danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898559#Comment_3898559
Agreed, except I posted that in another threat and got like 10 down votes from salty survivors
I don't think it goes far enough. But you see how survivors will fight tooth and nail against the tiniest of killer buffs.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I always thought they reverted the wrong part of the perk a couple years ago.
They should've put it back at 200%, but left in the part where it deactivates completely if a survivor is killed.
Keep the anti tunnel part in, but revert the regression.
So the killer should be punished for killing.
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@xCakeStick said:
Bringing Ruin back to 200% wouldn’t be good for balance. It was way too strong before, making gen defense overly passive, especially now that Behaviour has already nerfed 3-gen strategies. The current version is still decent, but if anything, a rework would be better than just a straight buff (which would probably get nerfed a year later anyway).
On top of that, buffing Ruin would just encourage people to stack it with other slowdown perks and let survivors suffer. Plus, you shouldn’t rely on it too much—it’s a Hex perk, and any decent team or SWF will cleanse it fast, leaving you with a wasted perk slot.
So what is healthy for killers to run? Can they even run anything decent without it being OP for the survivors? Because that's what I'm reading between the lines here. If anything, 3-genning getting nerfed would be a perfect reason to buff Ruin, because with the gen blocker all gen defence becomes weaker. 3-genning actually made finding and cleansing Ruin easier, because the killer's not gonna guard it and 3 gens at once, and when you run off to reset so that you can come back to the 3-gen and pressure it again, you're more likely to come across it. If it's decent, why isn't anyone running it? I legit haven't seen it but once or twice in like 100 matches.
And it seems like you're concerned with the process of decent killer stuff never staying around long after it's been buffed, and you understand that SWF or any intuitive team will just destroy Ruin permanently because it's a hex. So why aren't killers allowed to rely on hex perks, even knowing that they're cleanse-able? And if Ruin has to be combined with other gen defence perks to be strong, what does that make it on its own? I can never wrap my head around takes like this, where you yourself poke numerous holes in the reputation of a supposedly strong perk, but still say it's problematic design - for survivors.
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They won't do it, because it's the same mentality behind not bringing Overcharge to 400%. People see, "Uwah! Big number! OP!" and the devs don't want the backlash, even though the complaints would all come from people not understanding the game's numbers. Survivors progress generators at 400%, so that version of Overcharge would have broken even on regression, 200% Ruin would regress gens half as fast as survivors could progress, and base regression is at 100% (1/4 of the speed survivors progress) which is just sad. None of those give the killer any significant regression, unless survivors simply let a 90-50% gen go back down to 0% over the course of minutes, and good survivors simply don't allow that to happen. That's why they shouldn't play so safe with these numbers.
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Common sense came through this time. He still shouldn't have been made worse in any way. Nobody was complaining about dodging his tail attack. You're not meant to.
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@jajay119 said:
I’ve said this a few times but the rework is awful for two reasons: firstly because loops are so unsafe now it’s going to further annoy survivors in a situation that’s already contentious and killers won’t gain any real value from it. Secondly, because it’s no longer in the spirit of the perk.
I’d have changed it as follows:
-remove the block to aura reading which is the part of the perk that is used in’ a toxic way.
-if a survivor is downed they cannot health themselves for 10/15/20 seconds due to being unconscious.
- if another player wants to heal a survivor who has been downed they must first complete a ‘wake up’ action to bring them round before healing.This way it’s in the spirit of the original perk, close by survivors cannot just ‘hop on’ healing in the killers face and the toxic element is gone.
How will it annoy survivors if killer doesn't get anything from it?
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Yeah, I'd like to see any disagreements with this. Please. I say the BP cap should be 999,999,999. Is that so wrong? If so, why?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897427#Comment_3897427
Even the killer side needs hope. The few voices that are not afraid to speak out about the problems that accompany the killer. In an era of darkness, when any killer opinion will be downvoted on the forum by the surviving side. These few messages show the killers forced to hide that in a world of injustice there are still pockets of resistance ready to fight for the rights of killers…
For real though. I remember during 2020-2021 where it was like 2 straight years of killer nerfs, Freddy, Wraith, Deathslinger, Pinhead, and others one after the other, and I couldn't understand any of it. It felt like I was going crazy, because everyone in the DBD space just seemed like, "What do you mean? Of course these are good balance changes. Get good." When I had an hours-long conversation with a friend of mine who had returned from a hiatus, I felt so validated. Like every nerf I contested, he was like, "Yes, that's so dumb!" It wasn't an echo chamber. It just showed that not everyone who's vocal is representative of how most people feel on the game. There are countless killer mains who will never go to these forums, and we won't even see them leave the game because they won't be here to say it. But get them on a random PlayStation party or Discord call, and they'll be just as logical and down to earth as anybody on here. It's not as if being a killer main makes you super biased either. Like you pretty much have to be good at both roles to be good as killer, so you can understand what you can and can't get away with.
