cogsturning
cogsturning
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060625#Comment_4060625
U keep tagging me in things lol. I'm not even on everyday cause I'm busy. I Just keep seeing you tagging me in things n deleting comments when I log on.
Yeah that defintely didn't happen, who ever you are.
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Then tag me. You're being awfully familar with me for someone whose account is two seconds old.
You're question is too vague. It depends on the situation. Sabos are part of the game. If you fly into a rage because of one convenience sabo or flashlight save and slug everyone then you're acting like a child; if you identify full builds and coordination then aggressive plays logically result in aggressive reactions. But I get a lot of these sort of players (except with perks and prestige and high hours) and they never win against me, and I dont have to full-team slug to manage it. But I also run builds that focus on countering hook denials.
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
my best firend we meet again if you read what they say I presume they be meaning the collective of the team but,I agree with you tho that that bully squad was not rlly one they had green perks and low prestige and one dude was perkless. I got a question 4 u tho, would you say its ok for the killer to slug early if a swf for 4 is sabboing hooks?
Who are you talking to?
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060559#Comment_4060559
Its pretty easy to tell especially when your a person who plays both killer and survivor and pretty good at the game.
I dont have one biased opinion that me and the devs share 😂, i just appreciate the fact they can tell when people are just wrong no matter if its a popular take in a thread or not. Alot of dev teams fall victim to this and it ruins games.
Everyone has a biased opinon, even if you play both roles. And this company has repeatedly listened to loud outcries from streamers who make money off the game (read: biased) and randoms screeching anonymously on the internet. Even the forum is filled with people making daily posts about how it's the game or their opponenets fault that they did badly, never themeslves. The opinions of people incapable of personal responsibility are of little value, and using them is not impressive—it's spineless.
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@Brimstoneslinger said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059675#Comment_4059675
I dunno, arent tbagers the one who should be embarrassed in this equation? not like he was mad as you portray him to be nor problem itself is unfixable- killer abandon or mini blood warden wont hurt gameplay while shutting off tbaging on gates for good
If something so goofy and immature tilts you hard enough that you feel the need to not just make a post about it, but also want the game changed, then I'm going to assume you're mad. Just calling it a problem, as your doing, is noteworthy. Regulate your emotions and be the adult by not responding to BMing in turn.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060544#Comment_4060544
Sabboing is the tool for bully squads to denny hooks further when the flashlight or flash bang arent enough and sabbo teams are sometimes even more harder to deal with than flashlight teams, every team that mainly focuses on dennying killers hooks by saves of any type is bully squad.
They can be even hard to deal with on experienced level if they are swf and the team is made from good loopers (players in general) that they can even give experienced killer a hard time.
Sinking mmr isnt that fast and bully squads exist on all mmrs most in the middle where majority of these teams are p100 teams to intimidate killers.
You're telling me every survivor that doesn't passively run away from the killer in terror and instead plays in an aggressive manner—while also being skilled—is a bully?
What are you even basing this majority statement on? Vibes?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060494#Comment_4060494
No need to deffend bully squads they know what are they doing, play dirty and expect your opponent to be nice is totaly out of mind.
They went in with sabbo and flashlight planning to bully the killer and he predicted it and equiped lightborn and sluged to counter theirs gear, you how i call it
Saboing doesn't make you a bully. A true bully squad is intentionally sinking MMR to harass newer players. You dont know they're bullying unless you see the match. They aren't even an issue for experienced players.
Abd no one in their right mind would try to bully with zero perks, or green perks.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4060451#Comment_4060451
Because one was a streamer he checked the stream and heard them bad mouth him as he said. Thats not tracking them down that is quite normal I do that all the time because I like to see their viewpoint of the match as its interesting. Still them having TTV in the name is them wanting to people to check their stream so OP did nothing that they already wanted people to do.
He didn't say that. He said he blocked the name so no one gets harassed, in relation to the TTVer (even though those are just the forum rules anyway.)
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There's an add-on that gives you an aiming reticle, I think? Might help a bit, though I still have no intention to stress myself out trying to use him on controller when I could just play someone else. The reticle honestly should be an overall option in the settings anyway. So many TVs and monitors have it now that you're just keeping certain players down.
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But why do you care so much if they see it?
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You don't think it's kind of embarrassing to be this publicly mad about tbagging?
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It's been happening to me a ton for a maybe a couple months now.
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I hope they do add the option to disable. I live in fear that all my survivors are going to get voice lines (and new pain sounds/screams) and they're gonna be awful.
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I enjoy playing against Springtrap. The only thing I don't like about him is when the doors spawn right on top of the generators (meanwhile my guy Dredge has multiple generators with no lockers in sight.) Krasue I don't like playing against at all, but luckily I've probably had 20 total matches against her. I do really enjoy her music and visual design though. Henry is a beast with good players but I haven't seen much of him lately, but I'm also playing 2v8.
I didn't buy Springtrap because he doesn't really appeal to me, and Krasue was so hated I haven't even unlocked her. She doesn't look fun either. Henry, on the the hand, is healing me. I suck with him but I find him so fun. It's the most unstressed I've been about performing well in awhile. The vine hits and World Breaker activation are so satisfying. I love the voice acting on the Rift skin too.
