers in the game. Sadako needs work but stealth killers always have this problem.
Before that, there was Blight, Twins, Trickster, and Nemesis. Blight is one of the best killers in the game (second only to Nurse). Twins is either A tier or high B tier. Trickster is a bit on the weaker side but still decent. Nemesis is solid B tier too.
In what world have they not been releasing viable killers? A far majority of the killers they've released in the last 2 years have been incredibly strong.
Maybe you and I have different definitions of the word viable? My definition of viable is, "Can play and reasonably get kills while having fun with the killer-specific mechanics." Is yours just, "The survivors have a literal 0% chance of surviving against this killer after I've practiced with the power for 2 games."
The main times that there have been buffs or nerfs in the PTB are most commonly for unintended mechanics.
- Pinhead: They wanted people to grab the cube and solve it as the survivor counterplay. They did not like that one person could grab the cube and then hide on the other side of the map doing a generator and cause the cube to basically not exist. So they modified it so the cube would harass the person holding it. Doing this even created an unintended problem where now it's sometimes difficult for the cube holder to solve the box because the original design didn't have that. But notice that this change wasn't to "buff Pinhead". It was specifically to incentivize survivors to do the intended mechanic of solving the box.
- Artist: Increased the range where birds could not be next to the hook and made it so running into stationary birds didn't damage. It was not intended for the birds to be so effective at camping (which they still are) and the Artist on PTB could basically just drop two birds at any loop and shut it down by just running around. While most of this mechanic is still there, at least the Artist has to choose to fire the birds at some point to get the hit rather than have it passively. Was a nerf, but was mostly because the birds were intended to have counterplay and interaction that didn't meaningfully exist on the PTB.
- Sadako: Buffs because she was weak. Probably the exception to what I mentioned.
- Dredge: Mostly not changed. He had bugs in the PTB which were fixed for live, but he was mostly the same. Had a minor neutral change in a bugfix patch that lowered the range you could see him and increased the range you could see your teammates. Probably because not being able to see your teammates at all was an unintended mechanic that they found after it was live.
- Twins: Holding Victor hostage to prevent Twins from having a power was unintended. Added a way to recall Victor. Similar to Pinhead.
- Nemesis: I don't remember there being any meaningful changes between PTB and live? He got a minor buff later on to make tier 3 more impactful and a later nerf to Marvin's Blood. They possibly didn't like that you could get to tier 2 from just one chase and didn't like that it was his most used addon.
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I like flashlights both on the killer and survivor side. As killer, survivors who use flashlights are also usually going for riskier/more altruistic plays which is fun. And most times that someone gets a flashlight save or a blind I'm thinking, "Wow that was a good one. Congrats." It can be a bit frustrating if you're already having a frustrating game, but what PvP game doesn't end up frustrating when you're losing or playing badly?
Except for double lockers or lockers that are very close to each other. It's never happened to me, but I've seen it happen to streamers and that seems miserable. Mostly because you remove any of the counterplay/interactivity for near invincibility until they run out of flashlight juice.
But yea Medkits are way stronger and easier to use. Flashlights are just more interactive.
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It's going to vary, but probably similar for each timezone because human behavior doesn't really change all that much.
In the morning: mostly solo queue. Streamers or generally people with strange work schedules or non-standard sleeping schedules. When you're alone, killer is usually more fun because killer is the more varied role. Solo queuers are usually people who want to play but don't really want to wait through long queue times such as myself.
In the afternoon: mostly the same since most people are working.
In the early evening: probably the time when things are best since people have eaten dinner and are just generally winding down from the day. Hop onto DBD to play casually with their friends. You can't play killer with your friends. Before this patch, this is the time when survivor queues would take forever because killers didn't want to "play against SWF" (which were generally just people chilling with their friends) and so matchmaking became screwy. After the latest patch, queue times seem to be pretty balanced at this time.
In the late evening (like after 1 AM): starts to go back to the same as the morning, but you'll still get more survivors at this time because there are people who stay up too late playing video games.
In all likelihood, there's not a whole lot they can do to fix this with just pure gameplay. This is where the matchmaking incentives are supposed to be to encourage people to play a role they wouldn't normally play. Any time there's an imbalance the matchmaker will start getting screwy mostly because it says, "Hey, I know this match won't turn out good, but you've been waiting for 10 minutes and I don't like that more so GOOD LUCK!"