It really does feel like a resistance though, because the devs are never on our side. And if you don't know what I mean by that, just look at any patch notes, and note how the devs word their justification for a killer nerf or a survivor buff. When those in control have your back, you're not the resistance. That's what I try to tell survivors who say the devs have abandoned them despite giving them free BT and anti-camp. It feels like we do give hope to killer enthusiasts with some of our comments. We want a better game overall, but you're never gonna get that by just nerfing everything killer has, and then expecting them to make up for those losses with "skill" alone. What skill? There's no room to display it or grow it. You just lose until you're forced to adopt "dirty" strategies, and then honing those strategies becomes the actual tell of a good killer. If that's supposedly a bad thing for killers to be doing, why do survivors and comp killers do the same?
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
The game is slightly killer-sided by design. I play both killer and survivor and I’m completely fine with that. The only people complaining about this are people who don’t play killer and want EZ escapes. You can easily identity them by looking at the downvotes for my comment.
I don't think it is. The math of the game suggests that survivors should win basically every time if all players know what they're doing. Some people have tried to use false equivalencies with comp to say that it's killer sided, but the only type of tourney where you see killers getting lots of kills allows literal moris. I say look at the majority of those matches, where the survivors are severely handicapped in what they can bring, and Nurse/Blight is getting like draws against them. Or they point to the top players in the world who do killer win streaks. Okay, so 5 players can do triple digit win streaks, therefore killer never needs another buff, is basically what they're saying.
Look at certain killers, how their gameplay loop is. Legion and Plague keep survivors injured all game. Hillbilly, Myers, and Leatherface also instadown basically all game. And yet those are some of the weakest killers in the game, because their powers don't help with the broken loops. Check spots at loops give survivors time to react to whatever the killer does, so they have agency in chase, not the killer. There's several 110% killers in the game who barely move faster than survivors. There's clear double standards between killer and survivor perks. Hope gives 7% Haste forever. NOED gives 4% speed (and instadowns tbf) and it's a destroyable perk that reveals itself to the whole survivor team.
Nothing I've seen in my 4500 hours has shown me the game leans killer sided. Killers only do consistently well at bottom level where the survivors don't do their objective. If the game was killer sided, you'd be right in that it would be justified, because it's supposed to be survivors and killers, not the Scooby-Doo villain chase simulator it is now. The survivors should never be in a position where the killer is their plaything, except maybe in smurf scenarios (because there's no real solution to that). But in this game, they can make almost any killer their plaything just by stacking advantages, you know, OP map with super safe multiple loops, second chance perks, flashlight/pallet saves, check spots, shift W, super quick heals, infinitely replaceable boons, etc. Obviously not all of those will be in play at once, but it really only takes 1 for good survivors to just dominate the killer. And because the devs are forcing solos closer to that power level, to make the game "more equal" for solo and SWF, bad survivors are honestly starting to beat really good killers.
I don't really look to the downvotes or upvotes for objective "this is the correct answer" kind of validation. If something a I disagree with gets lots of downvotes, or something I say gets lots of upvotes, that's just inconsequential personal gratification. I do see a lot of downvotes on mine, but not a lot of responses. If what I say displeases you, show me where I'm wrong and let's talk about it. I feel like a lot of killer nerfs happen in this game without any legit macro reasoning. I'll challenge people on the bogusness that was the Engineer's Fang nerf, the Pinky Finger nerf, the Adrenaline Vial nerf, numerous other killer and killer perk nerfs, and even the "gen kick meta" nerf (or at least its principle). Maybe they don't bother to argue because they know I won't change my mind, but when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object, that can happen. But that hasn't stopped the devs from nerfing killers when they've also refused to change their minds. It only goes 1 way. Sure, they throw us a bone every now and then, with the FTP/MTF nerf, or the first MTF nerf (literal 3% speed just for being injured), or the removal of perma destroyed hooks (never made any sense). But looking at the greater history of DBD, I think you'll find it's just a series of killer nerfs meant to satisfy the most casual among us.
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@TieBreaker said:
Here's my thought, what's the point of debating it? What do you achieve? Seems like a complete waste of time to me.
Because the devs listen to the majority when making balance decisions, and the majority, the casuals, say that the game is killer sided. That's not fair. For all we know, half those people don't even play killer. They're playing at such a low level, they complain about like Wraith and Freddy and Ghost Face, and how killers use OP perks like stuff that shows aura or applies Hemorrhage. At least us arguing out case, there's a chance the devs will listen to us instead of people who don't know what they're doing. We have to try. If we didn't care about the well-being of the game, we'd have left long ago.
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They have a skewed view of killer, either because they don't play it or because it gives them smurf matches when they do play. It's funny how half of the complaints that go into match specifics talk about Hillbilly or Blight taking everyone out at the start. So what happens when that's not that case? Nothing? No, it's gonna be the opposite, where the survivors are walking all over the killer. Those matches don't get talked about as much, because it hurts their position that you "can't do anything" against killers. No, the ones who can't do anything are the M1 and non-S tier killers. I've seen enough matches where the survivors didn't do anything impressive, got downed back to back, and did the gens really quick anyway, to see that the game isn't balanced around good survivors. So a lot of the survivors complaining just need to get good, OR maybe they're getting messed up by solo matchmaking. But it's not the killer being too strong that's the problem.
