mischiefmanaged
mischiefmanaged
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You only get a prestige level if you had 70+ perk tiers unlocked. At 120+ it would be P2 and 170+ is P3.
If you had prestige levels, you got an extra 2 prestige levels for each one (essentially prestige x3).
So if you had them at level 50, didn't have enough perk tiers (just getting to level 50 gets you about ~60ish), and didn't prestige, you're out of luck.
This was listed in the patch notes.
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@Neprašheart said:
BHVR and players, who do play as a survivor exclusively were convinced that players do use those perks, mainly BBQ, for their effects and not for the bonus bloodpoints.. Even though the overwhelming majority of the community has been literally telling them so for years.
My guess is, they have wanted an excuse to keep players playing the game more frequently.. Resulting in higher money incomes.
Yes this is exactly it. It makes total sense that BHVR believes that killers mostly used it for the aura reading. So when they stated they wanted the perk to be used less, they took away the aura reading so killers wouldn't use it as frequently.
Wait literally the exact opposite of that.
"BHVR are survivor mains and only play survivor lol" just give me a break. It's not ok to harass the developers just because you play a game they work on.
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Stridor Spirit is mostly a Spirit who isn't running a better perk.
Stridor Spirit was mostly to counter Iron Will. Without Stridor, Iron Will was 100%. With Stridor, it was something like what Iron Will currently is.
While Iron Will isn't 100% anymore, there are perks that give 100% sound suppression (like OTR which you'll see constantly). Stridor still doesn't help with those and you don't need Stridor to track someone with Iron Will anymore.
Making the sounds louder also makes it more difficult to pinpoint exactly where the sound is coming from. If someone doesn't run Iron Will, you'll hear them from further away and will have a more difficult time pinpointing your phase.
It's probably just people trying it out thinking that the Iron Will nerf made Stridor Spirit viable in the same way it was. But I suspect people will have difficulty with it, think Spirit is just too hard, and then stop playing her again. Or they'll realize it's not very good and use a better perk.
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@Astrian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070298#Comment_3070298
I am an active Legion main, played 5 games in this current patch and 4K every game. Only one game did they ever make it to 1gen left and I was played extremely poorly. Every other game was 2 - 4 gens left.
Viability isn't hurting Legion this patch, if they play well and realize when to drop chases, there's nothing you can do as Survivor. Even people running green medkits with all the addons on the world can't out heal your damage.
One of the 4 gen games was on The Game, I literally ate every pallet on the map, predrops and everything and nothing could stop me. The second someone got close to finishing a gen, Jolt stopped them. Predropping does not work vs Legion and if the map is small enough you're cooked.
Something to consider is that Legion DID get better this patch because the meta around them changed to make their basekit better. The primary things that countered Legion were all nerfed and things that benefit Legion, Thana, kick speed, attack cooldown, were all buffed.
If you play Legion a lot, your MMR probably stabilized at a certain level. Now, because Legion is better, you'll probably be more effective against survivors in general and survivors who are at your MMR may not be able to beat you.
There's also the general randomness of matchmaking. For those 5 matches, you may have been facing against worse survivors.
It'll probably take a lot more time and matches to really determine exactly where Legion is. Will Legion with certain perks/addons be oppressive S-tier? Possibly. Thana does seem like a potentially unhealthy change. I'm not sure we can say that from playing 5 games on the first day of the patch where the survivor meta just changed and survivors are trying to figure out what combinations work well or may be experimenting with perks they previously determined were bad to see if they're more viable now.
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Split up/pre-run when you see someone go into deep wound, 99% your mend and then work on a generator until the mend timer is almost up, and pre-throw safe pallet/run to the corner of the map.
Congrats you're pretty much countering Legion.
Legion's definitely stronger than before and Thana probably didn't need a buff, but this isn't going to make Legion S-tier or even A-tier by any means. He might be high C or low B with the meta change though which is still a considerable buff to him.
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People say that after every patch.
This change will likely have some bumps but will hopefully be an overall good for the game. At the least, it's worth something to try something different. It might take a few follow up patches though to work out the balance.
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I personally haven't uncapped my FPS so I play at 60. I'll still get rubber banding on occasion, but it's not very frequent. I've seen streamers who play at 120 FPS and they'll get pretty intensely bad rubber banding every game.
I would personally guess that the issue is something independent of the FPS and that a higher FPS makes it worse or happen more frequently, but reducing your FPS cap does seem to help until they figure out the real cause.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061127#Comment_3061127
Games with a DC (or more) are not considered when collecting data.
Good to know but this can also bias the data in the opposite way. For random DCs, it can have killers get a higher number of kills than they would have gotten otherwise, but rage DCs usually happen when a team is getting stomped and would remove the matches where killers are dominating. I get a decently large percentage of rage DCs in my matches especially when the person goes down and is on death hook.
Not sure if there's a better way to handle it. I'd be curious what the percentage of games are with at least one DC as they seem fairly common, but the matches with DCs may just be more memorable.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059126#Comment_3059126
Yikes.
Wihle it is true that the strongest Perks need some Nerfs and the weaker Perks need some Buffs to change the Meta, the way the Devs did it is just wrong.
They did not nerf the strong Perks, they nuked them. I mean, look at DS - there is 0 point in using DS now. People who played after DS got the Unhook-requirement will already know that 3 seconds is not enough. There is almost no distance gained. Before DS was already useless against the strongest Killers, now it is useless against basically every Killer.
The goal should be to offer ALTERNATIVES to DS and not to replace it with Off the Record.
Same on the Killers side, Ruin got nuked. But you will just replace it with another Slowdown-Perk. Whats the point when the only reason for doing that is to brag about "We changed the Meta!", when their decisions are just stupid? Especially because on the Killers side, nothing changed, it will just be 4 different Slowdown-Perks now. (And even worse - stacking Slowdown-Perks is even more advised because of the BBQ-Nerf).
So, if you think that it is "admirably" to go the super-lazy way of nuking Perks into being useless so that players are forced to run other Perks (without even addressing the reason why those Perks are used, this is something they also talked about, but this does not happen. At least I dont see any meaningful Anti-Tunnel-mechanic in the game...), then you are easily impressed...
I mean this seems a little overdramatic.
