dugman
dugman
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705227#Comment_1705227
Yes, and that's with hatch.
I highly doubt you're correct then. Think about it this way, if Red Rank killers are all averaging 3-4 kills per match against full groups of red rank survivors that would mean that full groups of red rank survivors are averaging less than 1 escape per match. There's zero evidence that that's the case. Please, if you can find any data to support your claim that red rank killers beat red rank survivors nearly all the time I'd love to see it.
What is much, much more likely is that the average in the All Ranks chart is simply being shifted up 10% because it's reflecting higher rank killers facing a combination of both high rank and mid/low rank survivors. So it's probably more like Red Rank killers have about a 55-60% kill rate and get about 2 - 2.5 kills on average versus red rank survivors. And the chart is simply showing that, as expected, red rank survivors trounce lower rank groups more easily than that.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705200#Comment_1705200
Yes I do, Clown is amazing at slowing survivors. Shouldn't they struggle some if it is a top group?
Lol, ok, and what about literally every other killer in that list. They all average more than 3 kills per match in the Red Rank chart. You're telling me that literally every killer is getting 3+ kills most of the time against full red rank groups?
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@Sluzzy said:
I'm pretty sure that was all players in red ranks. Killers are overperforming. The only thing keeping Freddy at 75% is the hatch.
I get that you think killers are overperforming, but do you honestly think Clown and Legion and Plague and Demogorgon are -averaging- 3 kills per match against red rank survivors?
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In case anybody is curious about the numbers, by the way, if a killer hits a survivor the killer scores 300 points. But survivors who escape a killer during a chase earn 400 points. So if a healthy survivor is standing in the exits and you run up and hit them, you're effectively losing 100 points to that survivor and 400 points to any other survivors in the Exit that you don't happen to hit at all. Plus if any of the survivors happen to be injured they can also score 200 points for getting a Protection Hit as well. (All this is give or take the 8k limits of course)
Basically in terms of trying to win on score it's a losing game chasing healthy survivors in the Exits. If someone is injured in the Exits then it may be worth chasing them out if you think you can stop them from getting the 750 point heal bonus (although you as a killer also score points when a survivor is healed depending on how long they were injured so it might be a wash), but otherwise you're better off scoring points elsewhere as the killer since the other avenues don't raise their scores relative to your own. You can get 100 points per pallet, 250 points for closing the hatch, and depending on your killer you can score a few hundred points just using your ability (depending on whether or not you're at the 8k cap yet) and the survivors get no points in those processes.
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@Rockatansky said:
God forbid Killers just walk forward and chase them out instead of complaining about it on every forum known to man.
Why chase them out when I can go around the map and break pallets or close the hatch or use my ability to get points as well?
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I just ignore survivors wasting time in the Exits, no point chasing them and giving them extra points. I'd rather look for the hatch to close it, maybe snag a greedy survivor there, and/or break some pallets and use my ability to get points without raising the survivor's relative endgame scores compared to mine.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705033#Comment_1705033
As I said, asking for additional info would be the right way. It seemed like you were not curious about it in your original post but didn’t believe that chart could be true with all red ranks at all. With the amount of so called „potatoes“ on survivor side, DCs that apparently plague every other match and Ebony moris it’s not too far fetched for this to be true
i do think we need more details for these graphs though! I never said anything against just asking for info
and I also think -and this is not directed towards you but generally- people would not accept graphs that show results that differ from their subjective view (eg 3 kills average for red ranks)
I'm not sure why my original post would sound like I'm not interesting in how the new chart would differ (or even more interesting and unexpected if it didn't differ) but whatever. 🤷♂️
And yeah, I never intended my request to be some sort of silver bullet to end internet debates about DbD. I'm not looking to change the community, I'm asking mainly to satisfy my own curiosity and I figure if I'm wondering about it there are probably other people wondering the same thing too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Nah, according to this, killers are getting between 2 to 3 kills every game. Seems pretty balanced to me. I'm pretty sure that if we take out Moris of this discussion the kill rates drop a lot.
