Any chance we could see a kill rate chart for games where all 5 players are red rank?
Just a quick request for Ethan and the devs, the two charts Ethan showed in the Q&A were cool but they kind of beg the question for a third chart which would be filtered strictly for games where all five players are red ranks. The “red rank” chart from the Q&A was presumably games including a red rank killer but didn’t seem to be filtered based on survivor ranks (since all the killers in that red rank chart has a 10% or so higher kill rate, it was including lots of games where a red rank killer was stomping lower rank survivors.) I think an All Red Rank Players chart would give a bit of a clearer picture of roughly where the killers stand at the higher end of play.
For example, it’s possible that a killer might be particularly good against average players but high skill players can deal with them more efficiently. Hypothetically for instance Undetectability could be something that average players tend to fall victim to more often than red rank survivors since the effectiveness of Undetectability is gong to be significantly impacted by the degree of situational awareness of the survivors. The more aware they are the harder it becomes to get close, even while Undetectable. And that would be compounded by groups that are on comms who can relay an Undetectable killer’s location to others, which becomes a bigger factor in all red rank games since the probability of facing swfs likely increase in games against all red rank survivors. So you might see Pig, for instance, lower in the kill rate ranking in the All Red Rank Players chart than the ones against all survivors (maybe?)
Here’s the red rank chart again for reference. Either way thanks for putting this and the other chart together, it’s fun info to see!
Comments
I think this is a great question
Of course not. Having stats displayed where all of the players are red would highlight even more how terrible the matchmaking is. Folks would be able to compare the numbers to the ones the selectively gave out.
How do you know if it is only killer red ranks here?
What, you mean all 5 games in the last year?
i chuckled when I read this. Very nice
I assuming it is because all of the kill rates on this chart are about 10% higher across the board compared to the All Ranks chart. If the chart is Red Rank killers versus any survivors then this is exactly what you’d expect to see. Red Red killers versus All Red Rank Survivors should be closer matches, not basically 70% kill rates.
Whats the point? Rank means nothing but playtime.
There’s way more than 5 all red rank games in the data. There are literally tens of thousands of matches per day and the matchmaking tends to try and put red rank killers versus red rank survivors if possible. I think something like 25% of the playerbase is red rank as well.
So during the failed MMR, I guess the piles of rank 20 survivor bodies were meaningless. The logic that ranks mean nothing is so faulty
thwre is a direct correlation between rank/time played/skill
I’m not one of those people, at least I hope, and I’d be interested.
EVEN BETTER!
Show kill rate charts for SWF compared to none swf teams!
That would be interesting as well, it’s been a while since they showed that. (The last time they had a kill rate versus swf chart it had about a 10% survival rate increase for 4-person swfs compared to solo with 2- and - at something like 3% and 8% increases if i remember right. Also it was something like 35% of games have a 2-person swf, 15% a 3- person and 5% a 4-person swf. (I remember the total was 55% of games had a swf of some sort and 5% of all games had a 4-person swf, the other numbers kind of scaled accordingly.)
I think those stats you are asking for won’t support your narrative any more than the stats we now got.
the problem is that those survivor sided matches people are always talking about are just a symptom of the flawed ranking and matchmaking. It’s mostly that those red tank killers may not be as good as they think they are, even I can get to red rank, on both sides, and I am pretty bad..
What narrative? I’m not pushing any agenda, I’m just curious to see the differences in the numbers.
Rank means a bit more than just playtime. You have to both play a lot and also have a positive emblem record to reach red rank. So it’s an indicator of both overall player experience, which correlates for the most part to skill, and of positive results over time.
Think of it this way, if rank doesn’t mean anything then why does the Red Rank killer chart have a 10% higher kill rate than the All Rank killer chart? If Red Ranks didn’t correlate at all to skill there would be no difference.