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Sad times.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059148#Comment_4059148
I get the cosmetics part for the licensed characters being hard to get allowance for, but is it possible that we might at least get something like an animated banner, at least for reaching P100. It is a big time-investment after all
This would be fantastic
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BHVR doesn't help as much as they should. True. But what can you even do with a decrepit cesspit that the DbD community is?
They could have a backbone? They're the ones in control. Just because you're players are a bunch of whiny babies doesn't mean you have to bend to them. Push things through and adjust accordingly. Stop listening to everyone who loudly proclaims they'll quit over every little thing even though they won't. Because for everyone of these, there's 10 more quitting silently because they've had actually enough.
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@Nazzzak said:
Oh yes, I sometimes find myself yelling at the screen "just do the gen! I'll take the hit if he comes, just do the darn gen!" 😅 it's also why Empathy is always in my build, alot of people are too scared to do anything while injured.
Empathy is my personal meta perk. So useful.
@topic as others have said: doing the wrong gens and not doing the last one. Also, dragging the killer to my gen because I'm a Guide. I've learned to put my blastmine on an adjacent gen so they go to that one.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058436#Comment_4058436
Its both internal and external to the game. The failed health initiatives were basically proof these things will never change, and despite my attempts at neutrality in my arguments, there's still plenty within the game that still frustrates me personally and been made worse by the methods to their approaches. I've been playing less and less over time, so I just don't really feel the need to until a course correction occurs.
I can understand that. Many of us have been terribly let down by how last year played out.
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@CatFish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058419#Comment_4058419
Playing with friends and using programs that give you an advantage are not the same thing
If the survivors played without voice communication, it would be balanced, but since they are so sweaty that they need to get any advantage at all costs, they go beyond the line of "just playing with friends."Some people are just chatting with friends while playing. Fun is a thing, believe it or not.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058373#Comment_4058373
The biggest sticking point could be that BHVR themselves stated at one point that they didn't want to go the route of changing things like gen speeds or number of pallets on a per killer basis. That was years ago, so maybe they've changed their mind or would consider revisiting it, but it's also been rare for them to outright say no.Thats because those things revolve around concepts like map resources, which is part of why I avoided them in my examples. I'm more focused on the concepts of how to address the issues rather than the specifics, teaching a man to fish rather than giving him one. If approaches and concepts can be agreed upon by people who normally disagree, it opens avenues for refinement from opposing viewpoints. Thats why getting caught up on details or looking for ways to disqualify ideas with opposition to specifics prevents actually reaching reasonable solutions.
I disagree. I have no problem with the idea that people believe the root causes are different, and I also believe that a much smaller part is that they are intertwined problems.Its why we have so much back and forth, why everything needs to be tit for tat and compensation is always the primary source of complaint. Being too zoomed in is foundational to whataboutism, as many of the issues with the game have always been dependent on opposing ones. If an unhealthy mechanic is an answer to another unhealthy mechanic, removing one and ignoring the other creates a vacuum that has disproportionate affect on one side vs the other. Even if you do these in "stages" and go back and forth, you create avenues for new issues to pop up in their stead, especially as behaviors adapt to that vacuum. Its the foundation of "removing x leads to y" arguments which both sides have validly applied to situations ranging from character and perk choices to item and addon proliferation. It doesn't fix metas, it just keeps shifting them based on whichever side is getting preferential treatment at the time.
Gen speeds are almost trivial easy to address. Add extra gen time, base kit corrupt, pain res on every hook, increased base regression, just to name a few. These aren't difficult answers.They are difficult answers, because they give disproportionate value when done in blanket approaches, as we saw before. Part of why DBD tiers are the way they are is because the best killers "Play DBD" better than the lower tiers, so these types of adjustments will almost always favor the strongest killers more than the weakest, furthering the divide and removing reason to play anything other than the top. Its the type of reasoning that led to backpack builds on nurse, necessitating her blink attack to be changed to special just to stop perk synergy after the fact.
The reason for the nuance is to have the mechanic focus on softening weaknesses in macro play while minimizing oppression in the ones that need it least, for them you would want to focus on aspects that would give them unique considerations instead of efficiency focused adjustments. That way their punishment would be more proportionate than their reward, as they need the help less and would require the strongest deterrent from ignoring the adjustments altogether. The reason I chose to try to salvage the minimum hooks before kill idea is because its not inherently flawed in addressing getting one out before reaping the benefits elsewhere, the threshold was just way too high at 6 hooks since that could literally be 3 survivors on death hook before reaching it. Preventing the tunneling of one out is just as important as the rest to the formula.
Unfortunately, this is where you stop discussion again. Right when we get to the hard part:I'm engaging in your discussion because you're actually having one, me being out is more in regards to the fact that even while we're having this conversation, you're continuing to use loaded statements even when I'm trying to work with you from the same side. I don't appreciate catching strays when I'm essentially mediating. I was trying to illustrate that comments like that are why I'm sick of this projection nonsense, and another poster did a great job of giving another example in between our conversation.