Btw, why does no one play Demoboi? :(
It's not Moris, it's that it's all Red Rank killer games, including all the ones they have versus green and purple and brown rank survivors. A Red Rank killer tends to stomp lower ranks on average. (Yeah there are exceptions but in general when you watch a game of a red rank killer versus, say, all purples and greens it's a bloodbath.)
And the average in that chart is 68%, ie. more than 3 kills per game on average. (66% would be 3 kills.)
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A couple of things:
- Short answer is "No". The devs said not to read too much into these charts, they're definitely not the sole criteria Behaviour is using to balance killers. It's just some interesting stats for people who are curious.
- If you compare the Red Rank kill rates to the All Rank kill rates you'll notice the Red Rank rates are about 10% higher across the board compared to All Ranks. The most obvious reason for this would be that the chart is showing Red Rank killer games that aren't filtered by survivor ranks. (So it's all Red Rank killer games, including all the ones where they face green and purple and brown rank players.) In general Red Rank killers win a lot on average versus lower rank players, hence the average 3-4 kill rate for all killers on that chart. My guess is if there were a third chart that was specifically Red Rank Killers versus All Red Rank Survivors that the kill rates would be more in line with the All Ranks chart since those survivors would tend to put up more of a fight.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704547#Comment_1704547
Actually yeah i think so.
But that’s more because red rank survivor doesn’t equal high skilled survivor. There are green rank survivors that can loop better than most red ranks.
we don’t know what the current stats really represent. It would be wiser to ask for more background to the variables instead of just assuming something because it doesn’t fit your personal view or the view of the vocal killer sided forum/internet community.
By your logic then red rank killers likewise don't play that well either, right? So again, if you don't think ranks of killers and survivors matter, why would there be a 10% increase in kill rates among red rank killers versus red rank survivors?
And think about what you're saying, you're saying that the -average- result is a 3 kill. For Clown, and Legion, and Plague, etc. Versus Red Rank survivors.
This argument that "we don't know so let's not ask for additional data" is also very strange. They released two charts, which appear to represent All Killers versus All Ranks and Red Rank Killers versus All Ranks. So it's only natural to then be curious about Red Ranks versus Red Ranks.
And guess what, if I'm wrong and that chart is actually Red Ranks vs Red Ranks, great! I'd be really curious to find that out. All the more reason for me to ask about that additional chart then.
Seems to me the only person trying to push an agenda here is you, trying to imply that "ranks don't matter" so "why bother getting any additional data" and "charts mean nothing". If you're not curious about these things that's fine, I happen to be.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703340#Comment_1703340
Fun fact, the previous events were also free, as was the cosmetics at the time
also this isn’t even an event lol
And I care about previous events because...?
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704120#Comment_1704120
You have a narrative: the stats you are seeing don’t show matches against ‚skilled‘ survivors and are flawed because of the low rank survivors.
it’s just an assumption of yours. as far as we know, those stats could very well be just what you are asking for: it’s red ranks for all players included, nothing indicates otherwise.
Where did I say the stats were "flawed"? And yes, I'm assuming that the Red Rank chart is for Red Rank killer matches but isn't filtered for matches where all the players are red rank. Why else would the kill rates be 10% higher across the board? So yeah it's an assumption but I think it's a logical one. (Or do you honestly think that red rank killers average 3 kills per game against groups of all red rank survivors? And I mean every killer - Clown is 66% kill rate on average.)
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@MadLordJack said:
Whats the point? Rank means nothing but playtime.
Rank means a bit more than just playtime. You have to both play a lot and also have a positive emblem record to reach red rank. So it’s an indicator of both overall player experience, which correlates for the most part to skill, and of positive results over time.
Think of it this way, if rank doesn’t mean anything then why does the Red Rank killer chart have a 10% higher kill rate than the All Rank killer chart? If Red Ranks didn’t correlate at all to skill there would be no difference.
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@Mooks said:
I think those stats you are asking for won’t support your narrative any more than the stats we now got.
the problem is that those survivor sided matches people are always talking about are just a symptom of the flawed ranking and matchmaking. It’s mostly that those red tank killers may not be as good as they think they are, even I can get to red rank, on both sides, and I am pretty bad..
