cogsturning
cogsturning
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@EntityNea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062670#Comment_4062670
another example of BHVR not understanding proper game design.
matchmaking needs to have a bit of randomness to it as well, or things like that happens.
People need a break sometimes, even if they're high rank.
I dont remember what game does this (it might actually be more than one), but one method to matchmaking is to deliberately make it slightly unfair - give you some matches where you're "expected" to win, and some matches where you're "expected" to lose - but still without matching you against people completely out of your league. That way it doesn't get as frustrating, like what happened before where people kept getting only sweaty opponents.It's not very fair though, to give people a break at other peoples' expenses. The game shouldn't be deciding you'll be a little snack for someone else. I certainly don't want that sort of thing in my lobbies. I want equal opponents and close matches, not ego-boosting freebies.
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@jesterkind said:
I don't know about should, but I think they easily could.
What we have so far spans the first two eras of Resident Evil, the OG era represented by Nemesis and the middle era represented by Wesker. If they went for the third, modern era of DBD with something like a Jack Baker or a Lady Dimitrescu as the killer, that'd definitely work out.
I imagine we will definitely be getting more RE content of some kind after Requiem did so well, but it may just be skins. I'd be down for that, we inch closer and closer to getting an Alex Wesker or Moira Burton skin…
Yes! Revelations 2 deserves a little love.
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The regular method is still not working, but you can do it through here:
New people, please do. Y'all are hard to keep track of.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062705#Comment_4062705
The first two show the scores from an abysmal stomp of very bad players. Everyone getting 10kish points with me not playing dirty is horrendous. They had zero idea how to deal with me. And four players that are bad with no banners or badges implies new players. I didn't know how to equip those when I was new either. I was maybe backfill in those lobbies, but this simply should not be allowed to happen. And it happens quite a bit. It's not fair to these people.
So you’re using cherry picked screenshots of scoreboards, emblems, and title cards, then filling in the missing piece — the actual gameplay, with your own explanation to claim that the MMR system is throwing high-MMR killers at new players?
Not to mention that in the screenshots you posted, some of the low scores include a bot in the match. In the one where there isn’t, the scores are actually decent, with the only low one looking like an obvious friend who’s probably new to the game.
If you're making a claim this big, it needs actual documented gameplay showing a clear pattern. Screenshots alone don’t prove anything.
The hours argument is also weak. It’s basically hearsay. There’s no real data there for anyone to examine and confirm the pattern you’re describing. There’s no proof that you’re consistently going against full teams of brand new players where their hours actually reflect that.
What makes the claim even more questionable is that you can go on Twitch right now and watch killer streams for hours. If matchmaking was regularly throwing high MMR killers into lobbies of brand-new survivors, you would see it at least occasionally. But you don’t. It essentially never happens. And when it does look like there’s a weak link, it’s usually obvious that the player is a friend who got pulled into the lobby.
I've had players that were clearly new being protected by the friends who dragged them there. I do the same thing with new friends. You tell them to hide, sit on gens with them, take the aggro, body block for them. No one was helping these baby Fengs. And even if this was the case, it still shouldn't be happening
Most SBMM systems work like this in PvP games. If you queue with a newer player, the system isn’t going to place you in matches against beginners. The match will usually be based on the higher MMR player instead.
I also want to add that players bringing new friends into their games could help explain why solo queue has a higher overall escape rate than other group settings.
I know everyone in this forum loves to think that they're at the tippity top of MMR and are The Greatest Player that Ever Lived (while struggling every match. I'm still trying to figure that one out) but I never said I was upper MMR. I can't presume something like that without being able to see it, and to see everyone elses so I can compare notes. What I do know is I'm not at the level of someone with 50 hours and, thus, shouldn't ever see them in my matches for any reason at all. I remember being a brand new killer and getting player's with thousands of hours though. I remember visible Pretiges in lobby and seeing all p100s, not even understanding what it meant, but knowing it didnt look right. It absolutely happens. You can just look at people's hours.
The bots were endgame abandons, not DCs. I'm not a streamer. Regular, casual players don't record all their matches. All you have is people's words. Take it or leave it. Not sure what I'd gain in twisting the truth. I'm just asking for appropriate matching because pity isn't what I want to feel.
I have a ton of screenshots of people's low hours but I don't have them on my phone. I can literally take 10 a day if you'd like.
You're last statement is exactly why I think the "SWF is OP" argument is bs. If a high MMR player links up with 3 mids and they get a high MMR killer, they have a good chance of losing. It really should average out to a mid killer. I can only hope the MMR rework does something about these issues. Matches shouldn't be decided in the lobby.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062642#Comment_4062642
Let’s actually break down what these screenshots show, because they’re not proving what you think they are.
First, prestige and “baby perks” are not indicators of MMR. I’ve gone on long killer winstreaks and still faced teams with low prestige and basic perks that ended up being extremely sweaty. Prestige reflects time spent or bloodpoints invested, not skill, and perks simply reflect what someone has unlocked or chosen to run. Neither of those things are used to determine matchmaking rating.
Your third screenshot is also easily explained by a very common situation: a SWF group queueing with a newer friend. That happens constantly. It would also explain why nobody disconnected. The other screenshots could be the exact same situation. If I took screenshots every time I loaded into a lobby that looked like that, I could make the exact same claim you're making, but once the match actually plays out, those games are often far sweatier than the lobby suggests.
