jesterkind
jesterkind
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It's not quite so dramatic that he can't use his power at all but it's definitely a problem, he needs some future-proofing to help him keep up as the maps get more visually diverse.
I've said it before, but the Tar Bottle should be repurposed into an addon that gives map-specific camouflage. As more varied maps get added, that might have to just become basekit, but right now it'd be nice insurance against getting a map that Trapper's bear traps stick out on, like Eyrie of Crows, Coldwind, and Gideon's.
For those who want some tips- traps don't have to be hidden to be tripped in chase, they just have to have not been seen. Trap the outside of some loops, trap some vault spots and the main structure, and try to be far more active instead of doing a lot of prep work.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758477#Comment_2758477
I honestly don’t know, I only really play killer. If all it shows is a Bless icon though that’s not enough info for a solo survivor, they’d have no idea which Boon it is they’re inside of.
It definitely shows you which boon is active when you first step in there, I've noticed that much. It's just that after that, much like the initial Hex notification, it becomes a single icon after the name of the perk fades out.
I think, anyway. Even when I play survivor most players just bring CoH lmao
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Old Undying was a problem. You don't fix current problems by bringing back old ones.
Also, I don't see how old Undying would actually help? Wouldn't it still require there be dulls to bounce to, which there's less likely to be if everyone's blessing?
And if not everyone is blessing, then just current Undying will help protect your hex from the guy who is...?
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Therapist: Wide Laurie isn't real, she can't hurt you.
Wide Laurie:
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758201#Comment_2758201
Doesn’t the HUD show what buffs you’re getting on the right side?
I don't play that much survivor- my understanding is that it'd show you which boon it is when you first step in, but after that it's just a single "bless" icon, like the "cursed" icon for a hex?
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While this isn't a terrible idea, I think the reason that isn't the way it is right now is because it'd be kind of unintuitive and difficult to gauge from the survivor side where a specific effect is active if you're bringing more than one boon totem perk at the same time.
That's not to say this is unworkable, I just think the UI would also have to be tweaked, either to show a series of borders in the overlay or just have more of a specific icon for which boon is affecting you at any given moment.
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It was obviously a good idea and this implementation is already better than the emblem system was, so I see no reason why it should be removed.
With a round of tweaks for consistency it'll be just fine.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757436#Comment_2757436
Remove the wiggle buff and pointless nerfs to killers and we can talk.
No one was requesting a buff to wiggle speed time besides the people who want free wins. Yeah man, devs are sure in touch when they nerf clown instead of COH and DH. LMAO
Oh my god.
Seriously? This is how it is, now? If a patch isn't 100% perfect, it gets complete derision and scorn no matter how many good things are in it?
I agree that some of the addon nerfs were pretty unnecessary, and I have my doubts about whether it should be theoretically possible to shave a second off the wiggle timer even if it's not consistently achievable, but those two things do not even remotely counteract how good and necessary the rest of this patch is.
This community seriously needs some perspective, I swear.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757419#Comment_2757419
I mean I'm not going to be touching this patch as it has nothing of interest and shows the devs are out of touch. It's a boring patch and expecting people to be excited for it is strange. It might as well not come out. Especially since almost all the changes are bad such as clown nerfs and the wiggle buff.
...The balance changes are pretty bad. The addon ones, anyway. Everything that isn't an addon balance change - of which there's quite a lot - is actually very good, and a fair amount of it is things the community has been asking for.
I'm honestly kind of stunned at how many people seemingly don't recognise when they're actually getting what they want. Wiggle mechanic changes, Nurse fixes, security fixes, DH validation fixes, even an attempt at shortening patch download times... people wanted these, but apparently when they get them the patch is "boring" and "shows the devs are out of touch". It's seriously baffling.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
DMS buff, boil over buff, Clown, Twins and Nemesis nerfed for no real reason. Very mediocre/near useless Bubba buffs. Removal of some content (The Bubba masks. You get some shards if you had them unlocked.) Buff to wiggling for some reason. New wiggle "skill"checks. Pinhead voicelines, nurse bug fixes.
That's about everything. Genuinely a very very lackluster patch IMO. I mean even Otz was upset by it. It's weird when we get stuff like this midchapter which is just devoid of hype or anything interesting. But then we get some midchapters that are FULL of tons of stuff, possibly even total map redesigns or huge changes to killers. This one kind of lacks anything really notable or great. It's not even just a dislike of the changes. Even if the changes were in the direction I liked, it's still not a very noteworthy patch when we've had midchapter patches that totally change how a killer plays, or basically gives us 5 newly redesigned maps.
