jesterkind
jesterkind
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@[Deleted User] said:
They're gens. The game is 6 years old. What are we not adapting to? This isn't some new mechanic that was introduced. The only objective in the game for one side was made to take an eternity when you factor in the extra 10 seconds and stacked slowdowns everyone is running. Gens were made 80 seconds for a reason back in the day.
Needing different perk builds, needing to loop more efficiently and not burn through resources as quickly, and understanding when the new changes have made it safer to go for a hook save.
I'm not necessarily agreeing with OP (I think there's more nuance than that) but there are things survivor players need to adapt to, and I do think that some players aren't doing that. The game has different tools and strategies now, it's not just that generators take a little bit longer.
Players are gonna need some time to adjust to their chases getting harder, that's not that unreasonable of a take imo.
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If they fixed his major issue (the addon overhaul that made them all useless) I'd play a lot more Billy. His core power is fine, there could always be QoL improvements but it's not his major problem by any stretch of the imagination.
The sad truth is that Billy is always gonna be weaker than he was because the game changed around him, more than because of what was done to him. I'd just like more interesting addons and maybe a few QoL improvements for the chainsaw, and I'd play a lot more Billy.
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I'd argue the point of anti-tunnel perks isn't to discourage chases, though.
The point of anti-tunnel perks is to give you agency in the chase again, so that you are no longer being simply taken out of the game as soon as you're unhooked. You actually get to play the game, loop the killer, show off your skill, use your perks (including Exhaustion perks), etc etc.
With that in mind, the anti-tunnel measures we've had introduced are pretty decent. I wouldn't say no to more that fill the role, but it's not as though survivors are lacking in options.
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075713#Comment_3075713
It's not a build problem, its a tunneling and camping problem. The game before was broken but there was gen rush on the survivor side. Now there isn't. It just camping and tunneling with no gen rush. So killers will win most of the games.
Camping yes (though not as extreme as some would tell you), tunnelling no.
You can also absolutely still genrush with the right tools.
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People are being too quick to judge.
Give it time for them to figure out what builds they want to use and it'll settle back to having the same old problems, just slightly better off than before.
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Definitely a good update. It's got a few teething problems that will surely be ironed out soon (or... maybe not, but y'know), but those aren't even close to stopping it being overall very positive.
I've played I think two matches of killer and a fair number more of survivor since this update hit, and for an update that's partially designed towards making killer stronger, it's surprisingly painless on the survivor side. I personally barely noticed the extra ten seconds on generators, and the only actual problems I faced were the normal solo queue stuff - like my last match where I was left to die on hook by two people healing themselves across the map lol.
Seeing such variety and having such an encouragement to try out new combinations is extremely refreshing after so long of the game being stale and heavily emphasising certain tools on both sides. There's still a little emphasis there- you're still gonna want some slowdown and some anti-tunnel, respectively, but at least it's different tools for those two things and some pretty solid basekit versions of both.
Overall, it's a great first move towards fixing a lot of problems. The work's not done but the game already feels a lot better.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075520#Comment_3075520
12.5% increase is an increase of 12.5%. Framing it (which is what you do) as something not noticed or felt or whatever else is disingenuous.
While it is absolutely possible to frame changes like this in disingenuous ways, what makes it disingenuous is framing it in anything other than real terms.
In real terms - IE, what the charge number translates to - it's ten extra seconds per generator. That's cumulative seconds, too, not consecutive, the number lowers if more than one person works on a particular generator. I don't think it's a far leap to say that a maximum of ten extra seconds isn't something you're going to actively notice while you're repairing, especially since it's often lower than that since at least the last generator often has multiple people working on it.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075290#Comment_3075290
Gens are much slower now there is no adapting to that unless you like playing gen simulator. Just lost match where we gor last gen to 95% but blight managed to bring survivor close to it and then slugged rest of us quickly who tried to do gen one survivors was death at that point well before we would won that match or at least 2 would escaped and probably with old dh and ds we would gotten 4 man escape. Killers got huge buff now even bad killers win matches they would previously lost.
Gens are a maximum of ten seconds longer now with no slowdown in play, that's not something you're realistically going to notice in the vast majority of situations.