What narrative? I’m not pushing any agenda, I’m just curious to see the differences in the numbers.
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If they want it limited maybe instead of “first come first serve” they do it as a raffle style event. Everybody who enters a code is entered in a raffle that triggers at a specified time and a random selection of entrants receive the prize.
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I thought this was going to be about replacing the space bar struggle phase with the skill checks cages use. (I hope they do that eventually, they asked about it in a survey after the Silent Hill patch but haven’t said anything one way or another since then. Might be a good Q&A question....)
Camping a hook is generally a bad strategy if the survivors are smart enough to stay away from it and do the gens for a bit. If the survivors aren’t coming to the killer and they’re just standing around doing nothing at a hook then they’re going to lose the game as the generators fly. You have to go to survivors if they’re not coming to you. (Of course at the very end of the game when the exits are open and one survivor is on hook there’s no reason not to guard that hook. But camping a lone hook midgame is a losing strategy against savvy survivors.)
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@Nilis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704084#Comment_1704084
I've always reported hackers, but always got too upset to remember to report the insulters hahaha. Btw rumour has it the devs rarely pay attention or act up to the people who got reported..... I'm not sure if that's true.
People do get banned, they just don’t tell the person who reported them that it happened.
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I’m not paying that much attention to it honestly one way or another. Couple quick random thoughts
- I kind of wish there was at least a special animation and sound when you hook someone on a blighted hook or kick a blighted generator. If there is one I didn’t spot it. 🤷♂️ It would at least make using those blighted props a little more fun than usual.
- I did notice that the 1000 point bonus you get for hooking someone allows you to get 33k points on the endgame screen which is neat (usually the max is 32k). I kind of wish the handicap style add-ons like Speed Limiter which make you play at a disadvantage in exchange for bonuses to your scoring events worked similarly. If using Speed Limiter or Padded Jaws, etc, let you exceed the 32k max it might make them a little more popular, at least among people who play for endgame score.
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@Nilis said:
I know I know, this is such a old topic.
Just that I think I have a fragile heart when dealing with hostility.
850 hrs into this game, with prob 800 hrs on survivors and 50 hrs on killers, mostly only play killers for the tome quests. (I'm a rank 13 killer and rank 1 survivor, if that means anything)
I like playing survivors because I like the hide-and-seek experience(I solo q most of the time). After 200 hrs I gradually learned how to juke. I did get better at juking, but I juke only for buying my teammates time in hope we do escape in the end but not for bullying the killers.
Some other survivor players enjoy different aspect of being a survivor, which is bullying the killer. That's totally understandable. People have fun from different things, there's no way for me to judge other people's ways of having fun, however, I can't cope well with the toxicity I receive when certain people are having fun.
For example, the killer game that I just played 5 minutes ago, which is what triggered me to post this. I tried playing Piggy for the first time. I think I did alright for a first timer that didnt tryhard. I was practicing using her dash attack most of the time, ignored some of the chances where i could 'melee' attack, yet still got 10 downs. However, there's always someone flashsaving. They flashsaved 7 times so I only hooked 3 times.
I know, it's my own fault for not dodging a lobby with this many flashlights. I was feeling a little annoyed, but alright in general because, Kudos to them for having good flashlight timings. And I might be lacking in the experience in dealing with flashlight saves. (all I knew was looking up after picking them up, but this did not help at all cuz they they timed well. and I also tried to face the wall for the pickup whenever I could, which was the only 3 times that i actually hooked them. Yes I was lucky that I downed them near the walls 3 times.
I know there's people gonna tell me It was all my own fault for not checking the surroundings carefully enough everytime before picking someone up. I know. I'm just bad.
In the end I just opened the 99'ed gate for them, downed someone again but chose to let her crawl out, because, 0 kill and 1 kill means no difference to me, and letting one more person to escape can have one less person feeling bad about themselves, right?
