madminer95
madminer95
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@Munqaxus said:
Guys, you all seem to have forgotten that the "hook info" was added for Solo players. It's to even out solo play with SWFs. Killers don't have SWF, they play at the same level every time.
It's generally accepted that SWF communication imbalances the game. As quality of life adjustments are made to improve solo Survivor communication, logical corresponding counterbalances need to be made for killers to prevent killers experience being made miserable, further increasing Survivor queue times as less killers play.
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@twistedmonkey said:
They want killer to think about the strategy rather be handed the info.
You see two survivors and you don't know which has been hooked already you take a 50/50 chance. If you are given the info and do know who has been hooked then the optimal choice seems to be to go for the one who has been hooked (depending on looping skills of course). It removes a degree of thought process.
While most good killers know who have been hooked there are cases where one forgets and some of course would use it to go after the non hooked one for bbq stacks.
I don't quite understand why survivors need the same though process removed to be fair as it does remove some plays that can happen.
Survivors knowing can avoid running closer to the hooked area and sit on gens or at end game they know 100% to leave.
Personally I don't think it should be there for either side as I do not like too much info being handed to me and believe the game is at its most fun when we are having to think more as we play.
realistically the Dev's aren't going to take away the hook information from the Survivors now they've given it, with they're goal of bring solo play up to SWF level, so if they're going to as you say hand over the information to Survivors they should be doing the same to killers.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
What’s wrong with the UI now?
Like, does it affect your gameplay because you can’t remember who is on death hook and who’s not?
The UI now doesn't provide any useful information, at best its a pat on the back, at worst its a waste of screen space.
And it does actually affect game play, the more useful UI would:
- help with target prioritization in the end game where chasing the wrong survivor can easily result in not getting any kills.
- help prevent accidental tunneling (possibly caused by survivors using the exact same skin) so you could avoid eating a decisive strike.
- help prevent wasting Killer resources like The Pig's reverse bear traps on Survivors that are on death hook.
- while also taking up less of the killers FOV.
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@HellDescent said:
Killers don't deserve any qol improvements and they definitely don't have enough information to keep track of while playing vs 4 other people. Killer must remain miserable.
[sad killer noises]
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@bobateo said:
I suspect a part of the plan was also to start helping soloq in the form of giving more information. As to why not give the Killers the same information, that, I would think is a balance question. Information, how to get it, etc is a big part of this game. Giving one 'side' too much information use tilts the game balance in their favor and there's already a lot of information that Killers get without perks that survivors don't.
So, it's probably a small step in trying to improve soloq without giving away too much either to survivors or buffing the information Killers already have. If the impact is small but positive over a course of time, then it would be logical to consider whether or not to add it to Killers.
@sulaiman said:
To your last question. Simple, because it is meant to bring solo survivors closer to swf informationwise.
Currently, the game can never be balanced because there is a wide gap between random solo survivors without communication and swf with it.
Currently, if a killer is strong enough to handle swf, he is unfairly overpowered for solos, or if solos have a fair shoot at winning, leaving most killers at a disadvantage vs swf.
Closing that gap informationwise (and seeing how it plays out) might then allow better adjustment of power level between killers and survivor. Thats why it shouldnt apply to survivors.
Also, if i am not wrong, tunneling has nothing to do with "of the hook", but is exactly about going after the same survivor to kill him as fast as you can. Going for him after an unhook is just even easier.
And while you can do that of course, at the moment you dont know if you are against the claudette that has been hooked twice or if the claudette in front of you is the one you ddint see all game.
It's generally accepted that SWF communication imbalances the game. As quality of life adjustments are made to improve solo Survivor communication, logical corresponding counterbalances need to be made for killers to prevent killers experience being made miserable, further increasing Survivor queue times as less killers play.
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this Issue is still present in the 4.6.0 Player Test Build where The Blights animations have been adjusted to allow for the camera position to be higher up.