Otherwise you could end up with a situation where you wait an hour for a match because there's a long queue of people at your MMR waiting for matches with not enough of the other side.
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It still seems really good for those types of killers?
The point was it was one of the most chosen perks as part of the meta so they kept the core of the perk (block generators to force survivors to hide or into the map) and made it weaker on killers who get fast downs to build pressure (like Blight, Nurse, etc). Still seems really good on Trapper and Hag. Probably also good on killers who spread the damage more than concentrate on a single person like Plague or Legion.
If you don't find it useful anymore, maybe try a different perk? That was kind of the point.
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It's arguably stronger than it was before. Although I actually like it thematically and as a "perk".
The perk is basically you get to see the terror radius more accurately than hearing and it also works on undetectable. The downside is you now can't know if the killer is looking at you so you don't know if them being close to you is actually meaningful. They could just be chasing someone else in your area. And the speed bonuses allow you to maybe finish a generator at the last second or the exit gate. If they have clear line of sight on you, you already know they're staring at you.
In contrast to some of the replies, I'd say it's in a good place. The version of the perk on the PTB basically did nothing and wouldn't have been worth running by anyone. I'm all for meta shakeups, but that version on the PTB should have just been deleted from the game if it went to live.
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I'm kind of assuming it gets a change to prevent two people using Reassurance to keep people on the hook indefinitely. It's obviously intended that the delay in the hook timer is to make camping impossible without losing the game, but the developers have always said they have no interest in standoff situations. The indefinite forever creates a potential standoff forever at endgame. The killer either has to leave and choose to lose or the survivors have to decide they are bored and choose to leave their teammate behind. This creates no pressure on either side to actually end the game.
I hope they don't remove the ability to use it multiple times per hook stage, multiple times per game, or at endgame. All they really have to do is make it so you have to wait at least 10 seconds to reactivate it on the same survivor regardless of the cooldown. That way, there's an end which is all that matters for the sake of just preventing a standoff. If the survivors want to wait next to a hook for 2-3 minutes against a facecamping Bubba at endgame, the person on the hook will eventually get sacrificed or one of the survivors will attempt a save.
But, they might do one of the above which would all work to prevent the standoff. I just hope they don't because I think there are valid situations for all of the above situations in normal gameplay.
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Just finished yesterday, but I've been playing survivor more after this patch because of queue times so I completed all of the challenges instead of just the killer ones.
I usually finish right before the fourth page unlocks so this is a lot earlier than I usually finish.
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@Cameragosha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3136831#Comment_3136831
But devs play only survivor , they never play killer.
[Citation needed]
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In regards to Reassurance, what are you even talking about? Chasing after the killer? Stops gen progress? I can tell you 100% that Reassurance, in the way it currently is, will absolutely be the best perk in the game. Even if they nerf it, it will still probably be the best perk in the game.
And Endurance seems like it's always a benefit? You understand the alternative is going into the dying state, right?
For the killer perks you mentioned.
No Way Out - Yes, very solid perk. Just all around very good. Requires you to have hooked everyone at least once to get meaningful time. You're also not required to wait next to the exit gate. You might want to consider walking somewhere else. Killers have a very hard time finding survivors without searching at survivor objectives. This is due to how the game never technically requires the survivors to interact with the killer. If killers couldn't see survivor objectives, then killers would probably never find survivors and this game would be pretty boring.
Deadlock - Um... how is this at all like Tinkerer? Yes, it tells you the generator with the most progress after the current one. But, remember that survivors will know that you know which generator they're on. You can't kick a blocked generator. They will pre-run because there's no reason not to because they can't work on the generator. There are some matches I've had where Deadlock goes off on a generator at the beginning and then goes off on that same generator the entire game because it's never kicked and nobody ever goes back to it. At that point, it becomes a dead perk.
Eruption - You physically have to move to the generator, kick it, and then get a down before someone finishes the generator. Incapacitated only happens if someone is on the generator. If you're kicking a generator in the middle of a chase, that chase will likely last a lot longer due to the time spent kicking. It also has a cooldown that commonly causes it not to synergize well with some other kicking perks like Pop. Because after you down someone, hook them, and kick the first generator you find, it's pretty common for 30 seconds not to have passed. I don't really understand what you mean by the yellow aura that tells the killer you're patrolling that part of the map? Do survivors patrol areas of the map? The yellow aura also doesn't tell the killer anything? It just tells the killer "Eruption is currently active on this generator."
