mischiefmanaged
mischiefmanaged
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975391#Comment_2975391
Setting victor up with the iri addon that exposes survivors after kicking him then coming out of insidious for the insta down.
This sounds kind of funny. I probably wouldn't mind this one. If you've got a pretty unique meme build that makes the match fun, that's one thing.
People who AFK to "lower their MMR" or basement bubbas are just annoying. AFK people are boring and are just wasting your time. If their goal is to just lose, they could play and just not kill anyone and we'd all get a lot of bloodpoints and practice. But, the reason why they're AFKing to try and lower their MMR is because they want to bully people and they don't want to feel like they lost so if they try to chase anyone and it gets mildly difficult after 10 seconds they'll personally throw a fit.
Basement defender is just annoying. It's, again, boring after the first time it's happened to you.
The bigger issue is that these meme builds aren't exactly uncommon. If it was just one match where someone does something creative and it's scary/funny (like the Victor fishing thing sounds funny), then I'd be ok with it. But basement defender isn't uncommon and it's not interactive. It's just a fancy name for facecamping someone in the basement.
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Barbecue is bugged right now not to show the proper amount. Do we have to manually compute the real number if it includes multipliers or do we just take whatever it says under "MATCH" and call it a day?
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@Madjura@MandyTalk is there any idea on what the distinct reward is?
The reason is I'm having trouble figuring out the order of how I should spend bloodpoints to unlock stuff.
I'm in the middle of leveling up my characters. I switched from Switch to PC so I had to unlock everything again, but I had already played and had a plan to unlock stuff to minimize the number of bloodpoints I'd have to spend. I unlocked all of the teachable perks on killers for which I plan on using and skipped perks that I didn't want to show up in the bloodweb. During that time, I found 4-5 killers that I have fun playing. My first step was to unlock tier 3 perks on them which involved completing the level 50 bloodweb a lot. On those killers that I like, I have at least 4 perks at max level to get a build that I normally play with. I didn't prestige because, under the old system, it was better not to prestige to unlock stuff. I did this because the old system incentivized this method of leveling up.
Now I'm in the process of finishing to unlock perks on those killers as I haven't unlocked them all. I also want to level up the killers that I haven't put as many bloodpoints in.
With the upcoming change, I don't know what I should do. I'm not going to be able to unlock all of the perks on all killers before the update happens. The new system will change so that I'll need to level up to prestige 3 to unlock tier 3 on everyone so there's an advantage to doing it ahead of time. Many of my killers are not level 50 and prestiging them to tier 3 wouldn't be very costly. Prestiging the characters I play more frequently would be though because I would lose all of my add-ons. But, if the distinct reward is something nice, then I want that distinct reward for the killers I actually play! If I can only get bloodpoints to prestige a limited number of times, I don't really want to do it on killers/survivors that I don't even plan to play as.
That's my problem. We're getting really nice events like the bloodhunt and the anniversary where we get a lot of bloodpoints now. I don't know if I should prestige my favorite characters now to get the distinct reward or if the reward is something very minor and I'd be better off pumping bloodpoints into lower level characters.
As an example, I play Nurse a lot. She's one of my favorite characters to play so I haven't a lot of add-ons and she's the first one I maxed the bloodweb with. I don't really play Artist or Bubba a lot, but they have perks I use on almost every character. If the distinct reward is character specific, I want to prestige Nurse. If it's not character specific, I might start with Artist or Bubba so their perks are auto-unlocked when the new system comes out.
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I generally don't care if the survivors are playing with each other or not. It's a video game. People are allowed to play with their friends. I also don't generally believe that winning because survivors were bad at communicating with each other to be very satisfying. I'd kind of like survivors to have more tools to communicate with each other without relying on outside comms.
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@BohemianWaxwing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957038#Comment_2957038
Yeah, but Peanits — consider that there are other reasons to get the down on the final survivor that aren't "establishing dominance." I've definitely been in chases with the final survivor and that player is skilled. They clearly want to be pursued for real, and it's obvious we both, mutually, want to have that one last chase.
Nothing wrong with killing them if you catch them and want to, but sometimes you would prefer to gift them the hatch. It's one of those moments that, if it feels like the most fitting match ending to you, makes you feel good about the other human behind the character you're playing against and maybe makes your day a little brighter.
This. So much this.
I'm playing killer to chase people. I want to outwit them. I enjoy playing the powers that are a bit harder to control and trying to learn them.
During a game, there's sometimes one survivor who is really good and I have a lot of fun chasing. We have one final chase. Sometimes they get hatch during the chase which is really fun. Sometimes they don't and I down them. Since I had so much fun chasing them specifically, I like to give them hatch as a way to say "gg". If they're on console, it's the only way I can say good game!
When I first started playing, I remember getting carried to hatch in one of my first games. I thought it was such a simple gesture to spend the time to go give someone the escape to say good game. It kind of felt like a special part of the game.
Making the yellow mori basekit AND automatic kind of seems like it's throwing all of that away.
When it was announced there was a mori rework I kind of figured it would be something similar to a devour that can be activated basekit when survivors were being dominated. Or a kind of endgame where the hatch spawns and then the mori starts "charging" to start forcing the game to a close. The "let's make yellow mori basekit and automatic" isn't really what I was imagining and it's both boring and takes away something special from the game.
If it was just yellow mori is basekit, I don't think that's a problem and it seems like a simple and fun change. It's the automatic part I have a problem with.
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@Starrseed said:
An internist thing to know would be what are the announced rewards we get for having a Charakter p3 when the change goes live. If it's outfits like the legacy outfits I would put some time and effort into getting as much of the chars I regularly play to p3 if it's just charms or BP I would max put legion to p3 and thats it. Oh and what's about license chars? Last time it was only og characters and I highly doubt they will suddenly give a cosmetic for Quentin no to speak about the stranger things chars
This is my question too. For progression, I have most of the teachable perks that I want on the 4-5 killers that I play most often. Not all of them but I've got at least the ones that I want at tier 3. I have all of the perks I usually use on a survivor. I'm at the point now where I'm just trying to unlock the rest of the perks on those 4-5 killers and then I'll move on to other killers I want to level up too and I'd also like to get some off-meta perks for survivor to play with them.
