danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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I won't play him, if this goes through. He should never have a longer tail attack wind-up than he has now. I don't even think noobs were complaining about not being able to dodge react to it. Like, who asked for this?
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It's not a bad idea at this point. I don't know how comprehensive other games have been in their code restructuring, if they've ever had to do that, but you would think it would be possible for DBD. They could do an Overwatch 2 type thing where you can either buy the "new game," or if you have 'DBD 1' you can just upgrade for free to the new game. Or if they'd do a Sm4sh to Sm5sh transition where the game is just distinctly different physics, mechanics, graphics, etc while maintaining all or mostly the same character roster. People wait years between entries like those games, even without big updates in-between, so I think this game could do the same. I'd be willing to wait, idk, 2 years or something.
The new game would have to have the bare necessities. Better anti-cheat, better physics, better hitboxes, way better graphics that don't look like mud/Doom 2 textures, probably some motion blur, better lighting and shadows, better fps and servers. They just need to leave the code open to being able to do lots of stuff. Apparently a replay mode isn't possible in this game, nor a difference between pressing the DC button and losing connection, nor both players seeing the same thing on their screens consistently. And if they're gonna do MMR again, it must be perfect. No more saying that it's skill-based, and then putting people of random skill levels with each other.
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@Nyllawafer_ said:
I know that this one might be an extremely hot take but slugging responsibly, as to create pressure or when someone is purposfully trying to get themselves hooked, or even when i've all but confirmed they had decisive strike. I'm worried that my main pressure tool is going to be gutted by the new slugging update
The killer failing at slugging is way worse for him than doing bad with hooking or tunneling. If it takes so much to down 1 person, because they're a good survivor, and they get slugged for a mere 30 seconds, then picked up and healed to full, that might as well have been a hook, and now you don't even have that to your name. Survivors seem to think there's no downside to slugging. No, hooks would be preferable if the slug is gonna fail anyway. And think about how hard it is to slug anyway. You're basically aiming for downing 4 people within like 45 seconds to a minute, or else they start picking each other up and completely reset. That takes perfect timing, perfect chase execution, and perfect game knowledge of where the other survivors are as you finish downing each. Sad that the devs just keep taking away the most skilled ways killer can play.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895665#Comment_3895665
Yes, Vigil and Fixated is super good with Sprint Burst!
I've been trying to wean myself off of Deja Vu, more than likely going to continue using it in soloq because I want to avoid 3 gens like a plague.
But there's many perks that work well with Sprint Burst, I even use it sometimes with Finesse because I'm a little quirky at times for that faster speed with vaulting (combine it with Resilience when injured) for more variety.
Same with Alert and Troubleshooter, nice to win 50/50 mindgames too.
If I had to rank the exhaustion perks, I'd go Sprint Burst > Lithe > Dramaturgy > Dead Hard (I still do not use it since you only get two uses) > Balanced Landing (I still use it more than DH, but much more situational) > Background Player (don't use it, but strong in the right hands) > Head On (again, don't use it - I kinda dislike that you have to set it up and stay in a locker for 3 seconds) > Overcome > Smash Hit > Adrenaline > Blood Rush (I use it on Renato with Off The Record which is nice for tunneling).
Reason for Smash Hit over Adrenaline is I don't really consider them (both it and Blood Rush as exhaustion perks). No one uses Adrenaline for the speed boost, rather the self heal after a gen pops. 😝 Adrenaline is obviously stronger than Smash Hit, lol. Smash Hit is the weakest, but shines really well when you combine it with something (Lithe + Smash Hit is a great combo because you practically win 50/50s with it).
Well, Smash Hit is for god players or people with good connection, so I really don't know where it should be placed. If those weren't the determining factors, the mere 20s of exhaustion alone would make it broken.
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@MoZo said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GSA3TJJ2NN66/img-4780.jpeg
This is my exhaustion perk tierlist as of 8.5.2, i know the two outliers that will get many peoples attention is DH and bgp being S tier so let me explain my reasoning behind the placements. Dead hard has been and always will be a S tier perk, the fact you can scratch off death just by clicking a button has always been an insane ability that almost no other perk can do. Almost every killer can be dead harded and even then if you use DH at a pallet it is almost uncounterable unless the killer swings the millisecond the endurance runs out. Background player is a little more tricky, solo q its decent but not that useful but in swfs its almost uncounterable. Going down under a pallet while in a swf is one of the most safest things a survivor can do in a swf because it puts the killer in a lose lose situation, either they insta pick up and the person with BGP gets the pallet save or the killer commits to the BGP survivor and the survivor under the pallet could have unbreakable or better yet the BGP user has wglf and loops the killer enough to come back to the slug and insta pick them up. Also the fact that BGP and flashbang is a near uncounterable combo definitely boosts BGP utility. It’s also a great map traversal perk since it only has a 20 second exhaustion to it.
Let me know if you agree, disagree or have questions on my tierlist in the comments!
That seems about right. I'd swap Background Player and Dramaturgy.
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I'm gonna assume the lack of pallets is blown out of proportion, just like the farm maps that "don't have any."
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@Lixadonna said:
What was it 3 attempts to balance Boneyard and they all seemingly failed to make it feel less frustrating for Killers. So now to equalize Realms it's splitting who gets a favorable map. Bet the Devs won't give Dead Dawg a Survivor Sided map.