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@Gay_Police_Dept said:
A good reason to keep the UI in its current state would be to make you make the 5th post about the same topic. You've made 4 of them just in one month so far 👍️
Anyway, it's ok for survivors to have that extra information, it encourages them to work as a team. If you want the same information for everyone then just let survivors see gen and exit gates auras at all times too ;)
Nice, Make it sound like i'm spamming and throw in some false equivalence.
for the record these are the 4 posts with reasons:
- January 26, on the Q&A questions thread "In the new UI why do killers have a less useful total hooks widget vs the Survivors separated one?"
- February 5, in General, in response to the answer to the question "The hypocrisy in the "Why do Survivors get more hook info in the new UI than killers?" statement"
- February 12, in Feedback and Suggestions made the suggestion to "Buff the Killer Hook UI"
- this thread, made to challenge and discuss reasons given against giving killers the same UI
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
The only argument I've heard is that it would encourage tunneling, which I think is a bad reason. Killers will tunnel with or without hook counters. It takes no skill to remember hooks but is an unnecessary annoyance imo
and if the argument were that memory is a matter of skill, survivors should have to remember too.
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@Orion said:
Let's not be too hasty, maybe the Entity keeps him warm, we don't know.
@Todgeweiht said:
No. Let people have some eye candy for ######### sake!
no horny.
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@Chchchcheryl said:
I'm actually repulsed by this image. Thanks for ruining my day
@QwQw said:
That looks cursed.
your welcome.
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@Mr_K said:
Survivor gameplay is very demanding and you cannot expect them to keep track of every little thing that happens.
🤭
Ok I tried.
lol
In all seriousness though to add to this Survivors have 4x less perks to keep track of and only need to keep mental note of the killers general location, they have very little information they need to be keeping track in comparison to killers.
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i'll add to the main post if any new points are raised.
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I've referenced this in another post
@madminer95 said:
I made the suggestion here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/226933/buff-the-killer-hook-ui
But I've yet to hear a good reason against providing Killers the same hook information as Survivors.
for the sake of preventing repeat responses please fully read the suggestion post and i'll put points and counterpoints I've seen so far below.
Killers would use the information to tunnel.
A Killer inclined to tunnel is already told the Survivor they are hooking is dead on they're next hook by them beginning to struggle and the "entity summoned" score event.
Even if it wouldn't encourage tunneling it would encourage better target prioritization
Giving Survivors the hook state information allows them to effectively prioritize preventing the killer getting kills by body blocking and not wasting time hanging around for a save if the person being hooked is on death hook.
If memory of hook states is going to be lorded as part of a killer's general skill ceiling why shouldn't that also apply to survivors?
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@BenihimeWrath said:
Its not going to be changed and its not even really about tunneling specifically. Giving a killer the information of which hook states the survivors are on more easily allows them to effectively prioritize survivors for killing. This is not really tunneling per se, however it could be viewed as 'condoned tunneling' if the devs do increase the information about individual hooks. In essence, it would punish survivors that had poor starts to a match by increasing the odds they will be targeted at the 2-3 generator mark to relieve pressure on generators. Therefore, allowing it to be a built in part of a killer's general skill ceiling to keep track of which survivors are on death hook might be the most effective compromise.
Giving the Survivors the hook state information allows them to effectively prioritize preventing the killer getting kills by body blocking and not wasting time hanging around for a save if the person being hooked is on death hook. winch In essence punishes killers that had poor starts to a match by taking away the momentum they might gain from a potential kill or from someone not getting that head start.
If memory of hook states is going to be lorded as part of a killer's general skill ceiling why shouldn't that also apply to survivors?
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@madradfox said:
With the new UI I can't even tell when someone is getting actively chased, so OP's point is a bottom drawer type issue for me.
@madminer95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1962751#Comment_1962751
The UI's getting changed to be easier to look at and use in the next hotfix patch so your point's a little irrelevant.
While this might not be game-breaking and super high priority, it is an issue we should be discussing. As the Dev's try to bring solo queue up to SWF level stuff like this is only going to add up and make the killer experience worse if not counterbalanced.
And like i said, the UI's been changed to be easier to look at and use as of today.