Really? I'd consider a huge rewrite of a killer's entire base code to fix a notoriously huge number of bugs, a long-requested change to the wiggle mechanic, a nice accessibility change for continuous actions like generator repair, the addition of Doug Bradley voice lines, even more hotly requested security fixes, and a bunch of balance changes a pretty respectable patch, myself.
Not every patch is going to have something "exciting" in it, sometimes it's just a suite of necessary, boring, run-of-the-mill fixes and changes for the game's health. It's a good patch, this is what they should be doing more often- with the one difference that the balance changes should be better ones lol
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@Chimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757325#Comment_2757325
I saw in another thread that bubba is getting a buff, can you tell me the specifics of that?
Some of Bubba's addons are being buffed- the ones that inflict a -4% chainsaw sweep speed are having it reduced to a -2%, the other iridescent has the maximum tantrum duration lowered to five seconds instead of eight, and the yellow tantrum threshold addon is being increased to +2 seconds, which seems to be the same as the green one so I'm not sure what's going on there.
@chimera3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757325#Comment_2757325
Besides the Twin nerfs
There are a handful of nerfs I don't agree with but it's overall a very decent patch.
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@Chimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757261#Comment_2757261
Thanks for the info
No problem man. It's shaping up to be a pretty decent patch, in my opinion.
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Nemesis is such a fun killer, even when you don't get the dream team zombie coordination he just has such satisfying animations and audio cues.
I think my favourite zombie tag-team situation was the one time on Haddonfield, at one of those car loops, where an infected survivor was looping me- but I saw the zombie moving into position, so I reversed what direction I was running the loop, so the zombie could hit the survivor, the survivor then rocketed to the pallet to vault it... right into my fist.
It's so satisfying.
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A lot of things that you're not really going to notice as it's not a flashy balance change- some updates to the game's security, a massive rewrite for Nurse's code to help fix all of her bugs, the change to the wiggle system (mostly just a difference in how you interact with it, but if you're absolutely perfect you can shave one second off your wiggle time), the ability to press M1 to start a generator/heal without needing to hold it down...
In terms of balance changes, you've got a handful of decent perk changes and one really good change for each side- Dead Man's Switch gets a huge buff, and Boil Over gets a huge buff.
Some killer addons got changed, mostly buffs to bad addons but a few kinda weird nerfs. Most notably, Clown's exposed iri now lowers your max bottles as a downside.
I think that's everything? There's quite a lot this time, so I might've missed a few things.
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I'd love some more from the series at large, even if it's a bit of a pipe dream. Myers at the end of Halloween 2 would be great- with the shot out eyes and some burn marks, something like that.
But yeah, those from the first movie would also be great.
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It's categorically better, with no possible way to deny that. Anyone who claims the game has gotten worse is just blinded by their own personal pet issue- whether it's completely misplacing their annoyance onto the MMR system, or more accurately focusing on problem perks, unbalanced maps, or other actual issues, they can't quite see how much better the game has gotten because they're too caught up in whatever their biggest issue is.
The absolute best period of the game, ever (at least as far as I can gather from old footage from before I started playing lol), was the brief window after Mikaela was introduced but when CoH was killswitched. That was an excellent window of time, and shows just how much better things have gotten- but then CoH was re-enabled, and it becomes the only thing some people can see.
The game still has issues but it's been slowly fixing and improving them over the years. Nothing's actually set them back any, it's still been an overall positive trend.
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Makes sense in a lore sense. My understanding is that the Entity makes imperfect replicas of places it takes people from, and can't ever quite get it right. It's why the tiles randomise, it's why most maps have a brick wall around them, it's why the map starts to crumble after the exit gates open...
I like it. Repeated trees is a nice visual signifier of a place being fake.
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@Kill_Yr_Idol83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756125#Comment_2756125
Again, it seems like everyone's response is under the assumption that I'm speaking towards having easier matches or stomping on newbies. It's not news that SBMM is completely broken for killers and I'm wondering if I'm talking to survivor mains at this point.
Not really, I've only just started playing survivor myself- been playing almost exclusively Killer before then.
The SBMM isn't completely broken, it's just not very good. At the very least, it's far more consistent than the emblem system was.
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While people abusing a system for nefarious purposes (in this case, stomping newbies) is a concern, a decaying MMR is a very normal, standard mechanic- I was honestly very slightly taken aback that this implementation didn't actually have it built in when it was launched, more than being worried at them announcing it as a plan.
People who misplace their displeasure with the game's balance onto MMR are going to be trying to lower that number anyway, so I don't really see that as a viable reason not to implement a pretty sane, normal addition to the system.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756091#Comment_2756091
My tone isn't as aggressive as yours in the quoted post...
"Yeah, this is where you're wrong, which I somewhat expected based on your previous message."
I respond in kind. Come at me aggressive, I come at you aggressive.