Pain Resonance - Agreed this perk is strong. Requires you to use one of the Scourge Hooks which are in random areas. Sometimes requires wasting time to travel to a further hook or a hook that's not in a good position to defend. I'm also really starting to question if you know what Tinkerer does. I have no idea what a Tinkerer scream is. If you mean the notification bubble that pops up when Tinkerer goes off (not a scream), Pain Resonance doesn't do that anymore. I don't like the synergy with DMS, but just let go of the generator before the hook (which you can physically see with an aura before the effect happens) and DMS won't proc so the killer will have no idea where you are.
Call of Brine - Ok I've figured it out now. You think that the bubble is called Tinkerer. The bubble for this perk only goes off when you get a great skill check, which may not happen ever, and this perk is otherwise worthless if someone taps the generator immediately after you kick it. It also requires you to kick the generator. Kicking a generator = losing a chase. Plenty of downsides. It's still a good perk but to say it has no downsides is strange.
Many of these perks have downsides. They're strong perks but to say they have no downsides is just wrong.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134985#Comment_3134985
Your really underestimating console players here. Controller ofcourse requires more skill than mouse to aim hits but clearly does not make it imposible. Not everyone likes playing on headphones and really only killer which requires that is spirit. I play on console and 3-4K most my games on any killer. Ofcourse there is few limitations I can't exploit bugs oni 180s or blight hug tech and what ever hillbilly has. But that's on bhvr not fixing those or just allowing everyone to use them. We can't use stretched res either but that benefit more survivors. I have always wondered how some survivors know your movements as killer but they use this game breaking exploit to see over walls and obstacles you normally won't see. Which allows them to extend chases much longer. Console needs better optimization.
I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's definitely harder. And, especially if you play casually, probably not that fun. It was just my own personal experience playing on both.
And I generally believed the same thing about headphones when I played killer sometimes on console. When I switched to PC and used headphones for the first time, I didn't realize just how much hearing was used by every killer. It's used fairly often for tracking through walls or knowing which generator is being worked on or even hearing footsteps and what direction they are coming from.
Also, the stretched resolution exploit you mentioned was patched a few releases ago.
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Something to remember is that a lot of people play the game casually and a lot of people play on console too.
For people who play casually, survivor is often the more casual role. And some will just play with friends. They really have no interest in "becoming better" because this is a video game and it's not like any of the skills are transferable to something in real life. It's just a fun way to kill time. And for those on console, they have the additional problem that killer is much more difficult to play on console. It's much harder to flick the joystick to hit a spinning survivor. Most probably play on TVs where they use the TV;s speakers rather than headphones and headphones are much more important for killers than survivors (except against Spirit).
And most of the people at P10 are probably just people who casually play the game. Heard about the Prestige update and heard about the rewards. Then used the anniversary to get their main to P3 before the update which causes their main to be P9 L50. Then you level up one bloodweb and you get P10.
I'd agree that for those who enjoy the game and want to become better that playing both roles helps. But a lot of people just don't care because it's just not important or they don't really enjoy playing the other role so why spend your free time doing something you don't enjoy.
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I'd have to agree that Nemesis' anti-loop is better. If you're at a loop with Nemesis, you're getting hit. You might be able to juke the tentacle once or twice like a Huntress, but you're getting hit at basically every loop against Nemesis.
With Wesker, his anti-loop seems to be fairly weak at most pallets or windows. He's got some decent zoning by throwing survivors into dead zones and he gets some mobility from his power. And you're absolutely dead if you're caught in a dead zone against him (which his power is decent at throwing you into a dead zone). But he's just not honestly that strong at pallets or windows. Ironically, his power seems to be stronger at god pallets than at unsafe/semi-safe pallets. He vaults too slowly for that to be useful at shorter loops, but his vault saves a lot of time at the loops from god pallets.
This is assuming that his movement wasn't just bugged on the PTB. His anti-loop might be stronger if he slid on objects more easily than he did in the PTB. But, at the moment, survivors can usually just hug loops tightly and render most of his power unusable. But he's still 115 so he can still usually get a hit. And even if he slid more, he still wouldn't be able to hit through windows.