Not to mention that you can absolutely adapt to it by bringing generator speed builds, of course.
As for that match in your example, that sounds like a pretty close game that was only lost because one of your teammates misplayed, not a crushing loss you couldn't have avoided.
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I agree.
Survivors now have to go back to the drawing board and really evaluate what tools to bring, as a lot of the perks people got comfortable with are now much much less usable. Maybe it's a crutch they got used to like Dead Hard, but there are also plenty of other tools that got shaken up. Combined with more of an emphasis on looping efficiently instead of burning through resources, it definitely means a lot of survivor tactics and tools are up in the air.
I fully believe that people will get used to this shakeup after a little while, once they've experimented with builds and adjusted to the chase changes. I'm not saying anyone is a bad survivor player, I'm saying they got used to being good at the previous state of the game, and their approach just needs to catch up a little.
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I think the most recent Patch Notes would probably be your best bet!
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074812#Comment_3074812
Fair. We'll see how it plays out. It's definitely a fine line to walk where killers aren't overly punished for taking the only play given to them by survivors and survivors are also rewarded for making the correct play. I wouldn't want to be a dev.
Seconded. It's got to be very stressful.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074739#Comment_3074739
I think a huge part of the skill cap in DbD is the strategy aspect of it. It's always been a positioning and area control game at the highest level up until this point. The lower tier killers had issues with time management to a degree, but B tier and above was almost always macro related before this patch.
I agree with your opening statement there, but I'd argue that the time pressure was far too intense for everyone before this patch- the fact that Nurse and Blight and such can reliably meet strict requirements doesn't stop those requirements from being strict, and it certainly doesn't stop those requirements from being a problem.
Like I said, there's obviously a line, a point at which killers can commit too much time to one chase where it becomes something you can fairly consider poor play, but I don't think we're at the point where a killer crosses that line and isn't punished for it yet. It's just swung a little further back so killers aren't punished for having moderately paced chases where they need to actually outplay their opponent instead of getting them immediately.
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I'm pretty sure anything that is in the game can break it.
Maybe there's a weird bug where this one cosmetic head causes the game to hard crash in some scenarios, that doesn't seem all that far fetched to me.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It depends on how you look at it too. Because I had a few games yesterday where killers were able to completely overcommit in chase for way too long and they suffered zero consequences. Survivor feels a whole lot less rewarding.
There's room for a discussion about whether that should be considered some kind of mistake or poor play, though.
Chasing survivors is meant to be what you're doing as killer, and I'd argue that saying "overcomitting to chase" is a mistake or poor play, at best, an unproven claim. Should it be? Should killers constantly have an overwhelming time pressure breathing heavily down their necks in every chase?
Obviously there's a line, but giving killers more leeway to actually try and chase someone without automatically losing the game for not being super quick about it isn't an objectively bad thing.
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While I'm not against a ping system in DBD, it's undeniably not as good of a fix as some other options. Anything your random teammates have to actually elect to use and know how to use properly just fundamentally isn't going to raise the information level of solo play up all that much at all, let alone up to the levels of SWF.
I'd rather see some passive information conveyance that doesn't require players to actively use it. Something like status icons, alongside some other stuff like (some form of) basekit Kindred and the ability to see your teammate's builds at all times.
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I've been playing a few matches of solo queue, and so far I've not noticed it being the miserable hellscape that was prophesied. In fact, it's been going pretty well- the normal solo queue "bad teammates" issues notwithstanding.
It's a nice refreshing shakeup to the state of the game, encouraging trying out new things. New Deja Vu and Dark Sense have been very nice, so far... still gotta grind some BP to unlock some other perks I wanna test with, but so far so good!
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I'd also like to suggest Streetwise, for players who would prefer levelling Nea over Felix for whatever reason.
Item Efficiency + Medkit + Charge addons, that's a pretty reliable set of heals right there.
Self-Care has always been a bad pick unless it's part of a medkit build, and you can't do that anymore. It's a good idea to look at your myriad of other options.