I wouldn't consider that aggressive, though, for the record. Maybe condescending I'd give you, if you wanted to be a bit uncharitable, but surely it's to be expected when you're having a disagreement with someone that you'd think they're wrong? Later in the thread got far more heated than that.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755653#Comment_2755653
So you're just ignoring the most powerful part of Shadow Step in your analysis? It completely blocks aura reading! The sheer number of perks/addons that nullifies is insane, especially given that Shadow Step effectively gives all 4 survivors both Lucky Break and unlimited Distortion in the boon area, which has already been pointed out is stunningly large especially if you get a map like Midwich or RPD.
If you're going to list the effects on paper for the purposes of discussion, how about listing all of them?
Pretty aggressive tone there, bud.
You're right, though- the aura reading is actually the stronger part, and might be something worth looking at once general boon mechanics and CoH specifically are reigned in. Of course, it may be that after looking into it, the result is "nah, nothing needs doing", because it's not as though Shadow Step is an OP nightmare of a perk right now before any of that is done.
It's an annoyance on cramped indoor maps, but even then it's not OP, just annoying.
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Huh, I didn't catch that. That's a little weird, I wonder if there's supposed to be a buff to The Grease that was overlooked and not included or something?
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755779#Comment_2755779
As I said, Pentimento would become OP if killers could break boon totems to spawn it in themselves.
Except they would not be, because they would be spawning it over a Boon totem, meaning:
- Survivors would have to Boon a totem
- Killers would have to FIND the Boon totem, which takes time out of chases/gen pressure.
- Killers would have to Snuff the boon totem.
- Killers would then have to apply Penti.
- Survivors can still Cleanse or Boon a Penti totem, as far as I am aware, so it's not like it becomes untouchable.
The whole chain still relies on Survivors bringing a boon in the first place. ANd then relies on Survivors not removing or Booning it away again.
You seem unable to understand, or admit, that the entire chain is Survivor-reliant, and just want to pretend Penti would become this unstoppable juggernaut while ignoring that's it's LITERALLY FREAKING USELESS RIGHT NOW because Survivors never have too, and actually DO NOT WANT TO EVER cleanse.
Penti relies on an action that will never happen; Cleansing. So why not make it rely on an action that CAN happen, but is still Survivor-based; Boons. By letting Killers break Boon totems.
Sorry but your 'Penti would be OP' argument holds 0 water. You're acting like Killers would spawn all 5 stacks unopposed & at will.
Alright, I guess we are going to have to talk about Pentimento despite it not being what this topic is about...
Right now, Pentimento is not useless. Survivors do still cleanse sometimes, though it's not reliable so you can't go in without any other tools- and there are tools! Here's how you make Pentimento useful: Plaything, Thrill of the Hunt, and your impact hex of choice, likely Ruin. If you're good at hooking survivors fairly quickly, they'll get a personal hex only they can cleanse, and if they have a boon, they'll either be spending nearly a full minute blessing it, or they'll be breaking it. Either way, your build gives you value.
Now if we want to talk about whether a perk that relies so heavily on one or two other perks to work is a well designed one, that's a different topic, but since so much of what you're saying hinges on me """"ignoring"""" the """fact""" that Pentimento is useless, I might as well delve into it and quickly remind you that it's not, it's just not as strong as its number values might imply.
Which is irrelevant, because again, Pentimento is only a minor point. I've gone over multiple other reasons why breaking boons is a bad idea but this is apparently the only one you want to focus on.
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@Wulfasger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755779#Comment_2755779
Killers would be able to break totems only if they are "blessed". And solution of your point for pentimento is easy. Call Killers totem break action is "break" and make pentimento only works for "cleansed" totems, not for broken ones.
That would solve that issue for breaking boon totems, but not the rest of the issues that suggestion has.
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I wouldn't assume so, my understanding is they use random killers for things like this most of the time.
Not sure I'd call this most recent midchapter an "absolute disappointment" either lol
That being said, I do hope they can shed some light on how far along the Legion/Ghostface changes are, or if they've decided to switch tracks to something else.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755759#Comment_2755759
Then you are ignoring WHY Killers should be able to break boons. You're arguing in a vacuum to ignore how the game actually works, to support your own view point.
Penti is exactly WHY Killers should be able to break Boons. If Penti did not exist, or did not have the frankly STUPID requirement of needing Cleansed totems; your argument would have more weight.
But Penti does exist, and is exactly why Killers need to be able to make a source of Cleansed totems, since Survivors no longer have that drive to Cleanse, thanks to Boons.
As I said, Pentimento would become OP if killers could break boon totems to spawn it in themselves. The number debuffs it provides are insanely high, and I imagine that's at least partially because it's going to be hard to actually get more than one stack off it.
