jesterkind
jesterkind
About
- Username
- jesterkind
- Joined
- Visits
- 17,633
- Last Active
Comments
-
That would be a terrible idea. I don't think perks should affect killer powers like that, they changed Small Game for this exact reason and Adrenaline is already a really tenuous exception.
Take Legion, as an example- Legion get Killer Instinct because they're on a time pressure to locate a survivor and they get scratch marks disabled while in Frenzy. Suppressing Killer Instinct harms them pretty heavily, far more than Demogorgon for example, I really think that'd be a terrible direction to take the perk in.
Reduce or remove the debuff, for sure, but having a perk suppress Killer Instinct doesn't really work when you stop and think about what that mechanic is supposed to do in at least some situations- at least in my opinion.
-
I doubt it, I feel like the players who want to camp aren't going to want to build up stacks of STBFL.
Don't get me wrong, that's gonna be a great perk once this patch hits, but not for camping killers. They'll probably want to stick to the classics for camping, like Bubba. Anything less than that, and the anti-tunnel is gonna make camping a touch more difficult, so those who want the easiest time are gonna pick Leatherface, then equip Deadlock/No Way Out/NOED.
Y'know, the same as right now, lol.
-
The only real point of variance for BP gain is Deviousness, right? I feel like most killers have decent enough score events for that category, and filling the others isn't too hard with any killer.
-
Adding onto that, Harper Row as a licensed survivor for a Gotham-based chapter with Scarecrow as the killer would be aces. I'd love that.
-
It's a pretty good change, though personally I'd still like to see NOED completely reworked. It's a pretty mediocre perk that only consistently gives a single down at the endgame against survivors who don't play like complete lemmings, so having its effect be fundamentally changed to something else might alleviate that issue.
Still, a change that bolsters the counterplay some folks stubbornly pretend it doesn't have is a good one. It'll push survivors to stay in the trial a bit longer too, which with NOED in play provides the killer a brief window to make a play. If they were going to make a change while preserving NOED's current effects, this is definitely the best way to do it.
-
You're cherry picking the complaints that didn't get addressed, though- and in some cases acting as though their response was somehow ignoring the problem when you just don't like their solution, like the P3 rewards.
A lot of people were concerned about Overcharge, so that was listening to feedback. People also raised concerns about how the Spine Chill nerf would adversely affect the hard of hearing, and BHVR responded to that before the PTB even went online, so they clearly listened to feedback there.
People talked about how getting addons might get harder with the new prestige, so BHVR announced two separate BP increases and also said they're looking at adjusting node rarities in a future update. That's listening to feedback.
Concerns were raised about the potential of an "Endurance meta" where people stack Endurance perks and chain them one after the other, and so BHVR made Endurance not activate if you already have Deep Wound. That's listening to feedback.
Obviously BHVR are not above criticism, but to say that they aren't listening to feedback at all just because some of the stuff you consider a bigger deal wasn't addressed is really bad faith, dude. There's stuff I wanted to see adjusted that didn't make it into the July dev update either, but I'm not gonna say that my feedback was therefore pointless, and I definitely wouldn't say that everyone's feedback is pointless because of it.
-
@HexDevourAvocado said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062990#Comment_3062990
Fix matchmaking.After 6 years behaviour needs to fix matchmaking :) There you go.
Matchmaking is better now than it's ever been before, and games with better matchmaking than DBD still have the issue of random teammates doing weird nonsense that doesn't help the team.
It's always going to be there, especially since there's not much requirement to be a team player in this game. Solo queue is not going to get measurably worse from a balance standpoint in this patch, and is in fact set to get a little easier in most scenarios because you don't need to rely on teammates as much for some things-- which means that even when you get matched with raccoons walking across a keyboard, you're not going to be as harmed.
-
@HexDevourAvocado said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062760#Comment_3062760
Buffing killers without buffing soloq will be even more painfull.
When ur solo team is healing a lot against legion ,if u add thana it will be unplayable.
I am happy with the killer buffs and nerfs on perks.
But simply as that,giving more power to a camper,or adding power to a good killer to go against soloq survivors is gonna be dead game from the first 5 minutes.
There are games where I get a good team in soloq but it 1 out of 10.
So 9 games soloq survivors who dont get a good team will have to sweat to either get hatch or escape or even do a couple of gens.
Like I said, I certainly agree that solo queue has its frustrations, but what exactly are BHVR supposed to do about bad teammates? The changes that need to be made to solo queue have nothing to do with the quality of your random teammates, they're just the risk you agree to take when you queue up on your own.
I also don't fully agree that they've buffed camping, btw. Against Leatherface yes, but against most other killers they've made rescuing against a camper more effective, so it mostly breaks out even.