The bigger issue here is the evidence you’re using. Screenshots of a few scoreboards are not meaningful proof that matchmaking is broken. That’s a huge claim, and the evidence you’re presenting is extremely weak. If you want to argue that the MMR system consistently puts you in the wrong bracket, then the standard of proof should be much higher than cherry-picked lobby screenshots. You’d need documented gameplay across many matches showing a consistent pattern.
I currently don't enjoy survivor. I still play it. Reasons for continuing are complex and multi faceted. There's money wasted, time sink, addiction, stubbornness, etc. Lots of people playing this game are unhappy. Just look around you. Same angry people complaining about the same stuff everyday.
This goes back to what I said earlier about ego. A lot of the frustration in this community comes from ego. When players lose, especially in a game where both sides can taunt each other, people vent and blame mechanics instead of the loss itself.
If the frustrations those angry players complain about were truly valid balance issues and not just wounded egos, they would stop spending money on and playing a game they claim to dislike.
The truth is that much of the DBD community has an “us vs. them” mentality, and when “them” wins, waves of frustration hit hard. The taunting that happens in matches only makes it worse.
That’s why logic often doesn’t help in those discussions, because the real issue isn’t the mechanic. It’s a bruised ego.
I didn't say a single thing about Prestige or low level perks. The first two show the scores from an abysmal stomp of very bad players. Everyone getting 10kish points with me not playing dirty is horrendous. They had zero idea how to deal with me. And four players that are bad with no banners or badges implies new players. I didn't know how to equip those when I was new either. I was maybe backfill in those lobbies, but this simply should not be allowed to happen. And it happens quite a bit. It's not fair to these people.
I've had players that were clearly new being protected by the friends who dragged them there. I do the same thing with new friends. You tell them to hide, sit on gens with them, take the aggro, body block for them. No one was helping these baby Fengs. And even if this was the case, it still shouldn't be happening. A player with 10 hours shouldn't go against one with thousands. They're worse than a bot or a dead player, theyre actually a detriment to the team. It's a guaranteed loss.
You realize I can see many of these people's hours too, right? Everyday I get people with a couple hundred hours or less. There are cross progression accounts, but it's easy to spot an actual baby in-game. Hours don't equate to skill, but 100 hours is not enough to go against an experienced player I'm such an info-heavy game, especially as survivor.
It's pretty obvious to me that the game prioritizes speed over accuracy. I'd also believe it gives you these easy matches sometimes as an ego boost. My last match last night was against a Singularity that clearly had zero idea how to play the killer. They got two hooks. I don't personally want that ego boost, I just feel bad for these people, but considering how many people in this community cry and blame the game as soon as they lose a match, I'm sure many do want everything for free.
A lot of the frustration in this community comes from ego. When players lose, especially in a game where both sides can taunt each other, people vent and blame mechanics instead of the loss itself.
We actually do agree on this, but there are also issues in a constantly changing, live service game that need addressing. The game is not perfect, and many matches are decided by matchmaking and RNG before you ever load in. The devs made an effort to address pain points last year, clearly recognizing an issue, but sadly lacked the backbone to implement a single idea. Any effort at meaningful changes gets shutdown by outcry from a biased and jaded community. This is why so many people in this community are so disgruntled. Nothing meaningful gets changed, the stale meta persists, toxicity is rampant, and prioritizing efficiency over fun is making for a grim experience.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062579#Comment_4062579
Not comparable at all, I dont care about milestones you barely even need them to finish the rift, they are practically optional as you'll progress them enough just playing to finish while doing dailies. But you need to do ALL the rift challenge to unlock all the rewards, so i have to do this one. So now i specifically have to play in an unhealthy way to improve my odds.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062600#Comment_4062600
I barely ever naturally get into a hatch race, so yeah i basically have to try and engineer my chance to go for it, at the expense of others. I'll have to also sacrifice gate escapes to look for it too (proving escape rates are artifically lowered) because id rather get this done than care about escaping. It's awful design, i don't have time to sit here and try and farm a conditional and stupid challenge while playing my least prefered role to boot.
Escape challenges are fine, i escape often enough, just never through hatch. So rat key build it is i guess.
But you need to do ALL the rift challenge to unlock all the rewards, so i have to do this one.
I never even look at the Rift challenges and I finish the Rift in three to four weeks. I've been done with the current one for a minute. All you have to do is play a decent amount and you'll get everything.
You can legit just bring a hatch offering and tell the people in the lobby chat not to wait for you if you get the gates open. There's no reason at all to throw.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062618#Comment_4062618
I’m not sure where you got the idea that I said matchmaking was perfect. I never said that. I just believe it’s working as intended.
The examples you’re giving have never happened to me, and I’ve also never seen streamers who play killer for hours experience this either.
I’m not saying you’re lying, but a claim that big needs to be documented and posted here on the forums so the developers can actually see it.
Until then, it’s kind of like saying you saw bambi jump over the moon.
There's nothing you can do if you land three baby teammates and a highly skilled killer.
Lol I’ve never seen anything like that, a highly skilled killer going against baby survivors. All my Blight games feel like championship matches. Even the streamers I watch who play killer for hours never seem to get that kind of luxury. Are you sure they’re as good as you think they are?
As for the game being alive just because it’s free-to-play, I’m sure that plays a role, but it mostly comes down to whether people actually like the game or not. If you like DBD, you play it. If you don’t, you stop.
If most people truly didn’t enjoy the game, it would’ve died years ago.
I don't think the developers care. They know how their system works (I hope). These complaints about matchmaking are a regular thing here.
I don't record my matches but I sometimes take screenshots. Do these look like players I should have been matched with from these scores?