Those of us who main killer, or believe the role really needs help, are being pushed to increasingly "radical" opinions because of how far behind killer is getting. Like, I don't know how you can even justify a killer being 110% at this point. 115% killers have a hard time catching survivors, so why do certain ones need to be 110%? Because they have a good ability? That's basically all killers, even though "good" isn't good enough in my experience. You miss a survivor once, and they're on the other side of the map. You hit them, and they're healthy, they make it to the other side anyway. That puts extra stress on 110% killers, who are either dominating or getting dominated, with no in-between, and little to no comeback potential. Hatch is another thing. Forget that it's a free escape for just a second. Why does it open even after 5 gens are done and the exits are powered? Why does the killer have to patrol 3 escape routes in a 1v4? That's the handholding we're talking about.
For a map, or anything, to be killer sided, you'd better show me how each and every killer uses it to perfection. Because if you're wanting to nerf something because 1-3 killers in the whole roster can use it, that's not very convincing. Or that it's too good against solos. Why do people always run to that, when they never have nerfing SWF as an option? Good SWF has been untouchable in this game since it came out. If 4 good solos can get a 4-man out against a really good killer, these guys will give max 1-2 hooks at 5 gens done. The communication and the coordinated builds is too much. The gens are too fast, and the random teammate save our of nowhere is too consistent. You've got to debuff their gen speed. Start somewhere. Maybe the gens should be slower for them, but the same as usual for randoms. IDK, but you cannot simultaneously balance for them and clueless solos at the same time. And because clueless solos get priority the most, and the game has been made so that they can still beat really good killers, good SWF just dog walk the killer when he comes into contact with them. I've seen it again and again. On the nights where it's mostly SWF, I don't want to play, because I'm not getting more than 1-2 kills no matter how well I play. They're able to go down near constantly, because of their meta perk cocktails, but if I make 1 mistake (allow 1 flashlight save, or get 1 person to death hook and then they hide), kiss the match goodbye.
So I don't know why all killers get lumped in with the strongest, most favorable positions possible, and the same is never done for survivors. I don't know how people get survivors who just don't do gens, and then use those matches as justification for why all killer matches are easy. I've said for years that the level for viability in killers is S tier, because anything below that, you're just leaving the match up to chance. Maybe you get survivors who don't know what they're doing, and you get a slightly less sweaty match. Or maybe you get the untouchable teams (because of such well designed maps), and get 2-3 hooks. Because if you look at how killers have to sweat, they're having to down survivors constantly, and the match result is still up in the air. If they'd just fix the matchmaking, and then the balance, the game wouldn't be in such a terrible state. Or they could change the win conditions. But what it is right now is not it.
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To dodge a Blight rush or locker tech Leatherface.
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It's just whatever. None of it makes any sense. There's so much caution surrounding new killers or old ones getting buffed, and it's like dude, they're not gonna all of a sudden be stronger than Nurse/Blight. Why can you not just make a killer decent, and then that will create more variation in killers being played? Everyone claims to support that, though half of them clearly don't, and still I don't think the devs have ever made that a priority, or ever voiced that it is. I mean, why are B and C tier killers constantly getting nerfed, for like these past 5 years straight, and the strongest ones mostly stay the same.
When they do touch the strongest ones, or the weaker ones, they don't even address what's being complained about. People complained about Blight being too fast, or breaking into every possible angle even if you juked him, and thought that destroying Adrenaline Vial would fix it. It didn't, because PC turn rate. They nerfed Deathslinger, Spirit, and Chucky, because they were "uncounterable" at loops, yet Nurse exists. And people still Deathslinger and Spirit are uncounterable, and that Chucky is strong "because of his stealth and his 3rd person," which the changes didn't fix. People still complain about Nemesis, because he "breaks pallets too fast." So what was the point of nerfing the zombie AI or his different add-ons? Pinhead can still down the box solver and get a continuous Chain Hunt if he gets lucky and snowballs, so what was the point in nerfing his add-ons? They just bandaid fix these killers, who aren't that strong in the first place, and it's not even linked to complaints. Just random balancing to go with their random matchmaking. Good job.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
People spent two years arguing for healing nerfs because survivors spent time off gens healing and it was considered op.
Now that that's been nerfed into the ground, were back to "being injured is too powerful".
Just say it: you want survivors to start the trial on hook.
Maybe it's that survivors do their objective too fast, and are too hard to down, regardless of their state? That's why I think killers ping pong between complaining about healthy and injured survivors. It's annoying to lose to survivors who just stay injured, and it doesn't matter because the risk never outweighs the benefit. At the same time, it sucks to be chasing healthy survivors all the time, because unless they're out positioned, they waste a whole minute minimum.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
because they are very biased. Same would be said if survivors said killers get handheld
Oh, so free BT and anti-camp, and 10 second longer hook states isn't handholding?
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@Thusly_Boned said:
It's kind of wild how many far less problematic maps have been drastically changed, while the most imbalanced map in the game (Badham) has remained largely untouched.
I think they probably just don't want to deal with it. With all the variants, attempting to balance it is going to be a lot of work.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896588#Comment_3896588
Badham had been a bigger problem for longer, but the Haddonfield thing is is really perplexing. Old Haddonfield was egregiously survivor sided, but when they re-worked (well, remade) it, I actually thought it was balanced overall. The houses were strong for survs, but there were a lot of dead zones that were great for killer.