If they had buffed solo queue in this patch, which would look like the status icons on the portrait and other things like showing your teammate's perks in the match details, would that have changed any of your examples?
-
One build I think will definitely fall in the "funny gimmick build" category is bringing both Self-Care and Bite the Bullet, so you can round a corner after getting hit and be immediately completely silent.
I've seen certain content creators do this with medkits in a healing build, but I think just immediately silencing yourself is funny enough that it doesn't need to be a super viable healing build to be a fun time. Combine it with some chase perks or maybe something for losing your scratch marks/blood pools and it'll be a fun stealth gimmick build.
-
@HexDevourAvocado said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061617#Comment_3061617
Soloq is already unplayable.
Game 1. You die first hook
Game 2. No one is doing gens
Game 3 . They t-bag you and refuse to unhook.
Game 4 . No one is taking a hit or hook when needed
Game 5 . You get camped .You match with players who do not know how to counter an m1 camper.
Game 6 . You trade,so your team can reset.They doing noed but they are just t-bagging at the door.So noones saving.
Game 7 .Your teammate clearly avoids to take the BT hit.
Game 8 . Your teammate is always aroudn for a flashlight save that doesn't know how to pull and ends up body blocking while looping.
Game 9 . You teammate leaves 3 people to die while he has time to pick someone up but he chooses not to.
Game 10 . The meg refuses to heal you. Ofc you won't find Claudette cause she is somewhere in the corner of the map.
Game 11 . You have a decent game where everyone's trying.
Game 12. You get tunneled and Bill doesn't 99 the door,so your team doesn't have enough time.Then he says in chat that his gameplay was more skilled than the 5 gen chase,because he escaped.
Game 13 .You gen is 99 But ofc your teammate will activate Dead Man's.
Game 14 . You mate did an 1 gen chase but now half of the map is a huge ass dead zone.
and I can just keep going with my latest games.And usually all of these happen together in one match at times.
So yep.
Soloq is unplayable for me,because matchmaking is really bad.
But obviously behavior thinks that a 100hrs gamer has same knowledge as a 5k hours gamer.
We all make mistakes but in a 3 hours gamplay to have just maximum 5 good games,is mentally exhausting.
Also dont get me started with the rage quitts and suicides on first hook.
I dont care if they can loop or not but at least do not keep hooks and health states for next game ffs.
But oh well,
Escaping by being in the corner of the map whole game is a skilled play.
And yes soloq will be even more unbplayable with next patch.Because on top of this we will face a good thana legion or a plague.
And more face campers.
I never cared about camping,i just moved to the next game but camping ON TOP OF ALL OF THIS,is not something I am gonna keep putting myself into.
There are streamer with 10k horus who can still somehow menatlly handle all this,prolly cause is their job.
But I'm out.
Also I think everyone needs to stop taking a side ,cause playing killer is as stressfull,and i genuinly think that even behind a face camper can be the most wholesome person ull meet.
But when it comes to gameplay and dbd itself,I'm out.
Because I can never play both sides and have a good time.
Upcoming patch is great.They listened and Is much appriciated.But fixing one side and ignoring the basic ,routed problems within the game (which have nothing to do with perks),creates bad experiences anyways.
I personally feel sad,cause it is my favorite game.But it has becoem really toxic.And time I spent playing dbd ,it should be time where I am having fun.And I am not.
...Genuine question, what does any of that have to do with this patch? Nothing in those games you outlined is being affected by this upcoming patch, except for that Dead Man's Switch can't be paired with Pain Res anymore so you'll probably see it less, which is an improvement.
I certainly agree solo queue has its unique frustrations, but those frustrations just aren't affected by this upcoming patch either way, with one exception - you are getting the improvements of not needing to rely on teammates for safe unhooks and a few nice perk buffs to play around with. So, the downsides are largely unaffected, and you are getting some improvements in other areas... that sounds like a good thing to me.
Sure, Thana Legion/Plague is gonna be annoying, but... it's only 2% and Thana Legion/Plague is already annoying, I don't really think that's the biggest deal- the patch is still overall very good for both sides.
-
@AnchorTea said:
@jesterkind has good, well thought-out opinions on changes. It's never black and white from them.
Aw, thanks! I appreciate the kind words :D
-
@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061617#Comment_3061617
Because killers have 50 more seconds to camp?
Sure, but if you actually go for the save, it'll be more effective- and even if it weren't that's one downside that doesn't offset the positives being brought.
It certainly doesn't make survivor or solo-queue unplayable.
-
I'm still surprised more than one or two people think this patch is going to make survivor unplayable. While reading all of it the only thought I had about survivor was "damn i'm gonna play some more after this patch hits", since I won't have to rely on teammates as much for a few key things and the perk buffs (mostly) look quite nice.