How about default Feng who was absolutely terrible and hasn't even figured out how to put on perks yet:
This default Feng managed two perks!
These people don't have cosmetics. They don't have badges and banners. Many have double-digit hours. I'm not just getting bad players regularly, I'm getting impossibly bad ones. Ones that should be below the soft cap still. Meanwhile, me, average skill, playing chill, and giving hatch:
If this is "working as intended" then this is EBMM not SBMM.
If you like DBD, you play it. If you don’t, you stop.
I currently don't enjoy survivor. I still play it. Reasons for continuing are complex and multi faceted. There's money wasted, time sink, addiction, stubbornness, etc. Lots of people playing this game are unhappy. Just look around you. Same angry people complaining about the same stuff everyday.
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I yo-yo back and forth from having the worst baby opponenets with 50 hours to insanely skilled ones with 5k+. Lately it's been the former in my killer lobbies and the latter in my survivor. I've given hatch at least once a session to these poor hapless babies, many of whom get sandbagged by frustrated teammates when I'm on my way to a no-effort 4k at 5gens. As survivor, every other killer has been a p100, while my teammates have been terrible. It's probably been the worst I've ever seen it for the last couple months.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062582#Comment_4062582
I often get sad little baby survivors with 200 hours who run in straight lines on edgemap. These are 4ks at 5 gens unless I give someone hatch, which I often do, because I choose to police the matchmaking that BHVR won't.
This has never happened to me, and I’ve watched top Blight players stream without it happening to them either, so something outside matchmaking is probably going on in your case.
It’s also natural for killers to go on longer streaks than survivors because killers depend on one player, while survivor success depends on four — their skill, coordination, communication, and perk synergy. Because of that, you can’t realistically expect long streaks in solo queue, and even SWFs need strong coordination to maintain them.
Matchmaking eventually places players where they belong, so you’ll keep winning until you reach your proper bracket, and then the easy games stop for survivor and killer.
A lot of the frustration in this community comes from ego. When players lose, especially in a game where both sides can taunt each other, people vent and blame mechanics instead of the loss itself.
That’s also why the game has stayed alive for so many years. Evens some people who say they quit often come back because they know it isn’t really a balance issue, they know they can improve, they just need somewhere to vent in the moment.
That’s why the forums tend to look so emotional. Nobody ever comes back to say 'Hey i over reacted about something i was wrong". You will never know if someone found the answer to there problem on here even after help because that part isnt important to them. Think about that.
So you're saying matchmaking is perfect, even when I get fresh installs on killers I have 70-80% KRs with, right after getting a team of super coordinated juicers? Or when I get a 10k hour Blight and those previous baby survivors are now my teammates? That makes sense to you? You might actually be the only person I've seen with full faith in this system. I guess the MMR rework that's supposed to happen soon is also happening for no reason, since it's perfect. A system based solely on escapes and kills is not nuanced enough to be accurate.
I believe people should take responsibility for thier losses more, particularly killers, since you're fully self sufficient, but some things are out of your hands. RNG plays into the matches a lot. If I land a team of Exhaustion prerunners on Badham as Dredge with the awful locker spawns I'm pretty much screwed. As survivor, especially soloq, matchmaking lapses can take the game out of your hands. There's nothing you can do if you land three baby teammates and a highly skilled killer.
I'm not talking about the people who come here to cry. I don't take the I-quits seriously because I see those same people playing again a few weeks later. I'm talking about actual friends, people I know, that will not touch the role. I have others that will only play with friends because it's awful without company. I have some that i haven't seen log on to this game in 6 or more months because they just quietly walked away. This game hemorrhages players, but it ropes in new ones with IPs and being free to play on console. That's how it sustains itself. There's always new meat for the grinder when others finally burn out.
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I escaped through hatch yesterday, with a key that I found, and I'm not a big on hatch. You don't have to throw to get it. Just select the challenge and bring hatch offerings until it naturally happens that you're the last one left.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062501#Comment_4062501
Using popular opinion to strengthen an argument that is logically flawed doesn’t actually make it stronger. The community has already shown that emotion often outweighs logic and reality when it comes to balance discussions.
What you’re not understanding is that the killers or survivors going on these extreme win streaks are outliers within their own bracket. These are high-MMR players who are better than the majority of players even at that level — the best of the best, the top 0.1% of that bracket.
Because of that, matchmaking often can’t find them proper opponents. That’s why these pros can go on such long streaks before eventually running into another well-known high-level player who finally ends it.
The public data we do have on high-MMR kill rates and escape rates already reflects this.
That’s one of the reasons you can’t use these players as examples for why something should be nerfed. The gap they create is mostly a result of skill, not the mechanic itself.
When players are performing at that level, the difference they create in matches is far more about player ability than balance.
I don't know if I'd call it opinion. The matchmaking either works or it doesn't. I often get sad little baby survivors with 200 hours who run in straight lines on edgemap. These are 4ks at 5 gens unless I give someone hatch, which I often do, because I choose to police the matchmaking that BHVR won't. Then I get soloq survivor matches with a high-hour p100 killer and terrible teammates.
The problem is that killers are much more likely to go on streaks. I can't speak for everyone, but it's much easier as an average player to have small streaks as killer than as survivor. I don't think I've ever won 10 survivor matches in a row, but I regularly win every killer match I play in a session. It shouldn't feel that uneven, especially when you play both.