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@Lyonic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067988#Comment_3067988
Hi just want to throw something in here - I am a killer only player for many years and run a facecamping bubba stream on twitch. People always think leatherface facecamping is nasty but if people learned how to get around bubba's mechanics, it would not be as such. It's just a knowledge gap in the community.
That's technically true now, but the currently used counterplay to a facecamping Bubba is going to get harder because generators are going to take longer to complete overall.
Facecamping Bubba isn't unbeatable, but it's a bit much to ask of the average player already, so it does warrant changing. There's enough room to not decry it as impossible to play around, but still acknowledge it as something that should absolutely be adjusted so players have more room to counter it.
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@bittercranberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068952#Comment_3068952
this gives me outer worlds + death stranding atmosphere, are they similar or totally different?
Totally different in terms of gameplay. RoR2 is a roguelike, a pretty good one at that, and it has some really interesting worldbuilding as well.
Muck is... kinda like if you try to speedrun Minecraft on hardcore mode? It's weird. Pretty fun though.
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I've been playing a fair amount of Risk Of Rain 2 recently, and that's definitely the kind of game you can sink a lot of hours into. I also gave a free game on Steam called "Muck" a try recently and that seems pretty neat.
Neither of those are the kind of third person action games you laid out, to be fair, but unfortunately I don't play those very much lol
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068580#Comment_3068580
It's not that solos had a specific change that hurt them. Any survivor nerf hits solos harder than swf. That's how solo was nerfed hard.
But there are aspects of survivor play where solo players aren't at a disadvantage. The biggest one is chase- while being in a SWF may give you some extra tools like coordinating bodyblocks, the basic mechanics of a chase with the killer aren't any harder if you're playing in solo queue. Anything that nerfs survivors in chase (EG, the basekit killer buffs we're getting) don't hit solos harder, because being in solo queue isn't a disadvantage for that aspect of survivor play.
I would argue all the changes we get fall into those categories. The extra ten seconds of generator time doesn't really require a SWF at all, the chase buffs for killers don't hit solos harder, none of the perk nerfs are for solo's required perks like Kindred...
The only things I can think of that'd actually harm solo queue more are more minor things like Thana Legion getting slightly worse, and a handful of things (like OTR and the basekit anti-tunnel) even help solos a noticeable amount, so that's why I don't really think it's objectively true that solo queue are getting nerfed hard.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068648#Comment_3068648
Do you wholeheartedly think ten additional seconds of generator time does not contribute to a lack of information and coordination?
What about perk nerfs -- no effect on information or coordination either?
You sound delusional thinking this is not devastating to solo queue players -- As if it wasn't bad enough before this patch.
...No?
I mean, sure, you don't know what your teammates are doing so you don't know how progressed other generators are, but I don't see that being a bigger issue than it currently is beyond it simply slowing the game down the way it's intended to. Genuinely, how does this translate to being devastating to solo queue players? The generators aren't harder, they didn't get more difficult to complete, they don't require two players to finish... it's just ten extra seconds. To be clear, I play solo queue myself when I play survivor, and more recently I've been playing it more- I do not see how ten extra seconds is impactful to solo queue specifically.
As for the perk nerfs, categorically no. None of the team-information perks were nerfed, and the perks that got buffed weren't explicitly coordination-requiring perks like Kinship or anything, at least that I can remember. Do you have any examples for how any of these perk changes actually hurt solo queue without having clear alternatives to turn to?
Like, to be clear, solo queue is always going to have the difficulty of random teammates being unreliable, but that's not changed either way this patch.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068580#Comment_3068580
I gave you the benefit of the doubt before, but I think we have entered delusional territory. That or being purposefully misleading.
I assure you, I'm being genuine.
Solo queue isn't just "harder", it has specific downsides that make it the weaker role. Those downsides are a lack of information and a lack of coordination. I haven't seen anything in the updates that would hint at those things getting harder, outside of maaaaybe something like Thana Legion? But I don't think that's getting "worse" so much as "more common".
Genuinely. What am I missing?
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068206#Comment_3068206
Depends on how you define unfairly. Solo queue got nerfed hard though. That really can't be denied.
Can't it?