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Giving killers the same hook UI as Survivors is still on my wish list of future changes
@madminer95 said:
Killers should have the same separated per Survivor hook UI widget as Survivors,
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" is completely illogical considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And for those who's definition of tunneling is off:
Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
The survivors hook widget lets them more easily prioritize who to give protection hits to, when to exit the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc etc.
In balance the same information should be given to the Killer so they can prioritize.
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Reduced the size of the Killer's hook count widget to be more in line with the other objectives.
Or better yet use the Survivor one as suggested and free up that screen space completely..
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@madradfox said:
With the new UI I can't even tell when someone is getting actively chased, so OP's point is a bottom drawer type issue for me.
The UI's getting changed to be easier to look at and use in the next hotfix patch so your point's a little irrelevant.
While this might not be game-breaking and super high priority, it is an issue we should be discussing. As the Dev's try to bring solo queue up to SWF level stuff like this is only going to add up and make the killer experience worse if not counterbalanced.
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feels bad knowing this is likely going to fall on deaf ears with all the other more game breaking stuff going on and how stubborn the Devs have been about feedback on the UI..
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@Johnny_XMan said:
If the devs actually cared about tunneling, they would create a built-in feature to counter rather than sticking it to a perk that one half way does the job. More so now with the announced changes.
its the good old BHVR way, optional band aid solutions to game breaking problems.
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@TheeclumsyNinja said:
Tunnelling will happen with or with out the killer seeing hook counter.
Especially with undying being nerfed into the ground.
If im going against a sweaty 4 stack and i need to slug people its gets easy to lose track of who i just down most of the match and who i actually hook sometimes.
Or at least have the hook counter track actual hooks and not just stages lol
if anything i'd see this reducing tunneling overall by preventing accidental tunneling as most killers try to avoid possibly getting hit with decisive strike.
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Same goes for generator's being completed hiding Survivors from Killers view ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@TreSen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1943786#Comment_1943786
Literally this.
If a killer isn't good enough to keep a general tab on survivors and their hook stages, then they're bad enough to think the "2 out of 3" means "tunnel the ######### out of this pheasant"
The one thing this game does not need is more incentive for shite killers to tunnel
A Killer inclined to tunnel is already told the Survivor they are hooking is dead on they're next hook by them beginning to struggle and the "entity summoned" score event.
the addition of a useful hook counter adds no additional information that would be useful to someone tunneling, it would just be good quality of life for those that don't, so they can prioritize targets later in the game and get better value out of powers (like pig's reverse bear traps)
And if your going to use remembering hook states is a matter of skill as reasoning, by the same reasoning survivors shouldn't be given that information as if a Survivor isn't good enough keep a general tab on their team mates hook stages they shouldn't be given that information freely that they could use to prevent the killer getting kills by giving protection hits for someone on death hook, exiting the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc.
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@BaldursGate2 said:
BHVR are really out of touch
yea, they think they're combating toxicity by not giving killer a useful hook counter because they think it would promote tunneling,
but think its fine when talking about the new animations to promote that "you can still teabag" rather than just saying crouch speeds will be unaffected.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Personally speaking if they intend the Hook counter to be a kind of feel-good indicator if Survivors escape, it's less effective than the Survivors Hook Counter
As a Survivor, when you see that all of you have full tally's and everyone is on death hook, 100% of the marks are filled, it feels like a close game, even if you all escaped.
As a Killer, once you reach that point mentioned above, the current Hook counter only shows that you're 2/3 of the way done. You earned a 66%, a failing grade.
In the same train of thought if you decide to camp, even knowing that it's a losing strategy, and also get one or two hooks, you see that you still got near a 45% (4-5 Hook states). Rather than only 1/4 + some change.
That's something i hadn't thought about, seeing 4 survivors with two notches would be much more gratifying than seeing 66% of the total hooks widget full.
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@vladspellbinder said:
A tunnler will always tunnel, it is their nature. Giving them easy access to the info won't make a big difference in the game. If they are really dead-set on tunneling someone they can also just count the hooks themselves.
Yes, there being hook status per Survivor viable by the Killer will encourage people with the tendency to tunnel to do so more often and make it a bit easier but Survivors can play around it because they have the same information. When someone is dead on hook don't go for a risky save on them, and when you do save them don't just leave, stick around to provide some protection.