Sure, DS is worse than it was previously. 3 seconds could probably be changed to 4 comfortably. But, that doesn't mean DS is completely useless. It's still one of the only perks that can turn the killer picking you up to an escape with no help from your teammates. If you go down in a dead zone with DS maybe it's not a problem if you go down immediately? Realistically, you'll probably go down at a pallet or at a locker. With the DS nerf, you might also find killers less likely to respect DS and then you hit them with it. Currently, DS is so common that every killer just assumes you have it and slugs you for a minute rendering the perk mostly useless without some help. It's still a solid perk that provides a strong benefit. It's maybe not S tier anymore but it's still strong. The only other perk combination that can really do the same is Flip Flop/Power Struggle/Unbreakable and that still doesn't work if you don't go down at a pallet and it doesn't work if the killer picks up immediately.
Yea, it's pretty useless against Nurse. A lot of perks are useless against Nurse.
Ruin is still going to be powerful. It's the only perk in the game that regresses gens automatically without having to actively drop chase. All of the kicking perks usually require you to drop chase or get no use from them. You also potentially go to a part of the map with no survivors. Ruin allows you to hook someone, start a chase, and then it automatically regresses the generator of a person who goes for the save or it forces them to stick to the gen to complete it before saving (giving you more time and pressure). Is it worse? Yes absolutely. Nuked? That's a huge overexaggeration. It will still be a solid and useful perk. Remember, generator times are increased to 90 seconds and the time on hook is not. Currently, if you hook someone, they have to complete their current generator and run to the hook in 60 seconds, but the generator takes 80 seconds. If they have been working on the generator longer than say ~30 seconds they can probably finish it before saving. Now it's ~40 seconds which is HUGE.
Are these perks weaker and people will potentially choose to run other perks? Yes and yes! That's the point! If it turns out that they made a mistake and it's too weak to the point where nobody uses it according to their statistics, it'll get buffed.
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I don't really understand what you're trying to say, but the entire point of the patch is to nerf common regression perks in order to make other types of regression perks or chase based perks more attractive.
That's the entire point. Hex: Ruin isn't supposed to be the same. It's supposed to be weaker.
The advantage of Hex: Ruin over others is that it works automatically and doesn't require kicking. The negative is that you can't use damage generator perks which will regress the generators faster. The other disadvantage is that it deactivates after someone dies so if you just tunnel/camp you're deactivating your own perk.
If you've ever played on the survivor side, the Hex: Ruin totem still being active after someone has been knocked out of the game generally means you lose even if you cleanse the totem.
Hex: Ruin is still going to be strong. It's still the only perk that automatically causes all generators to regress automatically rather than by a specific action. If you put someone on the hook and start chasing someone off of a generator, you're forcing the other survivors to choose between saving their teammate before you get a down OR finishing the generator. If they choose to finish the generator and you get a second down, you can sometimes force the first person into second stage. If they choose to get the save, you get generator regression.
It'll still be a strong perk. But, there will be other attractive generator regression perks that don't come with the RNG of using a Hex totem.
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The perk is kind of cool but it really just needs a few minor tweaks and it'll be good for specific builds.
- Increase the time it's active. If you use this perk at anything other than tier 3, it's basically impossible to use. At tier 3, it's also difficult to use but at least possible.
- If you get a hit while the perk is active, it should refresh. At the moment, you can get a hit while the perk is active. Then an opportunity arises for it to be useful but the timer ran out.
- Remove the terror radius thing. Fast vault a pallet anywhere and it breaks. I can't really see a reason why it matters considering the perk tells the survivor that the killer has the perk.
The problem is that the perk is just never active at a time when you're both in a chase and there's a pallet that's down and that it's loopable. With the above changes, it would still be not the most useful or best perk but at least it would be active sometimes and force survivors into the situation that the perk is seemingly designed for.
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Pyramid Head and Freddy as others have said. They just need addons that are worth running. At least PH has range add ons.
Nurse doesn't need an addon rework, but her range addons either need to be reworked into a completely different effect or modified to be something other than "remove all counter play".
The main counter play with Nurse is getting her to miss blinks and making distance. The range addons speed up her blinks so it's less punishing to miss long blinks and it's harder to get distance. Nurse also has a weakness that it's easy for her to win a chase, but more difficult for her to traverse the entirety of large maps. Range addons basically make it so she can traverse the entire map easily.
If the developers want to the range addons to still be there, I think they could be modified to either decrease blink speed equivalent to the extra range so that she has the same blink speed and/or increase fatigue for missed blinks. Possibly just both. If you only increase fatigue, it only affects Nurse players who miss blinks more frequently (mid to low level Nurses) and doesn't really affect amazing Nurse players. The speed by itself still makes it possible to just miss a blink and then catch up to the survivor who was getting distance.
They could also just completely rework them to something else like they did with Legion's frenzy cooldown add ons.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026193#Comment_3026193
Oh yea, as a Legion main, I am loving the new Dead Hard.
Current Dead Hard. You're in a Frenzy, closing, closing, SWING and MISS because he just used Dead Hard... he got distance and you missed and are now stunned out of your Frenzy.
BUT new Dead Hard? Closing, closing, swing and hit... oh he's used Dead Hard, he had the Endurance effect so you applied a deep wound... that suc... wait... You're a Legion... your hits in a Frenzy already apply a Deep Wound, so you're fine... continue on to the next survivor as normal. The fact that he has Dead Hard means NOTHING to Legion now because Legion can ignore the new Dead Hard the same as they do Borrowed Time. Even if you Dead Hard the 5th hit, you're still going down. Legion in a Frenzy ignores Endurance effects completely.
I think Legion's fifth hit doesn't ignore deep wound, it just becomes an instant down. If you use the fifth hit on someone currently affected by BT or a styptic, I think they get out safely.
It also appears from the PTB you can use Dead Hard while already in deep wound and you'll stay in deep wound so Legion doesn't counter it nearly as much as I thought they would. I suck at survivor though so I wasn't able to confirm that because I suck at timing the Dead Hard in general.
It'll definitely be better for Legion for hits 1-4 as someone won't be able to Dead Hard to interrupt your chain hits from frenzy anymore.
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I'm not under the impression that Iron Will was buffed because of Spirit. They said it was to make the modifier math consistent. It probably had some special code that they wanted to internally clean up and it had an outward effect on the game.
They probably thought, "This won't be that big of a deal." Then they saw it affected pick rates to a large extent.
I think the nerf will mostly kill the perk and it seems a bit extreme since Iron Will was mostly useless outside of tier 3 (similar to Whispers), but I guess they'll find that out when they see the usage rate plummet? If they wanted to make you not completely silent, but also not completely useless, I'd probably guess 70/80/90 would be better numbers.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026193#Comment_3026193
You forgot that Endurance doesn’t protect against grabs. The current version allows you to lunge forward to be entirely out of reach of a killer when you vault so there’s no possibility of a grab. This new version doesn’t do that, if the killer is close to you when you trigger Dead Hard and then vault they’ll be able to grab you during the vault animation. This isn’t an uncommon scenario, either, a lot of current Dead Hard lunges are literally lunges for distance when a killer is almost but not quite in range to swing and the survivor is almost but not quite to a window.