It already is one, Dead Dawg. If the killer doesn't 3-gen, or the survivors save main gen for last, the match is lost.
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@Caiman said:
Considering BHVR said they added this map as a "nerf" to the map offering, it being killer-sided seems intentional as a counterbalance to the survivor-sided Forsaken Boneyard.
Which I don't agree with, because they could just nerf the busted map, but at least it's something.
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@Crowman said:
People have been comparing new killer powers to old killer powers everytime.
And they're never exactly accurate. They said "Nemesis is like a mix between Huntress and Plague," or something like that, despite him playing nothing like either of them. Or "Chucky is a mix of Ghost Face and Wesker," even though he's 110%, and his 1 dash and 3rd person view are both unique to him. With wide sweeping comparisons like that, it's no wonder people foolishly say, "We haven't had an original killer since Huntress."
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@Heliosse said:
Then you are up for disapointment.
I doubt then can create something "trully unique" like you want after 8 years. Yes, im sure you all have unique and original ideas, that doesn't mean they would translate well into DBD when you take actual Game Design into consideration.
After 8 years of creation, they have found their different achetypes for the game. Dbd is unique and a pretty new type of game with no competitors. The game structure does not allow some crazy stuff to happen.They can't even release a killer without it being bugged for years and you all expect some flying/wall crawling/structure destroying killer with crazy mechanics.
Even big genre like Mobas, fighting games or other have Archetypes. Characters belongs in categories and have tweaks and tricks to make them stand out, just like in dbd. Xenomorph and Sadako are both restricted mobility killers with 7 objects. Xenomorph has anti loop alongside it and Sadako has slowdown. That's their archetype, after that they have everything else to make them stand out from other killers.
With how many people i see saying things akin to that for the FNAF chapter, we are probably heading toward another "Alien" in term of expectations/disapointment. Springtrap can have many different abilities, they will go for something that fits existing archetype like stealth/tracking or stealth/lethality, stealth/slowdown.
Every killers have something unique to them, no matter their archetype. So Springtrap will have something akin to the tunnels, torment, condemn or the illusory footsteps. I doubt it will be enough since people are going to find any similarities for a failed design and a revamp like every chapters.
Also, the least popular killers are all the most originals/ambitious in term of design :
Pinhead, Knight, Twins, Xenomorph, Sadako, Singularity, Dredge, Hag and even Skull merchant. All hated because they have ambitious designs.
The most popular killers are all very simple killers in design, most of them being movement/dash killers like Billy which is just dash or Wesker which is dash + simple infection.
Clearly, originality is not people main focus. People want fun killers, which, while being subjective, is most of the time low skill floor, high skill ceiling, strong, movement based killers.
BHVR is not encouraged to try new things when people hate every one of their most ambitious design or anything they change in general.
Pretty much this. And it almost feels like people are wanting a completely new killer ability as a way to (idk) balance the game. What they're really looking for, if that's the case, is a new win/loss condition. We haven't seen something like that since Sadako and her Condemned mechanic. So I understand where they may be coming from. But like you said, there's only so much you can do in this game without completely changing the make-up of it.
You're definitely right about those killers being hated. They're different, and they were universally exciting when they came out, but now people just decide they're not fun.
Pinhead had unique anti-loop and then the box for slowdown, but people abhor killers having slowdown at base, so they got everything about the box nerfed. Knight summoning guards was cool, but it got boiled down into "unfair, 2 killahs chasing you," so now his already weak guards (due to the AI) got nerfed almost to unusability. Twins did the 2 killers in 1 thing long before him, and were hated because they could slug, even though Victor gets killed no matter what as long as 2 survivors are running together. Well, any mobility killer can slug, and Twins were pushed to play like that because killer loses by wasting all that time walking to pick up and hook. Xenomorph was seriously so weak, between the free turrets and the inconsistent tail, and the reason for his further nerfing was noobs not being able to react to his tail. We've all seen that before.
Sadako and Singularity can bounce around the map all they want, but they either have to mostly ignore their power, or go full-in on their power, or else they lose. In fact I'm convinced those killers are unviable except for being forced to slug. Dredge and Hag are supposed to be to killers, but because there's so much delay between the survivors being in range and you being able to hit them, they're always safe, and Hag is more frustrating because she's a set-up killer like Singularity, whose power can just be destroyed/nullified all match long. The teleports should be instant. And Skull Merchant similarly is a set-up killer, but because people self-fulfilling prophecy themselves, they claim she's either unbeatable or is boring to go against. Seems like their problem is they don't even strategize or have patience or have team play vs a strategy based killer, go figure.
And I could guess a lot of people saying that we need a drastically new killer power want it to be weak so they can beat it, because they look at killers like Wraith, Freddy, Pig, or Doctor and say, "Wow, what great design!" Yeah, because they're always so easy for you to beat, and nobody plays them at high level.
Someone you didn't mention, look at Chucky. 110% killer, so basically guaranteed to be mediocre, with a dash attack, slide under pallets/over windows, and a bit of stealth that he tells you he has. Not very impressive, but they made him out to be the most game breaking killer of all time, even citing his 3rd person view as being way too strong. They think his stealth is too strong. They thought his manual Scamper was a guaranteed hit (it wasn't), and got it nerfed. And "high level players" were agreeing with it all! Now he's like bottom 2 killers. So maybe some of these people asking for a different kind of killer just don't know what they want, because that's what Chucky was and they ended up ruining him.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894273#Comment_3894273
Maybe if you try to look at this is a vacuum, but when you look at the whole the bigger picture is pretty obvious.