I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why survivor players, especially solo queue players, should even be unhappy about this patch at all, let alone this mad.
-
@DeathByBJ224 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3057920#Comment_3057920
see this is what a killer main would say to jusitfy anything to watch survivor mains fail.
should of just kept the 1 second instead of the 0.5. and also don.t forget about hit validation and lag as well. this is not going to make the game healthy
I really feel like the absence of Dead Hard will be healthier. It's not really a case of bias, if you take a step back and look at what Dead Hard was like over the last few years you'll see pretty clearly that it needed to go.
The worst case scenario is that nobody ever uses the new Dead Hard and that's still healthier than where we are on the live servers. Like I said, we'll have to see how it functions on the live servers to see if that's the case.
-
@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060927#Comment_3060927
Overcharge wasn't a meta perk. My guess, is after this buff, which turns it into a mini-hex: ruin that you can't destroy, will turn it into a meta perk very quickly.
If you can't see how strong Overcharge is in this patch, then you aren't paying attention.
- Hex: Ruin was nerfed, so something has to fill it's place.
- Overcharge's regression after 12 seconds, is the exact same as Hex: Ruin.
- Every time you kick a gen, you get an extra 2.5% regression
- If a player misses the skill check, there's another 5.0% regression
- You kick gens 10% faster
- Overcharge has synergies with a whole bunch of other slow down perks
Overcharge has been seriously underestimated in it's power by a bunch of players already and it's getting significant buffs (From a killer player that uses this perk currently). This will be one of the go to killer perks for slowdown this patch.
It takes 12 seconds for Overcharge to get back up to the base regression rate, it takes 30 seconds for it to get to old Ruin levels.
The fact that it starts the regression much slower than without any perk at all is what I think will stop people from running it unless they're combining it with Call of Brine. It's not a bad perk, but personally I don't think it'll make it into the meta.
-
No, not at all.
Boons are designed (for the most part) around being continual slowdown from survivors who want to keep their buffs active, and that's a good enough idea that I think BHVR should be leaning into it instead of giving up on it and nuking boons from orbit like that.
-
It would be kinda weird for them to increase the cap for some categories but not all categories, right?
Anyway, the categories themselves aren't the issue, in my opinion. Yes, there are games where you can't get much in one category, but that's why raising the cap on all categories means you aren't shafted quite as much- you can earn an extra 2k doing the thing you've been pigeonholed into doing, they even said as much themselves.
The categories do exist to encourage people to do different things in the match, there's no "allegedly" about it. In most matches you do have the freedom to at least contribute a little to all four- the point of raising the caps isn't so that people will actually max all four out in a match, it's there to make not being able to max out one or two categories less of a big deal and to speed up the levelling process via making sure you consistently have more BP.
It's not the last step that could be taken to improve the levelling system to complement the grind reduction, but it isn't three steps backwards either. No categories at all might be nicer, emphasis on the "might", but that doesn't make this change bad, it just makes it... a different direction.
-
It's not like I have a group I can play with instead, lol.
This is a huge "if", though. Based on what we know solo queue is set to get a little easier, at least in the avenues that balance changes can actually affect- obviously nothing's going to ensure my teammates play well, but outside that things are looking good.
-
@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060192#Comment_3060192
Self Care got a bad rap because it was misused. Yes, they did buff perks. The problem was they never nerfed the meta ones. At least not to a significant degree.
...You're going to have to run that by me again. All the meta perks got nerfed.
-
@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059959#Comment_3059959
Because hopefully they also buffed other perks to be inclined with the power of the nerfed ones? Let's face it. There's alot of bad perks in this game and there shouldn't be any. Something as atrocious as new Self Care or Calm Spirit should never have made it to live.
Self-Care was shockingly bad already, and people still used it. That one needed to be gutted even if all others didn't, because people still insisted on using it for some godforsaken reason.
Calm Spirit was intended to be a buff, to be fair. Not a nerf.
And, y'know, they did? They did buff other perks to make them more attractive, on top of the multitude of perks that are nice and provide clear value but couldn't compete with the power creep of the current meta.
-
@BlueRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059986#Comment_3059986
You said in your last post that if they were still viable ppl would still use them. So if they are nerfed to be not viable then they are useless. At least that is how I see it. Either way, I honestly don't care that much I just don't agree with this way of balancing. To me, all perks no matter what they are should be viable and offer some usefulness. The nerf to meta perks kinda goes against this since they are making them more or less not viable so why then why should they exist?
They need to be made weaker, that doesn't mean they're useless. Most of them are still usable, they're just explicitly no longer the strongest options, because if they were even close this would be a failure.