Like I said, I was just slightly annoyed for this many flashlight saves. I was outplayed and I'm totally ok with that. But after the game, the swf, including the person that I let go, started insulting me. Not just me, even insulted my parents. (the old 'i slept with your mom' kind of jokes). And yeah, if getting the killer angry is what they want to achieve. I gotta say they did a pretty good job!
I don't play killers that much, but I consider myself a nice killer cuz I never ever camped or tunnelled anyone, because I know those feels whenever I got facecamped/tunnelled as a survivor, I try not to do the same to others. However, I've still received insults after quite a few games. They insult you everytime when you didnt do well, and if you got 4k or 3ks, some of them would still frame you for tunneling (when you didn't at all!).
I really admire people who soldier on through insults....May I ask how you guys usually deal with this? I didn't know how to defend, all I could do was blocking them.....and stop playing for that day.
I think I'm already a lot stronger than before. I still remember the first time I got insulted in a game back in high school. I uninstalled that game and cried for a whole afternoon! facepalm Now I can somewhat calmly type up a post without a single tear shed ahahaha
If players are harrassing you in aftergame chat report them with the ingame ticket (the thumbs down icon next to their name). If they’re harrassing you then they’re doing it to other people too and the only way for customer service to act is if it gets reported.
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That would be interesting as well, it’s been a while since they showed that. (The last time they had a kill rate versus swf chart it had about a 10% survival rate increase for 4-person swfs compared to solo with 2- and - at something like 3% and 8% increases if i remember right. Also it was something like 35% of games have a 2-person swf, 15% a 3- person and 5% a 4-person swf. (I remember the total was 55% of games had a swf of some sort and 5% of all games had a 4-person swf, the other numbers kind of scaled accordingly.)
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@Kamizake12 said:
What's the point? People will still say the're flawed cause those statistic doesn't fit their agenda
I’m not one of those people, at least I hope, and I’d be interested.
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@anarchy753 said:
What, you mean all 5 games in the last year?
There’s way more than 5 all red rank games in the data. There are literally tens of thousands of matches per day and the matchmaking tends to try and put red rank killers versus red rank survivors if possible. I think something like 25% of the playerbase is red rank as well.
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@Mooks said:
How do you know if it is only killer red ranks here?
I assuming it is because all of the kill rates on this chart are about 10% higher across the board compared to the All Ranks chart. If the chart is Red Rank killers versus any survivors then this is exactly what you’d expect to see. Red Red killers versus All Red Rank Survivors should be closer matches, not basically 70% kill rates.
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On a tangent to me basically 0-1 kills are a loss, 3-4 kills are a win, and with 2 kills the game is a tie with the tie breaker being the score. If I get the highest score of all five players in a 2 kill match then I consider it a close win, if I was second highest it’s a close loss, and if the scores are basically the same it’s just a draw. That’s just me though. (I couldn’t care less about pips or “Brutal Killer”, etc)
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The argument that “low pick rate is boosting Pig’s kill rate because only Pig mains play her” is belied by the fact that her pick rate is about the same or greater than Plague, Demogorgon, Hag, Clown, Ghost Face, Hag, Hillbilly and Meyers (about 3% pick rate or less for a couple of these) but her kill rate is at least 3-10% higher than everybody in that list. If her kill rate is getting boosted by having only a roughly 3% kill rate then so are all the other killers I listed, and yet their kill rates are all still lower than hers. So there is actually is something else going on with Pig.
One possibility is that Pig might be really good against average players for some reason. Maybe average players have more trouble dealing with her stealth or don’t know the locations of the boxes very well to get traps off so lose more time from them, for example. This chart is all games among red rank killers, but it’s not filtered for only games with likewise all red rank survivors, so it’s including a ton of games where you have a red rank killer versus teams that include lower rank survivors. (That’s why the kill rates on this chart are about 10% higher across the board compared to the other charts which showed all games from all killers.) So if Pig is better than most killers against typical players that would raise her kill rate in this picture, even if she might hypothetically have a lower kill rate than other killers against all red rank survivor teams.
What I’d be really curious to see from Ethan who gave us this chart is a third chart which is filtered strictly for games where all five players are red rank. I think that would give a bit of a better indication of what the killers look like at high levels of play. (You’ll still see Nurse and Blight toward the bottom, though, due to their steeper learning curves and Blight still being fairly new.)