Killers have much larger win streaks is one piece. The devs have been pushing for a 60% kill rate, which is already a bit odd. They've flat out said they want the game to favor the killer.
Balancing more toward killer vs SWF, when 4 man SWF is only about 10% of the player base, and 40 ish percent when you factor in all group sizes. Solo queue, the 60% is left in the dust with a few scraps that "are supposed to make up for it".
Sacrificing the fun aspects of the game supposedly in the name of balance, is a competitive mindset. And I've never seen a game deliberately and intentionally go a competitive route, while at the same time saying "killers win about 51% of the time, and survivors win about 35% of the time, with the rest being draws". That's not balance.
All of those things, and more, is the broader picture that the game favors killers, by design, and by intention.
Yes they do. There's been so many games where it was competitive, and the "fun, fun, fun" people didn't suffer for it. Look at any fps game, any fighting game, any strategy game. Balance changes were made, and there was little or no outcry from casuals, because they either understood their step in the learning process, or they didn't pay attention to things like balance. I played Smash Bros for years, and I came up with opinions like, "This character needs a stronger X" or "This character is OP." But I never once went to a forum or the game reviews and listed those complaints, because I never dedicated myself to playing competitively. I mean, I was competitive, but in scrub kind of way. And I joke that I'm like that in DBD too, because of controller limitations, my apm, my hand-eye coordination or whatnot. A miss here, a distance misjudge there. But I know I'm good. You shouldn't have to play at the absolute peak of gameplay the be somewhat able to compete, but that's what killer feels like. My survivors are doing 20-second chases, and the matches are always close.
I really don't care about the kill rate. It's always been deceiving, and a fat load of confirmation bias. It has nothing to do with how difficult the game is for killer or survivor, or what skill is required. It doesn't tell you anything, especially with how skewed matches are with this MMR. Other games have competent MMR. Maybe that's why they're better at doing balance. DBD's devs are incapable of sound balancing so long as this MMR problem exists. You can't balance around anything if you don't even accept that noob killers are getting crushed by high level teams, and good survivors are dying because of their teammates' lack of basic game knowledge. They act as if skill as a factor does not exist, like everyone's just playing at the same level, so that if 1 side is doing bad, you simply buff them and that's the end of it. There's no nuance at all.
I especially disagree that the devs intend the game to be killer sided. Every patch note, killer has taken a hit. I don't care how many placebo buffs/changes they got in exchange. Like the recent Legion changes: so you're telling me he might be playable now. Great. Doesn't make up for the fact that Wraith, Deathslinger, and Twins have been C tier since their respective nerfs. And they're seen as fine, being in that state. They couldn't buff Freddy without dialing him back in basically every area of his power. Even in the wording of the patch notes, especially all the ones that nerfed Chucky, "We feel that survivors needed more time to react/dodge, so we made him slower." Good players weren't even complaining about that. They just did the same thing with Alien, who I'm never playing again after that disastrous change comes in. He was already garbage, because his ability was not consistent, and the free flamethrower turrets were too strong, which are also getting buffed btw. Pain Res was nerfed because the killer "simply* puts the survivor on the hook." as if you can just will it and it happens. So at most, killer has been 1 step forward, 3 steps back. The survivor meta has stayed the same (except OTR's introduction) for like 8 years. Killer's meta has been changed like 20 times, all the result of nerfs. I don't see how the devs have killer's best interests in mind.
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@LockerLurk said:
It's a horror based game, in what horror based game shouldn't the Killer end up winning more?
All BHVR has done in the past year is fix some much needed issues with Killers, make lower tier Killers more viable, tone down certain overly strong perks, and give Killers antigrief in the form of hook respawn (because people would overuse and abuse comp corners too much and no-hook zones). If that "makes it way too Killer sided" maybe it's a you issue because I still do fine in my Survivor games. I just don't win every round without thinking anymore because I slapped on a meta build.Yeah, like what exact killer change was made to where it's "EZ turn your brain off mode"? I'm having close matches every time, no matter how quick the survivors go down. A lot of decent killer perks destroy themselves after 1 use. Pain Res, Grim, Deadlock, Machine Learning. A lot of the rest aren't even worth bringing. Survivors have tons of options. All the anti-momentum (anti-tunnel) perks, all the exhaustion perks, all the healing and psuedo-instaheal perks, the killer stunning perks. But I really cannot see the leagues of power these people claim that killer has gone through to get here. Here is mediocrity, not overwhelming might. You sometimes go against survivors who basically don't go down. 5 gens have popped, and you've got like 3 hooks, because they just yo-yo at god loops and take you on chases that will cost you the remainder of the gens. There's no sense of control in the slightest. Only for the survivors, there is.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893925#Comment_3893925
It’s amazing how many god-level killer players we have on this forum. But it’s so weird how we have never seen any actual gameplay from all these pros
Because it would be the usual. People picking apart the gameplay, aggressively critical, all in hindsight. And that level of analysis, 1000 IQ, only gets applied to killer gameplay. Because with survivor gameplay, as long as they say* they're playing at high level, people believe it without question. Just look at the "best survivor team in world match vs 3-gen Skull Merchant- for almost an hour!" I've debunked that one so many times, I've lost count. But in essence it was very mediocre efficiency and team play dressed as this really high level match, when they made so many mistakes they should have lost, and yet they still won. But because they took so long to do so, "that killah is so OP!" So if people can buy into that hoax, showing them proof with their very eyes of our gameplay being solid and still getting kicked around like a noob... It's not gonna change their minds. They are completely narratively captured.