You can't just use data for changes either though. If your game is perfect on paper but makes everyone feel bad than they won't play it. At this point I know more people who've quit survivor than ones who still play.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062271#Comment_4062271
What I don’t understand about your logic is this, who are these killers going on win streaks in the hundreds?
If you’re talking about specific pro players doing that with high skill-ceiling killers, how can that realistically be used in a balance discussion? These players are playing near perfectly every match on killers they have thousands of hours on.
Also, why is it that many high-level SWFs who go on win streaks end up having those streaks broken by another well-known high-level killer player? These players are all competing within an extremely small bracket at high MMR. Statistically, they’re almost invisible compared to the overall player base, even at high MMR.
You can’t make the point that tunneling is OP and then use examples of pro players that most people will never encounter in their games. Statistically, the tunneling killers people face in most matches, even at high MMR, don’t have the skill level to ever get anywhere close to something like a 1,800 win streak.
Another thing to consider is why survivors would ever go on longer win streaks than killers in the first place. A survivor team has many variables that determine its effectiveness: coordination, individual skill levels, perk choices, and communication. All of that has to align across four different players.
For a killer, the main variables are the player’s skill and the killer they choose. If you take a very good player and put them on a strong killer with an optimal perk build, it’s natural that they’ll go on longer win streaks than a four-person survivor team where multiple variables can affect the outcome.
Because of that, it’s expected that killers will have longer win streaks. With survivors, the outcome depends on the performance of four separate players, not just one. And we’ve even seen data showing that most of the player base in all MMR brackets consists of solo queue players, which significantly reduces the overall effectiveness of survivor teams against a very good killer player, regardless of the MMR bracket.
Also, why is it that many high-level SWFs who go on win streaks end up having those streaks broken by another well-known high-level killer player? These players are all competing within an extremely small bracket at high MMR. Statistically, they’re almost invisible compared to the overall player base, even at high MMR.
This shows a remarkable faith in a matchmaking system that is almost universally considered terrible amongst the community. If the uppermost MMR players were actually put against one another regularly, then logically, long streaks should be impossible. But it's only when one of these winstreakers finally gets a proper opponent that their streak gets broken. They almost certainly had a wide variety of MMR levels thrown into their winstreak meat grinder before they got there.
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@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062421#Comment_4062421
Most people don't have a problem with ghoul, dude. There's a very loud, very vocal minority that will rest at nothing to have him destroyed.
Yeah people complain about him and make feedback posts with suggested changes daily—and I've seen multiple people with names like "Ghoul=DC"— because most people are fine with him, according to you. Pretty sure it's mostly the people that play him that are fine with him, and many have openly said it's because he's easy. There's definitely a very loud, very vocal minority in this game's community, but it's not the ones you're talking about.
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@AGM said:
I could always be wrong but I think it's a coincidence or bias on your end. I've been using FTTE for a good while and the Obsession ends up whoever the RNG tells it to be.
In an "ideal" scenario, the person with the most hook stages becomes the Obsession 11% of the time. That's not all that low of a chance.
If they ever did nerf it though, limiting the Obsession candidates to people with fewer hook stages is a cool idea.
I don't think it's a coincidence. I see it a lot and have talked about it with others. The amount of times it goes to someone who was just unhooked is as ridiculous as it is predictable. I was just now in a match, sitting on a gen with a guy with two hooks when I had none and it went to him, and I knew it would.
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@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061942#Comment_4061942
How many nerf ghoul threads are there on the forums right now for a killer who the devs have said is statistically average in terms of kill rate and slightly above average at the highest end MMR?
Yeah ok.It doesn't matter what the numbers say if people are miserable. He remains the most hated killer in the game to play against, while the anti-cheese ptbs were nuked immediately instead of just getting adjustments. We never even got to see any real numbers for those because they never got implemented. They could have tried 15s of Elusive or one other tiny thing to improve the situation, but no. So who is being listened to more?
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I feel like it always does this as well, and I wish they'd rework it so it went to the person with the least hooks instead. As it is, it feels almost like a tunneling perk.
The problem might also be that people who aren't on death hook are in lockers so the other person is unlucky. The best thing to do is not go in a locker if you're in good shape and someone else isn't, but people aren't keen to become targets voluntarily.
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@Dinadin said:
This hasnt changed at all lately. I see one cheater every few month at all. People are totally overexagerating.
There are tens of thousands of people playing this game in different regions at different times. They're not all going to have the same experience as you. What would be the goal of exaggerating it anyway? It's not like anyone is asking for biased balance changes. They just want more consistent actions taken against cheaters, some of which the same players have encountered in multiple games.
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I do hope we see more badges for non-default characters like Legion and Baermar down the road, and hopefully banners and charms too. This has been a lot of waiting for something that feels very minimal effort.
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I used to never see blantant cheating but lately I've been getting them. The other day I had a batch of survivors that were instahealing mid-chase, hopping back up from downs, making themselves unhookable, and instafinishing gens. They were really, really bad players though, and still managed to lose. Today I had a cheating Billy with permanat wallhacks and instant pickups advertising his wares on discord. Crazy how nothing is done about this, even with them openly advertising.
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@CrypticGirl said:
In my second game ever, I tried to Head On the Killer, not realizing that I needed a perk for that. Even if I did, I screwed it up royally by slow-exiting the locker, and the Killer yoinked me. Oops! 😅
I did this for several matches, wondering the whole time why it didn't work.
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As killer, i camped hooks and didn't understand why people were unhooking themselves. I hit people on hook thinking it was injuring them. Had no idea I was being gross.