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I think the one aspect of Legion that is a little underrated is their ability to use Frenzy for map traversal in a pinch. It’s not as consistent as Blight or Billy’s map traversal but it’s still better than just walking if you really, really need to get to a particular spot that’s within a 10 second sprint. For comparison to Blight, the downsides are
- It has a longer cooldown
- Legion’s sprint is more maneuverable, which is good in a chase, but is slower which makes it a bit weaker for long distance travel
- Legion’s fatigue when the Frenzy ends is a bit longer than Blight’s.
If you crunch the numbers, in fact, Legion’s fatigue after a Frenzy wipes out the movement speed bonus if they are trying to travel a really, really long distance (more than a single Frenzy sprint burst which I think is about 65 meters). So really its sweet spot for traversal is up to about 40-60 meters, about half the length of the map, followed hopefully by a quick Deep Wound when you get there.
Of course if everybody is already injured then, when you get where you’re going, you’ll end up probably either cancelling your ability and starting a chase possibly doing a Deep Wound on an injured survivor first just to give them a reason not to do the gens while you are recovering from Frenzy fatigue. But again, it’s still better to get there quickly and pressure survivors off a gen right away then walking.
On the overall Legion is in that average bucket of killers who are good enough to win if you can outplay the survivors but who don’t have a large margin for error when survivors are playing well. Not trash but also not top tier.
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Yeah I don't get it either really. This particular blight event doesn't really excite me but, hey, it's just a free little thing they're doing in the game so why would I be mad about that? It's not like any of the stuff in the event is needed to play the game one way or another so who cares?
Aside from new killers, honestly the thing I like the most is the Rift journal entries and such. Getting little narrated bits of lore and occasional flash animations is kind of fun. 🙂 Yeah there are cosmetics in the Rift but honestly charms are kind of silly and as a killer you can't even see your skin outside of the menu so that's not a big deal either.
I've definitely gotten my money's worth and more out of this game personally, you'll never hear me gripe about the game being trash or whatever. Sure there are minor things I wouldn't mind seeing tweaked but on the whole it's a fun game with a ton of variety of killers and maps and possible loadouts. So I honestly don't get all the fuss about this event, it's definitely easy enough to ignore if you don't care about it.
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I find killer more enjoyable than survivor in part because as killer you are constantly active the entire match whereas with survivor you have a lot of downtime where you are either just doing a generator or dying on the ground or on a hook. Chases are the most entertaining part of the game and you simply get to be in chases much, much more often as a killer.
So I guess in that sense killer is more “stressful” since you’re always actively chasing or looking for a chase to start, but to me that’s a good thing.
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@IamDwight said:
You can already counter it by baiting it and being more patient. They did imply that it was gonna be changed to work better with Dedicated Servers, so likely less to be exhausted on the ground.
To clarify, they said they are changing Dead Hard but that the reason it is taking a long time to change is because the perk was originally developed to work with killer being the host machine versus dedicated servers so in order to change it they need to reconstruct it from the ground up. But the reason they are changing it isn’t simply to make it “work better with dedicated servers”, it’s probably more to do with its pick rate and escape rate of survivors who have it since that seems to be the underlying metric they’re using to prioritize what perks are tweaked.
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It was fun to finally see a more recent Kill Rates/Pick Rates chart. A couple of off-hand thoughts on it:
- I’m assuming that the Red Rank chart is simply “games that have a killer who is Red Rank” and doesn’t have have any filters on the ranks of the survivors. That would explain why all the kill rates are significantly higher across the board compared to the “All Ranks” chart since the red rank killers often face opponents who aren’t themselves red ranked.
- Nurse is obviously an example of a killer who is extremely hard to learn but has high potential. (This was talked about in the video as well) This is also I think what is going on with Blight in this chart, he has a fairly steep learning curve when it comes to actually being able to consistently land his Lethal Rush hits off of “bank shots”. I think it’s going to be that ability to use bank shots to do hits after sharp 90 to 180 degree turns is going to be what really separates the average Blight players from the top ones.