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@jedimaster505 said:
You're right I play both sides too and killer is extremely easy, I can 3-4K on auto pilot. For comparison, to be as good at survivor as I am with 3K hours in solo Q, I only need max 200 hours to reach that success level playing killer. In others words, killer is easy mode in the game, far easier even than SWF. The killers that think it is survivor sided are profoundly delusional.
Sure you can.
In all seriousness, what?! Killer easier than SWF?! But you literally have other people with you to bail you out! Imagine all those solo games where you're about to to be dead. "Sure could use a body block now." In SWF, you get one. Then the next time you get close to going down. "Sure could do with an instaheal/BT in a bottle." In SWF, you get one. You need fast gens so you can hurry up and escape? In SWF, you get that. No other role comes close, man.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439813/survivor-frustration
You dont even have much gameplay that even relates to skill as survivor. The issues are clearly on a different side:
First, matchmaking is clearly useless. I would say that since MMR has been implemented i have to play 90% of the time with other people that clearly have no basic game sense as teammates. And then there are those games I get killers like "most rush hits on blight" … how am i even supposed to play against them with such a team?
Than there those game when the killer has basically no game sense besides how to abuse "killer strategies" to their fullest, no matter the actual character. Thats the second big issue: killers have by far too many handolding mechanics that are NOT related to skill. Cause playing killer should actually require skill as they have powers to use unlike survivors. Neither of those mechanics have been affected by any band-aid-fix BHVR provided through out the years, in fact it got even way worse with how they decided to favor bad killers.
I don't know how you can see that your teammates not know what they're doing is what makes you lose, but then talk about imaginary killer handhold mechanics? What and where are they? The tactics killers use are only as effective as they are at exciting them. You can't "just tunnel." First you'd have to be really good at chases, know when you can get a quick hit and then continue the tunnel (or if that's too costly), know how to play around anti-tunnel perks, know which survivor is best to go for, know how much time you have, etc.
I don't see them favoring bad killers, full stop. They've given survivors sprint bursts off every hit, base BT, base anti-camp, hatch when there's 1 left (even if exits are powered), temp off-the-hook immunity to Pinhead chains, god windows that never break, silent footsteps/breathing, chests overrule killer item spawns, etc. A killer can not be good at tunneling, camping, slugging, whatever, without being good. And yet I've only seen band-aid fixes to those strategies. Killer has received nothing but crumbs in return.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893351#Comment_3893351
The answer is outrageously simple. Friends, team and a sense of community. If you are familiar with such games as UNDERWARD and Lethal Company. You will understand. It is the same as DBD, only without the player killer. 4 players united by a common goal that they have fun. The path itself is important, not the final goal. Survivors who strive to be in a team, having felt a sense of community. Here are some killers who are trying to suck out all the fun like leeches.
While the killers are loners who have been staring into the abyss for too long. Let's say that playing DBD for too long can make you not the most pleasant person. When the killer reaches the survivors who understand how the game works. The place for mercy in your heart comes to an end. After all, you are alone against everyone, and the price of defeat will be the pain that the survivors will bring you. From this, completely different priorities appear in the spirit of the end justifies the means. Any sacrifice is acceptable so as not to feel that pain again.
I already said in 3 sides of the conflict Killers, Solo Survivors and SWF there is one constant. When you load into the game someone will definitely experience pain. The only question is who wants to be that very victim? Here everyone decides for themselves.
If we discard all this nonsense us against them. We all want the same thing. The question is only in the price and the means to achieve the goal. We can not agree because they do not understand what the other side is saying. Too different value systems. Probably, unfortunately, no one is ready for mutual sacrifices for the common good. Everyone is trying to bargain for a bigger piece of the pie. No one is ready to sacrifice something on their part to get something in return.
DBD is rotten in all aspects. It is like filth that corrupts natural things. I will never invite my friends to DBD. I'd rather trust their taste in co-op horror and play with them there. At the same time, we ourselves got very deeply involved in the DBD as part of the ship, part of the team.
This is surprisingly deep, and accurate.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893267#Comment_3893267
People who play video games casually deserve to have fun too
@Interrupt_Vector said:
The down vote on the post above me is flippin wild
Because it makes no sense. People are always trying to do mental gymnastics and redefine what "casual" means in this game. No other game's community says, "Balance for casuals." Because it's silly. You're going to pretty much abandon the most skilled, most dedicated players, so that the ones who have no clue and are liable to drop the game a week after buying it... "can have fun." What?!
And the most of the time, the argument only goes one way. That's the infuriating thing about it. "They deserve to have fun." What about the competitive ones? They're supposed to make all the sacrifices, and the noobs don't have to make any? Because that's literally what this game has been for like 4! years! And where are most of the noobs? On survivor.