The way stats in this game are released are often incredibly oversimplified. Often they tend to favor the idea that Killers are incredibly powerful which leads to this perception that they're OP. Problem is because matchmaking is the way it is and I as a rank 1 killer can be paired with a group of purple and greens or with survivors with 3-4k hours compared to my relatively modest 600 is bonkers to me. It would be nice to see statistics with far more specificity. Five players all in red ranks is a good idea but also I'd imagine it must be very difficult to create statistics for things like vs SWFs because you'd have to specify 2, 3, and 4-man. What about with keys? What about with Moris? What about with red add ons by both killer and survivor? I know the devs said something like don't make judgements based on statistics like this but it feels like they make judgements based on this data so idk?
You have a narrative: the stats you are seeing don’t show matches against ‚skilled‘ survivors and are flawed because of the low rank survivors.
it’s just an assumption of yours. as far as we know, those stats could very well be just what you are asking for: it’s red ranks for all players included, nothing indicates otherwise.
The stats are absolutely meaningless because they are not detailed enough. If behavior takes these stats as shown and makes decisions based off of them, this is the sole reason why this game is so poorly balanced.
Killers can run a myriad of different offerings and addons that GREATLY affect their ability to kill. Survivors can run a myriad of different offerings that GREATLY affect their ability to survive and die. There's also perks to consider.
Of the 3 out of 4 average survivors killed, how many are running ds unbreakable iron will and borrowed time? Actually I would be curious as to how many survivors that survive that are running that combo. Are they bringing med kits? flashlights? offerings to survivor sided maps? keys? are they suiciding?
Of the killers that are killing an average of 3 survivors, what are they running? Are they running the best addons for the specific killer? Are they running the best perks? Moris? are they running more killer favored maps? is it a fully kitted out killer vs survivors not running meta perks or addons, or vice versa?
What exact rank are these kills and survives happening? is it a rank 4 killer who just got into red ranks vs rank 1 survivors who have been there all season, is it a rank 1 killer who's been there all season vs a team of rank 3-4 survivors who just got to those ranks?
This game is not designed to be balanced, just from all the variables that go into play. You cannot possibly draw any reasonable conclusion from any of these broad stats unless many variables are controlled for. The fact that behavior releases such worthless information and the predictable response that ensues leads me to really question what their motives are.
Assumption much?
There is not a direct correlation. I do agree however, that there is some correlation. I've seen devotion 10s that get mindgamed on the shack pallet. These people are red ranks who get mindgamed on the downed shack pallet.
You're right, Myers pig and bubba need to be heavily nerfed because they are overperforming, and freddy is the strongest killer in the game.
You don't seem to understand how useless these stats are. Killers running the best perks with the best addons on the best maps vs survivors running the best perks with the best addons on the best maps is the ONLY metric that actually matters in terms of balance. These stats are completely irrelevant, and god help you if you are faced with any situation in your life where you will need to actually rely on statistics for anything.
There is so much wrong with your reasoning I really don't know where to start. Do you believe that nurse is the one single weakest killer in this game by a very large margin?
Why should any PvP game ever base balance decisions on the average playerbase?
Also where do survivors get nerfed in maps? Most maps are survivor sided. I would like for you to show me how many maps are killer sided and why you think that. I would also know why you think that survivor perks are weak, considering survivors have the strongest perks in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCwWell, last time the devs posted a chart for "red ranks", they later admitted they only looked at the killer ranks for it. After we got the usual drama and pitchfork mobs.
Its pretty normal to ask for charts with all players being red.
No, you don't seem to understand game design or game balance, but I know now that you're a lost cause. Just know that there's a reason no one agrees with you, and it's not because you're right.
Where did I say the stats were "flawed"? And yes, I'm assuming that the Red Rank chart is for Red Rank killer matches but isn't filtered for matches where all the players are red rank. Why else would the kill rates be 10% higher across the board? So yeah it's an assumption but I think it's a logical one. (Or do you honestly think that red rank killers average 3 kills per game against groups of all red rank survivors? And I mean every killer - Clown is 66% kill rate on average.)
Actually yeah i think so.