My understanding is that Dead Hard will have an animation so you won't be able to vault or turn during it. Maybe that's not true though.
I am worried about the endurance effect though.
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I'm pretty convinced it will be stronger except against Trapper, Legion, and Deathslinger.
You'll still be able to use it to tank a hit and killers will still have to bait it out. If a killer whiffs, the penalty is worse. They get an extra speed boost, lose collision, and the killer does the longer weapon wipe instead of the missed attack.
At the current moment, if you miss, you can usually body block and get a second chance to hit when it's used badly. That'll be gone.
For Legion, he can put people in deep wound easily and prevent the attack from being used. His frenzy won't be interpret by hitting in dead hard.
No dead harding through a trap.
Deathslinger just hits straight through it.
Every other killer comes out worse. M1 killers still have to bait it so it can be used to get extra distance to a pallet. Killers that hit with powers can't aim to hit at the end of the dash. Think Plague and Pyramid Head.
It's definitely a buff to an already strong perk.
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If you take someone out of the game and Ruin is still active, you've already won. This won't affect the perk at all.
The nerf in regression speed will make it less attractive but that's about it.
Having it so that the only way to deactivate Ruin is by having someone die would make the perk so unbelievably strong it would be run every match and have killers win every match.
The only way I can see this affecting anything is if you're hard facecamping and so everyone is sitting on gens and you're not distributing any pressure on generators. In which case, Ruin does nothing, it deactivates by itself, and there will only be 1-2 gens left by that time.
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Just hit them or tunnel them. They're also reducing the basic attack cooldown. Once they get hit the first time, they have to spend time mending which is doing nothing and they can't use things like Dead Hard or any other endurance effect like a styptic.
I don't really understand the fascination with trying to remove body blocking. There's not a whole lot survivors can do to engage in teamwork. Teamwork is fun to play against and makes the game longer because they aren't doing generators during that time. If the survivors are playing well with teamwork and beating you then shouldn't that be... encouraged?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020457#Comment_3020457
What people who are disagreeing with me are saying. Is they DO want a free out basically though. I'm not sure what's so hard about understanding the situations I'm describing. Outplaying the grab has counter play. If you change it to where the grab CANT happen....WHAT counter play is there to that ? The answer is none
The counter play is hit them while they're unhooking. Then hit them again. Proceed to put them on the hook. If this isn't fast enough, you can even let the first hit interrupt the unhook. It just shouldn't result in a grab.
I've been disagreeing with you and consistently saying that the unhooker should be punished. I haven't heard a single person in this thread describe that. What's been said is that a successful grab should not result in two downs. Both the person already on the hook and the unhooker. Only the unhooker should go down.
Maybe this wasn't obvious but if the unhooker is injured, I think grabs are fair game. Unhooking should be interruptible and preventable if the survivor going for it is injured.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020157#Comment_3020157
As I proceed to just sit on a gen and rush it because I know we have more hook time and can just leave them hanging there for longer...lol
See how that turns out?
Doing what you want causes the exact same problem you are disliking but in reverse.
That's um good? You've left your teammate on the hook where they're doing nothing. The generator you're doing takes longer to do so you get less done because you're down a teammate. The killer is pressuring one or two of your other teammates who therefore aren't doing generators. If you then do this for too long, the killer has already hooked a second teammate and can now pressure the first into second stage.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020286#Comment_3020286
Yes. NOT removing hook grabs will be what makes people leave. Specifically that. Not other changes.
I'm sorry that I don't feel that unhooking in the killers face should be so safe. I'm sorry that I don't think it's healthy that it's a free guaranteed escape for everyone in an EGC. I'm sorry that I feel they should INCENTIVIZE not camping and tunneling and should INCENTIVIZE healthy game play as you put it. Instead of punishing the killer for SURVIVORS mistakes. Instead of allowing survivors to kick the killers in the balls. Because "haha you can't grab. So I'm just going to force the hit. Then let another team mate save. Then tbag you at the exit"
Nobody in this thread has said that unhooking should be safe and without punishment. We've said camping is too powerful and that hook grabs make camping much more powerful and detract from the overall fun of the game. The killer has many options for punishing unhooks. There should be some counter play that requires equivalent skill.
You keep saying, "Survivors shouldn't get a free escape," but we're saying the opposite is also true. The killer should not get a free kill just because they're in front of the survivor. If the survivors group together and go for the save together and get a 4-man out, they outplayed you. They won. Your MMR will go down and you'll get matched with someone easier next time. That's how healthy video games work. It's a video game not a power fantasy.
It is dangerous to unhook in the killer's face. It already is and it will continue to be. Unhooking in the killer's face still almost guarantees a hook trade especially since weapon wipe speed is faster. What we're saying is that if you do that you don't get two downs. One of those downs is on a survivor who will probably now hit second stage or insta-sacrifice.
If you're a killer who doesn't facecamp, these changes wouldn't effect you. If they got rid of hook grabs, it would effect exactly 0% of my games. When a hook trade is happening, I don't wait to play the grab game because I personally think the grab game is BS. I trade and throw the survivor who did the save back on the Scourge Hook. I don't camp at the endgame because I don't care for pity kills.
On the other hand, when I play survivor, I play against these killers constantly and it's frankly just boring. The best play becomes, "Leave my friend on the hook and take the easy escape out of the gate." Other times it's, "I looped the killer for 5 gens and now they're going to facecamp me to death."
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020275#Comment_3020275
I dislike camping I never camped even when I could of I don't do it. Camping is not rewarding to me, but I'm sure to the ones that do it makes them feel like a skilled killer or whatever high they get from it. Camping to me it's crap it's a bum move that player is not skilled it's a cheap win.
Don't camp, take the loss practice learn from your mistakes play better.
The Devs know what they have done and I'm sure they have something ready if every match the killer is doing nothing but camping. This update is not live yet it goes to the PTB next week sometimes you have to see how things play out.
This is what I do too. For me, I would play a mix of survivor and killer and I would play survivor both solo and with friends. I mostly don't play survivor solo anymore and don't play it as much when playing with friends either. This is mostly because we have to wait 5 minutes to get into a match with a killer who then gets a down at 5 gens and starts hard facecamping.
When you're playing with friends, it's really disheartening and upsetting to just have no ability to counter that playstyle and for it to be outright encouraged by the developers.