Then what would you change about, let's say the tunneling PTB in particular that would be acceptable?The changes I suggested, as they were based on salvaging the ideas they tried to present. i agree that they weren't a perfect solution, and the reason the "loudest voices" said what they did was because they felt ignored and/or under considered in how the system was proposed. Even when they did a panic round 2 adjustment and changed the fresh hook considerations, they half assed it in a way that made it do absolutely nothing for a large portion of the roster who actually neeeded it with the bloodlust clause. My point continues to be that if you design these mechanics in ways that "the reasonable voices" would be able to overpower "the loudest ones," you come up with systems that can actually be agreed upon and embraced. You don't focus on the people who accept nothing regardless of side, you focus on the ones who are willing to compromise and collaborate. Its a foundational aspect of mediation to acknowledge that there will always be people on both sides of an argument who will refuse to cooperate, so you focus on the considerations of the ones who will and arriving at a solution that is satisfactory to both sides to the best of your ability. Anything less devolves into favoritism and further destabilization, which is why I refer to it as Jenga style balancing.
And currently in this conversation, you again try to bow out the instant it gets to the tricky part of solving the difficult part of the issue. This isn't a "fix gen speed and well deal with tunneling later", we've been doing that for almost 4 years now.You misunderstand why I'm leaving. Its not the conversation I'm leaving, as this is the most engagement I've actually gotten on finding solutions like this than I've gotten in most of the attempts I've given when trying to stop people from preventing themselves from being able to agree across the isle. I'm leaving the game entirely because I'm sick of even the most productive conversations still having loaded language and trying to wedge in biased perspectives, regardless of whether intentional or not, because BHVR continuously prioritizing that type of linear thinking having wasted a massive amount of time and manpower that could have easily been effectively incorporated or at least salvaged if approached from a more unbiased perspective. I honestly don't think people are able to separate their personal feelings from their perspectives on what is actually best for the game anymore, internally or externally, and I'm tired of ice skating up hill about it. I'm going to ignore the way some of the individual statements are worded on the premise you misunderstood what I meant by leaving, because again, I'll take this type of actual engagement vs having to defensively repeat myself every single topic against a myriad of projections and strawmen, but this isn't the type of engagement that the forums do anymore. We obviously agree on a lot of things, which is what happens when things are actually discussed instead of going into one sided attacks against unproposed ideas or stances like most of the responses have been.
I'm leaving the game entirely because I'm sick of even the most productive conversations still having loaded language and trying to wedge in biased perspectives, regardless of whether intentional or not, because BHVR continuously prioritizing that type of linear thinking having wasted a massive amount of time and manpower that could have easily been effectively incorporated or at least salvaged if approached from a more unbiased perspective
So you're leaving the game because of the community and how BHVR reacts to it? But do you still enjoy the game? Why not just leave the community? Log out of the forum, close the chat, unfollow who ever you might watch videos from and whatever social media groups, and just read the patch notes when they go to live and roll with it. Even if you think that won't help, it very well might, because just this forum alone has badly damaged my view of the game (though not to the point of quitting.) Checking out from this world and just taking the game as is might be better for you if you're at this point.
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If the argument is "I tunnel because of gen speeds" and you want nerfs to gen times, perks, or toolboxes, then you also would have to be okay with something like the anti-tunnel from the ptb rolling out to live. Because, so far, the honor system just doesn't seem to be working. Killers get something and they keep complaining for more, and the cheese countinues. As it is, I see much more hard tunneling in my survivor matches than I see gen builds in my killer ones.
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In skilled hands, he's probably an A. There are Henrys that barely ever miss and they've got Worldbreaker active pretty much constantly.
In my hands? A C, yeah. But he's fun so whatever.
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They're mashing their faces right into mine to dodge the M2 and you want me to not be able to hit them??
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058295#Comment_4058295
Thats fair enough, your numbers dont reflect what others experience. However you also say you dont use comms like a swat team which i believe was the initial point to this thread. It wasnt about SWF teams, it wasnt about comms in general. The wording used was something along the lines of SWF if coordinated with comms and using comms in this manner, can destroy killers. You admit you do not use comms in this manner. How many people do or dont cant be proven, we know some do because we have seen videos of people doing it, they admit it on these forums and they can be seen doing it via watching a ttv player thats streaming. Your experience my differ, maybe you havent seen videos of comms being used in this way or havnt witnessed it yourself, i dont know. But others have.
im not saying your experiences are invalid but they are not really an accurate reflection of what SWF teams with comms are capable of or how comms are used when talking about coordinated teams when you do not use comms in this way. It is very much possible that people can play with their friends and win every match and find it ez….because they could be doing something that you do not.
This is the sort of stuff OP is saying:
if the game had inbulit comms instead of SWFs useing discord like we all do, the game can actually be blanced not for solo q, that is just trash and into SWFs which is co-oridnated and can destroy killers easily
Rewritten for coherence: The game could be balanced better if VC was global.