But that’s more because red rank survivor doesn’t equal high skilled survivor. There are green rank survivors that can loop better than most red ranks.
we don’t know what the current stats really represent. It would be wiser to ask for more background to the variables instead of just assuming something because it doesn’t fit your personal view or the view of the vocal killer sided forum/internet community.
By your logic then red rank killers likewise don't play that well either, right? So again, if you don't think ranks of killers and survivors matter, why would there be a 10% increase in kill rates among red rank killers versus red rank survivors?
And think about what you're saying, you're saying that the -average- result is a 3 kill. For Clown, and Legion, and Plague, etc. Versus Red Rank survivors.
This argument that "we don't know so let's not ask for additional data" is also very strange. They released two charts, which appear to represent All Killers versus All Ranks and Red Rank Killers versus All Ranks. So it's only natural to then be curious about Red Ranks versus Red Ranks.
And guess what, if I'm wrong and that chart is actually Red Ranks vs Red Ranks, great! I'd be really curious to find that out. All the more reason for me to ask about that additional chart then.
Seems to me the only person trying to push an agenda here is you, trying to imply that "ranks don't matter" so "why bother getting any additional data" and "charts mean nothing". If you're not curious about these things that's fine, I happen to be.
As I said, asking for additional info would be the right way. It seemed like you were not curious about it in your original post but didn’t believe that chart could be true with all red ranks at all. With the amount of so called „potatoes“ on survivor side, DCs that apparently plague every other match and Ebony moris it’s not too far fetched for this to be true
i do think we need more details for these graphs though! I never said anything against just asking for info
and I also think -and this is not directed towards you but generally- people would not accept graphs that show results that differ from their subjective view (eg 3 kills average for red ranks)
I'm not sure why my original post would sound like I'm not interesting in how the new chart would differ (or even more interesting and unexpected if it didn't differ) but whatever. 🤷♂️
And yeah, I never intended my request to be some sort of silver bullet to end internet debates about DbD. I'm not looking to change the community, I'm asking mainly to satisfy my own curiosity and I figure if I'm wondering about it there are probably other people wondering the same thing too.
I'm pretty sure that was all players in red ranks. Killers are overperforming. The only thing keeping Freddy at 75% is the hatch.
I get that you think killers are overperforming, but do you honestly think Clown and Legion and Plague and Demogorgon are -averaging- 3 kills per match against red rank survivors?
Then please try to explain the extreme difference between 2 "red rank" players.
Yes I do, Clown is amazing at slowing survivors. Shouldn't they struggle some if it is a top group?
Lol, ok, and what about literally every other killer in that list. They all average more than 3 kills per match in the Red Rank chart. You're telling me that literally every killer is getting 3+ kills most of the time against full red rank groups?
You failed to refute anything I said. I’ll stand by it. If you don’t agree so be it. It’s highly suspect, but you are entitled to your own opinion.
There's no difference between rank 4 and rank 1. The question you didn't ask was if you could see the killers vs. red ranked SWFs.
And you failed to answer a very simple question.
If one "red rank" player can run an m1 killer all day long but another, far more common example falls for every trick in the book like a rank 15 used to back in the days when it was slightly difficult to rank up, then ranks don't matter as anything but a measurement of playtime.
Yes, and that's with hatch.
I highly doubt you're correct then. Think about it this way, if Red Rank killers are all averaging 3-4 kills per match against full groups of red rank survivors that would mean that full groups of red rank survivors are averaging less than 1 escape per match. There's zero evidence that that's the case. Please, if you can find any data to support your claim that red rank killers beat red rank survivors nearly all the time I'd love to see it.
What is much, much more likely is that the average in the All Ranks chart is simply being shifted up 10% because it's reflecting higher rank killers facing a combination of both high rank and mid/low rank survivors. So it's probably more like Red Rank killers have about a 55-60% kill rate and get about 2 - 2.5 kills on average versus red rank survivors. And the chart is simply showing that, as expected, red rank survivors trounce lower rank groups more easily than that.