So when I play killer, I don't camp even at endgame. I'd rather take the loss and have MMR adjust my rating appropriately. These changes seem to be more aimed at people playing killer who want to win without actually trying and want to get at least one pity kill every match regardless of their skill.
I think for killers like us, the change will be overall positive for both sides. I'd just like to see a change that makes it actively less rewarding for the killers who play like that and make playing survivor miserable.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020138#Comment_3020138
Like I said the changes they made ( I'm sure you read them) are to push killers away from that type of gameplay.
Their give killer players a chance to change the way they play. If they don't want to change the way they play and refuse to interact with the survivors and continue to camp at 5 gens. Then the Devs will do something.
Yes it could be 3,6,9 months before camping is nerf in the ground or survivors are buff to deal with it. Who knows the DEVs could already have something ready sooner then later.
But you have to give killer players a chance to change.
That's cool that they're making chase style gameplay more accessible and rewarding, but camping is still strong, possibly stronger, and much easier.
A game shouldn't require the killer to choose to play in a way that's fun for the other side. That should be the default gameplay loop! If they camp, they should lose and lose really badly! I'd go so far to say that if you hard facecamp the survivors should get an easy 4-man out because the strategy is so ineffective.
At the current moment, facecamping with most killers can get you a 2k with little effort and a 4k with survivors who throw to try and save their teammates. They made it take longer to do generators which gives chase killers more time to enjoy chases, but also makes camping more effective. They should do something that nerfs camping killers but doesn't effect chase killers.
Removing hook grabs and increasing the hook timer are both things that don't really effect chase killers. As a chase killer, I don't really care if they get the save in 5 seconds. In fact, that makes things easier for me as it gives them less time to do generators and gets me into a chase immediately. If they don't save for 70 seconds because they concentrate on generators, they've got a useless teammate who is stuck on the hook and I can camp at the 60 second mark to force the second stage or get an easy exchange.
Hook grabs are fun, but really only useful as a crutch for killers. The main problem is that a hook grab results in now camping two survivors.
Is there an argument for why camping is a good thing that a killer should do? I've mostly just heard, "It's required for the killer to win," and "I have no choice," which um... are less than convincing.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016475#Comment_3016475
This only happens if you have one person to unhook. If you have at least two people unhooking, it's nearly impossible for the camper to down the unhooker. One player takes a hit and zips away, while the other unhooks. The killer's recovery animation is too long to grab during this time and at most he may get two hits, but he won't get a down.
And that requires two healthy survivors, requires them to be off of gens, and requires them to be coordinated or understand that they need to be there in some way.
The end result is that 3 people are injured and all close to each other making mass slugging viable. Since all 3 survivors are close to you, you choose the one in the worst position, down them, repeat the process. Now the other survivors need to find each other to reset to do the same thing while still not doing generators. Eventually, they're on death hook.
If you've played both sides, it's pretty obvious that this is problematic.
The amount of skill to do something should be roughly equal to the counter play to that same thing. This is definitely not the case with camping.
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Honestly? I find this great. It's a bit ridiculous that I can run green or higher addons for every game of killer and never run out. Just every game with Nurse range and recharge and I get so many bloodpoints from BBQ that I'll never run out. Making it easier to unlock perks while lowering the number of bloodwebs so really good addons aren't just in every game is probably healthier for the game overall.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016605#Comment_3016605
"there's really nothing the survivors can do to change the enjoyment of the game for me"
You must play low MMR. In high MMR people do stuff like this:
- Throw pallets and spend a few seconds healing in front of each pallet, until they completely heal a health state. After you finally hit them again, they syringe and heal during chase.
- Perfectly Dead Hard every. single. time. Faking out rarely works for whatever reason.
- Everyone takes protection hits for each other making downs exceptionally difficult.
- Everyone has the magical ability to know what everyone else is doing at all times and where they are located. (Discord, the Fifth Perk Slot)
- Chases always take a minimum of Forever because no one makes mistakes.
- People using macros that flashes the flashlight 9999999 times per second, which could give you seizures if you are photosensitive.
Um, all of those are things I consider fun and increase my enjoyment of the game? Except the flashlight macros. I like when my opponents aren't potatoes and they are creative in ways I don't expect. I like when they use teamwork and outplay me. It gets boring to do the same mindgame over and over again, bait out the badly aimed dead hard to nowhere, and get an easy down.
But nice just assuming that because I like the game to be challenging and that I don't mind losing that must mean I play at low MMR. Also, even if I were, would that really invalidate my opinion? I said I don't really care if survivors do generators really fast. I just like to be in chases. If I'm getting matched with people way above my skill level to the point where it's frustrating, then I hit next game and let the matchmaking put me against someone new.
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@Mandy said:
The skill check is designed to be this size, it's not guaranteed that you will hit it every time (even the best players can occasionally miss a skill check) - with the reward being so big (getting out of the killers grasp), the skill check needs to be a bit smaller than a regular skill check for sure.
There are no plans to adjust the size of this.
This kind of ignores that skill checks aren't consistent on some platforms because of very bad optimization. If I play on PC, I can hit every difficult skill check easily. If I play on the Switch, the game randomly skips frames and lags and I can miss the skill check. It's not a skill issue. The game skips frames and doesn't run at a consistent 30 FPS. There's nothing I can do about that.
I've also played on Stadia and the same thing happens there. This game is, fortunately, available on many platforms. Unfortunately, some of them don't run so well. Being told, "get better" and "you're supposed to miss it sometimes when you're getting tunneled out of the game with one of the only anti-tunnel perks in the game" when the game itself causes you to miss the skill check is a bit tone deaf.
If this game ran at a consistent frame rate on all platforms at all times, this wouldn't be as big of a deal. It doesn't. BHVR has said they're going to work on that for years and I understand it's difficult and hasn't been done yet. Saying, "Yes we haven't done console optimization which causes the game to lag and makes you miss the skill check but the skill check needs to be small because it requires skill," is very confusing to hear.
Especially since those who are most likely to get tunneled, new players, are also most likely to miss the skill check.
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@roundpitt said:
If you make the game more rewarding when you don't camp, people will camp less. They are decreasing chase times, so you will likely see less camping. Because they won't need to camp you.
Chasing requires skill. Camping does not. If you get the same result from both of these, what do you think players will do?
Chasing is fun for both sides and is the most fun part of the game. Camping forces one survivor to be the designated loser while the others sit on generators. It is not fun for survivors.
This "they won't need to camp you" isn't going to stop someone from camping you because you didn't actually make it less rewarding. Survivors shouldn't have to only get a fulfilling game by the kindness of the killer's heart. If you haven't noticed, many of the people who play killer on this forum seem to believe that they are in the power role and so the game should automatically be won for them and that if we don't acquiesce to every silly demand they have, they will be "forced" to tunnel and camp.