- Most of the killers are basically where I would expect them, essentially in a big bucket of “good enough to win the match if you play well”. The one surprise for me in the chart is how high Pig is in the kill rates. I like Pig, I’ve done ok with her, but she’s never struck me as being one of the top two or three killers. She even beats Spirit in both charts, good job Amanda! 😄
- I also think this chart shows how good the new version of Bubba is. He honestly wasn’t THAT bad before his buff, now he’s pretty top notch.
- And no surprise to me that Freddy is the top killer on both charts, He’s both easy to learn and gets great results when you play well with him. His mobility is just a bit worse than Blight but still pretty awesome and he has excellent anti-loop capability. If any killer is eventually going to be up for a slight nerf it’ll be him.
Also aside from the chart, regarding Ethan’s comments on Object of Obsession, it wasn’t clear exactly to what extent or if he considered specifically results bucketed by the size of swfs in a group. It sounded a bit like he simply examined overall escape rates of survivors that had Object versus survivors that didn’t, but that would fail to account for a couple of things:
- The possible issue with Object is that it could be perfectly reasonable in a solo group but its effectiveness rises dramatically in a group where the Object is part of a swf. If the perk is “broken” it is specifically in the context of being within a swf, so if any adjustment needed to be made it would be one to reduce its effectiveness for swfs but leave it still a good perk overall. If you just lump all the games with Object together though without pivoting out for swf composition that disparity wouldn’t be apparent in the results.
- If Ethan examined the escape rate specifically of the Object player themselves it might not appear to have an issue or even appear to be underperforming since the Object is the most likely player to die early compared to the other survivors. It would be important to examine overall escape rates or endgame scores of the survivors as a group rather than just the Object since the Object’s “job” is to help the group at potentially their own expense.
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@KaarelK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685785#Comment_1685785
It wasn't planned. Its like a child you got by banging the maid.
Playing in swf is not the problem. Playing in swf and using the comms is the problem. You must be new to the game.
They added swf because players were going through lobbies to find their friends and queue times were so long even though players were constantly joining the looby.
Scroll up to the Q&A #5 where the devs specifically talk about this for 10 minutes and say it was planned.
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Blendette, only because it's the one costume that people intentionally pick simply because it's so difficult to see in dark areas. It's almost like getting a free perk worth of value in terms of stealth just by using that particular skin.
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- Never Stop Slashing not having mask animations despite the fact it is possible to implement such (look at Oni f/e) ...
Oni's face doesn't change expressions, it just adds some fire/flare effects around his head and eyes. (I'm assuming they ran into an issue with Legion's mask actually having a different expression at different times.)
- Spirit shadownerf
It's obviously a bug, not an intentional nerf.
- Discordance needless nerf + dumb distance requirement to force people tier up the perk
I get what they're trying to do, people were intentionally running Discordance Rank 1 because it was better than Rank 3. This new version is probably fine at Rank 3 although the 98 meter range is just slightly short. They should just make Rank 3 have unlimited range honestly.
- Thanatophobia phobia nerfed more than buffed
Thanatophobia is buffed for killers against whom survivors didn't heal much in the first place. For example, survivors often don't heal against Legion, which meant the healing penalty had no impact and thus this is a buff in those situations (you're getting the extra gen slow down and never got the benefit from the healing slowdown to begin with.)
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I haven't played much this week (been on a No Man's Sky kick) but this event seems "ok". Nothing I'm really excited about but nothing I actively dislike either. 🤷♂️
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Instead of a flat timer I’d be for something like if no player scores any points for 5 minutes then endgame collapse starts to put the game in sudden death. 5 minutes is plenty of time for one side or the other to score points, if neither is doing it then you’re clearly in one of these stalemates.
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There are a couple of threads saying Mindbreaker had its 50% gen progress limit removed but it isn’t in the patch notes. (So anybody who touches a gen no matter its progress is exhausted as long as they touch it plus an additional 5 seconds.) This actually kind of a significant buff to the perk because it means if you are chasing someone, and they try to instant tap a gen to stop it from regressing, they will immediately be exhausted for the next 5 seconds even if the gen is 99% completed.