If you have nothing else to use, or you're doing an adept, they'll still do something. Hell, I don't think any of them outside of maybe Ruin and Self-Care are even all that bad, most of them are still "fine".
-
@BlueRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059959#Comment_3059959
When I see someone say this I can't help to think "Why not just delete them from the game then?" If you want ppl to stop using these perks I would rather see them either completely reworked or just deleted. I personally don't like the idea of perks being made completely useless to make ppl stop using them. I agree the meta needed a change but I just don't like the idea behind the changes they made. X is useless now and Y going to replace X. Then in few years Y is going to be made useless for Z to replace Y. I rather see all perks being somewhat useful and have a lot of options when it comes to build/loadout making.
Because they still need to exist...?
Besides, X isn't being made useless so Y can replace it. X is being made dramatically less useful so that you can pick between Y, Z, B, H, or U without feeling like you're giving up on the strongest available tools.
(There are a handful of one to one replacements, like OTR for DS, but for the most part there's variety in your available options.)
-
@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059126#Comment_3059126
Many meta perks needed a nerf. Not to be made so terrible nobody will run them.
If, after the nerfs, they were still viable and good... why would anyone stop using them?
-
@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059812#Comment_3059812
The fact that it didn't cost real money has nothing to do with the P3 reward though?
I'm talking about rewarding the efforts put by people towards the game, which can be measured in bloodpoints and time.
The cost was only relevant insofar as a real arcade machine, the thing I was using in my analogy, has a real-money cost. I anticipated that it might be brought up that you'd be spending money on a real arcade machine, thus making the badge being insulting slightly less of an insane viewpoint, so I mentioned it just to be clear that it wasn't relevant to the point I was making.
The cost then became a talking point because it was the only thing you responded to. I absolutely agree it's irrelevant.
-
@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059627#Comment_3059627
Prestiging wasn't free. That's the whole point of it. You used to lose addons, items, offerings and perks in the process and had to start over.
1.5 million bloodpoints to get from level 1 to level 50.
Reset, lose addons, items, offerings and perks.
1.5 million bloodpoints to get from P1 level 1 to P1 level 50.
Reset, lose addons, items, offerings and perks.
1.5 million bloodpoints to get from P2 level 1 to P2 level 50.
Reset, lose addons, items, offerings and perks.
Ok, now you're P3 level 1.
Total bloodpoints used in the process: 4.5 millions.
So yeah, prestiging wasn't free. At all.
What I'm asking is a bit more compensation for the 4.5 million bloodpoints you had to throw out the window to get to P3. Bloodpoints or iridescent shards would be fine. Kind of like the town saying "Oh you know what, for the people who played so much at that arcade machine and made it to the leaderboard, we're giving you X tokens you can use to play at the new arcade machine we put there."
And to ######### remove the cap of 9 prestige levels to the catch up mechanic, because that really makes no sense and i would like to know why anyone would ever defend that decision.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059671#Comment_3059671
Who said newbies shouldn't be ranting?
The stupid prestige tax doesn't make sense, you're forced to spend 10 more levels per character to unlock their perks and you cann't even choose which ones to unlock. Feel free to rant, you have all my support.
It's free because it doesn't cost real money, which is what would be relevant to the analogy. Feel free to substitute any amount of in-game money you like for the hypothetical arcade machine because it literally couldn't matter less.
-
@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059314#Comment_3059314
No, no, I'm fully fine with how they are doing the catch up mechanic for people who didn't prestige, they are getting the best deal and I'm happy for them.
I'm NOT fine with the efforts of the other people being brushed off like it was nothing.
I prestiged because it was the only way to get the bloody cosmetics. Now everyone gets that without losing addons and bloodpoints. I'm fine with that, but at least recognize my efforts in a proper way.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059430#Comment_3059430
Nope, your comparison is missing a few points:
It would be more like this:
The town organises a race or a treasure hunt and says that there will be a prize for whoever participates in it.
Someone cares about the prize, so they train, participate and even manage to win it.
Someone else doesn't even bother to participate and while the other train they go out for drinks or partying
The town decides that the race or treasure hunt was too hard, and gives the prize to everyone. People who didn't even bother to participate included.
People who won complain to the town.
The town gives them a sticker and calls it a day.
Now people who most likely didn't even bother to partecipate in the race are telling people who won it that they are being petty and should settle for the useless sticker.
This is more akin to what happened
Close, but not quite.
The better analogy than that would be that the town had kept an old arcade machine running for a while, that most people kind of ignored but some did spend some time playing for fun. The town decides to replace the arcade machine with a new one, and decides to also give the people who'd racked up some play time a little token of acknowledgement by offering them a little badge. This is announced in advance, so some people shrug and decide to go play it while it's there.