So killer has to pay, most of the time. Solos, too, but matchmaking is deemed "fine," so nobody talks about that core problem either. Their view of balance is so skewed, because they will not or cannot think about how the average match plays out... when everyone's playing well. At most, they just chef mumble their way through hypotheticals, like "Eh, the survivors' always got weak link, so killer tunnels em out, gens don't go, people go down too quick, killer wins easy," and they never question what the survivors are doing wrong.
I mean, you literally get survivors who don't go down, or might as well have wall hacks, at a certain MMR. What's their secret? Playing well, game knowledge, experience. In all other games, those are things expected of players before they even think about speaking on balance. Not here though. Everyone is weighted equally, so that a 10-hour player has just as much of a weigh-in as a 10,000-hour player, except the 10-hour is "more equal" because more people (other 10hr players) agree with him, and he's a casual so his requests take priority, because his fun matters over everything else.
You know what I'm saying?
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893334#Comment_3893334
I would love it if Deathslinger got his old TR back.
But why revert Hag? She only had it decreased from 28 to 24, why nerf her back?
Is that how it was? She's been so irrelevant for so long, I must have forgotten. Yes, make her TR 24m.
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@lettuchia said:
The terror radius reduction for stealth killers is not good, why encourage stealth killers to not use their power for stealth? As if stealth killers weren't already easy to play now you're being encouraged to play them with even less effort
None of the stealth killers have ever been easy to play. They're just weak, with little to no anti-loop, no real mobility, etc. So the 1 redeeming thing they have IS their stealth.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893334#Comment_3893334
hag definitely. The supposed problem with a 24 M Slinger is Monitor And Abuse but.... that argument don't hold up that well anymore.
and this is going off on a tangent here. Undetectable have been massively power creep recently to the point that any killer can have 0TR most of the game. If slinger tr being low is problematic for gameplay counter then why is undetectable so easily available these days. unpopular opinion i think unforeseen is overpowering bs personally but that whole different conversation.
Yeah, the logic on killer nerfs almost never holds up, because of inconsistencies like that. If a ranged killer is OP when given a smaller terror radius, why let them run 4 Undetectable perks? Why does Deathslinger have an Undetectable add-on and TR add-ons?
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@Cataca said:
Remove the heal or remove the speed boost can't have both
That's always been my complaint, but now I'm not so sure. They could propose it not working if you're already exhausted, because right now you can Sprint Burst, DH, or whatever, be exhausted, last gen done, and then get the heal/sprint burst anyway even though it's an exhaustion perk itself and you're exhausted.
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Pretty much a SWF "win more" perk. Solos, they don't know what they're doing. You're not getting Adrenaline consistently, let alone 4 gens. But with SWF and their gen efficiency, basically getting a guaranteed health state and sprint burst is pretty strong. You're not beating them if more than 1 survivor gets it off. It's unfortunate we've got to make these distinctions, but people keep bashing killer instead of looking into matchmaking.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893866#Comment_3893866
They keep nerfing like Pig, Freddy, Chucky, and Demogorgon
Just wanted to speak as a Demo main for a moment.
Lifeguard Whistle deserved the nerf. My only issue with the change is how uninspired the change to Lifeguard Whistle was, 2 extra Portals, while nice, is boring, and definitely not worth the Very Rare quality. It would have been nice to get some addon adjustments to have more addons for Shred, since currently only 4 addons actually affect Shred, and two of them (Rat Liver and Mew's Guts) are outright useless in their current state.
Outside of that, Demo has gotten a lot of basekit buffs that are really good. But I really think the way people percieve Demo has been permanently damaged by "harmful" metas surrounding Demo. Devour Hope Demo and STBFL Demo were two awful times to play the game since they pushed players towards cheesy playstyles that were actively detrimental to learning the Killer mechanically, and still today, I see a lot of Demo players that struggle with basic Shred mechanics because they never actually used Shred as a power.
But, yea. All I really want is an addon pass, and hopefully a set of addons that promote build diversity while not being unhealthy.
I just think it's overblown. Like why were we not seeing Hex Demogorgon in tourney or top MMR? Because it's not that good. It preys on players not having the skill or game knowledge to counter it. But why nerf it then? Doesn't that just mean the players need to get better? Survivors have prevented killers from getting meaningful changes for YEARS by hiding behind, "But solo weak," while never ever demanding that matchmaking be fixed. I know it's not fixed now, because it's random. I go against a really strong team and beat them, I get a weaker team next match. Other times, I lose to the stronger team and then get an even more dominant one next match. This is all based off bad matchmaking. It's not consistent and it's not skill-based, but y'all want to use it as justification to get the most niche and mediocre killer stuff nerfed. And I like how you speculate that Demogorgon players just don't use their shred, because of this build. There's no link. Every Demogorgon I've faced has used shred. At the times they don't, they couldn't use it, because it was a rock loop or something. If anything, Lifeguard Whistle was nerfed because it gave info, because you know survivors hate the killing seeing where they are, because they can't loop. Those are who these changes cater to.
I've said it about other hex builds and the "gen kick meta" as well. The killer is spending all this time not getting injures or downs, because he's too busy defending a totem, or a gen. You should win the war of attrition automatically, slowly but surely. If you don't, you're just not being efficient or strategizing. You can't balance killer around survivors not knowing what they're doing. And yet here we are.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893873#Comment_3893873
Pretty sure there hasn't been a way to bypass the max turn rate in a while.