I have a 75% escape rate as survivor with my Lara and 500 hours on her I only play SWFS compared to ur 40% escape rate it rlly shows the power of a SWF and having good teamamtes.
Oh wait, AND you need good teammates.
So soloq, by this logic, wouldn't benefit from comms, because there would still be bad players playing badly, just with the ability to speak. Random strangers have no synergy with you. They have no attachment. This will fix nothing. Good players will play well if they're solo or not. Bad players will play bad regardless of comms. Comms do not fix this game's problems.
Thats fair enough, your numbers dont reflect what others experience.
It's impossible to say what other people's numbers reflect as long as the stats are innaccruate. We are using rigged data to argue a point, which makes the entire argument skewed and the problems inscrutable. My numbers being abnormally accurate makes it look like I'm underperforming, but it's quite likely that if we all woke up to adjusted numbers tomorrow, everyone would loose 10% or more of their ERs, considering the frequency with which people abandon the second they hit the ground.
How many people do or dont cant be proven, we know some do because we have seen videos of people doing it, they admit it on these forums and they can be seen doing it via watching a ttv player thats streaming. Your experience my differ, maybe you havent seen videos of comms being used in this way or havnt witnessed it yourself, i dont know. But others have
I've said it before, but the forum isn't a good example of average player experiences. I take everything I hear here with a grain of salt. The most normal, mid to bad players I play with don't engage with the game in any way outside of playing it. The fact that we've all bothered to join a forum to talk about this game's tiny details endlessy makes us unusual. So I don't view the forum members as good examples of anything except an exceptional drive to complain. TTVers are also a terrible example of normality. They're performing for an audience. I would never, ever upload a video with a recording of me playing with people while we bs. That's not public content. Some people are great players AND use comms efficiently but they are outliers. Official survivor stats remain at underwhelming numbers even amongst high MMR SWFs.
It is very much possible that people can play with their friends and win every match and find it ez….because they could be doing something that you do not.
No survivor team is winning every match unless they're low MMR, and those wins would take them out of it quick enough, unless matchmaking can be manipulated in some way I dont know about. There are killers with 85%+ KRs just in this forum. They are statistically winning every match. Even the most impressive survivors in the world have streaks that pale in comparison to killer streaks.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058288#Comment_4058288
Is it a win if others run out leaving the remaining player to get the hatch? i have never seen anything stating this, only seen things saying "hatch escapes are neutral MMR, a draw".
its actually quite rare i abandon because i go for hatch over the abandon option, but im saying if i NEVER abandon not even once or twice like i do now.
it not a gotcha moment im genuinely trying to understand your view on stats and wins/loss because one min your saying hatch is not a win, but now saying it is a win in certain situations. Escape rate is not a win rate but you have used it to show killers winning. You abandon to get accurate stats but still get the hatch and you consider your stats accurate. So i was curious if i did the same thing, never abandoned and only escaped via gate or hatch or died over a 30 day perioid…then my stats would be just as accurate as yours. correct?
Yes they would be just as accurate as mine (for that 30 day period). Again, it says escape rate. It would be accurate to that word. And I also said my deaths are usually also team losses. The hatch is rare for me. Not only do I not know its spawn points without a shack offering (since I rarely think about it and haven't bothered to learn them) but I'm rarely the last person left alive. And slugging for the 4k is pretty common in my matches too. I'd be curious to see my number of hatch escapes as it's likely rather low.
I use the escape rate because 1) it's all they provide us and 2) the set-up here was that 4mans stomp killers, which would imply my ER should be higher because if we're stomping that much, I would be escaping a lot. You have all these people in this forum saying "played with my buddies and we won every match SWF is ez mode" and I'm saying the only numbers BHVR gives me to do not reflect that.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058272#Comment_4058272
So for the sake of accuracy, if people are choosing to not abandon in an attempt to keep their stats accurate then they should be choosing to not escape via hatch either as its not a win. Like i said, abandons inflate escape rate by not declaring it a loss, hatch also does this by declaring the match "escaped" when they didnt win. Are you not only never abandoning but also never getting the hatch either?
Curious what my stats would be if i actively went out of my way to not abandon for a month and aimed for hatch all month…. if i get high escape rate then i could say "i dont abandon and here are the matches that show escaped to prove it".
Your reasoning is flawed. Hatch = loss is not entirely true. Sometimes a team runs out so they're isolated/injured teammate can get hatch. That match was a win. If I were to die on purpose in every match I was the last one left in, that would only give me an accurate winrate if I live in every match we win, and I can't control being the one death. The only way to know your winrate is to keep your own data.
It's also called an escape rate, not a winrate or an MMR-gain rate. I've made it clear I want the two things separated in the stats. But the hatch is still part of the gameplay. It still requires in-game action. The abandon is leaving during a match almost always when you yourself died in that match. The way abandons operate is either an oversight or a very bad idea. The two things aren't the same.
No one is stopping you from doing this? But if you have to make a point of it that tells me you're abandoning quite a bit.