They were going to tunnel and camp anyway because all they really cared about is winning and camping is still incredibly strong and gets you a lot of wins.
If you want to win, you should outplay your opponent and demonstrate some skill. Chasing demonstrates skill. Learning how to use a killer power in chase demonstrates skill. Macro decisions about who to chase and where demonstrate skill. Standing in front of a hooked survivor close enough that you can kiss them does not demonstrate skill. That last one is about as powerful as the previous ones and that's the problem.
"The camping will continue until my kill rate improves."
As a killer main who doesn't camp but gets camped very often when playing as survivor, I'd like that meta to shift. I'd like the game to not be complete ######### half the time based on the whims of the killer. Some games I get are really fun and fulfilling, but only if the killer specifically decides that game will be fun for me. When I play killer, there's really nothing the survivors can do to change the enjoyment of the game for me. Even if they do generators really quickly, I still get to chase and have fun in chases.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3014985#Comment_3014985
Are you really expecting the killers to get so many good buffs, so that fair play becomes much more viable, but then keep their hook defense strengths as is? Camping needs to be discouraged a lot, and removing the ability to grab an unhooking survivor is a must. The hook phase duration also needs to be increased from 60 to 90 seconds. There is no reason for killers to get easy, skillless wins by camping now that their normal gameplay is buffed noticeably.
"I need to camp to win" has always been a false choice. "If gens didn't go so quickly I could choose not to play in this specific way" doesn't actually have any discouragement for playing that way and now that strategy is more effective. The same people who said the above will still say the same thing and ask for more nerfs to survivors rather than acknowledge that maybe they should just play better.
Because apparently playing killer shouldn't require actual skill and this is a power fantasy rather than a casual PvP online game.
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@White_Owl said:
I think the "grab game" should stay, especially if survivors get built-in mini-Borrowed Time and can bodyblock preventing the killer from getting the unhooker. Unhooking a survivor should be dangerous and if you do it in the killer's face you must accept that you're most likely going on the hook.
Something to be clear about, the "grab game" isn't about whether or not unhooking is dangerous for the unhooker. I think everyone agrees it should be dangerous for the unhooker and lead to them being on the hook.
The "grab game" is about whether the survivor currently on the hook should stay on the hook which enables facecamping. The killer gets a free down and they camp the survivor who is already on the hook and likely now going to second stage/instadeath.
The only way to counter it is to try and bait the killer into hitting you when you fake it which is also inherently more based on latency than anything else.
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There's pretty much no downside to facecamping now. Generators take longer. Doing side objectives takes too much time. Hook states are still as quick as they were. Survivors still have to travel and find generators and if they don't do that incredibly quickly they won't complete the generators in time. Person being facecamped will also get frustrated and just give up.
It's a complete mess and will rely on killers being "kind" to avoid facecamping scenarios.
The grab game is nonsensical and isn't fun. It's also biased towards the killer because the survivor NEEDS to do the unhook before the hook state timer runs out. The killer can see that.
This doesn't even count perks or killer powers that can be effectively used for passive game slowdown. Artist brings corrupt, deadlock, and dead man's switch. Gets their first down which causes generators to be unblocked but most probably haven't been worked on very much. Throws the person on hook and DMS activates. Sends birds to scare people off of generators for 45 seconds and then sits down to facecamp. If she gets a grab, she drops them in front of the hook and goes back to facecamping. If she doesn't successfully play the grab game, she hook trades, scares people off of generators, and then DMS procs for 45 seconds on all generators. Deadlock ensures that the most progressed generator can't be worked on after one is completed. She will succeed at the grab game at least once with how many times it will be played.
Pinhead can do something similar. Probably run the same build. Someone has to get off to do the box which means they aren't doing a generator. If they don't, the box will make it impossible to do generators. Same story as above.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think the fairest way for this to happen is that;
If the survivor starts the animation, they get the unhook, but still get grabbed by the killer.
It would essentially become a hook trade. Which requires a lot more strategy for both sides.
The survivors have to try and maximize who goes for the sacrifice, who can hang on the longest in a camping scenario, while the killer has to decide whether to camp their new victim or pursue the one who just escaped.
I'd personally find this healthy too. Although I still think the killer should have to try to get the second hit. If you're going to camp, it should at least require a bit of skill.
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@SimplyPixelated06 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3014962#Comment_3014962
Idk, i just think if survivors shouldn't have a safe unhooking, then it's fair to say killer's shouldn't have a pretty easy time to get a kill or 2 hook states. I just feel like their original statement goes both ways.
This mostly encapsulates my thinking. When you're getting an unhook, the killer already has all of the advantages and they're going to get a free down. They shouldn't get two. If survivors coordinate well enough that they can prevent the unhooker from going down, they made a good play and should be rewarded.
This applies especially because they're nerfing the second chance perks that would have been used in this situation.
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Agreed. Time where a survivor is on the hook is time when they are not doing anything. Same reason slugging is so effective. Hook timer should just be base increased. There's absolutely no anti-camping measures included in this update that discourage facecamping. It only discourages tunneling off hook which is good in itself.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3014842#Comment_3014842
That's you. But the game is never over until it's over. Its on you and your team to get the bait hit and not mess up. Your hand shouldn't be held by not allowing hook grabs. It shouldn't be a free easy scenario for you. No matter what.
It's not a free easy scenario for you and many killers can still facecamp incredibly well with their powers! The survivor doing the unhook still gets punished and will go down almost immediately! And they nerfed the survivor perks that prevent that! The only thing you could really do was to take a hit, use the weapon cooldown to unhook, then dead hard away immediately.
But, in this update, we'll have the following:
Next, we’ve reduced the cooldown for successful basic attacks by 10% (now 2.7 seconds, previously 3 seconds) and reduced the duration of the Survivor’s speed boost upon being hit by 10% (now 1.8 seconds, was 2 seconds).
We also have:
There are two main ways Dead Hard is used: To dodge a hit and for distance (to get to a nearby pallet or window). In the latter case, there’s not much a Killer can do. Therefore, Dead Hard will now provide the Endurance effect for 1 second when activated. If you time it right, you’ll prevent the hit and gain a movement speed boost.
What other perks allow you to avoid the second hit? With the reduced cooldown, I'm not even sure if you can get the unhook anymore after taking this hit. If you can, you're almost certainly going down during it.