I didn't prestige. If there's some reward like legacy for prestiging, I'd like to prestige those 4-5 killers. If its something not very good, then I'd rather keep the large number of good add-ons that I've got for those 4-5 killers that I actually play since I had to finish a lot of bloodwebs to get the perks on those 4-5 killers.
Kind of in a place right now where I don't know what's the most optimal way to go about spending bloodpoints. I won't have everyone maxed out by the time the change goes live and I'd clearly benefit from it if it went live now, but I'm also not going to hoard BP for 3 or so months while I wait. I guess I could prestige the ones I don't play, but who wants something like "legacy" on the characters they don't play?
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Losing gens fast at the beginning of the game is pretty common and not really a problem. When that happens, it's usually generators near their spawns and not part of a 3 gen. Losing 3 generators is not the same as "half the game is over". The first 3 generators are the easiest. 4th and 5th are where most of the game is played.
If you lose 3 generators and take that to mean "the game is halfway over" and then start camping, you're just giving the survivors time to break your 3 gen and you're not putting any pressure on the 3 survivors able to do generators. Of course killer is impossible if you just decide not to play 70% of the game.
There are other times when you just have a bad beginning of the game. That first down is the time when killer is weakest and that first down is really what determines how much pressure you have moving into the second half of the match. Roll with it and just move on to the next.
If you just decide, "Killer is impossible I did absolutely nothing wrong and there's nothing I can possibly do to improve," then feel free to do that? I don't like to play that way. Seems both frustrating and not fun.
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I think it's generally a lot easier to get them when you play Killer. This is because your player level is based on two things: time in game and emblems.
Time in game is kind of obvious. Even if you lose, you're still in the game for the entire game. You can't get tunneled out because you're the killer. The max for in game time is 10 minutes and most games will last 10 minutes.
Emblems are also generally easier because you get emblems by just playing the game as you're supposed to as killer. As survivor, you're competing with other survivors for emblem points and sometimes you have to make non-optimal plays just to get more benevolent or objectives. As an example, if you get chased the entire game, you might not get the emblem for objectives.
But yea they're sort of supposed to be hard to get. They've started doing them as some login rewards and the anniversary last year had them as login rewards so you'll definitely get a lot from that.
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Just played one game with Ghostface. The chase music is so much better now. I don't know how to describe it but the previous chase music pulled me out of the experience and felt painful to listen to and this one pulls me in so when I listen it's good but when I'm concentrating on the game I don't really notice it too much.
That's a compliment. I think chase musics should pull you into the experience to the point you don't even realize the music is there.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925928#Comment_2925928
On this note: We hear ya, and we'll be working on an improved version. In the meantime, we'll be turning down the volume of his chase music in the first bugfix patch.
I really appreciate that the team is working on this. I just wanted to ask if we could just have his chase music reverted until there's a newer one. So far, I haven't really had a problem with the volume. It's really just been the speed of the music that's been incredibly hard to listen to.
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In case this is a genuine question from someone trying to learn more about the topic, I'll try to give a genuine answer.
The reason is because heterosexual is the default. Whenever you see a character, you generally assume they are heterosexual. When you meet a person in your life, you probably assume they are heterosexual. Even if you have gay friends in your life, you probably assume strangers on the street are heterosexual whether you think about it or not.
If you're not heterosexual, you also might think of others as heterosexual by default. If you're struggling with your own feelings of self, due to existing discrimination, family issues, or just generally being "different", you might feel uncomfortable and feel "wrong" or "broken". When you learn that someone else is gay and they are proud and everything is alright, it helps you to feel like you can be proud of yourself and you are perfect as you are.
That's who this is for and that's why it's important that it's loudly said and announced. It's for that person.
If you're not that person, then this announcement isn't really for you. Not every announcement, piece of news, or section of entertainment is for you or directed at you. When you fit the "default" for society, it's sometimes hard to remember that. When you aren't the "default", that's the norm.
If we lived in a different world and being straight/gay was literally 50/50 and there was absolutely no discrimination in the past, present, or future, then yes an announcement like this would be weird. We do not live in that world so it's important that we give a platform and comfort to our LGBT+ friends.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912050#Comment_2912050
No, it's not. Because rankbased matchmaking that was there "for years" was matchmaking that reset you down only 4 ranks at most. The matchmaking back in the old-old days where there was a full reset, except pips were based on BP, and then it was changed to a victory cube for killers, but still BP for survivors. Then the full reset was removed and a new pip system was introduced. The system I am asking for is the current pipping system in combination with the old(or current) full reset.
So how does a full reset to ash 4 with the current pip system, where maybe 20% of the community gets red rank consistently(note, not permanently) on either sides(note 2, not both sides) even compare to the old matchmaking where 40% of the community was permanently red rank on both sides? And a large portion of them being red rank basically on day 1.
It's actually significantly more difficult to reach rank 1 now than before, especially early on in the month. For anyone to be red rank day 1 is only for the most dedicated players who are good enough to consistently double pip.
And no, the matchmaking being tested over a longer period time at random intervals would lead to good results to see how much it has changed compared to prior, as players basically have a random spread on the grade system.
As for your points. 1. No, camping and tunneling alone created the need for the safety pip, and it's basically a reward for not camping and tunneling all game so that one cannot be dispersed. 2. Not really? It's not that easy to get that first pip for survivors, maybe that should be done for killers, which makes sense, as the double pip requirement is also tougher than survivors where the single pip is arguably much easier.
So since point 1 is an absolute no just for the sake of camping and tunneling, and point 2 barely needing any changes, no, it wouldnt look even close to similar to kills/escape. Unless you want to make it unable for survivors to pip if they dont escape, or make it impossible for killers to pip if they dont gain at least 3 kills. Both being quite insane statements.