My argument would have weight regardless, but Pentimento definitely helps.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755738#Comment_2755738
Fair enough on all of it, but you're ignoring that Hex: Penti is literally irrelevant because it requires an action that Boons have all but rendered obsolete. It's, literally, useless as it is, because Survivors don't have 0 reasons to cleanse; they actually have reasons to NEVER cleanse: Boons.
So it requires an action that asks Survivors to work against their own self-interest. It's the dumbest thing ever added to the game, hands down.
I'm ignoring that because it's off topic. This isn't a thread about Pentimento- if we find each other on a thread like that, I'll be happy to talk about it. Right now, I'm focusing on the topic at hand, which is balancing boons and whether the killer should be able to break them.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755718#Comment_2755718
I'm not here to talk about how to handle Pentimento, I'm here to talk about boon totems and why the killer being able to break them is a bad idea.
Except
Pentimento is the biggest reason killers shouldn't be able to destroy totems.
Un-huh....
So...Why is it a bad idea, outside of Hex: Penti? Why is the Killer being able to stop Boons permanently a bad idea? Other than 'Broken Boon perks will be less broken'?
Why is it a bad idea to let the Killer spend some time to ensure a Boon can be re-lit in 14 seconds? All 3 boons are powerful enough, game-changing enough, to warrent this.
I... you want me to repeat all my arguments again, is that it? Because you didn't really address them the first time around, but I guess I can condense them down a little bit...
1: Boon perks as a whole aren't broken. One of them is pretty well balanced, one of them is actively weak, and the last one is the one that's broken. Hard nerfing boon totems as a mechanic makes CoH less annoying but obliterates the other two as unfair collateral damage.
2: Boon totems are not designed in the same way as hexes. They're supposed to be relightable at the cost of being a timesink away from generators, and since that's a very good concept it should be propped up and not discarded.
2a: Hexes are weak and need work. The answer to this is to tweak hexes, not drag boons down to also be weak, underwhelming, and in hneed of work.
3: Pentimento is only relevant insofar as it would become OP if killers could break boon totems. I'm just not here to talk about the relative strength of that perk right now.
Pretty sure that's most of it, if you want the more eloquent versions you can go reread the messages I've already written.
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I like the idea of gate regression but I think it might be too punishing to have them regress all the way- I'd say have them naturally regress down to about 80% completed over a moderate amount of time, so survivors can still orchestrate a late game save without being able to literally just tap the gate to open it once they get back.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755704#Comment_2755704
Pentimento is the biggest reason killers shouldn't be able to destroy totems
Then tell me how Penti will work? Because Survivors have 0 reasons to Cleanse totems anymore. Ruin? Override it with a Boon. NoED? Wait for it to pop; override it with a Boon.
At least letting Killers destroy Boons means he can only apply Penti if he finds a Boon. It's not like he can place it at will. You seem to think the Killer will be able to Penti every totem at the start of a match. It clearly says 'Destroy a BOON TOTEM'.
Which Survivors will just override with their Boon again. Because Survivor Boons are more powerful than Hexes, for some reason.
I'm not here to talk about how to handle Pentimento, I'm here to talk about boon totems and why the killer being able to break them is a bad idea.
The solution, to repeat, is that boons should be reigned in on a few things like verticality and audio radius, potentially given a cooldown, and then the actual problem area of Circle of Healing should be properly nerfed.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755669#Comment_2755669
Due to Hex: Penti; I really do think Killers should be able to destroy Boon totems. Let me explain:
- Hex: Penti relies on Survivors destroying Totems. Except...Survivors have 0 reasons to destroy totems now. They can't Boon a destroyed totem.
- And NOT destroying them literally counters Hex: Penti without doing any extra work. They counter it by sitting on gens.
So Killer's got a Hex perk that literally requires Survivors to work against their own self-interest (leaving gens, and Cleansing totems so they can no longer Boon them). The Killer CANNOT do anything, at all, to make Survivors give him Cleansed totems.
This is why, because this perk is yet another garbage Hex perk due to it's drawbacks, that Killers should be able to destroy Boon totems. It gives them totems then can now Penti.
And, though I've not done any tests, I'm fairly certain Survivors can override Penti with their own Boons, like every Hex. So a Killer rebuilding a totem as Penti is giving Survivors a new totem to Boon again. More risk vs reward.
Pentimento is the biggest reason killers shouldn't be able to destroy totems. That'd be a frankly insane amount of slowdown they'd get essentially for free, that perk would have to be nerfed into oblivion to be balanced with this change.
Which, adding on to everything else I've been saying so far, only seals the deal that killers breaking boon totems is a bad idea from pretty much every conceivable angle. There are not only better ideas, there are ideas that wouldn't make the game worse if they were implemented, so I'm really not sure why so many people are still on this ludicrous, awful suggestion.