But then they took all of the parts that were good for survs away, and turned it into a near guaranteed killer win. They didn't take some of the strong windows, they took all of them. It's kind of the same approach they take to perks and the like; either they make barely noticeable changes or they just nuke the thing from orbit. They just don't seem to know how to be even handed with changes.
But that said, I think Badham should be a bigger priority. There are more surv sided than killer sided maps, even with recent changes, and Badham has held the crown for ages.
I don't think so. I think it's still survivor sided, just because of its size, and because almost every pallet is a god pallet.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
And survivors wonder why killers tunnel, this is why. I don't run regress perks at all, but I do use corrupt and gens just fly. Quicker gens fly, quicker I need to kill. Spreading hooks don't kill fast enough but tunneling 1 out asap helps bring balance to the force. I think gen speeds should be reduced so killers can actually use different perks without feeling like they need to hard tunnel to get anywhere.
We can't even tunnel at this point. Survivors just take forever to go down when they know what they're doing.
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Just undo the nerfs, so he can have real power again. Good survivors will still trump him anyway, but at least he'll be able to beat inefficient survivors again. Right now he can't even beat them.
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I'm telling you. The matchmaking causes so many of this game's problems.
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So Blight gets a hook before even 1 gen is done (sounds like a very fast, easy chase), and you're there hiding in a locker. He couldn't have found you with BBQ while you were in a locker, unless you purposefully stayed in the locker after he saw you, because you got into it too late. This is just something I can't empathize with because it's not my world. I don't play around BBQ, or hide in lockers period, unless the killer is hard tunneling me and I managed to get away while on death hook. I also don't run Distortion, because again, I usually don't care if the killer finds me. You've got to be able to buy your team some time when the killer finds you. Your teammate didn't do it, and neither did you (basically giving him an instant down). So it's not what the killer's doing or your perk getting nerfed that's the problem. If you're weary of certain perks like Lethal or BBQ, you're at least playing smart by bringing Distortion (although, I'd recommend Shadowstep instead). But hiding your aura from the killer really doesn't matter if either you're an instant down when they do find you, or if they can't find you so they kill your non-Distortion teammates really fast instead (because they were the only ones the killer could find).
I used to find the game fun, too. Then I met strong survivors as killer, and bad teammates as survivor. So the real problems in this game are deeper. Your issue, or at least part of it, can be fixed by learning to run the killer. Blight's harder to counter than most, but the counterplay to him is essentially the same as an M1 killer, just that you need to think and execute faster. Learn to loop comfortably against M1 killers, and one day he'll be almost as comfortable to face.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897063#Comment_3897063
Why is it always this extreme which is used? The problem is not slugging, tunneling, camping, 3-genning or whatever. The problem is the amount which will be used.
Nobody aside from the most entitled Survivor Mains has a problem with getting slugged for pressure. Or being tunneled when the Killer needs to secure a Kill. Or when you get camped because other Survivors are nearby and provide free map pressure. Or going for a 3-Gen when the Survivors mess up.
The problem is extensive slugging up to the point of never picking someone up. Tunneling and camping with 5 Gens to go. 3-Genning from the start without ever having the intention of leaving said 3-Gen.
Same goes for Slowdown-Perks - nobody really has a problem with using 1 or 2 Slowdown-Perks, the problem comes when 4 Slowdown-Perks are stacked - since that much slowdown is not even needed.
And the result is that things get nerfed because people just overdo it. We have seen this with Slowdown-Perks, which got the individual Perks nerfed, since it is the easier solution for BHVR. They could either make them not stackable or nerf the power of the individual Perks and they went with the second one. Sucks for those who only use one or two Slowdowns, but the main reason is because people used 4 Slowdowns.
Same with the Gen Kick Limit - there is 0 issue with holding a 3-Gen when the Survivors messed up. But there is an issue with hodling a 3-Gen from the start. And this is why the Gen Regression Limit was introduced. And people who do extensive slugging, camping and tunneling are the reason why the Devs try to fix those in Phase 2.
Saying "Oh, win without ever doing this and that" is just an extreme which is a) unreasonable and b) waters down the problems which indeed exist in the game and really hurt the Survivor experience. And I dont really know why the Forums are doing that, whenever I say that Killer is not as bad as some people paint it to be, there is sometimes one weirdo who is like "Ok, show us and win 10 games in a row with perkless Trapper".
Why is the killer not allowed to play optimally? Why are they obligated to go easy on the survivors? Because that's what the slugging, camping, whatever argument "at 5 gens" is. It seems like you're okay with the killer using those strategies, as long as they lose a little first. But in my experience, you lose a little as killer, you lose a lot. You can't simply switch to those strategies mid-match for more pressure when you need it, because there almost is no mid-match. The match is over at that point, with the survivors in the lead. 1-2 gens to go with progress, and maybe 1-2 people are dead on hook at best.