Also:
"You'd also have to take away the rank reset to 20 and then the grade rewards with it." Why would you need to do so? I never implied that. The whole point about turning MMR off was to use the grades instead. So why remove the reset to 20? Because all players start at the same day? Well, people who are rank 1 would definitely play on the day of reset. People who are rank 6 might not always play the day of reset. People who are rank 14 might not even play for 6 more days before they boot up DBD. So why remove the reset to 20? It might have 1-2 days of uncomfortable games for some people, but that would sort itself out within the first 3 days. Also, why remove the grade rewards? The only reason to remove that, is if you removed the rank reset to 20 again, but I never implied that. That was all you.
A full rank reset means that matchmaking is chaotic and random on rank reset day. Then those who rank up have hour long queues and nobody to play with. Both of these are undesirable. There's also still no reliable way to rank down. Doing it that way would mean matchmaking didn't exist for most people for the larger part of a month. This also assumes that people are playing the game during that time period.
Again, this stuff was already tried. It already had problems. A small modification wouldn't meaningfully change things. There is no meaningful difference between pipping with bloodpoints versus pipping with emblems because that wasn't the root of the problem and you wouldn't reasonably expect to get a different result. The developers would be wasting a bunch of time they could be using to experiment with changes to dead hard. I'd rather have that change.
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I like broken too but I think it runs into a similar problem as exhaustion. One difference between broken and deep wound is you can dead hard, become broken, but get to a really strong tile. The killer now says "f this I'm not dealing with this tile" and leaves. You now sit on a generator and broken goes away and there was no cost to using such a strong perk. This is a similar problem to exhaustion. You can just sit on a generator and it goes away by itself. Deep wound forces you to do something else for 12 seconds as a time out so you get a very strong perk but you give the killer slow down.
Broken means they can't heal but they were already probably not going to do that. Deep wound forces you off of generators even if it's for a shorter amount of time. It's 12 seconds where the survivor can't do anything useful if you choose to drop chase. CoH also doesn't affect mend speed. If someone dead hards and then has chase dropped, it'll take them at least 32 seconds to heal due to mending + self-care in a boon. That's a lot of time where they can then be interrupted in a bad spot.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919639#Comment_2919639
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vx08Gy5Ny4
You should make detailed list of his points in this new video.
I'm not sure how this is related to the current discussion? I only watched about half of the video because it's mostly talking about certain game mechanics make certain meta perks necessary and the meta perks, mostly dead hard, have very frustrating design.
I'd agree that dead hard and CoH are very frustrating. I probably wouldn't agree about BT, DS, and unbreakable but it also feels like those perks are way too strong that running anything else on survivor is basically throwing.
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A few reasons in combination with each other. OhTofu actually did a video before MMR was released that did a pretty good job summarizing the problem with ranks that I'll link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YJPOW7bwgs.
Some specific technical reasons that caused the above problem.
- It was possible for both sides to "win" and increase their rank. This meant that everyone eventually reached red ranks.
- Matchmaking matched you with at most one color away. This meant that a rank 1 killer would get matched with anyone from rank 1 to rank 8. This was a huge range and accounted for about 40% of the possible ranks.
- Literally impossible to pip down until you got to rank 16. This meant rank 17 was effectively the bottom. If you played the game for maybe 10-20 hours you would be rank 17.
- Hatch usually gave you a pip or at least forced a safety pip at pretty much all ranks. If you played stealthy with Urban Evasion and Left Behind you could reach red ranks after playing enough time while basically killing your entire team because you forced the rest of your team into a 3v1.
- Safety pips were incredibly easy to get. The only time when safety pips required some skill whatsoever was in red ranks, but you would still get matched with red ranks if you were purple.
- Farm matches, which are usually initiated by the killer with the survivor having little to no choice, would give +2 pips without any way to pip back down.
- Farm matches were common at higher ranks too because farmers got +2 pips too as you could pip up without getting a single kill. Now, farm matches are pretty much relegated to low MMR where new players can get some more bloodpoints and have a bit of relaxing fun. Those of us who want to just play the game can play the game. Unfortunately, my survivor MMR is very low since I don't play it often and I'm bad so I still have to waste time dealing with farmers.
These all in combination with each other meant that most people who played the game more than a few times a month would end up in at least purple ranks. Purple ranks get matched with red ranks. This likely meant that a majority of the population was just thrown into the same matchmaking pool which meant that matchmaking was essentially random. This heavily favored killers because a good survivor with bad teammates would still lose because this game is basically impossible for survivors as a 3v1.
Now, with MMR, it's basically mathematically guaranteed that the majority of the population will be in the middle and the ends will be occupied by fewer people. If they translated our hidden MMR numbers to ranks, you'd probably find most people and matches in green ranks and there would be very few red rank players. Everyone on the forum talks about "at high MMR" but there's a very good chance none of those people are anywhere close to high MMR but, because matchmaking is more balanced, it feels like what high MMR would feel like. We know from what the developers have said that very few people are at the top and bottom.
People in this game are very limited by how rank-based matchmaking worked. It was so common for people to get to red ranks within 100 hours of playing the game that it felt normal. A proper matchmaking system will have very few people at the top. Not a majority of the player base!
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MMR works great for me. Much better than rank-based matchmaking ever was. I hated rank-based matchmaking. I would get to purple ranks and start losing every game but not pipping down. When it came close to rank reset, if I had managed to pip down to green, I'd outright stop playing because I'd be afraid to pip up to purple ranks because I wanted to reset to yellow and have fun again. Now, if the games are too difficult, I just use the match to practice, lose, and move to the next game. I don't have to wait a month or completely throw an entire game for 4 other people just to rank down.
MMR seems to start giving me easier matches after a losing streak. I lose a few, turn off the game, come back, and the games seem to be easier. I'm sometimes a bit disappointed because sometimes it feels like it adjusts too much and I start beating up on babies.