Those who played are then split between people who go "oh neat" and people who get incandescently angry about how supposedly insulting this 'reward' is for something that they were engaging with for its own merits and not because they ever expected or were promised literally anything at any stage.
(This analogy also has a flaw that most arcade machines cost money, but pretend for the sake of argument that this one was free.)
-
@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059528#Comment_3059528
That build isn't equally good at everything because this game is much more than just healing. It only has two slots left for chase, Gen progress, anti tunnel, anti slug, info, or whatever else. This build is going to find itself wanting in at least a few of those areas. However, burning 2 perk slots and my item slot to be a jack of all trades healer seems fine to me.
I had a naive assumption that the devs would realize *why* SC was used as much as it was and either not touch it or give it a small nerf at most. Not... dumpster the perk.
It IS a bad change though. Let's be honest, medkits are the strongest item in the game by a huge margin. Anything that actively discourages you from bringing one had better be really amazing or synergize really hard with other things that encourage using other items... and new Botany does neither.
If they only nerfed SC a little bit, people wouldn't stop using it.
I'm sure you'll find replacements for this build. You aren't lacking in options, if you care to rethink how you approach them, so ultimately re-shifting Botany Knowledge to an altruistic perk is fine. The death of one moderate build is a pretty small price to pay for shaking up the meta and breathing new variety into the game's perk builds, after all.
BK has really strong use cases now, I don't think I'm going to repeat that again after this. Healing your teammates 50% faster with no requirement or condition beyond doing so by hand is a very considerable buff, and it still plays nicely with any healing source that isn't a medkit. That makes it still a very very good perk you just have to use differently.
-
@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059321#Comment_3059321
To your last paragraph: the heck do I do if I want to do both? Best answer I've got is We'll Make It and a medkit... which doesn't function if I'm not the one getting the unhooks... or Desperate Measures and a medkit which barely functions if DM only has one stack.
Currently on the live server I can load up with Botany, SC, and a brown medkit and be pretty good at healing anyone anywhere which is nice and comfy, but no where near meta or OP. Why is my ability to do that getting deleted?
You bring a medkit and sacrifice the upper limits of how good you can be at altruistic healing?
I don't think the concept of "you can't be equally good at everything" is even particularly new for this game. You don't have to bring BK to be acceptably good at healing your teammates- you don't need to bring anything at all, honestly, altruistic heals don't take that long at base. It's a shame your moderate build is going to be shaken up (though since you're using one of the most frequently used perks of all time that really should've been expected), but it's a little disingenuous to act like that was the main function of BK.
Your build isn't unfair. Someone who brings old BK and a green medkit with speed and charge addons is bringing something that's unfair and warrants changing- and that's current BK, not buffed 50% BK.
Like I said, you personally not wanting to use it doesn't make this a bad change.
-
This has been gone over multiple times- basically, it categorically isn't cheating by definition and it's also explicitly allowed by the developers, so there's not much conversation to be had beyond how best to bridge the information gap. A conversation that doesn't require the false assertion that comms are cheating.
Brief side note but adding voice comms to the game by default wouldn't even come close to fixing the problem, it's not even a logical solution, let alone the only one.
-
Some of them should, absolutely.
Weighing upsides and downsides to the thing you want to use is an extremely common and accepted method of game design, there's nothing wrong with it at all.
-
@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059243#Comment_3059243
The "acknowledgement" of prestige is only tangentially related to prestige? Does that make any sense to you? If it's only slightly related to prestige than what is it strongly related to?
Yes, it's "personal", which is exactly my point. "Personal prestige" is an oxymoron, like a "working vacation" or "instant classic".
It's related to the prestige only to acknowledge that you participated in the old prestige system.
It is not a part of the prestige system.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059126#Comment_3059126
Yikes.
Wihle it is true that the strongest Perks need some Nerfs and the weaker Perks need some Buffs to change the Meta, the way the Devs did it is just wrong.
They did not nerf the strong Perks, they nuked them. I mean, look at DS - there is 0 point in using DS now. People who played after DS got the Unhook-requirement will already know that 3 seconds is not enough. There is almost no distance gained. Before DS was already useless against the strongest Killers, now it is useless against basically every Killer.
The goal should be to offer ALTERNATIVES to DS and not to replace it with Off the Record.
Same on the Killers side, Ruin got nuked. But you will just replace it with another Slowdown-Perk. Whats the point when the only reason for doing that is to brag about "We changed the Meta!", when their decisions are just stupid? Especially because on the Killers side, nothing changed, it will just be 4 different Slowdown-Perks now. (And even worse - stacking Slowdown-Perks is even more advised because of the BBQ-Nerf).