Like I said, I've yet to hear where exactly that nerf came from. The stuff that makes solo queue hard is... basically unchanged?
Your lack of information is unchanged, all the teammate-aura and team-information perks are still there. Your need to have a few clutch self-heals available hasn't gone anywhere, though BK getting a nerf is a minor hit there. You still have all the best tools for doing that, so I don't consider that "nerfed hard". Your lack of coordination with your teammates hasn't changed, since nothing in this new update really requires coordination to counter or to use, respective to the role.
Those are the (balance-relevant) things that make solo queue harder. What am I missing here?
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068244#Comment_3068244
I mean I agree with you if we ignore the fact that, dead hard and DS got nerfed, OTR and DS don't work if exit gates are powered. This alone guarantees killers a kill in the end game. People aren't going to run BT anymore, so if you don't run OTR you are 100% dead in 5 seconds. People will just eat DS now because its stun isn't enough to give them meaningful safety. Remember killers got buffed across the board so they do everything faster, if they want to tunnel, that person dies much much faster than last patch.
And then there's camping, which is a lot more meaningful because gens take longer. And I agree that most of the time people don't camp to tunnel they camp to trade, which is even more cheap in my opinion. What was done to prevent free trades from killers who camp? Absolutely nothing.
So again, I just straight up disagree that tunneling or camping got harder, they got easier. And I would prefer the developers to know that now so we don't have to wait another two months to get actual fixes for things people quit the game over.
Dead Hard is 100% irrelevant to the topic of tunnelling. It may have also helped in that scenario, but that was not what it was designed to do and focusing on that ignores that it was absurdly strong and 100% needed its nerf.
As for the others, I'm still on the fence about DS' stun nerf but worst case scenario is that you just replace it with OTR, which is better than DS ever was at actually being an anti-tunnel tool. They deactivate in the endgame because of course they do, the endgame is free reign to camp and tunnel because you have literally nothing else left to do, if multiple people are alive you can stick by the hook to secure one kill or use it as bait. It's not a guaranteed kill to have them deactivate, but having them still active would be a guaranteed escape.
If you define anti-tunnel as "making it impossible for the killer to tunnel", sure, these changes aren't going to do that because nothing could without serious downsides. If you more correctly understand it as "giving the survivor agency in the chase to outplay a tunnelling killer", these changes absolutely make serious strides. There's no room for ambiguity here, tunnelling got harder.
As for camping... what exactly is wrong with trading hooks? The killer isn't getting more meaningful value than they would from playing the game normally, and if it's played right they won't actually get any kills at all. Making saves more meaningful by rendering the killer incapable of getting more than a trade without leaving the hook is exactly what they should be doing to fix camping, among other things.
What still needs to be done for camping is a mix of a few things- more incentive to leave the hook is never going to be a bad idea, and some minor discouragements from lingering like a loss of points, aura reveal for the survivors, and maybe a few other penalties alongside that would go a long way-- but ultimately, killers are always going to be able to camp if they really want to. What BHVR should be looking at doing is making saves more viable, not making standing by the hook impossible.
Which, y'know, they've started with in this patch.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068215#Comment_3068215
Is it a wild accusation, from our conversation it seems pretty fair. I play both about equally and I think killers made out like a bandit. SWFs will still be annoyingly strong with OTR but SoloQ got decimated.
Do you even think camping and tunneling are a problem currently, like before patch? I am starting to think you don't.
I do think camping and tunnelling are a problem, yes. I think that the most problematic versions of camping (which is mostly literally just Leatherface) get a little worse this patch, but the more common kind - usually M1 killers facecamping or any killer proxy camping - got slightly weaker as it's impossible to tunnel someone immediately off hook, meaning that it's far more likely to be a trade when saving a camped teammate and not two downs.
Tunnelling is a problem not because the killer is chasing the same survivor twice, but because it robs that survivor of agency. They're at their most vulnerable when they're freshly unhooked, and the game's had a problem for a while of not having any meaningful tools to give them an edge and tip the scales back to at least neutral ground- even DS requires you to actually get downed, and a lot of killers can close the distance again after the stun wears off. With these changes, being downed again a few feet from the hook basically shouldn't happen again, and you're going to have the opportunity to actually make it to a loop and start having agency again, or try and get out of line of sight and hide if you prefer the stealthier route. Something to make chasing you less appetising.