I'd probably guess I'm somewhere in the middle so I get the most opportunities for getting matched up with other teams. If you're at the top or the bottom you'll probably end up having a worse time just because it has a harder time finding people for you to face so it has to find someone with a large variation. If you were already in low MMR to begin with and you start throwing games to never get a kill, you're probably not going to change your MMR at all or find "easier" matches because you're already in the easier matches.
It was too easy to safety pip at all levels in rank-based.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
So dead hard gets the same distance, the same iframes, but it just puts you in deep wounds when you do it?
You're aware this doesn't actually change the issues the perk has in any substantial way? It just adds a nonsense penalty to using it.
I mentioned this. It's still undeniably powerful, but it has a penalty to using it. If you only remove the iframes, you don't change the part where the perk gives you free distance. If you remove the distance, you don't remove the iframes that allow you to dodge every attack. If you remove both, that's the entire perk.
I'm not sure I would describe it as a nonsense penalty. Again, it would still probably be the strongest exhaustion perk. But, it would at least have a tradeoff. The other exhaustion perks wouldn't require you to mend and waste 12 seconds. It wouldn't allow you to dead hard and then get adrenaline because adrenaline would only heal deep wound. And it would still undeniably be a survivor perk that gives the survivor an advantage.
And it would still have the same counter play from the killer. Bait the dead hard and they go straight to the dying state.
Personally, I think you could also remove the iframes. But, if you only remove the iframes, it's still a free extra loop at high MMR. Dead hard's not really a problem at low/mid MMR because it's most commonly a panic button that doesn't get used anywhere useful and has easy counterplay. At least with this it gives the killer some minor slowdown. Now, it's still really annoying at low/mid MMR but it's not actually a balance issue.
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I don't really know how to say this but nothing about the screenshots in these threads is strange at all.
"4 man SWF with meta perks" is so much complained about. The survivor meta perks are all on free characters and unlocking them takes maybe a week or two. You only play as one survivor during a trial. David you get to level 35 and get Dead Hard. Bill has Unbreakable and Borrowed Time at 35 and 40 (don't remember the order). Sprint Burst and Decisive are also easy as Decisive is at level 35. Getting all meta perks on killers takes considerably longer because there are more killer meta perks and there are more killers. Survivor? It takes a month if you play casually.
"Experienced 4 man SWF" there's no way your friend can know this. First, at your friend's level, there's no chance they're getting paired against a group where comms would actually matter. Second, getting blinded, pallet saved, or body blocked does not require any comms coordination.
That's not to say this game is new person friendly. The in-game tutorial is good for the basics but absolutely does not prepare you to play against others. There's no mention or acknowledgment of any part of the meta. The tutorial doesn't even mention totems. It doesn't mention flashlights or looking at walls. It barely even mentions lunging I think. But I don't really see any issue with the matchmaking just from this picture. Based on the number of points, it seems your friend got flashlight blinded once and then quit and yelled about SWF.
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The perk would honestly be passable if it worked on non-generator skill checks or worked on your own skill checks. If you get a great skill check, you bank a failed skill check in the future. For survivors that are new it would be a good perk and also help their new teammates or friends too.
It would still be one of the weakest perks in the game but it would at least fill a niche and be slightly different than Technician since it would require tokens instead of just always being on. It's like a developer looked at Technician and was like, "This perk is way too strong."
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From what I've seen, the drop location has to fit the hitbox of the downed survivor or you won't be able to drop. There's no feedback that this is the problem though. If you're having difficulty dropping, try to move away from obstacles on your left side.
I've never confirmed it, but I'd guess it's possible that body blocking survivors could interfere with your ability to drop too. That would be one of the most common situations to drop someone.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912420#Comment_2912420
Wouldn't that be abusable?
For example, as killer you have a higher MMR than all 4 survivors, and after you killed one survivor, right in the endgame when you're to get 2 kills they one who's to die DCes and the other 2 escape, so overall you killed 1 and 2 escaped, out of 3 because who DCed doesn't count.
Or, if as killer you're to lose a match because you're trying to raise your MMR as much as possible, you can just eat a 5 minute penalty every once in a while DCing, or have no penalty at all crashing the game intentionally, same for the survivors.
I think so but realistically you could only eat that once or twice a day. My understanding of the DC penalty is each time you DC you go up one tier and one tier gets forgiven every 24 hours. So if you DC once, you get a 5 minute penalty. DC twice, 15 minutes. If you DC twice one day and then DC once the next day, you'll eat a 15 minute penalty on the second day.
It wouldn't be very practical. And the reason to do it so you could face tougher matches doesn't really make sense as a motivator. I think this could be a problem though if the MMR's were displayable because then there would be more of a reason for people to try and keep their ranking.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912049#Comment_2912049
But how can that be? Every forum member assures me they only play MMR. /s
In all seriousness, the reason for this is probably because, to the forum members, their matches FEEL incredibly hard. That doesn't mean they're facing high MMR survivors. That doesn't mean they're high MMR. If a matchmaking system is working correctly, your matches will probably feel hard because you're facing people of your own skill level. When you get better, your opponents also get better.
Most people would probably be surprised by their MMR and, if their MMR was reset to say the lowest or the highest, would be surprised just how much variance there is.
This is probably one of the weak points in the MMR system and not showing the ranking. I think the downsides of showing the ranking are greater than the upsides, but it does suck that you can't see yourself progress so your matches just still feel hard without realizing you got better. I've seen this a few times though where I played a few different killers, then started using one killer more than the others. When I go back to the killers I didn't use very frequently, the survivors that I found difficult are a lot more predictable.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912005#Comment_2912005
Have you guys considered testing it over the course of a couple of months? Not the entire time, but 1-2 days twice a season at random intervals? Or maybe having that as a standard at the end of each month, having 28 days of SBMM and 2 days of grade based matchmaking? While its important for matchmaking to be accurate, especially for newer players, it would be nice for long-term players to have 2 days of basically playing in a pool.
I feel it needs to be remembered that the rank-based matchmaking that you're asking to have tested was the matchmaking for years. I'm not entirely sure what you're expecting them to learn by asking to test it over a couple of months. They already know what that system looks like and they didn't like it.