You say slowdown isn't needed, but I see match after match where the survivors are consistently getting downed quick, or as quick as the killer can physically down them, and all gens are done or 1 gen is left. And that's with slowdowns. So yeah, they're not necessary because they're inadequate, and luck-based. You waste Grim or a Pain Res at a certain part of the game, oh well, you just have nothing in endgame. If the slowdown perks weren't so bad and so conditional, then maybe you could make the "gen defence OP" argument.
I can't believe anyone defends the 8-kick limit. It makes no sense, balance-wise or lore-wise. So because a gen happened to be kicked multiple times throughout a match, and the killer was not 3-genning, it just gets blocked for him and the survivors can keep pushing it freely. Doesn't seem fair to me. They pressured a gen over and over, and couldn't manage to get it done, all while the killer was going on plenty of chases away from the gen, and now he could lose against that same bad team because it's now blocked. It was an extremely radical solution to a position the survivors always put themselves in anyway. "We don't want survivors suffering this bad situation, so now the killer will have to deal with one instead."
So you're annoyed at people talking about extremes, but all y'all do is prop up solutions based on extremes. "The killer is always dominating and simply has control over every aspect of the match, while the survivors are chickens with their heads cut off, helpless." That's been used to justify base BT, base anti-camp, longer hook states, rebuffed DS, adding pallets every 5 feet because there "weren't enough," and so on. If killer is that strong, why aren't they just winning all the time at high level with ease. Why do good teams get 3-4 man outs against them, or the killer has to sweat like crazy just to beat or draw them. Wouldn't killer being OP be like them winning at 5 gens every time? The fact that they're not means they can't do it just off their own ability; the survivors have to create the conditions for that to happen, by getting outplayed or playing too risky.
It's just, with the teams I've been facing tonight, how does one even say "There's a problem with killer doing X?" X doesn't matter against good survivors. You'll be lucky to get 3 hooks against them, as they're chilling and having a good time. That's not an equal playing field at all. And again, it's not even necessary for them to be top level survivors to be in that position. They're just have to be decent or be on comms, and not face Nurse/Blight with meta builds.
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The problem is that killers that didn't do any of that also get punished by these nerfs. The defensive stuff survivors get always get weaponized. So stop doing it that way, and just buff killers in healthy ways.
The SWF problem is real, and it's just gonna keep making killers play sweaty by default. I like how y'all just continue to not acknowledge them as game breaking. What is a killer to do against them? What strategy can foolproof kill them in the 4 minutes it takes them to do all the gens? Nothing. So you go in simply hoping that the team is weak enough or makes enough mistakes to be beat. That's all you've got. That's why killers play the way they do. These SWFs exist, and news flash: they don't have to be top level to make the killer player their plaything. They can just be decent, and put on Terminator builds with DS, UB, Exhaustion perks, stunning perks, second chance perks, etc. to just make them invulnerable to anything the killer could possibly do. Forget about the 4-minute, 5-gen teams. What about 8-minute, 5-gen teams? Literally halved gen efficiency, but they're still beating really good killer players because they have a time advantage, and if not, the second chance perks and gen perks/items create the time advantage for them.
Why is it so hard for y'all to see things from the killer POV? Because I see people on here everyday talking, and they straight up don't see killers as other players. They couldn't. Because every time, I'm seeing, "Well, the survivors aren't having fun. Therefore, the killer has to lose something." "The killer's having fun, therefore the survivors must need something." As survivor, you have to be somewhat comfortable with dying, especially if your team is terrible. I get it: solo randoms suck. But that's not an issue with balance. That's clearly an issue with matchmaking, because as you claim, if your teammates were playing as well as you, you'd be outta there every time. So why target the killer player instead of the MMR system or your teammates? Why do they have to justify themselves for wanting to win, the same as you, just because they're the 1 in the 1v4? It always seems like the burden of proof is on them.
And difference between skill levels is being brushed over as well. Why do survivors die so much at low level? Because those are the players who don't improve because they don't want to. A killer doing really well down there doesn't prove a thing, because those survivors don't even know what a gen is, whereas at least the killers understand, "I hit them, I kill them, I win." So if a killer needs a buff for high level play, because he's getting stomped all the time up there, a buff to him (even a sizeable one) wouldn't make his kill rate skyrocket at bottom level, because those killers aren't playing to the best of their ability either (that's why they're at bottom). In an ideal game, that uses logic, we'd only be concerned with high level, because that's where the good players and the skill is. But because of these devs and this community, we for some reason have to factor in ALL players' performance, if not PRIORITIZING the worst players among us, even though they'd still lose if the killer was played by a chimp.
The idea that killer's harder than it's even been is not just some narrative. If you want to win against good survivors, and not just bad ones, you will have to work for it. You will have to sweat. You will have to strategize. You will make minimal or no mistakes. Because the game state sucks, and basically tells you to down survivors back to back constantly, with zero room for wasted time, or else they have a chance to escape. I thought I had a foolproof build with Pain Res and Grim and No Way Out. But guess what? All of those perks are hook based. So to use your perks, you have to give an even greater advantage to survivors in exchange, activating their Terminator modes with DH, DS, We'll Make It, and so on. Why would I want to do that, just to break even on momentum? It makes no sense. So people turned to slugging. You switch to hardcore slugging, and don't have to deal with the stupidity of those OP survivor perks, and it's like, "Why wouldn't I just do this? Why give myself the hassle of having to down 4 survivors 18 times to get them all to death hook and they all walk out, when I can down them the same amount of times and get 4 kills?" Saves you the annoyance of survivors legit waiting around to be chased, clicking their flashlight or tbagging, because they know they've got it in the bag no matter what. With slugging, they actually have to sweat, not just you. But now that's gone, I guess, because god forbid killers use decently strong strategies.