How good or bad that is depends on how much you value exhausting survivors I suppose. 🤷♂️
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I haven’t regretted prestiging anybody, I see it as a chance to play again from scratch and see what loadouts I can make with what I get.
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@Cancan71 said:
I don't think that this is as big of a nerf as people make it out to be as 96 meters covers most maps. However, I don't understand why they didn't make the aura last 10/9/8 seconds for the different tiers and leave the range unchanged. Putting a range on it is unnecessary, especially since the tier 3 range is so big it might as well be infinite.
Actually outdoor maps are 100 meters side to side but because they’re roughly squares they’re about 140 meters corner to corner. So picture a circle embedded in a square of the same width, that’s roughly what Discordance detects if Legion is in the center of the map.
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Nice I didn’t catch that they removed the 50% requirement when I glanced at the patch notes, I may have to try using this. 🙂
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The PTB is literally them testing it so they can do tweaks before it goes live. What would be the point of a PTB version if it never changed before going live?
Also keep in mind the devs are considering the 0.5 second cooldown reduction after his ranged attack a buff. Which it technically is, you can launch the attack and be back in the chase slightly faster now. Obviously 0.5 seconds is pretty small but I can’t say it’s negligable, in 0.5 second the survivor can gain 2 meters extra distance which, chasing them at 4.6 m/s and them moving 4 m/s, shaves off 3.3 seconds to your chase time to catch back up versus the old version. In 3.3 seconds the survivor can run an additional 13.3 meters toward a new loop so that 0.5 second extra lead time could make the difference between them getting to delay you a bit longer or not. (Maybe)
Is that enough of a buff to make up for the slower recovery when you fake a ranged attack? Probably not, it’s still probably an overall nerf. But I don’t think you should dismiss the reduced cooldown entirely, it can have an impact.
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@Aldofer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1691512#Comment_1691512
Okay smarthead, but now you are limited in it's use, so now if you are in chase you can miss the aura if you are too far away, aslo 92 meter is not even half the size of big map, it has now become a niche perk only use on small/medium map (and not all medium map) and loose all the early game use it had
I mentioned the range limit being a factor in my post. And 92 meters will cover you unless you happen to be right on the edge or a corner and the gen they’re on happens to be in the opposite corner. (Outdoor maps are 100 meters across, 140 corner to corner)
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The way the aura works now is a buff. The old version simply had the aura last for X seconds and then the aura went away. So if you were in a chase, for example, you might not see the aura if you don’t check it within about 8 seconds
Now the aura persists the entire time that two survivors are working on it and continues after one or both of them leave it for 8 seconds. It pretty much makes it impossible to not know two people are on a gen, provided they are within that 98 meter range at tier 3. (98 meters actually is a long distance but doesn’t quite cover the whole map, distance wall to wall is about 100 meters on outdoor maps and distance from one corner to an opposite corner is about 140 meters. But if you are anywhere not near an edge or corner it effectively covers the whole map.)
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On a related tangent I think it’s interesting they also buffed Forced Penance which now puts a survivor into a Broken state for 80 seconds if they take a protection hit, i.e. they are hit while within 10 meters of an injured survivor. It becomes a soft counter to Blood Pact since if two survivors are staying close to each other during a chase the odds of applying that Broken status are dramatically increased.