As a killer player myself, I'd like to have a challenge. I already explicitly avoid hook grabs when playing because I find them boring and too effective. When I'm playing survivor, I'd like to not have the killer's most effective tactic to be facecamping my friend.
You talk about EGC, but what happens when this is done at 3-5 gens left? Right at the beginning of the game? While generators now take 90 seconds instead of 80? How do I coordinate in a non 4 person SWF to have one other person come to help me get the unhook? Since I need to coordinate with a second person, does that mean that that person is not on a generator too? What skill is involved with standing in front of a person on the hook and facecamping them and how does it make a fun and engaging game?
I mentioned at the beginning that hook grabs are fun when you get them in some circumstances and they're exciting in those circumstances. They're not without any merit. They also create a nightmare situations when taken to an extreme that's incredibly easy to do and incredibly frustrating. And they can mostly be done on with every character. Characters like Artist and Pinhead are even more effective because they can put pressure on survivors from anywhere on the map.
Do you have an argument other than, "Survivors shouldn't get things for free" when they aren't getting things for free? It's still not easy. You're playing against latency not against the killer.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3014724#Comment_3014724
Guessing when they're faking the unhook is a skill though. Again. Not to mention the EGC complications. Im sorry. But if you CANT hook grab. That's just an easy forceed hit on the fake unhooker as they scamper off. While someone else gets the free unhook. At least if you can time it right and grab now. The 2nd person in position has to go down as well
Is it? It's incredibly biased towards the killer's side and mostly relies on latency. Having a better internet connection is the skill involved and otherwise it's just a 50/50. I personally don't view it as a skill but a high risk game that is mostly lose/lose for the survivor. If you get the hook grab, then free down and you can go back to facecamping. If you don't, you still got a hit and can get an easy second hit.
This is my personal opinion, but I think the idea that killers need to "secure a kill" and that unhooking during EGC should be difficult to impossible is a detriment to the game. If you're at EGC and there's multiple survivors ready to go for the save, you already lost and you should just accept it. I think that's just survivors playing well and that should be encouraged. Given an MMR system that is just kills/escape based, I think you'll get more accurate numbers when survivors can meaningfully make plays to save their teammates that aren't downright stupid strategically.
At the current moment, if you've got 3 people safe and 1 on hook, the better move is always to just leave and let the killer have his pity kill. The only thing that causes survivors not to do that is they play with friends and want to get that 4-man out. Hook grabs can turn a situation that, in my opinion, is already a loss for the killer, and instead turn it into a "win" because the survivors have attachments to their friends from outside of the game and are willing to die in the video game to try and get their friend out.
Again, I straight up believe the killer has already lost in this scenario. I don't think camping to "secure a kill" should be a thing. I think that's unhealthy for the game and I think it encourages a negative feedback loop for MMR. The game will consider you to have "beaten" the player on the hook who may have run you for 5 gens, but you then just facecamp and your team all leaves you so they can get their ez out.
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@BrokenSouI said:
Like it or not. It's still an important part of the game. You shouldn't have a free ez unhook if you're doing it in the killers face. Not to mention the EGC complications
Nobody is really talking about easy unhook. If you unhook in the killer's face, you should go down and be put on the hook next.
The problems caused by hook grabbing and that it's so appealing when doing tactics like facecamping is a problem. And since this is apparently important, I say this as a person who plays primarily killer. It's just too easy to stand next to the survivor while they're trying to get the unhook and wait for them to either leave (where you go back to facecamping and they lost valuable time), for them to attempt the save and for you to wait it out to get the hook grab (making it a free down and successful camping), or forcing multiple survivors off generators to body block to get the save (which is successful in its own right and hard to coordinate in solo queue).
It's one of the most unsavory aspects in this game and requires little to no skill from the killer beyond patience, but with a large amount of payoff. With the nerfing of survivor second chance perks, the choices to prevent this are also fewer in a field that was already pretty small.
Again, nobody is talking about "free ez unhook". We're talking about facecamping the survivor on the hook. I agree the person doing the unhook should go down, but it should require some amount of skill from the killer to do this. In this update, they'll have less cooldown from the successful attack AND the survivor will get less distance AND dead hard will no longer give distance and invincibility. Most killers should be able to get that second hit after the unhook pretty easily and otherwise the survivors had to do some really good teamwork to prevent that and they SHOULD be rewarded for good teamwork such as good body blocking.
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I think all 3 of those would be great. 1 would be best, but they've already said that a replay system would require rewriting the entire game from the ground up and that would be too much work and kill the game in the process of them doing it (as there would be no new content during that time).
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In all honesty because a lot of the people here who play killer want to play drunk and get an easy 4k at 5 gens.
That's what I hear when I hear, "I don't want to play sweaty." If you don't want to play sweaty, don't play sweaty! If I have a difficult match where I get outplayed and I could get 1 pity kill, I usually just let the person go.
SBMM also works best for those in the middle. You get the most variety and the most fair matches. If you're at the top or the bottom, you'll invariably get more biased matches because of how matchmaking works. People also don't seem to realize that they aren't 100% getting a match that's exactly tailored for them. The matchmaker will sometimes put you against people it knows you'll struggle with and it will sometimes do the opposite. That's just how matchmaking systems work.
RBMM made people believe they were better than they were at the game and set an unrealistic expectation that they should win most if not all of their matches and they seem to get whiny when this isn't the case. People also seem to treat this game as if losing means you're going to lose your chance at a lucrative competitive sports career for millions of dollars when the reality is that most of the "SWF's" you face are just friends chilling with each other.
And the strange part is killers still end up winning a majority of the time! The statistics say the kill rate is higher than 50% which means more killers are getting kills than survivors are surviving.
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She really just needs some small anti-loop or way to deal with pallets. Her mobility is decently good. And making condemned do more won't really help with her underlying problem.
I think the big difference from Dredge is that Dredge has some anti-loop, but his anti-loop has a lot of different options for counter play. You can run through the Remnant. You can bait the teleport. You can leave the loop. Each of these counter plays has its own counter play. You can cancel your power instead of teleporting. You can teleport to the new loop. You can bait leaving the loop by quickly using your power and then canceling it.
Another killer that has a similar anti-loop style is Artist. Artist's is too strong and doesn't have as much counter play. Leaving the loop is just much better than staying at the loop.
Sadako has basically nothing to do at a loop other than eat the pallet. Traveling through pallets would completely break the game though along with her stealth and mobility.
I think the focus has to be there.
My suggestion? Maybe one of these.
- Manifest/Demanifest are either faster or they do not affect your speed.
- Getting pallet stunned while demanifested gives an auto-spirit fury. Forces her to manifest. Does not work with Enduring.