The main reason a lot of Killer Mains or even Occasional Killers want individual hook status is we don't want to sacrifice anyone, but not always to the point of caring enough to mentally keep track of it when we have so much else to keep track of. I had three games tonight where I got my Hook Count to eight and couldn't remember who it was I hadn't second hooked and in one of them I had already forgotten who I had hooked last out of three people because I'd been in a long chase with someone. That game and one other I found and hooked someone dead-on-hook before second hooking the last person. Neither game did I want to sacrifice anyone but nope, I forgot so sorry for your 5k BP you won't get now because people are worried about giving the [bad word]s more info.
Having the individual hook counts will also help prevent accidental tunneling when people run the same character. One of my games tonight I had two Davids, had hooked but but couldn't remember what his outfit had been. Wound up hooking the same one again but thankfully they had both been together so now I knew what the other one was wearing. Another game I had two Dwights and two Megs, with the Megs both being default with no charms and both with medkits. Literally no way to tell them apart at a glance. I hooked one super early because she got super cocky at a pallet (drop them people!) so later in the game I had already forgotten which position she'd been in. Thankfully I wound up hooking the other Meg first before that one a second time.
Really the reasoning of "It'll make tunneling easier" is just, really weak. Yes, it will, but it will also make it so much easier for the Killer's that just want to two hook everyone do that without putting extra stress on their brains. We're already trying to deal with so much going on and making the game actually fun having one less thing to keep track of will be nice.
This. "It'll make tunneling easier" really is a weak excuse.
I don't even think the per Survivor Hook widget would encourage people with the tendency to tunnel to tunnel more often.
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I'd rather Killers have the same hook UI widget as Survivors
@madminer95 said:
Killers should have the same separated per Survivor hook UI widget as Survivors,
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" is completely illogical considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And for those who's definition of tunneling is off:
Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
The survivors hook widget lets them more easily prioritize who to give protection hits to, when to exit the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc etc.
In balance the same information should be given to the Killer so they can prioritize.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1944728#Comment_1944728
When talking about what players will or will not do you take a look at how out of place it would be to do whatever we are talking about and in this case it is tunneling from seeing a survivor and looking at their hook state to see if they are dead. Now how out of place or even how difficult would it be to make the decision to tunnel that survivor if say you could chase any the four, obviously it is a pretty easy decision to make and nearly all killers will choose to kill the survivor dead on hook.
As for the survivors your right they should know what hook stage the other three are at but that is way more difficult then keeping track as a killer. However using that logic then there is no reason for them to even add a hook counter in the first place but since they did they took the reasonable approach that helps solo players and gives killers a indicator on how well in the match they are doing.
Regardless you can't say players wont tunnel whatever the definition may be and it's clear the devs agree with that line of thinking and i highly doubt they will change their minds.
You still seem to be missing my point that a Killer inclined to tunnel is already told the Survivor they are hooking is dead on they're next hook by them beginning to struggle and the "entity summoned" score event.
the addition of a useful hook counter adds no additional information that would be useful to someone tunneling, it would just be good quality of life for those that don't, so they can prioritize targets later in the game and get better value out of powers (like pig's reverse bear traps)
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@AChaoticKiller said:
if a killer sees a survivor dead on hook they will tunnel them
also just count hooks yourself it's not that hard but i don't want a visual indicator saying "hey you should tunnel this guy so one less is in the game".
If they do change it to that i wouldn't care too much anyway but based on the fact that it counts total hooks instead i think the devs agree with that line of thinking above.
if a killer sees a survivor dead on hook they will tunnel them
either:
A) not all killers tunnel, even if sometimes only to avoid getting hit with decisive strike
B) your definition of tunneling might be off: Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling. The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
just count hooks yourself it's not that hard
in that case, Survivors should just remember they're team mates hooks and not have a Visual indicator saying "hey you should take a hit/down for this guy so the killer doesn't get a kill"
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391 votes and 73 comments so far on Reddit
At least r/deadbydaylight seems to mostly agree.