I'll definitely be playing Wesker. His power is very fun and it's not completely useless at a loop. And his power gives some pretty insane mobility across the map that gets you into chases faster (like Blight). But Nemesis is definitely the stronger power at a loop.
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It kind of seems like your problem might be that you just follow the same path the survivor takes and expect to just automatically win. The game is made in a way where, if you follow the survivor through the exact path they run, you'll basically never catch up to them. But if you're in an open field, you're faster.
As the killer, you're supposed to watch the survivor and try to outsmart them by tricking them into making a decision that gets them killed. You're not supposed to follow the exact steps the survivor takes 1:1. Killers have to go around pallets and go through windows too slowly for that to be the case. The killer AI in the tutorial is not the proper way to play killer and should not be emulated.
Don't get me wrong. There's definitely advantages to survivors playing on teams. I think they're vastly overstated by many killer players, but there's definitely advantages. If your problem is just catching up to survivors at loops, then it's not really teams that's the problem. It's that you haven't made any effort to learn the basic mechanics of the game.
If you don't find those mechanics fun, then maybe you want to play a different game. Single player games are really fun and I love them. They're really chill and casual and I can just play however I want. If I don't want to really put much effort into the game, I choose a game with a low to average difficulty or one that has a difficulty slider (aka not Elden Ring). This is a PvP game though. The other side is trying to win. You're supposed to put in an effort to outplay them.
There's many guides online about tiles in this game and the basics of how they're played. Once you learn the basic ways that they are run, you can also learn the basic ways to counter them. Better survivors will know those counter plays and will watch for them too. Then you start watching the survivor and try to determine their skill level. Each survivor you chase, you should be making mental notes of which mindgames work and which ones don't and use that to inform your next action.
That's if you want to keep playing. If you don't, that's fine too. As I said, single player games are really fun. I know I used to play Call of Duty at some point and just stopped because I had better things to do than get shot in the head repeatedly by people with more time to learn the game.
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I think the only self healing perks are self-care and inner healing which are both kind of awful? And bringing 2-3 extra perks just to make self-care viable again means you're missing a bunch of other perks for generators, information, exhaustion, or other perks that help in other sections of the game. If you're in this situation often, bring a medkit, drop the medkit for them, and let them heal themselves? Most people are pretty polite and give you back the medkit afterwards.
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@SekiSeki said:
Not a fan of the husk idea myself but that ritual idea seems legit. Even if they don't add it in exactly, adding it in as a boon totem could also work.
Boon: Sacrificial Offering
A Boon that offers comfort amidst the terror.
Press and hold the Active Ability button near a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and sacrifice the totem.
When beginning to bless a totem, a global chime will play indicating the boon attempt.
Soft chimes ring out within a radius of 24 meters during the blessing attempt.
When the totem is fully blessed:
The totem breaks and a random survivor currently hooked will be rescued and summoned to the broken totem.
I don't like the idea of tying it to a perk because then it would require that perk be used, but the rest of this idea is entirely legit. Instead of spawning in an area with a totem, you could use a totem to perform the ritual and it could take the same length of time as blessing a hex totem. It would also give a reason to do dull totems and limit the number of times the survivors could perform the ritual by virtue of the number of totems. The only downside is that Hex: Pentimento would reveal exactly where the ritual happened, but that seems like it would even be good? If they revive the totem to get the slowdown, you get another totem to perform the ritual on if they try to use it to facecamp.
Even if this was a perk, the perk's existence would be more effective at stopping facecamping than basekit BT, DS, or Kinship. If you facecamp, you're taking a gamble that none of the other 3 survivors brought the perk. If it was a perk though, I think the afflictions given to the ritual performer would have to go away. The ritual already takes long enough and a perk is really supposed to be mostly beneficial.
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I mean the game has existed for 5-ish years with BT and DS as the sole counters to tunneling/camping so it seems a bit overdramatic to say matchmaking incentives are the biggest band-aid fix in DBD history.
We also don't really know whether or not the BP incentives will work as they are meant to. If I were to guess by the first day when they were enabled but bugged, I would guess that they probably will work. It was on the day that "survivor in solo queue is terrible" yet killer queue times were 1 second and survivor queue times were 5-10 minutes because it was bugged to give matchmaking incentives to survivors. This leads me to believe the intended effect will probably work. People who have a specific preference won't switch. People who play both but have a slight preference towards one side might be enticed if the reward is high enough. People who don't care will definitely play on the role with incentives.