You'd need to propose other changes to test too and that would be much more involved and each person would come in and say, "You didn't actually test it correctly because of X reason." You'd also have to take away the rank reset to 20 and then the grade rewards with it. All of this for a system they already tried tweaking, didn't really like, and to replace something that the development team thinks is healthier for the game.
And what's the end goal exactly?
The improvements to the rank-based system would be probably:
- Get rid of the safety pip.
- Make it much more difficult to pip once.
Once you implement these, it's probably going to look more similar to the current kills/escape system than you'd think.
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911755#Comment_2911755
Yes, of course MMR can possibly work, but in its current iteration these kinds of nonsense changes don’t do anything to address the fundamental flaws with the system as it is. Obviously, people who are escaping more tend to have more skill than those who are not, but then you also have the thousands of Claudettes who hide in a corner and get the hatch. In comparison, ranks had less room to slip by, as you had to actually contribute in all areas to advance. Getting into this same song and dance with BHVR just makes them look like they are spewing nonsense and doing even know how their own fans actually works.
Hatch doesn't affect MMR. You cannot go up in MMR rating by hiding and getting the hatch. It counts the match as null and doesn't count it.
You MUST escape through the gate for your MMR to go up. It's unclear if gate escapes after hatch is closed count as an escape. I personally think it shouldn't because I think that it's still random, but they haven't told us what happens in this specific scenario.
As you reference, if you hide all game to wait for hatch, you are much more likely to die since your team is playing a 3v1 and you'll eventually get found. If you are bad in chase, the killer is more likely to prioritize you when they see you since, to them, it's an easy chase and easy hook. Then your rating goes down.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911631#Comment_2911631
DBD is not symmetrical, so you cant even use that as a balancing point.I'm also not saying the current grades is a good system for multiple reasons such as
- Grades was not used previously for mmr and so many people climbed to grades they wouldn't.
- There is still a safety pip, this means just naturally everyone will climb the grades, this is why I suggest removing it.
- You also currently cant go down in grade, this means all these players have climb in grade over a month as its impossible to go down.
I know DBD isn't symmetrical. I said that in my comment. Even if DBD is asymmetrical, it is still not acceptable that one side wins 80% of the time. I gave a comparison as if it was a symmetrical game as a way to make it more obvious that this isn't right. If you think that DBD being asymmetrical means it's ok for one side to win 80% of the time, you and I have fundamentally different opinions about how matchmaking should be in this game.
And yes. The reasons you stated are reasons why grades would be worse than ranks. They stated those exact reasons in the blog post. I stated them in my post. I'm not really sure why you felt the need to repeat them.
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I'm curious if they just gave up on bidirectional matchmaking. I looked back at my comments and it seems I had the most fairly balanced matches on days when bidirectional matchmaking was enabled. It seems like having bidirectional matchmaking be forced on for some time until it times out would help prevent someone being pulled into an unbalanced match when they haven't waited a long time.
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From what I read in the update, grades were a complete disaster. It sounded like they wanted to head off people saying, "But grades aren't the same as ranks because you can't go down and rank reset," so they added text saying, "We know that there are differences so this isn't the same as enabling rank-based matchmaking for these reasons, but we tried it anyway because it was close enough and we saw the same issues we saw previously."
Kill rates of 80% are just not ok for a PVP game. Imagine a symmetrical game where the red team won 80% of the time and blue won 20% of the time. You'd start wondering what's wrong with the game. Maybe asymmetrical is different, but we've got a scenario where 4 of the players lose 80% of the time.
If you watch Otz's stream and watched him attempting his Artist streak, you'll realize that he completed his Artist streak during the grade-based matchmaking test. When I was watching him play it on that day, the survivors were acting very strange and playing in ways that didn't make any sense for him to be playing against. He started barely having to try to win every game.
I think if you saw the same thing I did and your opinion is that it was good matchmaking, you and I just have different opinions about what matchmaking should do.
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The difficult skill check really isn't needed. The perk is fine as-is and the skill check just makes being a new player more difficult while getting tunneled as a new player is already so common. I think some kind of timed activation is fine just so you can decide to use it or not and it makes it more interactive, but they could make the skill check much bigger with no problem.
Something not often considered is that not all of the platforms that DBD runs on are at 60 FPS and sometimes not even a consistent 30 FPS. Difficult skill checks are much more difficult on Switch than on PC.
If you tunnel and get hit with a DS as killer, that's on you. If a survivor baits you into picking them up when they have DS, they just outplayed you. Hitting the skill check isn't skillful and it's usually just missed because you forgot you had DS or because the platform you're playing on lagged due to bad optimization.
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For survivor, a lot of the guides will start off by teaching you the tiles and how to run them. This is important, but I think one of the things not mentioned that's most important is learning how to change your camera angle and look behind you while running.
This is a good video for teaching that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBfZz7DulY.
You can either just go into the tutorial to practice this or you can go into a custom game with a friend. Once you're able to run in the same direction while changing your camera at will, the tile guides will make a lot more sense and be more accessible.
For killer, there's a pretty steep learning curve and a lot of game knowledge that's not in the basic tutorial. This is true for survivor too, but you might feel it more on killer. First, I'd set some realistic standards for yourself. You're not going to 4k and you might not even get one kill. At this stage, if you get 4-5 hooks I'd count that as a win and pat yourself on the back. If you don't get that many hooks, then that's cool too!
For killer, knowing the tiles is much more important because you have to know how the survivors will probably run and trick them into panic vaulting or running the wrong direction. Don't worry about generators and just focus on trying to play a tile. Learn which tiles are safe for the survivor and break those pallets immediately. If you see a tile that's not safe for the survivor, don't break the pallet immediately. Try to play around the tile and get a hit. If you break every pallet, then this game is a pallet breaking simulator and won't be very fun.