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if there is a legitimate reason against the points I've made i'd love to hear the rebuttal,
but as of yet the only responses I've seen have said it would encourage tunneling without a good explanation behind it.
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@Peanits could you please give a comment on this?
Not only would this UI change be good quality of life for killers but it would go a ways to declutter the UI.
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Made a corresponding suggestion post.
@madminer95 said:
Killers should have the same separated per Survivor hook UI widget as Survivors,
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" is completely illogical considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And for those who's definition of tunneling is off:
Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
The survivors hook widget lets them more easily prioritize who to give protection hits to, when to exit the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc etc.
In balance the same information should be given to the Killer so they can prioritize.
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@madminer95 said:
Killers should have the same separated per Survivor hook UI widget as Survivors,
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" is completely illogical considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And for those who's definition of tunneling is off:
Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
The survivors hook widget lets them more easily prioritize who to give protection hits to, when to exit the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc etc.
In balance the same information should be given to the Killer so they can prioritize.
I'm going to keep banging this drum.
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@Kebek said:
Devs wanted to give survivors more information about hook stages but when debating if they should give it to killers as well, someone said "No, they would use it for tunneling" and so we got pointless hook counter insted so that we can't say we didn't get anything.
It exists purely to stop us from complaining / asking for what survivors have as it doesn't give any information that would justify its existence.
somebody said "no, they would use it for tunneling" without actually thinking about it properly, it wouldn't encourage tunneling as those that are inclined to tunnel already have all the information they need to do it, it would likely reduce tunneling overall because people wouldn't accidentally tunnel.
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relevant meme.
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Been discussing this for a while, the dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" which seems completely illogical to me considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
@madminer95 said:
So survivors are being given a separated hook widget to let them know when to take hits to prevent someone on death hook going down or to prevent them wasting time running to unhook if someone's on death hook.
But killers are being denied the same information with the excuse that it "would encourage tunneling" despite actual tunneling wouldn't be effected because a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them.
in that same conversation they state they don't see tunneling as an issue, they see it as a valid tactic.
this really begs the question why should a killer have to remember each survivors hook state but the survivors be given that information freely?
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@jrinkwater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1932206#Comment_1932206
It's not that a killer who tunnels will tunnel, we can't have balance or QOL changes based on that.
What people are asking for is to KNOW with certainty what hook a survivor is on. That is another part of this game that will groom players to tunnel.
i'm really not sure if your point just makes no sense or if your definition of tunneling is wrong,
https://youtu.be/dEPArrf1BgoBeing solely focused off of hook like that is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization.
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Killers should be given the same hook count widget as Survivors.
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" seems completely illogical to me considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
@madminer95 said:
So survivors are being given a separated hook widget to let them know when to take hits to prevent someone on death hook going down or to prevent them wasting time running to unhook if someone's on death hook.
But killers are being denied the same information with the excuse that it "would encourage tunneling" despite actual tunneling wouldn't be effected because a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them.
in that same conversation they state they don't see tunneling as an issue, they see it as a valid tactic.
this really begs the question why should a killer have to remember each survivors hook state but the survivors be given that information freely?
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Killers really should just have the same separated hook UI as Survivors.
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" seems completely illogical to me considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
@madminer95 said:
So survivors are being given a separated hook widget to let them know when to take hits to prevent someone on death hook going down or to prevent them wasting time running to unhook if someone's on death hook.
But killers are being denied the same information with the excuse that it "would encourage tunneling" despite actual tunneling wouldn't be effected because a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them.
in that same conversation they state they don't see tunneling as an issue, they see it as a valid tactic.
this really begs the question why should a killer have to remember each survivors hook state but the survivors be given that information freely?
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@rats00 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1926815#Comment_1926815
Okay? I really don't know what your talking about.
All I said was it's not a big deal the killer doesn't have the same hook counter because it's easy to keep track mentally, even while I'm stoned.
I dont have any intrest in the pointless tunnel arguments.
I think the point they're trying to make is if it's so easy to keep track mentally, why not have it displayed on the UI?