As survivor, I also learned about Micheal the hard way. I completed outer gens on the same side of the map and thought I was clever for it, 3genning us over and over.
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What is your reason?
Addiction.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
One of the factors that players also tend to not enjoy about the ghoul is the amount of people playing as them. They are probably one if the easiest if not the easiest killer to use on a controller which probably makes his usage rate very high among console players let alone pc. Its one thing to play against a nurse or blight and get stomped, or the occasional legion round that you just have to slog through, but to play against ghoul every 1-6 rounds gets fairly frustrating. I have ghoul prestiged to 100 as a big fan of Rize from the anime but i completely avoid using the character simply because they are overplayed and everytime i go to use it im like their 4th ghoul in a row so they just stand there at a hook and wait.
If he took more skill to use even on controller his numbers might drop to more manageable numbers and he wouldnt be as annoying to face. (not hard to face as ive won against just as many ghouls as ive lost to) hes currently too fun/easy to use while not fun to play against. While something like legion is fun to use not easy, and not fun to play against but atleast that keeps their numbers in check.
(Also please add Shanoa as a legendary skin for Trevor Belmont :D)
I think this taps into an oversight that's pretty common in this game: forgetting that console players exist. This is the only crossplay pvp I've ever played and I often feel like a second class citizen. I never know if I should unlock a killer because I just assume little consideration was put into making them controller-friendly. I tried the game with a mouse recently and couldn't believe how much easier it is to land ranged hits with that sort of camera control. I never intend to play as Ghoul, but if he is that much better on controller, then that makes sense as to why he's popular. The ranged killers aren't even worth bothering with learning when you can just choose to not struggle more than PC players to use them.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061393#Comment_4061393
To be honest in my head, ranked would have it's own specific balancing changes. Similar to the rules imposed for a lot of dbd tournament. I.e. limitations on perks, characters maps.base mechanical changes to fine tune the experience to the high mmr crowd. Extra limitations for swfs depending on how many people they are playing with. Like a 4 man swf would have more limitations than a 2 man swf. There's so much that could be done to cater for those wanting to play the game at the highest possible level. And tbh if you dropped exclusive prizes for attaining certain ranks that would be enough to pull competitive players in, badges, charms, banners, even full on exclusive skins for survs or killers each season themed on achieved rank would be enough to pull in competitive players. The 2v8 class based system is an interesting idea though, would certainly make it easier to balance the experience. Just think it might put people off since they can't make their own perk builds.
Likewise casual could be rebalanced for a more relaxed, even handed experience. Like the variable gen speed system they have in 2v8 currently. Or something even more funky, one idea I've come up with is a quick survey at the end of casual matches asking how opposing players ranged between casual/ aggressive, or were they fun to play against, was their behaviour friendly, neutral or toxic? And as these surveys are answered and build up they can affect matchmaking so that toxic tryhards get matched up with more of the same. Bit of a pipe dream I know, since the current matchmaking can barely take wins/losses into account, but still, a nice thought.
This brings up a lot of challenges in dividing the playerbase. What do we consider a chill player and what do we consider a sweaty one? And what would work for who? If I use the forum as my only gage of the community, I see endless complaints about what one side has and the other doesn't. It's a lot of people who want stuff for free. They want easy wins with minimal effort. That's not what I'd call a competitive mindset. But would these people just go into casual and try to stomp because they never wanted a challenge to being with?
The prizes are an issue too. If the prizes are a motivator, they'd have to be very regularly added. Personally, I play events just enough to unlock the stuff and then I'm out. I'm sure many are like that. Something like an additional track on The Rift could maybe work, but I've been done with the current Rift for awhile, so people who play a lot would quickly complete these external motivators. I think we might also be overestimating the effort BHVR would even put into this. They won't even make anything more than a badge for P100ing.
I'll never really be on board with blanket nerfs for SWF. I played 15 matches in a party today. We had one single 4 out (excluding two killer DCs). Almost all the matches were losses. Limitations would mean almost no wins for casual parties like ours, so the average SWF wouldn't play this mode, and I don't think there's enough psycho squads to really sustain it. Also, if youre playing competitively, you shouldn't want your opponenets kneecapped immediately, unless killers can't bring antigen perks or something similar, to balance it. If anything, ranked should be the free-for-all mode. Limitations make more sense in casual.
The survey is a nice idea in theory (honestly I wish you could flag people for BMing as is) but I think people will spam dislikes when they lose or get mad. That's just people.
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Personal responsibility is not popular, if we're talking about blaming teammates or opponenents.
If we're talking about BMing, a lot of players are burnt out and angry.
Killer powers have gotten stronger but perks for them have been grounded up and pushed away. Where as the survivor perks have gotten stronger for less skilled individuals. While letting them having less then (and/or) absolute zero reasons to actually interact with the killers.
Can't remember the last survivor perk that interested me, and my beloved Streetwise was reworked into uselessness. Meanwhile I've seen Turn Back the Clock in half my survivor matches, and I've been using Secret Project constantly in my killer ones.
But there are perks for both roles that require you to do absolutely nothing to get value from them.
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This has been suggested a lot. They should try it. It's a small thing that might help a lot, particularly againat players who brainlessly drop chase and return to the hook as soon as they hear it. You still have the HUD and your eyes. They could also just delay the sound by, say, 5s.