- Maybe have manifesting leave a blinking husk while also keeping the existing blinking husk. Allow the ability button to be pushed to teleport yourself back to the husk. You can only perform the teleport while manifesting (so no holding it like Dredge).
That last one might be too similar to Dredge.
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Just in case, as a reminder, you can aim up with Victor to jump further. I think it's needed for this challenge.
There's also an add-on that makes Victor silent when you're charging a pounce. You can use that to get some snipes for people who aren't paying enough attention on gens.
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Yes they do and various developers play at different MMRs and being able to play the game at a certain level does not indicate whether they can balance it at that level. They can see the metrics, watch streams, and generally understand how high level gameplay works even if they don't play at that themselves.
Most don't play it publicly because just imagine the comments they would get if they were like, "BHVR developer plays DBD in public forum." It would be an endless stream of harassment. If they're playing the game on a stream, they're generally playing for fun outside of their work hours on a game they already spend 8 hours a day looking at.
For the specific points:
- Probably a very difficult bug. We don't know the details, but directional sound can be very hard and they might be working with older code that's not completely understood. Pretty common in software development.
- Not sure what you mean? Hatch is plenty loud.
- Doesn't really happen to me? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it happens to me so rarely that it's not a big deal. This is usually more common the newer the killer is. Killers who have been playing awhile learn to not care very much about hatch escapes and want to get to the next game ASAP too. The devs have said that they're generally ok with this because the bleedout timer ensures that the game will end at some point. For why the hatch is there, it's to avoid a situation where the survivor has absolutely no way of winning and is required to either choose to kill themselves or hide forever. Hatch gives the last survivor an alternative goal that's actually achievable and encourages them not to just hide for 30 minutes. Killer closes hatch and that powers the exit gates and EGC so the survivor still has something to do. The important part is that the match will end and it won't just result in a stalemate for half an hour.
- Not really sure what you mean by this? Why would the "ranking" only apply in the casual mode and MMR, the hidden one, only apply in the ranked mode? If they were to make a casual mode, both would likely have matchmaking with MMR. They've asked survey questions about it, but I haven't really heard a compelling difference between casual mode and ranked mode beyond, "I want a mode where I can play against people much worse than me so I don't have to try (sweat)." Which means that the other side is sweating? And it seems to be, "Matchmaking was so bad with ranks that it meant I got matched with those people who I didn't have to try against so that's my definition of casual." Which seems to be the primary motivator behind a casual mode with ranks because, if ranks worked correctly, that would make no sense! The ranks would be in the ranked mode and casual mode would have the MMR to ensure casual and fair matches. A casual mode would just generally encourage smurfing in the casual mode like every other game that does that. Most other games started integrating MMR in their casual modes in a response to people doing that and ruining the casual mode for newer players.
- New game modes are a lot more difficult than you would imagine. And then you have to balance that new game mode. I'd like other game modes too, but I'm not going to pretend it's easy.
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I feel it needs to be reminded again and again that higher/lower MMR are not rewards or punishments. They're solely intended to try and make sure your matches are fun.
If your matches are close, as is the goal of MMR, you should actually get more pips not less! If a survivor team absolutely runs the killer for 5 gens and not a single hook goes by, they get no altruism and probably not a good mix of the other emblems so they don't pip. If a killer doesn't hook anyone or hooks everyone too fast, they also don't get enough emblem points to pip. You get your highest pips from close games.
Also, with MMR, one match really isn't going to be that significant in changing your MMR. At the beginning of playing, your MMR will probably fluctuate a lot. As it gets more history about your results, each individual match will end up moving the dial only a small amount.
I agree with the premise of the thread. If someone escapes through the gate after the hatch is closed and the generators aren't done, it should be counted the same as the hatch as a NULL. But, this isn't because I don't want killers to be "punished" or survivors not to be "rewarded". I think it's because escaping through the gates after hatch is closed is close to a 50/50 and more dependent on the gate spawns than anything a player does. I don't have this data, but I suspect that you don't see people at high MMR with more gate exits after hatch is closed than people with lower MMR.
I've had gate spawns that are capable of being seen by standing in one spot. This type of spawn is literally impossible to escape from without a key to get hatch. I've also had spawns where they were across the map from each other with many line of sight blockers. This is mostly 50/50 if I guess where they were correctly. The situation is very similar to hatch.
I also sometimes want to give the last survivor hatch, but I don't want to wait for them to find hatch. If I find it first, I'll close the hatch to trigger EGC which forces them to the gate and then I let them out through the gate. I like that interaction, but I don't want the game to think, "Well you beat that killer so let's throw you into a harder match!" Seems unfair to them.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2981870#Comment_2981870
Grades don't work the same as the old emblem system. There's no deranking, and everyone resets back to the same starting point.
They also did this test right before a grade reset, meaning everyone that plays survivor somewhat regularly was stacked up at iri grades. This lead to a system more akin to random matchmaking than the old rank system.
A better test would have been to start few days to a week after a grade reset, where presumably, players would be the most spread out across the grades. Or just re-enable the emblem system to get a true test.
The way this test was performed almost seems like it was set up to fail, so they could tell us "see how much better our mmr system is?".
I played with Ranks too. Ranks didn't meaningfully go down with that system either. This idea that grades are substantially different because "with ranks you could derank". It was incredibly hard to derank. In order to derank, you basically had to not play the match. It was a constant source of complaints.
Emblems are a new Ranking Mechanic that was implemented with Patch 1.9.4 into Dead by Daylight . The Emblem System is a replacement for the Victory Cube for Killers and the old Bloodpoint-related Rank Mechanic for Survivors. A Player's Rank is now decided by their performance in a Trial and independent of the Bloodpoints they gained. Emblems replace the old Bloodpoint Category circles in the Ranking section of the Tally Screen. Successfully obtained Emblems come in four Qualities: Bronze, SilverThe pip requirements are the same so I can just link this. For rank 17-20, it was literally impossible to derank beyond rank reset. For ranks 9-17, you had to be mostly comatose in order to derank since getting 6+ emblem points could be done passed out drunk. Once you got to purple ranks, 5-8, it got a bit harder, but safety pipping was still easy at 8 emblem points. The only point where deranking even became a thing was at red ranks. Combined with how the system biases to +1/+2 pips for a lot of games and you ended up with a system where it was easier to rank up than it was to go back down. Adding to that, ranks only reset one color in the previous system so it was easier to go back to your previous rank on rank reset. This inevitably led to most players occupying red ranks which meant the entire matchmaking system had to operate within 4 ranks. In terms of matchmaking, there wasn't a meaningful difference between ranks and grades.