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@jrinkwater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1930693#Comment_1930693
Okay sure. Any information given to the killer to promote them to finish someone off, should not be given to the killer. Knowing a survivor is about to be on their third hook can often times create an objective to specifically play a different way, or out of the way, to remove a survivor from the game. The guess work of the killer to prioritized out of position survivors would get challenged. When a killer is pressured, it's going to take some skill to remember who was hooked, how many times, and what needs to be done. Seeing "oh Jane is on her third hook" just places targets unnecessarily. Also in a sense... grooms decisions.
This game already encourages killing versus hooking through the lack of "punishment"... Which I think the hook counter was created to try and influence more hooking. (failed attempt in execution) If the hook counter would simply reflect each hook you actually do, it would be much better for the overall health of the game.
Hopefully I explained myself well enough to defend my point. I am in the waiting screen to begin a game.
Have to disagree with your reasoning here, as a killer your told a survivor is on they're third hook as soon as you hook them and they immediately go into the struggle phase.
any killer inclined to tunnel will still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
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Been discussing the lack of separate hook information for a while and i have to agree that if they're not going to change they're mind they should give the option to turn it off.
But i would rather they just give killers the same hook widget as survivors,
The dev's comments of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" seems completely illogical to me considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
@madminer95 said:
So survivors are being given a separated hook widget to let them know when to take hits to prevent someone on death hook going down or to prevent them wasting time running to unhook if someone's on death hook.
But killers are being denied the same information with the excuse that it "would encourage tunneling" despite actual tunneling wouldn't be effected because a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them.
in that same conversation they state they don't see tunneling as an issue, they see it as a valid tactic.
this really begs the question why should a killer have to remember each survivors hook state but the survivors be given that information freely?
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@jrinkwater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1929754#Comment_1929754
It would indeed encourage tunneling.
Killers just need to either be able to turn this new one OFF or be able to see actual hooks, and not counting ALL hook stages
Care to explain your reasoning why you think it would encourage tunneling?
so far I've seen a lot of people calming it would without any good explanations.
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This is still an issue after patch 4.5.0
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@Starr43 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1929548#Comment_1929548
The killer knowing how many times a specific survivor has been hooked obviously makes more sense and would be useful but the arguments I’ve seen against that version is that it could potentially encourage killers to tunnel that survivor. If a killer wasn’t paying attention or forgot who they’ve hooked then they’re less likely to target a specific survivor. Free info like that for a killer with their head in the clouds can heavily favour them.
A separated hook counter for killers wouldn't encourage tunneling because if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And the point about killers that would normally forget gaining an advantage could just as easily be flipped for survivors. now Survivors have free info on when it might be necessary to take a hit for someone on death hook or not waste time hanging around to try save someone if they're about to immediately die without needing to pay attention.
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I'd rather they just give killers the Survivor hook widget.
@madminer95 said:
So survivors are being given a separated hook widget to let them know when to take hits to prevent someone on death hook going down or to prevent them wasting time running to unhook if someone's on death hook.
But killers are being denied the same information with the excuse that it "would encourage tunneling" despite actual tunneling wouldn't be effected because a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them.
in that same conversation they state they don't see tunneling as an issue, they see it as a valid tactic.
this really begs the question why should a killer have to remember each survivors hook state but the survivors be given that information freely?
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And there's an ungodly amount of breakable doors that you have to spend time breaking just to be able to traverse the map.
lost two gens back to back where i approached from a side with a breakable door and they finished the gen while i was busy breaking it.
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just played my first game with the new ui, not only is the killer hook widget useless its a screen hog.
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Been discussing this for a while, the dev's comment on it was "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" which seems completely illogical to me considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
@madminer95 said:
So survivors are being given a separated hook widget to let them know when to take hits to prevent someone on death hook going down or to prevent them wasting time running to unhook if someone's on death hook.
But killers are being denied the same information with the excuse that it "would encourage tunneling" despite actual tunneling wouldn't be effected because a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them.
in that same conversation they state they don't see tunneling as an issue, they see it as a valid tactic.
this really begs the question why should a killer have to remember each survivors hook state but the survivors be given that information freely?