So, if you think that it is "admirably" to go the super-lazy way of nuking Perks into being useless so that players are forced to run other Perks (without even addressing the reason why those Perks are used, this is something they also talked about, but this does not happen. At least I dont see any meaningful Anti-Tunnel-mechanic in the game...), then you are easily impressed...
Yep, they did indeed do it properly by nuking the meta perks, you're correct.
The only perk that has a one-to-one replacement now is DS -> OTR, the rest I think are definitely far more up in the air. It's fair that some kind of anti-tunnel is going to be in the meta for survivors, but now there's room for more variety in Exhaustion perks, more variety in stealth perks now that there isn't one clear perfect choice, more variety in healing perks... for survivor it's unambiguously been done well. Heck, you might not even see that much OTR with the new anti-tunnel mechanic, though I'm sure plenty of people will like the increased safety net they'll get from OTR. No judgement- I'll run it too lol.
For killer, I'll cede that we'll probably still see a fair amount of slowdown perks, but that they'll be different perks and every killer who wanted to branch out now can more safely, it's still at worst a partial success.
So yes, I do think this is done well. They shook up the meta and provided more variety in what tools you can bring for any given purpose. That's what they meant to do.
-
@Confused_Senpai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059126#Comment_3059126
I'd have to respectfully disagree because the whole thing missing here is the Choice aspect of play and buffs and nerfs shouldn't happen in a vacuum where player choice is discounted entirely, by nerfing perks into the ground and making players switch off of the perks they love due to them being all but useless is pigeonholing them into other perks instead of making all perks equally viable where the players are free to choose whatever perks they want based on situations they expect to encounter rather than strength of said perk, if you always nerf the meta which will absolutely ALWAYS exist then you might as well just get rid of perks altogether (Not trying to be dramatic here) Because eventually in the pursuit of "Shaking up the meta" you will cause the ripple effect of everything being equally as crap.
I think you're being a little too binary here.
It's not "nerf the meta perks" OR "buff other perks to make them viable", you do both- which is what they've been doing, they just can't buff everything all at once for multiple reasons. The fact of the matter is, the current meta is both stale and unhealthy, so it has to be nerfed from any direction you care to look.
THE meta will not always exist. A meta will always exist. When that one inevitably gets stale, switch it all up again. That's how it works elsewhere and how it should work here.
-
@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059302#Comment_3059302
How is this not being clear to you guys? Sure, I could pair Botany with We'll Make It, Desperate Measures, and Empathetic Connection... but I could also pair those Perks with a medkit instead and have even better healing that I can use on myself if necessary, which is just better.
Running new Botany with a medkit is a bad idea, so obviously the question to answer is when would I rather have Botany over a medkit. I personally am coming up with nothing.
If you pair those perks with a medkit, you will eventually run out of charges. Maybe you've got a good one with some solid addons so that's less likely, but if you bring Botany Knowledge instead, you'll have a permanent 50% healing boost and have your item slot cleared up for something else.
The answer to "When would you rather have Botany over a medkit" is "when you want to be a team healer", or "when you want to make CoH better". It has a use- maybe you personally won't use it, but to claim that it couldn't be used effectively by anyone is just blatantly false.
If you want to heal yourself, bring a medkit. If you want to heal others (or pair with CoH), bring Botany Knowledge. I'm not sure how that isn't clear to people.
-
@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059279#Comment_3059279
No... the synergies are not there period.
The only two Perks in the game that would prefer Botany over a medkit is Solidarity and the now butchered Self Care. That's it. And they suck.
As well as anything else that boosts healing speeds in general. Not to mention that it is now a dramatically better pick on its own for healing your teammates, since a 50% boost is enough that it's going to give you pretty noticeable value on altruistic heals if you bring nothing else to supplement it.
Since that's what it's for now. Altruistic heals, the kind you probably aren't using a medkit for anyway.
-
@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059042#Comment_3059042
Except the synergies aren't there. At the moment, every good healing perk works with medkits so it is just a question of do you want BK or a medkit.
Now, if they buffed some stuff so a hand healing build was an option, then count me in.
Stuff like making Solidarity do 75%, Botany doubles the chance of skill checks so it plays nice with Autodidactic, Autodidactic buffed so it essentially starts with one token, SC buffed up a bit to 40% instead of 35%... then I could see Botany being anti medkit.
The synergies aren't there for healing yourself. They very much are there for healing others, because a flat 50% increase is a pretty huge deal. It'll also play really nicely with Circle of Healing, as that doesn't require using a medkit to get the self-heal ability and already provides a boost for healing others.