Something that's maybe a bit unorthodox to recommend. I would suggest you never camp, never tunnel, and don't use "Hex: No One Escapes Death" when you're new and learning. These strategies ARE effective and you will need to use these in certain situations as you get better. No One Escapes Death (NOED) IS an amazing perk and very strong. As a new player, they are ultimately self-defeating. The matchmaking doesn't really care how you got a kill, it just marks if you got a kill. If you got a kill, then that means you're better than that person. Sometimes, survivors will suicide to save their friend. Now, you've gotten a 4k because the survivors went "lol baby killer" and did stupid things. At this point, you WANT these survivors that are better than you to leave through the exit gate so that matchmaking doesn't decide to put you against harder opponents.
You will eventually start using these strategies and learning when the proper time to use them is. They're just ultimately self-defeating to use when you're new as the goal is to become more familiar with the game and better at it rather than to win. If you win, you get harder opponents. If you get harder opponents before learning how to face harder opponents, each match will feel worse.
Also, if you have the DLC, Legion is a great beginner character. The power is very simple and basically gives you free injuries and slow down, it helps with tracking (which is difficult when you're new), and you have to learn the basics of how to play tiles to get your final down. The perk Legion comes with, Discordance, is also great for helping you find your first survivors and knowing where to go.
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@Mandy said:
My personal opinion is that you have not done enough in the match to earn a pip - depipping is completely fine.
Yes being camped and your team mates not helping can suck, but that's generally considered to be part of the game and there are perks to help with that - Borrowed Time for example.
(and I'm speaking from a position where I get hard camped and mori'd a lot!)
It would be nice if there was some kind of reward for getting facecamped on the survivor side that discourages suiciding on hook. When you play with friends and a person gets facecamped, they go, "I'll hold on for as long as possible so this doesn't happen to you." In solo queue, there's a 50/50 chance of whether they'll hang on out of spite despite not getting anything or if they'll just start suiciding on hook to get to their next game faster. When they suicide, it means the primary strategy against facecamping (doing gens) doesn't really work and facecampers get an easy 2-3k with no effort and everyone having a terrible feeling match.
I understand that attempts to fix facecamping that affected gameplay, such as slowing down the hook timer, didn't work. But you could at least give rewards such as BP to people who get facecamped so there's some reason to actually give your team enough time to counter facecamping.
You could make it so that having the killer near you while on the hook for a minimum of 5 seconds (or more or less) gives you a "distraction" BP score that contributes to the survival category. That category is already the hardest to get as a survivor, it doesn't affect gameplay, and it gives a reason to stay in the game beyond just pure spite. It also accurately describes what the person is doing. If they're getting facecamped, they're acting as a distraction for the killer to allow their team to get the gens done.
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I play mostly killer and it's always seemed the opposite to me.
Map offerings are an issue for both sides. For the Tinkerer challenge, I put on Scratched Mirror Myers and sent myself to Lerys. The survivors didn't even have a chance. They didn't choose to go there. I just decided my challenge was more important than them getting a fair shot at playing the game.
For perk weight, it feels like you just ignore the huge number of incredibly strong killer perk combinations. Survivor perks are mostly about fixing game balance stuff like camping, tunneling, and slugging. Outside of that, you've got dead hard and iron will which are very strong. If you want to run anything else, you have to leave behind something. If you leave something behind, you're opening yourself up as the weak link on your team. Survivors might have more perk slots, but do they really have more perks? If most everyone on the team is forced to run BT and DS just in case the killer starts camping or tunneling, do they really have more perks?
On the other hand, killers have a ton of options to choose from. There's a ton of gen regression, tracking, and chase perks where you can just kind of choose whatever you want. The killer meta is a lot more expansive than the survivor meta. If you lose after trying something new, so what? You got to play the game the entire time and have some fun chases.
Many killer add-ons are completely game changing. Some aren't something to write home about, like Pyramid Head's add-ons, but if I just put on the green range and recharge addons for Nurse it's like turning on easy mode. Blight has insane add-ons. Myers can outright kill you with a purple add-on. Trapper has add-ons to instadown you if you get caught in a trap and to have them reopen. For some killers, there are common and uncommon add-ons that are ridiculously strong. Sure, some killers have underwhelming add-ons that don't really do anything. That doesn't stop add-ons from having a hugely significant impact for some killers.
Medkits are very strong too but to say that killers don't have some pretty insane add-ons is strange. Toolboxes can change the game too, but this is just outright ignoring how many killers have very strong add-ons.
You're not supposed to win every match. You're not supposed to reliably 4k. Sometimes survivors are just better than you and they use their perks better than you. It's not a big deal. It's a video game.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2877030#Comment_2877030
Without a medkit, yes.
Wouldn't it be ~21 seconds?
(1+0.5) * (1-0.5) = 0.75 c/s heal speed which is then 16/.75 = 21.333.
I think this is probably a good place as it still requires setting up the boon, but I believe it's still faster than self-care.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2875102#Comment_2875102
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MZQUPHY9ZIVI/pxl-20220325-042645839.jpg
Unfortunately everyone's hero Tippy's finances are kind of farked for the foreseeable future 😅
😢 good luck and I hope it works out.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I had an alarm to tell me when it kicked off as I intended to make this my first Kickstarter buy but life found a way to make sure that wasn't gonna happen :(
No board game for Tippy
You can fund it at any time for the next month. The pledges that go to the amount of requested money is just "will this happen or not". Kickstarter campaigns can go higher than that.
Now if you pledge it's practically guaranteed that you'll get the game!
Caveat: Because it's a kickstarter, there's technically no guarantee that anything happens and they can take the money and not deliver anything. But, I personally think that's fairly unlikely with this specific kickstarter.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872940#Comment_2872940
It's the music that I want to see everyone's reactions to!
I've been so excited about this
Is the change to the music only on the killer's side or is it also on the survivors? If it's on the survivor's side too, that would make it possible to determine the killer's add-ons by just listening to the chase music. I don't remember what each of the add-ons are so it might just be obvious that the killer has them equipped, but I don't know if that's a potential concern.
Other than that I'm excited about the new music and the remixes.
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871273#Comment_2871273
Will each day have a different MMR calculation,because I may think that the first MMR way to calculate being a crap and the other one being awesome and say it doesnt work.