We don't really know if this will improve the queue times and/or the matchmaking though because we haven't had it properly working for a day to see if things actually perform better. We only have evidence that people can be enticed into playing the "undesirable" role.
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I mean just switch to running Bond and get a teammate to heal you.
I've actually been wondering since the update. Does the self-care nerf also affect CoH? CoH self-care speed was calculated by doing (1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.5), wouldn't the new formula be (1 + 0.5) * 0.35? Which puts the healing speed at 0.525 charges/s which gives a self-heal speed of around 32 seconds?
I haven't been able to test the actual speed and I haven't heard anyone mention it.
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Just a note, Franklin's was changed because of the Nemesis vaccines and Franklin's made it so you could delete vaccines from the game before they were used. They didn't like that interaction so they changed Franklin's. Keys were then changed to require charges to open the Hatch because people wanted to use Franklin's to stop people from using keys on the Hatch.
I think Hatch right now is good although I miss the ability to find it early to remember where it is. I wish they could have just made it so keys couldn't open the Hatch until EGC instead of just not spawning it.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111484#Comment_3111484
if you played the game enough, you would feel if the other side is an SWF or not, soloQ players will always be disorganized, flashlight saves are rare, nobody will take a hit for the other, and most of the most them will hide or fall for gen perks
SWF on the other hand, most of the time are together, gens will fly, one person will try to draw you out while the other survivor is healing or doing a gen, will always be hiding near for a flashy save or pallet stun, will take protection hits and will always have BT, and u will feel a pressure when u are chasing one person and 2 gens pop at once, and they tend to either share names, cosmetics or just TTVS
Um... I play the game a lot?
And the things you're describing that SWF does just kind of sounds like normal gameplay? I just played a solo queue match where a Nancy was following the killer around after I got unhooked and did a flashlight save because I was getting tunneled. She seemed to be doing that a lot of the game because I saw her do it multiple times. I've also gone and taken protection hits. In one match I played today, one of the survivors was dead on hook, injured, and in a bad spot. I hadn't been hooked. Me, knowing that them dying means we won't be able to finish the generators, I attracted the attention of the killer and got hooked. And, before the last patch, everyone ran BT. And what do you expect survivors to do when they're not being chased? Twirl around and do a little dance? Generators get done. I also played a game once with a friend, so we were only two, where we saw the other two were wearing the same David cosmetic from the Rift. So we both switched to David and used the cosmetic because we thought it was funny.
You're describing the normal gameplay loop at a mid to high level in this game. That's not SWF that's just the game. It kind of sounds like you're just saying that anyone who has a passable understanding of the gameplay loop is automatically in an SWF which, if you put it like that, of course everyone who is good is an SWF! You defined it that way!
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I feel this should be obvious but in a PvP game it's inevitable you will run into players who are better than you at the game and this will sometimes feel like they are "bullying" you. In these types of games, it will feel like "survivors are too strong" or "SWF is broken" (even though you have no idea if it is an SWF and, if it is, whether being one actually enabled them to do anything or if you just made mistakes while playing).
This isn't to say anything about the game's balance. I can't know that. But, frankly, neither can anyone on this forum.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106651#Comment_3106651
All of this whilst not doing a single objective, sounds very killer side
Does it deactivate the perk or just the Endurance effect? The aura might still work even if the Endurance effect doesn't.
Old Object of Obsession was also pretty bad. It just created a very annoying and unhealthy gameplay loop for one specific scenario.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106609#Comment_3106609
Which is why they nerfed the duration of DMS. Time will tell if it ends up being just as popular as before.
The time duration nerf to DMS will basically make it so you only run it with Pain Resonance or only run it with Artist. It's already often pretty hard to get actual value from DMS with other killers because by the time you get to the generator the effect is already over and the generator you just activated it on you're already chasing the survivor. It only makes it useful if someone is two-manning a generator.
This change also now FORCES Merciless Storm to activate. While they're saying they don't want Pain Resonance and Merciless Storm to work together, this change buffs the combination. Instead of just having to do more skill checks for longer, you're now forced off the generator.
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They're also effectively bringing back old Object of Obsession. You can combo MoM and OoO to get unlimited aura reading on the killer from 16 meters or more. Now you just have to take 2 protection hits instead of 3 and you get to see the aura while you're both injured or healthy. And you have Endurance.