This turned into a bit of a rant more than anything. But the obvious thing is that killers are not out to make survivors miserable on purpose. They are playing the game, and using strategies to win, because the win condition is kills. If the win conditions change, and we make it more Emblem-based, killers will go for that instead, which would be healthier and more fun for everyone. But all I see is that we've got a sucky game state, sucky win condition, and survivors use the killers as their scapegoat for why the game is that way, instead of contemplating literally anything else.
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@Madmillennial said:
Title.
I want to know everyone's thoughts. Who plays swf only? Who's mostly solo/swf/survivor/killer mains?
I know solo q probably has the least fun. I want to know why. Let's open a dialog to see what the common issues people have. :)
I guess I'm having fun. I just need to not face unbeatable teams as killer, and get decent teammates as survivor. Tonight, I got my wish.
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That would've been preferable. Nobody likes playing on that map as killer. It's why survivors always put up offerings for it. So instead of nerfing it, which it's already been downsized btw (that's how ridiculous it is), they just add another variant which will probably feature just as bad tile design.
I'm for maps of the same realm that are actually different. Like some of you may not know this, but Garden of Joy is in the same realm as Unknown's theater map. You'd never know it unless you read it, or saw that the map offering brings you to both. I'm fine with stuff like the Coldwind variants, where there's a different main building and other characteristics for each iteration. But I prefer more varied looking maps.
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@[Deleted User] said:
if "Tokyo ghoul" is the new road dbd walks, then im out for sure, i think he looks like a joke. it will never be a killer i can respect. - I mean no offense by this, but that is how i feel.
Well, you will because you'll have to play against him. Same with people's initial reaction to Trickster. You can't just say, "I defy thee." and then they're not a threat anymore.
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Well, a base Corrupt for totems could be nice. Kind of like that Dracula perk, or does that only block chests?
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Any maps with weird hitbox obstacles probably, like the original Eyrie, Garden of Joy, Badham, Ormond, etc.
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Y'all are making me feel stupid. I'm lost.
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Exactly. They've killed his ability. They've killed basically everything that made him unique. When people critiqued him, it's like we were playing two different games. He's 110% with 1 dash, which already makes him a worse Blight (yet they wanted him nerfed before Blight, right?). All he had that was different was going into his mode which gave him stealth (which is whatever) and his Scamper and dash attack.
I was never that accurate with his dash attack. You couldn't be on console, and with PC you could just hard aim to almost anywhere you wanted, as always. So I defaulted to using mostly Scamper to catch-up, not the dash attack. I played him almost exclusively with the add-on that gave 2% Haste after a scamper, and even at weak filler pallets, good survivors would just act like it wasn't there. At best, he got a 50/50 slide out of them. He performed weaker at those tiles than any other killer, because he was 110% (112% with the add-on didn't make any difference). It was only at very specific loops which were long on 1 end and short at the other end where he excelled, and even then sometimes those loops had something jutting out, or there was obstacles around it, to where a survivor could still dodge the incoming dash attack. The window where you could actually get survivors was so small. But people insisted that he was the most broken killer the game had ever seen. Dude, he's 110% and can be counterplayed even at favorable loops. Due to ad populum, which always skews to the casual end of the playerbase, he was nerfed anyway.
And so he was then a killer who could only Scamper after his dash had begun. But that made it useless, because like OP said, the survivors can just vault a window like at shack, and hard hug the wall, so that he can't possibly turn to hit them. With old Scamper, he still had a chance to hit them if they didn't reposition in time, and they still had a chance to time him out on his stealth mode. Now the survivor won that interaction every time. But people said he was stronger (somehow), because his ability came back quicker. So him being considered decent in that state has made people imagine that he was WAY OP in his original version, when he wasn't. But then that nerfed version was further nerfed, because while killers like Nurse and Blight exist, it's the 110 killers that need nerfs, right? Clearly not showing casual complaint bias there.
His current state, most people are in agreement that it's trash, because he's got a longer dash attack but it's way slower, like the most choreographed and reactable thing in the game. I argued he needed a little help even in his original iteration, so why they have a change of heart/mind on what's adequate killer strength in the game, I'll never know. I stopped playing his original version, because after extensive testing I'm like, "There's a dozen killers who can do better than this." Chucky will be getting buffs very soon, but I don't think it's gonna do anything. You've already taken away the thing that will enable him to (possibly) beat good players, which is his manual Scamper. Without that, he's just a nothing killer. Sure, he can dash attack survivors out in the open or in a dead zone, but aren't they the ones who put themselves in that position? Or in any position where Chucky could possibly down them?
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It's probably showoffs smurfing.