If I had a guess, I would assume one of the days will include a test for survivor MMR having a team based component. Some days will probably just be a change to the matchmaking algorithm in how it uses the score. This is just a guess based on the last Q&A.
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@MonsterInMyMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871153#Comment_2871153
There's a different between wanting to win and using every tool at your disposal to win; this goes for both sides, not just one people want to win for an invisible number that means nothing if you remove that invisible number people have nothing to really sweat for you can't say that's wrong because people really are doing it for an invisible number.
Also what a strawman with the "easy matches" you do realize this system doesn't always pair you against good players correct?
The people who want to win to raise an invisible number and play "sweaty" using "everything at their disposal" are going to do that regardless of the number because they've decided they want to "win" and they will add a win condition regardless of what the game thinks. The most obvious win condition is killing the survivors. Before MMR, streamers regularly did win streaks where the condition was killing the survivors even though the rank based system would allow you to pip up without killing more than one survivor.
Turning off matchmaking so there's essentially random chance that either side will not be able to play the game does not solve anything other than causing those who are new to just leave the game.
If you're a new killer and are matched with survivors who are able to loop, do generators, take hits for each other, and are decently well coordinated, they can essentially keep you hostage for the entire game. You either disconnect or hope that they recognize you're new and let you go.
If you're a new survivor, you get turbo tunneled the minute that the killer finds you in a very obvious bush. You then get unhooked and, because you're injured and likely don't have iron will, you're much easier to find than the unhooker. The killer has to explicitly decide they're not going to tunnel you even though they can guess you don't have DS or, they can just say whatever and risk the DS anyway.
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If one side isn't "sweating" then the other side is just getting... destroyed even though they're trying their hardest? This is the weirdest request because you're essentially saying you want to have easy games because winning is fun. Maybe you should consider playing a single player game?
At least statements like "the matches feel unbalanced for me and I feel like I have to try too hard to get a single hook/have a single generator done" are an actual complaint with the matchmaking. "I don't want to try but I want to win" is just not a reasonable request for a multiplayer PVP game.
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@crystalkitti said:
Like this post? https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/315329/survivor-locker-audio-amplified
This sucks.... Hiding in lockers is supposed to HELP the Survivors!! ;-;
Gah I used the search bar for "locker" to try and find a related bug! I hadn't seen one and just had a match where I was able to pinpoint a survivor inside of the locker they were hiding in. I had previous matches where the same thing happened, but forgot to record any video. This looks like the same one.
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@Mandy said:
As we've said in the past, things like this are not solely down to us and as such we cannot promise that will ever happen. As we've seen with the cross progression for Switch it's a complicated situation with many factors involved. So we are unable to give an ETA on cross progression or even confirm if it will ever happen.
Is there any chance we can get an idea about what the difficulty is? I bought Stranger Things and cosmetics on Switch, including a cosmetics from a few rifts, but then switched over to one of the PC platforms. I get that the situation is complicated and you may not be able to give substantial details, but is this a thing where the issue is beyond BHVR's control but may still be possible or should we just give up hope that it will ever happen? I'm fine if it's the latter and would just go "well that sucks, whatever" but it's harder when we don't know how likely it is.
If it ends up being impossible to do full cross progression, is there a possibility we'll get partial cross progression with cosmetics or the possibility to do a one time transfer of cosmetics? I've already rebought most of the DLC when they're on sale since they aren't that expensive, but I can't re-get the rift cosmetics that I got previously.
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@dreamsy10 said:
Nurse was bugged. She wasn't supposed to eat the stun + fatigue when stunned, just the stun.
This isn't related to that. In this case, she's going into fatigue and ignoring the pallet stun completely. Maybe that's how it's supposed to be.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845345#Comment_2845345
Alright then, if it only exists to facilitate matchmaking then why use the MMR format at all? Why call it "Skill Based Matchmaking" if it isn't meant to in anyway account for your actual ability to play the game?
They could have sorted matchmaking out by simply setting up matchmaking gates where new players could only play with new players and based the entire system off total time spent playing the game. We know they have that number and even have information to such a granular level that they can figure out who actually played Bubba so they could pass out iri shards.
There were more effective ways to get the same or slightly better results without even remotely crossing into a territory where you needed to make a background mmr system nor did it need to be called Skill Based anything. I know this gonna edge into pedantic territory, but what has been conveyed by their messaging does not match either the definition of the words uses or reflect the reality of the implementation of the system in question.
If you want skill based matchmaking then by default your progression system needs to be an integral part in that. If you just want new players not to get curb stomped you can simply let new players play against each other till they get enough game time in to push out of the gate into the wider playing field.
Matchmaking based on time playing the game would be awful. I play with a group that plays for fun and doesn't really try to go and get better at the game. They just like getting chased, getting scared, and having funny things happen. This is a very common way that people play this game. Why would this be a good metric to send us against harder killers? Experience can be correlated with a person's skill, but it also doesn't mean a person is skilled because experience has to be paired with an active desire to learn and improve. If you don't care to improve but just like playing the game at your current level, why should you be penalized? Seems like a good way to cause players to want to leave the game.
The usage of "player play time is more indicative of skill" came around because being rank 1 was considered such a joke that DBD veterans had to find some other way to rank themselves and play time was just about the only metric they could easily see. It's not actually a good metric for player skill. It actively discourages people from playing the game more.
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The constant mentioning of the hockey analogy is getting really old but also just wanted to call this out.
The comparison to a sport like hockey implies that DBD is a symmetrical competitive game with clearly defined win conditions, of which it is none; DBD is an asymmetrical party game with a great many ways to get to the end result of either kills or escapes.
The analogy has no connection to whether it is symmetrical or asymmetrical. Nobody implied DBD was symmetrical and the analogy does not fall apart if it is asymmetrical. I keep seeing this "but it's asymmetrical" like that matters at all and suddenly invalidates and disproves every other thing he said. Please explain why that matters.