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I've been experiencing this a bit more myself, while doing things like Prestiging Myers or going for survivor adepts as a training exercise.
A similar principle is part of why I enjoy playing weak killers. Sure, I might not win, but why would I expect to if I'm picking the weakest killer? But then when I do get that good bottle throw and mindgame into a down, that feels far better on the weakest killer than the equivalent play on Nurse, Spirit, or Blight.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755653#Comment_2755653
the times where you can actually use it require so many things to fall into place that outside of very niche circumstances it's just not worth running
So...like every Hex totem. You know; those niche effects that barely last 30 seconds, barely do anything, and can not be re-hexed? Outside of the only 2 useful ones; NoED and Ruin. Which can also be removed amazingly fast.
You don't take a sledgehammer to a potentially fun and fair mechanic just because it has minor problems
Why not? That's what they do to anything Killer. 😁
Joking aside; I'm not fully into the whole 'Devs are Survivor mains' stuff, but when they do things like Hexes, and give Survivors a buff to wriggle speed for no reason within the change to wriggling; It sure LOOKS like they are playing 'favorite child'.
For the record: I agree with the wriggle mechanic change. I Just don't see why they added a Survivor-sided buff to wriggle speed inside it at the same freaking time.
Okay, so once again, we're going to glide past the weird "devs are survivor mains" stuff since it's fully irrelevant...
Yes. Hexes are weak. I said that. Though, Ruin and NOED aren't the only useful hexes, that's extremely reductive. That's not relevant to the actual argument taking place here, which is about how to balance boons.
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@Wulfasger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755605#Comment_2755605
So what? Same goes for hexes?? And thats why i said "destroy or debless" depends on what perks are you using. If you are using noed or something, you may want to keep them. So this is totally pointless.
Ask yourself to this. How many times did you choose pgtw instead of ruin because your hex will be spawned inside the survivors butt? I see no difference. Those perks are not... well at least not mean to be broken. Searching for that damn blessed totem and step on it is not a very useful counterplay where you just chase other person and the other survivor rebless it.
Hexes being weak isn't an excuse to give boons the same downsides, especially when they aren't designed in the same way and require different balancing.
There are definitely things to be fixed with boons, but taking a sledgehammer to them just because one of the three perks in that category is too strong is not a good idea.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755613#Comment_2755613
I'm sorry, but to me; Boons are just strong Hex perks BECAUSE they were given to Survivors.
They also impact the game heavily: Hiding your scratch marks & aura from the Killer's powers/perks? Strong. Having DOUBLE the Recovery speed AND infinite chances to pick yourself up? Strong. Having DOUBLE the healing speed? Really effing strong! Oh yeah; and any time the Killer spend Snuffing is undone because Survivors can re-bless forever.
They are exactly the power level Hexes SHOULD be, but only 2 Hexes are anywhere close to being Hex-level powerful. The rest are utter jokes. Slop thrown to Killers long before Devs decided to suddenly make GOOD effects, and hand them to Survivors.
And since they ARE as powerful any the strongest Killer Hexes, in terms of game impact; they should be LIMITED like all Killer Hexes. it honestly does not surprise me that Boons are pointed at as yet more 'Devs care about Survivors more'. Because, even if they don't; it sure as hell LOOKS like they will always give Survivors OP toys to ratchet back inch by inch, and this mindset is reinforced when they took Hexes; a KILLER MECHANIC, made it as good, if not BETTER, and then said 'By the way; unlike Hexes, Survivors can rebless infinitely'.
So yeah; they took a Killer mechanic, made it better, and took away the ONE drawback of said Killer mechanic. Tell me that does not, on the surface, look like 'Devs are Survivor-sided'.
It honestly feels like Killers Perks/Powers are rubber-band-guns and get buffed to handguns over months, if not years. While Survivor Perks are orbital lasers and nerfed to bazooka levels over months, if not years. Look at Boon: Circle Of OPealing; no word on it being a broken pile of BS. Because they want Survivors t have fun before nerfing it.
But Killers? If enough people say '<new Killer on PTB> is OP', it's nerfed to dust. Look at: Literally every Killer to exist. Even Nemesis is mostly trash because 'the game could not handle that many zombies'. So why, if the zombies were a bottleneck, is his power still based on using them? Because Killer powers are always weak and 'eventually' get buffed. Maybe. Just ask Legion when.
Yeah, this is where you're wrong, which I somewhat expected based on your previous message.
If you list out the effects of Exponential on paper, yes, it looks very strong! However, the times where you can actually use it require so many things to fall into place that outside of very niche circumstances it's just not worth running. The killer has to slug you, in range of a boon totem, that someone's already put up, that doesn't get snuffed partway through... Those are all pretty big "ifs" to put on this perk, it's just not good. Period.