Botany Knowledge is not dead. Hell, it already makes perks like Solidarity more appealing on its own, because while Solidarity only heals up to half, getting up to half 50% faster shaves even more time off the return heal. I'm not at all against these options being buffed (except SC, that needed to be nuked), but it's just an overreaction to say that BK is being ruined, plain and simple.
-
I can answer some of these!
Lucky Break has a total duration. Say you get injured and run away from the killer, losing them due to being very stealthy, and then heal up straight away- say that takes about 20 seconds Lucky Break's timer then pauses. Next time you're injured, you'll have the remaining 40 seconds of Lucky Break. It's a timer that ticks down while you're injured, not an effect duration each time you get hit, if that makes sense? With this new change, you'll be able to refill the timer, like putting sand back in an hourglass' top bulb.
Off The Record has its effects cancelled if you perform what's called a "Conspicuous Action" - basically, the same actions that deactivate Decisive Strike. So technically you can get 95 seconds of Endurance, but you would have to never touch a generator, start healing someone, touch a totem, etc etc. Realistically you'll be getting much less than the full 80 seconds of Endurance there.
As for Iron Will, I doubt it'll make a distinction. If you're Exhausted, it turns off, regardless of the source.
-
@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059198#Comment_3059198
"You are the only person who it's relevant to." - refer to dictionary definition. If it's only shown to me, than it has nothing to do with prestige.
But it doesn't? It's only tangentially related to the prestige system, it's a personal acknowledgement that you participated in the previous prestige system.
It - and any other reward they'd come up with - is just a little badge for you to show the dev's acknowledgement that you were playing and prestiging before the change. That's it, that's all this is meant to achieve, I'm flummoxed at how mad some people are managing to be about this.
-
@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059186#Comment_3059186
I'm reffering to the new red scratch mark background, which is still hidden.
But the point of that gift is to show acknowledgement of effort, the definition of "prestige" is completely irrelevant here. It's not for that, it's just a little badge you get because you put in a lot of effort.
You are the only person who it's relevant to.
-
I'm not sure what you mean-- your Prestige level is shown in the endgame screen, so people absolutely can see your ""achievement"" there?
-
Yes, I'd suggest you wait. Right now if you prestige, you'll lose all your stuff and your perk slots will be locked until levels 5/10/15 again, but if you prestige after the update you won't lose anything at all.
-
Respectfully I disagree.
If all you do is buff less frequently used perks, nobody will swap off their meta loadouts because they'd have no reason to. Even if you buffed less frequently used perks to be as absurdly strong as the current meta loadouts, that's not going to fix the problem because you just have the current problems on top of new ones.
In order to shake up a meta effectively you have to nerf the most commonly used things, and quite noticeably to boot. Otherwise it's shifting the responsibility of the supposed shakeup onto players to choose to stop using their same-old same-old, which they're just not going to do en masse.
The goal was to make players run different perks, and I think they achieved that admirably. In some cases it's a one to one swap, but there's still going to be more room for experimentation and variety here.
-
While Calm Spirit doesn't need a penalty that steep (or even possibly at all), hearing people cleansing totems and opening chests absolutely happens every once in a while, so being able to do those things silently isn't nothing. Still, the 30% debuff to those action speeds is not a great change.
Botany Knowledge, though, this perk change is an actively great one. Taking away its synergy with medkits will go a long way towards curbing the rampant problem with self-heal speeds in this game, and since it had its healing speed buff increased, it's now even better at healing your teammates-- on top of being something you can pair with CoH for faster speeds there too. It's a perk that now has a niche that is both way more fair, and where it's more effective than before.
Iron Will is still good and Self-Care needed a nerf so people would stop using it, too.
Solo queue will be fine. They still have plenty of tools to cover the actual gaps of solo play.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058904#Comment_3058904
Yes, it was Botany’s one thing. It allowed a survivor to pair it with a First Aid Kit (yellow), with no other healing perks, and get two full self-heals out of 24 charges. It brought value to the Gauze Roll add-on, which adds 12 charges. If I want to heal others quickly, it’s going to be We’ll Make It for 100% faster healing or Circle of Healing so we can all heal ourselves.
Yeah, CoH and Botany will be a fast heal, but requires two slots. Which is fine. But this nerf kills any build that only featured Botany with a medkit.
"[...]this nerf kills any build that only featured Botany with a medkit"
Yes. Don't use it for that anymore. Realise its potential for other things.
In general, killing the standard common builds is the point of this update. This is one of the better changes- it keeps a good perk very good, better than before even, but pushes players to use it differently and to find other tools to fill the niche that it once had. That's a good thing, not a bad thing, as unlike other perks Botany Knowledge gets to still be very very good, just shifted to a different role.