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@killer_hugs said:
i mean there are examples where you can say, "this killer, playing at a high level is very difficult." i won't argue against that.
but even still, you can still say "this killer, played poorly, still has a higher kill rate than the escape rates of most of the survivors in the game."
that's the crux of these arguments.
further, i have almost an 80% kill rate across the board on every killer in the game. i'd also say i'm not a good killer. i'd also say i get easily dumpstered on by good teams. and most of the games i play as a killer DON'T FEEL MEANINGFUL because they are so easy. it's like 3 out of every 4 games i play require very little effort on my end to perform well. but then i can randomly get dumpstered by a good team of survivors and that feels really bad. and i might feel like there was nothing i could do, because their team was too efficient, too good at looping, used all their resources well. they easily destroy me. okay, and then the matchmaking gives me "3 easy games" where i kill everyone. then i go into another game and get dumpstered on by a good team again. this is what i'd argue actually feels bad about the game right now. games are too one sided. it's like the game is either too easy and unrewarding, or you just get straight destroyed by much better players.
This is a lot like what I experience, though usually leaning more in the other direction, with more difficult opponenents than bad ones. But when I get the bad opponents, my God they're bad. I don't know how you can go from 5k+ hour players in one match to 200 hour potatoes who run in straight lines without looking behind them in the next. Lately I've had more bad ones showing up, and I've given someone hatch probably once every session because of how terrible some of these people have been. Like, I shouldn't be 4king at 5 gens daily. It often feels like there's zero matchmaking.
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@MagixD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061695#Comment_4061695
I guess what im trying to emphasize is that if a 14k hour player who plays this game for a JOB is getting stressed out, what about all the average players? You know, those same players that vote to have 2v8 extended. Those are the majority of the dbd player base. The guys who get off work after 8 hours then hop on a couple killer matches in dbd.
But that's also someone who makes money off the game. I dont think these people should ever be used as an example of anything. I pretty much constantly advocate for the game revolving around the avergae players, but if this is the example, the 50-match-a-month everyman, this would 1) also apply to this sort of player playing survivor, and 2) should be handled by matchmaking. This person would probably also not be a very good player, like you're looking for, just an average one, unless they used to play more. And if matchmaking worked (it doesn't) it should be the solution. If you're actually very good you're opponenents should also be very good, and it should be a struggle for everyone involved. The issue is, as always, matchmaking.
But there also seems to be some people who think they're very good but are also always mad at the game, so at that point I have to wonder if they're actually good or if they cheesed their way to an MMR they don't belong in.
Stress is also something of a choice. Go hard and you'll get stressed. I had that issue recently, where I was worrying more about outcomes than enjoyment, and I've taken a step back with a killer I have fun playing, regardless of results, amd it's helped my mindset a lot. If I found the role that aggravating though, I just wouldn't play it, especially if no ones paying me to do so.
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@MagixD said:
Knightlight is an extreme example and like one of the top players in the world. The streamers I mentioned are good but not top of the world good. You can't use the very high end of the spectrum for measuring things. Knightlight says killer is easy, so bhvr doesnt need to listen to the rest of the killer population on gen speeds and survivors being hyper efficient and survivor perks combos that break the game? I'm pretty sure even Otz gets worked up in this killer games and he has 14k hours.
Worked up? But he's winning a lot, isn't he? This goes back to what I already said. Having to work for a win is not a real complaint. It's not supposed to be handed to you. It often feels like the people complaining have high KRs and just want more, and they want it to be easier. Killer is, for me, the higher stress role. I don't ready up expecting (or wanting) a 4k at 5 gens, and I wouldn't play the higher stress role if I couldn't handle the higher stress.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061644#Comment_4061644
If you want to win, you play what's optimal for that. That works for any game…
In DBD perks are "fixes", you are supposed to use perks that will help with your weakness, or fight something you don't like.It's up to you what you consider fun. I don't need perks to have fun in the game, but I know situations I want to avoid that will make it "unfun" for me and so I use perks to prevent those.
Some are fixes, if you want them to be, but I don't think backpack killers and pebble+bardic+scene partner survivors view them that way. The majority of perks are niche, useless, or memey.
That's fair. I guess I just don't find making a build based on what some else might do very enjoyable.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061684#Comment_4061684
I'm so sad that I don't see Freddy Fazbears that often. I've been there once in the last like, half a year. and then when I did, Weave Attunement made the survivors sad.
I'll never be able to do something silly like get corrupt+ secret project going on Springtrap and rush the stage
It's a good map. I feel like I get it fairly often, but I also play at least 300 matches a month, so my idea of "often" might be a little skewed.
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@MagixD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061668#Comment_4061668
Knightlight plays this game for a job, not for fun. Bad example. Also 5-10 killer players in the world doesn't represent the rest of the people that play killer.
By your logic we shouldn't buff Trapper because there's people out there who have gotten multiple 4ks in a row as Trapper.I mean, you did use streamers as an example yourself, and you wanted to hear about good killlers saying killer is easy. So this is a pretty valid example. Do you want average and bad players to sound off, or good ones? Because many good players will be streamers.
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I've actually been happy for the first time in awhile with map rotation. Like everyone else, I was getting the same 10 maps over and over, particularly Badham two or three times in a single session. But it's seems to be varied again for me. My last 10 maps were Forgotten Ruins, Blood Lodge, Freddy Fazbear's, Disturbed Ward, Shelter Woods, Ormond Lake Mine, Torment Creek, Dead Dog, Thompson House, Wreckers Yard, and Iron Works of Misery. I'm finally seeing maps I hadn't seen much at all for some time.