I guess I missed the patch note. But still, playing them on console, you feel handicapped. Everyone knows it.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I think Blight is generally fine, and adding extra cooldown to Nurse won't really fix her issues.
No, he was fine before all his add-ons got nerfed. Now he's just a "made for PC" killer like Oni, because those players can just flick their way out of the intended turn limitations.
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@MoZo said:
These two have been the top S tier killers for what feels like forever. We’re going on 5 years straight now. If the devs don’t want to significantly nerf their basekit to tone them down can they at least give them a longer cooldown? Blight should have a 14-15 second cooldown instead of 10 and nurse should have 5-6 second recharge per blink rather than 3. It blows my mind that nurse gets a 6 second cd and other killers have a significantly longer cooldown on their power.
Just make the other killers better, and they won't seem so strong by comparison. THAT is what the devs should've done years ago. But they keep nerfing like Pig, Freddy, Chucky, Demogorgon, and Xenomorph. They have no idea what they're doing.
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@SummerBBQDwight said:
- Turrests are more impactfull and stronger.
- People who allready knew how to counter you will have it even easier.
- People who had no idea will have it easier.
- Your charge attack speed is almost twice as long to do (and more clear audio).
- Tunnels are stronger.
- Attack miss is bit shorter.
Wow.. these sounds like massive nerfs. Even if they aren't massive, it still overall fun decrease for Xeno. Turrets will eventualy shut you off no metter what. It might be cool for theme of the killer (hit and run) but not for real gameplay. Like… Yea, I would rather eat pallets and hit tails with my Nemi than "oh no more tail attack go hide" killer.
The changes are outrageous, man. He was already a dead killer because of the inconsistent tail and free flame turrets! They really hate Xenomorph players. Could we consider this another cash grab chapter, like Chucky? Because that's what I'm thinking.
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@Cypherius said:
That is a great patch.
I especially like the Xeno changes. Might need some further tuning but it shows that the devs understand the design issues of the character across the different levels of play.
They don't. They don't understand the character design at different levels. These changes were made for the bottom level survivors, and is an overall nerf. I can't believe it. Who was complaining about him?
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@OrangeBear said:
Very happy about legion and chucky buffs. Was really hoping we'd get more of the quality of life updates though, but as long as it's before anniversary.
What's Chucky gonna do? Get stepped on? He's nothing with all the nerfs he's suffered. He needs to go back to the manual Scamper and the quicker dash attack.
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@solarjin1 said:
great work devs. I like the terror radius change especially.
Can we have Hag and Deathslinger's smaller ones back, then?
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@[Deleted User] said:
If Eyrie's getting another map, can it please get a footstep sound update? Scratchmarks too?
It's notoriously annoying to track people on this map due to the sand sound being drowned out by chase music and orange scratchmarks being placed on tan terrain.
That's why they always pick the map offering. It's very survivor sided, not just in the size and the pallets, but in the sound.
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People have given up on Chucky. It's so funny they keep trying to make him work in these other ways, not knowing there was nothing wrong with him to begin with. Cash grab killer.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893310#Comment_3893310
The argument actually doesn't fall apart and is, in fact, bolstered when looking at the survivor equivalents. You mention it yourself, DS and OTR deactivate in endgame because the perks - which are otherwise fair and reasonable, at least disregarding bodyblocking with OTR - provide far too much value in the endgame specifically.
The argument could easily be made that having access to strong slowdown perks after someone's died is the same. The perks are reasonable and fair on their own, but if someone dies early, they're far too impactful.
It's not about whether a perk can be used while tunnelling, it's about how much more effective it is after someone's tunnelled out. The whole point of tunnelling someone out is that it heavily affects generator efficiency for the survivor team, because a 3v1 benefits the killer very heavily if it happens early enough, so something that harms generator efficiency even more in a very direct way becomes questionable.
It's not the only thing to fix tunnelling, obviously, and I'm not even necessarily saying it absolutely has to happen myself, but I think it's a very reasonable pitch that warrants legitimate conversation. Killers tunnelling someone out and then also getting Pain Res and Grim Embrace is a pretty obviously overwhelming advantage.
I'm just not a fan of the orchestrated gameplay loop that's being pushed here. I really don't like the speed up/slowdown mechanic 2v8 had with the gens. That cannot come into 1v4, or it will kill this game. What you're suggesting is basically the same. "The killer's playing too well, thus the survivors need a comeback mechanic."
And this is all based on the idea that the survivors need handouts because the killer or their stuff is super oppressive. I don't think slowdown is oppressive, especially not with the perks we have now, in the state that they're in. They shave seconds off a gen. A good survivor can loop the killer for like a minute; they often don't, and it's still enough. The math of the game has been done a hundred times, and every time, the survivors do their objective faster than the killer can do his, giving them an automatic win. It doesn't always happen, but that's due to human error. Pain Res and Grim would not be overwhelming, 3v1 or not, against good survivors. You must take them into account, because the human error I mentioned? They possess little of it.
This is not a reasonable ask. This is ridiculous, especially now. It's saying, "Well, slugging is dead. Now let's go back to disincentivizing hooks. Let's go over every ability and idiosyncrasy killers have and find a way to 'fix' it, to our advantage."