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I don't know why they didn't just have Merciless Storm have a maximum amount of time it activates for.
Merciless Storm will activate for 9 seconds after the generator reaches 90%.
It takes 9 seconds after Merciless procs with 1 person for it to be completed. Less if there are multiple people on the generator.
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@Tsela said:
on low MMR you can kill survivors simply by looking at them.
By all means try your effective facecamping strategy all you want, see how far that takes you :))
I mean just think about the logic of this.
"Once you start winning with facecamping, you'll face harder survivors and facecamping will be harder."
This is true, but why is it true? It's not true because better survivors will rescue from the hook and deny the killer their kill while doing the objectives. It's true because two things will happen:
- Better survivors will run the killer for longer and deny them their first down until later in the game.
- The other survivors will recognize it's happening and sacrifice the first survivor to complete the generators and leave.
Better survivors might know how to force a trade, but forcing a trade requires two survivors to coordinate with each other which means there's a good chance they both get injured and aren't doing generators. But, even good survivors, if they just happen to mess up once at the beginning, will have a lot of difficulty with this strategy if it happens at 5 gens left. And there are perks to make that easier! And this all assumes that the person on the hook doesn't just immediately get tunneled and go down in 10 seconds!
At the end of the day, the first question regarding facecamping is, "Is this type of gameplay engaging and fun?" Can anyone answer yes to this question? "I enjoy playing as survivor in games where the killer uses this strategy even if I win or lose." Even when I win, this strategy is boring and not fun. And it can even be stressful as I watch the generator repair slowly tick up and hope my teammates are doing the same and hope that I'm not the second person downed.
The next question is, "Does the amount of skill needed to employ this strategy require a similar amount of skill from the other side to counter?" The counter to this strategy is, "Deny the killer an early down and then ignore the hooked survivor and hope they don't suicide." That means that to successfully counter this strategy and get 4 people out requires you to pretty much NEVER get hit the entire game. If anybody ever goes down and gets hooked, that's a kill. Unless they can coordinate a save with exactly one other survivor while the other one is doing generators. And also potentially 3-gening themselves after the camped person dies. I just don't think that's a reasonable metric for a "terrible strategy that doesn't work."
Every killer player should recognize this isn't a healthy part of the game. The fact that killer players are defending this by saying, "When you play against better survivors it will stop working," just assumes that a person who is bad at the game is the only one ever employing this strategy. Or that it's ok for new players to have to deal with this.
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One that I've been trying lately is Desperate Measures, We'll Make It, Aftercare, and Lucky Break.
We'll Make It for fast unhook heals. Unhooks activate Aftercare so you can run away from the hook and find them again afterwards. Aftercare gives you information on what's happening and lets them see you which is useful for solo queue.
Lucky Break is for your own survivability and it gets recharged from healing.
Desperate Measures is for slightly faster unhooks and heals. It's not as fast as Botany usually, but you don't get a Medkit efficiency penalty so it's easier to heal yourself more often with a Medkit.
I then usually bring a Medkit with charges for two heals.
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I think the people talking about MMR are missing the point. This strategy should result in a 4 man escape against any level of player. The OP should have lost the first game or at least been limited to 1 kill. Anything else is a failure of game design.
This patch made that strategy easier. It existed before this patch. Both are undeniably true.
That doesn't mean the solution is to revert the changes. But the devs need to be more proactive with solutions for this for the health of the game.
I feel this is all really simple.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102037#Comment_3102037
????
Are you serious?
The dead hard being gone makes the whole killer game play feel glorious.
Honestly, they probably could have just done the Dead Hard rework and BT basekit and I'd have been fine as a killer player. Hitting people off of hooks was BS anyway.
Now queues for killer are impossibly long so I can't play killer without waiting forever anymore. I think they should have nerfed regression/slowdown perks more. There was really no reason to buff Thana even if the buff is mostly insignificant.
And while some killers seem to have changed up their perks, I'm finding that running the same perks I always ran are just as effective. Pain Resonance is still insanely good and Gift of Pain was already good before the update. Now the numbers are even better. Pop + Call of Brine is still good and combines even better with Eruption now. All that happened is now I can choose if I want the aura reading from BBQ or to stack a fourth slowdown or use Floods of Rage.