Then we get to Shadow Step, and even when listing out the effects on paper it's clear that it's a fair and balanced perk. Losing scratch marks makes chases harder, yes, but it's a fair difficulty increase that can absolutely be played around. Know how I know this? Two things; losing scratch marks is baked into some killer kits as the fair difficulty increase for a chase, and there are other survivor perks that remove scratch marks that most people regard as quite weak. On top of that, unlike CoH - the real problem - survivors have to be in its range during a chase, so you're far more likely to know where it is to snuff it after they're downed.
Where does that leave us? It leaves us with a fair and balanced perk (though the mechanic it rests on could use tweaks - I've never liked that boon auras go through floors, for example, and the killer should be able to hear it from further away) and kind of a useless perk, both of which would be destroyed by making totems one-time use for blessing.
We're going to glide past the weird "devs are survivor-sided" stuff since that's fully irrelevant, and conclude with this:
You don't take a sledgehammer to a potentially fun and fair mechanic just because it has minor problems and one problem perk. The solution is to put a few more limitations on boons, as I described above, and to redirect that sledgehammer to Circle of Healing, where it belongs.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755605#Comment_2755605
but if they're one-time-use on any given totem, that dramatically cuts down their usefulness, and so nobody will ever run them.
So...exactly like Hexes. They would then be Hexes for Survivors. You're saying Boons are only good because they are infinite use, which is what makes them OP.
There are two things wrong with this comparison!
1: Boons and hexes are not the same mechanic. They are not designed to work the same way, and part of that is that boons are designed to be limited range but replaceable at the cost of a time sink, whereas hexes are designed to be mapwide (+ supposedly more impactful to the core objective, but that's always been a bit dicier since there are more outliers) but temporary.
2: Hexes are in a bad spot right now. They're weaker than they should be. It'd be absolutely pants-on-head stupid balancing to give boons the same downsides as a perk type that needs some buffs/tweaks.
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We're still on this, are we? War never changes...
Anyway, I disagree. Destroying a totem not only runs the risk of messing with killer perks like Plaything or NOED (as well as providing an insane buff to Pentimento), but it also completely neuters boon totems from ever being the kind of mechanic they could be. They're so, so close to being an incredible addition to the game conceptually, but if they're one-time-use on any given totem, that dramatically cuts down their usefulness, and so nobody will ever run them.
Ask yourself this. Would Shadow Step or Exponential ever be worth using if the totem they're attached to could be removed entirely, when they're already so damn situational that one of them is only mediocre on the majority of maps and the other is actively awful?
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@TAG said:
I feel like that would make the perk miserable for newcomers. I get and support balancing for the top end, but I don't think the lower end shoud be shut out of the equation entirely.
I agree with the sentiment, but I'd also point out that against newcomers, Lullaby is probably going to hit max stacks much more consistently anyway. Newcomers aren't as quick to go hunt down and cleanse a totem, after all.
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I think what it shows is that people don't really understand the concept of the Q&A lmao.
If the answer to the question they asked is "soon" or "we have no plans currently" then what else are BHVR supposed to say?
Of course, it doesn't help that so many of the questions were things we already know the answer for. Questions about Switch cross progression, for example- there's no point asking/upvoting that because we know what the answer is going to be anyway.
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I'm also of the opinion that Lullaby should just start at max stacks, with no actual scaling effect at all. It still wouldn't be that good, but it'd at least have some kind of effect before it's cleansed.
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@PlayTwink said:
Can't wait to hear the answers like: We don't have planes at this time or SoonTM
I mean, if that's the answer to the question, what else are they supposed to say?
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If it is a license, the one that would make me most happy would probably be Alien- go for a combination of movie and game, give us Ellen Ripley as a survivor but the Sevastapol as a map instead of [insert the ship's name in the movie, I haven't actually seen it]. It's probably less likely due to licensing, but all the other licenses I'd want would be far too small to justify being an anniversary reveal.
Though man, I would very much respect their announcement being "ok we're doing a paragraph with John Constantine as a survivor", that'd be a big dick move.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755022#Comment_2755022
Where exactly did I lie? "Ignoring the problem for 5.5 years and only then responding with something that still might be scrapped and forgotten, as it happened many times before" is not much different from "Ignoring the problem". You seem to be running out of hooks to attack the criticism, trying to attach one label after another to me: at first I was "walking it back" when you misundestood what I was saying, then me saying that removal of the masks was motivated by purely political reasons (which they were) is "bating", and now I'm "knowingly lying" about something. I'm getting tired of these unfounded attacks, your goal is to defend the current state of the game at all costs while disregarding the opposite opinion with unfounded labels like "back-walking, baiting and lying", you made your position clear, fine.
you claim there hasn't been a good patch in a year because you're selectively ignoring all the good that's been done in that time period
I already replied to that. If an update contains something undesirable and makes the game worse at something - I call it a "bad update", because good updates should not make the game worse. There is no a single update (not mere bugfix) released within the last year that didn't hurt the game one way or another. This point still stands.