I knew you were setting up a gotcha but this is a really odd one.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058258#Comment_4058258
im asking you because you used your 41% escape rate and claimed it was accurate as you dont abandon. This suggests that gate escapes and hatch escapes show an accurate reading of escape rate. If people are going to use escape rates as a means to show how much they win/lose then it should be clarified or people could come back with "your stats are invalid as they are skewed by hatch escapes" much like people say now regarding abandons.
For example, i could escape via hatch 10/10 matches, my escape rate would be 100%, however being as hatch is not a win in the eyes of MMR then its possible to have lost the match and have 100% escape rate. It seems very similar to lose the match and then abandoning to maintain the 100% escape rate which as we all know throws off the stats.
I'm still not sure what this is relevant too, or why my specific viewpoint on the matter is needed. I'm not the authority. Ask a dev if you want a definitive answer. Hatch escapes show as escapes on the scoreboard and the stats; abandons show as deaths yet throw out the match on the tracker. Nullifying a whole match that you died in is obviously not accurate. People can comeback with whatever they want but you can't even see the difference between hatch and gates on the page. If they separated gates and hatch into two groups, might be a different argument. Would also probably change if MMR became visible and you showed an inflated escape rate and a low MMR score, because it'd be obvious you're hatch-smurfing against baby killers, which would make basically no one take your views seriously. But those things being visible aren't likely to happen. Currently you'd have to advertise your hatch ratting for people to even know.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058191#Comment_4058191
So someone that gets the hatch and does not abandon would have accurate stats? Someone that gets the hatch 10/10 matches and has escaped rate of 100% is accurate stats?
I'm not sure why you're asking me as though I'm the statmaster, but as far as I know, hatches are escapes—even if they're null in the system and neutral in MMR—in the most literal sense of the word, because you are jumping down a hole and, thus, escaping. A win, I would say no (as would Peanits, it would seem) but an escape, yes. What is your point?
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I don't mind that they exist and i get people like them but I do mind what they do to the 1v4 queue. The choices are play 2v8, which I don't love, or play 1v4 with the sweatiest people. I end up just playing 2v8 survivor for brainless BP accumulating but I'm always desperate for it to end. Asking for something new is a lot at this point. Reassessing Light Out would be nice, but it's unlikely.
We do get new stuff in 2v8 though.
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@CatFish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058207#Comment_4058207
I didn't say ban SWF. You can still play with friends, but only in ranked mode
So if the killer wants to play against swf, he will go to the ranked mode, and if not, to casual
Or if u as solo survivor dont want meet sandbag swf u can go in casualAnd even logical fact that you are using a third-party application to gain an in-game advantage already takes you out of the casual category
That would stop so many average-playing SWFers who just want to have a laugh with friends from playing the game at all. You shouldn't have to deal with the sweatiest players on earth just because you're with friends. I would mostly if not completely abandon survivor if that occured. As it is, this game is only bearable to many because of SWF. Not because of advantages, but because it's a good time. If it becomes a bad time, every time, they'll leave.
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Why do you need them to stick around and see the mori?
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@CatFish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058144#Comment_4058144
Just SWF/no SWF. SWF is the most powerful force the game has ever seen. If you want 30+ free perks obtained using third-party software, bypassing the rules of the game, fine, no problem, but only in ranked mode, where every killer will sweat If you want a more balanced approach, play casual solo mode
This way, killers who don't want to sweat won't encounter swf, and swf will get opponents equal to themselves in ranked mode
It's very simpleBHVR making their game anti-friends when it's the only thing keeping a lot of casual and average players engaged would be an idiotic move.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058167#Comment_4058167
You inexperience is anicdotal just like my experience is.
Just because I said I abandoned before doesn't mean I abandon now does it? Just like you not using comms before doesn't mean you don't use them now. Things change. Therefore if your basis for accurate stats via the stats tracker is simply don't abandon...then me not abandoning, escaping via gates or hatch would show accurate stats, correct? They would show escapes v deaths.
The abandons don't just recalculate as deaths at some future point. Any one who abandons has inaccurate stats until (or if) the tracker is fixed.
You also said it like a week ago.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058081#Comment_4058081
Well you did say it, im right that it's an assumption that can't be proven. It's an opinion, nothing more. Your entitled to that opinion. An opinion based on your own experience at the time. Now the issue comes if you try to prove this is not an assumption and use this as evidence to show this is the case for everyone. That's when I'm likely to disprove and discredit it as evidence, because it's simply not proven and can't be proven.
Besides, not everything is black and white right? It is possible to lie about something but tell the truth about something else. you did say this comment when you also said that you don't always use comms. Does that mean that's the case now? Of course not, now your saying you have not used no comms in a while. Just because now you decide to use comms when you didn't so much before does not erase what you said.
An experience is not an opinon. Not being on comms is my experience. You can choose whether or not to believe me but it isn't an opinon.
Survivor stats are not accurate unless you never abandon? So someone that rarely abandons or never abandons and gets the hatch would have reasonably accurate stats?