Obviously this can't be the end of it, but these are good first steps. Tunnelling takes a pretty noticeable hit (so long as you understand what anti-tunnel is meant to achieve), and camping... well, it's more complicated but there's a decent foundation to build anti-camp tools onto later on.
I've yet to hear any meaningful arguments for why solo queue gets "decimated". From my perspective, my solo queue games might get a little easier with this patch.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068206#Comment_3068206
Here's my theory.
You main killer, you know the changes to camping and tunneling is largely useless, could even be considered easier to do so.
Knowing this, you would rather people don't talk about it so the developers don't revisit camping and tunneling in the future, because it makes your games harder.
That's a pretty wild accusation to throw out there, friend.
Do you have any evidence to back that up other than that I disagree with you?
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068172#Comment_3068172
So you don't think the real winners in this patch are killers?
I don't think that framing is helpful.
I think the better question to ask is "will survivors in general or solo queue in specific be unfairly harmed", and the answer to that - in my opinion - is no.
Some things got harder. Some tools were nerfed. For the most part, that happened to the things it needed to happen to, for the game's overall health.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068170#Comment_3068170
No it'll just help me understand if you are coping hard, or trying to gaslight people because you know the patch went entirely in your favor.
I'm doing neither, I'm giving my honest opinion after I've thought about the changes for a while.
Also, gaslighting is a real and serious thing, and in my opinion it really cheapens that important term to apply it to disagreements about video games on the internet.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068161#Comment_3068161
Just by chance, do you happen to play killer more than survivor?
If I say yes, are you going to discount my words out of hand?
Because that would be pretty silly.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068151#Comment_3068151
Dead hard nerf alone, made tunneling easier. Everything else stacked on top, is just more icing on that cake.
Yeah, I don't buy that.
Dead Hard needed to be nerfed, and there are plenty of actual anti-tunnel tools that'll help you just as much when you are actually being tunnelled without also being overpowered in other scenarios.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068093#Comment_3068093
Instead of waiting 12 seconds, now you just follow them for 5 then, and then they die. Trust me at top end MMR everyone will run OTR.
I am just warning you guys, get ready for the tunnel/camp meta.
Five seconds while they have a Haste effect, and if they don't have any other perks that they can use in those five seconds. It's guaranteed to be enough to not be downed straight away, and there's far more uncertainty on the killer end as to just how efficient it'll be to chase someone after they're unhooked.
Sure, maybe they don't have anything relevant, but maybe they've got Off The Record and you'll swing into Endurance. Maybe their teammate has Borrowed Time and they keep running at a faster rate. Hell, maybe they just make it to a window or a drop and proc Lithe or Balanced Landing to make chasing them even less appealing.
Tunnelling will get harder in this upcoming update. Camping is a little more arguable, but tunnelling is not going to get easier.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068046#Comment_3068046
I don't think people are upset about the nerfs as much as they are about being promised something and getting the opposite. I get that some people are whining, but many just want to give feedback on the game they like.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068056#Comment_3068056
How is that different from now with people running borrowed time? We basically traded using borrowed time for over the record and rather than just one person your entire team needs to run it. On top of that killers will be forced to hit you or give free body blocks later in the game. I like that behavior is trying to fix tunneling and camping, but they kind of did the opposite.
I play soloQ for 99% of my matches, and I see this type of coordination just about every game I play. If a killer is camping you will still need more than one person to unhook against a good killer. I promise you this patch only helped the bottom half of the MMR curve, it hurt just about everyone else playing survivor, aside from SWFs.
It's different because you no longer have to rely on the person unhooking you having brought Borrowed Time. If you bring Off The Record you will always be granted the benefits of a strong anti-tunnel tool. It's also different because they do different things...? BT only protects you from getting hit, but OTR will protect you from getting hit and make you harder to find again if the killer follows you.
I also don't agree that the killer is forced to hit you-- it's not a free body block. It's a body block that comes at the cost of having done nothing to progress the game for however long you were lurking around waiting to prevent a down or whatever you're aiming for.