Saying that they're ignoring a problem when they categorically are not is lying. You may have known in your heart that what you meant was "taking too long to address it", but that isn't what you said, so trying to draw a connection between those two statements doesn't really pan out. If you mean a specific thing, say that specific thing- or at least cop to the fact that you didn't say it properly instead of pretending what you said and what you meant are the same thing. If you say "they are ignoring this" and someone responds "no they're not", you don't get to pivot to "well it took too long" as though that's the same thing.
I'm not taking the bait regarding Bubba's masks because you're demonstrating quite effectively that you want to argue about whether the comfort of certain people is "political".
As for your "already replied", we've already tackled that: your definition of "make the game worse" is so broad that it includes the addition of an extremely popular killer that you don't personally like and one of the best accessibility changes in the game's history because it means you can't throw a tantrum and leave a game early. Those things didn't make the game worse, so AT BEST your initial statement is still wrong because those patches were good.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754234#Comment_2754234
Creating guarranted hits is inevitably going to happen regardless of which killer you play. Trap based killers create scenarios where your damaned if you do and damned if you don't. Blight has tiles and zone's where your agency as a survivour is nonexistent its the push and pull to force and maneuver away from these positions that is the heart of dbds higher skill play or what it should be. You are rewarded as killer for creating these opportunities.
But usually the counterplay for traps is to disarm them. In deathslinger case he is a 110 killer putting distance between you and him is the point. If you don't leverage the vaults and pallets to push for increasing distance that's a falling of the survivor.
If you traditionally loop Slinger your giving him guaranteed hits. Pallets, vaults are intended to give you that distance. If you give the ranged killer a skill that can be dodged and reacted to they won't function as a killer past certain skill brackets. It could be perfectly fine with an increased cooldown on his gun drop down animation to prevent zoning (which he still does look at otzs lore based Slinger for proof of such). But if he is pulling up his gun to use his power it should be snappy and clean.
Plenty of designs in games are walked back. Because building on bad decision is building on bad foundation that regardless of how well the other components are designed will not save the mechanic. That's why they went about ripping out the foundation of Freddie power design. You can argue its still not exciting which is fair but it certainly more practical then building on a concept that is inherently terrible.
In regards to stay on topic or as some call it "what aboutism" taking concepts and existing history in game design as a source is important regardless of your genre. Though the language is different there are still key game design philosophies. A moba, a shooter, a fighting game still has design perspective dbd would benefit from to compartmentalise them as separate subjects with no crossover whatsoever is foolish.
Yes, I agree- as I said, all killers can create scenarios where their hit is all but guaranteed, that's part of how this game is designed. The problem with old Deathslinger is that the scenario he ""created"" was just being in a chase with a survivor in any spot more open than Lery's. He didn't have to do anything, he just had to keep raising his gun while making distance and then either getting an M1 or firing so quickly no human being would feasibly be able to react to it.
Now, to your "snappy and clean" point- again, I agree. We are in agreement that he is not in a good spot and the main reason is that he feels a touch too clunky and sluggish. I imagine we disagree on how bad of a spot he's in, but he unambiguously needs a little help. He just can't be walked back to his old obnoxious state because that was changed for a reason.
Also, you're being purposefully obtuse in that last point. Obviously they can learn from any other game in some way, but you were drawing a direct comparison between Dead By Daylight and FPS games, which is a misleading and inaccurate way of looking at it. Slinger can't function like Doomguy or Master Chief because this isn't that kind of game, making arguments revolving around "well it's in those games" is irrelevant- which is what you were doing and what I was responding to.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2753944#Comment_2753944
So you just wanna remove DH from game? You don't need to do this. Just remove.
I really don't see how people think this would make DH useless? The point of the perk is to dodge a hit and keep running, and that effect is pretty darn good! The only thing I want to change is when someone just presses E and immediately uses a window/pallet, because that's cheap, brainless, and uncounterable.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2753702#Comment_2753702
There have been so many suggestions on how to make the situation better. I've already replied about that some time ago, let me find it...
Here it is:
There could be several options.
Bringing solos to the level of SWFs completely, like this: adding icons showing who is doing what (including chases), adding quick global messages like "the killer is near me" or "my gen is X% done" (that would show the exact %), adding text team chat at least, making Kindred, BT and DS basekit, etc.