You're well aware abandons delete losses. You've mentioned it multiple times, as well as being present in the threads we've spoken about it. No one is talking about your precious hatch. You said you use the abandon when no other option is available therefore your stats are innaccruate. You don't care about BHVRs accurate official stats; I don't care about your innacurate ones.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058066#Comment_4058066
majority of SWF use comms? you have figures to show this being as you like to provide evidence? Cogsy has said himself "not all SWF use comms". So if not all SWF use comms then how many dont? We dont know do we, so why would count all people in the stats when they dont use comms? if say 50% use comms, thats half that dont and as such could likely be dying more thus lowering the escape rate for ALL SWF.
These figures you present as evidence is entirely speculative and based on assumptions that ALL or MOST SWF use comms…. You might throw around stats with assumptions and claim they are fact but thats not actual evidence no matter how much you try to claim it is.
Cogsy has said himself "not all SWF use comms".
Ah and there it is, you using something you like that someone else said because it suits your argument in the moment. Can't go a few posts without it doing, huh? I'm a liar until my words are useful.
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058052#Comment_4058052
I mean i can show you my survivor stats if you want. I'm just making fun of you because it's funny, you're so disconnected from every other aspect of the game, you forgot about everyone else's fun apart from yours as well. No nuance in what you say.
Survivor stats aren't accurate unless you never abandon. That's well known. The only reason I even mention mine is because I don't abandon. I dont trust a single person's survivor stats but my own.
Disconnected from what? False narratives? I play SWF, solo, and killer. You said you only SWF as survivor, so I'm playing a lot more of the game than you are. Who's more disconnected?
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058046#Comment_4058046
one day you will stop getting stomped by trappers and pigs
Talking trash about me in my face and expecting me to engage with you in any meaningful way is certainly something.
I play killer just about every day. I have 120 killer matches for the month, which is low for me because of 2v8, but is still probably higher than many forum members. Dredge is my second most played killer and is an M1, so don't tell people what I do and do not play, random stranger. You're claiming reductionism while making blanket statements about comms that just aren't true to the whole picture of party dynamics, and on which there is zero data, only vibes.
Periods are free now btw. So is spell check.
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058028#Comment_4058028
ngl im 50/50 survivor and killer, i play survivor only in SWFs we rarely get stomped lmao its too free 4 us, maybe its because we are better than you or because we just bring the meta perks but we dont lose that often unless they are useing high moblity or a actually good at thier killer, in solo q when I used to play it was a nightmare, most survivors dont know basic fundalmental of the game lets be honest it shocks me how many survivors grinded to p100 but cant loop shack correctly. maybe we live in differnt worlds of the game im alot more competitve and wanna win maybe you just play for fun but TBH if you are actually like actually good at the game with ur boys as your teammates unless you got quitekills in your lobby or the killer is tryna tunnel a teammate out fast, you should win I have a 75% escape rate as survivor with my Lara and 500 hours on her I only play SWFS compared to ur 40% escape rate it rlly shows the power of a SWF and having good teamamtes.
Cool story bro
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058024#Comment_4058024
If there is no way to prove it thats fine, but dont throw out stats that hold no baring at all and say "well i shown somthing" now your turn to prove yourself".
Yes we do know who is in SWF with comms when survivors have the equivalent of wall hacks to know the stealth killer is coming. or when names are identical. When all 4 survivors have names of well known fastfood places it doesnt take a genius to work out they are in SWF. People on ttv….just a click away from witnessing the comms first hand. Your using this "cant prove it" thing to dismiss blatant cases that are obvious while trying to prove these things dont happen.
i dont ask them where their proof is because i dont expect them to prove it. i didnt ask you to prove it….i simply debunked the evidence you provided….i didnt ask you to prove it tho. if they tried to prove it with meaningless evidence that dont hold up i would probably call them out on it too.
So you're saying people posting actual BHVR data and personal match histories holds less water than saying "maybe they're doing a totem challenge"? You say a whole lot of nonsense to support playing in a gross manner and never back it up with anything and everyone is just supposed to swallow it?
And what about the parties I play in, on three different platforms, no matching names, no matching characters? When we get stomped, the killer assumes we're soloqers, or they just don't care, because it's only a problem when you loose. The wins that don't fit the narrative are quickly forgotten.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058013#Comment_4058013
i too have played with people on comms and have person experience…. you want me to show you a screen shot of an end result screen to show i was in SWF and using comms? It wouldnt show we are in SWF or that we used comms but hey thats the evidence we are willing to accept right?
You have not shown any data on your use of comms, thats my point. you have tried to and failed. Because you have failed to prove your point your now throwing the onus to me to prove myself….your failure to prove something doesnt mean i have to show proof. As it stands your views are you own, but they are not proven just as my views are not proven. Throwing pointless screenshots and saying "well i shown something" does not prove your point lol.