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In regards to non-video social media, like Reddit or the forum, you never really know where anyone is coming from. We have people who've been playing since the game's inception, and ones who've been playing for a few months. There are 200 hour players and 10k hour ones. There are what you said: survivor mains claiming killer is easy while playing against babies. But you also have killer mains saying survivor is easy while using low-hour stats inflated by abandons as examples. You have people who use their assumed MMR that no one can see as both a badge of honor and a claim to victimhood, despite almost everyone agreeing that matchmaking is poor, so MMR should only matter so much. Even when people say killer is hard, does hard mean they're losing, or does it mean winning isn't as easy as they'd like it to be?
What you don't see is much personal responsibility. Survivors blame tunneling but won't acknowledge unhooking in the killers face. Killers blame genrushijg while not accepting they overcommited for 90s. This is why I take everything I see in the forum with a grain of salt.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061626#Comment_4061626
If I bring 0 slowdown perks, then games that will end around 4-5 minutes will be way more likely. So that's why at least 1 slowdown perk is kinda mandatory unless you play Blight/Nurse. If you don't do that, you are not trying to win…
Exactly same for survivors. Complain about tunneling, but don't do anything against it. They don't even play around it and unhook while killer is still nearby.
@ImWinston said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061638#Comment_4061638
- You're absolutely right, playing without DS, Off the Record, DH, or any other anti-tunneling perk in 2026 is unacceptable... all perks that are easily accessible and counter the strongest strategy of the killer in the game. And it's the same for killers; playing without at least one slowdown perk is simply insane (unless you're a Nurse).
Genuinely curious, are you enjoying playing while feeling like you're obligated to bring certain perks? Like, is that fun?
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@Wiccamanplays said:
Agreed. The more information solo Survivors have access to the better.It would be nice if Killer could see some (probably not all) of this information too, since there’s so many effects and sources of effects in the game at this point that it can be genuinely confusing: you hit an injured Survivor and sometimes nothing happens because they got Endurance from somewhere and you have no indication or explanation as to why, or a Survivor seems faster than normal but you’ve no clue if they’ve got haste, they’re cheating or you’re just hallucinating. Killers with a lot of experience can usually figure it out but for newer or more casual players it must be baffling.
This would make perks that do these things kinda pointless though, wouldn't it. If you get a little Endurance symbol when someone recovers a slug becuase they had Soul Guard or WGLF you'll just not hit them until it's gone. Same if a killer is Undetectable. Survivors will be hyper vigilant until the symbol's gone. A whole big part of this game is figuring out your opponenets perks and countering them yourself.
@ topic
Though wiggle progress wouldn't be bad, at some point you run the risk of info overload.
If a killer is close enough, long enough, to trigger the self-unhook then I doubt Elusive and extra Endurance would do much. They'll likely hit the survivor right off hook and they have LoS already. This would also need extended haste as well to work. But triggering the anti-camp is pretty rare amongst experienced killers anyway. If they're camping, they likely know to stay out of the range anyway. And an experienced survivor will know not to self-unhook in the killer's face until the last second.
They should have just tried Elusive post unhook in general. I'm still baffled as to why they couldn't try one single idea.
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@ONSAN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061393#Comment_4061393
* Standard 1v4 (ranked match) as before * 1v4 (casual match) with restrictions, but maintaining the normal 1v4 feel as much as possible on both the survivor and killer sides. * I'm used to tunneling, camping, and slugging generation rush, so I'm not sure. * Setting restrictions on these might be an option.
But if they're pretty much the same, what's the incentive to choose one over the other? And what keeps the sweats out of the casual lobby? I don't think BP or anything like that will do it.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
This is why we should have a casual and a ranked playlist. The game is crying out for it. I find the same as OP. Everybody tryhards at the game because everybody else does.
I play killer pretty well and am mediocre at best as survivor. In my killer games i could easily get 4ks in most games, but I'm restricted to playing killers I'm good with and using meta perk builds. Unless I'm running at least 2 slowdown perks gens fly and the game is a struggle. I'm not particularly fussed about winning, but it would also be nice to kick back, play a low tier killer with an experimental or niche build and not be guarenteed to get a sub 10 minute game that's a 0k and constant BMing.
As survivor i just get constantly clapped. I'm not particularly good at running chase and can't loop to save my life. Getting good at running chase is phenomenally hard. My swf friends are the same sort of level. In fact most of them are worse at chase. When we swf we usually end up getting hatch games with the occasional 2-0k due to our co ordination or cing up against a baby killer who doesn't opt, or fails at tunneling. Honestly it puts me off playing survivor, it just ends up feeling like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. And despite my atrocious escape percentage, i still get matched against super sweat killers with 3k hours plus.
Splitting the playlist between an honest to god ranked playlist with all sorts of shiny prizes to tempt the sweats and actual effective mmr with a casual playlist would help.
Note: i say help, not fix. I'm well aware some players would just aim to seal club on casual. It's unavoidable, but there would be more decent games than there are currently, with everyone going full throttle because to not do so invites constant unpleasant losses.
The thing I always wonder when this comes up is, what would they be like? If the ranked mode looked like regular 1v4, what would the casual one look like, because it would have to be drastically different to appropriately split the playerbase into chills and sweats. I'd assume it would look like 2v8, with pre-built classes and remote hooking and whatnot, and I wonder how that would go, because I consider myself causal but a game that mostly plays itself is really unappealing to me. I'd be left not really want to play either mode. So as much as I like it as an abstract idea, I do wonder how the application would go.