At the very least, all this has reminded me of Grim's existence. Good thing, too. It could be the perfect 4th perk I've been looking for in my Pain Res/No Way Out/Remember Me build. Cheers to that.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893287#Comment_3893287
I mean, what exactly stops the killer from tunnelling someone out and THEN hooking the other three people?
That's kinda the point being made here. Killers can get the full effect of a strong slowdown perk after tunnelling someone out to put themselves in a massively winning position.
It's slowdown. It's supposed to work when conditions are met, and they're never light conditions (contrary to what the devs said when nerfing Pain Res. "Simply" hooking a survivor.). And I thought we were past this, because of the Ruin change. Nobody likes playing killer with perks that deactivate themselves just because someone dies.
The moment we apply the same standards to survivor stuff, the argument falls apart. "3 gens have been done, so your gen boost stuff stops working." "3/4 survivors are healthy, so your healing boost stuff stops working." You're punishing the player, arbitrarily, for being in a favorable position. Now, we did have DS and OTR deactivate in endgame... because it was a literal free escape. The killer getting Grim Embrace, a mere 40 seconds of slowdown (I thought it was 60. It's even worse than I thought.), does not automatically cause the the killer to win the match. The survivors can loop, heal up, body block, whatever for the 40 seconds, and then back to business as usual. A 3v1 is not an automatic survivor loss either.
Nerfing killer perks because they could* be used by tunnelers as well as normal players isn't sound logic, and would encompass basically any and all killer perks. "The killer's got Nurse's! Too much info against the tunneled!" "The killer's got Oppression! Too much gen pressure while the tunneled is on hook!" "The killer's got STBFL! Too quick of a cooldown against the tunneled!" It's ridiculous, and it would be endless. I don't even see one of these "top killer perks" so often and so consistent that any one of them sticks out too much to me. Deadlock, Grim, Corrupt, NOED, Pop, Pain Res, yeah I'll see them every now and then, more often than others, but they're not in every single match, especially not Grim. If anything, all these once-meta perks have been relegated to supplementary perks. They don't do enough on their own, so they're just there to support other perks, or vice versa.
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Yeah, these are the people the devs need to stop catering to. She wasted pallet, has no plan and instead runs out in the open, and then wants to DC instead of simply chalking it up to a bad start. Why even boot the game up? They don't need to be in the lobbies of people who are actually trying and know what they're doing. DC penalties should be strict (maybe not on the first offense, because legit DCs happen), and they should be backed by the confidence of the devs and the community. Because I've seen a lot of people still arguing for no DC penalties, period. You can't do that, because people will just DC on a whim like they did before.
A lot of the complaints on this game have nothing to do with balance. They have to do with feelings, lack of trying, not understanding something, someone DC'd, someone wasn't playing well, someone was playing unfair. Other games have this all figured out, and their community can just focus on balance and fun. But I see a lot of complaints about DCs, and when that happens in your match, that's not your fault. And that's the issue. You can't just let players ruin the other 4's match. The game requires 5 players to be played, not 10 or 20 like some others, and those games see less DCs than this one. Those games have DCer's queues, they have a decent report system, they have at least some level of respect for the game from the players. This game has none of those, so players just DC and then get validated by the lack of punishment and community pushback.
So you can't fix the game to fit this survivor's standard of satisfaction. Your best bet is to increase punishment for continued match abandonment, and hope they finally understand that and improve, or that they'll leave the game. I'm in favor of the "go next" prevention. It might be to my detriment down the road when I really feel like going next. But it's worth it if it improves match quality for everyone, which it will.
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Y'all look for any possible angle to get a killer perk nerfed. It shouldn't deactivate on death, because you still hooked all 4 survivors once each. You earned the perk. How could the killer be tunneling if he got the perk to work? Unless you're trying to say he hooked 3 people, and then started tunneling, in which case how do you not win that match as survivor? That's the problem with switching to tunneling once you're already losing: it never works out. It's why killers "tunneling from the start" is such a copout, because it assumes that you only need to do it later or when losing, which is the absolute worst time to start. The greatest critics of the strategy don't even know how it works or plays out.
Every time the devs have attempted to nerf tunneling, or make something so weak that it can't be used with tunneling, it's been an abject failure. Same with anti-tunnel survivor perks. It punishes the non-tunneling killers more than the tunnelers. This change would do the same.
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@maipace said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S7T914GL14TB/000.jpg
You mentioned survivor frustration as a reason for shortening the “deep hand” treatment time, but I have never felt frustration playing survivor myself, nor have I ever heard of it from anyone around me.
You have introduced systemic aids for frustration and other reasons in response to various requests so far, but do you still need systemic aids?
I think the unconditional nature of these aids has made people less inclined to practice Survivor, and this has led to more and more disconnections.
I'm not saying that we should give preferential treatment to either killers or survivors.
However, as long as it is a competitive game, you have to practice, and there are many things that can go wrong.
I think that the current miserable situation is the result of a system that has been subsidizing practice rather than encouraging it, so I would like to ask the management to correctly understand what the current environment is like and what the awareness of survivors is like, and to take action.They basically said survivor frustration trumps all else. "Good design? Nerf it. Bad design? Nerf it." because the survivors said so.