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I tend to cycle through a bunch of games at one time anyway, so I've got options.
I've been playing a lot of Paladins, Risk of Rain 2, Fortnite, and the Arkham games recently, maybe those.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067988#Comment_3067988
If you are forced to hit people off the hook every time, then why would you take the time to chase a healthy individual instead of an already injured one? And now that dead hard is all but gone, you know that at most you will be dealing with a lithe or sprint burst. You may eat a DS sure, but they nerfed the stun, it's almost negligible now.
Agreed.
I didn't mean the individual being unhooked but the other players in the game can prevent the killer from hitting someone being unhook. In a solo game you might have bad teammates, but at high MMR I usually get decent teammates. So at mid to low MMR you may have better luck with camping than at mid to high.
And yeah, they need to just turn off chain saws near the hook, hatches, knives, oni power.
At the very least low MMR players will have an easier time with campers, but just about everyone else got nerfed.
Because the already injured one is sprinting away and is going to be harder to find again. Anti-tunnel measures aren't meant to make it impossible to chase or down someone who's recently been unhooked, they're meant to give the unhooked player more agency by letting them get to loops and start trying to outplay the killer.
That kind of coordination honestly isn't reasonable to expect of solo queue, this is still a very very good change for them. Now you don't have to hope that your teammates are going to be that coordinated, because it doesn't matter, you can't be hit again anyway.
Agreed that specific killer powers need their own fine-tuning for anti-camp measures, though I don't think just disabling them is a good call.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067891#Comment_3067891
Why do you need a slider, who would set their FOV to anything short of the maximum allowed amount? If the devs ever want to increase the FOV that's fine but a slider is unnecessary, just change the parameter to whatever the highest FOV is that doesn't cause gameplay or balance issues.
I dunno, personally I never really liked Shadowborn's FOV change. I'd prefer it be a slider, even if I wouldn't be overwhelmingly upset if it were just basekit for everyone.
Control over FOV is a reasonable thing to want, so long as the maximum value isn't high enough to cause problems.
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Eh, they're not designed the same way.
NOED's equivalent on the survivor side isn't DS, it's Adrenaline, or Hope, or Wake Up. Perks that activate specifically at the endgame, not perks that are unfairly stronger at the endgame.
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@Biscuits said:
Camping and Tunneling have actually become more important, let me explain.
Gens take 10 seconds longer, so killers like bubba who face camp now have more time to kill people on their first hook.
Off the record will be meta, if you don't hit someone off the hook immediately, you will regret it during your next chase.
Decisive strike has been nerfed, you will now always want to tunnel that person if the gates are powered.
The only thing this patch addressed was immediately downing someone after they get unhooked, which is already something good players could counter. It did nothing to camping or tunneling in general, it actually made them worse in my opinion.
There are a few things here I'd like to contest, if you don't mind.
First, if you're hit off hook immediately to get OTR out of the way... you aren't being tunnelled, because you get the speed boost and the stealth of OTR to get out of sight and evade the killer. At worst, you get to relocate to somewhere you can start making a play in chase, which is exactly what anti-tunnel measures are designed to do. What you're describing is anti-tunnel measures working.
Second, if the exit gates are powered, tunnelling is fair game. What else is the killer supposed to do?
Third, how is a good player supposed to counter being downed immediately after they get unhooked? They don't have time to outplay it, especially if it's a solo queue player being farmed. If they're hit as soon as their feet touch the ground they literally don't have time to react, and even if it's a second later, they can't exactly do anything.
Leatherface camping did get a bit nastier, that I will agree with, but tunnelling and certain forms of camping categorically get weaker in this patch.
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Insert Monty Python reference here...
(Which I would do if I remembered that scene well enough to quote it lol)
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@TheEmeraldTuber said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066865#Comment_3066865
But can you think of a downside? Why would it be a bad thing? Why can't streamers or people who want to constantly improve see it? Hell, it could even be good for the devs! If they wanted to run experiments, people at different MMR ratings could share how it affected their games. No matter how you look at it, it isn't a BAD thing.