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I always assumed it was secret to keep your teammates from assuming you're a rat and possibly griefing you. But yeah, maybe it's just a bad design in how it was implemented.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061164#Comment_4061164
I don't disagree with this idea, accessibility is a good thing.
I'm not seeing where this, in particular, is an accessibility issue. Just calling it one doesn't make it so, or just about any qol or even balance recommendation could be branded as "accessibility".
Something like fov slider (shadowborn base kit) helped mitigate motion sickness for people who have that issue. I can see that.
Visual terror radius for those who are deaf or hard of hearing. Ok.
Scratch mark custom colors and color blind mode is personally helpful as someone who is actually color blind.
Maybe I just don't see it, but what real world condition is "having a crosshair" trying to specifically address?
I think people basically mean financial accessibility when they say this. My nice new TV has a customizable crosshair, but my old cheap one, and my crappy monitor, do not. This sort of thing can be cut off by costs, specifically in regards to consoles, which can't use options like Reshade.
But yeah, accessibility isn't quite the right term, unless you go with it's most basic definition.
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I don't understand the win-by-all-means mentality amongst many players of this game. I usually match the energy of my opponents. If I'm playing killer and survivors are AFking under hook or running up to me to die, I pull back. If I'm survivor and the killer opens the door for us after getting two hooks, I'll give them my item and be friendly. It's not that I won't win in both these scenarios, but I'll try to not make people feel awful in the process. It's a game. It's suppose to be fun, not an exercise in punishment and cruelty.
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@BreadSilence said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061056#Comment_4061056
i have no idea why you got so many down votes. This is a very reasonable take. I guess DBD players love them their exploits.
Apparently bugs that are tricky to pull off and have been around long enough just become part of the game. I'd be fine with these "techs" if they were an intended part of the kit but they aren't. I think Wesker has been power crept and could use some changes—and If they want to rework these apects to be intentional, cool—but we shouldn't be rooting for bugs.
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A killer shouldn't be relying on bugs. Fix the exploitable bugs then reassess the killer properly.
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I've always been baffled why this game doesn't include the option for ranged killers.
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I'd really rather them buff him in some other way. The zombies are just a nuisance. It'd be different if the player controlled them in some way. I don't know why anyone wants the game to play itself.
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@ImWinston said:
- Survivor is a skin after all, maybe in 3 months of regular play you can have a level 100 survivor. What's even worse are the level 100 killers who are really bad, and above all Wesker and Springtrap who usually have a very high prestige and are among the worst killer players in the game. Sometimes with SWF we are literally amazed, to the point that they don't even know how to manage a basic loop and their power. In theory (I repeat in THEORY) if you have a level 100 killer, you should know the basics of your power.🤣
This is exactly why I've gone out of my way to level up multiple killers and p100 no one. So many times we get to the scoreboard and see the killer that got two hooks or desperation tunneled for 1 kill is a p100 we all go "a p100!?" and I don't want to be in the bad p100 club.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060786#Comment_4060786
Argumenting having no deleted post is totaly hilerious like it would ment something than just you are following rules like good guy and hiding behind it lol, even people like jester got deleted posts and accounts for no valid reason (they didnt follow rules they said), just hilerious ragebait.
I actually don't know what this says.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060681#Comment_4060681
The devs dont balance in a way that is prejudice. They have methods, the same way scientist do. It has to make sense.
This is what i appreciate from the dev team here, because it shows. Its easy to see when you play both sides and have gotten pretty good at the game. Theirs alot of popular opinions here that get flat out ignored, ignored for a long time. And the devs never cave in because if it doesnt makes sense it doesnt make sense.
They dont care about "favorites" in a forrum. If your wrong your wrong. thats a W imo.
I've yet to meet an unbiased player, even top tier ones with 10-15k hours in this game. We've had many "I play 50-50" people in this forum. Watch them long enough and you'll see their pattern of always defending one side over the other. How you view the two different roles and how they should be approached is going to be different because they are different, even if you don't have a preference. The devs tried to put anti-cheese through and instead of having a backbone, they caved to outcry. That is listening to loud people.
The only way it's possible to be as close to unbiased in this game as possible is to not play it or listen to the whining, but to look at it as a series of data.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060580#Comment_4060580
When whole team or atleast half of the team does it that its bully squad at that point.
THe bully squad cares for dennying hooks and saving others primary before gens (maybe one guy is on them but mostly they go after saves with sabbo or flashlights or flashbangs, crackers.
The part where you dont think sabboing isnt part of bully squads is based on your vibes which is nice for you but realisticaly not correct because sabbo is used in dennying hooks and with some perks buffs which helf survivors to denny hooks even more with sabbo build this strategy can be combined with some bodyblock even more harder to counter and deal with than flashlights or flashbangs especialy if these survivor know how to loop and rest hold m1.
Bullying requires intent. Unless that group is getting together with the purpose of bullying, and not just playing forcefully to win, then it's not bullying. Maybe some people are so bad they think everyone who's aggressive is bullying them but I haven't felt helpless in this game since I was new. You can't bully someone who's more powerful than you.
Works both ways here like you just now showing it.
No, it doesn't. I'm not the one making the ridiculous accusations. Only mods can delete comments, and all my comments are visible on my profile. And as if I care enough about this rage baiting burner account to tag them in the first place.
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060644#Comment_4060644
You're wack or something it's in my notifications but ok bro.
You can't delete your own comments, but your proof is just one screenshot away.
Cool story bro, again. Yeah, the killers on this forum that treat it like their personal blog to cry and blame the game for every bad match definitely aren't emotional or childish.