Could i post vague screen shots to mimic the type of evidence you provide? sure, would it be valid? probably not because they dont prove anything. in a way i am tempted to do that, throw a load of screen shots your way thats so vague with key details missing just as you have done just to see if you hold them in the same regard as your own. Would they be accurate? maybe, maybe not, would i invent a fictional scenario that matches the vague image shown or would it be the truth? you never know
There is no way to prove this, yet the consistent narrative is "4mans on comms easily wreck killers" despite there being zero proof of this because you don't know who is in a party or on comms. People loose and just assume, because it allows them to deflect responsibility for their losses to something they can state is unfair. So why aren't you asking all these people who say this unproveble thing about comms where their proof is? Because it's the version of the story that you like, that's why.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058014#Comment_4058014
just simply pointing out a flaw i have seen…. apparently anyone that dares question you or the validity of your sources is looking for a fight lol. Not the case at all but your free to believe it if you wish.
Yeah you constantly singling me out and responding to my comments all the time despite us having these same arguments over and over and breaking no new ground—while you also ignore people with the same views—is totally not looking for a pointless fight.
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@Xaerdy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058006#Comment_4058006
I can see your point. Sorry if I misrepresented you.
But what I meant is, many people hear approach the game differently. And @cogsturning most definitely is one of them. So you two will likely not find any common ground.
He's not looking for common ground. He just wants to fight.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057988#Comment_4057988
my original point still stands, your stats, your 41% escape rate and claiming you use comms in 4man SWF does not disprove the OP post of comms destroying killers. There are holes in your evidence. so you dont use comms like a swat team….good for you, you dont care about wins, great. That doesnt mean there are a lot of people that dont use comms like a swat team, that dont play to win. you can disagree but you cant do any more than that, certainly not by throwing out irrelevant data that misses key points such as the use of comms. do you have any thing else to add? any more stats that show nothing of the impact of comms?
I, at least, have played with people on comms and have perosnal experience. Until you can show me your data on the use of comms, you have zero argument.
Also, look up the word altruism, because you don't know what it means.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057957#Comment_4057957
you reuse what others have said on these forums many times claiming that when enough people say the same thing it adds validity to the argument. (the numbers of people that find tunneling an issue for example). But by your standards if you dont experience it then it never happens? you play in your own little SWF bubble and might not play like most SWF teams do. i have been in a duo, i have seen how others people play and they dont play like you. But lets disregard this because you were not there. Facts remain, people clearly have an issue with comms as they are voicing loud and clear in the forums, you can disagree based on your own experience but you cant disprove other peoples experience by throwing stats that are known to be wrong not worth anything. Then after your stats were logically debunked as they offer no evidence regarding comms you change to screenshots to try to prove your right and other people are wrong which also shows no relation to the use of comms.
This seems to be your go-to response to many issues people raise when it doesnt suit you….you try to disprove what people say or ask them to prove what they say when quite often proof cannot be provided which is exactly what im pointing out now. Every proof you have given has had holes and can be disputed, this is why almost every topic gets taken off course and the current thread is a perfect example of how it becomes a debate about stats, legitimacy, validity, proof instead of actually discussing what the OP has an issue with. If you dont agree, fair enough, but trying to disprove it with meaningless stats just isnt going to happen.
you reuse what others have said on these forums many times claiming that when enough people say the same thing it adds validity to the argument
One person saying "this specific, niche thing happened to me once" and you using and resuing it over and over because it happens to suit your preferred narrative is not the same as thousands of people saying the same general thing happened to them. Try to understand nuance.
But by your standards if you dont experience it then it never happens?
It's not about them happening or not, you just don't need to talk about things that aren't your experience like they are because you like how they sound. I, for example, have had very little to say about end game chat because I didn't have it until recently, so I took what people said with a grain of salt and didn't worry about it because it wasn't my experience. Now it is and I still haven't had much to say because I need a bigger sample size, but so far my experience is, unsurprisingly, not aligning with many complaints.
i have been in a duo, i have seen how others people play and they dont play like you
You've seen how other people play? With a low MMR new player? Yeah, I'm sure that gave you amazing perspective. You also have no idea when people you stomp are in parties. I play with people across all platforms. There's no way to know we're playing together. And again, I've had thousands of matches with dozens of people and many different dynamics and styles of players. You played in a duo once. This is like you saying "I visited France for a week so I know how it is there" while I say "I lived in France for 10 years" and you thinking you know more than me about life in France. It is wild to have this forceful of an opinon based mostly on assumption and other people's stories.
Then after your stats were logically debunked as they offer no evidence regarding comms you change to screenshots to try to prove your right and other people are wrong which also shows no relation to the use of comms.
There is no way to prove that, but I at least have more than you ever do, which is inflated stats and a video going against a baby Bubba.
you try to disprove what people say or ask them to prove what they say when quite often proof cannot be provided which is exactly what im pointing out now
I don't get into lengthy arguments wirh many people anymore. Most have been banned. I do it to you because you use ridiculous examples that happened once or didn't happen to you. You do this regularly. Any time you dont like the story, you try to "but how do I know you were on comms?" "What if someone was doing some nonsense challenge" "but did you throw on purpose?????"
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057896#Comment_4057896
the evidence shown only shows results. it does not show if they are even SWF. Could be soloq for all i know. duo? 4 man? who knows.
The evidence shown also does not show if comms were used which is what this thread is about…SWF that use comms. Showing matches where comms are not used doesnt prove that comms are not effective when they are used.