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He needs to go back to the release version where he actually had stuff he could do.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896209#Comment_3896209
I think they are saying fixing it was unintended. So the unintended fix to an unintended exploit...is being fixed. But not the actual exploit that has been abused for years.
Thanks guys, can't wait for the next 4 man slug Oni match with no counterplay. Because skill expression means "my opponent's input doesn't matter because I can use an exploit to hit them regardless of what action they take".
Yeah, they had a real chance here to do balance and give actual counterplay. They chose not to, the one time their spaghetti code led to a good change.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
If people honestly care about console players and their struggles, then survivor 360s should be nerfed, because it’s not fair that survivors can spin around a killer faster than a controller player can spin their character.
They were even set to fix this at some point too, by giving survivors new running animations. But too many people complained and they didn't go through. "I can't 360 anymore!" "It's too hard to 360!" "The movement feels awkward!" Imagine all the terrible stuff in this game that's tied to how survivors currently move. Like when people say, "Huntress shouldn't have hit me! Broken hitboxes!" Yes, hitboxes which you didn't want fixed, and instead want to stay with the hunched forward running animation where your character's heel has an invisible giant hitbox.
The 360s are a serious problem. If they weren't so effective, survivors would never do them. But if they get a hint that you're a console player, they'll start doing it, and get absolutely free dodges when they should've got hit. Then they call it skill and/or the killer being bad. And it literally encourages what the most popular survivor content is, which is bullying baby killers, like "Look! 360ing a killer 8 times in a row! Lol!"
I've managed to counter 360s, mostly, like spinning my camera, as they spin around me, to hit them. But other survivors know how to do the full 360s which are actually uncounterable, because they force the aim dress. They say "Just wait for the spin to finish and hit them," but then they're still running at full speed and actually make the pallet/window, because you had to "step back" as they tell you to do to hit them. Except it doesn't lead to a hit, because they if they do it anywhere even close to a loop, they make it there safe.
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@Raccoon said:
It's like everyone has Lightweight basekit or something.
They're appearing at weird intervals and I can't track anyone.
It's almost unplayable.
You used to even be able to hear the sounds as killer. Not anymore. That's this game in a nutshell. The killer gets his sight and sound impaired at base.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896010#Comment_3896010
Just his tail needed to be changed. Burn changes are a complete miss imo
No. His tail could do with the miss cooldown reduction. It did not need to be more choreographed with the slower start-up and the loud sound warning survivors. Those changes were made for noobs, who will lose to him regardless. That's what most killer nerfs are, just making the killer weaker for high level, and the noobs' performance stays the same.
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@bazarama said:
On console xeno is a m1 killer.
Too hard to hit turrets and nerfs will make it even worse to play.
Total waste of a licence.
It's like the devs haven't watched a single movie.
No speed, no acid no wall/ceiling
I've managed to get quite consistent with his tail on console. It's just unreasonably hard to aim it once it's started, so you have to aim in straight lines, and hope it doesn't magnetize to the pallet/window/object instead of the target survivor. The thing that makes flamethrower turrets hard to hit is, again, not being able to control it once it's going, but more importantly, by the time you're able to aim at and get close to it, you're like 90% burned WITH the heat reduction add-on. And if you hit it with the tail attack, you go into the massive cooldown as if you'd missed (also cancelling Bloodlust), but you almost have to do it that way instead of an M1 because your heat builds up so fast, you'll get burned out 90% of the time because of the close distance you need for the M1. And these changes are reducing the tail miss cooldown, but what is the point if the start-up of the attack is also slower?
Yeah, most people with disappointed with what they did with Alien. He's just a ranged killer that has nothing to do with wall-crawling, stealth, or the facehuggers, and gives the survivors free flamethrower turrets (which isn't even a thing in the movies) to burn him. Not what anyone was expecting, or wanted.
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
Yeah I really don't understand why they felt the need to nerf Xeno. It feels like a killer that sat in an OK spot, before this. The only good change is the tail changes, the other ones are just completely unnecessary and will make him Trapper-tier.
No! That's the one change that's the most destructive. Don't you see?! His tail is already hard to hit. How long of a charge time does he need? The better miss cooldown won't mean a thing.
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@Xernoton said:
I think the main reason why they did remove it wasn't because of strength but because of how stupid it felt like as a survivor. You apply the correct counterplay, which is to put an object between yourself and the killer and they still hit you.
I highly doubt that this happened often enough to significantly impact his strength even on the highest skill levels but it's equally important to consider how fun something is to play against as it is to play. And in this instance it felt terrible getting hit like that.
I don't like removing skillful gameplay options and I can 100% understand why you wouldn't like it but looking at this from a neutral perspective, there was no way to satisfy both sides.
Yeah. I never knock anything that killer has, but this was just stupid. You're supposed to dead angle him and Blight, to where at best they have to guess which way or the other you're gonna go once they get past the object, and adjust themselves, or else they don't get to hit you. How they function now, you can't dead angle them. They just break into any angle you could possibly go to, like Nurse with +1 step. All because of a flick. That's just game breaking. It doesn't help that their animation of hitting you never lines up. They're always far away from you or facing the wrong direction, and on their screen, you're not even on their screen when they down you. I think that kind of proves why it shouldn't be in the game.