I can think of a few!
- It might (honestly, it almost certainly would) lead to people thinking that they're "supposed" to be making their MMR increase, which means that the things which increase MMR will be seen as an explicit incentive instead of a generalised measure of someone's overall skill level. This is a downside because it's not designed as a ranked ladder, it's designed as a matchmaker.
- As the developers laid out, it would lead to an increase in a certain type of toxicity, where people with a lower MMR have their input entirely ignored and people with a higher MMR are given undue credit and attention for their opinions. This is bad because valuable input is only tangentially related to skill level, and because it's a bad environment to be told to stfu because you're bronze and bad and need to git gud.
- It would almost certainly make people more unjustly mad at the MMR system because they might disagree with how much the number goes up or down based on certain games. This is a bad thing because people still think the core design of the MMR system is bad, and not just really normal and standard, which is not a thing you want to make worse.
So, we've got at least three angles from which it's a bad thing, and no angles from which it's a good thing unless you count satisfying the idle curiosity of a handful of players. I don't personally think it's a good idea, for those reasons.
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Airport could definitely be pretty cool- I would love to see a shopping mall map, personally, and I think they might have a similar vibe if it's the indoor portion of an airport.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066865#Comment_3066865
If we were given the numbers and a breakdown of why. I’d like it. I’d love to know why I seem to be constantly stuck in low MMR for survivor yet have a decent escape rate. Or maybe I’m not even low and just think I am. I’d like to know.
Sure, but I feel like satisfying idle curiosity of a handful of players isn't really a good enough reason to start showing the inner workings of the matchmaking system? It's junk data that'll be misleading to a ton of players, so I don't think showing it is a good idea.
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There's not really much reason to see it, though. I don't think many games give you that kind of look at the matchmaking system, it'd certainly be an oddity if there are any examples.
How exactly does it benefit you to see your numbers? All it means is that you're being matched against players with similar numbers, that's it. There's no reward or incentive to making that number increase- heck, you might even find you don't enjoy matches at a higher number, and that's just a downside with no benefit.
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The thing about that one quote people like mocking where the devs said Twins were "monsters at high MMR" is that it's very believable because the Twins are very good, lol.
I'm not very good with them, but I do find them very fun. Looking forward to their update, iirc they're confirmed to be next!
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@Plsfix369 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065464#Comment_3065464
Gen Regression Perks exists, Pentimento exists, Thanatophobia exists. Call of Brine exists.
SoloQ's aren't the most efficient when it comes to gen; they either run around doing glyphs, looking for totems, doing their daily, or finishing some useless tome, which often leads to everyone getting killed even more. It's part of the game. Don't blame the players. Blame the useless reward system.
We expect DS to be the Meta Perk that will keep Blights and Nurse from getting an easy 4k. It was an equalizer for SoloQ since MMR is broken and most SoloQ teams consist of 2 average players, 1 veteran, and a bad player who is guaranteed to drag the whole team down.
Two stacks of STBFL are enough to even make Demogorgon powerful in open areas. Pair that with STBFL and you can get an instant down. Any killer who can close the distance quickly and use STBFL correctly will be boosted by the extra two stacks.
OTR isn't a good replacement for DS. If anything, it just makes the game even more toxic and it doesn't stack with basekit BT anymore, so it's useless against Blights and Nurse or anyone running STBFL, who can hit you twice right after you get unhooked.
I don't want Voice Comms either, we just want a Callout/Ping System.
Yes, they do, but the most effective ones were nerfed and the remaining ones mostly require the killer to be active and spreading pressure. That's a good thing.
Yep, players won't play optimally. That's both not a thing that balance can fix, and a thing that will not get worse in this upcoming patch; it's just the risk you accept when you queue up with random teammates in any game.
This one is just straight up wrong, you need more stacks of STBFL than that before it'll make an appreciable difference- Demo is also an outlier since it's the best user of STBFL by far.