I mean this is such a common topic on the forums and it's strange because the rank system matchmaking was terrible. It's not like Otz got his 50 win streak only on the one day where they used grades and that wouldn't have ever happened with ranks if they had kept that system. He did that for about half of the killers in the rank-based system before they switched to MMR. When we talk about their experiment with grades I've heard people acting like they don't have years of data from the old system.
The developers have already read this exact thread a thousand times. Another thread saying the same thing is not going to change their minds.
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Oh another one of these threads.
A couple of months ago they turned off MMR for two days and used whatever grades people had acquired throughout the month. The matchmaking became so bad during those two days that Otz, a well known streamer who does kill streaks, immediately won 25 games in a row as Artist where he mostly didn't have to try. If you consider what this means, it means that he, not intentionally, bullied baby survivors for 25 games for a Youtube video.
Again, he didn't do this intentionally. But, that was the result.
Whenever MMR has been on, he has a very difficult time doing this. Based on just the experience of watching this, I think it shows that MMR does a much better job performing matchmaking than the rank-based system.
So you can argue about what "should" or "should not" count but the results tell the story by themselves.
If you believe that this is an OK state for a matchmaking system to produce, you and I have fundamentally different opinions about matchmaking. It seems the developers do not believe that the above is OK and have chosen to go with a system that, while not perfect, also does not produce the above.
And, I feel this is also important, a higher MMR has no reward. You don't get "rewarded" for surviving or getting a 4k beyond that those actions get you more pips and bloodpoints.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
I appreciate all of your responses, but I really hope that a *dev* gives an official statement on this. Logically, I wouldn't expect the prestige change to come out on the 7th, but you can never know for sure. If it does come out on the 7th, and BHVR was negligent on communicating that to us (it's possible), then I will miss out on the rewards for just a few characters that I could have P3-ed (I just need to hold the button) within 1 minute. And if the change comes out on the 16th, then unless I grind maniacally for a week, I won't get Haddie and the Dredge to P3.
A few months before the removal of Hawkins offerings, BHVR mentioned in a patch note that they would be removing them with the mid-chapter update or something, but not everyone read the patch notes carefully, nor did everyone remember about the removal. BHVR could have given us a heads up a few days prior to the Hawkins offering removal in-game and/or on Twitter, but they didn't. If I knew the offerings would have been removed, I would have used them all, 'cause I adore that map and it's a big shame I didn't get to enjoy it more before it was gone.
That's why I am concerned that BHVR will push this change without giving us a heads-up, and many of us are gonna be frustrated. The grind for P3 has been going on for a few years, and it's been a passion of mine, albeit exhausting at times.
Please BHVR, be transparent about this. <3
If that's your concern they have confirmed 100% it will not be on the 7th.
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They've been heavily implying that it's going to drop in the mid-chapter which makes sense as that's when this kind of stuff usually drops.
That's assuming it doesn't need to get pushed back.
Definitely not on June 7th though.
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It's not as much "rewards failure" as much as "just not very well designed in terms of counter play".
Most things in this game have counter play. Sometimes that counter play is just not well designed.
For Dead Hard, the problem is that the counter play is 50/50 and gets worse the better a survivor is. If you swing immediately, it has invincibility. If you wait to swing, they get close enough to a pallet they can dead hard through it. There's an area in between these where you can wait and a dead hard doesn't get them safely to the pallet, but it's still like a 50/50 at worst. It was badly designed for years, but they fixed Dead Hard by creating server side validation which brought the worst portions of the perk.
Good players with Dead Hard will both be able to run tiles AND Dead Hard at the appropriate time where the killer has to basically guess and, in some loops, just doesn't have an opportunity to counter play it at all. Bad players don't get this benefit because they don't know the proper time to use Dead Hard or they Dead Hard into a wall. The reason it doesn't really reward failure is because it does take some skill to use it in the problematic way and the "rewards failure" part has meaningful counter play. When it's used to reward failure, baiting does work.
The two perks are badly designed for different reasons, but you can also make the argument about NOED too. NOED does have counter play but it's just not well designed. You have to cleanse all 5 totems, without any indicator about what your teammates have done in solo queue, to counter play it? Against a killer who is decent, there's not really a lot of opportunity to waste your time on finding and cleansing 5 totems while your team is presently dying. If you try to cleanse it after the fact, you're on a pretty aggressive timer if you actually want to save your teammate and the killer could have hooked right next to NOED. Often, the best counter play is to just leave and sacrifice your teammate. Sure, counter play exists. It just feels ######### and requires you to do busywork for the possibility that a perk that may not even be there gets countered.
Anyone who plays survivor knows how bad it feels to have half your team die to NOED the same as anyone who plays killer knows how bad it feels to outplay a survivor just to have dead hard completely invalidate your mindgame. That's really just the problem. They're perks where the counter play is weak or ineffective and it just doesn't feel like your own gameplay matters much.
NOED also has the additional effect where I believe it biases MMR to not really work properly at low levels because you can camp a kill or two at the end so easily with it. This causes killers who shouldn't be getting kills (their MMR should go lower) to be counted as "wins" solely because of the perk. That's its own problem and Dead Hard doesn't really have that problem. Sure, Dead Hard will help you survive more often. But it won't clinch survival as much as NOED clinches a kill.
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@Nazzzak said:
I suspected it's related to the bp grind and how much bp earned affects our perception of a good (or balanced) game. Only because the description says bloodpoints have to be exact or no reward. But I'm probably way off.
My guess is that they want to find the exact match the survey is referencing so they can check your opponent's MMR values and see how it either matched with your perception or to learn some other conclusion.
The BP amounts have to be exact otherwise they won't be able to find it in their metrics. I'm guessing that's also why they ask for the cloud id but that doubles as how they send the rewards.
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Assuming you are actually getting only 0 to 1 kills every match and it isn't an exaggeration, then yes what you describe is fully possible based on what we know about the system.
First, it doesn't have a floor for your rating, but it does have a floor for the purposes of matchmaking. The exact numbers might not be correct, but imagine you have an MMR of 200 somehow. The floor is 1100. You still have a score of 200 but it will put you at 1100 for the purposes of matchmaking. This would be if you literally get zero kills over and over again against every single person you ever face for some large number of matches.
Second, your MMR score changes relative to your opponents. If your score is very low, matchmaking might not be able to find a game for you since matchmaking has a harder time at the top and bottom. It's best at the middle. Something like 70% of people are in the middle. If you get matched against people with higher ratings than you, your rating lowers, but not as quickly. The rating system may go, "Yea, I knew you were going to lose that one. Good attempt anyway!"