If you want more self-heals, bring something like Streetwise or Built to Last. If you want fast healing specifically for healing your teammates or you want to pair something with CoH to further make the time investment break even, bring Botany Knowledge.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058881#Comment_3058881
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058890#Comment_3058890
Please explain to me how Built to Last and Streetwise - perks that benefit all items (and in the case of Streetwise, even those of all nearby allies) - are going to be more beneficial than a perk that currently only helps medkits. And how the devs plan to get around someone using or acquiring a Camping Aid Kit or Emergency Medkit with only Botany Knowledge equipped being unable to fully self-heal. All they are doing is killing Botany (at the very least for solo players, who needed it the most in the light of the Self-Care nerf) - which was not even meta!
It is simply illogical to make a perk handicap the user. It’s why you never see No Mither. Why we’ll never see Calm Spirit - an already obscurely used perk itself. Autodidact. We could be here all day.
...Because they're perks that revolve around item efficiency and new Botany Knowledge is a perk that affects non item healing? I'm not sure what you're even asking here, it's not as though Botany had its one thing taken away and now it's useless. It's not even like Calm Spirit where its new downside actually affects what it's used for.
You bring Botany if you want to heal other people quickly, or if you want to make better use out of self-healing with something like CoH. Those are both very, very strong uses of Botany Knowledge, the perk has not been killed even slightly.
Also, solo queue players do not need and have never needed either Self-Care or Botany Knowledge. BK did help, but SC has always been an active detriment for all but the very few who knew how to use it properly. Solo queue players ""need"" a method to heal themselves in the clutch scenarios where teammates aren't around, and there are still plenty of those.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058661#Comment_3058661
No, they should just remove these stupid nerfs from it and Calm Spirit - period. The definition of a perk: “an advantage or benefit following from a job or situation.” So why are so many survivor perks being turned into something that actually puts the user at a disadvantage? Who in their right mind thought it was ok for Botany to go from giving a 33% medkit efficiency, to not only removing it but adding a 20% medkit penalty to the perk user? The devs are sacrificing perk variety all in the name of shaking the meta - which is still going to result in mostly seeing the same 12 or so perks on each side at the end of the day anyway!
Stop nerfing fine perks out of existence, BHVR!
The people who thought that are the ones who understood that even current Botany with medkits is obscene.
It's not being baselessly nerfed, it's being retooled to an altruistic healing perk. It'll still affect non-medkit self-healing avenues too, so it's far from killing the perk; it's still going to be really good.
-
@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058698#Comment_3058698
Well, since prestiging has a cost now (that's necessary for the bloodpoint economy apparently) yes, it makes a difference.
People already sunk millions and millions of bloodpoints for getting all the perks on a P3 character, and they're being told "Lol that doesn't matter anymore, bringing someone to P1 has the same effect"
You want an idea for an alternative reward that is not too exclusive? Consider this:
Prestiging ONCE costs around 1.5 million bloodpoints
Why not giving out 500k bloodpoints per prestige level prior to the update to reward those efforts? Not exclusive, everyone still need bloodpoints to level up the other characters they have, people who didn't prestige never wasted those bloodpoints in the first place so they should be fine with it
(And noone said giving out the prestige portrait means they can't give out anything else at the same time)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058735#Comment_3058735
So there's no difference between a person who has a character to P3 level 1, and a person who has a character to P3 all perks
Cool, cool
Why are they giving out prestige levels based on perk tiers to people who didn't prestige at all since getting all the perks has no meaning apparently?
...What? The cost it'll have after the update has literally zero bearing on the effort it took to prestige before the update, I'm genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make here?
It never mattered. The only reason you'd prestige is for the cosmetics or just for completion, you already got what you wanted out of the exchange.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that no recognition at all would be a 100% acceptable outcome, anything they do to show that acknowledgement is extra to the default expectation lol. More BP would be nice, but I can't fathom being mad about this.
-
The fact that you only have to prestige these new characters and then you're done is a vital component of why this grind reduction works, though?
Right now you would have to get a new character to 40 and then go back to every single other character and grind them for god knows how long. This way, it's one and done- that's perfect as far as perk unlocking goes. There's still room to improve stuff like BP gain and node cost, but in terms of unlocking perks, they've already fixed it; the grind will not grow over time the way it does right now.
-
Does it matter, though? P9 is the last one that actually gives you any kind of reward, so exceeding it wouldn't exactly give you anything.
As for the portrait thing, I don't see what else they could've done without it being something too exclusive. Maybe a post-trial icon, but I don't really consider that necessarily better than the portrait thing.
-
Making the current meta dramatically less attractive is a necessary step in shaking up the meta, it's very very far away from bad design. People won't swap to new options if their old options are still good.