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I mean if the survivors are getting mad at you that's not fair because it's not like your expected to peruse the bug reporting section constantly with a fine toothed comb, but there are a few reported bugs that Overcharge continues to regress after you've hit the skill check.
@Sweet_Potato said:
When you kick a gen with both of those perks the gen regression continues even when a survivor touched the gen and is not limited to 30 seconds.
If this is really acknowledged, I'm a bit surprised that Overcharge hasn't been kill switched. I guess it's because it's not "literally breaking the game" but permanent ruin just for kicking a gen once seems strange to allow?
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I believe the general point isn't whether camping is a valid strategy or not. Or whether it's effective. It's definitely not fun and definitely doesn't involve skill. And the "counters" to it aren't fun nor do they require skill.
I don't know of another game that requires players to "play correctly" for everyone to have a chance of having fun. That's kind of the problem.
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It can be hard to find someone to heal you in solo queue and new people are scared to be injured because they don't really understand what's going on around them. So they find a corner to heal. The "finding a corner to heal" was the problem. You took a lot of time to move yourself to a dead zone where, if found, you would be hit immediately. If something else happened where you needed to help your team, even if injured, you were off in Narnia.
The people who previously ran self-care for the above reason should probably be switching to use something like Bond so they can find a teammate to heal them, but they probably didn't read patch notes or just don't really think it's that big of a deal. Self-care is also better in cases when you're trying to outlive your teammate to get hatch. While your teammate is dying, you self-care. When they die, you now have two health states to search for the hatch and can stealth more easily.
Self-care in the hands of a better player, one who understands loops and pays attention to their surroundings, was really powerful. There are times in chase where you're trying to determine what the killer is going to do to figure out if they are still going to chase you or change to someone else. It can often be a waste of time to wait in a safe area during these small periods of time. Self-care gave you something to do during that time. It also let you heal without grouping up or messing up your positioning. I never used it, but it was definitely powerful in the hands of the right person.
Now the heal takes something like 45 seconds without sloppy so it can be better in certain situations, but now finding a teammate to heal you can be roughly as efficient.
I personally never run it and don't really feel like it's worth running.
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After the first couple of days, killers seem to have calmed down a little bit. I suspect that the first couple of days was just either new people playing killer and matchmaking being all terrible due to various factors (matchmaking incentives were bonkers and then, after removed, moved all of the survivors to killer or they left) caused a bunch of unpleasant matches.
I had my queues mostly return to how they normally act on Sunday. Fast for survivor through the morning/afternoon and then fast for killer in the evening. I hadn't been able to queue into a killer match for the first few days after the update.
I still want some better anti-camping/anti-tunneling updates to the game, but it's mostly similar to what it was pre-patch. Still unpleasant when it happens but generally the same as before.
Gens still feel like they take forever and the first gens definitely pop later in the match than they used to. And end of game saves are much harder. But, overall, it's very similar. Currently enjoying killer without dead hard until survivors realize the new dead hard is still probably an A tier perk.
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For others who might find this, achievements don't transfer as part of cross progression if it gets implemented. If you do an achievement on one platform, it stays on that platform.
PS4 to PS5 might be different but if they did PS4 to PC cross progression your achievements would not transfer over. Just in game progress.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
I don't think that making perks to hardcounter tunneling is the way to go. That just means you have to have those perks at all times.
I would rather go for the reason tunneling is happening. Turning the game into a 3v1 assap is just way to benificial.
Give survivors a desperation bonus to repair speed for every survivor killed will make killers think twice before killing a survivor without even hooking the others once.
It will still be a option but atleast the remaining survivors will still have a fighting chance
I generally agree with this. I think you'd have to be careful with a desperation bonus though. If I, as the killer, two hook everyone and then knock someone out, they're probably at 1 or 2 gens left. If they suddenly get a desperation bonus, even if it's small, I'm really getting punished for playing "fair". It'll end up being more profitable to tunnel someone because I need to finish the game before there are 1-2 gens left. If the bonus isn't high enough or the generators take even more time to counteract this boost, then it might make it effectively impossible for 4 survivors to escape for any match that's within a certain range of evenness.
I generally like the idea that DS stun is at 3/4 seconds and causes powers with charges to go to zero charges. It would prevent Nurse/Blight/Spirit from basically ignoring DS and it would allow M1 killers to not be so affected by it at a higher number. I imagine it's similar to Ghostface getting knocked out of his power.