The developers have now gone back and said, "Yes, there are clearly defined win conditions." You can say you don't like that. You can play not to "win". I have a bunch of fun playing some games while "losing". It turns out I'm quite bad at sports but still like to run around and kick a soccer ball or shoot some hoops even if I'm bad and I still have fun.
Cool. It's a party game. I'm again not really sure why that matters. Mario Kart is also a party game and it doesn't take a lot of skill. After a few games playing against some friends who aren't as good at video games, they get bored because they still like to have a shot at winning. It's not a very fun party game if you always lose. There has to be some chance that you win. Waiting in a queue for 10 minutes to get stomped by a god nurse in 4 minutes is a good way to just get people to stop playing the game. You still need matchmaking in a party game because otherwise it's not very fun and what is a not very fun party game? A dead game.
In sports, there are also many different ways to get to the end result of goals. In soccer, it's obviously skillful to go for hard shots on goal. But, you can also win the game by baiting a defender into fouling you so you can get a free kick on goal. Free kicks on goal are easier to shoot than most other shots. Does that mean the team didn't win? Who cares if there are a lot of different ways to get kills or escapes? That was Patrick's entire point! There's a lot of different ways to score goals in hockey. Just shooting repeatedly from across the rink repeatedly isn't a very good way. You'll get a lot of shots on goal but they'll be bad ones that have no shot of scoring. Why should you count the number of shots to determine skill? But, usually hockey players don't just take repeated potshots that have no chance. So, usually, the number of shots usually indicates that there were more good attempts to score and so you're more likely to get more goals. Why not count the goals then?
It honestly wasn't a bad analogy. The way he said it was a bit forced and it's not a 1:1 comparison because of how the game structure is setup, but it's also really hard to distill what was probably several months of back and forth technical and design discussions into a minute-long answer to a hostile audience. I know that the people here don't really believe it, but as a developer myself, I would likely assume that Patrick and whatever other developers worked on this spent a lot of time both thinking about it and discussing it. They went through a lot of phases where they strongly believed, "It won't work at all if we only count kills and escapes because our first attempt doing that didn't work." They wrote and rewrote prototypes over and over again. They tried alternatives and they didn't work either. They reread the papers on MMR repeatedly and stared at a computer screen just asking, "Why won't this work the way I want it to?" They asked themselves, "What if MMR just doesn't work for this game?" and were forced to work on another project because there was a deadline and they couldn't spend all week hitting a brick wall. Then they revisited some of those original assumptions and found ways to tweak it so it would work. They likely also spent many months figuring out ways to get more statistics so they could run their own simulations rather than forcing the entire community to test whatever solution they wanted to test. The only reason why we know about their thoughts while they were developing the system is because they told us because they wanted to be transparent about where their current opinions were. The reason they are getting more cagey with telling us those thoughts is because, each time they do and they later change their mind, the community won't shut up for years about a thing they no longer believe.
For what it's worth, all of my matches have been much better and consistent since MMR came out. When I escape as a survivor, it feels good. When I die, it feels like I had a chance and the person. As a killer, my matches will be a bit more varied, but generally if I get stomped for a few matches it will scale back the intensity of the survivors. If I stomp too much, the game seems to put me up against survivors who have a bit more experience. I rarely feel as if I have absolutely no chance when playing. When it was the rank system, it was a complete crapshoot. Will I get matches with facecamping Bubbas and teammates that don't do anything? Sure. I got those before too.
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I'll admit I don't know if this is a bug or not. I figured I would just report it in case it was. If it is, it's really minor as I still go through fatigue. It's not at all like the previous bug where a validated grab would cancel directly into a hit with no fatigue or cooldown.
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@[Deleted User] said:
A fun buld is third seal and plaything, been enjoying that. Would suggest the scream add-on, it doesnt change how she play's, gives some small info if you blink past a survivor is sort of fun.
Indoor map tips here we go.
Basically all maps have a level of static setup outside of the RNG. Indoor map layouts are heavier in this regard with RPD and Midwhich being the most static and not having any real layout change while Lery's and the Game will have some element of RNG you'll have to adapt to. So it basically boils down to remembering and creating a wireframe for those maps so your not blinking short because there was a wall and being able to cut off survivor's unexpectantly. I forced myself to play Lery's and Hawkin's alot to get those maps down and it worked pretty well considering there the more difficult ones in my opinion.
I'd suggest Stridor but the change where Iron Will just kill's it's use and some killer add-ons makes it redundant these days.
Other Perk's would be information based, like nurse's or all ear's, usually best to take 1 info perk but nurse can use basically all perks. (Save the best for last and play with your food don't give her anything.
It's not necessary to do 2 blink's for traversal, sometimes it's better to eat the fatigue and then get another full first blink.
You don't have to play nice and you will need to eat dead hard swings.
Knowing your lunge is also a great tip i see alot of nurse player's struggle with, they generally swing every time when chasing and get a longer fatigue for it, so get use to feeling for the distance and start practicing not swinging. It's small but helps.
Something to add to the end of this about "sometimes don't attack". If you do a first blink and don't think you can get a second blink, but you accidentally start charging the second blink, you can just keep holding blink until you go into fatigue. You won't use your second blink and you'll be back to two blinks faster with less fatigue.
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I don't have a screenshot or video but I can confirm I saw this yesterday too. I thought it was strange because I thought those breakable walls were guaranteed, but I just moved on because I thought there might be a rare chance the breakable wall just isn't there.
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Thana would, in my opinion, also benefit pretty heavily from affecting blessing as well as cleansing. CoH can, at the moment, mostly neutralize Thana and can make it cost more to get Thana going than its worth compared to other slowdown perks. If it affected blessing, that would at least give Thana more slowdown and make it a bit harder for everyone to get quick healing from CoH.
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Still have no shards. I had the game open at the time the tweet was sent. My game said I had a save error and I restarted. No shards given. I'm guessing having the game open messed up the shards.
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I'm missing mine too.
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Looks like someone else experienced this on the survivor side and has a video: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2772359/#Comment_2772359.