But you're right. Struggle, and having to learn things, builds character and confidence. And what the devs have succeeded in doing is to take away all obstacles that survivors could possibly struggle against, and made it as easy as possible for them. Base BT, base anti-camp, making the killer surrender when THEY hide too long, nerf all gen defence, nerf the noob stomp killers, etc. But the survivors haven't learned or grown at all through that, so now they're just inadequate and rage-filled, DC'ing at the first sign of trouble until the devs nerf the thing they don't like. They haven't improved because there's no reason to, no challenge at all. That's why they can constantly go down and still have a crazy close game.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892828#Comment_3892828
...no. League is a competetive game. SF is a competetive game. DBD is a casual game that some people sweat at
If you believe that about the game, then why do you care about it being balanced? That's an oxymoron, no?
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It became a healthy perk when hooking became unviable. Now they'll just have to go back to tunneling, and hoping that's enough.
I doubt the new version of the perk is gonna take off, but I could be wrong. Survivors just move so fast compared to the killer, the slowdown will probably hardly matter.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
You could visit YouTube.com and look up how to loop an m1 killer
"That's asking toooo much!"
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You can't make a countermeasure against that. Trolling or not, they're just playing to get a kill. If he's literally just going after you, your teammates should do the gens and get out, and maybe they'll even have time for the free save on you in endgame.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
I agree. Make it so turrets have to be placed a certain distance apart at the least. Also make it so we can actually choose when to enter Crawler Mode. The fact that we are forced into Crawler Mode is stupid. I still say we should be able to have the freedom to use it when we want to..
I had a losing game where they just put 3 turrets, all near each other, near a No Way Out blocked exit. Dumb play, using up all their turrets in 1 spot, but they could afford to, because they had the time and they knew it'd burn me out.
Nobody wants to play a killer who gets stunned out of their power all match. I thought we learned this with Wraith.
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I won't be playing him after the change comes out. That tail attack is gonna feel beyond horrible to use. It's already bad now! What were they thinking?
Best to just get your Xenomorph matches in now, and never again.
These are such baby catering changes. "Too hard to dodge!" as it's the hardest projectile to hit in the game, bar Deathslinger shot.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
PS5 killer main. The quality of my games went up significantly when I started avoiding anyone with "<3" in their name, comp looking Aces, people with special characters in their name, and any lobbies with multiple cross platform anon or multiple TTVs
Yeah, I'll sometimes just dodge what looks like a SWF, because I don't want to deal with it. It's just unfortunate I could be dodging/wasting the time of an innocent group of solos. But the devs don't want to show us if it's SWF, nor balance SWF. So it is what it is.
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Good, but I think there's gonna be a huge backlash, and then they'll just nerf him worse than he was before.
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@Sandt1985 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892548#Comment_3892548
That and Chucky's REAL power is being able to play killer in third person. I can't even put into words what an enormous game changer that is for mind games
I really don't think that does anything.
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@xCakeStick said:
After reading the Terror Radius Adjustment section on this recent I was wondering why Chucky's terror radius is still set at 32 while Pig, Ghost Face, and Skull Merchant recently had theirs reduced to 24 meters.
So you've changed three killers with a stealthy mechanic that can suppress their terror radius to 24 meters, it seems odd that Chucky hasn't got the same treatment. Is there a design reason behind this, or has there been any discussion about potentially adjusting it? - Be nice if a Developer or the Community Manger could comment
Because Chucky gets nothing. That's what they've decided on that killer. He was a cash grab, and every day the nerfs go unreverted prove it further.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893156#Comment_3893156
Really? I thought it was more nerfy. Maybe I need to read it again lol. Ty!
edit:
Ah, yeah…. I was thinking about mending in general.
- [CHANGE] Decreased fatigue time to 2.5 seconds (was 3)
- [CHANGE] Increased fatigue move speed to 2.3 m/s (was 2.07)
- [CHANGE] Feral Frenzy lasts for 11 seconds (was 10)
- [CHANGE] Feral Frenzy cooldown is now 15 seconds (was 20)
- [CHANGE] Movement speed earned by hit during Feral Frenzy is now 0.24 (was 0.20)
- [CHANGE] Adjusted several Add-Ons.
The last two are whatever. The first two are.. gonna be felt. The middle two are going to be downright annoying and create more disconnects.
Why? Because the killer doesn't go into a massive stun after using their own power?
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892994#Comment_3892994
I mean, hooks respawn now. Several maps have had hooks added in previously unhookable areas such as the upstairs area in Ormond. I think you're forgetting a lot of the stuff BHVR has done to combat survivors trying to make themselves unhookable. Even if that weren't the case, flaming people for being glad that BHVR are addressing annoying unfun gameplay doesn't seem like the smartest way of addressing annoying unfun gameplay
They hooks shouldn't have to respawn. They shouldn't be destroyed upon a survivor death, period. It adds nothing to the game, only takes away.
And you're right about the unhookable thing. The devs have made it to where survivors want to get hooked. They can literally run to basement as soon as they're about to go down, get hooked on purpose, use Wicked for free self-unhook, take a hit with OTR, get downed again, use DS, get out of being downed again with Dead Hard. And that's a 3-gen chase, easily. What was the killer supposed to do? Know they had those perks exactly? Survivors' builds literally turn the worst possible scenarios for them into positives.
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
Tears of joy. I think we all can agree that KO was giving us horrible games due to the way it was used.
It could only be used 1 way: to slug. 🤦♀️ Glad the devs accommodate people who don't even know how perks are used.