Moving SWF to a separate game mode with separate game rules.
Removing SWF completely: wanna play with your friends - go to Kill Your Friends and bully one of your own.
etc.
Yeah, they announced they would think about adding those icons eventually (still, I won't believe it until I see it actually implemented, since we all know what their promises are worth), but that happened after 5.5 years! And all this time they have been bombarded by decent suggestions. Scott Jund made a good review of a whole collection of great ideas on how to improve DbD, commenting that most of those ideas never reached the attention of the devs, and those that did and even were approved by the devs still haven't been worked on, even though the devs said they would implement it, like with that mechanism of promoting players taking the role that is currently lacking players, for the sake of more consistent queues.
The ideas are out there in great supply, even the good ones made by experienced players and generally trusted people like Scott and Otz, BHVR just don't see any point in listening to the community, they only listen to the game designers they hired and to nobody else.
Cool, so you've admitted that they aren't ignoring the problem and you've shifted the goalposts to a different criticism. One I actually agree with this time, but it doesn't change the fact that you knowingly lied in the other message.
Of course, this conversation has gotten wildly off topic- the topic is that you claim there hasn't been a good patch in a year because you're selectively ignoring all the good that's been done in that time period. That's all I intended to dispute at first, so if you've got nothing more to say on that topic and just want to twist in the wind regurgitating unrelated points about BHVR as a company, I think we're done here!
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2754144#Comment_2754144
To be fair, I don't think a map is very well designed if the sole strategy is "pick a 3 gen and hold it or you will probably lose". Eyrie's got Old Ormond syndrome where it's long, densely packed with interconnected and safe pallets/loops, and the main building is easy to get to and immensely strong. Except at least with Old Ormond you didn't have to break any breakable walls.
While I agree, I don't think this is a case of "pick three gens to defend", it's a case of "ignore that one gen". It's like the generator in the saloon on Dead Dawg, defending it is just a nightmare chore so it's better to ignore it and let it get finished.
The gen by the shack should just be ignored, but the other six are far more defensible.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752617#Comment_2752617
Believe me a declaration of game balance incompetence or game designer ignorance is far from a personal assault let's get that out of the way. Putting Infuses on dev incompetence criticism based on a longed storied history of mistakes.
Next you can quickscope back to kill your opponent is flat out incorrect if there equiped with medium to short range load out they lose the ability to meaningfully fire back. There are plenty of games where hostiles are not killable and your counter measures involve better pathing. Assuming an asymetrical game cannot do this is jarring and absurd.
Often developers go a direction with design that is terrible and unnecessary. Deathslinger is a high skill ranged killer if a person can transform a quickscope into a hit it is not only earned its good design. It creates actual reward for time invested learning the character. The opposing survivor skill of pathing through difficult terrain to force more precise shots is in itself a skill. Billy isn't a push forward design either. Overheat is unnecessary and removal of deathslingers quick scope is flat out wrong.
Even if we entertain the quickscopes got to go. It might not be a play style a player likes but you shouldn't horribly mangle the killers design before having measures in place to actually fix the killer. How can you stand by these decisions to mangle a killers design if you know its gonna take months (if we're lucky) years (if its similar to Freddy or dses true rework). It ignorant and irresponsible. It straight borders on vandalism of a players property. But it's OK in two years time he will be back to functioning as an enjoyable killer.
...Calling someone incompetent and ignorant isn't a personal attack now? Alright, dude.
Tackling the rest of your points, thin as they are... do you really think that you've got a point with that "medium to short range load out" thing? The point is that in a shooter, both sides are trying to kill each other. In this game, one side is trying to kill the other side, and the other side is trying to avoid getting hit. If a killer in this game has a way of hitting a survivor that the survivor cannot do anything about (outside of things like Huntress at a window, I'm not talking about having situations where a hit is unavoidable, but rather a hit being unavoidable at all) then that killer is badly designed. Period.
As for your points about Slinger being a high skill ranged killer and the survivor skill of more intelligent pathing being the counterplay, I agree! And now that the survivor actually has that option because Slinger can't just ADS fake/quickscope to take away their agency, that can start being how he actually plays- once he's buffed, anyway.
Brief aside, Overheat is unnecessary but it also has zero impact, so removing it fixes nothing and amounts to a waste of resources. They should at least try to make it a positive presence before abandoning it.
And finally, I do not support the way that Deathslinger was changed and if they do take years to fix him I don't support that either. What I'm defending is specifically that, in a better version of the changes, quickscope/ADS fake would still be gone, because that was a problem. Let's try and stay on topic, shall we?
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I think the only thing here that surprises me is seeing Ruin show up so much more often than Undying. You'd think people would pair those two up more often...
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Your art style is so cute, I always love seeing the art you post!