As far as the main points above go I agree that chasing two survivors for the price of one is generally a good position to be in as killer. Not only is that two survivors not doing gens in a single chase but it also increases the chances of one of them accidentally being out of position and giving an easier hit or of one accidentally screwing up the other’s vault or pallet drop, for example. The upside for the survivors would simply be that they can make the chase last a few seconds longer in a flat run and have an increased opportunity to reach a safe pallet. I’m not sure how good or bad this perk is overall but those appear to be the upsides and downsides at least.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1690279#Comment_1690279
This is totally different from changing them in different Patches. This is making Key slightly weaker and making Moris way weaker/remove them, instead of "Do something to Moris in this Midchapter-Patch and Keys will be changed the next Midchapter-Patch". If it happens that Keys and Moris get changed in different Patches, it should be communicated, but like I said, I doubt it will help much, because this community likes to read what they want to read. And if only Keys are changed, they will flame that Moris are untouched and vice-versa.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1690289#Comment_1690289
The green and red Mori would still be too strong. It does not matter that you can kill another Survivor after they have been hooked twice, if you get one Survivor out of the game early, you won anyway. And given that the Ebony Mori is so common, this should not be the possibility. Normal games with decent Map Pressure are: One Survivor on the Hook, one Survivor in a chase, one Survivor going for the Unhook (at least), one Survivor working on Gens. This way the Killer has great Map Pressure.
But if you can remove one Survivor early with so little effort compared to a normal game, you have no Survivor left to do Gens, meaning, you would easily win this game, since the Survivors would be constantly in chases or Unhooks and there would be no time to do Gens.
I disagree that a Green mori is an instant win. You still need to be able to down the same survivor twice before the rest of the survivors get to within 1 gen of completion which is by no means guaranteed. Four gens can be completed by three survivors in about 120 seconds with no buffs or tools (80 seconds for three solo gens and about 40 seconds with two survivors on a fourth.) It can take 30 seconds to get the first hit and another 30 seconds to get the first down on the first survivor, which means you then have only 60 seconds possibly for that survivor to not only be pulled off the hook but then find them again and down them in order to get the mori.
Basically the one hook early kill is an advantage but definitely not an insurmountable one, at least not with a single survivor. The Red mori is overpowered because getting two hooks shaved off the time is too much, let alone three.
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Yellow Mori is too weak, virtually any time you can kill the last survivor with it you could just hook them. It's useless. Green Mori is ok as is. Red Mori is overpowered.
My suggestion is still:
Yellow Mori - Lets you kill any survivor you've hooked twice (Better than the current version but still not as good as Green. Plus you can get multiple mori animations.)
Green Mori - Lets you kill one survivor you've hooked once. (No change)
Red Mori - Both of the above. Lets you kill one survivor you've hooked once and any survivor you've hooked twice. Not as powerful as the current version but still better than Green and still lets you get multiple mori animations.
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@zoozoom6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1689686#Comment_1689686
what do you mean? like doctor's shock?
More like a slow vault. You can still vault, you're not completely blocked like Doctor does, but it takes a bit longer and you have more vulnerable frames in the animation.
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One small tweak that would help Clown in a chase (without giving him literally unlimited bottles) would be to make it so his gas causes survivors to vault more slowly at pallets and windows. If survivors had a bit of a delay vaulting over pallets while intoxicated then it would make a few more pallets still mindgameable for Clown after an early pallet drop that he currently can't quite beat without just kicking the pallet.
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@Ryan489x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1689187#Comment_1689187
Ever had a game where you're lucky to kill even one person and the survivors still insult you because they didn't all make it out?
I've definitely had games where I killed one survivor that that one and his friends insulted me. It's people who can't point the blame at themselves for losing basically.
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@AvisDeene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1689200#Comment_1689200
No, no more indoor maps please. Midwich is enough for a good long while.
I do like the Winchester’s as Survivors, but I’d really like a de-powered Castiel.
Killer could be a weakened Lucifer stuck in a mortal shell.
I don't mind indoor maps, but if it's an outdoor map then maybe the Crossroads?
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@selflessnea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688877#Comment_1688877
Except its not. Im am sure they said they are going to rework all her add ons.
The only thing they specifically said was they’re giving her a second red add on to bring her addon distribution in line with the standard. I wouldn’t be surprised if they take a look at the addon combo iri head plus the purple that adds two hatchets, though, since it’s that specific combo that’s probably overpowered.
If the iri head is by itself and you can only carry one hatchet it’s still a good add-on but having to reload after literally every throw makes it less effective overall, that’s a lot of extra time spent going back and forth to lockers. Personally I think if they tweaked iri head to say “you can only carry one hatchet regardless of other add-ons” then it could be a decent change.