The evidence also does not show if these matches were played normally or specifically working towards a challenge such as hatch escape (which is a possibility as you have said about bringing a key and hiding it.) ofcourse if your doing challenges then your not going to be concentrating on wins.
I have played SWF as a duo with a new player and they escaped a lot more due to comms. "killer heading your way" that simple quick comment said between having a laugh and joking around still enabled them to pre run avoiding the need to loop (which they couldnt do).
Yeah the repeat characters in the same spots during the same time frame are just coincidences. Logical.
I post a lot of screenshots. I provide the evidence I have. You do nothing but tell anecdotal tales, often about things other people did or said or might be doing. It's cute that you're trying to discard all my evidence while providing none of your own in a discussion about something you mostly know about in theory and I know in practice.
Idk who these baby players you're playing with who are still doing these tome challenges and also have no idea how to play at the same time but that's not happening in my matches. 4mans don't throw so someone can cleanse totems. Were bringing the key and a hatch offering solely in hopes that one person can get out of the match because the matches are awful. Even then, we often get no one out because the killer slugs for the 4k. We used the key once in these matches. And it was me, and I wasn't doing any stupid challenge.
Yeah I've heard you're story of playing in low MMR with one guy once. Amazing. I've played with dozens of people over thousands of matches. The results remain about the same as soloing, the company of friends just makes the endless loses more bearable. But you're the expert on this thing you've basically never done.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057871#Comment_4057871
i already explained why you might be inclined to die…to take one for the team so you get your "win" if your under the impression that 1 man dying and 3 out is a win. Makes perfect sense and a logical thing to do. If you thought dying was a loss then it make no sense to die for your team but you clearly view it as a win.
Im just saying a counter point to your argument and suggesting a possible explanation for the low escape rate which you cant deny is a possibility. Theoretically a weaker player can be in an SWF team and die alot, they might not be bothered by dying because they see it as a win when 3 others escape….but escape rates dont take into account "team escapes" they take into account the individual so claiming you have a low escape rate to suggest SWF teams dont win often can be disputed. Unless your saying dying is a loss for you even if your team escapes? then it makes no sense to sacrifice yourself for the good of the team. But while you view it as win to die while others escape you have given valid reason to not only die for the team (reducing your escape rate) but also to be perfectly happy with doing so (because you feel you won).
You keep talking about me being the only one who is dying and I'm telling you that's not what's happening. No one is talking about win conditions or anything. So since you're accusing me of lying, here are the 6 deaths of my lasy 9 4man sessions:
Four people on comms and pretty much all full team wipes accept one draw.
I love how it's the people who soloq who are experts on what happens in every and all SWFs. The boogeyman isnt real but it hurts the narrative, so it must continue.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057708#Comment_4057708
So we are to take your word on that? You might trade and so might your team but you also might not. It's possible your telling the truth, it's possible your lying or even mistaken just how much you actually throw yourself under the bus for the sake of the team. I'm simply saying you giving a low escape rate doesn't prove your point any more than me showing an escape rate of over 70% and me saying "I never abandon, I always escape via the gate".
It's good that you offer some sort of "evidence" to back your claim but without solid proof there is always room for error and I have merely pointed out a flaw in your argument while pointing out a flaw in your evidence.
Though I'm quite sure many people lie about their matches, or at least exaggerate, if we go down that road then there's zero point in any conversations that happens here. I could post the details of my most recent 4mans that show most matches having one or zero escapes but that would make this thread very long. If I'd clipped it, I could post the recent match where I had to use a key that we've been bringing in and hiding, along with a hatch offering, so one of us can get out because that's how bad the situation is for the dreaded 4man.
It's wild to say that I'm just dying on purpose every match and for...reasons? I like dying? I'm a masochist? I want to throw off my stats even though I intentionally don't abandon so they're accurate? Idk.
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You wanna give killers 5 perks through offerings?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057700#Comment_4057700
Just because a killer played out a match doesn't mean they enjoyed it and doesn't negate the killer not liking the end game tbags. This is where your lack of empathy shows. It's not just the previous match, it's almost every single match, it's like the dome thing that the vast majority of players do. It's not lashing out, it's playing the game in a way that they don't have to deal with the bit they don't like.
Morals have no place in a video game where people literally kill other people. Morals are highly subjective, which is why inventing your own rules based on your own morals does not mean anyone not doing so isnt playing the game properly. Different people have different morals based on many things such as culture... Your abide by your morals if you want but you can't say people that don't play your way are not playing properly.
You can't proudly proclaim you have no empathy then lecture people on empathy. Saying it's the majority isn't fair. That's an assumption. And even the ones that do might not take it as seriously as you. Not everyone loses their cool over a game.
It's not just a matter of morals. Even taking tunneling as a strategy, you're crutching on one thing instead of learning all the other things and keeping sharp with them. It's why tunnelng also fails, because hyperfocusing on one person while gens fly around you is braindead.
But you are again admitting it's not even about strategy for many, it's about petty tilt. So there's a divide between "I tunnel because I have too" and "I tunnel because I hate everyone" which makes it a form of punishment disguised as strategy.