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If you're talking about in one sitting, just get lucky with the matchmaking. If there's too many sweaty opponents, just play something else. That's what I do on my bad nights.
If you're talking about overall playtime, I've got over 4500 hours, and it's hard to have fun.
@Mr_K said:
We play this to have fun? 🤯
Ikr?
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@Madmillennial said:
You load up, wait a few minutes to start a match. Within the first 15 to 20 seconds you're found first for whatever reason. You kite the killer for a bit, get downed and then.... games done....
The killer decides to hook you, camp outside the hook timer, and just wait. You however are playing solo-Q and pray your team knows how to deal with this situation. They don't unfortunately, and you get saved late and lost a hook state.
You get saved however it's super late, by only 1 survivor and in front of the killers face. He decides to go for you again. You kite him a bit more knowing yourgoing to die but it's okay at least your team has all the time in the world to do the gens right?
Nope.
They stood around, hid, lollygagged. Got 2 gens done the whole time this was going on. I get downed again and die immediately on second hook.
I end the match which took all of about 8 minutes 10 if you include the pre load lobby with a whopping 8k points for all my troubles.
Survivors get punished when killers play dirty. We get no chance to get points bc we are robbed a game. Time wasted, frustrating as all get out and frankly not fun
Unfortunately this happens alot more than it should be we are at the mercy of how the killer decides to play ontop of random chance you get a decent team. Odds are against you both go in your favor in a match.
I hope they do something about this with the points for tunneled Survivors to make the match worth preservering and not "going next" during the quality of life changes.
Don't need massive game changes to fix the tunnel camp, just need point adjustments I think.
Thanks for reading.
This is why escapes aren't skillful, because it's just a matter of if you were the last one in the killer's sights or not. And you can't balance the game off teammates not knowing what they're doing. MMR is supposed to place bad with bad and good with good. This is why I actually prefer an emblem based matchmaking system now, because playing the game normally gets punished, and nothing is being done to fix it.
For right now, all we can do is change our mindset. Doesn't matter if you all die in solo. Just as long as you know you did your part in chases, or gens, or both, you get the BP, the emblems, and the satisfaction. Same thing with killer. Just focus on slowing the game down enough to get as many chases in as possible.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
It's an elimination game, someone needs to go out first. That one the goes out first will always feel they miss out on a match when others are still playing.
Surprisingly simple, good answer.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/440137/how-old-are-the-mods-in-these-forums
I don’t see how this information could be used in a way that incites positivity and respect.
It's only as disrespectful as the people who'd use it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/440276/how-is-the-new-knock-out
I messed around with it a bit. Its going to be pretty nice on m1 killers to counter predropping. But unfortunately like anything else, because those killers need to stack slowdown it probably won't help them much.
I'm just hoping that one day they "nerf the addon and buff the basekit" with these gen defense perks like they do killer addons so we can actually have diverse builds.
Diversity in killer builds that are actually decent? That's against the law.
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I use Pain Res, Grim, No Way Out, Remember Me on everyone now. But I usually play Nemesis, Unknown, and Xenomorph.
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His turning should either be locked that way, or allow console players the same range of last-second movement. Pick one. And no compensatory buffs. What you have now is a killer who's uncounterable when played on PC, more than Spirit or Deathslinger ever were (they weren't), and who barely functions on console because of how bad the hitbox/turn rate is.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895176#Comment_3895176
YOU TELLIN ME IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO FREQUENTS THE FORUMS WHILE COOKED??
LMAOO
I'm sometimes on them when I'm high on anger. That's as close as I get.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/440053/no-more-cheap-flashbang-saves
This is a bug i called out during the release of the unknown. Nice to see its finally getting fixed. Not only did it allow for survivors to get pallet saves when before you could pick up a survivor on 1 side of a pallet to body block the save, but now you can drop flashbangs inside the killer model anymore.
So that's what was happening. I was like, "How?! I'm blocking them!" All it took was SWF purposefully going down under a pallet with Background Players and it was an uncounterable save.
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@supersonic853 said:
Inb4 comment "wow another survivor nerf" like this wasn't unintended before lol.
That's legit how people think. They cite Bloodlust and Entity Blocker as survivor nerfs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Nerfs might be harsh, but I agree he needs more counterplay. His pickrate is completely irrelevant on whether to change him or not.
How does he need more counterplay? You play against him like any ranged killer, predrop and los denial/distance, and then literal free flamethrower turrets that are a radar and take him out of his power, or at least slow him down. Y'all would find a reason to nerf Ghost Face if you could.
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@BlackRabies said:
The flame throwers got an insane buff possibly stronger than even EMPs were on Singularity release. This nerf feels almost on par with Hillbilly overheat change that only made it far worse for everyone or Skull Merchants butchering. Only difference is there's a promise on updating SM, but looking at BVHR past history with making changes it could take years before it comes. Xeno gutting could likely stay with no foreseeable changes.
As if EMPs aren't still strong. The problem with these items is they disable the killer's power for free. Nobody wants to play a killer who has to suffer that every single match.