Still might not help much against Huntress but you should be able to find a wall. If you're going down in a complete dead zone against Huntress or Demo, not even DS is going to save you. Just... don't do that.
And some killers this wouldn't necessarily apply to. Billy and Oni are killers where this wouldn't really make sense.
For a more permanent solution to tunneling, I think they need to add more options for your teammates to interfere with it. Anti-tunneling shouldn't necessarily be a perk you bring or a thing you do by yourself. But, if I see a teammate getting tunneled, what are my actual options? I can body block. That gives the killer a free hit and maybe even a free down. And a lot of killers will just hit and then continue chasing the person getting tunneled anyway. So now I have to have a teammate heal me for 16 seconds and the person is still being tunneled. Did I actually help or just hurt the team?
Another option is to just make all of the effects of Guardian basekit. It suppresses scratch marks and pools of blood for a certain amount of time after being unhooked. Or buffing Guardian so it shows both you and the teammate you unhooked the killer's aura.
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@GreyBigfoot said:
Needs to be a secondary action, or penalty removed entirely. Could just be M2 to quietly cleanse/search. M1 to do it like normal.
This exactly. If it was an option as a secondary action it would be pretty cool. I've caught survivors cleansing totems before because I could hear the totem through a building. But 30% is just too high of a penalty to have it always be done even when you know the killer is 3 light years away from you. Especially if the killer runs thrill of the hunt or something.
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I think some others have mentioned, but he's missing the part that makes people upset.
Getting chased is fun. Getting chased by the killer is fun. But, as much as people make fun of the developers for this, at some point you want to win by escaping. You want those chases and macro plays to actually result in a tangible reward.
Tunneling can be frustrating for both the person tunneled and the other 3 people.
For the tunneled person, sometimes they want to be able to reset to get to full health. Or they want a break from chasing. Or they want to be able to position themselves in a place that's advantageous. Or they're playing with friends and they don't want to sit out playing the game for 5 minutes because they got tunneled and now have to watch their friends play. Or they want to feel like their actions were a "win" and the game doesn't treat it as one. Cool, you outplayed the killer and allowed your teammates to escape. Why can't you escape too?
For the ones not being tunneled, they don't get an opportunity to be chased or they have to risk completely throwing the game because they tried to take hits for the person being tunneled instead of rushing generators. Then, after the first person gets tunneled out, nothing that they do really matters if there's 3 or more generators. For them to have any chance at escaping, they effectively have to run the killer for 3 generators. If you're running the killer for 3 generators when there are only 3 people in the game, then matchmaking screwed up. A 4v1 game shouldn't require a person to be able to 1v1 the killer to counter an incredibly easy strategy.
I feel like this patch is really good in a lot of ways. If the killer plays in a certain way, distributing chases between different survivors and applying pressure to different areas of the map, I think the game has a lot going for it and feels like a breath of fresh air considering that now you see more than just Dead Hard to a pallet or everyone running BT. The problem is that while this is true, the problems that existed before this patch that made it unfun in certain games still exist. Killers got a lot of quality of life changes in this patch and I think people were expecting more QoL changes for survivor. But all they effectively got was a worse version of basekit BT and a DS that now can't even properly do its one job.
I think it's more just that disappointment. I'm not sure anything is very different from before.
For the record, I really don't like that DS is effectively the only deterrence to tunneling in this game. In my opinion, OTR/BT aren't really deterrences to tunneling. You just give them one extra slap and then start chasing them again. If we want to talk about secondary objectives, I'd rather DS be a secondary objective like an item similar to Sadako's tape. Something like, "There's one or two knives in the trial for you to find. If you find it, you get the equivalent of DS the perk." That way if a killer is tunneling you can go find a knife, give it to the person being tunneled, and then they get to use it once. Maybe make it a real item the killer can see. If the killer slugs someone with the knife for 20 seconds, the knife breaks or disappears. Keep the 3 second stun. This allows the killer to play around the knife, makes anti-slugging perks better, and the killer can just always decide to pick up the person anyway since having the knife would have involved one of the people doing a secondary objective like a totem. Maybe a stupid idea, but it would be nice if there was some way for the non-tunneled survivors to effectively play around tunneling that didn't just involve body blocking.