OTR is a far better replacement for DS. Rather than waiting for you to get downed, you get the speed boost to get away from the killer after you're hit, enabling you to start making a play- the entire function of anti-tunnel. How is that not better than DS? Not to mention the longer timer in addition to the better effect. Still, what I want to highlight is where you said earlier that "you expect DS to be the meta perk". Well, don't? Look at your other, new, improved options? That's the whole point of this update, you've got new toys now.
Callout/Ping would be... probably not great. I'd prefer passive information that doesn't require random teammates to press buttons, but that's mostly irrelevant because this is not something that makes the game worse, it's the absence of something that'd make it better. There's a giant difference between those two things.
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@Plsfix369 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061617#Comment_3061617
Longer Gen time, DS is useless, Free STBFL, Tunneling and Camping isn't fix yet, Useless 5 seconds BT, and No Comms/Callout system.
In order:
Only ten seconds per generator which isn't really the kind of thing you're going to feel - you already commit 80 seconds if you're repairing a generator solo, what's ten more?
DS is less useful but has a clear replacement on top of some basekit changes.
Two stacks of STBFL. It'll help the killer cut down on downtime across an entire match, but that's not the part that you're really going to notice in a single chase. Probably should've led with the shorter sprint duration after you're hit, that's one you'll actually notice- not that it's a disastrous situation or anything.
Tunnelling and camping is far more nuanced than just not being affected or being buffed. Tunnelling took a hit- it's impossible to hard tunnel someone off hook, and there are tools that'll help even further; you say DS was made useless (which isn't quite true, it's only really useless against two killers) but make no mention of Off The Record, which is its clear replacement and is far better at the job than DS ever was. Overall, tunnelling got addressed; perhaps not enough, but definitely enough to be noticed. Camping... is stickier, because doing all the gens and leaving is harder, but saves are more effective since tunnelling is now harder. It breaks out about even, so camping still needs work but probably isn't going to get noticeably worse.
Adding comms is an actively bad idea, but even if it weren't... that doesn't make survivor worse. It's just a lack of something that'd make it better.
There will be some minor adjustments to make on the player side and this patch is not perfect, but it's just sensationalising to act like survivor is going to be unplayable because games will take a little longer and you have to change what perks you bring.
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065170#Comment_3065170
ohhh i see.
imo that is a dangerous route to take just because that might just completely delete self-care (as if the devs did not already delete it)
so your idea and mine are these right?:
- make them reliable self-healing options by increasing charges but decreasing self-healing speeds
- strongly decrease self-healing speeds but also strongly increase altruistic healing speeds
I like both ideas, tbh I'd take any idea over current medkits.
If people waste time self healing for a hit I dealt thats good. If people that get unhooked get healed within 4 seconds by a med-kit thats fine by me too. As long as the effiency gets taken away from solo instant healing
I wouldn't say strongly increase altruistic heals, but having there be a good boost there is a good direction to go. Also, it's only decreasing the boost you'd get from an Emergency Medkit; so, all medkits just flat heal you at base rates, no more.
Self-Care is currently in timeout for crimes of being ran too often over six years, so we'll have to revisit that one when it's learned its lesson.
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@BubbleBuster said:
I don't think it s a bad change per se but i don't know if you need to compensate med kits at all for nerfing them.
imo the steps that should be done 1 by 1 until medkits are balanced are these:
- remove the self-healing speed bonus on green medkits
- make healing speed increasing addons not work on self heals
- the botany knowledge nerf but only for self-heals
if it is still bad then yea i'd add speed penalties to self healing but increase charges of medkits/increase altruistic healing speeds with medkits.
"Compensate" may have been the wrong word to use- the point isn't to just "make up for" having nerfed away the healing speed, it's to rebalance medkits as a reliable self-heal that lacks in speed and can run out. In order to do that, you'd have to make sure you can heal more than once off the average medkit- therefore, increase charges.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061617#Comment_3061617
In solo Q noone cares about other people's gens. And since this patch buffed many regression mechanics, solo Q is gonna be even more pain as it is rn.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by that first part? I'm not sure I understand.
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I'd say just wait, unless you really want that scratchmark portrait.
You'll get automatically bumped up a few prestige tiers based on how many perk tiers you've got, and even if you didn't spending the 20k to prestige is better than losing all your stuff imo.